Landsknechts-msg - 4/10/05 German mercenaries and soldiers of the 16th century Holy Roman Empire. NOTE: See also the files: Germany-msg, mercenaries-msg, SwissGuard-msg, p-armor-msg, armor-msg, fd-Germany-msg, cl-Germany-msg, mercenaries-msg. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ From: jheinen at mcl.ucsb.edu (Jeff Heinen) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Landsknechts Date: 25 Sep 1996 00:58:22 GMT Organization: University of California, Santa Barbara It seems much of the disagreement over how heavily armored landsknecht soldiers were stems from confusion over terminology. While it is true that period sources refer to landsknechts as being "lightly armored" or wearing a "half armor," it must be recognized that these terms of description are relative to what was considered "full" armor of the period. To be fully armored in this period was to be encased in steel from head to toe, every inch of one's body protected. The landsknecht, on the other hand, usually wore a "sallet, gorget, breast and back (usually furnished with short laminated tassets), and a 'pair of splints' (arm harness)." (Edge & Paddock, Arms & Armor of the Medieval Knight. p. 140) In other words, the landsknecht wore what the typical SCA fighter who fights in plate wears, minus knee protection. Edge states that this is what the landsknechts "habitually" wore. (140) I've personally never seen anyone take the field in the SCA who was wearing anything that even approached a 16th century full armor. So the argument that landsknechts were "unarmored" simply falls apart and hence the rationale for wearing plastic to simulate the "unarmored" landsknecht no longer works either. If you want to be a landsknecht, you should actually be wearing as much armor as your typical heavy. Now celts, on the other hand, did fight with no armor. In fact, they often fought naked. That would be something to see... -Gottfried +--------------------------------+----------------------------------+ | Jeff Heinen | "Neccessitas non habet legem." | | jheinen at mcl.ucsb.edu | -St. Augustine | | http://www.calpoly.edu/~jheinen| | |================================+==================================| | Department of History | Senior Consultant | | University of California | Microcomputer Lab | | Santa Barbara | UCSB | +--------------------------------+----------------------------------+ From: Mike Foster Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Landsknechts Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 05:38:03 -0700 Jeff Heinen wrote: > It seems much of the disagreement over how heavily armored landsknecht > soldiers were stems from confusion over terminology. No. >The landsknecht, on > the other hand, usually wore a "sallet, gorget, breast and back (usually > furnished with short laminated tassets), and a 'pair of splints' (arm > harness)." (Edge & Paddock, Arms & Armor of the Medieval Knight. p. 140) Thank you for the reference, I will certainly look into it. "It was uncommon for the normal footsoldier to wear armor.... never wore a backplate... due to lack of resources..." (Douglas Miller & G.A. Embleton, Osprey Men-at-Arms Seris, The Landsknechts, pg. 35) This was the only passage I could find on armor at all (well, I am late for work). There is a portion of the book set aside for weapons, artillery, organization, campaigns... everything except armor. Most likely because there wasn't much to say. When describing the muster, it mentions that prospective landsknechts were expected to bring their own equipment, "which depended on whether the recruit brought his own weapons or not" (pg.4), which again specifically leaves out any mention of armor. Landsknecht soldiers were not knights, they were "a motley crew of journeymen, peasants, and students" (pg.4). Of all the depictions in the book, only 2 of the people in armor are *not* officers. One wears a breastplate and nothing else, the other a breastplate and short tassets. Anything nearing what you describe was only worn by high-ranking officers. > So the argument that landsknechts were "unarmored" simply falls apart and > hence the rationale for wearing plastic to simulate the "unarmored" > landsknecht no longer works either. I trust my reference material more than yours, therefore my rational stands. >If you want to be a landsknecht, you > should actually be wearing as much armor as your typical heavy. I disagree, unless you want to be Frundsberg :-) From: jheinen at mcl.ucsb.edu (Jeff Heinen) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Landsknechts Date: 26 Sep 1996 02:46:17 GMT Organization: University of California, Santa Barbara Mike Foster wrote: > I trust my reference material more than yours, therefore my rational > stands. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I definately give more credence to Edge and Paddock than to the Man-at-Arms series. I've never found a Man-at-Arms book in a research library, while I have run into Edge and Paddock's book a few times. They've also been referenced in scholarly journals, something I can't say of the Osprey books. -Gottfried +--------------------------------+----------------------------------+ | Jeff Heinen | "Neccessitas non habet legem." | | jheinen at mcl.ucsb.edu | -St. Augustine | | http://www.calpoly.edu/~jheinen| | |================================+==================================| | Department of History | Senior Consultant | | University of California | Microcomputer Lab | | Santa Barbara | UCSB | +--------------------------------+----------------------------------+ From: tomhelmers at aol.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: LandsKnecht-HELP Date: 21 Jan 1997 06:05:06 GMT Maeryk Gutentag! Welcome camraden! The easiest/cheapest/comprehensive book is Osprey's MAn at Arms series #58 on the Landsknechte's & can be found for about $12 easily. Try many of the online or mail order bookstores. Two long out of print & hard to find but excelent books on the topic are; 1) The Art of War in the 16th Century by Sir Charles Oman -This covers the intire century very detailed. 2)The Triumph of Maximilian I, reprint by Dover books with plates by Hans Burgkmair & Albrecht Durer -Over 130 detailed woodblocks of Landskenchtes & civilians. It was done in about 1519 & is EXCELENT source for garb ideas from hats to shoes. Also look up any of the books on the Sack of Rome in 1527. There are several out there. Good Luck! Good words to do searches on are; Landsknecht, Frundsberg, & Mercenary. These pretty well cover it. If you, or anyone else, needs help on Landsknechte info feel free to email me. My persona is that of a Landsknechte fighting the Italian Wars under Frundsberg. I fight as a Landsknechte & look forward to seeing more of us out there. Chous Lord Amalric von Regensburg From: tomhelmers at aol.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: LandsKnecht-HELP Date: 30 Jan 1997 04:17:28 GMT Hello Again I forgot a new & REALLY good reference. Opsrey's campaign series just came out with a book on the battle of Pavia 1525. The book is #44 in the series & is an excellent book on this very important Landsknechte battle. As with most Osprey books should be easily found & sells in the $15 range. & I stand corrected on guten Tag (2 words) Sorry. Chous Amalric von Regensburg From: Julie Adams Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Landsknecht Living History Website Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 22:37:20 -0700 The Kriegshunde Fahnlein is proud to announce its new web site: http://www.st-mike.org/groups/german/homepage.html The Kreigshunde is a living history re-enactment type group which focuses on the culture of the Landsknecht, 16th century soldiers of the Holy Roman Empire. It is heavily under construction, but there are lots of photos of the group -- lots of landsknecht and women's costumes, some women's costume guidelines (will be updated with images soon), Renaissance German names, occupations, games and songs, and a huge page of great medieval and renaissance links. We plan to grow a lot over time, so keep checking back. The email address on the site may not be up yet, so please send any comments or questions to me: savaskan at sd.znet.com, or the Group Manager at: mr.matt at worldnet.att.net Julie Adams Web site Administrator aka Juliana Hirsch (OL - SCA) Subject: ANST - Landsknecht Drawings Date: Sun, 09 Aug 98 10:11:43 MST From: Erik Langhans To: '!Ansteorra Net'" A couple of people have asked that I post some pictures of Landsknecht for SCA costuming/armour purposes. I have over 30 from period woodcuts and pen/ink drawings. You can find these on my web site at www.cityscope.net/~modius Go to the Landsknecht Quarters at the Castle. Modius Ansteorra Landsknecht Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 19:13:03 +0100 (MET) From: "Kai D. Kalix" Subject: Re: [sca-cooks] time of year/what to serve? To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org Selene wrote: > The word "Landsknecht" literally means "land farmhand" so fresh fresh > early summer foods would be in order. Making a big deal of the World > Premiere of the first summer berries, calloo callay! A rainbow of stone > fruits should just be appearing by June. > > The "Landsknecht" clothing style is known for combining many colors, the > more the better, so work that visual theme into the menu as well. > Many-colored dishes of sauces, etc. "Landsknecht", more literally "knave of the land/country" were a kind of levy military, especially (IIRC) in the 30-year-war. And yes, their clothing was colorful, as to hurt your eyes. Landsknechte were often drawn in taverns, getting some poor drunk bloke to sign (xxx, if analphabet) up to some army fighting in some war the new Landsknecht probably didn't even know anything about. kai Edited by Mark S. Harris Landsknechts-msg Page 5 of 5