Title: poisons-msg
Subject: Medieval poisons and antidotes
Author: Edited by Mark S. Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: poison, assasination, herb, medieval

poisons-msg – 11/4/17

Medieval poisons.

NOTE: See also the files: poisons-art, p-medicine-msg, herbs-msg, spices-msg, p-herbals-msg, mandrake-art, rue-msg, Pest-Control-art.

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Poisons
Date: 12 Jul 1994 10:41:30 -0400
Organization: the internet

Mikjal Annarbjorn writes:

 > I'd have thought that digitalis (nightshade) would be another "fast-acting"
 > poison. Could it be produced in quantity in period?

Gentle Lord,
You have confused two _distinct_ poisons. Both were known in period.

The plant known as digitalis in Latin, on account of it's finger-shaped
flowers, was known as foke's glove (foke = a kind of sprite) in English. This
name has since become foxglove, the present English name for this ornamental
plant. It is found in many gardens and contains four alkaloids, all of which
are toxic. The plant is deadly. It is also grown for medicinal purposes, the
alkaloids being useful medicines in tiny, accurately measured, and prescribed
doses. This is the source of the alkaloid digitalis, so beneficial in cases of
heart disease. In the Middle Ages and Renaisance, it was given to treat edema
without knowledge of the connection between edema and heart disease.

Nightshade, properly speaking, is the name of a family of plants including
potatoes and tomatoes in addition to deadly nightshade, the namesake of the
group. This plant is also known as belladonna, or "beautiful lady": a tincture
of the leaves was put into the eyes so that the pupils would dilate and make
the eyes appear larger. This plant yields a dangerous narcotic and
hallucinogenic substance, also known as belladonna, responsible for the
dilation of the pupils. In all but the smallest quantities, it may be fatal.

Other well known toxic plants used in period included monkshood, henbane, and
mistletoe.

Beorthwine of Grafham Wood

From: ayotte at milo.NOdak.EDU (Robert Arthur Ayotte)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Poisons
Date: 12 Jul 1994 20:12:01 -0400
Organization: North Dakota State University ACM, Fargo ND

In article <9407121432.AA07172 at hal.physics.wayne.edu> you wrote:

: Nightshade, properly speaking, is the name of a family of plants including
: potatoes and tomatoes in addition to deadly nightshade, the namesake of the
: group. This plant is also known as belladonna, or "beautiful lady": a tincture
: of the leaves was put into the eyes so that the pupils would dilate and make
: the eyes appear larger. This plant yields a dangerous narcotic and
: hallucinogenic substance, also known as belladonna, responsible for the
: dilation of the pupils. In all but the smallest quantities, it may be fatal.

Actually that family is known as Solanaceae formally (see Linnaeus).  The
berry is part used to make both the poison and the dye.  When unripe the
berry has a protective alkaloid poison (not narcotic or hallucinogenic) that
can be extracted but is known for it's tasteless ness but is
very slow working and can take repeated applications to be effective, and
it leaves a notable sign on the body.
	Like many plants the toxins change from different stages of growth.
The RIPE berries are harmeless, and actually quite good to eat.  The problem
comes when you get a few green berries mixed in with the ripe.  There was a
town that had been growing them and called deadly nightshade "wonderberry"
and was the favorite local berry for pies and preserves.
	Also the dye for eye came from the berry, it turns the white of the
eye purple and the residual alkaloids do tend to dialate the eye as well.
Since these dyes were from the ripe berry they were not poison, but could
cause irritation and swelling of the bloodvessels in the eye making it
look quite bloodshot.

: Other well known toxic plants used in period included monkshood, henbane, and
: mistletoe.

: Beorthwine of Grafham Wood

	Oh, and the Romans were quite advanced in herbalistic poisons.  I
think it was wolfsbane that was used to kill Germanicus by his son Caligula.

	Of note they also had many remidies for these poisons as well.

	Mistletoe is one of the most deadly listed here.

Horace of Northshield

From: RONDEAUB at ropt1.am.wyeth.COM (Ben Rondeau)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Poisons....
Date: 14 Jul 1994 14:13:34 -0400
Organization: the internet

Good day to the folks of the Rialto:

I've been following the 'Poisons' thread here, and would like
to make a comment before anyone goes out and tries to grow
some of the plants mentioned (belladonna, henbane, foxglove,
etc.) RESEARCH YOUR LOCAL AND STATE LAWS FIRST!!! Also, some
plants contain alkaloids that are on the Schedule  of
controlled substances, and possession of ANY amount of these
plants can lead to prosecution.

Some states have laws against the cultivation of ANY
"dangerous" plants, so please.....check the regs first.

A lot of these plants are sold as ornamentals, ie, you can buy
foxglove at the local K-Mart here in Northern NY and castor
plants (from whence comes castor oil and ricinine, a powerful
poison) from the local Agway, so , in an area that permits
them, they can be grown. (Hopefully, only for their curiousity
value!!!)

Addition to the list of poisonous plants...how about
bittersweet nightshade? This little wonder grows wild here
along streambanks and is easy to find, and just about all of
the plant is toxic......

Ben Rondeau
rondeau at ropt1.am.wyeth.com

From: gbrent at rschp1.anu.EDU.AU (Geoffrey Brent)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Period poisons
Date: 15 Jul 1994 01:43:36 -0400
Organization: the internet

One toxin that was certainly present in mediaeval times, and more deadly
than any mentioned so far (by dose) : botulin. Nasty, too.

It might be a bit hard to find which food contained it, though. Unless
you had a whole lot of servants nibble on things, and note who dropped
dead of it.
--
	Geoffrey the Quiet (gbrent at rsc.anu.edu.au)

From: gbrent at rschp1.anu.EDU.AU (Geoffrey Brent)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Fast acting poisons ?
Date: 11 Jul 1994 01:30:20 -0400
Organization: the internet

I can think of one that might be available. The good old favourite,
cyanide. Present in apple pits, apricot kernels, etc. etc. in
significant quantities. (Ever noticed how apple pits taste a little like
almonds ?) I suspect it would be quite possible to extract enough HCN
from something of the sort to poison someone.

(The reason apple pits and apricot kernels contain the stuff: not a lot
of creatures make a habit of eating apricot kernels.)
--
	Geoffrey the Quiet (gbrent at rsc.anu.edu.au)

From: doconnor at sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Fast acting poisons ?
Date: 14 Jul 94 07:54:38
Organization: not much.

gbrent at rschp1.anu.EDU.AU (Geoffrey Brent) writes:
] I can think of one that might be available. The good old favourite,
] cyanide. Present in apple pits, apricot kernels, etc. etc. in
] significant quantities. (Ever noticed how apple pits taste a little like
] almonds ?) I suspect it would be quite possible to extract enough HCN
] from something of the sort to poison someone.

When my wife was young, her mother would make wild cherry (I think) wine.
According to my wife, a layer of cyanide-rich liquid would accumulate
on top of the wine, which her mother would simply skim off.
--
Dennis O'Connor                          doconnor at sedona.intel.com
Intel i960(R) Microprocessor Division    Solely responsible for what I do.

From: darkstar at u.washington.edu (Alden  Hackmann)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Digitalis
Date: 12 Jul 1994 19:07:13 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

WISH at uriacc.uri.EDU writes:

>> Michael Chance <mchance at nyx10.cs.du.edu>
>> ...
>> I'd have thought that digitalis (nightshade) would be another
>> "fast-acting" poison.  Could it be produced in quantity in period?

>Purely from memory; Purple foxglove produces enough digitalis
>                    to kill livestock, so I'd be surprised if people
>                    could survive it...  (Isn't digitalis in small
>                    doses used to treat dropsy? )

Yes, but nightshade and foxglove are different plants.  Foxglove 
(Digitalus purpura) produces digitalis, which is used therapeutically but 
is quite toxic: the margin between a useful dose and one that kills may 
be as low as a factor of 2.  The modern drug, digoxin, is chemically 
modified so the therapeutic index is a little wider, but it's still quite 
dangerous.  You should wash your hands after handling foxglove. 

Deadly nightshade produces a different toxin, an anti-cholinergic which 
acts on the nervous system.  

Caveat: It's been a long time since I learned all this stuff, and I don't 
have my Goodman and Gilman nearby to check.  

Alden 

From: jeffs at math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: botulin
Date: 28 Jul 1994 20:14:02 -0400
Organization: the internet

>One toxin that was certainly present in mediaeval times, and more deadly
>than any mentioned so far (by dose) : botulin. Nasty, too.

Hmmm...hard to figure where you'd get it.  Doesn't C. Botulinus
require a vacuum to produce its organic poison?  (Granted, there are
some unusual circumstances I've heard of...including one that involved
a layer of fat forming a hermetic seal over a vat of soup...SCA cooks
beware...)

OK, I missed the original post, but off the top of my head the
available medieval poisons I can think of are:  mercury, lead and any
number of other heavy metals (slow acting ones with symptoms well
known in period); various cyanides from things like peach pits etc.
("Prussian Blue" is good ol' HCN, though I don't know whether that
particular type of dye is period); lots of nasty organometallic
compounds like lead acetate ("sugar of lead" with all the really
interesting whodunit possibilities it implies for period
mysteries...); and ergot.

Ergot may be the most interesting case...if rye infected with ergot is
baked into a loaf, the LSD will survive the cooking process...then you
feed it to the victim.  Then you call the authorities and report a
witch...

William the Alchymist
(Now, where did I put that blowfish that I got sent...)

From: Joyce Miller <jmiller at genome.wi.mit.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: botulin
Date: 29 Jul 1994 18:48:52 GMT
Organization: Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research

In article <9407290011.AA00193 at math.bu.edu> Jeff Suzuki,
jeffs at math.bu.EDU writes:
>Ergot may be the most interesting case...if rye infected with
ergot is
>baked into a loaf, the LSD will survive the cooking
process...then you
>feed it to the victim.  Then you call the authorities and report a
>witch...
>
>William the Alchymist

Or you report a dead person.  Ergot contains the alkoloids
ergonovine and ergotomine, both of which are composed of lysergic
acid, the precursor of LSD (Lysergic acid diethylamide, which has
to be synthisized in the laboratory).  Both alkoloids have very
powerful effects -- burning sensations in the extremities,
contriction of blood vessels (leading to gangrene in severe
cases), hallucinations, spontaneous abortions, and culvulsions
leading to death.  "Saint Anthony's Fire" or "Holy Fire" was a
common disease in the Middle Ages, particularly in France, where
tens of thousands were killed by it.  Many victims visited the
shrine of St. Anthony in Egypt, and were cured -- not surprising,
since they probably ate non-contaminated grain along the way.

Although in 1597 people began to associate the grain fungus and
the disease, outbreaks of ergotism continued well into this
century; in 1926 in the Ukraine, in the first few decades of this
century in New York, Ohio and Kansas, and most recently, in a
French village in 1951.  A fictionalized account of that outbreak
was given in the book "The Day of St. Anthony;s Fire_, by John G.
Fuller (1968).

-- Ursula/Joyce
=======================================================
Joyce Miller                  jmiller at genome.wi.mit.edu
Whitehead Institute / M.I.T. Center for Genome Research
617-252-1914 (phone)                 617-252-1902 (FAX)
=======================================================

From: gbrent at rschp1.anu.EDU.AU (Geoffrey Brent)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Sausage poisoning
Date: 29 Jul 1994 02:14:10 -0400
Organization: the internet

Botulism doesn't require a vacuum; vacuums are rather hard to find in
the natural environment. What it does require is an environment without
free oxygen. (Oxygen is actually quite nasty to many critters; for those
that haven't evolved to cope with it, it's about as nasty as a lungful
of chlorine gas.) As someone mentioned earlier, sausage interiors are
one of these places - the name "botulism" derives from the Latin for
"sausage".

As for poisoning with straight mercury, I really wouldn't bother. It's
not very toxic (to eat; don't breathe the vapour) until it's in some
sort of compound. If you swallow pure mercury, most of it goes straight
through you (don't try this at home, darlings.)

Besides, the wretched stuff keeps rolling out of the food...

If I were a poisoner in period (alas, I was born four hundred years too
late, with the right outlook on life but the wrong morals) these are
some of the things I'd try :

Cyanide from peach pits etc. I'd want to be using a nice big dose.
Cyanide's fast enough that people will connect the poisoning with the
food pretty quickly, and if they aren't dead after all that things get
messy.

A whole heap of foxglove mixed into their food; I think heating would
denature it (not sure) so I'd have to just mix it in something without
cooking.

Arsenic (I think this was in period) over a period of time.

Rent-A-Snake. Actually, Rent-Lots-Of-Snakes. One snake bite is by no
means guaranteed fatal, even from something really deadly (and all the
deadliest snakes are _ours_, and out of the SCA's area.) Perhaps,
collect the venom and evaporate some of the moisture content (without
heating), then accidentally scratch them with it. Rather dodgy,
difficult to do without being caught. Besides, many snake venoms leave a
very obvious mark where they were introduced and take too long to work -
the victim would talk.

"Uncle Charles, have a mushroom !" Not called Destroying Angel because
they have halos and wings.

Or, if I was feeling particularly nasty :
	Find ye a rabid dog. Get your servants to capture it. (lucky
	them.) If it's dead, carefully collect saliva, blood or
	whatever. Better yet, get your servants to do it. Then spread it
	on a chunk of meat and feed it to your enemy's dog. Better
	still, chop the whole rabid dog up and feed it to his dog.
	Or invite him to dinner, and put a little bit of raw meat in his
	food, and hope. (Steak tartare ? :-) Or scratch him with
	something dipped in the stuff (Oops, must be more careful with
	that knife. I might have killed you.)

	If the dog's still alive, you'll probably want to kill it
	anyway.

In period, infection would have invariably lead to a rather horrible
death. (There is only one recorded case of a human surviving rabies
infection once it took hold, and that was with full medical aid. Rabies
kills 30 000 people a year now, in 1994.)

Of course, it all depends on what you want to achieve. For sudden death,
cyanide's the only period poison I can think of, and a hired goon with a
crossbow is a lot better. Besides, why bother ? You don't want to make
it too easy to work out when poisoning occurred. Far better to use
something slow-acting, which could be mistaken for natural causes.

Sadly, a lot of the best animal poisons are Australian. That's your
tough luck.

I doubt I would have used botulism, not so much because it would be too
difficult but because I wouldn't have known how to cultivate it, knowing
nothing about how diseases worked (on the other hand, I think most
people in an area with rabies would know how to catch it.)

These suggestions are only for informational purposes. Do NOT play with 
any of these poisons.
--
	Geoffrey the Quiet (gbrent at rsc.anu.edu.au)

From: gbrent at rschp1.anu.EDU.AU (Geoffrey Brent)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Period poisons - oleander
Date: 1 Aug 1994 01:02:42 -0400
Organization: the internet

Oleander is certainly poisonous, as is the smoke. The problem is, from
what I know of it I suspect it would be a little inconvenient and
unreliable.

You see, when you're choosing your poisons, there are several things you
want out of them.

i) Untraceability. If someone dies in the middle of a meal from blowfish
poisoning, and you own the only blowfish in town, people are going to be
suspicious.

ii) Reliability. If you can't be guaranteed that someone will die from
your attempt, you could be in trouble. If they realise someone's trying
to kill them they will take more precautions and look for suspects.
Poisoning's a very suspicious way to die in any case, and if you leave
someone not-quite-dead there will be even more of an attempt to find out
who did it.

iii) Convenience/ease of introduction. The ideal poison resembles food
or has such a small lethal dose that you can hide it in their
meal anyway. It doesn't taste too strong, and it isn't destroyed by
cooking or whatever you do to the food after poisoning it.

iv) Syptoms should resemble some "natural" cause of death; they should
also happen long enough after eating that people don't trace the exact
meal. (This is where systematic poisoning with arsenic or heavy metals
comes into its own.)

Oleander would fall down on ii and iii, I think. While it is certainly a
danger to animals and children, the dose is still far from minute
(especially to an adult.) I am not a big enough idiot to have tried it,
but I suspect the taste would be quite strong. (It's better for the
plant to deter you than to kill you at the cost of all its leaves.)
Being a reasonably complex poison (sorry, don't know the details, but
most vegetable poisons are) it would probably be decomposed by cooking.

Another problem with organic poisons, especially the more complicated
ones, is that tolerances vary enough to give you the occasional nasty
surprise. "That leaf salad was heavenly ! What _do_ you put in it ?"

From the above list, I'd be most in favour of something like destroying
angel mushrooms. If you mix bits of them in with normal mushrooms,
you can't really tell that there's something wrong. (If you use a
brightly coloured fungus, like the one with the pretty red spots, just
use the insides and destroy the outside. The insides of mushrooms look
much the same no matter what they're from.)

The poison is so toxic that reliability is no problem (tolerance or no,
you're in a lot of trouble.) It would probably be seen as poisoning,
because the effects are more acute than most diseases, but it could have
just been an accident - you know how difficult it is to tell with
mushrooms...

And it's not hard to introduce - just offer some chopped mushrooms. You
don't have to cook them.

If you want a really long delay in period, you really have to accept
some unreliability. In such a case, I'd be thinking more of biological
agents than chemical - as I mentioned, rabies takes a fair while before
it takes effect. It's also quite nasty, if you're feeling vengeful.

(Geoffrey the Quiet is just a wanderer with no real reason to poison
people, although the subject does interest him somewhat. Geoffrey Brent
knows more about poisons than an honest lad should, and requests that
you don't try any of these, even in fun. Lethal doses deliberately
omitted.)
--
	Geoffrey the Quiet (gbrent at rsc.anu.edu.au)

From: jjordan at yorick.umd.edu (James L. Jordan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period poisons - oleander
Date: 4 Aug 1994 13:05:48 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

I agree, the death angel mushroom would be an ideal way to off someone.  
the toxin actually destroys the victim's liver.  The demise is within a 
few days, with all sorts of symptoms that could be msitaken for a natural 
cause.

From: irgenwer at ix.netcom.com (Kate was here)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: White Lead
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 22:17:48 GMT
Organization: Quahaug Cannery

david.razler at worldnet.att.net (David M. Razler) posted:
>3) One lead compound misidentified in a post is lead acetate, Pb(C2H2O2)2 or
>"sugar of lead" which tastes great, is less filling and kills you. It was used
>in some times/places in the Roman Empire and into period as a wine sweetener.

Wow!  I didn't know that.  That's cool!  (Though my favorite poison used in
food is still orpiment, As2S3 - used in medieval and renaissance Italy as a
preservative for shipping wine long distances.  A little arsenic with your
burgundy, mi'lord?)

Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:13:14 +1000
From: The Cheshire Cat <sianan at geocities.com>
Subject: SC - Deadly Datura

>I believe that Datura was used as an ordeal poison by native americans.

In ancient Egypt too, Datura was used as a poison.  Very popular with
assassins and such like.  (I'm begginning to realise an alarming trend with
my knowledge,  I know more anout wierd potions and poisons than I do
cooking.)
- -Sianan

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 18:07:31 -0500
From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Herbs, and Poisons, etc. Oh My!

http://www.erols.com/cosby/diana.html  A Writer's page.

Check Out Where these links lead you.

Magnus

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 00:34:33 EST
From: <Fopdejour1@aol.com>
To: sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Poison Research

In a message dated 03/11/2000 4:54:52 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Blondi1365@aol.com 
writes:
> How was rosewater used as poison? 
>  Elizabeth

I'd have to do some digging, but if I remember correctly...there is a period 
recipe for a certain poison involving boiling oleander and white lead in 
sesame oil and rose water. 

Charles

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 08:13:51 -0800
From: "dragondancer" <drgndncr@uswest.net>
To: <sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Poison Research

> How was rosewater used as poison?
> Elizabeth

no rose water was used a a remedy for certain poisons..

Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 19:59:53 EST
From: <Fopdejour1@aol.com>
To: sca-arts@raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Why not the black widdow?

In a message dated 03/12/2000 11:27:09 PM !!!First Boot!!!, magnusm@ncsu.edu 
writes:
>  What? 
>  There was no convenient outhouse with blackwidows you could direct the
>  miscreants to innocently? Were there no convenient Horde members to
>  assist?
>  
>  Appalled at the inefficiency, not to mention the risk.
>  
>  Magnus

Actually, I became fascinated with the medieval uses of poison for methods of 
assassination.  I did some cursory research on it, and decided it would be 
kinda fun to actually "concoct" some poisons based on period recipes with 
ingredients I had made or grown myself.  You know, the whole "sheep to shawl" 
thing.

    I purchased several of the requisite plants i.e. belladonna, fox glove, 
Blue Monks Hood (the Asian variety), some opium poppies, and Black Hellebore. 
I had some Oleander growing down the street from me, and I decided I would 
make the first batch from a recipe stated in a paper written by mistress 
Gunnorra Hallakarva from Ansteorra on poisons: involving white lead, sesame 
seed oil, Oleander leaves, and rose water.

    A bit later I talked to my laurel, and several others, and we all came to 
the conclusion that; while a very interesting project, it had some 
potentially dangerous effects.  Especially as I made myself rather sick 
handling dried Aconite root sans gloves. I nixed the project and have 
committed the whole thing to the realm of research, which I have put aside of 
late for other pursuits i.e. my costuming.

    Ahhhh yes, and the poisoned dress from "Elizabeth"...totaly possible 
using aconite which can be absorbed through the skin....clothes anyone?

btw....all my plants are dead.   That happens when one goes to Pennsic for 
two weeks and doesn't water them.

HL Charles de Bourbon -- CIM
Apprentice to Mistress Charla Noel du Lac
Crown Barony of Bordermarch,
Ansteorra

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] ivory reworked
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:18:05 -0600

>Ok. And what are "bezoar stones"?
>Stefan

A bezoar stone is a hard mass of indigestible material such as hair or
fibers found in the stomachs or intestines of animals.  Apparently they are
fairly common in ruminants and humans.  Bezoar stones are believed to have
magic properties and act as a antidote to poison.

Bezoar appears to derive from the Middle English "bezear" from the Old
French "bezahar" possibly from the Arabic "bazahr" which derives from the
Persian "padzahr" meaning "poison antidote."

Bear

Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:21:39 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re Request for info on period poisons
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Seems to me Amanita phalloides (death angel, death cap, death cup mushroom)
was used in at least one period murder.  And arsenic was described as an
element by Albertus Magnus in the 13th Century.  Socrates was executed with
an infusion of poison hemlock (Conium maculatum), so that was certainly
known in Shakespeare's time.  Snake venom, with or without the snake, is
another possibility, but other than Cleopatra's (apochryphal?) suicide, I
can't think of an occurence

Bear

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 06:17:01 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re Request for info on period poisons
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Thought of another one after I staggered off to bed.  Belladonna or deadly
nightshade (Atropa belladonna).

Bear

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:01:24 -0400
From: "a5foil" <a5foil at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re Request for info on period poisons
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

How about aconite -- monkshood?

Though looking at Grieve's Herbal, she says it was considered an antidote
against other poisons -- as well as being known as venomous and deadly.

Cynara

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:50:09 -0500
From: "Aurore" <Aurore at hot.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re Request for info on period poisons
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Don't forget Foxglove.  It has it's good uses but used in a bad way, it does
the deed.  Aurore

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:30:21 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re Request for info on period poisons
To: "'sca-cooks at ansteorra.org'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Other poisons I have thought of, opium (from Papaver somniferum, opium
poppy), aconite (from Aconitum napellus, monkshood or wolfsbane), digitalis
(from Digitalis purpurea, foxglove), hyoscyamine (from Hyoscyamus niger,
hensbane), and hellebore (most of the genus Helleborus).  

For a period source on poisons which is contemporary to Shakespeare, Try
Giambattista della Porta's "Magia Naturalis" (1558).  He also appears as
Giovanni Battista Porta or della Porta.  Transcripts of the 1558 Latin text
and the 1658 English translation are webbed at: 
http://members.tscnet.com/pages/omard1/jportat3.html

This text also contains a section on cookery, so it is of interest to this
list beyond it's poisons.

Bear

Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:34:25 -0400
From: "Sayyida Halima al-Shafi'i of Raven's Cove" <lkuney at ec.rr.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] period poisons...
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Let us not forget hemlock...<g>

Halima al-Shafi'i
Stronghold of Raven's Cove
Kingdom of Atlantia

Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 18:33:03 -0400
From: Morgana Abbey <morgana.abbey at juno.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: period poisons...
To: Sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

A friend of mine taught a class some years ago about poisons.  I do not
have his sources to cite, but here is the wildest poisoning method he
found.

From the North of Scotland:  Catch a sea snake (yeah, one of those nasty
chase-you-up-on-shore critters).  Milk it for venom.  Mix the venom with
oil--carefully as the venom is a neurotoxin and therefore --- Put the
mixture inside your enemy's gloves.  Venom seeps through skin.  Enemy
dies.  You party.

Morgana

Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:44:53 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period poisons...
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>>>
Here is a web site of deaths by unnatural causes in illuminations, it
contains a section on poisoning. Unfortunately they don't list the poison being used.
http://www.kb.nl/kb/manuscripts/highlights/31E23_uk.html

Cecily
<<<

Since the title is Socrates drinks from the poisoned cup, the poison is an infusion of poison hemlock (Conium maculatum).  The execution of Socrates is recorded by Plato, one of Socrates's students.

Bear

Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 08:53:30 -0600
From: "Eden Blacksmith" <edenblacksmith at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] period poisons
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

from my files on  posion.....hope it has something you need.
Eden
Atenveldt

http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/poiso001.html
http://www.lehigh.edu/~jahb/herbs/WomenMed.html
http://www.portfolio.mvm.ed.ac.uk/studentwebs/session2/group12/middle.htm
http://webexhibits.org/pigments/indiv/color/greens3.html
http://www.florilegium.org/files/UNCAT/poisons-art.html
http://www.castellum.freewebspace.com/pestcont.html
http://www.portfolio.mvm.ed.ac.uk/studentwebs/session2/group12/renaissance.htm
http://www.skell.org/SKELL/plants4.htm
http://britishexpats.com/arch/44/2001/4/22353 (questionable resource ...but, cute)
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/glaber-1000.html
http://www.erowid.org/library/books/poisons_of.shtml
http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/mgmh.html

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris	poisons-msg