Title: museums-msg
Subject: museum experiences by SCA folk
Author: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: museum, SCA, PR

museums-msg - 9/8/10

Experiences in museums by SCA people. Useful museum references and web pages.

NOTE: See also the files: teaching-msg, CD-ROM-msg, info-sources-msg, fd-paintings-msg, med-letters-msg, maps-msg, publications-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com (Jason Magnus)
Subject: Re: blackballing SCA
Organization: The Polyhedron Group
Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 21:54:53 GMT

v058kb3k at ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (Michael H Cole) wrote:
> When the Metropolitan Museum of Art closed it's Armor galleries for renovation,
> I had the fortune to be apprenticed to the gallery's armorer. Although he was
> an SCA member, he would absolutely NOT allow SCA members to tour behind the 
> scenes, or give them, even supervised access to the collection. He had good 
> reason. . . .
> 
> He had tried it once already, and I have never seen a bunch of more badly 
> behaved people in my life. First thing was that they tried to touch EVERYTHING
> these were not pieces of reenactment armor, they were the real thing, finger oil
> degrades the metal and textiles, they are never supposed to be handled without
> special gloves, and they are really never supposed to be handled by anyone 
> except the conservators. Yet this particular group of people behaved like their
> SCA membership was some kind of proof positive that they were medieval experts
> and that they need not be subordinate to the fact that they were guests.
> 
> Next, and I'll never forget this, they spied a pair of gauntlets used for 
> foot combat at barriers (I think these might even have been a pair used by 
> Henry VIII at the Field of the Cloth of Gold). These were the REAL thing, they
> had seen action, there were the marks of sword blows all over them. Yet these
> folks went on and on about how they could'nt have really been used because
> the lack of articulation would prevent the wearer from snapping his wrist
> properly or whatever, etc. . . .you get the idea.
> 
> My boss was FUMING. I love the SCA and the people in it, but I have to admit
> that I can't blame him for no longer allowing SCA'ers to get "behind the scenes"
> tours, or any special attention. I'm not going to name names, but I will say 
> that it was a large group of people, and that I've given you a rather
> conservative estimate of what they did. One has to keep in mind that history
> is a CAREER to museum people and they take it VERY seriously, it's not a game,
> it's sacred.
> 
> I later served apprenticeships at the Oriental Armouries of the Tower of London,
> and the Arms and Armor collection of the Wallace Collection, both in England.
> In BOTH places I found that the conservators and collections managers had all
> had bad experiences with pompous reenactment groups who behaved in similarly
> bad taste. Is this a coincidence?
> 
> So if you looking for reasons that mundanes wouldn't like SCA people, here's
> a good one. I'm hoping to go into Arms & Armor at the museum level as a
> career, and my SCA membership is most certainly a strike against me.
> 
> Aerros "Eros" ben Shaprut

On the other side of the coin, -some- curators -love- the SCA. Several
years ago my Lady and I went to an An Tir Crown Tourney in Red Deer,
Alberta, Canada. While at the event we were given the name of a curator in
the military history section of the Glenbow Museum. That place has one of
the largest collections of plate armor on the continent. Local SCA folk
help the museum in various ways, including making replicas of missing
pieces to complete suits for display. (All replicas are, of course, clearly
marked and cataloged as such).

We went there the day after the event, asked for and finally met the man -
right about at closing time. When he found us, we were explaining chain
mail to a young lad who was fascinated by a chain shirt in the display. The
curator apparently liked our explanation of how that kind of riveted mail
was made, as he was smiling and nodding as we explained it. We explained
that we were in town for an SCA event, while on vacation from the States,
and that we had heard he might be willing to show us the rest of the
collection in the back room. We also asked if we could photograph some of
the armor, with an eye towards reproducing the pieces and determining how
they were constructed. He was quite happy to allow this, and we set an
appointment for the following day.

Seeing their collection was like visiting 'Armor R Us'. Wow! It was a most
wonderful experience. Unlike the boorish individuals that you recounted, we
kept our paws off the artifacts. When we expressed interest in a particular
gauntlet, he put on gloves and positioned the piece as we wished on a sheet
of white foam, so we could photograph it at any angle and look closely at
it. We respected his request not to touch, but were allowed to get quite a
close look. We still have the photographs.

Any curator can recount horror stories. The kid who snuck in an ice cream
cone and dripped it all over an artifact. Statuary knocked over or
paintings bumped off the wall. Even sometimes malicious vandalism or
know-it-all idiots. To ban all of a class of people based on the actions of
a few strikes me as an overreaction. A few serious instructions such as
'don't touch' should be all that is necessary. If they won't behave, eject
the fools as you would any other patron who breaks the museum rules. 

My wife and I are serious historians, who happen to be in the SCA. We have
generally found that if you treat museum people with the respect due a
professional, we get along just fine.
-- 
Regards, Jason Magnus (aka Jay Brandt)         <rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com>
In the SCA, HLS Jason of Rosaria, JdL, GdS, AoA           (Member # 3016)

From: locksley at indirect.com (Joe Bethancourt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: blackballing SCA
Date: 26 May 1994 07:39:50 GMT
Organization: Internet Direct, Inc.

Jason Magnus (rzex60 at email.sps.mot.com) wrote:
: In article <CqCyss.3z0 at acsu.buffalo.edu>, v058kb3k at ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
: (Michael H Cole) wrote:

: We went there the day after the event, asked for and finally met the man -
: right about at closing time. When he found us, we were explaining chain
: mail to a young lad who was facinated by a chain shirt in the display. The
: curator apparently liked our explanation of how that kind of riveted mail
: was made, as he was smiling and nodding as we explained it. We explained
: that we were in town for an SCA event, while on vacation from the States,
: and that we had heard he might be willing to show us the rest of the
: collection in the back room. We also asked if we could photograph some of
: the armor, with an eye towards reproducing the pieces and determining how
: they were constructed. He was quite happy to allow this, and we set an
: appointment for the following day.

: Seeing their collection was like visiting 'Armor R Us'. Wow! It was a most
: wonderful experience. Unlike the boorish individuals that you recounted, we
: kept our paws off the artifacts. When we expressed interest in a particular
: gauntlet, he put on gloves and positioned the piece as we wished on a sheet
: of white foam, so we could photograph it at any angle and look closely at
: it. We respected his request not to touch, but were allowed to get quite a
: close look. We still have the photographs.

: Any curator can recount horror stories. The kid who snuck in an ice cream
: cone and dripped it all over an artifact. Statuary knocked over or
: paintings bumped off the wall. Even sometimes malicious vandalism or
: know-it-all idiots. To ban all of a class of people based on the actions of
: a few strikes me as an overreaction. A few serious instructions such as
: 'don't touch' should be all that is necessary. If they won't behave, eject
: the fools as you would any other patron who breaks the museum rules. 

: My wife and I are serious historians, who happen to be in the SCA. We have
: generally found that if you treat museum people with the respect due a
: professional, we get along just fine.

Quite true, and the same applies to period (or not-so-period) old musical 
instruments. I have had the good fortune to have had quite similar 
experiences with older musical instruments (for those of you that know 
what it means, I have handled and played things like an 1833 Martin 
guitar, several pre-war D-45s, and three Lloyd Loar mandolins....along with
being able to examine quite closely several lutes, five-course guitars, 
and such like from our area of interest.)

Simply play nice, follow the rules, and treat this stuff like the 
irreplacable historical objects they are, and no problems.
--
locksley at indirect.com           PO Box 35190        Locksley Plot Systems
White Tree Productions      Phoenix, AZ 85069 USA         CyberMongol Ltd

From: odlin at reed.edu (Iain Odlin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: blackballing SCA
Date: 27 May 1994 00:18:24 GMT

> locksley at indirect.com (Joe Bethancourt) wrote:
>>Quite true, and the same applies to period (or not-so-period) old musical 
>>instruments. I have had the good fortune to have had quite similar 

  I'd go so far as to say the same holds true of any number of fields.  I
  myself have been in the position of being allowed to hold and inspect as
  in-depth as I cared to a number of pieces of medieval embroidery, all
  because I was (a) polite and (b) reverent.

  Honey and flies, yes?

  -Iain
 ------------------------- Iain Odlin, odlin at reed.edu -------------------------
                  10 Crosby Street, Level 3, Portland ME 04103

From: UDSD073 at DSIBM.OKLADOT.STATE.OK.US (Mike Andrews)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: blackballing SCA
Date: Fri, 27 May 1994 11:56
Organization: The University of Oklahoma (USA)

locksley at indirect.com (Joe Bethancourt) writes:
>Iain Odlin (odlin at reed.edu) wrote:
>: >In Article <2s1jo6$4tk at herald.indirect.com>, locksley at indirect.com (Joe
>: >Bethancourt) wrote:
>: >>Quite true, and the same applies to period (or not-so-period) old musical
>: >>instruments. I have had the good fortune to have had quite similar
>
>:   I'd go so far as to say the same holds true of any number of fields.  I
>:   myself have been in the position of being allowed to hold and inspect as
>:   in-depth as I cared to a number of pieces of medieval embroidery, all
>:   because I was (a) polite and (b) reverent.
>
>:   Honey and flies, yes?

I certainly found it so at the Royal Ontario Museum, where I got
to handle a _very_ nice piece of riveted mail (gloved, of course),
and the lock mechanism of a wheel-lock pistol. Got _good_ pictures!

Also got to play the docent's serpent - managed a complete octave.
Very much like putting a demitasse cup on, say, Carnegie Hall, and
trying to vary the pitch by opening/closing doors. Serpents take a
_lot_ of wind!!!
--
Michael Fenwick of Fotheringhay, O.L. (Mike Andrews)  Namron, Ansteorra,
who'll try to play _anything_ labeled "musical Instrument", if
the owner approves.

Pray for the repose of the soul of Katherine Godfrey (1955-1994),
         much loved and greatly missed.

From: meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org (meg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: blackballing SCA
Date: Sun, 29 May 94 13:04:52 EDT
Organization: Stonemarche Network Co-op

Megan here...
Many libraries limit access to their rare collections to persons holding 
a Master's or higher degree. Some, like the Morgan, issue reader's cards 
to grad students, but have really close security. All libraries I've been 
to issue white gloves, some even loan you page turners. Even so, there 
are some books that are so fragile that they are off limits to everyone, 
and only available on microfilm or fiche.
The SCA has a rather _good_ reputation as far as illuminated mss go. 
There are even some museums which commission scadian illuminators and 
calligraphers to reproduce art for private gifts, and for their shop 
sales to the public. I know of several artists within the society who 
produce reproductions for the Metropolitan museum shop. 

True story: my husband, who has a BFA, and I went to the NYC Public 
Library to see their collection of WW Denslow's illustrations to the 
Wonderful Wizard of Oz. Since I have a PH.D., they let me in, to see and 
even handle them, but my poor husband had to wait outside in the hall, 
because he wasn't a grad student.

Another true story, even sillier: the Met has one of my paintings in it's 
Modern Americans collection. My mother brought visiting out-of-town 
relatives to see it one day. It was not on current display, which meant 
it was in storage and could be called up from archive for private 
viewing. However, they were not college grads or students or anything, 
just the artist's mom, and so they were refused access. I pity the poor 
curator who had to explain this to my elderly mother.

Megan
== 
In 1994: Linda Anfuso
In the Current Middle Ages: Megan ni Laine de Belle Rive  
In the SCA, Inc: sustaining member # 33644

                                YYY     YYY
meg at tinhat.stonemarche.org      |  YYYYY  |
                                |____n____| 

Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 14:28:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: Heidi Torres <hjt at tenet.edu>
To: Ansteorran Mailing List <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>
Subject: ANST - Museums

Greetings all!

Yesterday I rediscovered the McNay Art Museum in San Antonio, TX, no more
than 10 minutes away from me for the past many years.  However, I hadn't
visited since my grade school days.

What a surprise!  I discovered a small but excellent medieval collection,
including stained glass from the 13-15th c., 15th c. Dutch and Italian
portraits (with lots of costuming detail!!!), and some wonderful stone and
wood carvings (again with lots of detail).  I couldn't believe these
things had been literally in my backyard all these years and I'd never
stuck my nose in to check them out.

The museum itself is one of the finest I have ever encountered (and I've
been in lots!).  The grounds are beautiful, the museum itself -- which is
the house.....mansion? villa?  palace? -- Ms. McNay lived and kept her
art collection in -- is gorgeous beyond belief and the displays are very
well done -- even whimsical at times.  After my visit yesterday, I'm
convinced it's the best museum in San Antonio, if not all South Texas.

Also, it's free!  Though you won't get out of the gift shop without
dropping some money.....

I'm writing this to encourage everyone to look into their local museums
(which many of us haven't been inside since grade school field trips) and
look at the displays with both new and older eyes.  If you haven't been
since you joined the SCA, I wager you'll find more interesting things than
you thought were there.

Also, when you find good stuff or know about traveling exhibitions, post
the info here to let people know.  Many of us who travel around the
kingdom to events could easily devote a couple of hours on Sunday to
checking out some good museum exhibits.

There's nothing like a primary source in your own town!

Happy hunting!

Mari

Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:05:19 -0600
From: Roberta R Comstock <froggestow at juno.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Soapstone

Twcs,  the big gallery here in KC MO is the Nelson.  For anyone who's not
been there, they have outstanding collections, including many ancient,
medeieval and renaissance pieces of many types, lots of period painings,
and world a famous array of oriental goodies, including bronzes,
embroideries, furniture, ceramics, jade, and a magnificent temple room.
Anyone who is coming to KC for an event (or other reasons) should plan
time to go to the Nelson!

Hertha

Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 10:00:08 MST
From: rmhowe <magnusm at ncsu.edu>
Subject: Museum Links
To: stefan at texas.net

Museum Links
31 May 1999

Museums and Museum Links Lists.

For when you want that book, or trying to find information on that
particular item, locations, attendance times, etc.

The top ones are museum links lists, in the biggest one the button to
take you to 10,000 links is in the left side of the page.
It's a Netherlands site and you will see a typing computer on the page.
If you run into problems try slicing off the ends of the addresses.
Webmasters are like magpies and like to rearrange their pretties or
look busy for pay. :) Or the organizations get their own URLs.

Master Magnus Malleus, OL, Atlantia, GDH

http://www.elsas.demon.nl/index_e.htm  10,000 links
http://archnet.uconn.edu/museums/museums.html
http://www.artcom.com/museums/
http://www.amn.org/
http://www.kulturnet.dk/museer/index-en.htm
http://www.museumserver.nl/e_index.shtml
http://chide.museum.org.uk/military.index.html
http://www.lam.mus.ca.us/webmuseums/main.shtml
http://www.museumsassociation.org/
http://www.museumserver.nl/internat/e_index.html
http://curry.edschool.virginia.edu/~lha5w/museum/
http://www.umu.se/nordic.museology/NM/Nordmuseer.html
http://www.scottishmuseums.org.uk/html/fset_welcome.htm
http://www.si.edu/
http://www.museums.co.uk/
http://nic.icom.org/vlmp/
http://www.icom.org/vlmp/
http://artresources.com/guide/comp/indexes/museum.html-ssi
http://sunsite.unc.edu/wm/
http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/archive/other/museums.html
http://www.icom.org/vlmp/

http://members.aol.com/trahern/museum.html
http://www.ashmol.ox.ac.uk/HomePage.html
http://www.british-museum.ac.uk/
http://www.britishmuseumcompany.co.uk/
http://www.dhm.de/
http://www.dhm.de/ENGLISH/sammlungen/Intro_Sammlungen.html
http://www.gotmus.i.se/
http://www1.shore.net/~hammond/index.htm
http://coal.sentex.net/~hogarth/
http://www.kulturnet.dk/index-en.htm
http://www.emory.edu/CARLOS/
http://www.metmuseum.org/
http://metmuseum.netcart.com/shop/
http://www.metmuseum.org/htmlfile/shop/shop.html
http://www.metmuseum.org/htmlfile/gallery/gallery.html
http://prehistory.moes.hum.aau.dk/
http://web.cnam.fr/museum/
http://www.museumlink.com/
http://www.museum-london.org.uk/MOLsite/menu.htm
http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/local/museums/
http://www.nga.gov/shop/shop.htm
http://www.natmus.min.dk/IXGB.HTM
http://www.natmus.dk/IXGB.HTM
http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/default.htm
http://www.museumserver.nl/home_fs_uk.htm
http://www.middelaldercentret.dk/projectindex.htm
http://www.nga.gov/collection/gallery/medieval/medieval-main1.html
http://pma.libertynet.org/

Royal Armouries / Leeds England and Tower of London Pages.
http://chide.museum.org.uk/royal.armouries/armouries.leeds.index.html
http://www.armouries.org.uk/collections/publications.htm
http://www.armouries.org.uk/   
http://www.leeds.gov.uk/tourinfo/attract/museums/armour.html

http://www.si.edu/newstart.htm
http://www.rashm.se/shm/home.html
http://musa.uffizi.firenze.it/welcomeE.html
http://www.vam.ac.uk/
http://www.demon.co.uk/heritage/wallace/

Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:48:15 -0500
From: Roberta R Comstock <froggestow at juno.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: pavilion exhibits ...

On Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:52:57 -0500 "j'lynn yeates" <jyeates at realtime.net>
writes:
>i really enjoyed that exhibit .. my companion was interested and
>wanted me to explain things to her.. so i did as best as i was able (and
>pointed out several incorrectly labled items)  .. about 1/2 through, after the 
>yurt/ger exhibit, she nudged me (in the middle of a wonderful exposition on 
>the marvels of the functionality of the mongolian "sabre" blade - edge & 
>point for slash & pierce functionality ... if you are weapons cult, always date 
>same (g), when she pointed out that we had attracted a rather large 
>entourage, including a museum guide who were following my commentaries ...
>
>and i thought i was just a neophyte historian (g)
>
>i love this "game" ... grin
>
>'wolf

Oh, yes!  Orianna and I had a similar experience when we saw the
"Treasures of San Marco" (or as we called it, the "Loot from
Constantinople") exhibit at the Met in NYC.  We were remarking on how
some of the objects had evolved over centuries, such as beginning with a
Roman carved stone bowl that had been rimmed in silver by a later owner,
then put on a silver pedestal a century later, with bands of enameled
medallions and semi-precious stones added at an even later date, etc.
Many of the reliquaries showed similar succession in the addition of
further ornamentation over long periods of time.  You can watch the
stylistic developments and become adept at dating the separate elements
in chronological order if you pay close attention.

Anyway, about a third of the way through we became aware that we had a
following.  They would hover just beyond the limits of our 'personal
space' listening to our discussions, then rush up to the item in question
as soon as we drifted on to the next.  They would try to hurry up and see
what we had been talking about so they could slip up within hearing
distance to hear our next conversation.

It was really pretty flattering.  :=)

Hertha

Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 22:20:46 -0900
From: Kerri Canepa <kerric at pobox.alaska.net>
Subject: Information access, was SC - redacting

>I know that although I am a librarian, there are
>libraries I cannot access, even as a professional
>courtesy... I have been told that
>the J. Pierpont Morgan Library in New York City, is
>equally as difficult to use.

I've been lucky in my experience. I have not been denied access to places or
materials although I have been very restricted and always supervised. Heck, I'm
just thrilled to be able to look at items up close and personal that are nearly
a 1000 years old.

Even though I've never been denied, I realize that it could happen to me at some
point. I think the way Mark van Stone handled the situation by going to an
alternative source is the way to deal with denials. I realize that if you want
to research and observe a one-of-a-kind item and you're denied, that
alternatives may not exist, but that may just be the way things are. Private
collections can pick and choose and restrict who they wish. Who are we to say
this is wrong?

There are ways to help gain access to very private collections besides academic
qualifications. Albeit the solutions may be unobtainable (like knowing the
director or a board member or a congressman) but some are not.

If the collection allows membership, by all means, join. Send as much as you
can, promptly, every year. Donations to the collection won't hurt either. If you
plan to publish your research on an item in that collection, send them
information about what you know, what the intent of your publication is, and, if
you know, where it will be published. Then ask if it would be possible to see
the item in question for a VERY specific reason.

Build on what you've done. I've joined the Textile Museum in Washington, DC,
even though I live in Alaska. As a member in 1994, they allowed me access to
about seven different garments from about 400 CE to 1100 CE. There were five
staff people, a friend who came to take sketches, and myself crammed in this
little office. I wasn't allowed to handle the items in any way but I could take
measurements and dictate. They gave me two hours tops. With that experience, I
requested information about Islamic textiles in the Seattle Art Museum. They
sent me an inventory listing. I then asked if I could come and see specific
items and told them about my experience with the Textile Museum and the research
I was doing. In 1996, they allowed a friend and I access to a large number of
textiles that were early 18th c and earlier. There was one technician and we
were not allowed to touch anything. I think we were given about an hour and a
half. With that in 1998, I requested information about Islamic textiles in the
Detroit Museum of Art. They sent an inventory list and when I requested specific
information about one item (mentioning, of course, my experiences with the
Textile Museum and the Seattle Art Museum), they sent a packet of info which
included, among other things, a rather large black and white photo of the item.
I'd love to go to the museum there some time and see the item in person.

True, the Seattle Art Museum and the Detroit Museum of Art are publicly funded
institutions (which will gladly let me join their membership if I so desired),
but the Textile Museum is not. But I can become a member of that museum, so I
have. The point is that I've been able to get information I've been looking for
and I'm no more an academic than a stone.

Sometimes you have to travel quite a distance too. I was researching early 15th
c Italian clothing and really enjoyed the clothes on the funerary sculpture of
Ilaria de Carretto (d. 1405 in Lucca, Italy). I ILLed books, and researched
contemporary art and did all kind of things that I could locally. When my
husband and I decided to go to Italy this year, I made sure we went to Lucca for
a whole day. Me and Ilaria got to spend some serious quality time together. I
have invaluable notes and sketches plus some locally authored books (in Italian
of course) and really detailed postcard photographs on Ilaria and the sculpture.
There's no way I could have done that without leaving Alaska.

I am not a wealthy person; I can't afford to leave the state more than once or
twice a year at that. I do what I can, when I can and I've had a rather high
success rate. All the little "baby steps" I take, slow and ponderous as they
are, seem to work.

Kerri
Cedrin Etainnighean, OL

Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 23:01:54 -0400
From: Karen at stierbach.atlantia.sca.org (Larsdatter, Karen )
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu, authenticity at egroups.com,
        atlantia at atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Website for searching UK museum collections

I tripped over this website today -- while Cornucopia is only a 
"pilot," it has an impressive directory of images & descriptions of 
items in UK museum collections.  Right now it apparently only lists 
items in about fifty museums but this year will include the 
collections of all 1,700 of the registered museums of the Museums 
& Galleries Commission in the UK.  The index is pretty darned 
amazing and I am really looking forward to seeing it fully online.

http://www.cornucopia.org.uk

Karen Larsdatter

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:16:03 -0800
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Travels in Iceland?]

>Then of course there is our one real national treasure, the old
>manuscripts at the ¡rni Magn˙sson Institute (try www.am.hi.is)

The manuscripts are great, but your national treasure isn't the 
manuscripts, it's what was written in them.

Men die, Horses die,
(and parchment eventually dies too, although it takes longer)

I hope they get the museum opened again. My favorite thing in it, on 
a long ago visit, was a case full of hacksilver. Museums, for some 
reason, are unwilling to let you take their jewellery apart to see 
how it is made, so it is nice when someone else has done it for you.
- -- 
David/Cariadoc
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/

To: Librarians of the Known World <SCALibrarians at topica.com>
From: jahb at lehigh.edu
Subject: [SCALibrarians] reviewed in LIIWEEK: ArtAtlas
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 12:16:38 -0400

while far from complete, this does list addresses for some of the
smaller museums among the galleries:

>     Art Atlas: Art Galleries of the World - http://artatlas.com/ 
>         This database provides addresses and telephone numbers
>         for over 5,000 international art galleries. Some entries
>         provide additional information, such as opening hours,
>         list of artists represented, or a link to the gallery's Web
>         site. Searchable by gallery, city, artist's name, or
>         keyword; browsable by major city.
-- 
/   Jennifer Heise, Helpdesk/Librarian, Lehigh Univ. Information Resources
\ \ Fairchild-Martindale Library, 8A Packer Ave, Bethlehem PA 18015 
  / Phone (610) 758-3072          Email: jahb at lehigh.edu

From: "Hrolf Douglasson" <Hrolf at btinternet.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Medieval Feastware references
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:02:47 -0000

The british library and british museum are on line.
so is the Victoria and Albert museum (V&A)
There is a fine collection of pieces from the period in held by The National
Trust and they are on the web
www.nationaltrust.org.uk
they should be able to help you.
the Mary Rose museum cotains stuff from the end of your period
Ahh the advatages of being in The UK

regards
vara

To: SCALibrarians at topica.com
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa <jenne at mail.browser.net>
Subject: [SCALibrarians] museum page of interest
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 15:08:18 -0400 (EDT)

12. The Fitzwilliam Museum
http://www.fitzmuseum.cam.ac.uk/

Perhaps one of the most well-regarded university-affiliated museums in the
world, the Fitzwilliam Museum at the University of Cambridge contains
close to 500,000 different objects ranging from medieval manuscripts to
coins from the Roman occupation of Britain. Visitors to the site will find
that there are also several excellent online exhibits that will introduce
them to the breadth of the collection, ranging from "Medieval Manuscripts:
Illuminating the Law" to an exhibit of the ethereal paintings of J.M.W.
Turner. For researchers, the museum is currently in the process of
creating an online catalogue of their entire collection. Currently, 77,000
items (15% of the museum's total holdings) are available for online record
finding. Besides the online exhibits and the catalogue, there is complete
information on the museum's educational programs, hours of operation, and
upcoming events. [KMG]
-- 
Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise	      jenne at mail.browser.net

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:14:30 -0400
From: Debra Tonjes Zaccaro <dethriel at optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

From: "Heleen Greenwald" <heleen at ptdprolog.net>
> #2:    I have emailed the MET in NYC and the Smithsonian in DC asking if
they allow non-flash photography in their museums. Neither have replied and
it's been a really long time. Does anyone on list know if these two places
allow non-flash photography?

Yes, Museums *WILL* allow **NON-flash** photography.  The flash exposure
does damage to any object, thus it's use is forbidden(tho the guards are
nice about asking you not to do so..).  Fare be warned, if you are doing
this photography thru the cases, make sure you are using film designed for
*seriously* low-light conditions, or are using a good digital camera..and
have at least Adobe photoshop 5.5 in order to play with the image at home.
My husband and I have done this with the digital camera, so contact me if
you have any questions about this.(and good luck in getting quick answers
from Museums, they move like sloths to answer emails.  And snail mails.  And
job applications....)

Althea

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>
To: "Heleen Greenwald" <heleen at ptdprolog.net>, sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 12:06:46 -0400
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS

On 19 Oct 2002, at 19:28, Heleen Greenwald wrote:
> #2: I have emailed the MET in NYC and the Smithsonian in DC asking
> #if they allow non-flash photography in their museums. Neither have
> #replied and it's been a really long time. Does anyone on list know if
> #these two places allow non-flash photography?

>From the Met's website:
http://www.metmuseum.org/visitor/index.asp#Policy

Gallery Photography Policy

Still photography is permitted for private, noncommercial use only in the
Museum's galleries devoted to the permanent collection. Photographs cannot be
published, sold, reproduced, transferred, distributed, or otherwise
commercially exploited in any manner whatsoever. Photography is not permitted
in special exhibitions or areas designated as "No Photography"; works of art
on loan from private collections or other institutions may not be
photographed. The use of a flash is prohibited. Movie and video cameras are
prohibited. Tripods are allowed on weekdays only, and only with a permit
issued by the Information Desk in the Great Hall.
[snipped section about press photography]
The Museum reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to withhold and/or
withdraw permission to photograph on its premises or to reproduce photographs
of objects in its collection.

And the Smithsonian:
http://www.smithsonian.org/visit/security_and_policies.htm

Photography
Hand-held and video cameras are permitted in all permanent collection
galleries but are prohibited in special exhibitions and as otherwise posted.
Flash photography and tripods are not permitted inside the museum building
unless permission is granted by the museum's Public Affairs Office. Some
exceptions apply; check at the museum information desks.

Brighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:30:17 -0600
From: Sue Clemenger <mooncat at in-tch.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS

Not all museums are the same, here....Some museums will allow you to
take pictures, but NOT allow you to use a tripod.  I was amazed at the
variations (and reasons therefor) I found on this when I was in England
and Ireland.  Some places don't allow anything, and usually cite
copyright or security reasons (Museum of London, Costume Museum in Bath,
National Museum in Dublin).  Some places don't particularly care, but
ask you not to use flash in areas that are obviously using subdued
lighting (the V&A, for instance).

--maire

Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 15:03:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Report from England
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

--- Michael Gunter <countgunthar at hotmail.com> wrote:
> She also scored a major coup in the Museum of
> London. She managed to sweet-talk a curator, who
> cleared it with Sir "Soandso" to take photographs
> of the Medieval and Tudor collections. She thinks
> they were shocked that an American, even worse an
> American from Arizona, would be able to discuss
> the Cheapside Horde collection.

Oh, I don't know about that ... Many years ago,
three Caidan knights and their wives/so's went to
England together.  When one couple was touring
the Tower of London, a curator was changing the armor
display.  Of course, Sir Martin became glued to
what he was doing.  Neptha left him to see the
rest, while Martin watched, drooled and
apparently made comments like "Okay, that is how
you should properly attach the vambrace!"  The
curator, thinking that he was a scholar or
curator from America, started talking to him and
was very intrigued when he described the SCA to
him.  The curator then invited Martin to come
back the next day and come to the work room where
he could have a "hands-on" examination of the
various suits of armor that weren't currently on
display. Martin asked if he could bring two
friends and the curator said that that would be
okay.  When the three couples got together that
night to share their experiences, of course,
Martin's story generated the most excitement ...
amongst the men, that is.  So everyone changed
their plans for the next day, the men spent the
day immersed in period armor and the women went
off together to do all the stuff that their men
were grumping about doing and a good time was had
by all.

Huette

From: "Michael Gunter" <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 17:43:33 -0600
Subject: [Sca-cooks] SCAers getting special treats

>The curator, thinking that he was a scholar or
>curator from America, started talking to him and
>was very intrigued when he described the SCA to
>him.  The curator then invited Martin to come
>back the next day and come to the work room where
>he could have a "hands-on" examination of the
>various suits of armor that weren't currently on display.

>Huette

I can actually top that story. A friend of mine has
the most incredible good luck/bad luck I've ever seen.
One of his "good luck" times was when he was visiting
a friend of his who works in the Tower of London. (I
think it was the Tower) As he was talking with a couple
of the curators, one looked him up and down, asked a
couple of questions about his height, weight, etc..
and then asked him if he could help them with an
experiment. Puzzled, my friend agreed. They had him
change into a white body suit and then proceeded to
attach armor to him. Evidently, he is the exact height,
weight and size of the Emperor Maximillion and they had
never had the chance to see how the armor went on a living
body. So my friend got to wear THE Maximillion Plate.
I wouldn't have believed it but he showed me pictures
of him in it with the curators.

Wow.

Gunthar

Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 16:47:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] SCAers getting special treats
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

--- Michael Gunter <countgunthar at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Evidently, he is the exact height,
> weight and size of the Emperor Maximillion and they had
> never had the chance to see how the armor went on a living
> body. So my friend got to wear THE Maximillion Plate.
> I wouldn't have believed it but he showed me pictures
> of him in it with the curators.
>
> Wow.
>
> Gunthar

Yes.  Some people have amazing good fortune.  Me,
I was with SCA friends in the Prado in Madrid and
we were excited about seeing some of the portraits
we had only seen before as small pictures in
badly printed books.  All I ever got was museum
guards telling me that my breath was corrosive
and not to stand so close.  Sigh.

Huette

From: Danielle Jennings <cle0patra.29.85 at googlemail.com>
Date: April 21, 2010 10:09:28 PM CDT
To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: museums and the SCA

In my experience a good or bad encounter starts with the language used. Every curator I have met is more than happy to share their knowledge and expertises with the public (in fact good luck getting them to shut up about their subject area once you have expressed an interest) and will allow access to the collection when it is possible. The key really is to use words and phrases like "research" "reproduction" and "historic reenactment" and avoid phrases like "play" and "we go out and hit each other with sticks." Do your best to present yourself as a serious scholar.

Things to keep in mind.
Have a specific goal in mind. Museums don't really like to open up the collection for browsing (It seems a bit shady when people call up and simply ask to have a look around collections storage, so try opening with something like "I understand you have a set of 16c tapadero's in you collection. I am part of a historic reenactment group and would like some more information on them for a reproduction I would like to make")

If access is denied this is often a policy issue not the curators doing.

Hands off unless permission is given (and wait for gloves after that).

opt for a pencil instead of a pen and bring your own paper.

Ask if you can take pictures before you pull out the camera and turn off the flash.

As in any job there are busy times try to be polite if the staff seems rushed.

Make an appointment and make sure you are speaking with the right person (if you want to look at something in the collection you should probably be speaking to the Curator or Registrar).

Also remember that a lot of museums are digitizing their collections and may have a database on-line available to the public.

Also remember that most museums have an Education Department. These departments often work on a shoestring budget (I am in the Ed. Dept.) A good way for an SCA group to get their foot in the door with a museum that has period artifacts in its collection or is planning to open an exhibit of something in our period, is to call the educator and offer to do an on-site demo. If you tell an educator that you will come out for a few hours on a Saturday and demonstrate medieval arts, crafts and fighting for free, their minds (especially those at smaller museums) immediately jump to "Get the curator out that day to give a thirty minute speech and have a few kids activities like make your own shield and stick horse jousting and that is a cheap and easy family event" We educators love it when groups ask if they can come out and do half the work for us. (And let's face it the SCA is made to do that kind of demo. We even bring our own shade.)

On the flip side, for both departments, the SCA does have a reputation and going in you have no idea what the staff has heard about us. Some have heard nothing (those are often the ones you hope for) Some have seen the movie "Role Models" (They are often at least good humored) Some are familiar with us but see us as somewhat less than say civil war reenactors (they are often a bit snotty towards us, but hey we have way more fun than those civil war guys anyway) And some have us stuck in the days of carpet armor (often these are the ones who wont give us the time of day) 

These are just my observations and may be completely wrong. I have not been in the SCA long and am also relatively new to the museum world (about 4 years in it so far if you count internships) and sadly my work is not closely related to the SCA period (I work at the National Ranching Heritage Center) though if any one is interested I do believe we have a set of 16th or 17th century tapaderos (Spanish shoe shaped stirrups) in the collection. 

I am sorry that this turned out so long and rambling

Pippa

On 21 April 2010 14:41, Stefan li Rous ‪<StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>‬ wrote:
<<< Greetings Pippa,

The reception by museums of SCA people through the years has been mixed, probably because the actions of various SCA folks has varied. I'd like to think that it is improving though. I'd appreciate any comments you might have on this. Either on this list, or to me by private email.  The same goes for anyone else who has worked at museums or has used them for research.

Stefan >>>

Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2010 16:51:20 -0400
From: "Daniel & Elizabeth Phelps" <dephelps at embarqmail.com>
To: "cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] More Odd Sites of Possible  Interest

http://atlasobscura.com/place/german-butcher-s-museum

http://atlasobscura.com/place/european-asparagus-museum

http://atlasobscura.com/place/alinea-restaurant

http://atlasobscura.com/place/osterreichische-nationalbibliothek

http://atlasobscura.com/place/lucha-libre-tacos

http://atlasobscura.com/place/hot-dougs

http://atlasobscura.com/place/mustard-museum

http://atlasobscura.com/place/tajikistan-tearoom

http://atlasobscura.com/place/soci-t-des-caves-de-roquefort-mro

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris	museums-msg	Page  of