Title: cheese-breads-msg
Subject: Period cheese bread or biscuit recipes.
Author: Edited by Mark S. Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: bread, cheese, pipe, biscuit, cracker, bake, fried

cheese-breads-msg - 12/23/10

Period cheese bread or biscuit recipes.

NOTE: See also the files: bread-msg, brd-mk-flat-msg, rissoles-msg, cheesemaking-msg, cheese-msg, Aged-Cheese-art, Cheese-Histry-art, fried-cheese-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:37:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" <pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Non-SCA food passions?

Currently I'm working on the "pipes" recipe from the "Wel ende edelike 
spijse" manuscript*. I bought a new mortar and pestle (one of those huge 
Thai granite ones) and now a cheesemaking friend of mine has made me a 
Gouda for use once I get the recipe to where I want it. One trial down, 
some unknown number to go...

*1.21. Dough to make "pipes".
Take cheese from Gouda and eggs. Grind together with white flour. Lay it 
on dry flour and make small biscuits of it.

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 09:44:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: wheezul at canby.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cheese bread

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010, Stefan li Rous wrote:
<<< Are these shaped like roundish biscuits? Or like "cheese straws"? ie:
"pipes"? >>>

<< You've just read the recipe, you tell me. ;-) >>

<<< Are you supposed to fry these? Or bake them? >>>

I struggled with deciding on choosing the meaning of pipe/tube in a recipe
recently.  The recipe for 'strauben' (funnel cakes) in Anna Wecker's
cookbook uses the word 'rohren' (pipes/tubes) for the shape that flows
from the funnel into the frying pan.  Rohren (or forms of it) are also the
word used to distinguish the number of branches on a candlestick or ring. 
Ultimately I settled on 'pipes'.

I'd guess that the recipe might imply to roll out the dough on dry flour
(to keep it from sticking to the board) into pipe shapes and then cook it.
I also wonder what sort of nuance is present in the word for biscuit - do
you have the original untranslated version?  If it is gebacken or a
version of it, they can be both fried or baked.

Are the recipes preceding this one available?  I'm finding that there can
be a stream of consciousness about preparation method that runs through a
series in Anna Wecker's cookbook, but I have never looked at this
particular document (can you tell me more about it?)

Katherine

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 12:25:28 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cheese bread

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010, Stefan li Rous wrote:
<<< Are these shaped like roundish biscuits? Or like "cheese straws"? ie: 
"pipes"? >>>

<< You've just read the recipe, you tell me. ;-)
/Margaret >>

Let me point out that "pipe" can mean tubular, cylindrical, icicle, or frill 
work depending on usage.  The original recipe language might provide a 
further clue as to what is meant.

I would also say that this is probably baked and wouldn't read too much into 
the "lay on dry flour."  It appears to me to be "work your dough on a 
floured surface to keep it from sticking."

Bear 

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 12:43:07 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cheese bread

<<< I struggled with deciding on choosing the meaning of pipe/tube in a recipe
recently.  The recipe for 'strauben' (funnel cakes) in Anna Wecker's
cookbook uses the word 'rohren' (pipes/tubes) for the shape that flows
from the funnel into the frying pan.  Rohren (or forms of it) are also the
word used to distinguish the number of branches on a candlestick or ring.
Ultimately I settled on 'pipes'.

I'd guess that the recipe might imply to roll out the dough on dry flour
(to keep it from sticking to the board) into pipe shapes and then cook it.
I also wonder what sort of nuance is present in the word for biscuit - do
you have the original untranslated version?  If it is gebacken or a
version of it, they can be both fried or baked.

Are the recipes preceding this one available?  I'm finding that there can
be a stream of consciousness about preparation method that runs through a
series in Anna Wecker's cookbook, but I have never looked at this
particular document (can you tell me more about it?)

Katherine >>>

Interesting.  Rohr can refer to "reed" or the thin round cane used in 
wickerwork.  Wecker may be referring to the similarity between woven reed 
and the shapes produced by funnel cakes.

Bear 

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 13:01:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" <pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cheese bread

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010, wheezul at canby.com wrote:
<<< Are the recipes preceding this one available?  I'm finding that there can
be a stream of consciousness about preparation method that runs through a
series in Anna Wecker's cookbook, but I have never looked at this
particular document (can you tell me more about it?)

Katherine >>>

It's a 15th century Dutch manuscript.

http://www.coquinaria.nl/kooktekst/Edelikespijse0.htm

The reason I am working with this recipe specifically is because it is the 
recipe in the manuscript that is the most vague. There is a recipe for 
"Pasties on plates" farther along in the MS. that calls for the dough from 
1.21 as stuffing for meatball-filled fried turnover things but that's the 
only other time it's used, and there you're putting the cheese biscuits 
on the pasty dough along with the meatballs.

There is a recipe for "stuffing" at the beginning but it includes a list 
of suggestions as to how it could be used. The recipe for "pipes", as you 
will note, says nothing about how it is to be used.

The modern Dutch translation uses the word "koekjes" which, depending on 
which dictionary you use, can mean "small cake", "cookie", "biscuit", 
"bannock", or "cupcake", so it at least implies baking rather than 
frying. The plan is to experiment and see what I come up with.

Margaret

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 11:17:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: wheezul at canby.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cheese bread

<<< I struggled with deciding on choosing the meaning of pipe/tube in a recipe
recently.  The recipe for 'strauben' (funnel cakes) in Anna Wecker's
cookbook uses the word 'rohren' (pipes/tubes) for the shape that flows
from the funnel into the frying pan.  Rohren (or forms of it) are also
the word used to distinguish the number of branches on a candlestick or
ring.  Ultimately I settled on 'pipes'.

I'd guess that the recipe might imply to roll out the dough on dry flour
(to keep it from sticking to the board) into pipe shapes and then cook it.
I also wonder what sort of nuance is present in the word for biscuit - do
you have the original untranslated version?  If it is gebacken or a
version of it, they can be both fried or baked.

Katherine >>>

<< Interesting.  Rohr can refer to "reed" or the thin round cane used in
wickerwork.  Wecker may be referring to the similarity between woven reed
and the shapes produced by funnel cakes.

Bear >>

I'll let the recipe do the talking:

Page 67
Strauben von Mandeln
Mach ein gute dicke Mandelmilch/Klopff Eyer darein/fast Eyer und Milch
gleich/thu ein wenig salz und zucker darein/von wegen des schmalzes/ein
wenig Rosewasser/mach mit Sch?nem Meel ein straubenteig nicht zu
d?nn/bachs wie andere strauben/oder lauter stern/mit ziemlichen
r?hrlein/nit zu klein/leges auff ein sch?nes wei?tuch/darnach bestrewe es
wol mit Zucker/sie werden sch?n unnd gut.  Also magstu s?sse Oepffel klein
hacken/und in einen straubenteig thun und mit grossen r?hren backen/sind
fast gut.

My attempt at translation:

Almond funnel cakes
Make a good thick almond milk/beat eggs into it/mix the eggs and milk
together/add a bit of salt and sugar into it/from a weight of fat/a bit of
rosewater/make with nice (fine?) flour into a strauben batter not too
thin/bake as for other strauben/or plain stars/with seemly [appropiate
sized] pipes [understood smallish]/not too small/lay on a clean white
cloth/thereon strew well with sugar/they are nice and good.  Also you can
hack sweet apples small/and put in a strauben batter and bake with large
pipes/[they]are quite good.

These actually sound really nummy.  Even if apples are diced small, the
'pipes' still are of a somewhat larger size than a reed.  Welser has a
recipe, I think, for the lauter sternen.  Rontzier says to fry strauben in
butter.

Katherine

Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 15:14:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: wheezul at canby.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cheese bread

<<< The modern Dutch translation uses the word "koekjes" which, depending on
which dictionary you use, can mean "small cake", "cookie", "biscuit",
"bannock", or "cupcake", so it at least implies baking rather than
frying. The plan is to experiment and see what I come up with.

Margaret >>>

Well, I see no stream of consciousness there :)

The old Dutch seems to be coukelkins.  I know that kins is the diminutive
form like we use 'lets' in English or chen in German.  So cakelets? 
Little cakes? I was under the impression that versions of the word for
cake in Dutch were also used for fritters - oliekoeken.  I don't know
enough about Dutch to be sure about anything, but I wonder what the word
for pancake is?  It may be similar to the German pfannkuchen? Is the word
for cake usually modified when a method other than baking is used in
Dutch?

In another line of thought, related to how the German word for gebachens
can mean either baked or fried (which can be a contextual puzzle
sometimes), I started to think that perhaps a 15th century cook didn't
perceive that there was a definitive method to make the item.  For
example, if the oven wasn't heated that day, and the cook had some
leftover fat drippings, the choice would be to fry it instead of bake it.
So in theory the driving force in the process where there may be more than
one way to prepare the food was more dependent on the type of facility and
ingredients that were available for the preparation.  On the other hand,
it could be a function of any cook should *Know* this stuff - as in Anna
Wecker's defining different types of batter thickness by comparison to a
funnel cake batter as a reference.

I don't think I have anything more that may be in the least useful to add :)

Katherine

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris	cheese-breads-msg	 of