Manx-msg - 2/15/08

The Isle of Man. Manx personas.

NOTE: See also the files: Ireland-msg, Celts-msg, fd-Ireland-msg, Norse-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

From: scott at math.csuohio.edu (Brian M. Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Manx personas, anyone?
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 07:25:38 GMT
Organization: Cleveland State University

On Thu, 08 Oct 1998 17:34:40 GMT, r-abbott at uiuc.edu (Alix) wrote:

>I decided to be a little different than the run-of-the-mill Celts in
>my persona choice, and I have become fascinated by the Isle of Man.  I
>am not having much luck in doing research, and so I am hoping that
>someone out there could point me in the right direction.  I can't even
>get a name for my persona, unless I assume that Irish and/or Viking
>names would be the norm.  I hate to make such assumptions.  (The
>response from the Academy of St. Gabriel is still pending.)

The language, Manx Gaelic, was very similar to Irish in period, and
the naming practices were also generally similar to those of the
Irish.  (The similarity is a little hard to see in some of the
surviving documents because Manx was written in an English-based
orthography instead of the traditional Irish spelling.)  There was of
course also a considerable leavening of names borrowed from the Norse,
but that's true for Ireland as well.  Most of the little information
available is from the 16th c., with a bit from the 15th; anything
earlier, which I seem to recall is what you wanted, is going to
involve some guesswork.

In the bibliography of one of my name references I find R.H. Kinvig,
_The Isle of Man_ (Liverpool Univ. Press, 1975); I've never read it,
but it's supposed to be a history and might be a good starting point
if you can find it.

Talan Gwynek

From: amyripton at aol.com (Amyripton)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Manx personas, anyone?
Date: 9 Oct 1998 13:02:17 GMT

>I decided to be a little different than the run-of-the-mill Celts in
>my persona choice, and I have become fascinated by the Isle of Man.  

What time period are you interested in?  The Manx differ in several ways from
other Celtic cultures, but some of them are rather hard to mimic--language is
of course one of the best ways to identify origin, but it'll take a long time
to develop your persona if you decide to learn Manx today.  Finding books on
Manx will sertainly help you with names though.  Try contacting the Celtic
League American Branch (CLAB) at PO Box 20153, Dag Hammarskjold Postal Center,
New York, NY 10017.  They publish a booklet called "Learning the Celtic
Languages" which includes bibliographies, info on study groups, and
organizations to contact about Manx.  

From: natantgray at aol.com (NatanTGRay)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Manx personas, anyone?
Date: 9 Oct 1998 21:07:23 GMT

I have a Manx persona.  Most of my documentation comes from my families
geneology research that my grandfather dug out about 15 years ago.  My persona
is set right around the time period when the Scots took control of the Isle of
Man from the Norwegian/Viking rulers.  The way i reflect that is by taking the
Viking name convention but adopting Scotish dress (aka a kilt).  The time
period for my persona is set at about 1350-1370.  I have trouble doing accents
so I approximate it by putting a soft german sounding accent to reflect the
sounds of Norwegian.  As far sources to look in,try Viking histories, research
on the Kindgom of Man and the Isles (which included the New Hebrides,Shetland,
and Man).

Some other sources you might have some luck are basic encyclopedias,atlases,
and historical sources.

If theres anything I can help you with please let me know at NatanTGRay at aol.com

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:59:38 +0100
From: Kate&Darryl Arrington <strmridr at bunt.com>
Subject: Re: ANST - Manx Garb

Spatsman at aol.com wrote:
> Just a curiousity, I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions or sources
> for early Manx garb, especially for women 1000-1200 AD.

First; Manx is what you call the people, products,etc. from the Isle of Mann the
Vikings landed on Mann in the 9th century and established town and colonies.
Scottish and English domination of the island didn't start untill 1265. There is
archaeological evidence that dates farming settlements back to at least 4000 BC,
but little is known of those peoples. The Celtic tribes that settled Scotland
started at the mainland. So for the time period you are taking about; you will
want viking garb. Not only have I spent MANY hours doing research on this 
subject; but I have been fortunate enough to be able to visit this and many of the Viking sites in Scotland, Ireland, and England. I am Ansteorran, but at the behest of Uncle Sam I am living in Germany.

If there is any other info you require, please feel free to contact me thru 
direct e-mail at strmridr at bunt.com.

Lady Katla Asyniurdottir

Subject: Kilt Researchers Rejoice!
From: John Groseclose <caradoc at neta.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:11:05 GMT

Good news!

*****
SP-196. Old Irish and Highland Dress. By H. F. McClintock. 234 pages.
paperback. large format. We are delighted to offer a reprint of this
elusive work on Highland and Irish dress, now back in print for the
first time in over 50 years. Included as well is information on the
dress of the Isle of Man, sitting halfway between Ireland and Scotland.
Originally published in 1943, the work deals in great detail with the
history, origin, and development of dress in these Celtic lands. Of
particular importance in this work are the numerous illustrations, each
of which is discussed in detail with regard to the stage of development
which it shows. If you are a re-creationist, a costume historian, or
simply someone looking for a comprehensive history of Scottish and
Irish dress, you need this book! $34.95
*****

It's been reprinted by Scotpress, http://www.scotpress.com - thank my
father for this one, as I've had him hunting for this book by
McClintock on Highland Dress for over a year.

I've also recently managed to obtain a copy of the original printing
for this book. As soon as my reprint arrives, I'll compare the two for
page numbering and such, so we can all be "on the same page" when
comparing notes.

Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 11:41:11 -0700
From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Manx Cookbooks

Fifty Manx Recipes on Isle Of Man Net
<http://www.iofm.net/community/recipes/>  Seems to be largely 18th Century
but still of interest.

From: "Hrolf Douglasson" <Hrolf at btinternet.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Elizabeth....reportsagain
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 15:46:51 +0100

> We're not even doing Scandinavian Vikings, but settlers on the isle
> of Man.   My biggest problem right now is trying to decide if those
> people would have had access to the spices available in Anglo-Saxon
> England;  but that's more an economics question.

Due to the trade routes through Mann to Dublin you are more likely to have
MORE access to the spices rather than less. Dublin traded heavily with the
middle east and Mann traded with dublin. They were both settled by
Norwegian rather than Danish settlers.

When I spoke to Ann Hagan last she was using some of the viking/saxon cross
type research so her books are valid.

Living in the UK has its advantages.

vara

From: "C. L. Ward" <gunnora at vikinganswerlady.org>
To: <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 16:53:28 -0600
Subject: [Ansteorra] Manx Info

I have some info on the Vikings in Man at:
http://www.vikinganswerlady.org/scotland.htm#IsleOfMan

::GUNNORA::

From: Lady Simone ui' Dunlaingh [simone at elfsea.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 5:56 PM
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Isle of Mann info

I can add more to references on the Isle of Mann. for those on the scribes
list, yes it's take two on resource links for the Isle of Mann

Here are some resources for the Isle of Mann. hope this can help you to find
what you are looking for.

http://www.isle-of-man.com general information Website

http://dbweb.liv.ac.uk/manninagh/ Center for Manx Studies

http://www.liv.ac.uk/researchintelligence/issue10/one.html research
intelligence The University of Liverpool

http://mahan.wonkwang.ac.kr/link/med/manuscript/insular/corphome.htm

http://www.vikinganswerlady.org/callig.htm

Lady Simone Maurian ui' Dunlaingh
simone at elfsea.net

From: Charani <me@privacy.net>
Subject: Re: Norse Pronounciation of Manx?
Newsgroups: soc.history.medieval
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 09:12:52 +0100

On 23 Jul 2006 14:57:27 -0700, jpotvin77@hotmail.com wrote:
> Does anyone know how the vikings, norse would pronounce the word Manx?
> WOuld it sound anything like Moax? 

Manx refers to the people of the Isle of Man and also to their
language which is Manx Gaelic.  Manx isn't a place and, IIRC, Man
wasn't the original name for the island.

It's pronounced "manks".

From: "Alan Crozier" <name1.name2@telia.com>
Newsgroups: soc.history.medieval
Subject: Re: Norse Pronounciation of Manx?
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:37:48 GMT

<jpotvin77@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Does anyone know how the vikings, norse would pronounce the word Manx?
> > > Would it sound anything like Moax?
> >
> > Manx refers to the people of the Isle of Man and also to their
> > language which is Manx Gaelic.  Manx isn't a place and, IIRC, Man
> > wasn't the original name for the island.
> >
> > It's pronounced "manks".
>
> Ok thank u! I wonder how someone from Norway would pronounce that. I
> was looking for somethign that sounded like Moax, moakes. Wonder if it
> would sound anything like that to someone from norway vikings who
> didn't know the language of manx at all. I'll have to check norse
> pronounciations of the letters nx. I know it's not a place but i'm
> thinking that they might have thought it was called Manx not isle of
> man when they first heard of the place.

First of all, the word Manx did not exist before the Norse arrived,
since it is a form that derived from the Norse adjective "manisk"
meaning "from the Isle of Man". So Moax could not be a Norse
misunderstanding of a Norse word.

Alan
-- 
Alan Crozier
Lund
Sweden

From: "Alan Crozier" <name1.name2@telia.com>
Newsgroups: soc.history.medieval
Subject: Re: Norse Pronounciation of Manx?
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 07:28:38 GMT

<jpotvin77@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone know how the vikings, norse would pronounce the word Manx?
> WOuld it sound anything like Moax?
> Thanks, J

The Norse called the island Mön (genitive Manar). The adjective from
this was Manisk, which has given our word Manx.

None of these sound like Moax. By the way, do you pronounce that to
rhyme with "coax" or "co-ax"?

A Norse settlement on the Isle of Man would never have had a name like
Manisk (Manx). Norse place-names did not work like that.

How about Moskenes in Norway?
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=moskenes&sa=N&tab=wi
or
http://tinyurl.com/zlt3e

Alan
-- 
Alan Crozier
Lund
Sweden

<the end>