fur-msg - 5/5/19

Use of fur in period. How to work with it in the SCA. Fake fur. Dyeing fur.
What to do with scraps of fur.

NOTE: See also the files: textiles-msg, velvet-msg, horn-msg, ivory-msg, leather-msg, leather-dyeing-msg, parchment-msg, feathers-msg, cloaks-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:42:53 EST
From: LRSTCS <LRSTCS at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Fake fur references & techniques

Here's the references I mentioned.

Swedish Handcraft by Anna-Maja Nyle'n, ISBN 91-7114-220-7

Looks like a coffee table book but actually has a lot of neat info on feasting
customs, early scandanavian ways of life, trade routes etc., also has
woodworking, metal working, notes on castle inventories etc.

Russian type hat-fake fur technique

Handwoven Magazine by Interweave press issue jan/Feb 1994, Fleece-edged Hat

With a few minor changes - color selection, etc. - has lots of possibilites
for a period hat.

Magge


Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:35:00 -0600
From: KATHARINE WHISLER <kwhisler at kentlaw.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Dyeing Fur

Yve asked about dyeing fur.

Fur is protein, so you can use the same type of dye you use to dye wool or
silk.  However, you don't want to ruin the skin, so you should avoid using
any type of dye that you need to boil.  Your best bet would be dye that
works for feathers or leather.  Check the local Tandy store for leather
dyes, or try the type of "French" alcohol & water dyes used for silk
painting.  I know these work for feathers, they should work for fur as well.

--Kathy/Katerina


From: N56MTred at aol.com
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 00:39:00 EST
Subject: Rabbit lined cloaks
To: stefan at florilegium.org

Hi - I visited your web site in search of info about cloaks and read about 
someone having a problem with trying to line a cloak with rabbit fur.  
Basically she was afraid the leather of the rabbit would not be strong enough 
to fit around the shoulders and would tear over time.  This supposition is 
true.  Quilting was suggested by someone and this will work fairly well - 
subject to how well the quilting is done.  There is an alternative to 
quilting - use the new type of iron on interfacing pelon that is readily 
available in several weights at almost any fabric store. The leather will 
take the heat necessary to bond the material if applied according to standard 
directions. I have found that applying the pelon before cutting and sewing 
works best. I have recycled old fur coats purchased at rummage sales and 
secondhand clothing stores using this method with good results. This method 
also helps keep the fur from shedding if it is old, poorly tanned, or has 
been stored improperly.

Hope this information can be of use to some of your readers.

Sincerely,
   Nanzy Chandler-Brown


Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:49:40 -0800
From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: SC - fleece cleaning

[the question was how to rejuvinate a matted, worn fleece that might
not make it through the clothes washer again]

I've been advised that you shampoo the fur side with baby shampoo, let
it dry, then rub lots of mink oil or other conditioner into the skin
side.

Selene


From: mikea at mikea.ath.cx (Mike Andrews)
Subject: Re: Uses for sheepskin scraps and rabbit skins
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: Department of Forensic Thaumaturgy, Miskatonic University, Arkham, MA
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 00:53:39 GMT

Nomad in Starkhafn <NomadNStarkhafnNOSPAM at aol.com> wrote:
: Okay, I've got 5 white(ish) rabbit skins and some sheepskin scraps
: (some of the scraps are fairly long). Any ideas what to use them for?
: I'm just looking for ideas (SCA related of course) and I'd appreciate
: it. Many thanks in advance. :-)

You can cook down odd scraps to make hide glue. It takes a 
while and may not emit the most pleasant odors, but it's a 
useful glue. A crock pot will be useful here. 

A quick Google search on "making hide glue" was very productive,
and here are a _few_ of the resulting URLs:

<http://www.redrival.com/knapanon/glue.html>
<http://www.uqac.uquebec.ca/PleinAir/toolsgl1.htm>
<http://www.artrans.com/rmsg/_newsgroups/toolsgl1.htm> 
                (also has info on making bone needles)
<http://www.vanedwar.dircon.co.uk/glue.htm>
                The Glue FAQ -- with info on using hide glue
<http://www.his.com/~tom/sca/glue.html>
                Pointers to Cennini's and Theophilous' books.
                I have Cennini's, and strongly recommend it. 
<http://www.florilegium.org/files/CRAFTS/glues-msg.html>
                This Florilegium article has posts from some folks
                whom I _very_ highly respect, including Balderik, 
                Iolo, Diarmuid ui Duinn, and Thomas Peregrinus. 

-- 
Mike Andrews    /       Michael Fenwick         Namron, Ansteorra
mikea at mikea.ath.cx
Tired old music Laurel since 1986


From: inge <lyorn at gmx.de>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Uses for sheepskin scraps and rabbit skins
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 03:34:38 +0200

Nomad in Starkhafn wrote:
> Okay, I've got 5 white(ish) rabbit skins and some sheepskin scraps
> (some of the scraps are fairly long). Any ideas what to use them for?
> I'm just looking for ideas (SCA related of course) and I'd appreciate
> it. Many thanks in advance. :-)

Fur trim on cloaks or other winter garb. (If you have winter in Caid ;-)

inge


From: "Ken Koll aka Lord Valdis of Gotland" <lvaldis at mail.cvn.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Uses for sheepskin scraps and rabbit skins
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 23:24:50 -0400

> Nomad in Starkhafn wrote:
> > Okay, I've got 5 white(ish) rabbit skins and some sheepskin scraps
> > (some of the scraps are fairly long). Any ideas what to use them for?
> > I'm just looking for ideas (SCA related of course) and I'd appreciate
> > it. Many thanks in advance. :-)

pouches, favors, trim, finger puppets, outfit a group in tuchux garb (that
many skins should do at least a dozen woman or a dozen and a half men),
chair padding, bedspread, chair covering, shawl or cloak...I am still
thinking but these should keep you busy.  Only make glue if fur is nasty
nasty, hide glue is not expensive and can be bought.  Have fun.

Lord Valdis of Gotland


From: "james rich" <7152 at cableone.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Uses for sheepskin scraps and rabbit skins
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 22:05:36 -0500

If the scraps are not large enough to trim a cloak or adult garb, use them
to trim a child's or even a doll's garb, or perhaps as trim for an accessory
such as a pouch.  Do you have enough to make a collar and/or cuffs? If you
just have tiny scraps, how about paintbrushes?  Hmm...

AElfwenna


Subject: [Ansteorra] Period furs- long
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:43:50 -0600
From: "C. Weed" <cweed at austin.rr.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>

Colete penned:

Switching gears here... Common sense tells me
that if the cat was skinned then the fur might
have been used for lining tunics, cloaks, and
various other parts of clothing. How true is
this? (I've always imagine lining as bunny fur.)
*******

My research in this area is very limited as I try to stick to the timeframes
with which I'm most enamored: 1430-1495 in southern France and what is now
Germany, and more recently 1560-1570 in Holland.

Strictly using paintings and written sources, fur almost never appears as a
lining of even the lower or middle class citizens in the Burgundian era.
Squirrel seems to be the most predominant fur for lining the heavy outer
garments for the upper class.  Ermine is generally used for garments of
ceremony, although it can be seen in some upper-class garments (see van Eyks
"Arnolfini Wedding" or "St. Jerome at His Study" dated 1434 and 1441,
respectively).  These examples of a slickish white fur *could* be a
depiction of rabbit but I find it unlikely due to the remarkable fragility
of rabbit skin on the whole and the implication of status that ermine in the
white brings.

In contrast, ermine is not often found in Dutch portraiture of a hundred
years later, being seen nearly exclusively on court and (less commonly)
clerical vestments.  On the rare occasions that the lower class is depicted
with a fur lined garment at all (see Breughels "Peasant Dance") the garment
appears to be either a cast off or worn out trapping of a wealthier previous
owner.

Whenever the question of what fur to use pops up, keep in mind the capacity
in which it will be used.  If it's for Duchess Politicalmarriage, then it's
likely to be rare and expensive and hard to acquire.  Ever try to nab a
squirrel without a shotgun?  The clever little buggers learn about traps
quickly... and ermine are even worse being even smaller and in the weasel
family.  Squirrel is the more durable of the two- what a coincidence that we
see it on a lot of outdoor scenes.  My wife is about to undertake the
construction of a mens houppelande entirely lined in squirrel and guesses at
around 125 of the little devils are going to have to join in and help- I'll
let you speculate on what it would take in ermine at 1/4 the size.

It just isn't practical for the commoner to wear fur, even when there are no
ordinances against it.  You can't wear it when you're hot.  It stinks when
it's wet.  It gets stiff.  In order to get it to last you have to wear the
furs that aren't all that much to look at.  You might as well wear wool...
so they did.  The exceptions seem to be mittens and hats.  Requiring less
fur to make as well as fur that is not as fine, we see both of these items
in abundance in the art of both of these timeframes.  Stiffness in a hat is
often desirable.  Here, if anywhere, is where you might see rabbit fur, what
with it's ready availability to the lower classes everywhere in Europe.

As a final related note, animal *tails* are often seen dangling from the
clothing and belts and sundry possessions of sca-ers.  In both the periods I
mention, having animal tails depending from you or your possessions is an
indicator to those around you that you are either an invalid or insane or in
some other way not suited for any other task than begging for alms.  (see
Brueghels "Battle Between Carnival and Lent" or "The Cripples" for details)


Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Period furs- short rebuttal
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:32:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Holly Frantz <hefrantz at yahoo.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>

For two examples of animal tails and parts (not
necessarily ermine) in period portraiture, please see:

Family of Uberto de' Sacrati, c. 1480, possibly a family of idiots?
Man with a Golden Paw, c. 1527, may be a real paw, may be jewelry

Both available at the web gallery of art.
http://gallery.euroweb.hu/

Niccola Setaro


Subject: RE: [Ansteorra] Period furs- short rebuttal
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 00:25:23 -0600
From: "C. Weed" <cweed at austin.rr.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>

Niccola Setaro penned:
For two examples of animal tails and parts (not
necessarily ermine) in period portraiture, please see:

Family of Uberto de' Sacrati, c. 1480, possibly a family of idiots?
Man with a Golden Paw, c. 1527, may be a real paw, may be jewelry

Both available at the web gallery of art.

http://gallery.euroweb.hu/

***********

In the family portrait you refer to, the prominent 'danglies' depending from
the upper sleeves of both father and son are not, in point of fact, animal
tails.  Rather, they are thick cloth points used to attach the outer sleeves
(obviously not pictured here).  The wide bow-tie type points first appear on
the fashion scene around the time of this portrait (c. 1480)and can widely
be seen up through the cavalier period.  Ghirlandaios "Herrods Banquet" has
several examples of that same strange mid-sleeve placement. Other examples
of points of a similar thickness can be found at the site you mentioned in
the following portraiture (I didn't get past the letter 'D' in the 1550s but
I think this will do for a start):

1470-1500
BOLTRAFFIO, Giovanni Antonio "Portrait of a Young Woman"
BOTTICELLI, Sandro "Portrait of an Unknown Personage with the Medal of
Cosimo il Vecchio"
COSTA, Lorenzo "Portrait of a Woman"
TURA, Cosme "Portrait of a Young Man"

1500-1550
BORGOÑA, Juan de "Lady with a Hare"
BRONZINO, Agnolo "Lucrezia Panciatichi"
DÜRER, Albrecht "Portrait of a Young Venetian Woman"

I would like to add my own short qualifiers, however, concerning tails and
fur:

Firstly, that ermine tails seem to have always been outside the regular
implication that other animal tails seem to represent.  Their tiny black dot
seems to consistently have been just the chic addition to judicial and royal
robes from the 1300s onwards.

Secondly, that fox seems to have risen sharply in popularity in the 16th
century (but only readily available to the upper and upper-middle class yet
again).  Fox tails, however, still indicate that the wearer is drooling on
the church steps.

Lastly, that as Lady Niccola pointed towards already, there became in the
late 15th century and all through the 16th century an affinity for other
animal bits to be gilded and trussed with loot and toted about as jewelry.
Heads and feet seem to be the rule on these morbid little treasures.
Although not represented on the Web Gallery of Art, Moroni did a wonderful
portrait of a lady in pink (recently on display in Dallas) with what can
only be described as The Great Gilded Weasel Head of Gaud.  It's creepy and
cool, all in one... kind of Addams Family meets the Medici Family.

Sir Dieterich


Subject: RE: [Ansteorra] Period furs- short rebuttal
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 06:29:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Holly Frantz <hefrantz at yahoo.com>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>

Sir Dietrich, I'm sorry but I have to disagree with
you.  I'm familiar with all of the portraits that
you've mentioned and I've looked at them again.  In
these portraits, these ties are obviously attached to
the top or shoulder of the outer garment.  Now, that
shoulder may actually extend half-way down the arm so
that it appears that the ties are attached on the arm
itself but they are really attached to the outer
garment and don't extend from the arm of the shirt or
chemise.  In most of these portraits it's also very
easy to see that what is depicted is a wide ribbon or
tie.

The only portrait that has clothes and ties that bear
a resemblence to the family portrait I mentioned is
Tura's "Portrait of a Young Man".  Though, if they are
the same, then the unknown artist of Uberto de'
Sacrati's family did an exceedinly poor job of
rendering the ties, choosing to make them all a
stylized shape and hanging as if they had a certain
amount of weight and not free-hanging ribbons or ties.


Subject: [Ansteorra] Period furs- long
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:57:17 -0600
From: Alexandria Doyle <dragonlair at wireweb.net>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>

> These examples of a slickish white fur *could* be a
> depiction of rabbit but I find it unlikely due to the remarkable fragility
> of rabbit skin on the whole and the implication of status that ermine in the
> white brings.

In the inventories of Queen Elizabeth, there are records of rabbit fur
being used for linings and trimming for her gowns.  Sable, ermine and
varieties of rabbit were the most common, also used were mink and
squirrel, with lettice, lamb and wolf used infrequently.  There is also
mention of sable being used for tippets which were worn around the neck
and shoulders.

Alexandria


Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 20:21:48 -0400
From: Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue at thibault.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Garb materials: fur

If you're looking to add fur trim or lining to garb, a post on the 
Historic Costume list told us the keywords to look for on eBay: "fur 
cutter."  Lots of different coats & whatnot, with holes or rips, for 
around $5-$10 each.

cv


Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:29:17 -0700
From: "Christine Taylor" <christine at ctaylor-co.com>
Subject: RE: [SCA-AS] Which fur?
To: "'Arts and Sciences in the SCA'"

European beaver fur was used in these gowns. American beaver (hopefully
faux!) can substitute nicely for the now-rare fur. 

Caitlin

-----Original Message-----
From: Anna Troy
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:10 PM
To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA
Subject: [SCA-AS] Which fur?

I'm planning on making a Burgundian dress and I was
jus wondering what types of furs where used except
squirrel and ermine. Not sure where to look for more
info on Medieval fur usage.

Anna de Byxe


Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:38:56 -0400
From: rmhowe <MMagnusM at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Which fur?
To: Arts and Sciences in the SCA <artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org>

Anna Troy wrote:
<<< I'm planning on making a Burgundian dress and I was jus wondering
what types of furs where used except squirrel and ermine. Not sure
where to look for more info on Medieval fur usage.

Thanks in advance, Anna de Byxe >>>

Cameron, Esther: Leather and Fur;
   	Archetype Publications for the Archaeological Leather Group, 1998 x
101p.
	Paperback, ISBN: 1873132514
	“A collection of papers on two key commodities whose importance for
early medieval 	trade and craft is often masked by the lack of organics
surviving in the archaeological 	record. Contents: Leather working
processes by Roy Thomson;
	Hides, Horns and Bones by Arthur MacGregor;
	The search for Anglo-Saxon skin garments and the documentary evidence
by Gale 			Owen-Crocker);
	Pre-conquest leather on English book-bindings, arms and armour AD
400-1100 by
		Esther Cameron;
	The leather finds from Rouen and Saint-Denis by Véronique Motembault;
	Trading in fur, from classical antiquity to the early Middle Ages by
James Howard-			Johnston);
	Animal bones from the Viking town of Birka, Sweden by Bengt Wigh;
	The British beaver: Fur, fact and fantasy by James Spriggs.
	Ł 16.50 (approx. US$ 23.89) plus shipping.


Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:49:17 GMT
From: "silveroak at juno.com" <silveroak at juno.com>
Subject: Re: [SCA-AS] Which fur?
To: artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org

Greetings!

Funny, we had a similar discussion on the Medieval beast list a few months back....

<<< Would Muscrat have been a possible fur choice in Russia or 
Western Europe? >>>

Only after the New World was discovered; muskrat is a new World species.

<<< I figure that Rabbit fur would work also. >>>

It has a different consistency than beaver, but beaver's expensive (I paid $35 for a beaver fur about 4-5 years back, as opposed to $3 each for rabbit last year).

Martin and ermine would also work, and they're Old World.  Believe it or not, vole and mole and mouse are *excellent* choices, even though you have to sew a bunch of the little varmints together.  I won't mention cat, though it was probably used in the cat-hating periods in Europe.

Raccoon, opossum, and skunk were also trapped once the New World was discovered, but their fur's not as good.  If you can find someone selling fisher fur, that would be a good substitute, but again New World.

-Carowyn, again spouting trivia from her trapping days


Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 08:16:40 -0400
From: "Saint Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT Air Mattress (was Pennsic Pity Party)
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On 6/1/06, Micaylah <dy018 at ncf.ca> wrote:
> Actually I could just sit in my backyard and wait for bambi to saunter by. I
> live in a city but my house is on a hydro corridor that leads to the Ottawa
> River. When the coyotes and wolves aren't around the deer and bunnies come
> back. (if I could just stop stepping on the babies in the grass- twice this
> week!)
>
> There is also a deer farm just outside of Ottawa that I use as my venison
> source. I wonder if he sells hides? I cant imagine him allowing them to go
> to waste. tsk tsk
>
> Micaylah

DON'T try to use deer hide with the hair on. Because of the nature of the
hair, it will shed...and shed, and shed, and shed, and shed. Other critters
are fine, because the construction of their hides and the hair is different-
you'd love a bear hide, for example, although it's a bit heavy- but on
deer hide is out. I mean, those of us who have cats are used to everything
we own having cat hair on it. A deer hide is MUCH worse, and will shed a bit
at a time, for years, until it is bald. There's a definite reason Natvie
Americans used buck SKINS, not buck FURS.
-- 
Saint Phlip (leathersmith, among other thjings...)


Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 13:10:58 -0600 (CST)
From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" <pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Description of the Beaver

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010, Daniel & Elizabeth Phelps wrote:
<<< Is the in period beaver of Europe and the British Isles the same as those 
found in North America?  I know that their squirrels and deer were different 
from those of the eastern seaboard  as were, I think, the wolves.

Daniel >>>

The European beaver is Castor fiber, the American beaver is Castor 
canadensis. Apparently the European beaver has a slimmer tail and narrower 
skull than its American cousin. Beavers are order Rodentia.

As for deer, Cervus elaphus is the European red deer, Cervus canadensis is 
the American elk--it used to be Cervus elaphus canadensis. Alces alces is 
the American moose and the Eurasian elk. Moose, elk, white-tails, mule 
deer, roe deer, fallow deer, (and also caribou and reindeer) are all 
family Cervidae.

The grey squirrels imported from Norway in the MA were not the grey 
squirrel we have here, but both grey wolves and red foxes are the same 
here and there. Squirrels are family Sciuirdae, foxes and wolves are 
family Canidae.

I've been doing a lot of research on the appropriate uses and types of 
fur in medieval times--I could bore you to tears with an extensive list of 
medievally important critters and how they differ from the US versions if 
you really want. ;-)

Margaret FitzWilliam


From the FB "SCA Garb" group:
1/9/13
Margaret Plunk
I'm looking for anyone experienced in working with fur. Specifically Asian possum (old, dry, rotted in places) and rabbit (new). An associate of mine in the Celtic Society is looking to repair a hat.
near Sweet Lips, TN

Maegwyn Verch Bleddyn 
I'm currently working on a project that involves sewing a lot of odd shaped pieces of fur. The biggest thing I'm finding is that cutting is easiest when done from the back with a small sharp knife so as to cut only the skin, not the hair. Sewing is tricky, but this is what I do: first I spritz a little water onto the hair and smooth it away from the edges I want to sew together, then I line up the edges and use small binder clips to hold them together, finally I sew the pieces together using an overcast stitch, spaced a little wider then I would on fabric (needle holes weaken the skin). After I've sewn the pieces together, I steam it just slightly and then use a soft bristle cat brush to brush the whole piece.

Aspasia Moonwind 
One of my apprentices does fur. She said to sew bias tape to the edges and sew this together. Makes less stress on the skin. Look inside fur coats and you will see this is what was done.

Salli Weston 
Maegwyn gave great tips. Use mink oil or the like on the skins to soften them up. I use a buttonhole rather than an overcast stitch because I feel it is stronger but that is really just personal preference. On larger pieces I pad stitch the fur to an lining, usually linen, That gives the fur more structure. I would be tempted to do the same on a older fur because of it's fragility. I also use tape on the edge and then whipstitch that to the cloth part of my project. That allows me to remove it for cleaning. Lastly, do not apply lip balm when working with fur. It will attract every bit of fur in a tri-state region to your face and you will regret it. :-)

Carol Carson 
Sewing to a lining using long stitches is my preferred method. If fur gets caught in the seam, I use a fairly blunt needle inserted unger the "caught" fur to gently pull it to the right side.

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	fur-msg	Page 2 of 11