Title: arch-shoots-msg
Subject: Various types of archery competitions.
Author: Edited by Mark S. Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: SCA, archery, tournaments, competition

arch-shoots-msg - 7/14/19

Different types of archery shoots.

NOTE: See also the files: archery-msg, arch-supplies-msg, c-archery-msg, archery-books-msg, T-Arch-Child-art, clout-shoot-FAQ, p-archery-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

From: graydon at micor.ocunix.on.ca (Graydon Saunders)
Date: 16 Nov 91 00:51:58 GMT
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.

Greetings unto the Rialto from Graydon who goes on and on...

Hal mentions the York Round, and implies that it's period.  Well - it
might be *more* period, but the York Round dates from the English Regency.
It consists of 6 dozen arrows fired at 100 yards, 4 dozen arrows fired at
80 yards, and 2 dozen arrows fired at 60 yards, for a total of 144 arrows.

It is important to remember that one of the chief advantages of the English
War Bow was *range*; Crecy was the occaision of a lot (maybe 15 000)
Burgundian crossbowmen finding out that they didn't have the range advantage
anymore...  Period practice would have been at full war ranges - we're 
talking 250 yard clout shoots; the Archers of Arden, an English Longbow
Society, still occaisionally shoot 12 score yard clouts.

<snip>

Graydon

From: 00mjstum at leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Matthew J. Stum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Critique of new archery shoot wanted.
Date: 29 Jun 93 19:45:33 GMT
Organization: Widget Enterprises

Greetings unto the Archers of the Rialto!

I am preparing our archery competition for our September 11th event
(blatant plug!) and I've come to this Bridge to seek opinions on a new
part I'm devising.   After the required synchronized-clout and other
shoots I wanted to have something the archers could do off and on all
day to gather points w/o being stuck shooting required shoots or
shooting at boring 5-ring targets.

Here's what I've come up with:

[to archers based upon what I've read in Toxophilus] "As we all know,
the shooting of the bow is a good and honourable sport and every man
[forgive the gender... it's meant to be neutral] should partake of it. 
But we also all know that some men partake of naughty and undesirable
activities such as dicing.  And so, in order to attract those mean and
naughty men to the sport of archery, today we shall use... dice!"

At that time sets of two large wooden dice are presented.  The 6 faces of
one are marked with an hourglass, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6.  The other die is
marked with a solid-colored circle, a "wand", and a human-shaped figure. (2
faces of each marking)

At 20 yards will be a wand target.  At 30 yards will be a circular target
roughly the size of a 3-point ring.  At 40 yards will be a man-sized target
recycled from the clout shoot.

The shoot will basically be a challenge shoot... a pair of archers
decide to face off against each other and they each throw one of the
dies.  The second die obviously determines which target they will be
shooting at. The first die determines how many arrows they will shoot. 
The winner gets as many points as the difference between their number
of hits.  i.e. If Erik Sapsplitter scores 3 hits and Bob Barnsideseeker
only scores 1 hit, Erik gets 2 points.  If the first die rolls an
hourglass, the two archers shoot a 30-second timed round using as many
arrows as they wish.

Hopefully this kind of shoot will allow a more relaxed line and others
that don't wish to participate can still have fun practicing at the
clout or even the competition targets themselves.  Or wander over to
the merchents or whatever.

Have I missed something fundamental that will make this a pain to run
or participate in?  Anyone have any suggestions or twists that they'd
like to see?  Oh, and feel free to give this a try in your own practices
or competitions and let me know how it turns out.

And if anyone is wondering, when the designated hour arrives, the top
25% of the archers continue to the final competition and their scores are
all dropped...  (and the final round is a nerve-breaker to be sure... :-)

Many thanx!
Gwydion

-- 
Matt Stum                    Gwydion ap Myrddin       Ball State University
00mjstum at bsuvc.bsu.edu       Shire of Afonlyn, MK     Muncie, IN  USA

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: salamon at brahms.udel.edu (Andrew Salamon)
Subject: Long range archery scoring
Keywords: Archery, long range 
Organization: Calafia/Caid
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1993 05:25:59 GMT

  Lord Bleyddyn ap Rhys, (soon to be) Captain of Archers for the Barony of 
Calafia, doth send greetings to one and all.

  The College of St. Artemas (thanks to UCSD) now has an archery range that 
goes out to 100 yards. Since I have long been interested in shooting at 
longer ranges than is standard in the SCA, I decided to start a new type of 
ongoing competition based on longer ranges.

  My first step was to follow up on a rumor I had heard about a group called 
the Long Rangers. The Long Rangers were a Drieburgen order and I will only 
present their method of scoring, but anyone who would like more information 
should contact the Drieburgen Captain of Archers. (Any error in the information
below is mine alone.)
  The Long Rangers shot two normal ends each at 20, 30, and 40 yards, plus two 
ends at 60 yards with any arrow on the bale counting 1/2 point and all 
scoring arrows counting double their normal value. If you shot over a certain 
score and maintained a certain average you were admitted to the order.

  Although this seems like a good scoring method, I wanted something that went 
out to longer ranges, and here is the result:
  Archers would shoot rounds of 3 ends of 6 arrows each, at each of three 
ranges (18 arrows total). I also would like to have the archers start at the 
longer ranges and work their way in. One practice end of up to 6 arrows is 
allowed before each for-score end. Scoring would be on standard 60cm targets 
with standard values, plus 1/2 point for each arrow outside the scoring rings 
but still on the butt. The butt should be approximately the size of four hay 
bales with the cut ends (non-string sides) facing the archer. This is 
approximately 12?? square feet. One of the round sisal cord butts could be 
used as well.
  Which ranges they would shoot at would depend on their current "Long Ranger" 
rank and what rank they were trying for. The ranks and their ranges are:

Apprentice Long Ranger	50, 60, 70 yds
Journeyman Long Ranger	60, 70, 80 yds
Master Long Ranger	70, 80, 90 yds
Grand-Master Long Ranger	80, 90, 100 yds

  In order to qualify for a rank an archer would need to have the average of 
his three best rounds at the appropriate ranges for any given year be at least 
15 points. Also, an archer must work his way up the ranks, i.e. even if you 
shoot for score and make Master Ranger, you don't hold that rank unless you 
were already a Journeyman etc. Also, each archer would have a permanent rank, 
which would be the highest rank that archer had ever achieved and a temporary 
rank, which would be whatever rank his current three highest scores entitle 
him to. An archer would have the option of using either rank during 
competitions.

  Any and all suggestions would be appreciated, especially if you have any 
better suggestions for the rank titles. Also, If you have access to a range 
and can record some scores, I would very much like to hear from you. Please 
send scores, and the name and standard rank of the archer to me at the address 
below (and a description of your ranking system if your not from Caid) .
  As a last note, none of this is set in stone, and for now none of this is 
official. I am working on this as a personal project, and when I think most of 
the bugs are worked out I may present it to my Baronial council and I will 
certainly let as many other archers know about it as possible.

Yours in Service
Bleyddyn ap Rhys
salamon at jeeves.ucsd.edu

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: kdz at sae.com (Douglas Zimmerman)
Subject: Re: Long range archery scoring
Keywords: Archery, long range 
Organization: Template Software
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1993 18:46:58 GMT

From Galen Woodwalker, Archery Marshal of the Barony of Storvik, Atlantia,
Greetings to All.

I fully approve of getting SCA archers out of the IKAC/Royal Round rut,
and getting them to shoot something resembling medieval archery.
I have long wanted to shoot competitions at distances over 40 yards,
but NAA-style archers with sights and stuff just clean my clock.
I encourage any efforts to introduce standard rounds at longer ranges.

But I have one major problem with your suggested rounds - the notion of
'on the butt'.  By not having a standardized target size, you cannot reliably
compare scores from different shoots.  I suggest that you go to a standard
122 cm (48") target face, and score it using English (9-7-5-3-1)
or FITA scoring (10-9-8-...).  Nobody shoots at 60cm targets at over 40 yards;
FITA, the NAA, and the English Grand National Archery Society all use
122cm faces.

If you have difficulties locating 122cm faces or targets, I can help.
I find that ethafoam works well, and comes in 4'x9' sheets, so you
can easily make a double-thickness 4' target out of it.  Faces can be obtained
from any number of places; call Lancaster Archery (717-394-7229) for a few,
or Maple Leaf Press (616-846-8844) if you want to order 100 faces (which may
be mixed sizes, e.g. 90 60cm and 10 122cm).  I am also getting info on
someone one makes cloth target faces, which last a long time.  Making
a target stand takes about $15 of materials and an evening with simple tools.

I also suggest that instead of making up some new short round of 54 arrows,
you use one of the standard English rounds, or even the American round.
The FAQ posted on Alt.archery gives all the standard rounds, ranging from 72
to 144 arrows.

Here is a quick summary of standard English rounds, taken from the
Alt.archery FAQ:

Outdoor - GNAS rounds (5 zone scoring)
only on 122cm face
                       100yd 80yd 60yd 50yd 40yd 30yd 20yd
York                  | 72   48   24
Hereford              |      72   48   24
Bristol 1             |      72   48   24
Bristol 2             |           72   48   24
Bristol 3             |                72   48   24
Bristol 4             |                     72   48   24
St. George            | 36   36   36
Albion                |      36   36   36
Windsor               |           36   36   36
Short Windsor         |                36   36   36
Junior Windsor        |                     36   36   36
New Western           | 48   48
Long Western          |      48   48
Western               |           48   48
Short Western         |                48   48
Junior Western        |                     48   48
Short Junior Western  |                          48   48
American              |           30   30   30
St. Nicholas          |                     48   36
New National          | 48   24
Long National         |      48   24
National              |           48   24
Short National        |                48   24
Junior National       |                     48   24
Short Junior National |                          48   24

One reason to introduce a new round would be if you added something
like timed rounds, which pretty much only the SCA shoots.  As an archery
teacher, I dislike speed rounds, as they tend to lead to bad form.
Especially at longer distances, form is critical, and I think having a
speed round in 'the' standard long-distance shoot would be counter-productive.

Another reason would be if you thought the xisting rounds were too long.
But if you do introduce a new round, please have it be at least 72 arrows,
say 24 arrows at each distance.  This is the length of an IKAC, which can
be shot in 2-3 hours.  Any less than this is hardly a real competition.

Back in the 19th century, most archery tournaments were York rounds.
They tended to take all day, and the scores were rather embarrassing.
For most of the 19th century, most archers didn't even *hit* the face
half the time.  Things improved by the early 20th century, and really
took of with the introduction of modern equipment, of course.
I would like to see the SCA eventually move up to shooting York rounds,
but I expect that is years off.  We need to work up to 100 yards,
but I see no reason why the SCA shouldn't be shooting at 60yd today.

As for the ranking system, I thought there were already ranking systems based
on Royal Rounds in most kingdoms.  A second system would get confusing.
And if I understand correctly, your ranks wouldn't be based on scores,
but only on shooting a minimal score in a given round.  I fail to see the
purpose in this; it encourages moving to longer ranges, but doesn't encourage
shooting better.  

I started a thread on archery rankings a bit ago, to understand how different
kingdoms do it, and what it has actually accomplished.  My opinion is that
the existing systems encourage skill at short ranges, while discouraging
even shooting at longer ones.  I think that this is far too limited and
far too easy.

I certainly wouldn't introduce a ranking system until the round has been
shot for a few years, to see how people score.  One of the troubles with the
existing RR rankings is they were established before there were any really
good archers, when an 80 RR seemed like a major accomplishment.  I would also
think hard about the purpose of rankings - is it just a carrot to get people
to shoot, or  just another award to add to a collection, or a way of
seperating archers into different divisions in a shoot, or is it really
a recognition of skill at archery?

What I would like to see, however, is something like the IKAC, but shot at
longer distances.  As far as I know, the IKAC has no official sanction;
its just Fitz-Rauf keeping score and handing out prizes all on his own.
But the fact that it was presented as a Society-wide competition,
and the scores are printed regularly in Kingdom newsletters, has made it
a standard.  I see no reason why the same thing cannot be done again.

I was planning to run such a competetion myself next year in Atlantia,
using something like the American round, shooting at 40-60 yd.  Until we
get a lot better down here, anything longer will have too few archers
able to hit anything.  Should it work out, I was thinking of trying to
take it society wide in a few years.  But I would be just as happy
if somebody else did it first.

In any case, good luck with your archery.

				Yours in Service,

				Galen
______________________________________________________________________
Douglas Zimmerman  kdz at template.com  uunet!template!kdz   703-318-1218
Template Software  13100 Worldgate Dr, Ste 340  Herndon, VA 22070-4382

From: vader at meryl.CSd.uu.SE
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Long range archery
Date: 7 Nov 1993 06:47:21 -0500

William de Corbie, archery captain of Nordmark, greets all.

I applaud the ideas about longer range archery. Here in Nordmark,
we are presently moving away from the Royal Round and 5-ringed
FITA targets. Neither the round or the targets are period, and
we would like to do something more authentic with our archery.

The best idea that has been presented so far, is a round with
no limit. We could start at 20 yards and shoot 6 arrows at a
white piece of paper, e.g. a standard A4 sheet that has been
folded square. Or perhaps a paper plate (the kind you eat off).
Anyone who hits the mark with at least one arrow goes on to
the next segment.
 
We then increase the distance by 10 yards, again and again.
Anyone who misses all 6 arrows is out. Distance is increased
until either only one archer hits the mark (who will then
be the winner), or until nobody hits it; in the latter case
the winner can be the archer with the highest number of hits
total (accumulated). This means that distance could go as
high as 100 yards or more, theoretically. I guess that in
most cases, the competition would be over at 50 or 60 yards,
given the present standard of our archers here.

I see little point in combining this with a speed shoot.
Considering the military longbow archery, it seems to me
that speed shooting was more important when showering the
approaching froggie knights with arrows; hence, I would
prefer to combine the above with a clout shoot at some
pretty large distance (60-100 yards if possible), which
would be the speed round.

Any comments?

William

From: Paul A. Byers (6/27/94)
To: Mark Harris
RE>Lilies VIII - Pavel's view
> 
> In article <C1EFC646BF at uasaturn.uark.edu> you write:
> >Lilies VIII  - Through Pavel's eyes
> >
> >    The next morning, Tues., after a breakfast of eggs with collard
> >greens, pancakes, sausage and bacon , I shot a lot of archery. His
> >Grace Lorell (Chubs) did a great job of having some very fun shoots.
> >The pop-n-jay was very fun. I even got one good hit on the critter.
> >Archery was more fun than it had been in a while.
> >
> What exactly was this pop-n-jay shoot? Sounds like it might be fun,
> but I'm not sure exactly what it was.

It was a foam turkey elevated on a pole about 25 foot. You shot at it 
with Fu-Fu arrows supplied by Lorrel. Was a hoot! Also had head to 
head 'kill the other guy' shoots that were fun.

Pavel

From: James Prescott (12/4/95)
To: Mark.S Harris
RE>3YC Archery Schedule (and other missile activites)

On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Mark.S Harris wrote:

> What's a "York round"?

I had to go and look it up myself.

There are several flavours. The original, early 1800's, was:

72 arrows at 100 yards
48 arrows at 80 yards
24 arrows at 60 yards

Since I've never shot it myself, I don't actually know which
version of the York round is normally shot in the SCA.

All my best,
Thorvald Grimsson/James Prescott (james at nucleus.com)

Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 17:30:06 +0000
From: ulvar at pipcom.com <ulvar at pipcom.com>
To: John Edgerton <sirjon at netcom.com>
Subject: Re: SCA archery (fwd)

> Our Canton just received permission to use a city park to use for archery
> practice.  We will be having weekly practices and monthly tournaments.  We 
> would like to know what other groups are doing for fun shoots.

Fun shoot!

HEHEHE!

We have a fun shoot up here in Petrea Thule (Peterborough Ont.,) that 
we call a Thulish Distilation. We have a variety of target on 6 
butts. We each get to shoot 6 arrows. The first person to shoot gets 
to call the 6 shoots of 1 arrow each. example 60cm on butt five for 
reverse score, Bulleye on target 2, closest to the bottom left corner 
on 3, etc.

After all archers have shot we tally the scores. Person with the 
highest score gets to call the next round. 

Lowest score gets to sit down once you go below 7 archers you shot 1 
arrows less than the number of archers. In case of a tie between the 
two lowest archers all archers from previous round may stay in the 
shoot.

Eventualy 2 archers get 1 shot where the first archer calls the shoot 
then shoot and the second archer gets to see where the first archer 
shoot and tries to do better or at least equal to the first archers 
shot.

Hey it's Thulish I know.

Ulvar

Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 19:27:09 -0500 (EST)
From:CarlNikki at aol.com
To: sirjon at netcom.com
Subject: Re: SCA archery (fwd)

     I just marshalled an event this weekend.  We had a Royal Round (see IKAC
rules), a slit shoot (6 inch by 2 foot vertical slit, representing an arrow
slit in a castle wall- objective is to get arrows into the slit and kill the
archer, arrows touching the lines don't count as they would have hit the edge
of the stone) and braggart's shoot (each archer takes six arrows and starts
walking away from the target, putting an arrow or arrows into the ground at
points where he/she thinks she/he can hit the objective- in this case, first
to hit the tatget and first to hit the gold on the target.  At the furtherest
arrow from the target, that archer takes his arrow and shoots.  If all
objestives are not done, next archer shoots and so on, until either all
arrows are shot or all objectives are met).  A wand shoot is fun. Run a strip
of duct tape verically on the target face (green, red or other stand out
color is great).  At 20 yards, with six arrows, hit the tape.  With good
archers, if more then one archer hits the tape, go to 30 yards and out until
only one archer hits the tape.  If two or more hit at one range and all miss
at the next, the archer with the most hits wins.  I have shot a contest of
call shot in Calontir wher the target face had different 4 inch circles.  We
had to call the color we were shooting for and got another shot (at another
color) only if we hit the called color (this can be tough), range 20 yards.

      Hope these are helpful.  Glad to see someone who is interested in
putting fun into practice.

      Carlyle

Date: Mon, 03 Mar 1997 20:58:54 -0800
From: Dana J. Tweedy <tweedyd at emh1.pa.net>
To: John Edgerton <sirjon at netcom.com>
Subject: Re: SCA archery ?ikaclist

 I came up with a shoot that we had a lot of fun with here in the south 
west corner of the East Kingdom,  It consists of dividing up the standard 
target face into 6 sections, then each archer rolls a six sided die to 
find out which section he shoots at, Points are standard Gold-5 Red-4, 
Blue-3 Black-2, white-1 (with a 10 point spot in the very center), but 
only in the section the archer rolls.  Arrows in other sections don't 
count.   We have also done some "Roving Range" shoots with varous targets 
at various distances.
                         Karl Rasmussen of Tvede

Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 00:38:46 EST
From: Jeffrey A Kulback <siegstan at juno.com>
To: gameroom at infowest.com

>We're planning an archery event this fall and would like some suggestions
>and requirements to holding one.  One of our ideas is a walking archery
>range where you are walking to various targets and related skill activities
>(similar to a mountain man contest).  Any ideas, comments, or suggestions?

>Gillaine
>gameroom at infowest.com

Sounds like what we call a Walk-through in Calontir.  Small groups of
archers with a marshal walk along a path.  When they come upon a target
they shoot one or two arrows at it, score and retrieve, and move further
along the path.

This works well with a hunting theme (animal targets, especially 3-D
animal targets), or as a combat theme (enemy snipers in the woods, or
maybe just poachers).  The real challenge here is that being in the woods
or on a field, with targets at a variety of non-standard distances,
judging distance becomes a critical part of the competition.  Allowing
two shots lets the archer use one as a ranging arrow with a chance to hit
on the second shot.

This can be a straight path through the woods, or it can zig-zag to allow
more  targets in a smaller area.  Depending upon where each target is and
where each firing point is, you often cannot let more than one group of
archers (with marshal) in the walk-through at one time.  This is not like
golf where you can just yell "fore" and hope everyone ducks.

Ideally this is best set up in a loop.  Groups walk along the loop with
the firing points at the outer edge of the loop.  The targets are outside
the loop with the firing lanes pointing outwards from the loop.  From
above this would look like a sunburst.

Another "walking around" type of archery shoot is "Archery Golf".  This
one takes up a LOT of open space.

One "hole" consists of a firing point, usually a stake in the ground,
from where the archers shoot their first arrows.  The target is located
anywhere from 100 to 300 yards away (or more).  The target is often
marked with a pole or something visible if the target is not close enough
to see.  The target can be a bale of straw, a stuffed burlap bag, a
marked circle on the ground, or anything else that can be shot at from
360 degrees.  A typical shoot can have from three to nine or more "holes"
depending upon the space available and the ingenuity of the people
setting up (who says you can't shoot at each hole from each tee.)

All archers shoot their first arrow.  The one with an arrow farthest from
the target stands over the arrow, pulls it and  shoots his second shot. 
The archer with the next closest arrow stands over it, pulls and shoots. 
Then the next one, etc.  This takes coordination  to ensure that all
archers are BEHIND the one doing the shooting.  This gets especially
challenging when the arrows starts landing closer to and all around the
target.  "Everyone move over here.  Now everyone move over there." 
Still, it's a lot of fun.

This can be done, and is usually done, with standard field or target
points.  When shooting at a target that is on the ground or just marked
on the ground, judo tipped arrows are handy.  If you miss, the overshoot
doesn't carry the arrow 20+ yards away.  I've also seen flu-flu (heavy
fletched) arrows used when an arrow landed behind a tree and the archer
wanted to lob a shot over the tree to the target area.

I hope this is helpful.

Siegfried Stanislaus (Calontir)

To: John Edgerton <sirjon at netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 14:00:16 -0800
From: Ravnos <sanctuary at koan.com>
Subject: Walking Archery Range

I thoroughly enjoyed a "field shoot" the Barbarian Freehold held at a Allthing (campout, party, etc) that was held in the Angelos National Park many years ago.  I believe Bragison (sp) was involved in setting up the shoot.  We were lead out as if on an actual hunting trip with a guide to lead us to where the game may be / or has known to have been.  It was our job to spot the targets. (these targets were pictures of wild life over what ever backing. 

If it was a raccoon, it was only the size of a raccoon and if it was a bear it was the size of a bear (backing and all). The first incentive for points was the first archer on the walking team to spot the target.  Then from that range (whatever it was) all the archers could take a shot or two, then they would advance in increments and shoot at each stopping point to shoot. Once it was hit _well_ (you define). That target was over on to search for the next target. Some were obvious once you got close enough, others were more well concealed by their natural colors etc.  At one point a pull system was engaged to move a deer target across our field of vision and we had to shoot fast to have any chance of scoreing a hit.  Others were nessled in rocks so if you wanted the extra points and trusted you aim you could risk your arrows breaking on the rocks.  

You  weren't required to shoot at any one target that was offered, so you weren't forced  to  risk your arrows! The funtional "speed round" though, was the point at which the  guide  stopped the rest of the party, and took us one at a time around a bend and down a  gully. "Nock an arrow and be ready!"  then they to left. A few moments later down the  gully,  (not from the direction of the other archers, and from a higher position in the  gully,)  a giant black bear came accelerating down the gully at you ( you must hit it and hit   well enough to kill it before it can get to and _"Kill"_ You).  Even knowing it was  all  pictures and simple rope pullies, I tell you it got the adreniline pumping in this  archers veins.  (I had the honor of winning that year, but that's not the point).  win  loose or draw, it was really FUN!.   I believe Lord Pagenus will remember that field   shoot as well.  He did really well also as would be expected.  Truth be known  Bragison  shot the highest total point score that day by a few points if I remember correctly,  but  honorably declined the prize etc. as he had worked on some of the field before hand.

Anyway it was a really fun event, I'll look forward to what you are going to do. I hope any or all of this will be helpful.  

In Service to the Dream 
Lord Yvon Bater of Darkwood 
 ... Rav ...                                                                        

To: Mark Harris
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 17:52:23 -0800 (PST)
From: John Edgerton <sirjon at netcom.com>
Subject: Re: candle shoot

On 6 Mar 1997, Mark Harris wrote:
> THL Paganus Grimlove posted (about GWW archery):
> >Candle Shoot - Robert Lanternsmith
> 
> How is a candle shoot done? Is the object to blow out a lit candle? Or
> just a fancy rod shoot?
> 
> Stefan li Rous,
> Barony of Bryn Gwlad
> Ansteorra
> markh at risc.sps.mot.com

To snuff the candle.  And it is done in the dark. 

Jon

To: John Edgerton
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 11:11:39 -0500 (CST)
From: Mike Bird <mjbird at clavdivs.MN.ORG>
Subject: Re: walking Archery Range (ikac-list)

I belong to a (mundane) archery club (Coon Rapids' Rapid Archers) and we have a  walk-thru range.  It's a wonderful thing to have, but it requires many-many acres since you  have to  make sure that the targets are spaced such that the longest possible flight from an  arrow  will still fall short of any other targets in the range.  

You also want to have the  trails from one target to another (we use thoses little flags that are used by the  telephone, gas, electric and underground watering companies to show where to install lines) are also  kept  safely away from the shotting lanes.  One of our most favorite events is the night 'coon shoot (we are in Coon (short for  raccoon) Rapids so that's what we call it).  We have targets shaped like raccoons, and the  only  illumination is a candle below the target.  I usually lose an arrow or two, but it  surely is  fun! 
--
Name:		Michael J. Bird
E-Mail:		mjbird at clavdivs.mn.org
WWW:        http://www.skypoint.com/~mjbird/
SCA:		Umberto della Foresta di Cento Ettari (in submission)
Telephone:	(612) 470-4264
U.S.Snail:	5520 Zumbra Lane
            Excelsior, MN 55331-7714

Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 19:05:36 -0400 (EST)
From: Mike Bird <mjbird at clavdivs.MN.ORG>
Subject: Re: Archery comititions (ikac/list)

> From: Jim L Morrison <eisenhart at juno.com>
> 
>  I'm looking for information on "different" shoots to hold at Lilies. If
> you have any info on this please forward it to me.
>  Different is defined as fun shoots suitable for 20-30 archers to
> complete in a hour and a half or less.

Well, I am having the same search for our Schutzenfest event.  This is the list  I've come up with so far: 

Bird - A bird effigy on a pole, if you have several sizes of poles, even better.   	You fire from quite near the base. 

War Doors - You get a couple of war doors from the heavy weapons fighters (these 
      are the LARGE sheilds that are occasionally used for showers!) and have an 	archer huddled behind each one.  When the call to shoot is given, the 
      archer has five (5!) seconds to leap out, loose two arrows, and get  
      COMPLETELY behind the shield again. 

Castle - Make an enclosure out of wood that has enough space for an archer to  
      huddle behind, and has only a small slit to shoot out of.  Timed event. 

Slit shoot - Take the contraption used in the Castle shoot, and put a target 
      where the archer was.  Archers then try to shoot INTO the slit 

Ring (wreath) - take some wreaths (straw wreaths used in flower arrangements 
      will work) of different diameters.  Zero points for hitting the wreath, 
      NEGATIVE points for hitting outside the wreaths, and positive points for 
      hitting inside with the smaller diameters worth more than the larger. 

Advancing Man - Two variations:
 	Static (ala Pennsic) - have targets set up every 5 yards or so.  Timed  	      event where everyone starts by shooting the furthest target off, 
            then switches to progressively nearer targets as the count goes on.  
            Higher points for the further off targets.
 	Dynamic - Have a target mounted on a sled or wagon, with a rope which goes 
            through two pulleys.  One at the archer's feet, the other the same 
            distance away from the archer (although in a safe direction) as the 
            target, then attaches to a harness which is worn by a fighter.  A 
            bell is placed near the archer. When the signal is given, the archer 
            looses arrows at the target while the fighter runs towards the 
            archer.  When the fighter reaches (and rings) the bell, the shoot 
            ends.  As the fighter advances towards the archer, the target does 
            too.  Kinda fun, shooting at a moving target. 

Clout - A 70 yard range with a VERY large target.  People have to shoot at 40+    
      degrees. 

Water Bag - I have not done this at SCA.  I have seen it done at my archery 
      club.  Two plastic baggies of water that are attached to each other via 
      string over a pulley.  When you shoot one, it starts to lose water.  You 
      have until the other one hits the ground to hit it. 

"Traveling" target - Have a target (a mannikin in the livery of your 
      traditional  foes is usually good) mounted with a pulley on a taught wire.  
      When a cable is pulled, the target moves. This could be combined with the 
      dynamic advancing man if you 	wish. 

Reverse Scoring - A lot of fun.  Just take the standard target and reverse the 
      score points.  You'll be surprised at how hard it is to deliberately get a  
      large score.  

That's all I can think of at the moment.  I will be attempting to implement at least  some of these at the Barony of Nordskogen's Schutzenfest on May 31.  See the Web page  (URL below) for more details.  I invite ALL SCA archers to attend!   
http://www.skypoint.com/members/mjbird/schutzenfest.html 

Yours, in service.
Umberto
--
Name:		Michael J. Bird
E-Mail:	mjbird at clavdivs.mn.org
SCA:		Umberto della Foresta di Cento Ettari (in submission)

Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:06:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Bosley <ebosley at linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
To: John Edgerton <sirjon at netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Fun Shoots

Sir Jon,
	One of my favorite fun shoots was a William Tell type shoot where
we shot fruit off of someone's head.  We used war arrows at 15'.  Everyone
was wearing full light armor.  We used oranges instead of apples.  The
oranges were placed on the head of the teammate of the person shooting.
The first three of four shots pulvarized the oranges.

H. L. Eric de Dragonslaire.

From: Andrew Tye <atye at efn.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Archery Rounds (Types)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 20:19:37 -0700
Organization: Oregon Public Networking

Adrian Hunsdon  writes:
>I am not yet a member of the SCA but you guys have really gotten this
>Brit intrigued!!.
>
>Do any of you guys (guys/gals/gentles/ARCHERS!!) shoot any of the "old"
>rounds - York/ST George/Herford etc rather than the modern FITA stuff??

Ivar here,

The York round is occasionally shot in the Canadian portions of An Tir,
(British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan).  It is not common because 
the distance shot at (approx. 100 meters) requires a pretty large field
and a lot of time to walk back and forth.  I do not personally know the
rules and history of this particular round however.  Perhaps someone else,
(Thorvald?), knows.

Ivar Hakonarson
Adiantum, An Tir.

From: "Chatzie Massey" <admass at PETSmonsanto.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Archery Rounds (Types)
Date: 17 Jun 1997 12:27:17 GMT
Organization: Monsanto Company

Bronwynmgn <bronwynmgn at aol.com> wrote:
:  Adrian Hunsdon  writes:
: 
: >I am not yet a member of the SCA but you guys have really gotten this
: >Brit intrigued!!.
: >
: >Do any of you guys (guys/gals/gentles/ARCHERS!!) shoot any of the "old"
: >rounds - York/ST George/Herford etc rather than the modern FITA stuff??
: >
: I personally don't know any of those rounds, but I'd love to learn more! 
: Please tell us about them!
: 
: There are two standard rounds used in the SCA, the Royal Round and the
: Interkingdom Archery Competition (IKAC) rounds.  The Royal round is used
: to create the ranking system for archers.  Both are shot on a standardized
: modern target face (60 centimeter NAA-FITA five-color round). Scoring is
: 1-5 points from the outermost ring to the innermost.
: The Royal round is:
: 6 shots at your leisure at each of  20 yard,  30 yard, and  40 yard
: targets 
: a 30 second timed shoot at 20 yards.
: The IKAC is:
: 12 shots at your leisure at each of  20, 30, and 40 yard targets
: 30 second speed rounds at each distance.
: 
: We also do lots of other shoots that are relatively standardized, ie clout
: shoots, which is a target of a 10 yard diameter circle of stacked hay
: bales (anywhere from one to three high), with the center of the circle one
: hundred yards from the shooting line to simulate a castle tower (ideally
: shot uphill), with the object to get your arrows into the circle, and
: often extra points for hitting a life-size human figure set up inside the
: circle.

: Also an advancing warrior shoot; life-size targets set up at 70, 60, 50,
: 40, 30, and 20 yards from the shooting line, with each target called for 5
: seconds at which you may shoot only at it before moving to the next closer
: one, all to be shot in a 30 second time period.  The calling is done with
: a 5 second ready count (the word ready said on each second), followed by
: 70, 70, 70, 70, 70, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 50, 50, etc with each number being
: called on the second mark.

: There are a variety of other sorts of novelty shoots as well.
: Bronwyn
 
Well answered, Bronwyn!  There are LOTS of local fare for the toxophile.
In Arenal, we have the Dinky Dragon shoot.  Dinky is a creation that looks
like a fabled dragon.  He is usually made out of the nastiest or silliest
purple fabric I can find cheap, then he is stuffed with straw or pine
needles or cedar chips, whatever is handy (newspaper doesn't work as well
as it sounds).  Points are awarded for certain areas of the dragon, like 5
for the head, 4 for the neck, three for a leg two for the body, one for a
wing, and none for the tail (tail shots don't do much mortal damage, and
only tick off the dragon!).  In Osprey, they have a wall shoot.  The
shooters line up on the fort wall and shoot down to a target about 40'
below.  The target is usually a very large sheet with various creatures
drawn upon it in different sizes.  There are more points for the smaller
creatures and special point areas for the dragon.( similar to Dinky)  Some
areas have an equestrian shoot, shot from horseback on a course of targets
(baskets) using combat arrows.  Arenal may set one up for the foot-traveled
archer.  We are still in the planning stages, but we plan to utilize the
guidelines for the equestrian shoot.
-- 
Chatzie Massey

Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:32:09 -0500
From: "Michael Newton" <melcnewt at netins.net>
Subject: SC - Archers' feast (Fw: [SCA-Archery] The Perfect Archery Event)

I thought this was a good idea for a feast; sounds like one Ras talks about,
IIRC, his hunters' feast.
Beatrix
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <jrosswebb1 at webtv.net>
To: <SCA-Archery at egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [SCA-Archery] The Perfect Archery Event

A few years ago I ran an archery hunting event with 3d animal targets.
It was set up as a roving range and archers were split up into groups of
four(4). Any archer that hit the heart ring was awarded a chit pertaining to that animal. These chits were exchangable at the feast for a serving of the animal represented. We had Venison, rabbit, boar, and goose. If the archer did not wish the serving they could present it to a noble or even a sweetheart.

The archers with the highest score in each group advanced to the finals to select the three highest archers of the day. This was an eighty(80) yard shot at an elk (3 arrows each) where the archer that came in first was awarded a golden stag head amulet, second was a gold arrowhead and third was a silver arrowhead amulet(all alloys of course).

This makes a great fall season event and of course there was also a full feast of chicken, beef and fish for all. The game meat was additional. We ran it again a couple of years afterward and the militant vegetarian faction provided a broccoli, cabbage and carrot targets (3d) to be included in the games. It was pretty funny.

I don't know if you'd call it the perfect archery event but it was a lot of fun.

Geoffrei

From: "Llwyd" <Llwyd at medievalcrazy.com>
Date: May 31, 2009 5:57:22 PM CDT
To: "Stefan li Rous" <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] GNW - Battle Clout

Greetings Stefan,

Battle Clout is an archery competition inspired by the one run by the Leongatha Medieval Society (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcZ6VXI2DRk) where archers that are competing supply a target showing their arms or device (or a represenation of). The size of the target is set as a minimum size - in our case, 450mm X 450mm (Half the size of one of the smaller sized boogie boards)
The intent is to hit your opponents devices with your arrows five times to 'kill' them. The last one surviving wins or in a team scenario, the team wins who 'kill' all the opposing team

The competition can be set up many ways - Individual, teams, groups etc.

It is similar to a clout shoot but as said, the devices are the target.
Each team or individual has their target set into an area of ground at the far end. The distance is usually around 100yards but this may be varied depending on conditions or other variables (Bow poundage or target size for instance)
The targets are packed so that as much area in the target zone has a device target as possible.
So, the ground area of each target could be 5M X 5M with 25 targets in it.
Each target is set onto a stake(s) at an approxiamate angle of 30 degrees facing towards the archers.

The intent is not to make it easy. This is supposed to be difficult!
There is an element of luck but skill also plays a large part and having five hits to a kill gives everyone competing a chance to get a hit on a target for personal satisfaction or fun.
 
Another reason for the long range is to minimize arrow loss. An arrow sticking out of the ground is far easier to find than one shot at a flat trajectory that vanishes into and invisibly under the lush grass if it misses the targets.
At GNW, the grass is very lush - around 4 inches thick and sometimes more. A lobbed shot is certainly preferable!

In an individual shoot, the targets are all placed on the same target area so it is possible to kill oneself!
This adds to the suspense, . . . and the pressure :)

The best target faces are the closed cell foam Boogie Boards. However, if they are unavailable or too expensive in the area, it can be made of other materials to resemble that, hence the suggested layers of 1/4" closed cell foam glued together out of the camping mat that has been used in the SCA as padding. The thicker the better so it stops the arrow without it passing through. Again I would suggest an absolute minimum of 4 layers and preferably 8 layers.

This is the first time for the SCA so I'm fudging it as I go along. I think I've got it pretty well right now and we will see how it turns out. I am anticipating it will be a ton of fun!
I will give you a complete description of the event after GNW.

Yours in Service,

Llwyd
GNW Archery Officer

=In the beginning, there was Archery=

On 31/05/2009 at 4:58 PM Stefan li Rous wrote:

>Greetings Llwyd,
>
>What is this "Battle Clout" competition? I see there comments about 
>making targets? from foam, but how is the shoot being done? Is this a 
>clout shoot or something else?
>
>I have this file in the ARCHERY section of the Florilegium, so this 
>might make a good entry for it. But I can't really tell from this 
>description what it is all about. A post-mortum review would also help 
>in letting folks what they might want to change if they decide to do 
>such a shoot.
>arch-shoots-msg (42K) 5/25/97 Different types of archery shoots.
>
>Thanks,
> Stefan
>
>
>Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 08:52:20 +1000
>From: "Madog Llwyd ap Madog" 
>Subject: [Lochac] GNW - Battle Clout, and more
>To: "Lochac_Archers List" 
>
>Greetings Everyone,
>
>By now you would have seen the Schedule of events at Great Northern 
>War (GNW)
>... And I have finalised details for the Battle Clout.
>
>After finding that many people have had problems finding cheap closed 
>cell foam Boogie Boards (Which are still the best option if you can 
>get one) I put out the suggestion of the 1/4" closed cell foam layers 
>glued together. I would highly recommend having it as thick as possible.
>
>The dimensions (Sorry to leave this so late) are now an absolute 
>minimum of 450mm X 450mm (Larger is better) and I have shortened the 
>range 75 yards to compensate for this.
>
>Your device or charge on your target should be as clear as possible 
>and as large as you can make it. It can be paper (I recommend spraying 
>it with something waterproof like clear enamel paint in case it rains) 
>and it needs to be able to be attached firmly in some manner that is 
>acceptable. Bright colours are certainly preferred but black and white 
>at a pinch is OK.
>Lastly, it needs mounting holes to attach it to two stakes behind 
>which I will supply.
>
>I would appreciate a 'heads up' if you intend to compete so I can have 
>the needed number of stakes there. Let me know at llwyd at medievalcrazy.com
>
>Being the very first SCA Battle Clout means I am having to find 
>answers to the problems archers are having trying to enter the Battle 
>and so there are changes. My apologies and please bear with me as I do 
>so. I think this about ties it up and we will be ready to go and have 
>some new fun.
>
>So, to summarise the event regarding archery, on Saturday, there is a 
>Royal Round, Kings Round and IKAC throughout the day and then on 
>Monday morning, we will have the Battle Clout.
>
>Bring your bows, arrows and a keen eye and I hope to see many of you 
>at GNW.
>
>If you don't come to GNW, you are going to miss a ton of fun!
>
>Yours in Service,
>Llwyd (Madog Llwyd ap Madog)
>
>GNW Archery Officer

From: Archerelf1 at aol.com
Date: May 31, 2010 9:24:21 PM CDT
To: stefanlirous at austin.rr.com
Subject: TMT Archery

Hey Stefan
Rather than keep perpetuating this thru the list, I thought I'd send it privately.
 
Christophe started with 4 paper plates on each of 2 targets. Shooters had 6 arrows to shoot, trying to hit each of the 4 plates on their target. 1 hit per plate, possible 4 points per target. Multiple hits on a single plate still only got 1 point. Extra points awarded for arrows left over if all 4 plates were hit.

Next round. same set up with next smaller plate. 3rd round was dessert plates. 4th round was (I think) 4" discs. Tie breaker was 3" discs. Had there been need for another round, it would have been timed by 30 seconds. There was only a 2 way tie at the tie breaker. Several things were awarded. I believe he awarded 3 places overall and 2 top round scores. He gave trinkets like pewter cast arrows. Very nice prize.
 
Christophe has a list of about 60 different styles of novelty shoot. Had we had time on Sunday morning, we would also have done a slot shoot. But due to rain and lightning, we pushed to go ahead with the IKAC instead. Just finishing up on the IKAC when the rain moved in.
 
Hope that helps.
Mar

Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:27:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: loreleielkins at aol.com
To: atlantia at atlantia.sca.org, archers at atlantia.sca.org,
	brnsacstone at yahoogroups.com, forsythsca at yahoo.com
Subject: [MR] A sneak peek.

I broke into the MiC's house while he and his Lady were away and stole a peek at the upcoming shoots happening at the Southern Atlantian Archery Day.  Shhhh....don't tell him. (wink)

A Friday Night Shoot (yes, in the dark....but I could not discover any details about it. Drat.)

- Matches: By shooting the "match" you extinguish the flame and save the camp. Static, three distances, three shafts per distance. 

- Eggs: The mis-colored Phoenix is an impostor. It has laid its eggs among the good Phoenix's eggs. You must shoot the bad eggs to prevent them from hatching. 6 shafts, one shaft per grouping.

- Scotsmen: The diabolical Scotsman is trying to set the camp on fire and he has brought friends.  You have to shoot the Scotsmen before they can light their fires.  Each target has three scoring areas. Only one shaft counts per scoring area per Scotsman.  Nine shafts, three shafts allowed per Scotsman.

- Swinging Cubes: Each cube has a good Phoenix on two sides and a bad phoenix on two sides. You must hit the bad phoenix. All shooters in groups must shoot at the same time. This is a timed shoot.  As many shafts as you can get off in time allowed - 45 seconds.

- Clout: Three targets ranging from about 75 yards to 125 yards. You may shoot at any or all targets.  6 shafts (This station has a kids and youth scoring)

- Running Donkey: The donkey is part of setting the camp on fire. He will be running left to right across your range.  You may shoot at the donkey as soon as he leaves his hiding place and stop when he finds his new hiding place. As many shafts as you can get off in time allowed.  Moving, timed target.

- Bubba and the Scot/Pendulum: The target is behind the swinging pendulum. You must shoot for score until the pendulum stops and hides the target from view.  As many shafts as you can get off in time allowed.  Moving, timed target.

- Shoot through the Murder Hole: You have found a small murder hole in the side of the castle.  You must shoot through the hold to hit your target.  Six shafts, stationary.

- Edward's Ring Shot: Your challenge here is to shoot the scoring dots through the rings hanging in front of them.  Six shafts. 

- Archers Slot/Castle Main Gate: You are outside the castle trying to shoot its defenders inside.  You see a target behind an archer slot or just inside the main gate.  Six shafts stationary.

These are just what I found out about the field stations.  Rumor has it there will be at least 10 targets in the woods in a "hunt style" shoot.

And all this finished off with a fantastic potluck dinner and amazing Bardic...PLUS A&S.  I'm about to faint, someone catch me.

http://www.saad.geffrei.com/

TH Lady Lorelei Greenleafe

Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 10:03:57 +1000
From: "Madog Llwyd ap Madog" <llwyd at personals.net.au>
Subject: Re: [Lochac] Festival Map
To: "The Shambles" <lochac at lochac.sca.org>

<<< Archers who wish to participate in the Battle Clout demo and shoot on
Monday :- Please bring along a boogie-board AND a garden stake or similar
so we can stand your boogie-board up to be shot at. I will supply wire
ties if you can supply your target and stake. It would also be nice if you
paint something distinctive on the top face.
Be aware in case you have not realized by now - it will be shot at and
sustain damage. Cheap boogie-boards can be obtained from many sources - I
have bought them at Crazy Clarks in the past :)

Llwyd 
Festival Archery Coordinator AS-XLV >>>

On 17/04/2011 at 10:24 AM Lynlee O'Keeffe wrote:
<<< How do you use boogie boards in clout shooting? and why do they need
wiring up? I was under the impression it was closest to a flag or other
pole markers??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clout_archery

Claricia >>>

This is a variation on Clout Shooting. Because it is competitive, it is called 'Battle Clout'.

The boogie board is standing up at long range and the goal is to hit your opponents and 'kill' them before they 'kill' yours.
It can be as a team or individually.

It =is= possible to kill oneself in individual shooting as all targets are in one bunch [grin].
This year, I will be starting it at 100yds reducing to 75yds and finally 50yds. This simulates (sort of) the advancement of a group of knights on a battlefield towards the archers. Hence the name Battle Clout.

This competition has been run before at GNW and will be run there again this year. It is the first time at Rowany Festival to my knowledge.

Llwyd

From: Bree Flowers <evethejust at gmail.com>
Date: February 13, 2012 11:52:05 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royal Huntsman - Special Tourney Rules***

<<< It certainly beats seeing standardized distances and
international circle targets being used (aka royal rounds).

Haraldr Bassi >>>

I once lived somewhere that did shoots at 3D targets in the woods. It was set up a bit like a golf course where you walked along a path and stopped to shoot at each thing, and we did the course in small groups. One archer at a time would step up to the beginning of the line, you could move forward along the line all the way to the end, but never backward, so you had to guess whether it was a good time to shoot, or if you took another step or two the shot would get better. You'd only get one shot at each target. Certainly added to the realism, but not much room for spectators, unless they too were wiling to come along for a walk in the woods. Also not too kind to arrows, you'd be surprised how hard it is to see a tree 3 yards in front of you when you're sighting at a deer 20 yards away. We set up little "arrow graveyards" so future archers would get an idea how bad a particular target was.

 Most fun I ever had at a shoot.

We ever do shoots like that in these parts?

~Eve

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris	arch-shoots-msg	Page  of