Title: pancakes-msg
Subject: Period pancakes and pancake-like foods. waffles.
Author: Edited by Mark Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: pancake, blini, waffle, crepe, fry, fried, griddle, medieval

pancakes-msg – 2/12/12

Period pancakes and pancake-like foods. Waffles-msg.

NOTE: See also the files: utensils-msg, flour-msg, pizza-msg, brd-mk-flat-msg,  French-Toast-msg, breakfast-msg, fried-breads-msg, wafers-msg, yeasts-msg,  sugar-msg.

************************************************************************
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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:03:32 EDT
From: Tollhase1 at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Anthro and cooking

You could be correct.  My association with them is a Kosher deli I grew up in
on Saturday mornings.  I never could understand why all the stores were
closed in that neighborhood.  There does seem to be common type of thin
pancake common throughout Europe.  From the French crepes, Russian Blini,
Jewish Blintz.  I believe a Hungarian French made something similar, but I do
not know it name.  They all can be served with either a savory or a sweet
filling.

Frederich

Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:22:37 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Anthro and cooking

Varju at aol.com wrote:
> Tollhase1 at aol.com writes:
> << So you mean blintzes.  I like mine with sour cream and blueberries. >>
>
> Still not quite. . .the blini I have had were made with a buckwheat flour and
> were not noticeably sweet.  They were served on a plate by themselves with
> the sour cream and caviar availible to dip the blini in or, as some people
> did, put a thin layer of caviar with a thin layer of sour cream on them and
> then roll.  As i said they are pretty unique. . .

I agree, to a point. Blini and blintzes are probably similar in that
they're both pancakes, and probably derive from the same word, which
probably just means "pancakes", but there the resemblance really does end.

Blintzes are usually an eggy, crepe-y pancake, similar to canneloni, and
generally made with lightly beaten egg as the only leavening.

Blini are usually made with both yeast _and_ beaten egg yolks and
semi-stiff beaten egg white folded in at the end, so they're quite a lot
higher or thicker, and less dense, than blintzes. They'd be impossible
to roll up as they usually are, since they're so thick, if it weren't
for their inherent sponginess and a near-soaking in melted butter
traditionally applied before the sour cream, caviar, etc.

Blini are also generally _much_ smaller than blintzes, perhaps two or
three inches across, in my experience. You don't roll them up and tuck
in the ends as you might with a blintz, more often you fold it either in
quarters, or, as with a cornmeal "hard" taco, just over the filling.

Adamantius

Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 17:48:44 -0500
From: Jenn/Yana <jdmiller2 at students.wisc.edu>
Subject: Subject: Re: SC - Anthro and cooking

Adamantius wrote:
>Blini are usually made with both yeast _and_ beaten egg yolks and
>semi-stiff beaten egg white folded in at the end, so they're quite a lot
>higher or thicker, and less dense, than blintzes. They'd be impossible
>to roll up as they usually are, since they're so thick, if it weren't
>for their inherent sponginess and a near-soaking in melted butter
>traditionally applied before the sour cream, caviar, etc.
>
>Blini are also generally _much_ smaller than blintzes, perhaps two or
>three inches across, in my experience. You don't roll them up and tuck
>in the ends as you might with a blintz, more often you fold it either in
>quarters, or, as with a cornmeal "hard" taco, just over the filling.

In our experience blini _are_ made using yeast, but they are _definitely_
able to be rolled up per experience with the Maslenitsa (Butter) Festival
in Moscow, and are sized to fit right inside a standard 8" to 10" tortilla
warmer (a friend in Moscow spent a few years in El Paso and was delighted
to find that the "Americans" had made something so perfect for keeping
blini at the right temperature).  They have the thickness of French crepes
but not the sweetness.  And they are not always made of buckwheat, although
that seems to be the flour most Americans associate with them.
*************************************************************************
Ilyana Barsova (Yana)  jdmiller2 at students.wisc.edu
http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~jdmiller2
Slavic Interest Group http://www.uwplatt.edu/~goldschp/slavic.html

Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:18:23 -0800
From: "James F. Johnson" <seumas at mind.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: SC - Anthro and cooking

Jenn/Yana wrote:
> In our experience blini _are_ made using yeast, but they are _definitely_

Most of the recipes I've seen do indeed call for a fermented pancake,
sometimes with the batter prepared the day or night before.

Wheat, rye, and buckwheat are the flours I've always heard called for in
blini. I suspect the buckwheat may be more common the farther east one
goes in Russia.

I noted that 'kasha' was predominately buckwheat, but Dima told me it
could refer to any grain: wheat, rye, barley, buckwheat, and even rice.

Only once were my blini not served folded up in quarters, and that time,
the blini were of the same size, they had just not been folded. Could be
a regional serving practice in Chita 'Oblast.

This is making me a little 'home'sick.....

Seumas

Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 19:24:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: SC - two paintings showing waffles

Someone, a few days ago, asked about what paintings
had pictures of waffles and pancakes in them.  I have not
had the time to do much research on this yet, but I
found two period paintings that have waffles depicted
in them, that had been webbed.  The site talks about
costumes, but still is valuable for their kitchen
views.

The URL is:
http://www.lepg.org/gallery.htm

or, more specifically:
http://www.lepg.org/veggirl.jpg

This painting by Pieter Aertsen, from 1567, is called
"Market woman with vegetable stall."  To the viewers
left are three waffles laying around.

also:
http://www.lepg.org/waffles.jpg

This painting by Joachim de Beuckalaer was painted
sometime during 1550-1560. It is called, most
appropriately, "Making waffles."  To the viewers lower
right, you will see several waffles laying on a table.
However, more importantly, you will see, in the center
of the painting, a young woman holding a waffle iron
in one hand and just about to ladle some batter from a
tureen with a wooden spoon in her other hand.

I know there are several more paintings, which I will
find and post as I find them.

Huette

Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:17:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: SC - More waffle and pancake paintings

Here are more paintings that show waffles and
pancakes, although most of them are post-SCA period.

From Katie Stewart's book "The Joy of Eating",
pages 86-87.  Unfortunately, Ms. Stewart does not give
us the name of the artist or the name of the painting,
but the painting appears to be dated 1560.  We see a
multigenerational family, grandparents, parents and
baby. Next to the grandfather is a plate of waffles,
next to the mother is a plate of pancakes.  The
grandmother is making the pancakes in the background,
using a skillet to make the pancakes.  The skillet is
suspended over the fire by a large ring attached to a
set of chains.

From Peter Rose's book, "The Sensible Cook", we find
these paintings:

Page 2: Jan Steen, "The 12th Night Feast"
Jan Steen 1626-1679.
Page 15: Willem Buytewech, "Interior" 1610.
Page 22: Jan Steen, "The St. Nicholas Celebration"
Page 77: Nicholas Maes, "The Pancake Maker"
Nicholas Maes 1634-1693.
Page 117: No artist or date: "Sweet meal"

Huette

Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:55:48 -0500
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - More waffle and pancake paintings

And it came to pass on 6 Dec 99,, that Huette von Ahrens wrote:
> Here are more paintings that show waffles and
> pancakes, although most of them are post-SCA period.
>
> >From Katie Stewart's book "The Joy of Eating",
> pages 86-87.  Unfortunately, Ms. Stewart does not give
> us the name of the artist or the name of the painting,
> but the painting appears to be dated 1560.

There is a painting, apparently by the same artist, at:
http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/lowerclass/images/waffles.jpg
It is identified as: "Making Waffles" by Joachim Beuckelaer, 1565.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 14:24:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: SC - Waffles (was: Chambord)

- --- CBlackwill at aol.com wrote:
> michael.gunter at fnc.fujitsu.com writes: 
> >  Their reasoning was that I still use a hand crank
> can opener but I have a period waffle maker.
> 
> Oohh...Period waffles?  (rubbing hands together with childish grin on his 
> face) Recipe, please?  Also, how about a description of that waffle maker?  I 
> would LOVE to have one.  Where'd you pick it up?
> 
> Balthazar of Blackmoor

We had a long discussion about waffle, pancakes and
French toast last November, before you joined the
list. All are documentably period.

The period waffle maker mentioned can be documented
thru several Dutch painting which show ladies with
long handled waffle irons that you fill with batter
and stick in the fire to cook.  These manual waffle
irons [as opposed to the electric kind] have been
around forever, it would seem.  You can still by them
in kitchen supply stores and in camping equipment
stores.

Here are list of paintings and books where I found
such:

>From Katie Stewart's book "The Joy of Eating",
pages 86-87.  Unfortunately, Ms. Stewart does not give
us the name of the artist or the name of the painting,
but the painting appears to be dated 1560.  We see a
multigenerational family, grandparents, parents and
baby. Next to the grandfather is a plate of waffles,
next to the mother is a plate of pancakes.  The
grandmother is making the pancakes in the background,
using a skillet to make the pancakes.  The skillet is
suspended over the fire by a large ring attached to a
set of chains. 

>From Peter Rose's book, "The Sensible Cook", we find
these paintings:

Page 2: Jan Steen, "The 12th Night Feast"
Jan Steen 1626-1679.
Page 15: Willem Buytewech, "Interior" 1610.
Page 22: Jan Steen, "The St. Nicholas Celebration"
Page 77: Nicholas Maes, "The Pancake Maker"
Nicholas Maes 1634-1693.
Page 117: No artist or date: "Sweet meal"

Here is a website that has a painting by Beuckelaer,
dated 1565, that shows waffle making.

http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/lowerclass/images/waffles.jpg

It is identified as: "Making Waffles" by Joachim
Beuckelaer, 1565.

Huette

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:48:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: SC - Pancakes and waffles.

- --- Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at algonet.se> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 May 2000 LrdRas at aol.com wrote: 
> > << Frankly, I refuse to object to pancakes,
> scrambled eggs, French toast... >>
> > 
> > That's a good thing since they are period foods.
> ;-)
> 
> Pancakes? To quote someone "recipie, please". I know a young lady who
> would very much want to be able to ducument them, but I haven't seen any
> recipies, to her great dismay. 

>From "De Verstandige Kock" [Dutch 1667, the preface
says that many of the recipes in this cookbook copy
those from "Eenen Seer Schonen/ende Excellenten
Coc-boeck" published in 1589.  This is the only period
Dutch cookbook that has been translated into English.
There are many paintings of pancakes and waffles that
are pre-1600.  Please see my post from last week or
so.]

Huette

1) To fry common Pancakes.

For each pond of Wheat-flour take a pint of sweet Milk
and 3 Eggs.  Some add some sugar to it.

2) To fry the best kind of Pancakes.

Take 5 or 6 Eggs with clean, running water, add to it
Cloves, Cinnamon, Mace, and Nutmeg with some Salt,
beat it with some Wheat-flour as thick as you like,
fry them and sprinkle them with Sugar; these are
prepared with running water because with Milk or Cream
they would be tough.

3) To fry Groeninger Pancakes.

Take a pond of Wheat-flour, 3 Eggs, a quarter pond of
Currants and Some Cinnamon, this is fried in Butter. 
Is good.

4) To fry Waffles.

For each pond of Wheat-flour take a pint of sweet
Milk, a little tin bowl of melted Butter with 3 or 4
Eggs, a spoonful of Yeast well stirred together.

5) To fry Wafers.

Take a pond Wheat-flour, a loot Cinnamon, a half loot
Ginger, 2 Eggs, a half beer glass Rhenish-wine, a
stuyver Rosewater, a small bowl Butter without Salt, a
little Sugar; beaten with some lukewarm water until
the thickness of Pancake [batter] and fried in the
iron.  Is delicious.

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 00:22:20 EDT
From: CBlackwill at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Speculating on breakfast ...

ahrenshav at yahoo.com writes:
> As far as I have seen, there is no documentation as to
>  when waffles, french toast or pancakes were eaten,
>  although there is a painting of a 12th Night Feast
>  that has waffles as part of the feast and it was
>  clearly an evening meal.  

The Larousse Gastronomique has a reference to oublies (period waffles) being 
sold from merchant carts both night and day.  No documentation for this, 
unfortunately, but its pretty easy to believe.  The recipe I have posted is 
pretty darned good, regardless of when served.

Balthazar of Blackmoor

Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 01:52:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Waffles and Books

- --- david friedman <ddfr at best.com> wrote:
> At 9:45 AM +0200 6/30/00, Cindy M. Renfrow wrote:
> >IIRC, Le Menagier gives several recipes for 'crisps' batter. Waffles,
> >wafers, crisps, whatever you want to call them are very old.
> >
> >Cindy

> 3. Modern waffles: Waffle pattern, but thick with a pancake like texture.
> 
> Off hand, I am not sure I have seen anything that is clearly made 
> like a modern waffle. One thing worth checking is whether there are 
> any surviving wafer irons, and if so if the separation between the 
> plates is thin, as in a modern wafer iron, or thick, as in a waffle 
> iron.
> 
> David/Cariadoc
> http://www.daviddfriedman.com/

From "De Verstandige Kock" [Dutch 1667, the preface
says that many of the recipes in this cookbook copy
those from "Eenen Seer Schonen/ende Excellenten
Coc-boeck" published in 1589.  This is the only period
Dutch cookbook that has been translated into English.
There are many paintings of pancakes and waffles that
are pre-1600.  

If you look at the commentary in the fifth recipe, you
will see that it refers to make the batter the same
thickness of pancake batter.

From all of the painting and drawings I have seen, my
opinion is that the Dutch waffles/wafers/etc. are
thick.

1) To fry common Pancakes.

For each pond of Wheat-flour take a pint of sweet Milk
and 3 Eggs.  Some add some sugar to it.

2) To fry the best kind of Pancakes.

Take 5 or 6 Eggs with clean, running water, add to it
Cloves, Cinnamon, Mace, and Nutmeg with some Salt,
beat it with some Wheat-flour as thick as you like,
fry them and sprinkle them with Sugar; these are
prepared with running water because with Milk or Cream
they would be tough.

3) To fry Groeninger Pancakes.

Take a pond of Wheat-flour, 3 Eggs, a quarter pond of
Currants and Some Cinnamon, this is fried in Butter. 
Is good.

4) To fry Waffles.

For each pond of Wheat-flour take a pint of sweet
Milk, a little tin bowl of melted Butter with 3 or 4
Eggs, a spoonful of Yeast well stirred together.

5) To fry Wafers.

Take a pond Wheat-flour, a loot Cinnamon, a half loot
Ginger, 2 Eggs, a half beer glass Rhenish-wine, a
stuyver Rosewater, a small bowl Butter without Salt, a
little Sugar; beaten with some lukewarm water until
the thickness of Pancake [batter] and fried in the
iron.  Is delicious.

Here are two URLs that show paintings of period
waffles:
http://www.lepg.org/gallery.htm

or, more specifically:
http://www.lepg.org/veggirl.jpg

This painting by Pieter Aertsen, from 1567, is called
"Market woman with vegetable stall."  To the viewers
left are three waffles laying around.

also:
http://www.lepg.org/waffles.jpg

This painting by Joachim de Beuckalaer was painted
sometime during 1550-1560. It is called, most
appropriately, "Making waffles."  To the viewers lower
right, you will see several waffles laying on a table.
However, more importantly, you will see, in the center
of the painting, a young woman holding a waffle iron
in one hand and just about to ladle some batter from a
tureen with a wooden spoon in her other hand. 

From Katie Stewart's book "The Joy of Eating",
pages 86-87.  Unfortunately, Ms. Stewart does not give
us the name of the artist or the name of the painting,
but the painting appears to be dated 1560.  We see a
multigenerational family, grandparents, parents and
baby. Next to the grandfather is a plate of waffles,
next to the mother is a plate of pancakes.  The
grandmother is making the pancakes in the background,
using a skillet to make the pancakes.  The skillet is
suspended over the fire by a large ring attached to a
set of chains. 

From Peter Rose's book, "The Sensible Cook", we find
these paintings:

Page 2: Jan Steen, "The 12th Night Feast"
Jan Steen 1626-1679.
Page 15: Willem Buytewech, "Interior" 1610.
Page 22: Jan Steen, "The St. Nicholas Celebration"
Page 77: Nicholas Maes, "The Pancake Maker"
Nicholas Maes 1634-1693.
Page 117: No artist or date: "Sweet meal"

I am sure that Cariadoc will dismiss these as being
"Early Modern", but I think that they are still within
SCA period.

It is hard to say if whether or not they were served
to the nobility in Holland.  Most paintings show
common people making them.  Others are in still lifes.

Huette

Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 01:59:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Waffles and Books

- --- david friedman <ddfr at best.com> wrote:
> At 8:16 AM -0400 6/30/00, alysk at ix.netcom.com wrote: 
> >I've seen square and round waffles in pictures.
> 
> Is it clear they are waffles (thick, pancake
> texture) rather than wafers (similar pattern, thin, crisp)?
> 
> David Friedman

To my eyes they are waffles [as in thick] rather than
wafers [as in thin].  However, the Dutch do not seem
to distinguish between the two words from the one
cookbook that has been translated into English.

Huette

Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 22:05:51 -0500
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Waffles and Books

At 1:52 AM -0700 7/1/00, Huette von Ahrens wrote:
>4) To fry Waffles.
>
>For each pond of Wheat-flour take a pint of sweet
>Milk, a little tin bowl of melted Butter with 3 or 4
>Eggs, a spoonful of Yeast well stirred together.
>
>5) To fry Wafers.
>
>Take a pond Wheat-flour, a loot Cinnamon, a half loot
>Ginger, 2 Eggs, a half beer glass Rhenish-wine, a
>stuyver Rosewater, a small bowl Butter without Salt, a
>little Sugar; beaten with some lukewarm water until
>the thickness of Pancake [batter] and fried in the
>iron.  Is delicious.

I gather there are two different Dutch words here, which are being 
translated "wafer" and "waffle." Do we know how far back the words 
go, and is there additional evidence on the difference in their 
meaning? Is there a Dutch equivalent of the OED where one can find 
such information?

>Here are two URLs that show paintings of period
>waffles:

I think the pictures look more like waffles than wafers, but I'm not 
sure one can say for certain--although it might be clearer from the 
original than from the webbed version, which has a lot less detail.

>I am sure that Cariadoc will dismiss these as being
>"Early Modern", but I think that they are still within SCA period.

I don't think I ever use that term. In the culinary context, I prefer 
"nouvelle cuisine."

17th century is not within SCA period, although what is happening in 
the 17th century is some evidence of what was happening during the 
16th century. But the webbed pictures you cite are within our 
period--and are probably showing waffles.

David/Cariadoc
http://www.daviddfriedman.com/

Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 19:11:01 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - I'm not proud....HELP!!!!!!!!!!

Black Jade wrote:
> Our Baroness was only recently (in the general scheme of things)  informed
> that she had Coleiac.  As a result, things are pretty sketchy as to what
> she can and can't eat.  She has stated that she hates all gluten free
> breads cuase they 'don't taste right'  She's pretty much substituted that
> with rice cakes (Those horrible health things that look and taste like
> packing polestyrene)

A better alternative for the event might be these; this is the
Fettiplace recipe I mentioned earlier (yesterday???)

"A FRENCH DISH

" Blanche almonds in cold water, then beat them verie smale, then take
boyled rice, & beat them together with sugar, and rosewater, then mould
them in flower like flat cakes, then frie them in butter & then put
sugar on them, and serve them."

Spurling's notes, or rather, some of them:

"For 4 oz. ground almonds and 4 oz. boiled rice, you will need 2
tablespoons rosewater and 1 or 2 rounded teaspoons of sugar, which makes
a paste easily shaped into small flat cakes for frying. I like these
cakes the plainer the better so as to increase the contrast of sweetness
and texture under a thick strewing of sugar at table. They are better
still served with one of Kenelm Digby's frothy little sauces, made from
sherry, sugar and butter beaten up in the pan as soon as you have
finished cooking the last batch of cakes."

In short, rice and almond latkes. Sort of...

Adamantius

Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:54:08 -0500 
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - dayboard (Ruzzige cake; Buch von guter Speise #52)

I would would say "ein blat von eyern" is an egg and flour dough rolled very
thin.  A crepe would not need the butter under it.  Putting butter under the
dough suggests that it might be there to soften the crust and keep the crust
from sticking.

Sauting the herbs to soften them and mixing them with eggs cheese and bread
sounds suspiciously like a quiche filling.

If Thomas is correct (and his linguistic skills are certainly far better
than mine) and "flur" is actually "feuer," then this could mean that this
dish is baked in a kettle with coals on top.  It might also mean using a
"salamander" to brown the top of the dish before baking.  The browning might
also make the top crisp.

Again, this is a recipe to play with.  I wonder if they would have put salt
in the "blat?"

Bear

Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:33:15 -0400 
From: "Hupman, Laurie" <LHupman at kenyon.com>
Subject: SC - RE: Ruzzige Cake

This is from my notes.  After several unsatisfactory tries with the crust, I
ended up using a basic pizza dough.  It got me through the feast, but went
onto the "needs further experimentation" list.  My source was Alia Atlas'
online translation.

52. Ein gut f¸lle (A good filling)

Der ein gut kˆcherye machen wil. der hacke petersylien und salbey. glich
vil. und brate sie in butern und t¸ftele eyer weich. und menge daz zu
sammene. und ribe kese und brot dor in. und mache ein blat von eyern. und
giuz butern dor under. und sch¸te diz dor uf. gib im flur oben uf. und laz
backen. diz sint ruzzige k¸echin.

He who wants to make a good dish chops parsley and sage, exactly as much.
And fry them in butter and beats eggs soft.  And mix that together. And
grate cheese and bread therein. And make a leaf from eggs. And pour butter
thereunder. And pour this thereon. Give it flowers on top. And let bake.
This is ruzzige cake.

Ruzzige Cake

Crust:
2 cups flour
2/3 cup warm water
1/2 tsp yeast
1 tbsp olive oil
1/2 tsp salt
1 tbsp butter

Dissolve yeast in warm water and add to flour, olive oil and salt. Mix into
a soft dough and knead for 10 minutes. Cover with a damp towel and allow to
rise for two hours. Punch back down and knead until smooth and elastic.

Use butter to grease a 9x9 cake pan. Press dough flat and stretch it into
the pan, pinching up around the edges.

Filling:
1/2 cup chopped parsley
1/2 cup chopped sage
2 tbsp butter
4 eggs
1/4 cup breadcrumbs
1 cup grated Parmesan cheese

Lightly saute the parsley and sage in butter. In a separate bowl, whisk
together the eggs, breadcrumbs and cheese, then mix in the parsley and sage.
Pour over the prepared crust and bake at 400 for 20-25 minutes. The filling
should set like a quiche, and the crust should be slightly browned.

If you can help me out with a flour/egg crust, I'd be really happy.

Thanks,
Rose

Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 21:57:48 +0200
From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com>
Subject: Re: SC - RE: Ruzzige Cake

>52. Ein gut f¸lle (A good filling)
>
>Der ein gut kˆcherye machen wil. der hacke petersylien und salbey. glich
>vil. und brate sie in butern und t¸ftele eyer weich. und menge daz zu
>sammene. und ribe kese und brot dor in. und mache ein blat von eyern. und
>giuz butern dor under. und sch¸te diz dor uf. gib im flur oben uf. und laz
>backen. diz sint ruzzige k¸echin.
>
>He who wants to make a good dish chops parsley and sage, exactly as much.
>And fry them in butter and beats eggs soft.  And mix that together. And
>grate cheese and bread therein. And make a leaf from eggs. And pour butter
>thereunder. And pour this thereon. Give it flowers on top. And let bake.
>This is ruzzige cake.

If y'all will pardon some fuzzy-brained late-night thinking here... This
Ruzzige k¸echin recipe sounds vaguely similar to this recipe for Sew trappe
- -- not in the specific ingredients, but in what's going on, i.e. making a
filled crÍpe. (And yes, I know Sew trappe is making more of a crÍpe
sandwich, but look at the two-pan method used.)

Harleian MS. 279 - Dyuerse Bake Metis
xxx.  Sew trappe.  Take .ij. lytel er[th]en pannys, & sette on [th]e colys
tyl [th]ey ben hote; make a dyssche-fulle of [th]ikke bature of Floure &
Watere; take & grece a lytel [th]at o[ther panne, & do [th]e bater
[th]er-on; & lat renne al a-bowte [th]e panne, so [th]at [th]e pan be al
y-helyd; take & sette [th]e panne a-[3]en ouer [th]e fyre of colys; do
[th]at o[ther panne a-boue [th]at o[ther panne, tyl it be y-baken y-now;
whan it is y-bake, [th]at it wol a-ryse fro [th]e eggys of [th]e panne,
take kydes Fleyssche & [3]ong porke, & hew it; take Percely, ysope, &
Sauerey [and hew hit]  smal y-now; & [th]row a-mong [th]e Fleyssche;  & do
it in a panne, & [th]e cofynne, do it to [th]e colys; hele it with [th]at
o[th]er panne, & do colys a-bouyn, & lat baken wyl; whan it is y-now, take
Eyroun, & breke hem; take [th]e [3]olkes, & draw [th]orw a straynoure:
caste to [th]e [3]olkys Hwyte Sugre, Gyngere, Canelle, Galyngale; sture it
wyl to-gederys; take al [th]is, & sette a-doun [th]e panne, & cast in
a-bouyn [th]e cofynne in [th]e panne:  sture it to-gederys; hele it
a[3]enward with [th]at o[th]er panne, & lay colys a-boue, & lat bake wyl
tyl it be y-now; take yt owt of [th]e panne, & do it out y-hole, or as
moche as [th]ow wolt, & [th]anne serue it forth.

30.  Sew trappe.  Take two little earthen pans, & set on the coals till
they are hot; make a dish-full of thick batter of Flour & Water; take &
grease a little that other pan, & put the batter thereon; & let run all
about the pan, so that the pan is all covered; take & set the pan again
over the fire of coals; put that other pan above that other pan, till it is
baked enough; when it is baked, that it will arise from the edges of the
pan, take kids Flesh & young pork, & hew it; take Parsley, hyssop, & Savory
[and hew it] small enough; & throw among the Flesh; & put it in a pan, &
the coffin, put it to the coals; cover it with that other pan, & put coals
above, & let bake well; when it is enough, take Eggs, & break them; take
the yolks, & draw through a strainer:  cast to the yolks White Sugar,
Ginger, Cinnamon, Galingale; stir it well together; take all this, & set
down the pan, & cast in above the coffin in the pan:  stir it together;
cover it again with that other pan, & lay coals above, & let bake well till
it is enough; take it out of the pan, & put it out whole, or as much as
thou will, & then serve it forth.

 >From Thomas:
>1. _a leaf from eggs_; the German _blat_ has a technical meaning in the
>old language: 'thin (piece of) dough'. Sure, German _Blatt_ in the
>modern language means 'leaf'; but as far as I can tell from my
>dictionaries, engl./am. _leaf_ alone is not used to refer to thin
>(pieces of) dough (please, correct me if I am wrong); thus, it seems to
>me, that one should translate the passage _ein blat von eyern_ with
>something like 'a thin (piece of) dough made of eggs'.
>
>2. _gib im flur oben uf_, 'Give it flowers on top'. The manuscript has
>the form _fiu:er_ (_fi∏r_), which is an old form of todays _Feuer_
>'fire'. Thus, there are no flowers around, but one must heat everything
>from the top (with coals). Speaking of cooking equipment, there is good
>evidence for heating something from the top, e.g. by putting hot coals
>on top of a cooking vessel.
>
>-- _ruzzig_ means 'russian' (Stopp; Martellotti/Durante); not very
>convincing, given the fact, that we (I) know of no russian influences in
>culinary matters in the 14th century so far.

R˚z , R˚ze, Riuze  stswm. pl. Riuze, Riuzen, R˚zen:
   Russe, Ruthenus (Rusze, Rusche, Rutze, Reusz, Reusze, Reuse)
   DFG. 505a, n. gl. 323a. SCHM. Fr. 2,153. ungetriuwer R˚z
   HELMBR. 1809. Riuze WOLFD. B. s. 347b. R˚zen lant,
   Russland JER. 3742, ebenso der dat. pl. DFG. 504b, n. gl. 323a.
   ausz, in Reuszen FASN. 360,1. 477,10.

 r˚zisch s.  riuzesch.

If we plug in Thomas' suggestions:

>He who wants to make a good dish chops parsley and sage, exactly as much.
>And fry them in butter and beats eggs soft.  And mix that together. And
>grate cheese and bread therein. And make a thin tyne/pancake/crÍpe from
>eggs. And pour butter
>thereunder. And pour this [mixture] thereon. Give it hot coals on top. And
>let bake.
>This is ruzzig cake.

And if we plug in the word Russian in the last line, we get BLINY.

Very fuzzily yours,

Cindy

Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 23:16:16 +0100
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - Re: Ruzzige cake

Thank you, Cindy, for your version of the recipe.

As far as I can see, two problems still remain:

- -- the translation of "t¸ftele" with _beat_ is doubtful. The web version
we are discussing is based on the earliest edition of the Buch von guter
Speise of 1844, the worst of the insufficient editions we have, I regret
to say. This editor suggested "schlagen, klopfen ? vgl. Schmeller 1,
358". The editor himself put a question mark here! Looking up the place
in Schmeller's Bavarian dictionary, I find that this meaning is given
for "deffeln", a word still in usage in modern German dialects, but a
word totally different from "t¸fteln". For the moment, I have no
solution.

- -- Now, the "ruzzige"-problem. Sure, _rus_ or in the older spelling
_ruz-_ refers to Russia, Russians. But as far as I can see, the usual
ending for such a word would have been "-isch". I am not sure what to do
here, but this problem is only of minor importance for the cook because
it concerns only the _name_ of the dish.

What is Bliny?

Cheers and thanks again,
Thomas

Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 20:03:59 -0500
From: Diana L Skaggs <upsxdls_osu at ionet.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Ruzzige cake

>GREAT STUFF!!!  Unfortunately, I don't have a recipe, but if anyone on the list
>does, I'd love to have it. Kiri

Well, Leanna has her trusty copy of "Joy of Cooking," Here it is, their
version of Blini or Russian Raised Pancakes:

About 24 2-inch cakes

Dissolve 1 cake yeast in 2 cups scalded milk which has cooled to 85
degrees. Stir in until well blended: 1 1/2 cups sifted all-purpose flour
and 1 tbsp. sugar.  Cover the bowl and set this sponge to rise in a warm
place about 1 1/2 hours.  Beat until well blended 3 egg yolks with 1
tablespoon melted butter.  Stir in 1/2 cup sifted all-purpose flour and 1
tsp. salt. Beat these ingredients into sponge and let it rise again about 1
1/2 hours or until almost doubled in bulk.  Whip until stiff, but not dry:
3 egg whites and fold them into the batter.  After 10 minutes, cook the
batter, a very small quantity at a time in a greased skillet or on a
griddle. Turn to brown lightly on the other side.  Serve each blini rolled
and filled with: 1 tbsp. caviar and garnished with cultured sour cream.

Sounds decadent.

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 10:28:56 +0200
From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Ruzzige cake

Bliny are Russian pancakes, traditionally served at Shrovetide.  The
recipes vary widely.  Some call for yeast, others do not.  Here is one that
is more like a crÍpe: http://www.ruscuisine.com/sent/030999.html

My modern German dictionary has t¸fteln as to do something with
hairsplitting attention to detail. This would seem to fit the making of a
batter with whipped egg whites, but this is pure speculation.

You say this mess is from the earliest edition.  What do the other editions
say about this recipe?

Cindy

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:45:03 -0000
From: "Nanna Rognvaldardottir" <nanna at idunn.is>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Ruzzige cake

Kiri wrote:
>Thanks!  Though I must say, I've never had them stuffed with caviar, but rather
>cheese or fruit.

Isn¥t there some mix-up here? (I¥m sorry if this has been discussed already
but my server has lost a bunch of messages I never saw.) I could be wrong
but I¥ve always understood that blini and blintz are two different things.
Blin means "pancake" in Russian and can be either a small pancake or a crepe
but the blini best known outside Russia, at least, are small (10 centimeters
or less in diameter and 6-8 millimeters thick), leavened with yeast, and
usually eaten hot with butter and a savoury filling, frequently caviar and
sour cream. Traditionally they ara made of buckwheat, although there are
flour-only versions.

Blintz, on the other hand, is an eggy pancake/crepe of Jewish origin,
leavend with baking powder (or just with eggs) and can be either sweet or
savoury.

Nanna

Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 13:09:08 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Ruzzige cake

Nanna Rognvaldardottir wrote:
> Isn¥t there some mix-up here? (I¥m sorry if this has been discussed already
> but my server has lost a bunch of messages I never saw.) I could be wrong
> but I¥ve always understood that blini and blintz are two different things.
> Blin means "pancake" in Russian and can be either a small pancake or a crepe
> but the blini best known outside Russia, at least, are small (10 centimeters
> or less in diameter and 6-8 millimeters thick), leavened with yeast, and
> usually eaten hot with butter and a savoury filling, frequently caviar and
> sour cream. Traditionally they ara made of buckwheat, although there are
> flour-only versions.

It sounds like we're talking around two different foods whose names
happen to have the same etymology. Thank you, Nanna, it never even
occurred to me that references to blini with cheese and fruit might in
fact be references to blintzes; I just assumed it was a presentation of
blini I'd never encountered before.

Yes, I agree with Nanna. Blini and blintzes are different, although
related, animals, in that they are both pancakes, and both probably
originated by Russians, but then Russia is large and ethnically diverse,
hence the differences.

The blini recipes I've seen tend to be what I would imagine are the
deluxe version, normally involving a yeast-raised buckwheat-flour
batter*, sometimes also containing cream, and into which beaten egg
white is sometimes carefully folded at the last minute before cooking. I
imagine there are simpler versions, but when I think of blini I think of
the Russian Tea Room on New Year's Eve, and the complicated version
seems the closest to that sort of presentation. 

[*Note that this is an exception to all I've said in the past about
yeast-raised products being more often made from doughs, rather than
batters. I think my basic comment on the frequency of yeast-raised
doughs versus egg-or-chemical-raised batters still stands, though.]   

Blintzes seem to be more along the lines of a sweet or almost-sweet
version of canneloni: an eggy pancake, usually much larger than blini,
made from wheat flour and eggs, milk, etc., normally rolled around a
filling, sometimes fried after rolling and sealing. Not unlike a spring
roll filled with fruit, jam, cheese, etc.

As for the question of whether a crepe-like layer is likely to have been
the substrate for ruzzige cake, I don't know. I'd like to experiment
with a slightly tougher _dough_ made from flour and eggs, like a pasta
but without the added water. I know Mistress Caterina Sichlingen (Alia
Atlas) was able to work with a dough for the German pies whose recipes
she translated that consisted largely of flour and egg yolks; the theory
was that the yolks, undiluted with water, contained enough shortening to
make such a pastry palatable. I found it to be a lovely yellow,
reasonably tender, but never quite crisp enough for my taste. It seemed
to go immediately from a state that most 20th-century Americans would
regard as soggy or underdone, to burnt. I don't really know why
Caterina's adapted recipe calls for pizza or bread dough, unless she was
simply applying a stop-gap measure for feast use, bulk presentation, etc.

Or, as someone might say outside the East Kingdom, it wasn't for an A&S
entry or anything... ;  ) . 

Adamantius, hearing the fluttering of Trouble's wings in the air

Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 19:09:49 -0000
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Ruzzige cake

Adamantius wrote:
>The blini recipes I've seen tend to be what I would imagine are the
>deluxe version, normally involving a yeast-raised buckwheat-flour
>batter*, sometimes also containing cream, and into which beaten egg
>white is sometimes carefully folded at the last minute before cooking. I
>imagine there are simpler versions, but when I think of blini I think of
>the Russian Tea Room on New Year's Eve, and the complicated version
>seems the closest to that sort of presentation.

The great Elena Molokhovets, in A Gift to Young Housewifes (the Russian
cooking bible of imperial times - that¥s the one where many of the cake
recipes begin with something like "take 70 egg yolks and beat them for an
hour") has the following recipe for "The very best pancakes" (bliny samye
luchshie) :

"Prepare a batter from 1 1/2 glasses wheat flour, 2 1/2 glasses buckwheat
flour, 2 1/2 glasses warm water, and 3-4 spoons yeast. After it has risen,
sprinkle on 1 glass buckwheat flour and let the batter rise. When the stove
is lit, an hour before cooking, pour 2 glasses boiling milk onto the batter
all at once and mix until smooth. When it cools, add salt. (2-3 eggs and 1/8
lb butter may be added also.) Let the batter rise and, without stirring
further, fry the pancakes as indicated in the Remarks (that is, spoon batter
over the bottom of the burning hot pan and fry the pancakes on top of the
stove or, preferably, bake them on hot coals in a Russian stove. When the
pancakes begin to rise and brown, drizzle butter over them. If they are
fried on top of the stove, turn them to finish cooking and stack them up by
the side of the stove to keep warm.)"

She also has a recipe for crepes (blinchiki) and the translator¥s notes add:
"Blinchiki are similar to French crepes. They are very thin unleavened
pancakes that may be filled or not, according to circumstances. Filled
blinchiki are known as blinzes among the American Jewish community."

>Blintzes seem to be more along the lines of a sweet or almost-sweet
>version of canneloni: an eggy pancake, usually much larger than blini,
>made from wheat flour and eggs, milk, etc., normally rolled around a
>filling, sometimes fried after rolling and sealing. Not unlike a spring
>roll filled with fruit, jam, cheese, etc.

In Iceland, we make almost identical very thin pancakes. They are either
eaten with sugar, or spread with jam and whipped cream and folded into a
triangle. They are considered about as Icelandic as you can get, and I
invariably serve them on the first day of summer (late April, the
temperature is rarely much above freezing).

Nanna

Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 23:09:06 +0100
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - Ruzzige cake, BvgS #52

Hi Cindy,

<< My modern German dictionary has t¸fteln as to do something with
hairsplitting attention to detail. This would seem to fit the making of
a batter with whipped egg whites, but this is pure speculation. >>

There is one reason why one cannot see our passage in the light of this
sense. The word _t¸fteln_ in the sense you quoted is much younger.
According to the Deutsches Wˆrterbuch (33 vols.; our OED), the word in
this sense is only attested from the 18th century onwards.

Another proposal was, to understand the passage _t¸ftele eyer weich_ in
the sense 'siede, d¸nste, d‰mpfe sie weich' (Deutsches Wˆrterbuch, vol.
2, 1503), 'cook them until they are soft (?)'. -- Aichholzer, in her
edition of the Mondsee cookbook chose this meaning for the parallel
recipe (M48). -- The expressions used for 'beat (eggs, yolks)' usually
are _schlagen_ or _klopffen_.

<< You say this mess is from the earliest edition.  What do the other
editions say about this recipe? >>

Hajek's 1958 edition has only the text; no note, no entry in the
glossary (as often). -- Hajek's other publication on the book says that
"ruzzig" means 'ruﬂig' (smooty). -- Hayer 1976 casts doubt on this
interpretation, but does not give an own position. -- The tupperware
edition follows the Hajek II version (sooty); obviously they believed
that the coals were laid directly onto the dish. -- The Stopp-glossary
of the partial edition says "ruzzig 'russisch'" (russian, as did the
mhg. dictionaries). -- Finally, the Italian edition and translation says
that 'russian' is meant here, too, and even mentions the parallel to
bliny preparations.

In respect to _t¸fteln_ these editions either say nothing or follow the
'beat'-interpretation.

The problem with _t¸fteln_ and _ruzzig_ is, that our passage includes
the only (early) attestations of these words we have. And in such a
situation, there is not much control of what is possibly meant. Some say
this, some say that ... Perhaps I can ask my colleagues of the
Mittelhochdeutsches Wˆrterbuch in Trier later, what they think of this
recipe. Maybe I am missing something here ...

Anyway, the bliny-connection seems worth further investigation!

Cheers, Thomas

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:53:59 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Ruzzige cake

Richard Kappler wrote:
> 
> Stefan wrote:
> > Ok, just what is this thing? I'd like to save some of the messages
> > on this item, but I can't figure out whether it is a crepe, a cake,
> > a cheese/herb pie or just what from the descriptions/recipes given
> > here. Where would you all look for such an item?
> 
> Well, that's really the crux of the debate Stefan.  Alia Atlas, in her
> translation and redaction, presents it as a pizza-like cake with cheese and
> herbs.  TGaP Adamantius and I are of the not too firmly held opinion that
> this is not the case.  I stop speaking for my master at that point, but go
> on for myself in saying that I am of the impression that it is more like a
> topped crepe type thingy.  Again, I am not terribly firm in this opinion as
> I have not yet devoted as much time as I plan to to my own translation and
> redaction, focusing on other projects for the moment.  I am also following
> the linguistic discussion between Thomas and Cindy.  My German is far too
> rusty to get into some of the etymology the are debating.  For the moment, I
> should think you would be safe putting it as a cheese and herb pie with the
> caveat that the classification may be changed at a later date.

Sounds about right. I think part of the problem is that you're trying to
classify medieval foods according to modern categories, and it doesn't
entirely work; some things just defy typical modern pigeonholes (Is
zanzarella a cheese soup, an omelette, should it go with herbolastes and
such, WHA'???) However, I don't really know a good solution to this
problem. The most effective would probably be cross-referenceing those
items that might fit into more than one category, but it's easy to say
that when you're not the one doing the work.

As for the specific question of what that eggy layer under the ruzzige
cake really _is_, all we really know is that it is to be made from eggs,
and that the word "blat", suggesting a leaf, is used. Now we need to
decide whether blat/leaf is used in the same sense as the French
"feuille", also denoting both leaves _and_ a culinary non-plant
application: each layer in puff pastry is called a feuille, the whole
product being mille-feuille. Additionally, we have numerous English
recipes which speak of making a thin foil _of dough_ with or without
eggs, and they are presumably talking of eggs and wheat flour kneaded
into a dough that can be rolled out.

So, I'm not sure if what is meant is A) a simple omelette layer, B) a
crepe layer, or C) an egg-flour dough layer, like pasta. Both B and C
rely on the assumption of adding ingredients not specified in the
recipe, but then that's not necessarily a problem -- when we speak of
serving pot roast with egg noodles, it is understood that the noodles
are made of more than just egg. A crepe layer could be what is meant,
but it's really no closer, and not especially easier to make, than a
pasta-based version, to the original.

Now. Is it divided into little cells?
  
Adamantius

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:09:15 -0700
From: Valoise Armstrong <varmstro at zipcon.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: Ruzzige cake

Adamantius wrote:
> As for the specific question of what that eggy layer under the ruzzige
<snnipped>
> So, I'm not sure if what is meant is A) a simple omelette layer, B) a
> crepe layer, or C) an egg-flour dough layer, like pasta. Both B and C
> rely on the assumption of adding ingredients not specified in the
> recipe, but then that's not necessarily a problem -- when we speak of
> serving pot roast with egg noodles, it is understood that the noodles
> are made of more than just egg. A crepe layer could be what is meant,
> but it's really no closer, and not especially easier to make, than a
> pasta-based version, to the original.

Okay, I'll start out by admitting that I haven't been following this thread
(or the list in general for quite awhile), but regarding the use of the word
blat in Das buoch von guote spise (that's where the Ruzzige cake recipe came
from right?) I always thought that the blat of eggs was probably closer to a
sheet of pastry dough made from flour and eggs. In comparison, Sabina
Welserin used the word blatz to refer to such a sheet of dough. These
snippets are just a few of such references in her book. I haven't had time
to look at any other texts, so I'm not sure if similar words were used in
this context by other writers. I've left the words bletz and blatz
untranslated so you can see them in context. These aren't my published
translations, just off-the-cuff renderings.

from <<67>>
Ain pasteten von wilbret (A pastry from game;

 nempt darnach ain wenig
...taig daruon, vngefarlich den dritten tail, vnnd welglet 2
bletz, ... thiet das wilbret a¶ff den vnndern blatz vnnd diet
darnach den andern blatz obena¶ff...

take afterwards a little dough thereon, about the third part and roll 2
bletz,...put the game on the bottom blatz and put afterwards the other blatz
over it

from <<70>>
Ain torten von pflamen... (A tart from plums...)

...man nimpt 2 air vnnd erklopffts,
darnach riert ain mel daran, bis es dich wirt, schit jn darnach
a¶ff den disch vnnd arbait jn woll, bis er recht wirt, hernach
nempt ain wenig mer dan den halbtail vom taig vnnd
welglet ain blatz, so brait jr die torten haben welt, hernach
schit die pflamen dara¶ff vnnd welglet hernach den andern
blatz vnnd zerschneit jn, wie jr jn geren haben welt,
vnnd thiets oben jber die torten...

...one takes 2 eggs and beats, after that stir flour therein, until it
becomes thick, pour it after that on the table and work it well, until it is
right, afterwards take a little more than half of the dough and roll a
blatz, so wide as you will have your tart, after that pour the plums on it
and roll after that the other blatz and cut it, however you would like to
have it, and put it over the tart...

Valoise 

Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:06:27 +0100
From: TG <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - Ruzzige cakes

"A good stuffing.
If you want to prepare a good dish, chop the same amount of parsley and
sage, and fry it in butter. Beat raw eggs and mix that, and grate cheese
and bread, and add it. Make a pancake, add melted butter, and put it on
the fire. Cover the top with coal, too, and bake it. These are sooty
cakes." (Adamson, Buoch ... p. 103).

Th.

Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 18:23:24 -0500
From: Jenn Strobel <jenn.strobel at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Question, late period Dutch - Pancakes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On 11/3/05, Barbara Benson <voxeight at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am working with a friend on building a printing press.
>
> Yes, I know, how is this relevant? Well, he came across the following
> quote:
>
> "This Plaster of Paris it tempered fair with Water to the consistance
> of Batter for Pancakes, or somewhat thicker...."
>
> regarding setting the marble slab into plaster of paris. Unless we
> have a better understanding of period Dutch Pancakes - we are kind of
> in the dark here.
>
> So, I was wondering if anyone out there could shed some light on this
> subject. Dutch is not one of the areas I have much understanding of.
> But I believe I remember some good gentles here that have looked into
> the culture.

Pancake batter isn't really described as being any particular consistancy.
They just give directions for what to put together to make them (and there
are several types). If you look at some pictures of pancakes in Dutch
pictures (example: "the Pancake Maker" from a follower of Nicolaes Maes),
you will notice that they seem to be like more solid pancakes than what we
have now. The ingredients seem to be flour, butter, eggs, and either milk,
cream, or water and then fried in butter. Which would definately give you a
thicker product.

Odriana vander Brugge

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 07:35:59 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
	<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Russian food
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Jul 20, 2006, at 2:55 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
> Blini are the same as blintzes? A thin, firm pancake rolled with a
> filling?

Blini tend to be smallish, slightly spongy-textured, buckwheat-flour
pancakes, often raised with a combination of yeast and beaten egg
white (hence the sponginess). Frequently served with melted butter,
sour cream, and caviar.

Blintzes are more crepelike, although I assume there's an
etymological link.

Adamantius

Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 20:07:16 -0400
From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Dutch Pancakes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

--On Sunday, May 06, 2007 7:58 PM -0400 Aldyth at aol.com wrote:
> Yet again I have found a dead  end.  I have found many remarks about a
> dutch  cookbook by Annie Van't  Veer.  Is there a title?  It seems to be
> the  authority on dutch  pancakes.  The recipes I have found are all the
> same, and simply  refer to  this "cookbook". I was hoping to find both
> the cookbook and the  original work  that was translated.  Any ideas?

Found this post from 1996 on the rec.food.historic list. I'll bet  
this is the cookbook you're looking for:

I was pruning my cookbook collection over the weekend, and it turned out
that there was exactly one historical cookbook that I was getting rid
of. Would anybody like a copy of:

         Annie van't Veer
         Oud-Hollands Kookboek
         1966, Prisma Boeken
         Paperback, 190 pp.
         In Dutch.

It is divided into three sections (about the late Middle Ages, the
Golden Age, and the eighteenth century), and has illustrations and
recipies in the old spelling.

toodles, margaret

Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 23:27:13 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Dutch Pancakes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Just so people know, the Dutch pancake being talked about here
appears in the Florilegium under Breadmaking in a post from 1999. It
also appears on the web at
http://www.household-management.com/cookbook/Panckoecken--Medieval- 
Dutch-Pancakes-.html

I am not convinced that Oud-Hollands Kookboek is the end all on pancake recipes but I'll see what else I can dig up this week. Peter Rose's work comes to mind as being more accessible. Matters of Taste Food and Drink in Seventeenth-Century Dutch Art and Life contains two paintings that deal directly with the topic:

  Jan Steen's Pancake Woman and Egbert van der Poel's A Pancake Woman.
They are also featured in Bloemaert's A Couple in the Kitchen Interior.
Rose produces 3 different versions of pancakes in the recipe book that
goes along with the exhibit catalog and notes the sources in the catalog.

Windmills in My Oven by Gaitri Pagrach-Chandra also has a chapter on
pancakes with listed sources.

Johnnae

Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 12:52:42 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Dutch Pancakes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

There are a few other artists and artworks that might be mentioned.
Adriaen Brouwer, **1605 - 1638, Pancake Baker
http://www.philamuseum.org/collections/permanent/102487.html

Jan Steen also did one titled The Old Pancake Seller
http://www.fitzmuseum.cam.ac.uk/pharos/collection_pages/ 
northern_pages/76/PIC_SE-76.html

There's also* *Rembrandt's sketch titled The Pancake Woman.
http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/r/rembran/graphics/etching/ 
pancake.html

There's one of the merchant ones titled The Pancake Seller.
Rijksbureau voor Kunsthistorische  It appears online in a small image at
http://home.planet.nl/~demoo019/website_janny_5.html

I should mention that
Janny de Moor did an article on pancakes in 2002: /
The Flattest Meal: Pancakes in the Dutch Lowlands /

It can be found in: H. Walker (ed.), /The Meal: Proceedings of the
Oxford Symposium on Food and Cookery 2001/, Prospect books: Totnes 2002,
67-80. ISBN 1 903018 24 2

Johnnae

> Matters of Taste. Food and Drink in Seventeenth-Century Dutch Art and Life
> contains two paintings that deal directly with the topic:
>  Jan Steen's Pancake Woman and Egbert van der Poel's A Pancake Woman.
> They are also featured in Bloemaert's A Couple in the Kitchen Interior.
> Rose produces 3 different versions of pancakes in the recipe book that
> goes along with the exhibit catalog and notes the sources in the catalog.
>
> Johnnae

Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 08:53:25 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Panckoecken was Dutch Pancakes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

You are correct in that the recipes are the same. 
So here is the recipe that Aldyth was seeking (and the one mentioned in
the Heiko Ebeling recipe that appears in the Florilegium and in various
places on the web.)

Van?t Veer, Annie. Oud-Hollands Kookboek. Utrecht: Uitgeverij Het
Spectrum, 1966, 1981.The recipe reads:

PANCKOECKEN

Om panckoecken te maken in de vastenen. Neemt fijn bloeme, die suldi
beslaen met gheste. Dan maeckt daer af deech. Dan salmen van dien selven
deeghe nemen een Cleyn clontken ende maken dat viercantych seer dunne,
emmers soe dunne alst Moghelyck es om maken tot dat cleyn gaetkens
worpt. Dans bacxse wel in raeptsmout. Sommyghe dye willen backen der
inne rosinen ende dye steken si hyer en daer eene ende cock clyen
stucxkens van appelen. Page 50

I googled the first line of this recipe then and it turns up as

       126. Om panckoecken te maken inde vastenen
       To make lenten pancakes

[13] Om panckoecken te maken inde vastenen Neemt [14] fijn bloeme die
suldi beslaen met gheste Dan maeckt [15] daer af deech Dan salmen van
dien seluen deeghe ne[16]men een cleyn clontken ende maken dat
viercantych [17] seer dunne emmers soe dunne alst moghelyck es om [18]
maken tot dat cleyn gaetkens worpt: Dan bacxse wel in [19] raeptsmout
Sommyghe dye willen backen der inne [20] rosinen ende dye steken si hyer
en daer eene ende oock [21] cleyn stucxkens van appelen.

*[13] To make lenten pancakes. Take [14] fine flour which you shall beat
up with yeast. Then make [15] dough from it. Then, from the same dough,
one shall [16] take a small lump and make it square [17] [and] very
thin, in any case as thin as it is possible to [18] make, until small
holes appear. Then fry them well in [19] rape oil. Some, who wish to,
fry raisins therein [20] and they stick them one here and there and also
[21] small pieces of apple.*

http://users.pandora.be/willy.vancammeren/NBC/nbc_r126.htm

Het eerste gedrukte Nederlandsche kookboek, Brussel, Thomas vander Noot
(+/-1510) This was "The First Printed Dutch Cookbook."
http://users.pandora.be/willy.vancammeren/NBC/index.htm
This project was included in the list of Dutch cookbooks that
I submitted yesterday am.

Johnnae

Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 18:11:18 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] flapjack question
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

The term "flapjack" dates from around 1600 and is used synonomously with
pancake.  However, without a description, it is difficult to say how  
closely the flapjack resembles its modern counterpart.

IIRC, the Hymn to Ninkasi, Sumerian dating from around 3500 BCE, describes
making flat bread from barley meal, honey, and (probably) water.  The
ancient Irish produced flat cakes from wheat grains (softened in milk) and
honey.  It would not surprise me to find pan or hearth breads made from oats
(or oat meal), honey and butter (or some other fat), but the available
recipes tend to be OP and mostly omit sweetners, which seem to appear  
in the more modern recipes.

For a little reference on oats and oatcakes, here's a quote from Gerard,

"Avena Vesca. Common Otes.
...is vsed in many countries to make sundry sorts of bread; as in
Lancashire, where it is their chiefest bread corne for Iannocks, Hauer
cakes, Tharffe cakes, and those which are called generally Oten cakes; and
for the most part they call the graine Hauer, whereof they do likewise make
drink for want of Barley."

If you go looking for recipes, try janock and haver cake.

Bear

> While in England last week my consort introduced me to "proper English
> flapjack" which is apparently oats, butter, and sweetener, cooked  
> together briefly and then baked.
>
> Our annual event out in the Black Hills is next weekend, and he wants to
> bring some, but we're doing a period camp, so it has to be  
> documentable.
>
> I don't know of anything like it in the 13th-15th c. corpus, but I don't
> know the later stuff at all to say yea or nay. Does anyone have a
> direction to point me in?
>
> Margaret FitzWilliam

Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 10:49:51 -0400
From: "James of the Vayle" <jamesofthevayle at gmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] A little recipe help
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

    I am cooking a feast this coming weekend and have one issue left
unresolved.  I will be making the following recipe, and was curious as to
where I should put the cheese.  Inside the dough? layered with the dough?  I
have made a hard cheese which holds up well to frying and will be using a
'well-leavened' dough.  Any help is appreciated.  The recipe follows:
Taken from the Libre del Coch translated by Lady Brighid ni Chiarain.

129. SECTIONS OR SLICES OF NEW CHEESE WHICH ARE FRITTERS OR PANCAKES

*REBANADAS O TAJADAS DE QUESO FRESCO QUE ES FRUTA DE SARTEN*

Take new cheese, and make slices as thick as your finger; and take dough
which is well-leavened and is from good flour, and let it be kneaded very
thin and take some egg yolks, and mix them well with the dough, and the
slices of cheese above and below, and then put them to fry in a pan with
very good lard, and turn it promptly so that it cannot burn. But if you cook
it with grease, like fritters, it will be much better. And when they are
cooked, cast sugar on top of them, and eat them hot, because this dish is
worthless in any other manner.

Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 10:52:56 -0400
From: "Cassandra Baldassano" <euriol at ptd.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A little recipe help
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Sounds to me like the cheese is being layered... but it also seems to
suggest that it can be inside the dough for a deep fried treatment.

Euriol

Euriol of Lothian, OP
Minister of Arts & Sciences, Barony of Endless Hills

Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 20:19:27 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pancakes was weird question - honey fast???
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

This reminds me that Ken Albala has a new book coming out on this topic.
It's titled:  Pancake: A Global History.
http://www.reaktionbooks.co.uk/book.html?id=334

Amazon in the US is saying October.

Johnnae

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:58:06 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Forthcoming titles Fall 2008 LONG
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

As promised sometime back here's a list of some forthcoming
fall 08- winter 09
titles that might be of interest to readers of this list.
They cover a full range of topics.
I've included details, descriptions or links where I have them.
A number of the lists I used didn't record prices possibly because
they were not yet set.

Johnnae

-----------------
Pancake: A Global History
by Ken Albala  is part of the new series called Edible by Reaktion Books
that is being released on individual dishes or food items. I have the
set on order but it's not shipped yet. Other titles are Hamburger: A
Global History
by Andrew F. Smith and Pizza: A Global History
by Carol Helstosky
These are $15.95 list but are being heavily discounted.

Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 10:27:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Period pancakes, was: OOP Pancakes

I suppose that this might be too late for Urtatim, but I have been searching and searching for the painting by Pieter Aertsen, called "The Pancake Bakery", from 1560.  This painting shows that pancakes are period.
I have copied a copy of this painting to my LJ journal, since this list does not allow attachments.

http://mistresshuette.livejournal.com/67688.html

You don't have to use the oop baking soda/powder recipes.

Here is one that uses eggs and yeast as the leavener.

Poffertjes

Ingredients:
1 level tsp instant yeast
1 tbsp milk
1 cup buckwheat flour (100 g)
1 cup flour (100 g)
2 eggs
1 tsp sugar
1/2 tsp salt
1 1/4 cups warm milk (250 ml)
1 tbsp butter
-----------
Good quality butter and powdered sugar to serve

Preparation:
In a small bowl, dissolve the yeast in the milk. In a separate bowl, combine the buckwheat flour, flour, eggs, yeast, sugar, salt and half the milk. Whisk smooth. Now add the remaining milk and beat again. 
Cover the bowl with plastic wrap and allow to rest for an hour. 

Melt butter in a frying pan. When it sizzles, add teaspoonfuls of the batter in circular movements to create the mini pancakes. Turn the poffertjes around as soon as the bottom has set, using two forks. 

Serve them with the best quality butter you can find and sieved powdered (icing) sugar. 

Serves 4. 

Here is something that I just found online, which claims to be medieval:

Panckoecken (medieval Dutch Pancakes)

Serves: 4
Ingredients: 
500 g Flour 
25 g Fresh yeast 
3 dl Tepid milk 
1 Egg 
25 g Melted butter 
10 g Salt 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Instructions:
Make a dough from the ingredients and knead it, preferably with your hands.
After you've done that, let the dough raise for one hour.
Then roll it out as thinly as you can manage (stop when small holes appear) on a flour-dusted surface.
In the middle ages, people deep-fried the panckoecken in rapeseed oil.
For special occasions they sometimes added a few raisins or small pieces of apple (used as a cake for Lent).
At what stage of the preparation is not known, but I assume they added them to the dough before rolling it out.
This way, the pancakes turn out thicker, but that's what is needed to keep the raisins or pieces of apple from falling out.
Since this is a medieval recipe, it didn't have a list of ingredients, only instructions.
The amounts of the ingredients mentioned in this recipe are educated guesses by the Dutch cookbook author Annie van't Veer.
Recipe translated and typed by Heiko Ebeling.

Huette

Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 07:24:57 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] crepes

On Sep 19, 2010, at 5:10 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
<<< What is a crepe? How does it differ from a pancake? >>>

Crepes don't differ from pancakes, because all crepes are pancakes. However, not all pancakes are crepes, so you could say they differ from crepes. But crepes don't differ from pancakes.

<<< Is it just that the former is savory instead of sweet? >>>

No, it can be either.

<<< Or does a pancake have more leavening in it? >>>

No, just different. Crepes tend to be made without chemical or other fermenting leavening, such as yeast -- they do contain a high proportion of egg, though, compared to most other pancakes, which tends to make them rise slightly in cooking.

<<< Does the batter tend to be runnier than pancake batter, resulting in a thinner result? >>>

Generally, yes. All that is required for a pancake to be a pancake is that it be cooked in a pan. The rest is up to debate and/or stylistic differences. The logical problem here is that you seem to be desirous of establishing that crepes and pancakes are two distinct groups, not intersecting sets of things, which they are, unless you mean something very specific when you refer to pancakes. I'm starting to assume you mean the family of chemically-leavened, American flapjacks, buckwheat (or not), buttermilk (or not), hotcakes, etc., of the sort one eats with butter and syrup, or possibly molasses. Do people eat anything with molasses as a condiment? Not sure; I despise it.

However, in Europe and outlying areas, when one says "pancake", yes, it's cooked in a pan, usually but not always from a batter rather than a dough, and usually resembles a crepe. It may or may not contain yeast, but eggs are quite common. Sometimes served rolled around a filling, sometimes just rolled around nothing, sometimes folded in quarters around a filling, or folded around nothing, folded and sauced, folded and dredged with sugar, or dredged in sugar without folding or rolling. Oh, and sometimes served with a sauce, but not rolled or folded.

Have I covered everything?

<<< I don't think I've ever had a crepe before, although I've had pancakes. I seem to remember IHOP serves crepes but I've not tried one of theirs, either.

Now that you mention this "where one was instructed to swirl around the batter", I remember that on a recent show Food Truck Challenge or some such, one of the trucks specialized in crepes, and I remember seeing them pour the batter on the griddle and swirl it around with some kind of utensil. Is that a common thing/requirement in making crepes? >>>

Actually, no, but it may be a common requirement for cooking in trucks. Maybe if one is parked on a hillside or something?

Adamantius

Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 09:08:50 -0400
From: Kate Wood <malkin at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] crepes

On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 7:24 AM, Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius
<adamantius1 at verizon.net> wrote:
<<< Now that you mention this "where one was instructed to swirl around the batter", I remember that on a recent show Food Truck Challenge or some such, one of the trucks specialized in crepes, and I remember seeing them pour the batter on the griddle and swirl it around with some kind of utensil. Is that a common thing/requirement in making crepes? >>>

Actually, no, but it may be a common requirement for cooking in trucks. Maybe if one is parked on a hillside or something?

Adamantius
============

Er, yes. Crepes are often made (at least in commercial settings, where
consistency and neatness are key) on a flat griddle with a spreader
(which is basically a dowel on another dowel, which makes it simple to
spread the batter in an even circle around the griddle rapidly and
evenly.

(For those wondering in answer to previous questions, crepes are
pancakes, but very thin and typically larger than American pancakes.
They have a less doughy consistency, but are not glutinous like a
sweet tortilla would be.)

Kate

Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:10:07 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] crepes

On Sep 19, 2010, at 5:10 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
<<< What is a crepe? How does it differ from a pancake? >>>

There are all sorts of recipes for them.

Le Menagier de Paris
(France, 1393 - Janet Hinson, trans.)
The original source can be found at David Friedman's website

CREPES. Take flour and mix with eggs both yolks and whites, but throw  
out the germ, and moisten with water, and add salt and wine, and beat  
together for a long time: then put some oil on the fire in a small  
iron skillet, or half oil and half fresh butter, and make it sizzle;  
and then have a bowl pierced with a hole about the size of your little  
finger, and then put some of the batter in the bowl beginning in the  
middle, and let it run out all around the pan; then put on a plate,  
and sprinkle powdered sugar on it. And let the iron or brass skillet  
hold three chopines, and the sides be half a finger tall, and let it  
be as broad at the bottom as at the top, neither more nor less; and  
for a reason.

The same book also contains a recipe for CREPES IN TOURNAY STYLE.

From Ouverture de Cuisine
(France, 1604 - Daniel Myers, trans.)
The original source can be found at MedievalCookery.com

To make a Hungarian crepe. Take a dozen beaten eggs, and put them with  
white bread passed with a little cream well thick, and beat that with  
eggs, and make a crepe, when well cooked on two sides, sugar and  
cinnamon thereon.
---
You obviously didn't join the Society during the crepe heyday of the  
1970's when they were served at feasts.

Johnnae

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 09:01:16 -0400
From: devra at aol.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] crepes

My mother's recipe for blini had six eggs and a very little bit of flour.  We had two special small frying pans that we didn't use for anything else. They weren't non-stick, but before the batter was poured, we would tip in a small amount of melted butter, swirl the pan, and tip out the excess.  Then we'd put in about a quarter of a cup of batter, swirl it to coat the pan, and pour out the excess.  When the batter pulled away from the sides of the pan, we'd turn the pan over and tap the crepe out onto a cloth towel, lining them up and overlapping a little. Then more butter, more batter.....  After the batter was all cooked, then we'd fill the crepes. Since only one side had been cooked, we'd fill that side, roll and fold them, put them into a buttered pan, and bake them. Thus the outside got cooked also.

Haven't made those since my mom died in 1965.  Probably have lost the touch....

Devra

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 08:40:06 -0500
From: Fields Family Farm <fields at texas.net>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] crepes

In Paris, where I first had crepes made professionally for me where I could
see it, the vendor, with his cart on the side of the street, used a flat
griddle and a ladle.  He poured the batter out onto the griddle with a
spiral motion, and then spread it with the bottom of the ladle, not a
'spreader'.  It came out beautifully flat and thin.  But then again, he'd
probably done tens of thousands of them.

When I came back to the states I tried to find a crepe recipe that would
duplicate that texture/taste/consistency.  I tried at least 5 or 6 recipes
from my favorite cookbooks (this was 18 years ago, so before most websites),
but none of them were quite right.  So, through a process of
experimentation, documentation, and testing, I came up with my own crepes
recipe.

It may not be the 'perfect' crepe, but it duplicates the delicious ones we
had from that street vendor in Paris:

2 cups milk
1.5 cups flour
4 large eggs
2 teaspoons vanilla
4 tablespoons melted butter
a 'pinch' of salt (optional)

Don't put 'hot' butter into the mix - let it cool a bit first.  Add
everything together at once, and whisk until smooth.  The batter will be
thin and liquid.  Re-stir it in between ladles to keep the butter mixed in.
Make sure the pan is hot enough that a drop of water will 'dance' on it.
Ladle it into the pan and swirl the pan to spread it out.  Or, if you're
using a griddle, I suppose you could use a 'spreader'.  Cook until 'done' -
it takes practice to tell when they're done.  You can flip them and brown
the second side slightly, if you like them that way.  This recipe usually
makes about 8-10 crepes, depending on the size of your ladle.  I've cooked
these in non-stick pans, and properly seasoned cast-iron.  I don't know how
they'd do in stainless.

I've used that recipe for years now, and they come out wonderfully each
time.

Hrethric

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 10:30:37 -0400
From: Audrey Bergeron-Morin <audreybmorin at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] crepes

And this: <<< And let the iron or brass skillet hold three chopines, and
the sides be half a finger tall, and let it be as broad at the bottom as at
the top, neither more nor less; and for a reason. >>>

Modernly at least, one chopine is a half pint. (Seems like a LOT of batter
for a crepe, but then again, sides being half a finger tall corresponds more
to what we usually think of as a pancake, not a thin crepe.)

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 10:42:13 -0400
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] crepes

Stefan quoted and wrote:
The one from Le Menagier de Paris says:
<<< CREPES. Take flour and mix with eggs both yolks and whites, 
but throw out the germ... >>>
<< What does the "throw out the germ" mean here? >>

Since I get the digest, someone's probably answered, but I think 
it's the little firm, whitish bit that you find in the egg white. 
It doesn't melt or go away and would make a small lumpy bit in an 
otherwise flat crepe.
========

And consider they probably used fertilized eggs, not the 
un-fertilized ones that are usual now.  This is the bit that will 
grow into a chick.

Ranvaig

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 10:56:09 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] crepes

I am editing today under a deadline. I have to make this brief. There  
are numerous interpretations of the Menagier recipe. Try a search  
under Menagier and crepes and sca to see various Society versions or  
go to Google Books and take a look there.

The recipe I quoted from Janet Hinson, trans.
The original source can be found at David Friedman's website

Crepes and the '70's. It was probably a Julia Child/French Chef thing.  
They were very popular and crepe skillets were popular gifts. There  
was an upside down perfect crepe maker at the time where you dipped a  
hot griddle into the batter and that made the crepe. Something like  
this one:
 900-watt professional crepe maker style simplifies the cooking of  
crepes and blintzes, making it foolproof.

The 7-1/2-inch-diameter cooking surface is coated with nonstick  
material and is slightly convex.

Dipping it into crepe batter coats it uniformly.

http://professionalcrepemaker.com/villaware-crepe-maker-v5225-review/

Amazon sells a variety actually. Take a look there.

Johnnae

On Sep 20, 2010, at 2:27 AM, Stefan li Rous asked lots of questions.
<<< You obviously didn't join the Society during the crepe heyday of  
the 1970's when they were served at feasts. >>>

No, I didn't join the SCA until 1988 or so.  Is there a particular  
reason crepes were popular? Was it just because they were different?
Stefan

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 13:19:55 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Feeding the cat was Crepes

<<< I repeated the old tale of how Napoleon said the first crepe is always fed to the cat,  

Adamantius >>>

On Sep 20, 2010, at 11:29 AM, Michael Gunter wrote:
<<< Okay this is funny because I didn't know about this quote but I often fed my first crepe to my bread-loving kitten. The first crepe usually doesn't cook right because the oil is too clean. The impurities added by cooking that first crepe makes the rest come out perfect. >>>

Not sure about the impurities in the oil; maybe... I had always worked on the assumption the pan wasn't evenly heated the first attempt or two, pores in the metal had not yet opened to admit oil, etc. Whatever the reason, the first crepe to hit the pan is very often not optimal in quality.

Adamantius

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 12:40:12 -0500
From: Michael Gunter <dookgunthar at hotmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Feeding the cat was Crepes

<<< Not sure about the impurities in the oil; maybe... I had always worked on the assumption the pan wasn't evenly heated the first attempt or two, pores in the metal had not yet opened to admit oil, etc. Whatever the reason, the first crepe to hit the pan is very often not optimal in quality.

Adamantius >>>

According to Russ Parsons in "How to Read a French Fry" new oil doesn't fry well because fried foods create a water barrier which prevents the oil from drying out the surface. When food is fried it creates a type of soap which breaks up the water barrier and allows the oil to contact the food surface and brown the food.

So fresh oil cannot properly cook until some impurities are added from previously fried material. This is why the first batch of french fries or pancakes or crepes or whatever are usually tossed. The impurities allow the water barrier created to be broken up and browning to commence.

Gunthar 			  		 

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 11:57:24 -0600
From: Susan Lin <susanrlin at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] crepes

A couple of observations:

Blini is not the plural of Blintz.  Blini are made with yeast and are
usually thicker - I often make mine with buckwheat flour.

I was always taught to make the crepe batter then put it through a fine
sieve and the let it rest in the fridge for an hour or two to make sure as
much of the bubbles have discipated as possible.  If you want nice crepes
without all those holes you need to let the batter rest.

While you can now get crepe pans in the US its just as easy to use a small
fry pan with low sides.  We have a non-stick one we ues jut for crepes - I
try very hard to make sure nobody comes near it with anything that can
scratch it because once its scratched it's garbage.

All that being said - use what you have.  I don't usually make my crepes
bigger than about 8 inches - a favorite filling is nutella

Shoshana

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 15:49:43 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] crepes

<<< I was always taught to make the crepe batter then put it through a fine
sieve and the let it rest in the fridge for an hour or two to make sure as
much of the bubbles have discipated as possible.  If you want nice crepes
without all those holes you need to let the batter rest. >>>

Also keeps them from being tough. Ideally, you don't even stir the batter too much without waiting another 20 minutes before cooking...

Adamantius

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:56:54 -0500
From: Fields Family Farm <fields at texas.net>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] crepes

I use fertilized eggs all of the time.  All of the eggs we eat in my house
come from my 30 chickens (or 12 ducks), and the 4 roosters do their best to
make sure every chicken egg is fertilized.  :)

You can't tell a fertilized egg from a non-fertilized egg with the naked
eye, until the chicken sits on it for a while.  The difference is
microscopic initially.

Hrethric

On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>wrote:
Stefan quoted and wrote:
The one from Le Menagier de Paris says:
<<< CREPES. Take flour and mix with eggs both yolks and whites, but >throw
out the germ... >>>

What does the "throw out the germ" mean here?

Since I get the digest, someone's probably answered, but I think it's the
little firm, whitish bit that you find in the egg white. It doesn't melt or
go away and would make a small lumpy bit in an otherwise flat crepe.

And consider they probably used fertilized eggs, not the unfertilized ones
that are usual now.  This is the bit that will grow into a chick.

Ranvaig

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 19:15:42 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] crepes

<<< No, I didn't join the SCA until 1988 or so.  Is there a particular reason 
crepes were popular? Was it just because they were different? It seems 
like they would be difficult to serve in a feast environment without them 
getting cold or have a bad texture. I am always interested in hearing 
about the early days of the SCA which I missed, so I'd love to hear more 
details.

Stefan >>>

It's probably a regional rage.  I don't recall crepes being served much in 
Ansteorra, except for a couple of breakfast taverns.

Bear 

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 19:30:32 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] crepes

Blini is the plural of blin.  The word is Russian.

Blintz is the Yiddish form of the Belorussian, blintsy, the plural of 
blinets.

All of the words refer to pancakes.  All derive from the Old Russian, 
blintsu.  Apparently the differences in the product are regional.

Bear

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 20:46:38 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] crepes

I'll just mention the book titled Pancake by Ken Albala. It covers a  
wide range of recipes and history and it can be searched online at Amazon.

Johnnae

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