Title: bread-stamps-msg
Subject: Stamps used to leave insignia in bread loaves.
Author: Edited by Mark S. Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: medieval, bread, stamp, insignia, impression, symbol, religion

bread-stamps-msg - 3/19/08

Stamps used to leave insignia in bread loaves.

NOTE: See also the files: bread-msg, brd-mk-flat-msg, breadmaking-msg, yeasts-msg, BNYeast-art, religion-msg, leavening-msg, casting-msg.

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:05:23 -0800
From: "Deborah Schumacher" <zoe at antir.com>
Subject: SC - Byzantine Bread Stamps

I was perusing some Byzantine links and came up with  these really neat 
bread presses.  Looking at them I'm not so sure how they would be used 
though. Pressed into flat breads?  Or just indented into a normal round 
loaf before you bake it?
Anyone have any ideas? here is the link to the Bread Stamps
http://www.rom.on.ca/galleries/byzantine/byzdivbread.html

Zoe

Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:35:44 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Byzantine Bread Stamps

These stamps aren't for general use.  One is a Eucharist stamp, which would be
used for imprinting the consecrated bread for Communion.  The bread might
have been similar to the modern Communion wafers or it might have been a
small unleavened loaf.
 
The other is a eulogia stamp for bread given to the faithful, which suggests
that it was for loaves prepared for the Greek Orthodox Church for specific
religious purposes.
 
These stamps would like have been used only for sacremental baking.
 
Depending on the dough and the manner of preparation, the loaves could have
been pressed before being put in the oven or the stamps could have been
heated in the oven and the bread pressed on them to bake.  The second
technique is similar to the method used to press baker's marks in loaves.
 
Bear

Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:13:59 -0500
From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net>
Subject: SC - Fw: Prosphora Stamps (was Byzantine Bread Stamps)

I asked my Byzantine List, and just got a very interesting and detailed
response on the usage of the bread stamps. I hope this helps- I found it
very interesting.

Phlip

Philippa Farrour
Caer Frig
Southeastern Ohio

- -----Original Message-----
From: jgulka at pil.net <jgulka at pil.net>
To: BYZANS-L at lists.missouri.edu <BYZANS-L at lists.missouri.edu>
Date: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 12:38 PM
Subject: Prosphora Stamps

Philippa:
From the dating of the Prosphora Seals ( Sphragis) you
detail, the bread would have been leavened, as was the Byzantine
traditional usage. The issue of leavened/unleavened was an issue
manguÈ until the 11thc, when the issue of leavened vs unleavened
emerged in high (rhetorically and theologically) as an issue in
Greek/Latin  practice. As is well known, the Latin use of unleavened
bread (azyma) instead of leavened bread in the Eucharist was
condemned by the Greeks  (among other reasons) as being a "Jewish
practice", and hence suspect of creeping "Judaizing".Incidentally,
when in 1054 the Latin Azyma had been condemned by Patriarch Michael
Cerularios, the practice of unleavened bread on the part of the
Armenians was at the same time attacked by the mystical theologian
Nicetas Stethatos on the grounds of "Judaizing". Clearly, by 1274,
the time of LYONS II,the term 'Azymite'  had become highly
significant to the Byzantine mind as connoting one with Latin or
"Latinizing" views.

The stamp/sphragis would have been sealed to the topmost
center of the loaf, where, despite the portions of the loaf removed
for specific commemorations,  it became the central locus for the
ritual re-enactment of the passion narrative.

Josef Gulka

http://www.rom.on.ca/galleries/byzantine/byzdivbread.html

Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 09:56:29 -0500
From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net>
Subject: SC - Fw: Prosphora

Here's more on the bread molds.

Phlip

Philippa Farrour
Caer Frig
Southeastern Ohio

- -----Original Message-----
From: Peter Raftos <greeting at zip.com.au>
To: phlip at morganco.net <phlip at morganco.net>
Date: Thursday, March 16, 2000 1:04 AM
Subject: Prosphora

>Hi Phillipa,
>I've seen your posts concerning prosphora on Byzans-L and the SCA cooks
>list. As you know, bread and grain were "controlled substances" -
>especially in C'nople- because of their sometime scarcity as well as the
>fact that commercial life was controlled in a pretty sophisticated way
>( see the 9th C Book of the Eparch  by Leo VI
>To eparchikon biblion. The book of the Eparch.
>Ed as Le livre du Prefet. With an introd. by Ivan Dujcev. (London:
>Variorum Reprints, 1970)
>English trans. The Book of the Eparch. Byzantine Guilds, Professional
>and Commerical Ordinannces of Leo VI. C. 895 from the Book of the
>Eparch, trans. E. H. Freshfield, (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press,
>1938)
>English trans. Book of the Prefect, trans A.E.R.Boak, Journal of
>Economic and Business History, 1 (1929), 600-19 )
>
>This book out lines wonderful things like when fires had to be put out
>and who had exemptions from specific rules. Breadmaking and supply were
>a "big deal" which for many of us, with supermarkets and
>industrialisation, is literally a thing of the past (
>http://crh.choate.edu/history/_discfall/00000087.htm ). Outside of the
>church I believe that bread stamps were used to denote point of origin
>and to control the supply of bread ( not to mention paying taxes). The
>church's practice seems to be a vestigal imperial practice which may go
>back to Late Antiquity or earlier. I have no references yet as it is
>something that needs more research time than I have. Modern prosphora
>stamps can be of wood or plastic. In the past they have been made of
>wood, ceramic, and metal. Designs have varied over the ages but have
>settled at one (at least in the Greek Orthodox Church). Anti-doron is
>the bread given out to those not participating in communion. I can't
>recall seeing it stamped but it may have been in Byzantine times for the
>reasons mentioned above.
>
>Here are some helpful links. The first link is the most comprehensive
>and also has Orthodox Paschal, Lenten and Festal recipes as well as a
>recipe for Kollyva...boiled grain offering for the dead, a lovely pagan
>practice which goes back to Ancient Greece. The other two are useful for
>understanding the Orthodox perspective on bread.
>
>http://www.prosphora.org/
>http://www.theologic.com/oflweb/inchurch/prosphor.htm
>http://www.suc.org/culture/library/religious/Lord_Teach_Us_To_Pray/Prosphor
a.html
>
>If you have a local Orthodox church they sometimes have a good library
>and will often let you research there if not borrow books. Yes these
>books have an orthodox ecclesiastical bent but if you read between the
>lines much information and other sources can be culled. Another nice
>essay on Byzantium is to be found at found at
>http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/epstein_trends.html
>
> And did you know sauerkraut is period for Byzantium. Monasteries today
>still make the stuff. 

Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 19:22:43 -0700
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at efn.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Roman Baker's Mark photo

>Forwarded this news from SCA-bakers. Saw the photo and it's wonderfully
>clear. I only wonder how it would be used. I thought the marks were put
>UNDER the loaf.....
>
>Aoife
>
>Photo of roman Baker's mark:
>http://www.ancient-art.com/images/a511.jpg

If you put it underneath it's obliterated during baking. Baker's stamps (at
least to my knowledge) in the MA were done on top. I'll bet Bear has more
info though...

'Lainie
-thought it was cute though- a foot, with lettering...

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Roman Baker's Mark photo
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 00:02:39 -0500

Jeremy Fletcher is the man when you are discussing baker's marks.  He is
about the only person who has done any recent research on them.  In fact,
the original message on the bakers list was directed to him.

Bear

>If you put it underneath it's obliterated during baking. Baker's stamps (at
>least to my knowledge) in the MA were done on top. I'll bet Bear has more
>info though...
>
>'Lainie

Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 16:20:23 -0700
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: david friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Roman Baker's Mark photo

'Lainie wrote (about a month ago):
>If you put it underneath it's obliterated during baking. Baker's stamps (at
>least to my knowledge) in the MA were done on top. I'll bet Bear has more
>info though...

My understanding of baker's marks (this is from memory from talking
with Wulfric the Mad Baker/Jeremy Fletcher of the West Kingdom) is
that the baker's mark is a little lump of some shape, that being the
shape you want imprinted in your bread, and you put it under the loaf
while it bakes; when you take the loaf out of the oven and remove the
baker's mark, its shape is baked into the bottom of the bread.

Elizabeth/Betty Cook

From: "Lis" <liontamr at ptd.net>
To: <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>, <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Roman Baker's Mark photo
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:17:48 -0400 

Thanks for your comments re: bakers marks. I was puzzling over this one as
well. It makes no sense to place the mark on the top of the loaf, as that
would impede the rise. In addition, I've seen many images of loaves from our
period of study, and NONE of those images showed a stamp, mark or shape, etc
on top, though many DID show other marks such as cuts common to improve the
rise of the bread in the oven. I've looked at the websites and other webinfo on the subject and I'm not convinced.

However, this is why I was puzzled by the assertion that this was a baker's
mark----it wouldn't be possible to put this one UNDER the loaf due to it's
handle. Is there any reason to suppose that the marks weren't on the SIDE?

I'm aware that baking practices in ancient Rome and M.A./Ren England
wouldn't necessarily be the same, but.... 

Aoife

Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 01:24:31 -0400
From: John Kemker <john at kemker.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Need help with a translation [Slightly OT]
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Carole Smith wrote:
> Wulfric told me you have to leave the baker's mark in the bread while 
> it bakes.
>
> Cordelia

That's what I gathered, merely from his pictures.  He shows the baker's
mark sitting on the hearthstone in his oven.  He then places the loaves
of risen dough on the marks and bakes them.  When the bread comes out,
he pops the mark off the bottom of the loaf and you can see the
impression on the bottom.

Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:45:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kathleen Madsen <kmadsen12000 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Squirrels and Bread Marks
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

BTW, there was much talk last week about the baker's
mark that Master Wulfric uses.  He was out at our
house on Saturday doing a cooking demo for the Barony,
making sausages and bread.  The marker, he says,
almost always makes a clear impression where the word
that is part of it can usually be read.  The marker is
a 1.75 inch diameter disk and you can see it on his
website.
http://www.whirlwind-design.com/madbaker/marks.html

I have two loaves baking in the oven right now for
this weekend's event.  I know, I know, it should be
fresh - but I work two Farmer's Market's on Friday's
and my day is *completely* booked.  I'm lucky if I can
get an hour to nap between the two.  ;)

Eibhlin

Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 23:59:27 -0400
From: "Saint Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Byzantine bread stamps
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

From the Byzantine List:
<<<
<http://www.iconastas.co.uk/stock.asp?Cat=5>
<http://www.cookieboard.com/Home%20Pages/Related2.html>

On both of these pages are Byzantine bread stamps. The second page has info
on why they were used, but I wonder how they were used. Were bread loaves
baked on top of them?

Samia
>>>
-- 
Saint Phlip

Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 08:26:35 -0400
From: "Saint Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Byzantine bread stamps
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

More on bread stamps, from a modern site, that gives links to early
information.

http://www.prosphora.org/

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris	bread-stamps-msg	Page  of