fountains-msg – 9/30/07

Discussions about period fountains. Building replica fountains.

NOTE: See also the files: table-fountns-msg, Tubd-a-Scrubd-art, Perfumes-bib, perfumes-msg, rose-water-msg, waterbearing-msg, decadence-msg, Medvl-bathng-lnks.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 12:59:48 -0400
From: "Jeff Gedney" <gedney1 at iconn.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> So, how would one go about making a "fountain" without a
> post-Renaissance electric fountain kit?  I'm thinking, an adjoining
> reservoir set on a shelf just above the level of the output spout.
> Fluid goes in the reservoir and out the spout.  Refill as necessary,
> isn't that what servants are for?

Heck, My dear!
The common pump is plainly and documentably period.
Also could use a bladder to hold the reservoir of liquid
and applied pressure to it. In fact, Coopers sells bota's that could  
easily have served in this capacity.

Capt Elias
Dragonship Haven, East
(Stratford, CT, USA)

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 13:43:25 -0400
From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest
To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Selene asked:
> So, how would one go about making a "fountain" without a
> post-Renaissance electric fountain kit? I'm thinking, an adjoining
> reservoir set on a shelf just above the level of the output spout.
> Fluid goes in the reservoir and out the spout. Refill as necessary,
> isn't that what servants are for?

No answer, but there's that lovely Italian table fountain that was featured
at the Cleveland Museum of Art.  They did a computer-animated version
showing how it would have looked when active.  Might still be online on
their web site...

Alys Katharine

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 10:52:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat <mordonna22 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]Fountains was: Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

There is a 14th century table fountain at the
Cleveland Museum of Art.

http://www.clevelandart.org/exhibcef/burgundy/html/1080248.html

It does not use a gravity feed reservoir, but I don't know how it  
does work.

Mordonna
Lady Anne du Bosc
known as Mordonna the Cook
Shire of Thorngill, Meridies
Mundanely, Pat Griffin of Millbrook, AL

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:46:06 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]Fountains was: Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Found this mention---

For visible evidence of food in history, Prof. Rocke’s class, which
numbered fourteen students, visited the Cleveland Museum of Art
<http://www.clemusart.com/>. Students were shown various depictions of
food, artifacts, and containers for food, and they discovered a
fourteenth-century French table fountain. The fountain has a hidden
pumping mechanism that produces a continuous fountain of wine. “It is a
mechanically ingenious device and a work of art,” Prof. Rocke says.

http://www.case.edu/pubs/cwrumag/spring2001/features/foodthought/ 
index.shtml

The interactive feature that showed how it worked is mentioned in the
exhibit sections but that appears to have never been part of the
website. It was just for the public attending the show.

Johnnae

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 17:05:59 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]Fountains was: Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Circumstances prevented me from seeing this exhibit in person,
but I did buy the catalogue. This fountain appears on page 87 in the 2004
volume titled  Art from the Court of Burgundy.

  From the entry there--

"Originally, the fountain stood in a large catch basin. Water, pumped through
a central tube, emerged at the top through a series of nozzles (shaped as animals and drolleries) in jets that forced the rotation of the wheels and rang the tiny bells. The water gradually cascaded from one level to the next through gargoyle heads, only to refill the catch basin for another cycle.

The suggestion that such fountains were intended to be used for banqueting tables is not supported by the evidence. Inventories do not refer to these objects as "table" fountains and contemporary minatures of banqueting scenes do not depict such objects. They are generally associated with rose water. It seems more likely that, secondarily to their interest as objects of entertainment, they were intended to serve as room scenters mounted on tripods or small side tables."  S.N.F.

There appears to be this 40 plus page article on it.
Fliegel, Stephen N. "The Cleveland Table Fountain and Gothic Automata,"
Cleveland Studies in the History of Art. 2002 v.7.   pp. 6-49.

That article might be a starting point for more research. Looking up
automata as well as fountains might also be helpful. I'll see if I  
can find some books too.

Johnnae

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 21:21:37 -0500
From: "Radei Drchevich" <radei at moscowmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest
To: alysk at ix.netcom.com, "Cooks within the SCA"
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I know the fountians at trevi, and at Versaille are gravity fed.  Been a
long time since I did that work, give me a little while to go thru the
bibliography.  That is all still in the old style, on 3X5 index cards,
pre-computer research days.

radei

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 21:31:15 -0500
From: "Radei Drchevich" <radei at moscowmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks]Fountains was: Casa Bardicci Subtlety Contest
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

There is one idea I remember from an old reprint of the works of
Ptolomy.  a lower reservour is gently heated, a thin tube leads to the
upper reservour.  works like the "loveometer" Spencer Gifts sold in the
1980's.  Done correctly it can keep a flow going for hours.  as long as
the fountains works are not heat sensitive.

radei

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Date: October 7, 2005 8:17:33 AM CDT
To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: fountains was  Stefan's Florilegium files for October

<<< I would love to learn more about how period fountains worked. Does  
anyone have any recommendations for good books on the subject?

Faerisa >>>

Here's some other stuff on fountains--

Found this mention---

For visible evidence of food in history, Prof. Rocke’s class, which  
numbered fourteen students, visited the Cleveland Museum of Art  
<http://www.clemusart.com/>. Students were shown various depictions  
of food, artifacts, and containers for food, and they discovered a  
fourteenth-century French table fountain. The fountain has a hidden  
pumping mechanism that produces a continuous fountain of wine. “It  
is a mechanically ingenious device and a work of art,” Prof. Rocke  
says.

http://www.case.edu/pubs/cwrumag/spring2001/features/foodthought/ 
index.shtml

The interactive feature that showed how it worked is mentioned in the  
exhibit sections but that appears to have never been part of the
website. It was just for the public attending the show.

Johnnae

Pat wrote:

There is a 14th century table fountain at the
Cleveland Museum of Art. http://www.clevelandart.org/exhibcef/ 
burgundy/html/1080248.html

It does not use a gravity feed reservoir, but I don't know how it  
does work.
Mordonna
--------------
Circumstances prevented me from seeing this exhibit in person,
but I did buy the catalogue. This fountain appears on page 87 in the  
2004 volume titled  Art from the Court of Burgundy.

 From the entry there--

"Originally, the fountain stood in a large catch basin. Water, pumped through
a central tube, emerged at the top through a series of nozzles (shaped as animals and drolleries) in jets that forced the rotation of the wheels and  
rang the tiny bells.  The water gradually cascaded from one level to the next through gargoyle heads, only to refill the catch basin for another cycle.

The suggestion that such fountains were intended to be used for banqueting tables is not supported by the evidence. Inventories do not refer to these  
objects as "table" fountains and contemporary minatures of banqueting scenes do  
not depict such objects. They are generally associated with rose water. It seems  
more likely that, secondarily to their interest as objects of entertainment, they were intended to serve as room scenters mounted on tripods or small side tables."   
S.N.F.

There appears to be this 40 plus page article on it.
Fliegel, Stephen N. "The Cleveland Table Fountain and Gothic Automata,"
Cleveland Studies in the History of Art. 2002 v.7.   pp. 6-49.

That article might be a starting point for more research. Looking up
automata as well as fountains might also be helpful. I'll see if I  
can find some books too.

Johnnae

<end>