kumiss-msg – 10/5/19

Mongol drink made from mare's milk. Making it. Getting mare’s milk. Also Info on a similar beverage called Kefir made from Camel's milk.

NOTE: See also these files: Mongols-msg, horses-msg, horse-recipes-msg, beer-msg, beverages-msg, caudles-art, dairy-prod-msg, wine-msg, cheese-msg.

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Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: habura at vccnw13.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Subject: Re: Kumiss: thanks for info.
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 13:40:08 GMT

Yeasts and Milk: The organism that ferments lactose isn't yeast; it's a 
bacterium, generally genus Lactobacillus. Yeats can ferment other sugars,
like sucrose and glucose. 

To deal with this, you might want to consider picking up one of the following:

Lactase supplements. These are common in drugstores; they're sold for the
use of lactose-intolerant individuals (like yours truly). These will break
the lactose down into yeast-fermentable sugars. Don't heat them above body
temperature; they're enzymes and heat-labile.

Yogurt with active culture. Try an organic food store for this. These can
be used as a starter culture to make a dilute yogurt sort of thing. I don't
think it would be alcoholic, but you might use it in conjunction with sugar
and yeast to get a thick, mildly alcoholic glop.

Rennin. This is found in the stomachs of pigs, and might be the "magic 
ingredient" for real kumiss. It's commercially used for production of some
cheeses. They now have bacteria that produce it, too, so the price isn't
that bad. Try a dairy or a scientific supply house, like Sigma. 

I would not recommend using the Lactobacillus acidophilus-supplemented milks
as a starter culture. Given enough time, these organisms produce a 
hideous-tasting fermentation product; I imagine they would produce a kumiss
with all the taste appeal of toxic waste. 

Andrea Habura
(who is usually Alison MacDermot around here, but Alison doesn't know diddly
about microbiology, and Andrea does. In this post, I'm using the word
"fermentation" to indicate "any non-aerobic process by which organisms
derive energy".)

From: corun at access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Kumiss: thanks for info.
Date: 1 Apr 1993 10:38:53 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA

I've been waiting until I could talk to one of my Brothers about how he
made kumiss before posting this as I've never done it. Todric's recipe
is as follows;

Take skim milk (or regular milk, but watered down). Add lactose to this.
Mare's milk is much higher in lactose than cow's milk. Then use bread
yeast, not brewer's yeast, as a starter. This apparently has the desired
effect of producing the alchohol out of the lactose. Mix this in one of
those plastic water carriers (the five gallon ones with the handle and
spout), and hang it up so you can shake it vigorously from time to time.
This prevents the kumiss from turning to yoghurt. The spout can also be
opened periodically to burp it and release the pressure (or you end up
with kumiss mines exploding in camp).

I have been told that the kumiss bag was hung up just inside the yurt
door so that it could be shook by people going to and from the yurt,
thereby imparting a little of their energy into the drink as well.
Before the kumiss was drunk, a little was spilled on the ground as an
offering to the Tengri. To the best of my knowledge, this tradition 
is still practiced today.

In the exhibit that came to the Smithsonian a few years ago from Russia,
entitled Nomads of the Eurasian Steppe, the were many kumiss implements,
including ladles and stirring spoons, as well as leather bags and pitchers.
Some of the ladles were highly decorated, and one pitcher seemed to be
made of a long necked gourd that was decorated with very intricate geometric
patterns of red and black. I usually bring to Pennsic the photos that I
was allowed by the Russians to take of this exhibit. Anyone interested in
seeing these (some really nice costume and jewelry shots too) may come
to Moritu camp at Pennsic and ask for me. My yurt is modelled on the one
that was in this exhibit. The Russians invited me back after the exhibit
closed to take measurements and photos of the inside, since no one was
allowed in it during the exhibit. A marvelous chance at research.

In service,
Corun
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |		Nothing's perfect.
  Dark Horde by birth  |	     I've seen it, and it is.
    Moritu by choice   |				T. Koenig

From: corun at access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Kumiss question
Date: 3 Apr 1993 11:49:27 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA

st1xe at rosie.uh.edu (Brown, Derek S) writes:
>Though I have never made kumiss, I am thinking of doing so and have a question.
>I don't know where to get mare's milk.  I have seen the use of skim milk
>here on the Rialto but wonder is anyone has ever tried goat's milk instead.
>It can be gotten from most health food stores and has almost no lactose in
>it, which is why lactose intolerant people can drink it.  Any ideas?

THe only place I know to get mare's milk is to find someone who raises
horses and talk them into milking a mare or two during foaling season.
They will probably look askance at you for making such a request, since
milking horses is not (to my knowledge) a very common practice in the
U.S. Still, if you tell them it's for medaeval research, they may be more
accomodating.

I have a friend who's family raises Shires, the biggest horse in existence,
but she has yet to talk her father into milking one of them. This is a
daunting task on even a horse as small as the ones common to the steppe,
and even more so on one as large as a Shire. She once told me of a foal
their mare had that stood nearly eleven hands at birth. That's a big baby.

In service,
Corun
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |		Yes, we have no bananas.
  Dark Horde by birth  |	       No bananas in Scranton, P A
    Moritu by choice   |				H. Chapin

From: svartorm at netaxs.com (Emil Stecher)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Morgans/koumiss
Date: 19 Mar 1994 08:52:08 GMT
Organization: Netaxs BBS and shell accounts!

: : 	Second, has anyone out there tried/had/made koumiss, the Mongol
: : mare's milk stuff? 

I have never brewed a mare's milk koumis, but long years ago Duke Sir 
Asbjorn came up with a recipe for what I think of as pseudokoumis, and
which was reffered to around Carolingia as Electric Milk or the ol' 
Moloko.
     The recipe, as best I remember went: 
            Add 1 tbsp of honey to 1quart of whole (cow's) milk.
            Boil until the milk skims.
            Add 1/8 tsp fleischman's yeast when the milk had cooled.
            Jug it up and wait a day or two.
    The taste was, I seem to recall, like that of a sharp buttermilk.
    This version is not particularly alcoholic. I liked it.

     Some years ago a gentleman from Ostgard, as I heard the tale,
contacted the embassy of the People's republic of Outer Mongolia to the
U.N., asked for and received a recipe for koumis. You might try that option.
My understanding is that it went something like this:
         Take a goat's stomach, fill it with mare's milk, sew it shut. Get
several huskies with hardwood staves to beat this for a while, then let it
sit until the curds and whey separate. Drain off the whey, mix it with
honey, then seal it up again. Go away for a month or two. When you come back,
it's koumis time.
                              Hope this helps some,
                                   Barak Raz

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Paul Placeway <pwp at cs.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Morgans/koumiss
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 05:38:42 GMT

<: : 	Second, has anyone out there tried/had/made koumiss, the Mongol
<: : mare's milk stuff? 

A number of years ago, a friend of mine (AEldred) figured out a more-
or-less safe way to make the stuff.  The basic idea is that some cold
lagering yeasts will work below the maximum safe temperature to store
milk, so after sufficient adjustment you can make the stuff in your
fridge.

I believe the basic idea was to take a bunch of cow's or goat's milk,
mix in some kind of sugar (I believe AEldred used lactose; honey may
be a good choice because of antibiotic effects), pitch in cold
lagering yeast, put the whole mess in a gallon glass jug with water
lock, and put it in your fridge.  Check the water lock often since
most self-defrosting fridges tend to dehydrate things quickly.

I leave the question of whether one would *want* to make this stuff in
one's fridge to the reader.  I did sample the result -- kinda like
fizzy, slightly alcoholic, not-sweet milk.  Odd stuff.

		-- Tofi

From: HAROLD.FELD at hq.doe.GOV
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Kumiss
Date: 24 Mar 1994 09:17:03 -0500
Organization: The Internet

          Greetings from Yaakov.

          I love Kumiss (my lady thinks the whole concept is gross
          and, in a fit of prejudice, will not even remain around
          while I am drinking it) and have brewed it a number of
          times.  I usually take a quart of skim milk, three teaspoons
          of sugar, and some champagne yeast (wine yeast works too).

          I brew at room tempature.  Pre-start the yeast with some
          commercial yeast starter before adding it to the milk and
          seal.  This will prevent it from going bad.  The alcohol
          generated will also act as a preservative.  (I have stored
          Kumiss for over a month at room tempature with no
          ill-effects).

          Note from experience- do not try this with chocolate milk.
          I did once, the chocolate precipitated out and made the
          texture fairly horrid.

          Yaakov (who before marraige used to add kumiss to his
          morning tea, but has given it up in the interests of marital
          harmony)

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:35:27 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - kvas

> Yes, I am. It does clear up some of the questions about kvas and I
> almost always like to learn about new things even if not always
> willing to try them. Kvass is a lot higher on my list of things to
> try than Kumiss though.

I rather liked it myself (kumiss, that is). The most important rule
seems to be that if you can't get mare's milk, don't let anyone try to
talk you into using goat's or sheep's milk! Otherwise you'll end up with
an intriguing Romano cheese wine...nowadays cow's milk is considered an
acceptable substitute, apparently. The final product is rather like half
whey and half white wine, with about 1% alcohol.

Adamantius

Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:27:50 +22300454 (EST)
From: karen at addl.purdue.edu (Karen Stegmeier)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: mares milk

 No I don't think you will get busted for unnatural acts by ordering some
Mares Milk.  Occasionally Vets will have some for orpahn foals but more
often they would have frozen colostrum and then use foallac a powdered
mares milk replacer, neither of which would be good for doing what I 
think you are going to be doing.  Your best bet is to call your 
State equestrian association and tell them that you need to locate
someone with a nursing mare and see if they will sell you some
milk.  You won't be able to get a couple of gallons all at once
Horses produce small amounts continuously during their lactation
rather than being used to only being milked a couple times a day like a 
cow.  There are also Nurse Mare farms, but as I said you need to check
with your state eq. association and they can direct you.  I don't think
I would tell them why you need it, but that is up to you.
Also keep in mind that the anti-parisitic drugs that are given to
modern horses ussually say Not for horses intended for food I don't
know if this applies to the milk as well, but You will want to be
careful not to get milk that was taken the week after the horse was
just de-wormed.  Some people de-worm monthly, some twice a year or so.
I have often said that I want to eventually do an all equine related
Arts and Sciences Pentathalon entry, but I think I'll skip the 
equine related brewing and vintning idea. It is not to my tastes, but
best of luck to you!

-Lady Isabeau Pferdebandiger, Constellation Region, Middle

Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 19:43:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: ALBAN at delphi.com
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: mares milk

One of the odder book titles that I've run across and that I absolutely have
to read some day was along the lines of "Kumiss and Mongolian Ceremonies". . . 

(Further bibliographic information will have to wait for a couple of weeks
until I get back from vacation, to my _real_ computer.)

Alban

Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 09:11:26 -0600
From: mfgunter at tddeng00.fnts.com (Michael F. Gunter)
Subject: SC - Kumiss

I got to try kumiss a few weeks ago. As the new Elfsea Defender we were hosted
at all of the Cultural Camps on the site. In the Mongol encampment one of the
dishes offered was kumiss. I don't know if this was "real kumiss" or an easy-bake variation but I thought it was wonderful. It tasted a bit like vodka mixed with milk. This sounds disgusting but is actually pretty good. The milk smooths and cools the bite of the alcohol while providing that wonderful warm relaxing glow of hard alcohol. Not bad at all actually.

Gunthar

Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:46:58 -0400
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #484

>Conchobar says:
>       Ok, I foolishly agreed to make a soup/stew for our event in March.
>
>Me too!   It's the first time I've volunteered for such a thing.  The
>title of the event is "Cossaks, Mongols & Huns" and I don't have to stick
>to the theme, but it would be nice.  Anyone have an idea what Cossaks,
>Mongols or Huns ate?
>
>Anne

Here's a little something for you:

"He had us asked what we wanted to drink, wine or terracina, which is rice
wine (cervisia), or caracosmos, which is clarified mare's milk, or bal,
which is honey mead.  For in winter they make use of these four kinds of
drinks."(From "A Mission to the Great Khan," by William of Rubruck, c.
1253-4, found in Ross, p. 469.)

KOUMISS, A VALUABLE WINE OF THE TARTARS - 1819

1 part mare's milk      1/8 part cow's milk, soured
1/6 part water

Take of fresh mare's milk, of one day, any quantity; add to it a sixth-part
water, and pour the mixture into a wooden vessel; use then, as a ferment,
an eighth-part of the sourest cow's milk that can be got; but at any future
preparation, a small portion of old koumiss will better answer the purpose
of souring.  Cover the vessel with a thick cloth, and set it in place of
moderate warmth; leave it at rest twenty-four hours; at the end of which
time the milk will have become sour, and a thick substance will be gathered
on its top; then, with a stick, made at the lower end in the manner of
churn staff, beat it till the thick substance above mentioned be blended
intimately with the subjacent fluid.  In this situation leave it again at
rest for twenty-four hours more; after which, pour it into a higher and
narrower vessel, resembling a churn, where the agitation must be repeated
as before, till the liquor appear to be perfectly homogeneous; and in this
state it is called koumiss:  of which the taste ought to be a pleasant
mixture of sweet and sour.  Agitation must be employed every time before it
is used...
(From The American Economical Housekeeper and Family Receipt Book, by Mrs.
Esther Allen Howland, 1850.)
(Excerpted from A Sip Through Time, copyright 1994, Cindy Renfrow.)

Cindy/Sincgiefu

Subject: Re: koumiss
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:03:15 EST
From: Bojegei <Bojegei at aol.com>
To: stefan at texas.net

Hi Stefan, Aislinn Columba (sdale at mail.tqci.net) requested that I send a copy
of my Koumiss posting to you for the florilegium.  So, in case your interested
in posting it, here it is.  The source goes on to detail the mongols method of
preserving butter for the winter plus a method of making dried milk so they
could reconstitute it in the winter when they mares & cows couldn't be milked.
If you'd like to post that too let me know and I'll send it to you this
weekend.

It might also be of interest to other vinters due to the description of
caracosmos and reference to the lees of wine - this indicates (to me, at
least) that as early as the 1250's they were aging wine at least long enough
for the yeast (lees) to settle out.  I've had some people tell me that they
drank wine while it was still fermenting!

Bojegei
aka Kate Bercaw

From:   bojegei at aol.com (Bojegei)
>John Groseclose wrote:
>> Koumiss is fermented mare's milk. I've tried it... Didn't like it very
>> much, but then there are people for whom Scotch is distasteful.
>
>Do you perchance have a recipe? My cheesemaking husband would love to
>find one...
>
>-georg

The following is an excerpt from _The Journey of William of Rubruck_  who was
sent  to the court of Mongu Khan.  He started the journey in 1253 and the
narrative was written upon his return.

"Cosmos, that is mare's milk, is made in this way: they stretch along the
ground a long rope attached to two stakes stuck into the earth and at about
nine o'clock they tie to this rope the foals of the mares they want to milk.
Then the mothers stand near their foals and let themselves be peacefully
milked; if any one of them is too restless, then a man takes the foal and,
placing it under her lets it suck a little, and he takes it away again and the
milker takes its place.

And so, when they have collected a great quantity of milk, whish is as sweet as
cow's milk when it is fresh, they pour it into a large skin or bag and they
begin churning it with a specially made stick which is as big as a man's head
at its lower end, and hollowed out; and when they beat it quickly it begins to
bubble like new wine and to turn sour and ferment, and they churn it until they
can extract the butter.  Then they taste it and when it is fairly pungent they
drink it.  As long as one is drinking, it bites the tongue like vinegar; when
one stops, it leaves on the tongue the taste of milk of almonds and greatly
delights the inner man; it even intoxicates those who have not a very good
head.  It also greatly provokes urine.

For use of the great lords they also make caracosmos, that is black cosmos, in
this wise.  Mare's milk does not curdle.  Now it is a general rule that the
milk of any animal, in the stomach of whose young rennet is not found, does not
curdle; it is not found in the stomach of a young horse, hence the milk of a
mare does not curdle.  And so they churn the milk until everyithing that is
solid in it sinks right to the bottom like the lees of wine, and what is pure
remains on top and is like whey or white must.  The dregs are very white and
are given to the slaves and have a most soporific effect.  The clear liquid the
masters drink and it is certainly a very pleasant drink and really potent."

Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 06:44:12 -0700
From: Edwin Hewitt <brogoose at pe.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Fermenting milk

Stefan li Rous wrote:
> Edwin asked:
> > Does anyone know what this mongolian beverage might be, and how it
> > is made?  Can goat's milk be substituted?  How do you avoid bacterial
> > contamination?  What is the best yeast?  What is the best sugar source?
>
> Most kumiss that I have heard of in the SCA has been made from goats or
> cows milk. One poster made a comment that he didn't really think he
> wanted to try milking the horses he had available. :-) They were
> apparently a bit larger than the Mongol ponies.
>          http://lg_photo.home.texas.net/florilegium/index.html ****

Thank you for the feedback.  Yes, what I am looking for is either Kumiss,
mare's milk, or Kefir, camel's milk.  I was looking for a source for the "starter" or Kefir Kernals, and how the process worked.  I didn't want cottage or blue cheese when I was done.  I found a source for both at "Lifeway Kefir."
Apparently, Kumiss and Kefir can be made from any milk.  I was thinking
of using goat's milk because I thought it might be more like the thinner
mare's milk.  In their Kefir's History section they state that:

    "Kefir dates back many centuries to the shepherds of the Caucasus
    mountains. They discovered that fresh milk carried in leather pouches
    would occasionally ferment into an effervescent beverage.

    In the Caucasian Mountains, legend has it that the resulting kefir "grains
    (not really a true grain) were a gift to Orthodox people from Mohammed,
    who instructed them on how to use the grains. Mohammed strictly forbade
    them from giving away the secret of kefir preparation to other people, or
    pass anyone kefir grains, because they would lose their "magic strength."
    The legend explains why kefir grains and the method for kefir preparation
    have been surrounded by mystery for so long.

    For most of recorded history, kefir was scarcely known outside the
    Caucasian Mountains, although Marco Polo mentioned it in recounting
    his travels."

There is supposed to be a host of health benefits from drinking Kefir backed
by modern research by bacteriologists who say that Kefir's wide spectrum of
useful micro organisms has a "beneficial effect on the intestinal flora".
 I was surprised to find that the kernals were not just yeast, "These grains
consist of casein and gelatinous colonies of microorganisms that are grown together symbiotically."  Yummy...

They have a book available called  "Kefir Rediscovered,"  and more importantly,
the starter, Kefir grains.  A whole history can be found at their site at:
http://kefir4u.com/kfmore.htm
--
Edwin

From: ogedei at hotmail.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Koumiss
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 01:38:15 GMT

Recently a mongolian net brother located this recipe on-line and sent
it my way.  He is currently experimenting with it.

This recipe seems to me to be close to the descriptions given by the
monks that travelled that way in hopes of finding out what the Mongols
were after.  (ie Carpini and Rubruck)

Before I jump head long into this process though I was wondering if
some of kumiss brewers that exist might share their thoughts with me
on this.  Especially the bit about using skim milk as a fermentation
starter....

Thanx in advance

Ogedei

To make Koumiss, a Tartar Wine.

     Take of fresh mare's milk any quantity; add to it 1/3 part of
water, and pour the mixture into a wooden vessel. Use
     as a ferment 1/8 part of skimmed milk, but at any future
preparation a small portion of old koumiss will answer
     better. Cover the vessel with a thick cloth, and set it in a
place of moderate warmth; leaving it at rest for 24 hours, at
     the end of which time the milk will become sour, and a thick
substance will be gathered on its top. Now, with a
     churn staff, beat it till the thick substance above-mentioned be
blended intimately with the subjacent fluid. In this
     situation leave it at rest for 24 hours more, after which pour it
into a higher and narrower vessel, resembling a churn,
     where the agitation must be repeated as before, till the liquor
appears to be perfectly homogenous. In this state it is
     called koumiss; of which the taste ought to be a pleasant mixture
of sweet and sour. Agitation must be employed
     every time before it is used. Sometimes aromatic herbs, as
Angelica, are infused in the liquor during fermentation.

Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:34:59 -0000
From: "Nanna Rognvaldardottir" <nanna at idunn.is>
Subject: Re: SC - OT - freezing things

Merald wrote:
> Speaking of freezing things, can you freeze milk?  I will need some mares
>milk at a time that is inconvenient to find it, and it is available now...

Mare’s milk freezes well (that’s how it is sold here, when available) but
may be somewhat grainier when thawed and the taste may be slightly affected.
When thawing, it is best to submerge the milk container in cold water and
defrost it slowly.

Nanna

From: bojegei at aol.com (Bojegei)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: 31 Dec 2000 17:29:59 GMT
Subject: Re: Help: Cumis, mare's milk drink

>Thanks. Can you tell me more?

There's an article and a long post in Stephen's Floriligeum (sp?) that I did on
period koumiss making - they're essentially a long quote from a period text
with a little commentary and background.  However, I've never actually made the
stuff myself.  But I drink my friends batches.

>Ottavio's first try ended up with a disgusting, two inch thick cheese at
>the top of the bottle.

Ah, all the texts and descriptions I've read say that it's churned and mixed
frequently.  There's an amazingly diverse collection of implements for stirring
koumiss.  Also, since the recipe in the Florilleum was created (by Todric, I
believe) we've discovered that mare's milk has a higher percentage of milk fat
than cow's milk so using skim milk might not be right.  (Some texts indicate
that butter is removed in the process and some indicate that all the fat's
stirred back in.)

Bojei

From: Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: OOP: Koumis recipes.
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 15:00:51 -0500
Organization: Help Center (Comp Svcs), Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I've got a facsimile edition of the original Fanny Farmer's Boston
Cooking School Cookbook (1896), in which I found a recipe for koumiss
(spelled that way too.) She describes it as a good food for fevers and
gastric problems.  Here's the recipe:

1 quart milk
1 1/2 Tbsp sugar
1/3 yeart cake dissolved in 1 Tbsp lukewarm water

Heat milk until lukewarm; add sugar and dissolved yeast cake.  Fill beer
bottles within one and one-half inches of the top, cork and invert.  The
corks must be firmly tied down with strong twine.  Let stand for six
hours at a temprature of 80 F.  Chill, and server the following day.

I've always wondered how Fanny got hold of that term, whether it was in
general use in 19th C American cookery, and how far her recipe is from
the Mongolian recipes (aside from using cows milk).  One of these day's
I'll get around to researching it.

toodles, margaret

Excerpts from netnews.rec.org.sca: 31-Dec-100 Re: Help: Cumis, mare's
mil.. by Bojegei at aol.com 
> Ah, all the texts and descriptions I've read say that it's churned and mixed
> frequently.  There's an amazingly diverse collection of implements for stirring
> koumiss.  Also, since the recipe in the Florilleum was created (by Todric, I
> believe) we've discovered that mare's milk has a higher percentage of milk fat
> than cow's milk so using skim milk might not be right.  (Some texts indicate
> that butter is removed in the process and some indicate that all the fat's
> stirred back in.)

From: ruhl at latakia.dyndns.org (Robert A. Uhl)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: OOP: Koumis recipes.
Date: 31 Dec 2000 21:32:15 GMT

On Sun, 31 Dec 2000 15:00:51 -0500, Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
[re: Kumiss]
> She describes it as a good food for fevers and gastric problems.

On the theory, perh., that anyone who has a single serving experiences
a miraculous recovery?  `Oh, yes, I quite better, certainly, never
felt finer all my life.  Why, I think I'll go turn cartwheels in the
park.  Perh. I'll invade a small land mass.  Don't think I'll be
needing any more of that milk stuff, thankyouverymuch...'

> Fill beer bottles within one and one-half inches of the top, cork
> and invert.  The corks must be firmly tied down with strong twine.
> Let stand for six hours at a temprature of 80 F.  Chill, and server
> the following day.

As a brewer, let me caution you very strongly about this sort of
recipe.  It may work, or you may be lucky.  A lot of earlier
(i.e. 19th-early 20th century) recipes for fermented beverages simply
trust that the liquid will be consumed quickly, or that the bottles
are strong, or that the product will be kept very cold, in order to
impeded the action of the yeast.  The problem is that most of these,
when made, result in bottle bombs.

A much safer procedure (and more palatable) is to ferment out the
mixture, then rack it over, let it settle some more, then rack it over
again, mix in a measured amount of dissolved sugar (corn, malt, honey
or table) and bottle.  The amount of sugar to use depends on both the
type and the amount to be bottled.

The settling process removes autolysed yeast and results in a much
tastier product; allowing the yeast to complete their job means that
the only fizzing produced is from the added sugar.
-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl at 4dv.net>

From: noramunro at aol.comclutter (Alianora Munro)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: 31 Dec 2000 23:34:42 GMT
Subject: Re: OOP: Koumis recipes.

Gretchen M Beck <grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>I've always wondered how Fanny got hold of that term, whether it was in
>general use in 19th C American cookery, and how far her recipe is from
>the Mongolian recipes (aside from using cows milk).

Mongolian recipes tend to use a "starter" from a previous batch, rather than a
cake of yeast.  ;-)

"Koumis" (however you spell it) is, IIRC, the Turkic word for the stuff; the
Mongolian term I think is "airag" (much as "yurt" is the Turkic word for
dwelling, and "ger" is the Mongolian word).  The Turkic language family has
better overall contact with the west than the Ural-Altaic family (which
includes Mongolian).  The Mongols don't have a monopoly on fermented milk
products, though the prospect of Fanny Farmer learning about koumis from her
Turkish granny seems a bit unlikely.  ;-)

Regards,
Alianora Munro, Bright Hills, Atlantia
No path of flowers leads to glory -- J. de La Fontaine
http://hometown.aol.com/noramunro/Chateau/index.htm
clear up the clutter to reply

From: yaakov_hamizrachi at my-deja.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Help: Cumis, mare's milk drink
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:20:03 GMT

Greetings from Yaakov:

maridonna at worldnet.att.net wrote:
> Ottavio's first try ended up with a disgusting, two inch thick cheese at
> the top of the bottle. The only way he was able to get it out was by
> cutting it up as best he could and using hand made copies of medieval
> skin-hooks. It was gross, stinky and smelled like a daycare center full
> of sick infants.
> --
> Andrea/Maridonna

It's been a number of years since I made Koumiss, primarily because my
wife keeps complaining about my drinking spoiled milk.  However, I never
found it spoiled.

I used skim milk, sugar and montrechet champagne yeast.  If left at room
temperature, it would ferment in a bout a day.  The effect is a fizzy,
tangy milk.  If left a week, it would start to taste off.  I never took
a hydrometer reading, so I have no clue as to alcohol content.

Oh yes, and never use chocolate milk.  The chocolate precipitates out
and it gets really gross.

I never had the experience you describe.  How much yeast did you use?

Mar Yaakov

From: Andrea Hicks <maridonna at worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Help: Cumis, mare's milk drink
Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 02:28:10 GMT

These experiences came from a combination of 1) too much heat (the room
was about 78 degrees) and 2) rennet in the lactase I used to break down
the milk sugars for fermenting. I do want to try to get some good drink
out of one of my experiments, but the last one sent Kumiss curds flying
over 20 feet when I opened the bottles. (even blew the ceramic 'lid' off
of my Grolisch bottle). I guess I will have to attempt a version that
does not get bottled. I do have a lead on some interesting variations,
but will have to wait till the experiments are in to write more on it.

Thanks for all the input
Ottavio

Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:14:04 +1000
From: "Craig Jones." <craig.jones at airservices.gov.au>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: rice pudding & marrow
To: sca-cooks <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Organization: Airservices Australia

>>UberEvilDrakey (who's very happy because someone has found horse's
>>milk powder, tee hee, instant kumiss!!!)
>
>Drake, you scare me.  What the hel* are you talking about here?
>Olwen with a pained look on my face

Umm,  I'm way more known in Lochac for my Brewing as opposed to my
cooking.  I enjoy the more far our recipes and Kumiss (Fermented
Mare's Milk) is wonderful.

It tastes like a fizzy milkshake with a dash of yeast and white wine
when young and tastes like a cross between Vodka and cottage cheese
when aged.  Yumbo.

SickoDrakey.

Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 06:42:57 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Kumiss

Christina Nevin wrote:
>>Kumiss (Fermented Mare's Milk) is wonderful.
>>It tastes like a fizzy milkshake with a dash of yeast and white wine
>>when young and tastes like a cross between Vodka and cottage cheese
>>when aged. Yumbo.
>>SickoDrakey.
>
> My flatmate Ozbeg used to make this in our airing cupboard every now and
> then. It did indeed taste something like that and to my mind was TOTALLY
> disgusting - he liked it though (but what can you expect from Mongols?). The
> airing cupboard had this ever-so-wonderful sour milk smell for days
> afterwards however.

Actually, Drake's description is very nearly the first description I've
ever heard from a SCAdian admitting to the possibility that the stuff
might not be utterly and universally revolting from the moment of
creation. My own experience was similar to what he describes, too, quite
tasty early in the game, although in its advanced stages the
vodka-and-cheese aspect showed its cheesy head. There's something not
quite right about a drink that tastes like a fine, aged Romano cheese.

Adamantius 

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 03:39:41 -0500
From: David Hughes <davidjhughes.tx  at netzero.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Microbiologists in the SCA

lubarsky wrote:
 > I am looking for a working microbiologist who will be willing to help me
 > source lactose-fermenting yeasts for making a reasonable...er, drinkable
 > facsimile of koumiss. The only source I know of is the National Type Culture
 > Collection, and they will sell only to people with the proper accademic or
 > institutional connections (being institutional doesn't help.
 >
 > Avrahm ben Aharon

Are you trying to make koumiss or a high alcohol milk based beverage?

For Traditional Koumiss:
Galactose-Fermenting Yeasts as Fermentation Microorganisms in
Traditional Koumiss

Corresponding author; Fax: 3987 4481382, e-mail: gx4resb4  at vm.cineca.it>

Graziella Montanari1 and Luigi Grazia2*

1 Dipartimento di Protezione e Valorizzazione Agroalimentare,
Università di Bologna,

Villa Levi-42100 Reggio Emilia, Italy

2 Dipartimento di Scienze e Tecnologie Agro-Alimentari,

Ambientali e Microbiologiche, Università del Molise, I-86100
Campobasso, Italy

Received: September 10, 1997

Accepted: November 17, 1997

Summary

Yeast flora composition was determined in 94 samples of traditional
Central Asian koumiss. The dominant yeast was Saccharomyces unisporus
which, though lactose non-fermenting, ferments galactose well and is
mainly responsible for alcoholic fermentation of koumiss.

Sacch. unisporus normally causes slower and less clean alcoholic
fermentation than Sacch. cerevisiae since it produces larger amounts
of minor fermentation compounds such as glycerol, succinic and acetic
acid. It has low alcohol producing capacity and cannot complete grape
must fermentation. It is more vigorous only in milk whey where it
achieves clean alcoholic fermentation.

Keywords: koumiss, yeast, Saccharomyces unisporus

This suggests that traditional Koumiss doesn't depend on lactose
fermentation.
The Yeast mentioned, as well as many other cultures, may be purchased
from:  http://www.ncyc.co.uk/Default.html

For a fermented Lactose milk based beverage, might I suggest Kefir?
The microbiotic culture can be obtained in the form of stable kefir
"grains" that are available from several sources.  For more information:
http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:01:10 -0500
From: "David J. Hughes" <davidjhughes.tx  at netzero.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Microbiologists in the SCA

lubarsky wrote:
> "David Hughes" <davidjhughes.tx  at netzero.net> wrote 
>>
>>lubarsky wrote:
>> > I am looking for a working microbiologist who will be willing to

SNIP

>>This suggests that traditional Koumiss doesn't depend on lactose
>>fermentation.
>>The Yeast mentioned, as well as many other cultures, may be purchased
>>from:  http://www.ncyc.co.uk/Default.html
>>
>>For a fermented Lactose milk based beverage, might I suggest Kefir?
>>The microbiotic culture can be obtained in the form of stable kefir
>>"grains" that are availble from several sources.  For more information:
>>http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html
> 
> Well this seems to contradict  previous research which claimed that
> Kluyveromyces marxianus was the yeast involved in koumiss. Old koumiss is
> suposed to be quite alchoholic.
> I have tried kefir in the past but it aint koumiss (maybe a good thing).
> 
> Avrahm

Can't comment on that as I don't know which research you are referencing.

Modern usage of Kluyveromyces marxianus appears to be the commercial 
production of various lactase enzyme groups, with alcohol productions 
an incidental side reaction.
But if you want a sample the National Collection of Yeast Cultures 
http://www.ncyc.co.uk/Default.html
has two strains available.

Not cheap, roughly £80 including shipping per freeze-dried ampoule, 
but a source.

David Gallowglass

From: "Mark S. Harris" <stefanlirous  at austin.rr.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
To: "lubarsky" <lubarsky  at snet.net>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: Microbiologists in the SCA

Milord Stephan.

I have some koumiss formulas derived from Russian work that essentially replaces the mare's milk with something approximating veternary formula for foals. The
russians wanted koumiss for the masses, but obviously all that mare's milk
would be a show stopper.

Mare's milk is a show stopper for me too. I probably will be playing around with Kefir grains combined with the mare's milk substitute which is made from skim cow's milk, reconstituted dried whey and lactose. A mixture of whey and lactose would be innoculated with the kefir grains and left for a day or two in a gallon jug. The grains would be filtered out and the liquid with some of the active cultures would be mixed with skim milk fortified with more lactose and put in a fresh jug with a 2" teflon-coated magnetic stirring bar. The jug is then capped and placed on a magnetic stirring plate for an additional day or two. If I leave enough headroom in the jug nothing should explode. Finally buttermilk is added and the mixture allowed to age in the refrigerator. 

Avrahm ben Aharon

From: drakemorgan [mailto:drakey at webone.com.au]
Sent: Thursday, 11 December 2003 12:50 PM
To: lochac-brewers at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [lochac-brewers] RE: Kumiss (very long)

Drake here...

Greetings Brewers,
>I have just arranged for some mares milk to be collected for me from my
>uncles horse stud.

I am supremely jealous…

>Now before a selection of milk iceblocks turn up at my door I require
>some advice on how to turn it into something drinkable.

That's not so easy…

>What yeast have people used in the past?
>How long does it brew for?
>How long before you drink it?
>How long before it goes off?
>And anything else you might think is important to know before attempting.

I can offer my experiences in the past, taking cows milk and
adjusting protein/fat/sugar levels but I get the feeling from my
readings lately that my previous experiments are complete sh*te and
you probably need to do your own research…

According to Joyce Toomre (Koumiss in Mongol Culture: Past and
present), koumiss nowadays is prepared with 2 starter cultures,
Streptococcus lactis and Lactobacillus bulgaricus… (both cultures
should be available from cheese making supply companies)  I suspect
that a yeast should be involved somewhere but the article does not
mention that.  The Lactobacillus bulgaricus also produces
acetaldehyde (yum!) which is apparently important for the final
flavour.

Streptococcus lactis produces quantities of lactic acid, partially
hydrolyses milk proteins, and increases digestibility of milk.  It
also produces chemicals (bacteriolysins) that inhibits other harmful
micro-organisms.

Lactobacillus bulgaricus has been used to culture yoghurt in Eastern
Europe for a very long time and it's no surprise to see it in Kumiss
cultures... It has similar properties to Streptococcus lactis.

Lactobacillus bulgaricus is used in low fat and fat free yogurt,
while Streptococcus lactis is found in cottage cheese, buttermilk.
Sour cream and such... They produce lactase to convert lactose into
galactose and glucose.  I assume that they then metabolize the
glucose, produce lactic acid (giving that sour taste) as a waste
product.

Horse milk would work great for kumiss because it is VERY high in
lactose giving lots of available glucose...

If you want to culture these babies up yourself (GOOD Luck - your
PHD's in the post), try
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/mar97/853531367.Mi.r.html

A possible candidate for a micro-organism to produce the alcohol is
Zygosaccharomyces florentinus, often found in Kefir cultures,  is a
wild yeast that is big infector of fruit orchards and vineyards.  It
has the same effect as a normal yeast (var sugars -alcohol) but has
a high alcohol tolerance.  You could probably substitute a commercial
brewing yeast with high alcohol tolerance (such as champagne yeast)

As Kefir cultures  often contain some/all of the following:
Streptococcus lactis, Streptococcus cremoris, Streptococcus
diacelilactis, Leuconostoc cremoris, Lactobacillus plantarum
Lactobacillus casei, Saccharomyces florentinus; it might be a good
start for brewing a batch of Kumiss.  Kefir cultures are commonly
available if you know where to look.

Another Kefir page is: http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html
His culture list is EVEN longer but contains Saccharomyces cerevisiae
(and well all know what that is? Right?

I used to believe that just yeast would do it but yeast has a
notorious inability to metabolize lactose. You need some other
culture or an intermediate culture that changes the sugars from
lactose to another sugar (probably Glucose).

Reading again from this article (it's the 1st one in the Bib below)
it mentions 2-2.5% protein, 1-2% fat, 3.5-4.8% milk sugar, 06-1.2%
lactic acid and 1.0-3.0% alcohol.

To summarise:  Kumiss requires yeast to produce the alcohol and some
beneficial bacteria to convert the lactose into glucose for the yeast.

To do a quick redaction, I'd:

*  Add Culture (Lactobacillus bulgaricus, Streptococcus lactis,
   Saccharomyces cerevisiae) to room tempature Mare's Milk.
*  Ferment.  If you didn't have a proper goatskin bag use a cask wine
   bladder with a rubber bung/airlock fitted. Shake/beat regularly.
*  Serve with appropriate food (ask Drake for recipes)

Note: Choose guests (victims) carefully. Try those who aren't
squeemish about their food and drink...

Note, most of this info on cultures has come from about a hours
websurfing at midnight, so dont take it as gospel...

Does the brain hurt yet? Mine does... Ok. Now onto easier stuff?

There are variants made from donkey, cow (Kefir), and camel (shubat)
milk.  A distilled version called arkhi was known but not before the
13-14th century at the very earliest.

The best descriptions of Kumiss in period we have are of the journals
to China by Friar William of Rubruck (before Marco Polo too).  His
complete journal is available on the web (URL available on request).
A section that refers to Kumiss is:

"they stretch above the ground a long rope between two stakes stuck
in the soil; and ... tether to the rope the foals of the mares they
intend to milk. Then the mares stand beside their foals and let
themselves be milked peacefully. In the event of any of them proving
intractable, one man takes the foal and puts it underneath her to let
it suck a little, and then withdraws it while the milker takes its
place. So having collected a great quantity of milk, which when fresh
is as sweet as cow's milk, they pour it into a large skin or bag
[bucellum], and set about churning it with a club which is made for
this purpose, as thick at the lower end as a man's head and hollowed
out. As they stir it rapidly, it begins to bubble like new wine and
to turn sour or ferment, and they keep churning it until they extract
the butter."

Here's more:

Selections from the Tarikh-i-Rashidi by Mirza Muhammad Haidar, Dughlat
(1546-47)

V. [On the medicinal powers of kumys (fermented mare's milk).]

At this time a certain Ahmad Mirza, one of the Timuri Mirzas of the
line of Mirza Shah Rukh, having fled [from his own country] had come
[to Moghuhstan]. He had [with him] a sister, for whom Amir Sayyid Ali
conceived a great affection; so much so that Amir Khudaidad and
others begged her to become Amir Sayyid Ali's wife. She, however,
refused, saying: "I cannot stay in Moghulistan, but if he will
accompany me to my own country, it can be arranged." She then
immediately set out for her own country, accompanied by Amir Sayyid
Ali. When she arrived at Andijan) Mirza Ulugh Beg dispatched a man to
kill Ahmad Mirza, and himself married his sister, at the same time
throwing Amir Sayyid Ali into prison at Samarkand, where he remained
one year. Here he fell sick of dysentery, and when on the point of
dying, Amir Ulugh Beg sent for the doctors, whose remedies, however,
were all without effect. One day somebody brought some kumiz. The
Mirza implored the doctors, saying: "As the medicines have done me no
good, I should much like to try a little kumiz, for which I have a
great craving." They at last agreed [to grant his request] as a
desperate experiment, saying: "It will very likely give him
strength." They then gave him as much kumiz as he wanted, and from
that moment he began to show signs of recovery. On the following day
they gave him some more, and he became perfectly well.

[Sayyid Ali eventually made his way back home, where he became
involved in the ultimately successful rebellion by which Vais Khan,
with Timurid support, seized the throne.] [Ü ]

There is evidence (I have to look more for the references) for a
great silver drinking fountain in Ogedei Khan's (Genghis' 3rd son who
succeeded him) palace at Karakorum:

In the southern section of the main hall was a silver tree-fountain,
crowned with a silver figure of a man blowing a trumpet. At festival
times, a beautiful sound would be heard as four kinds of delicious
drink poured from four dragons' heads facing in four directions from
the trunk of the tree, and flowed down into silver vessels placed
there to receive them.

It dispensed at various times: Rice or Millet Beer, Boal (a kind of
mead), Kumiss, Qaracosmos (another kind of kumiss), terracina (rice
wine) and wine.  What's interesting is that Ogedei Khan died from
alcoholism.  The fountain was built by an goldsmith, William of Paris.

Just found the original here in William Rubruck's Journal:

[The Khan's palace at Karakorum]
Mangu had at Caracarum a great palace, situated next to the city
walls, enclosed within a high wall like those which enclose monks'
priories among us. Here is a great palace, where he has his drinkings
twice a year: once about Easter, when he passes there, and once in
summer, when he goes back (westward). And the latter is the greater
(feast), for then come to his court all the nobles, even though
distant two months journey; and then he makes them largess of robes
and presents, and shows his great glory. There are there many
buildings as long as barns, in which are stored his provisions and
his treasures. In the entry of this great palace, it being unseemly
to bring in there skins of milk and other drinks, master William the
Parisian had made for him a great silver tree, and at its roots are
four lions of silver, each with a conduit through it, and all
belching forth white milk of mares. And four conduits are led inside
the tree to its tops, which are bent downward, and on each of these
is also a gilded serpent, whose tail twines round the tree. And from
one of these pipes flows wine, from another cara cosmos, or clarified
mare's milk, from another bal, a drink made with honey, and from
another rice mead, which is called terracina; and for each liquor
there is a special silver bowl at the foot of the tree to receive it.
Between these four conduits in the top, he made an angel holding a
trumpet, and underneath the tree he made a vault in which a man can
be hid. And pipes go up through the heart of the tree to the angel.
In the first place he made bellows, but they did not give enough
wind. Outside the palace is a cellar in which the liquors are stored,
and there are servants all ready to pour them out when they hear the
angel trumpeting. And there are branches of silver on the tree, and
leaves and fruit. When then drink is wanted, the head butler cries to
the angel to blow his trumpet. Then he who is concealed in the vault,
hearing this blows with all his might in the pipe leading to the
angel, and the angel places the trumpet to his mouth, and blows the
trumpet right loudly. Then the servants who are in the cellar,
hearing this, pour the different liquors into the proper conduits,
and the conduits lead them down into the bowls prepared for that, and
then the butlers draw it and carry it to the palace to the men and
women.

Ok. Now for some references:

The first reference I'd recommend is:

(1994) Milk and Milk Products from Medieval to Modern Times -
Proceedings of the 9th International Conference on Ethnological Food
Research - Edited by Patricia Lysaught.  It contains an
article: "Koumiss in Mongol Culture: Past and present" by Joyce S.
Toomre.

There is also a GREAT website which contains many period texts of
travelers to Mongolia and are available here:

http://depts.washington.edu/uwch/silkroad/texts/texts.html

Great stuff here on central Asian milk stuff:
http://depts.washington.edu/uwch/silkroad/culture/food/food.html

The main Mongolian Cookbook (Yin Shan Cheng Yao) is actually
completely devoid of references to milk products.  Theories here is
that they were 'too mundane' to be mentioned, considered to have no
medicinal qualities at that time/place and thus omitted (unlikely) or
that milk products weren't available in that time/place
(1456/Capital) and were omitted.  Perhaps it was because the author
was Chinese. The recipes themselves record the intrusion of alien
(and some believe unsophisticated) Mongol cookery based on mutton
into  Chinese cuisine.  It was written by Hu Szu-Hui, who probably
came from a bilingual Chinese-Turkic family in northwest China and
who served as imperial dietary physician to several short-lived
descendents of Qubilai Qan in the early 1300s.

Drake.

Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 21:27:42 -0500
From: "Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Fw: [Sca-coks] one of those fermented mare's milk product*s*
To: "SCA-Cooks" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>,	"Stefan"
	<StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>

Here's Paul's answer, Stefen.

> There is straight kumiss, then clarified kumiss. Other milk products
> included various dried kurds, etc. There are also yogurts and sour milk
> products. No idea what any of them taste like. Best things on this are in
> Mongolian and Kazakh. Ayrag is Mongolian for kumiss, which is a Turkic word.
> Paul

Saint Phlip,
CoD

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:17:10 +1030
From: "Craig Jones" <drakey at webone.com.au>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] kumiss
To: "'Cooks wthin the SCA'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>> On Behalf Of Stefan li Rous
>> Drakey commented:
>>> I've just got them eating the nicer recips from ASFTQ and drinking
>>> kumiss (bastardized from Cow's milk). Gerbils? Nyuh...
>> Huh? You got who drinking kumiss? Or is this another "Drakey" story?
>> Did they need to go to the emergency room?

Most people loved it.  One chap at the Brewer's brekfast even had it
with Coco Pops...  The secret is in having a complex culture... Bacteria
to metabolize lactose into glucose (with lactic acid as waste) and yeast
to metabolize glucose into carbon dioxide (with alcohol as waste)...  I
found the best thin is to attempt to mix and match milk types and
lactose powder until you get a liquid that vaguely (from a
protein/fat/lactose) resembles mare's milk and then add an appropriate
culture (some yogurt cultures mixed with a neutral ale yeast) seems to
make a very drinkable product.

There are some rules:

a) NEVER fill a fermenter past half full when brewing it,
b) Keep it agitated during/after fermentation (every few hours),
c) Drink it quickly in your cup as it seems to oxidize quickly...

Drakey.

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 10:33:13 -0500
From: "Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Fw: Fw: [Sca-cooks] one of those fermented mare's milk
	product*s*
To: "SCA-Cooks" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>> By any chance would "ayrag" be borrowed from or to "arrak'?
>> Adamantius

> Could be but arrak also exists in Middle Mongolian at least as a loan word.
> I would have to consult an expert. Ayrag looks like a perfectly good
> Mongolian form to me but it would not be the first time that a loan word has
> been converted into a more familiar form. Paul

Saint Phlip,
CoD

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:25:55 -0500
From: "Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Fw: Fw: [Sca-cooks] one of those fermented mare's milk product*s*
To: "SCA-Cooks" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

More for you, Stefan. I've already told both of them that you were looking
for information for the Florilegium.

> Kumiss, more properly kumys, is fermented mare's milk (or close
> substitute)--the equivalent of beer.  But there are different forms,
> notably white kumys and black kumys--I don't understand the
> distinction.  There are ways of strengthening it, and this is where the
> excitement comes in.  The standard is to distill it, producing airan
> (=airag, and other names).  Possible also to freeze it so the unfrozen
> fraction is more concentrated alcohol-wise.  There should theoretically be
> a yogurt from horse milk, but I don't know any details.
> [Paul] Buell will know more.
> best--Gene A

Saint Phlip,
CoD

From: Craig Jones <drakey at webone.com.au>
Date: February 22, 2005 9:39:28 PM CST
To: StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
Subject: FW: Kumiss (very long)

Hope this helps dude...

Cheers,

Drakey.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: drakemorgan [mailto:drakey at webone.com.au]
> Sent: Thursday, 11 December 2003 12:50 PM
> To: lochac-brewers at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [lochac-brewers] RE: Kumiss (very long)
>
> Drake here...
>
> Greetings Brewers,
>> I have just arranged for some mares milk to be collected for me from my
>> uncles horse stud.
>
> I am supremely jealous…
>
>> Now before a selection of milk iceblocks turn up at my door I require
>> some advice on how to turn it into something drinkable.
>
> That's not so easy…
>
>> What yeast have people used in the past?
>> How long does it brew for?
>> How long before you drink it?
>> How long before it goes off?
>> And anything else you might think is important to know before attempting.
>
> I can offer my experiences in the past, taking cows milk and
> adjusting protein/fat/sugar levels but I get the feeling from my
> readings lately that my previous experiments are complete sh*te and
> you probably need to do your own research…
>
> According to Joyce Toomre (Koumiss in Mongol Culture: Past and
> present), koumiss nowadays is prepared with 2 starter cultures,
> Streptococcus lactis and Lactobacillus bulgaricus… (both cultures
> should be available from cheese making supply companies)  I suspect
> that a yeast should be involved somewhere but the article does not
> mention that.  The Lactobacillus bulgaricus also produces
> acetaldehyde (yum!) which is apparently important for the final
> flavour.
>
> Streptococcus lactis produces quantities of lactic acid, partially
> hydrolyses milk proteins, and increases digestibility of milk.  It
> also produces chemicals (bacteriolysins) that inhibits other harmful
> micro-organisms.
>
> Lactobacillus bulgaricus has been used to culture yoghurt in Eastern
> Europe for a very long time and it's no surprise to see it in Kumiss
> cultures... It has similar properties to Streptococcus lactis.
>
> Lactobacillus bulgaricus is used in low fat and fat free yogurt,
> while Streptococcus lactis is found in cottage cheese, buttermilk.
> Sour cream and such... They produce lactase to convert lactose into
> galactose and glucose.  I assume that they then metabolize the
> glucose, produce lactic acid (giving that sour taste) as a waste
> product.
>
> Horse milk would work great for kumiss because it is VERY high in
> lactose giving lots of available glucose...
>
> If you want to culture these babies up yourself (GOOD Luck - your
> PHD's in the post), try
> http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/mar97/853531367.Mi.r.html
>
> A possible candidate for a micro-organism to produce the alcohol is
> Zygosaccharomyces florentinus, often found in Kefir cultures,  is a
> wild yeast that is big infector of fruit orchards and vineyards.  It
> has the same effect as a normal yeast (var sugars -> alcohol) but has
> a high alcohol tolerance.  You could probably substitute a commercial
> brewing yeast with high alcohol tolerance (such as champagne yeast)
>
> As Kefir cultures  often contain some/all of the following:
> Streptococcus lactis, Streptococcus cremoris, Streptococcus
> diacelilactis, Leuconostoc cremoris, Lactobacillus plantarum
> Lactobacillus casei, Saccharomyces florentinus; it might be a good
> start for brewing a batch of Kumiss.  Kefir cultures are commonly
> available if you know where to look.
>
> Another Kefir page is: http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html
> His culture list is EVEN longer but contains Saccharomyces cerevisiae
> (and well all know what that is? Right?
>
> I used to believe that just yeast would do it but yeast has a
> notorious inability to metabolize lactose. You need some other
> culture or an intermediate culture that changes the sugars from
> lactose to another sugar (probably Glucose).
>
> Reading again from this article (it's the 1st one in the Bib below)
> it mentions 2-2.5% protein, 1-2% fat, 3.5-4.8% milk sugar, 06-1.2%
> lactic acid and 1.0-3.0% alcohol.
>
> To summarise:  Kumiss requires yeast to produce the alcohol and some
> beneficial bacteria to convert the lactose into glucose for the yeast.
>
> To do a quick redaction, I'd:
>
> *  Add Culture (Lactobacillus bulgaricus, Streptococcus lactis,
>    Saccharomyces cerevisiae) to room tempature Mare's Milk.
> *  Ferment.  If you didn't have a proper goatskin bag use a cask wine
>    bladder with a rubber bung/airlock fitted. Shake/beat regularly.
> *  Serve with appropriate food (ask Drake for recipes)
>
> Note: Choose guests (victims) carefully. Try those who aren't
> squeemish about their food and drink...
>
> Note, most of this info on cultures has come from about a hours
> websurfing at midnight, so dont take it as gospel...
>
> Does the brain hurt yet? Mine does... Ok. Now onto easier stuff?
>
> There are variants made from donkey, cow (Kefir), and camel (shubat)
> milk.  A distilled version called arkhi was known but not before the
> 13-14th century at the very earliest.
>
> The best descriptions of Kumiss in period we have are of the journals
> to China by Friar William of Rubruck (before Marco Polo too).  His
> complete journal is available on the web (URL available on request).
> A section that refers to Kumiss is:
>
> "they stretch above the ground a long rope between two stakes stuck
> in the soil; and ... tether to the rope the foals of the mares they
> intend to milk. Then the mares stand beside their foals and let
> themselves be milked peacefully. In the event of any of them proving
> intractable, one man takes the foal and puts it underneath her to let
> it suck a little, and then withdraws it while the milker takes its
> place. So having collected a great quantity of milk, which when fresh
> is as sweet as cow's milk, they pour it into a large skin or bag
> [bucellum], and set about churning it with a club which is made for
> this purpose, as thick at the lower end as a man's head and hollowed
> out. As they stir it rapidly, it begins to bubble like new wine and
> to turn sour or ferment, and they keep churning it until they extract
> the butter."
>
> Here's more:
>
> Selections from the Tarikh-i-Rashidi by Mirza Muhammad Haidar, Dughlat
> (1546-47)
>
> V. [On the medicinal powers of kumys (fermented mare's milk).]
>
> At this time a certain Ahmad Mirza, one of the Timuri Mirzas of the
> line of Mirza Shah Rukh, having fled [from his own country] had come
> [to Moghuhstan]. He had [with him] a sister, for whom Amir Sayyid Ali
> conceived a great affection; so much so that Amir Khudaidad and
> others begged her to become Amir Sayyid Ali's wife. She, however,
> refused, saying: "I cannot stay in Moghulistan, but if he will
> accompany me to my own country, it can be arranged." She then
> immediately set out for her own country, accompanied by Amir Sayyid
> Ali. When she arrived at Andijan) Mirza Ulugh Beg dispatched a man to
> kill Ahmad Mirza, and himself married his sister, at the same time
> throwing Amir Sayyid Ali into prison at Samarkand, where he remained
> one year. Here he fell sick of dysentery, and when on the point of
> dying, Amir Ulugh Beg sent for the doctors, whose remedies, however,
> were all without effect. One day somebody brought some kumiz. The
> Mirza implored the doctors, saying: "As the medicines have done me no
> good, I should much like to try a little kumiz, for which I have a
> great craving." They at last agreed [to grant his request] as a
> desperate experiment, saying: "It will very likely give him
> strength." They then gave him as much kumiz as he wanted, and from
> that moment he began to show signs of recovery. On the following day
> they gave him some more, and he became perfectly well.
>
> [Sayyid Ali eventually made his way back home, where he became
> involved in the ultimately successful rebellion by which Vais Khan,
> with Timurid support, seized the throne.] [Ü ]
>
> There is evidence (I have to look more for the references) for a
> great silver drinking fountain in Ogedei Khan's (Genghis' 3rd son who
> succeeded him) palace at Karakorum:
>
> In the southern section of the main hall was a silver tree-fountain,
> crowned with a silver figure of a man blowing a trumpet. At festival
> times, a beautiful sound would be heard as four kinds of delicious
> drink poured from four dragons' heads facing in four directions from
> the trunk of the tree, and flowed down into silver vessels placed
> there to receive them.
>
> It dispensed at various times: Rice or Millet Beer, Boal (a kind of
> mead), Kumiss, Qaracosmos (another kind of kumiss), terracina (rice
> wine) and wine.  What's interesting is that Ogedei Khan died from
> alcoholism.  The fountain was built by an goldsmith, William of Paris.
>
> Just found the original here in William Rubruck's Journal:
>
> [The Khan's palace at Karakorum]
> Mangu had at Caracarum a great palace, situated next to the city
> walls, enclosed within a high wall like those which enclose monks'
> priories among us. Here is a great palace, where he has his drinkings
> twice a year: once about Easter, when he passes there, and once in
> summer, when he goes back (westward). And the latter is the greater
> (feast), for then come to his court all the nobles, even though
> distant two months journey; and then he makes them largess of robes
> and presents, and shows his great glory. There are there many
> buildings as long as barns, in which are stored his provisions and
> his treasures. In the entry of this great palace, it being unseemly
> to bring in there skins of milk and other drinks, master William the
> Parisian had made for him a great silver tree, and at its roots are
> four lions of silver, each with a conduit through it, and all
> belching forth white milk of mares. And four conduits are led inside
> the tree to its tops, which are bent downward, and on each of these
> is also a gilded serpent, whose tail twines round the tree. And from
> one of these pipes flows wine, from another cara cosmos, or clarified
> mare's milk, from another bal, a drink made with honey, and from
> another rice mead, which is called terracina; and for each liquor
> there is a special silver bowl at the foot of the tree to receive it.
> Between these four conduits in the top, he made an angel holding a
> trumpet, and underneath the tree he made a vault in which a man can
> be hid. And pipes go up through the heart of the tree to the angel.
> In the first place he made bellows, but they did not give enough
> wind. Outside the palace is a cellar in which the liquors are stored,
> and there are servants all ready to pour them out when they hear the
> angel trumpeting. And there are branches of silver on the tree, and
> leaves and fruit. When then drink is wanted, the head butler cries to
> the angel to blow his trumpet. Then he who is concealed in the vault,
> hearing this blows with all his might in the pipe leading to the
> angel, and the angel places the trumpet to his mouth, and blows the
> trumpet right loudly. Then the servants who are in the cellar,
> hearing this, pour the different liquors into the proper conduits,
> and the conduits lead them down into the bowls prepared for that, and
> then the butlers draw it and carry it to the palace to the men and
> women.
>
> Ok. Now for some references:
>
> The first reference I'd recommend is:
>
> (1994) Milk and Milk Products from Medieval to Modern Times -
> Proceedings of the 9th International Conference on Ethnological Food
> Research - Edited by Patricia Lysaught.  It contains an
> article: "Koumiss in Mongol Culture: Past and present" by Joyce S.
> Toomre.
>
> There is also a GREAT website which contains many period texts of
> travellers to Mongolia and are available here:
>
> http://depts.washington.edu/uwch/silkroad/texts/texts.html
>
> Great stuff here on central Asian milk stuff:
> http://depts.washington.edu/uwch/silkroad/culture/food/food.html
>
> The main Mongolian Cookbook (Yin Shan Cheng Yao) is actually
> completely devoid of references to milk products.  Theories here is
> that they were 'too mundane' to be mentioned, considered to have no
> medicinal qualities at that time/place and thus omitted (unlikely) or
> that milk products weren't available in that time/place
> (1456/Capital) and were omitted.  Perhaps it was because the author
> was Chinese. The recipes themselves record the intrusion of alien
> (and some believe unsophisticated) Mongol cookery based on mutton
> into  Chinese cuisine.  It was written by Hu Szu-Hui, who probably
> came from a bilingual Chinese-Turkic family in northwest China and
> who served as imperial dietary physician to several short-lived
> descendents of Qubilai Qan in the early 1300s.
>
> I know it probably doesn't help but I'd thought I'd let you know that
> I'm even more in the dark about Kumiss than I used to be!
>
> Sorry for the huge ramble, I hope some have found it vaguely
> interesting...  Should I write this into an article for the next BVI
> newsletter?
>
> Cheers,
> Drake.

Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 00:36:29 -0400
From: "marilyn traber 011221" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] milking animals
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Lol. Well, it could be worse. From my kumiss-msg file:
>
> -----
> I have a friend who's family raises Shires, the biggest horse in existence,
> but she has yet to talk her father into milking one of them. This is
> a daunting task on even a horse as small as the ones common to the
> steppe, and even more so on one as large as a Shire. She once told
> me of a foal their mare had that stood nearly eleven hands at birth.
> That's a big  baby.
>
> Corun
> -----
>
> Stefan

Actually, I'd sooner milk a Shire than a pony ;-) Shires and the other big
draft breeds are pretty calm and tolerant, and generally easy to work with,
other than having a tendency to want to lean on you and fall asleep when
you're trying to shoe them. Smaller horses, particularly ponies, tend to be
the ones that want to kick the bejezus out of you, among other reasons,
because they're so small, no one thinks to train and discipline them  
properly.

And, I've worked with sheep. Remind me, some time, to tell you about  
trimming their hooves as part of my training as a farrier...

Phlip

From the fb "SCA-Cooks" group:

Mike Raney
September 10 at 3:09pm
So I'm about 24 hours into my first experiment with making airag/kumis. I mixed 1 tsp yeast into 1/2c simple syrup. Combined that lukewarm solution into .8 liters of 85 degree 1% milk. I've poured it between two containers probably 20x and so far it's looking promising.
I used cows milk mixed with the simple syrup to simulate the higher lactose and lower fat content of mares milk.
Any thoughts, experiences, or knowledge about how it's supposed to taste?

Ken Wilson 
Did you make your simple syrup with lactose, or with sucrose? And did you use regular Saccharomyces yeast, or did you use a lactobaccilus yeast?
September 10 at 3:12pm

Mike Raney 
Sucrose and bakers yeast.
September 10 at 3:16pm

Mike Raney 
Ok, so I just tasted it and have decided to pull it for sealing and cooling. The results are a bready, medium bodied chardonnay-esque beverage with a light sparkle (which I imagine will increase in the sealed bottle as it cools). 

I pulled it after 1 day vs 2 days because I believe that the introduction of such a large amount of yeast sped the process up greatly vs using wild yeast.
September 10 at 3:20pm

Mike Raney 
In my next experiment I will introduce a bit of yogurt into the milk mixture as well to see what that changes, as that recipe would be Isgelen tarag instead of Airag.
September 10 at 3:22pm

Anna Krupitsky 
Most commercially produced kumis is cow based one, and manufacturers add vitamin C to it to mimic mares kumis. 
200 mg of Vit. C per 16 oz of liquid.
September 10 at 3:53pm

Craig Jones 
I'm cooking a feast tomorrow night - poke me next week. However, I usually make mine from adding extra lactose to cows milk, works with horses milk and even dried horses milk. I use a lactobacillus and a Saccharomyces working in unison. Usually I aim for a drinking yoghurt culture so it doesn't clabber up too quick.

If you use horses milk, the lack of k-casein keeps it liquid for much, much longer.

My apprentice (Natalie Aked) has embedded at article I wrote on Kumiss a few years back here - http://mongolmusings.weebly.com/the-red-jade-houses-guide...

It's flawed on many levels but for the most part, it's 'okay'

The trick is to have both a lactic acid bacteria (to make glucose, lactic acid; and a sacchromyces to rob the glocose) - this produces a feed-forward reaction thats efficient in stripping lactose from milk.

Joyce Tombes (going from memory here) has a good article on Kumiss cultures in the 3rd Symposium of historical milk and milk products (again going from memory) - I can post more after the weekend...
September 10 at 4:23pm

Isabell Winter 
Thanks to several conversations with Craig Jones I made kumis for some recent royals at an event. I milked two of my mares who still had foals at foot, over 3 days, refrigerating the milk between milkings then based on various information that I had been directed to, bought a drinking yogurt culture from a place here in New Zealand which you can also buy on line - a lot of cheese making supply shops will have available. This was a bifidobacterium species, lactobacillus acidophilus and Streptococcus thermopiles mix culture. When I had enough, I bought the milk up to approximately 35 deg C then added the yeast and culture. I then used a beer yeast as I was advised not to use brewers yeast. As I was only making a very small quantity due to mares being close to weaning foals and very small milk production, I collected approximately 300ml. I used only a very small amount of yeast and culture (based on my cheese making experience), placed in a ziplock back which I could then agitate regularly. I also placed this bag initially in a yogurt maker set up to maintain some warmth due to it nearly being winter here at the time (and from cheese making experience ideas). Agitating the bag every time I went past it. This was then presented and drunk on day 5. While very young it was drinkable and was comparible to that which some people had previously drunk made in the steeps. Key first thing was should not smell like blue cheese (my didn't) and the taste was like a slightly fizzy milky substance with a slight yogurty after taste. Other things to note - it was not thickened at all and not chunky, a very liquid drink. Mares milk is very warm when it is milked directly from a mare which was another reason I warmed it before adding the yeast and culture - which you need to do for cheese making to activate the culture. I then kept the remainder that was not drunk for a further few months in the bag, continuing to shake when I remembered. After 3 months it was still liquid but had started to get a more potent smell so I discarded, but hey it was for science smile emoticon
September 10 at 6:44pm

Mike Raney 
Update: I found the first batch ( without lacto cultures)to be drinkable but very boring all the while I was pining for a little more tartness. My new batch (1 liter milk heated to 100f , 2 tbs water diluting 1/4 c sucrose with 1 tsp yeast, and 1 tbs tart yogurt) is tasting great, it's perfectly tart, good mouthfeel, no cheesiness, the alcohol is noticeable but just as an element rather than the main flavor like the first batch, overall very nice.
September 12 at 7:17am

From the fb "Known World Cheesemakers" group:

Donna Green-Tye
September 26 at 11:46 PM

My sweetie has found a possible source for dried mare's milk and dried camel's milk. I think I'll get some and add it to my cheese making.

Donna Green-Tye
https://cortibrothers.com/collections/miscellaneous/products/

SAUMAL Freeze Dried Mare’s Milk 200g

Donna Green-Tye
https://cortibrothers.com/.../pro.../saubota-camel-milk-200g

SAUBOTA Freeze Dried Camel's Milk 200g

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