Title: porridges-msg
Subject: Period porridges and gruels.
Author: Edited by Mark S. Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: medieval, porridge, gruel, grain, cereal, oatmeal

porridges-msg – 9/19/14

Period porridges and gruels.

NOTE: See also the files: bread-msg, rice-msg, grains-msg, flour-msg, breakfast-msg, beer-msg, Ancent-Grains-art, polenta-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:32:53 -0700
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: RE: SC - s medieval food yucky?

At 1:30 PM -0400 5/4/98, Tamara Crehan wrote:
>I have found Irish Oatmeal, sold in tins in Stop & Shop and Shaws
>supermarkets. Mc Cann's Irish Oatmeal from the tins is whole oats.
>Makes a delicious porridge and amazing cookies!

Works for a plausible reconstruction of the oat cakes that Froissart
mentions, too.

David/Cariadoc
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/

Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:15:57 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - barley

troy at asan.com writes:
<< nother reason might be that many country people often had little or no
 easy access to either commercially baked bread or to an oven, which
 also, BTW, requires more fuel to cook the same amount of grain, so
 porridge-y foods might appear to be the way to go. >>

I would like to point out that the overwhelming factor in the use of gruels
and porridges over baked bread, if such was the case, would also probably have
been due to the fact that, at least in the villages and cities of the MA, you
did not bake your bread at home. By law you, took your dough to the community
oven for baking and more often than not bought the dough you took to the
oven from a person who made dough.

Given that cash money was scarce in the MA, it would have been wiser to cook
up a dish of gruel than to pay the baker.

Ras

Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:19:12 EST
From: Seton1355 at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Buckwheat Groats

> What are Buckwheat Groats (kashar)?

 (Finially a question I can answer :-)   )
Kasha, or buckwheat Groats is the whole grain of buckwheat. It's pretty cheap
stuff!  Neither wheat bran nor cracked wheat come close to the taste of kasha,
but kasha is easy to find.  Look for Wolfe's (brand name) kasha in the Kosher
foods section of the supermarket or go to the health food store and get kasha.
 It is a staple feature of Eastern European ( & Jewish) cooking.

Phillipa Seton

Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 08:17:45 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Buckwheat Groats

Seton1355 at aol.com wrote:
> > What are Buckwheat Groats (kashar)?

> Kasha, or buckwheat Groats is the whole grain of buckwheat. It's pretty cheap
> stuff!  Neither wheat bran nor cracked wheat come close to the taste of kasha,
> but kasha is easy to find.  Look for Wolfe's (brand name) kasha in the Kosher
> foods section of the supermarket or go to the health food store and get kasha.
>  It is a staple feature of Eastern European ( & Jewish) cooking.

> Phillipa Seton

For practical purposes I'm in total agreement.

I'd just like to add one or two little things:

I gather, from reading the Domestroi, that "kasha" is simply a Russian
term meaning "grain", but agree that in most cases today it seems to
refer to buckwheat.

You may also find whole buckwheat or groats in markets that sell
Japanese foods, under the name "soba", which seems to refer to buckwheat
in general, buckwheat flour, and buckwheat noodles. But I agree also
that Wolfe's Kasha is probably as good an introduction as you can get to
buckwheat (especially with mushrooms and/or egg bows!) There's a
somewhat involved recipe on the box for turning the kasha into a pilaf;
my recommendation is that you go ahead and follow it!

Adamantius
Østgardr, East

Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 20:09:06 -0600
From: "Jennifer D. Miller" <jdmiller2 at students.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Buckwheat Groats

>I gather, from reading the Domestroi, that "kasha" is simply a Russian
>term meaning "grain", but agree that in most cases today it seems to
>refer to buckwheat.

More precisely, it means "dish of cooked grains or groats".  This could
refer to a porridge or a pilaf (is that the same as a frumenty?).  Today,
it can also refer to cooked rice or semolina.  The Russian word for grain
is  "zerno", "zernishko" or "krupinka".

True, here in the West it does refer to buckwheat.  However, in Russia
kasha is the generic term for cooked cereal.  Some types of kasha (from
"The Russian's World" by Gerhart) are:

"mannaia kasha" -- cream of wheat
"grechnevaia kasha" -- buckwheat cereal
"pshennaia kasha " or "pshenka" -- a main dish of millet
"iachnevaia kasha" -- fine-grind barley kasha
"perlovaia kasha" -- whole-grain barley kasha
"gerkulesovaia kasha" -- name-brand cereal similar to oatmeal ("Hercules's
Kasha")

My husband has told me that several different types of kasha were offered
each morning at the Russian dormitory he lived in.  They were eaten topped
with oil (not butter) and as far as he saw, nothing else.  Sugar was not
available, no honey or preserves were in evidence.  Salt was on the tables,
though.  Unfortunately (the kasha was included in his meal plan), he hates
cooked cereal and ate bread and fruit, although he could have bought
Western-type ($10 a box) cereal .

Another grain dish, kut'ia, is made of steamed grain (usually wheat or
rice), raisins, honey and nuts.  It was, and still is in many places, a
required item served at post-funeral meals.  It is a period dish, but I
don't have the references handy at the moment.

>From the Domostroi (Pouncy:149):
"They [good housewives] stuff the entrails with kasha cooked with suet and
simmered (the kasha can be made from oatmeal, buckwheat, barley, or
whatever is available).  If these [sausages] are not eaten up in the
autumn, they make a pleasant Christmas feast."

The _Domostroi_ also mentions "thin kasha with ham" and "thick kasha with
lard", saying, "this is what most people give their servants for dinner,
although they vary the menu according to which meat is available.
(Pouncy:161).  Cooking directions for kasha are on page 163; "steam it well
with lard, oil, or herring in a broth."  Several other fish are mentioned
as alternative accompaniments.  Pouncy has a footnote saying that the lard
(or possibly, butter) was probably for meat days and the oil for fast days.

To close, here is a popular Russian saying:
"Shchi da kasha--pishcha nasha" (Cabbage soup and kasha is our food)
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Ilyana Barsova (Yana)  ***mka Jennifer D. Miller
jdmiller2 at students.wisc.edu *** http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~jdmiller2
Slavic Interest Group http://vms.www.uwplatt.edu/~goldschp/slavic.html

Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:40:47 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Frumenty - ANOTHER question!

> except for the philosophical
> debate that arose over whether wheat berries, cracked wheat or bulgur
> would have been a closer texture match to what period diners would have
> gotten/expected.
>
> That is, chewey whole grain kernels in sauce, or flavored mush.

I've used whole berry, cracked wheat and fine flour to produce various
cooked grain dishes.  I would expect the cook to choose the form of the
grain to produce the intended taste and texture.

> We prepared 4 versions, 3 with wheat berries, and one with cracked wheat,
> which may have turned out mushier than if we'd used "bulgur" -- cracked
> wheat and bulgur -are- two different things, yes?  We're assuming bulgur
> is to cracked wheat sort of like steel-cut oats oatmeal is to rolled oats
> oatmeal, and are going to check by doing a set for next meeting.

Not exactly.  Cracked wheat is made from wheat berries which have been dried
and ground.  For bulgur wheat, the berries are parboiled, dried and ground.
In both cases, whole berries, including the germ, are used and the meal is
sieved into 3 or 4 grades, #1-Fine, #2-Medium, #3-Coarse and #4-Extra
Coarse.

The chief difference is the bulgur wheat, having been pre-cooked, softens
and cooks up quickly, while whole grain and cracked wheat reallny need to
soak overnight and cook for a long time.

#1 and #2 bulgur are commonly used in tabouleh, while #3 and #4 are used to
replace rice in pilafs.

> And someone raised the side issue that the common commercial wheat
> berries that we used were probably a hard wheat, where most of the period
> European stuff was a soft variety.  Whether this is a distinction we can
> expect to impose on hotel cooks (Double Tree) may make this a moot point,
> but it was raised.  Although in -this- town, we probably have a
> reasonably good chance of their finding it if they look for it, at least.

Hard and soft should have no bearing on cooked grain (except that soft may
be a little sweeter).  I tend to use hard red winter wheat berries for whole
grain wheat, because they are inexpensive and easy to obtain.

The common wheat in medieval Europe was emmer (Triticum dicoccum) which was
a soft wheat.  Spelt (Triticum spelta) was less common and is a hard wheat.
So either may have been available, although spelt was more common in Central
Europe.

> So, there's another couple of questions!  Who woulda thunk it!
>
> Thanks, & looking forward to erudition, enlightenment, etc., 8-),
> Chimene & Gerek

Bear

Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:14:51 -0700
From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>
Subject: SC - Early Medieval Irish Bread and Porridges

Considering the discussions which have gone on about bread on the list in
the recent past, I thought some people might be interested in a
serendipitous find I made while checking the carts of new books at the
college where I teach.

Regina Sexton, "Porridges, Gruels and Breads: The Cereal Foodstuffs of Early
Medieval Ireland", in EARLY MEDIEVAL MUNSTER: ARCHAEOLOGY, HISTORY AND
SOCIETY, ed. Michael A. Monk and John Sheehan ( Cork: Cork University press,
1998), pp. 76-86.

The article is based on information from the literature and legal documents
from the early material of Ireland, and the author is able to reconstruct a
surprising amount about these foods, including what was eaten with them as
condiments. While there is no specific recipe given, there is enough detail
available to indicate the ingredients, shaping and handling, cooking
techniques, etc., so that I should think a modern experimenter could make a
pretty close approximation of the beard eaten by the early Irish. The
section headings give a good picture of the contents:

Porridges and gruels
Breads
Ingredients of bread
Baking utensils and methods of preparation
Monastic and penitential bread
The condiments and relishes associated with bread
Conclusion
Notes and bibliography

Yours culinarily,
Francesco Sirene

Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 08:33:59 +0100 (MET)
From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at algonet.se>
Subject: SC - viking age porridge

I spoke earlier of a viking age (a 10th C. Gotland womans grave, IIRC)
porridge based on archeological finds. I just rechecked with the one of
the archaeologist who worked with the find, and what the analysis said
was that it contained barley and pea, with milkfats most likely from
sheep.

I first thought that I should play with this in pease, and then propose
a reconstruction based on the data. But then I decided that this group
had too little traffic, and decided to see what could be done with it.

Ok, what suggestions does the group have for how to reconstruct it?

/UlfR
- -- 
Par Leijonhufvud                                      parlei at algonet.se

Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 17:21:19 +0100 (MET)
From: UlfR <parlei-sc at algonet.se>
Subject: Re: Thanks and Breakfast question, was Re:SC - What would you do?

On Tue, 2 Jan 2001, Jenne Heise wrote:
> > Do you know which of the cereals you list correspond reasonably 
> > closely to things eaten in period? Rolled oat are, I think, a 19th 
> > century invention.
> 
> Does anyone have a source for period-type oat meal to make period oat meal
> porridge? 

There is (at least) two in Curye on Ingish. One is not what most would
think of as a breakfast food (gruel forced, it has meat added to the
boiled gruel), but the other would not be too far off. I can't recall
the full recipie, but I think it is oatmeal, boiled with stock (this is
where I'm uncertain), and with almond milk added after boiling. I'll
post the recipie tonight.

/UlfR
- -- 
Par Leijonhufvud                                      parlei at algonet.se

Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:19:52 -0700
From: Edouard de Bruyerecourt <bruyere at jeffnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] crockpot oatmeal
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius wrote:
> Scottish and Irish porridge enthusiasts would probably suggest that
> the secret of a good porridge is a certain amount of aeration;
> probably the same rules for a good risotto apply, and I gather that
> fine hotels in Scotland give the porridge a couple of good whips with
> a balloon whisk immediately before serving.

Constant stirring while cooking is a traditional method. But with a
wooden _spirtle_ (wooden 'stick'), not a metal whisk. I imagine fine
hotels in Scotland are resigned to feeding foreigners. They probably
caved in and offer treacle and sugar for it, as well. [shudder]

I buy whole groats and give them a quick spin in a grain mill to make a
coarse oat meal (works great in bread, too). Or you can buy it that way,
labed as Scots oatmeal or porridge, or sometimes steel cut groats. Bring
water to a rolling boil, turn down to a simmer, add salt, then drizzle
in the meal while stirring. Keep stiring until it's cooked and thickens
up. This is the 'short-cut' method I've used at events, and it usually
takes longer to bring the water to a boil (for just me, a cup or so of
water) than to cook the porridge, and the porridge is a bit past 'al
dente' so to speak. If I let it cool, it's thick enough to slice.

I don't use, or like,  rolled oats except in my muesli or cookies. I
also expect that the meal cooks fast than 'old-fashioned' rolled oats
because there is greater surface area per volume than the rolled oats.
The consistency is from near flour to really coarse corn meal/cut
groats, akin to grits and Malt-o-meal.

Traditional Scots oat porridge: oat meal, salt, stirred with a spirtle,
eaten standing up (nobody remembers why you stand, you just do). Those
that put sugar in it deserve to have their cattle and sheep 'wander  
off.' :)

I tend to agree that cooking them in a stock pot overnight would not do.
Probably make them mushy or gluey if you had enough water.
--  
Edouard, Sire de Bruyerecourt

Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 07:15:05 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
	<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pottage?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Also sprach Stefan li Rous:
> So, what is a good definition of a "pottage"? What are the dividing
> lines between a pottage, a stew, a bruit, a porridge and a soup?

Oy! Always he wants the straight, simple answers to complicated
kvest... I mean questions.

The short answer is there are no dividing lines between those dishes
so named, or rather, the names have denoted increasingly broadened
sets over time, to the point where there's been considerable blurring
of the "lines" and overlapping of the categories.

Mostly what we can fall back on is the original, dictionary
definition of each word, as determined when the dictionary entries
were written and/or back-determined, if you know what I mean.

So. A pottage, depending on who you talk to, is either a dish cooked
in a pot, or a dish sufficiently liquid to drink (as in potable). You
eat it with a spoon. The Larousse Gastronomique defines a potee as
anything cooked in an earthenware pot, and I was taught that to the
French, a potage (with one "t") is a soup with a phase of thin to
semi-thick liquid with solids in it, anything from, say, minestrone
to New England Clam Chowder. In Middle English I'd say a pottage is
anything you eat with a spoon or drink, as opposed to something you
eat with a knife -- IOW, there is a clear distinction between
lechemeats and pottages, but just to make sure Stefan is confused,
roasts can be cut up and sauced or recooked to make pottages ;-).

A stew is pretty straightforward. With a surprisingly small number of
exceptions (i.e. bouillabaisse), stews are denoted by slow, gentle
cooking, usually of tough meats and wintry vegetables. Similar to
braising. The name appears to refer to a cooking method and, perhaps,
a related piece of equipment, the use of a fire whose temperature can
be kept low and burn slowly and long, later using a firebox called a
stove. Estouffade and etouffee are essentially stews, both in concept
and etymology.

A brewet? It's brewed, I guess. I'm not sure if the medieval
distinction between it and other slow-cooked liquid foods is any more
clear, but maybe it's a tradition derived from saying the same thing
in two different languages, which is something you run across a lot
in medieval England. Hieatt and Butler aren't much help; their
glossary in Curye On Inglysch says a brewet or a bruet is a broth, or
something cooked in it. OTOH, since broths are made by cooking things
in water, it has a dual nature as both a foundation and a by-product,
which makes the definition just a bit circular.

A porridge today denotes a grain-based dish, usually a moderately
thin gruelly stuff, at least when hot, but the name appears to
ultimately come down to leeks, from something like poree or poire in
French. In simpler terms, porrey is a leek soup, and by extension,
any of several soupy green vegetable dishes (I believe le Menagier
identifies spinach specifically as "a kind of porrey"). I suspect
that grains got added to porreys as a thickener, and over time became
the dominant ingredient.

Soups are dishes of liquidy stuff poured over sops of bread, usually,
but not always, toasted. Mostly they were (back in the days when sops
were involved) relatively thin, but as always, the exception
sometimes proves the rule.

So, as I said earlier in my rant on the blurred lines, all of the
above are pottages (but not necessarily potages ;-) ), and some are
soups, in addition to whatever else they may be.

Adamantius

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 07:51:17 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius"
	<adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Noty or Notye
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Also sprach Stefan li Rous:
> Doc gave a period recipe for Noty or Notye:
>> On Jan 31, 2005, at 11:30 AM, Micheal wrote:
>>>  I once had a dish of Noty or Notye can`t remember which that was
>>>  creamy instead clear broth would anyone have the recipe. I now its 
>>>  in one of the books but I can not remember which one.
>>>  Walnuts, Sausage meat, and cream, were some of the ingredients.
>>
>> Is this the one?
>>
>> Noteye. Take a gret porcyoun of Haselle leuys, & grynd in a morter as
>> smal as thou may, whyl that they be onge; take than, & draw vppe a
>> thrift Mylke of Almaundys y-blaunchyd, & temper it with Freysshe
>> brothe; wryng out clene the Ius of the leuys; take Fleysshe of Porke or
>> of Capoun, & grynd it smal, & temper it vppe with the mylke, & caste it
>> in a potte, & he Ius ther-to, do it ouer the fyre & late it boyle;
>> take flour of Rys, & a-lye it; take & caste Sugre y-now ther-to, &
>> Vynegre a quantyte, & pouder Gyngere, & Safroun it wel, & Salt; take
>> smal notys, & breke hem; take the kyrnellys, & make hem whyte, & fye
>> hem vppe in grece; plante ther-with thin mete & serue forth.
>> [Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books]

> Okay, but what type of dish is this? I'm afraid I'm not getting very
> far in even figuring out just what sort of thing this is, even when
> I can identify some of the ingredients, much less creating a
> redaction of it. What are "notys"? eggs?

Nuts.

"'Nutty'. Take a great portion of hazel leaves, and grind them in a
mortar as small as you may, while they are young [small, tender, and
mild-flavored?]; then take and draw up a thrifty [multiple infusions
to get the most out of the almonds?] milk of almonds, blanched, and
mix it with fresh broth; wring out clean the juice of the leaves
[through a cloth], take flesh of pork or of capon [probably boiled to
make the broth], and grind it small, and mix it with the milk, and
put it in a pot, and add the juice to it, and put it over the fire
and let it boil. Take rice flour and thicken it; add enough sugar to
it, and some vinegar, and powdered ginger, and plenty of saffron, and
salt. Take small nuts and break them; take the kernels and blanch
them, and fry them up in grease, stud your meat [dish/food] with
them, and serve forth."

This seems to be a thick spoon-food, with a consistency something
like oatmeal porridge, made by boiling pork or capon, mixing some of
the broth with a rich almond milk, adding pounded meat back to the
broth to thicken and enrich it, thickening it further with rice flour
[by which time it should end up being thick enough to hold up the nut
kernels you're going to stick in its surface later], plus the pressed
juice of crushed young hazel leaves (as in, the tree hazel nuts come
from, hence the name of the dish), and adding various flavorings and
a final garnish of fried nut kernels.

To me, the biggest unanswered question in all of this is what effect
the hazel leave puree will have: although we do have cattails locally
here, I don't know if we have hazel trees, what their leaves look
like, whether they're bright green like parsley, a muted green like
sage, highly flavored, astringent, sour like sorrel, or what, and
these unknowns are obviously going to make a big difference in the
character of the final dish. I assume that, since the recipe cautions
us to use young leaves, and since we have to pound and strain them,
the "young" qualifier has something to do with the flavor or the
content of some chemical (maybe tannins or some such) present in the
leaves.

Anybody have a hazel tree in the yard, and wanna go out and taste a
leaf or two for scientific purposes?

Adamantius

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:29:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Pat <mordonna22 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pease porridge?
To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net, Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net> wrote:
> Anybody got a good redaction of pease porridge?

How about Perry of Peson from Forme of Cury?
Original:
Perry of Peson XX .III.XX
Take peson and seep him saft and cove hem til (th)ei berst.  (th)enne 
take up hem and cole hem thurgh a cloth.  take oynons and mynce he and 
see(th) he in the esame sewe and oile (th)with.  cast (th)to sugur, 
salt, and safron,  and see(th) hem well (th)aft and sue hem forth.

My adaptation:
1 lb. lentils
1 small onion
1 TBS. olive oil
1 tsp. sugar
1 tsp. salt
pinch saffron

Cover the lentils with cold water, bring to a boil, cover and reduce 
heat, and simmer until they begin to burst (about half an hour.)  
Strain them from the broth, reserving the broth.  Puree them with a 
blender or food processor, then strain through cheesecloth.  Mince the 
onion and boil it in the broth with the oil until tender.  Add the 
lentils back to the broth return it to the boil, stirring constantly to 
avoid sticking.  Serve immediately.

I used lentils instead of New World peas.  I suppose you could also use 
black eyed peas or the elusive "white" peas.  At this time of year, 
you'd be using dried peas, so cooking time would be more.

Pat Griffin
Lady Anne du Bosc
known as Mordonna the Cook
Shire of Thorngill, Meridies
Mundanely, Millbrook, AL

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:57:45 -0500
From: "Jeff Gedney" <gedney1 at iconn.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: cold cereal and milk
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Terry Decker wrote:
>> What is the evidence for putting milk on porridge, as opposed to cooking
>> the meal in milk?  Was adding milk to hot cereal common practice in 1877
>> when the first cold cereal was developed or may not the practice of adding
>> milk to hot cereal have grown out of the practice of adding milk  
>> to cold cereal?
>>
>> Bear
>>
>>> Using one of those leaps of logic we all so detest, I hypothesize  
>>> that putting milk on cold cereal was a natural evolutionary  
>>> progression from putting milk on porrige.
>>>
>>> Berelinde,

Excuse me...

But was it not unknown to make a breakfast of stale or
toasted bread, crumbled in a bowl with milk or custard
poured thereon?

"Milk Toast"

The first packaged precooked cereal for use with milk was
probably invented in 1863 by James Jackson. It was
essentially a prepared Milk toast, made of hardened loaves
of unleavened whole grain bread, not unlike Ships biscuit,
and broken into little pieces and served it for breakfast
after soaking the brittle chunks overnight in warmed or
fresh milk. Jackson appears to have named this mixture
"granula".

( nota bene: Grape nuts are still made the same, using a
twice baked barley loaf run through a grater, and toasted
again )

In 1877, Dr. John Harvey Kellogg created a similar cereal
called he also called granola, made from toasted rolled
whole grains.
This was was served the same way, though it's texture
allowed one to skip the long overnight soak, for a quick
breakfast. Then in 1902 Kellog invented Korn Flakes, trying
to make use of cheaper more plentiful corn.
As Corn toasts soaked in milk or buttermilk was already a
common food in the South, it was not a stretch to try to
granola-ize corn. By drying it in flakes it vastly
increased shelf life, and improved texture.

Shelf life, achieved by baking out all the moisture, was
a major consideration in the success of this form of
breakfast.

Just as a note, It is likely that the first advocate of a vegetarian  
cold breakfast of essentially crakers and milk
was Dr Sylvester Graham, who invented a Graham crakers partly
as a way to return fiber to the meat and dairy heavy 19th
century American diet (to which he ascribed all sorts of
medical problems from cancer to sexual disfunction).

I believe that Kellogg was a student/partner of Jackson's,
Jackson founded the Sanitarium that Kellogg was to run at
the close of the 19th century, and Jackson was very heavily
influenced by Graham. Jackson was a member of the Seventh Day
Adventists, who founded the Sanitarium based on Graham's
principles.

C.W. Post probably got the idea for his cereals, including
Grape Nuts, when he was a patient at "the San".

SO I think it probably all goes back to Dr. Sylvester Graham.

Porridge does not seem to have entered into the milk on cereal concept.
It is just as likely that the notion of putting milk into
oatmeal came from habits and tastes acquired eating cold
cereal, not the other way around.

Many people prefer their oatmeal without milk.
I know I do. A little butter and maple or cinnamon and
sugar is preferable to me.

Capt Elias
Dragonship Haven, East
(Stratford, CT, USA)
Apprentice in the House of Silverwing

-Renaissance Geek of the Cyber Seas

Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 21:55:50 -0400
From: Patrick Levesque <petruvoda at videotron.ca>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Porridge, tobacco
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org, "Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>"	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

In that order, and more or less related topics, too :-)

I was trying to access the archives to read up on a past discussion on
porridge, more to the point, of using milk in porridge and cereals in
general. I just happened to stumble across a chapter of L'Agriculture et la
Maison Rustique (1572) that mentioned eating oat meal with milk and sugar,
and thought this would be of interest. I'm sorry if that point was already
made, as the archives are not available.

<snip. See smoking-msg. – Stefan>

Petru

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:14:35 -0400
From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] oatmeal/hot cereal?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

--On Wednesday, June 21, 2006 5:01 PM -0500 Anne-Marie Rousseau
<dailleurs at liripipe.com> wrote:
> has anyone had success making oatmeal/hot cereal on the fire? I'm hoping
> to find a  method that involves real oats (not the rolled kind, etc) that
> I can start a fire,  set it burbling and ignore for a bit while I chop up
> dried fruit, etc
>
> 1. what kind of oats/grains did you use?
> 2. what were your favorite add ins?
> 3. I remember vaguly a recipe for a hot cereal dish from le menagier?
> maybe? anyone  have access to their books who can look it up?
>
> bascially I'm looking for an easy breakfast dish to do during a weeklong
> re- enactment event. the rest of camp may be happy living off smoked
> fish, hard boiled  eggs and such but me, I needs me some fiber ;)

As I understand it, what you want is called brose. You use pinhead oats,
and make it just like you would instant -- put the oatmeal in a bowl, cover
with boiling water, cover and let it steam for about 5 minutes.

The Scots Independent provides a lovely description of the process
(<http://www.scotsindependent.org/features/food/oatmeal_brose.htm>)

Oatmeal brose was the true foundation of the expedition, and the correct
method of making it must be put on record. A quantity of coarse oatmeal -
with salt 'to taste' as they say - is placed in a bowl and boiling water
poured over it. The water must be boiling hard as it pours and there should
be enough of it to just cover the oatmeal. A plate is immediately placed
over the bowl like a lid. You now sit by for a few minutes, gloating. This
is your brose cooking in its own steam. During this pause, slip a nut of
butter under the plate and into the brose. In four or five minutes whip off
the lid, stir the mass violently together, splash in some milk and eat. You
will never again be happy with the wersh and fushionless silky slop which
passes for porridge. This was the food whose devotees staggered the legions
of Rome; broke the Norsemen; held the Border for five hundred years; and
are standing fast on borders till. It is a dish for men. It also happens to
taste superbly. We ate it twice a day, frequently without milk, although
such a simplification demands what an Ayrshire farmer once described to me
as a 'guid-gaun stomach'. He is a happy traveller who has with him a bag of
oatmeal and a poke of salt. He will travel fast and far.'

toodles, margaret

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 17:43:02 -0500
From: Anne-Marie Rousseau <dailleurs at liripipe.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] oatmeal/hot cereal?
To: dailleurs at liripipe.com,	'Cooks within the SCA'
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,	'Kirsten Houseknecht'
	<kirsten at fabricdragon.com>

a bit more research suggests that if I take "scottish oats" from the  
local health food store and add them to the proper amount
of boiling water (maybe with a pat of butter for fun) and pull the  
pot off the fire, clamping on the lid, the heat of the pot
should keep them cooking enough to finish them (about 20 min). Stir  
in dried fruit, nuts, sugar, heavy cream, whatever and enjoy.

that's all theoretical, of course, but it seems like it might work.  
I'm also very curious to compare this to the period
recipes for cereal dishes I've seen...

--AM

On Wed Jun 21 16:22 , "Kirsten Houseknecht"  sent:

> you should be able to do almost any kind of oatmeal, but set it  
> near. not in.. the fire.
> i cooked porridge once "on the fire"......
> i put barley, and rice, and lentils in water to "soak" and forgot them
> overnight.
> they were next to the fire pit.
> they were cooked in the morning
> Kirsten Houseknecht

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:50:02 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] oatmeal/hot cereal?
To: <dailleurs at liripipe.com>,	"Cooks within the SCA"
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Almost any grain dish of this sort can be prepared by initially boiling the
grain or meal, then covering it and setting it aside to finish cooking.  Set
the pot where it will stay warm, but not scorch.  Whole grains should
probably be boiled until they burst, then set aside to finish cooking.

Menagier prepares millet, wheat and barley.  The barley is essentially
prepared to be an "instant" food for invalids.  I think Menagier is using
whole grains rather than meal.  I prefer cracked grains for speed and
convenience.

Hulled, whole oats will probably take longer than you want.  I assume your
reference to "rolled oats" is to the partially milled oats in the big card
board containers.  Oats rolled into big fat flakes have a much more
interesting texture.  Steel cut or pinhead oats provide a chunky texture,
while stone ground oat meal will make a smoother gruel.  I like the steel
cut oats with brown sugar and cream (however, I usually get 2% milk, sigh).

Bear

> has anyone had success making oatmeal/hot cereal on the fire? I'm hoping to
> find a method that involves real oats (not the rolled kind, etc) that I can
> start a fire, set it burbling and ignore for a bit while I chop up dried 
> fruit, etc
>
> --Anne-Marie

Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 00:07:29 -0700
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at jeffnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] oatmeal/hot cereal?
To: dailleurs at liripipe.com,	Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I like a five-grain or seven-grain blend (I think it's Red Mill, but not
certain), which can cook while I'm puttering around with other things.
(Have to stop and stir once in awhile though- don't want it scorched.) Just
before I serve it, I like to stir in a beaten egg. Makes for a nice creamy
texture, and a bit of added protein. Sometimes I add dried fruit (added to
the water when I first put it on the boil- it plumps up nice that way), a
bit of cinnamon, or a whole, grated apple. Milk and a bit of brown sugar,
and I'm good to go!

'Lainie

Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:20:48 -0400
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] oatmeal/hot cereal?
To: dailleurs at liripipe.com,	Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> has anyone had success making oatmeal/hot cereal on the fire?

Like someone else said, near, not on the fire.
Here is an Irish recipe that we use in our 10th
c. Living history.  It is a solid pudding you
slice, not porridge and tastes wonderful. We've
never had any leftovers, but you could probably
fry slices in some butter the next morning if you
did.
Ranvaig

Oat Pudding (Litti?)
2 c coarsely ground oats (run lightly through a
food processor), 2 c milk, 1/2 tsp salt or to
taste, egg yolks (optional), butter
Heat milk to the simmering point without boiling,
so that small bubbles form around the rim of the
pot. Add oats and salt. If you wish to make it
even richer, you can add the egg yolks, well
beaten, to the mixture. Pour the mixture into
greased bowl or fireproof dish, and set it,
covered, by the fire for about 45 minutes,
turning it regularly so that it cooks evenly and
solidly. Or bake at 300?. As it cooks, it will
pull away from the bowl a bit. It can be cut in
wedges in the bowl, or turned out onto a plate,
accompanied by rich cream and drizzled honey. The
dish is described in books of monastic rules, and
is prescribed in the Brehon law as the
appropriate food with which noble hostages and
foster sons are nourished by right.

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 05:51:00 +0200
From: UlfR <ulfr at hunter-gatherer.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] oatmeal/hot cereal?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Anne-Marie Rousseau <dailleurs at liripipe.com> [2006.06.22] wrote:
> has anyone had success making oatmeal/hot cereal on the fire? I'm
> hoping to find a method that involves real oats (not the rolled kind,
> etc) that I can start a fire, set it burbling and ignore for a bit
> while I chop up dried fruit, etc

Sure, lots of times (as in every morning).

The trick i that you can not treat a fire as an electric stove: if it is
on the fire you need to keep an eye on it. My solution is to hang the
pot next to the fire, not over it, which works the same as the back of
the woodstove.

> 1. what kind of oats/grains did you use?

Rolled oats (which gets better if you add them to boiling instead of
cold water), rolled rye, varieos multi-grain mixes, barley. My gang
prefers the barley, boiled with some stock and with fresh soft cheese
added afterwards.

> 2. what were your favorite add ins?

A stock-cube (or the real thing) or apple pieces. Don't forget the
porridge for real men (gruel enforced) in Cury on Inglish; good stuff,
and one day I will figure out how to serve it to the masses.

Fresh blueberries makes for a colorful porridge, not to everyone’s
liking.

> basically I'm looking for an easy breakfast dish to do during a
> weeklong re- enactment event. the rest of camp may be happy living off
> smoked fish, hard boiled eggs and such but me, I needs me some fiber

Make some sort of porridge. Mix leftover with flour and pan-fry into
bread. Or just pan-fry sourdough bread over the campfire. Either thin
cakes (think naan or some such), or thicker on a skillet propped up
facing the flames. If you are careful you can bake in a pot next to
the fire, just keep turning it to bake the bread evenly. No period
documentation for the latter two techniques, but they work.

UlfR
--  
UlfR Ketilson                               ulfr at hunter-gatherer.org

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:20:59 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] oatmeal/hot cereal?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

IIRC, this is very similar to the millet recipe in Menagier.

Bear

----- Original Message -----
>> Oat Pudding (Litti?)
>
> of course, it may not be period,

I'm told that the dish is period.  The exact
redaction might not be.. but there really isnt
much to change.. milk and oats.. cook slowly
until solid

Ranvaig

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 08:31:53 -0600
From: "Kathleen A Roberts" <karobert at unm.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] oatmeal/hot cereal?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 00:01:21 -0400
   ranvaig at columbus.rr.com wrote:
>>> Oat Pudding (Litti?)
>>
>> of course, it may not be period,
>
> I'm told that the dish is period.

oops.  sorry, i meant that using the stewed fruit as a
topping might not be period.  the littiu itself certainly
is from what i have read.

cailte

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 10:25:28 +0200
From: "Ana Valdes" <agora158 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fwd: [CAID] In need of Sweet Recipes!
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

In Sweden the sweet dish eaten in Christmas from old times is a
porridge made with rice and milk, sweetened with sugar or honey and
with almonds on it. "You cook about a cup of rice in a cup of water,
then once the rice is done and the water is absorbed, begin adding
five cups of milk (I'd suggest whole milk), about a cup at a time,
until all the milk is absorbed. You can add cinnamon and sugar if you
like, but the traditional recipe includes no sweetener and definitely
not an egg.

Serve after stirring in one blanched almond and (if you want) one
golden raisin. The person who gets the almond, the tradition goes,
gets a gift."

The traditional recipe add not sugar but many friends and myself do.

Ana

Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 10:33:15 -0500
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 12th Night 2007 Stories
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Jan 7, 2007, at 9:13 AM, ranvaig at columbus.rr.com wrote:

>> On Jan 7, 2007, at 7:12 AM, Celia des Archier wrote:
>>>  any possibility of getting a recipe for the littiu?
>
> I have the recipe webbed here:
> http://www.geocities.com/ranvaig/medieval/kitchen.html

>>  why use this obviously Celtic name? Is it just an
>> Irish word for oats? Why is it not just oatmeal or porridge, or
>> flummery, or what distinguishes it from them?

It is the Early Irish word for porridge and this
was for the Irish Living History group, therefore
the Irish name.

Ranvaig

http://www.ceantar.org/Dicts/MB2/mb24.html
lit
porridge, Middle Irish lit?, Early Irish littiu,
g. litten, Welsh llith, mash: *litti?n- (Stokes),
*pl at .t-ti?, from pelt, polt, Greek  at Gp?ltos,
porridge, Latin puls, pultis, pottage.

Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 10:05:28 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 12th Night 2007 Stories
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

"Littiu" is the Early Irish form of "lit" and essentially means porridge.
It is related to the Welsh, "llith" which means mash.  It is perfectly
reasonable that an Early Irish persona would use the term for whatever
recipe of porridge they chose to make.

While there are a number of literary references, the one I remember most
commonly mentioned is from the Tain Bo Chulainn to the effect that it is the
porridge of the little boy that has made such a great warrior of the man.
The Irish lived on their cattle and the common grains in Ireland were oats
and barley, so oat and milk porridge would likely be common in Ancient
Ireland.  As oats are the highest in protein of any of the cereals, a
porridge of oats and milk would be a very nutritional dish suitable for the
sons of kings.

I would suspect that the recipe is a derivation from various sources and
that the accuracy depends on the quality of the research.

Bear

> This is interesting. Oats have been eaten in semi-solidified form for
> thousands of years, and I gather from looking at the stuff saved in
> the Florilegium that this is just oats and milk, cooked as a thick
> porridge and allowed to cool somewhat, so I'm not questioning this as
> a dish, per se. But if our knowledge of what this is/consists of is
> sorta sketchy, why use this obviously Celtic name? Is it just an
> Irish word for oats? Why is it not just oatmeal or porridge, or
> flummery, or what distinguishes it from them? Is it that the name has
> emerged from Irish poetry and people have felt the need to come up
> with a functional "recipe" to match it, and this is what it is?
>
> Just trying to understand the reasoning process...
>
> Adamantius

Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 11:56:33 -0700
From: "Kathleen A Roberts" <karobert at unm.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 12th Night 2007 Stories
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 09:13:59 -0500 ranvaig at columbus.rr.com wrote [about "Littiu"]:

> Its not so much a porridge as a solid pudding.  You put equal amounts
> of hot milk and oats in a pan in the oven or near but
> not over a fire and cook slowly without stirring.

and it makes a great dessert when siege cooking. 8)   i
admit i cheat and use wine simmered dried fruit as the
'sauce', but that's really good too.

cailte

Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:03:44 -0800
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Porridge for the sons of kings (was RE: 12th
	Night	2007 Stories)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> I remember reading somewhere, I'm sure it was either a tertiary source or a
> fictional account (I'm thinking it was most likely a historical novel)
> rather than somewhere reliable, a short bit on the proper preparation of
> porridge based on the rank of the son being fed; i.e., using cream for the
> sons of kings, milk for nobles, water for anyone beneath a certain rank. I'm
> wondering now if that was something that the author actually found in
> research, as this sounds similar.  Has anyone ever come across this in a
> primary source?  Is this perhaps what is meant when the Brehon Laws  
> were being referenced?
>
> Anyone know?
>
> Celia

It's in Brehon Law, my ex has the line and verse, I'll try to get the
specifics from him.  In English, to spare us all a lot of confusion.

Selene

Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 13:17:17 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Littiu was 12th Night 2007 Stories
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

The Littiu as described on the website
http://www.geocities.com/ranvaig/medieval/kitchen.htmlas
"The dish is described in books of monastic rules, and is prescribed in
the Brehon law as the appropriate food with which noble hostages and
foster sons are nourished by right."

Are we sure that this is correct?
The reason I ask is that Brid Mahon's Land of Milk and Honey
repeats this passage (I think it is the same one)
as

?The children of inferior grades are to be fed on porridge or stirabout
made of oatmeal on buttermilk or water taken with stale butter and are
to be given a bare sufficiency; the sons of chieftains are to be fed to
satiety on porridge made of barley meal upon new milk, taken with fresh
butter, while the sons of kings and princes are to be fed on porridge
made of wheaten meal, upon new milk, taken with honey.? page 64

The source is given as Ancient Laws of Ireland, volume 2 pp 148-151.

So wouldn't oats have been served to the lower class fosterings while
the sons of the upper classes would have eaten either barley or wheat?

Johnnae

Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2007 14:09:19 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Littiu was 12th Night 2007 Stories
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Jan 8, 2007, at 1:17 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:

> The Littiu as described on the website
> http://www.geocities.com/ranvaig/medieval/kitchen.htmlas
> "The dish is described in books of monastic rules, and is prescribed in
> the Brehon law as the appropriate food with which noble hostages and
> foster sons are nourished by right."
>
> Are we sure that this is correct?
> The reason I ask is that Brid Mahon's Land of Milk and Honey
> repeats this passage (I think it is the same one) as
>
> ?The children of inferior grades are to be fed on porridge or stirabout
> made of oatmeal on buttermilk or water taken with stale butter and are
> to be given a bare sufficiency; the sons of chieftains are to be fed to
> satiety on porridge made of barley meal upon new milk, taken with fresh
> butter, while the sons of kings and princes are to be fed on porridge
> made of wheaten meal, upon new milk, taken with honey.? page 64
>
> The source is given as Ancient Laws of Ireland, volume 2 pp 148-151.
>
> So wouldn't oats have been served to the lower class fosterings while
> the sons of the upper classes would have eaten either barley or wheat?
>
> Johnnae

Well, I was asking out of curiosity, more or less, for the reasoning
process, and not having any particular expectations in mind one way
or the other.

What I was able to dig up was this passage from P.W. Joyce's "A
Social History Of Ancient Ireland" (excuse the scanner/OCR fu):

"6. Corn and its preparations.

It will be seen in chapter xxiii., sect. 2 (pp. 271, 272, below),
that all the various kinds of grain cultivated at the present day
were in use in ancient Ireland. Corn was ground and sifted into
coarse and fine, i.e. into meal and flour, which were commonly kept
in chests. The staple food of the great mass of the people was
porridge, or as it is now called in Ireland, stirabout, made of meal
(Irish min), generally oatmeal. It was eaten with honey, butter, or
milk, as an annlann or condiment. So well was it under stood, even in
foreign countries, that stirabout was almost the universal food in
Ireland?a sort of characteristic of the country and its
people?that St. Jerome takes occasion to refer to the custom in a
letter directed against an Irish adversary, generally believed to be
the celebrated heresi arch Celestius, the disciple of Pelagius.
Jerome could use tongue and pen in hearty abuse like any ordinary
poor sinner: and he speaks revilingly of Celestius, who was a
corpulent man, as 'a great fool of a fellow swelled out with Irish
stirabout.'

The common word for stirabout was, and still is, littiu, modern
leite, gen. leitenn [letth?, letthen] ; but in the Brehon Laws and
elsewhere it is often called gruss. Gruel was called menadacli: it is
mentioned as part of the fasting fare of the Culdees. The Senchus M?r
annotator, laying down the regulations for the food of children in
fosterage, mentions three kinds of leite or stirabout : ? of
oatmeal, wheatmeal, and barleymeal: that made from oatmeal being the
most general. Wheatmeal stirabout was con sidered the best: that of
barleymeal was inferior to the others. For the rich classes,
stirabout was often made on new milk: if sheep's milk, so much the
better, as this was looked upon as a delicacy. Finn?leite,
'white?stirabout,' i.e. made on new milk, is designated by an
epicure, in an exaggerated strain ? 'the treasure that is smoothest
and sweetest of all food' : it was eaten with honey, fresh butter, or
new milk. For the poorer classes stirabout was made on water or
buttermilk, and eaten with sour milk or salt butter: but butter of
any kind was more or less of a luxury. All young persons in fosterage
were to be fed, up to a certain age, on stirabout, the quality and
condi ment (as distinguished above) being regulated according to the
rank of the parents."

Adamantius

Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 19:39:05 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Littiu Source
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Back in January of this year, we had some discussions on the list
regarding porridges and grain cereals. At the time Ranvaig posted some
material on "littiu" which was served in Ireland. I have come across a
really good paper on the topic and thought I should mention it.

It's by Regina Sexton. It's titled "Porridges, Gruels and Breads: The
Cereal Foodstuffs of Early Medieval Ireland." It appears as Chapter 9 in
Early Medieval Munster. Archaeology, History and Society. Edited by
Michael A. Monk and John Sheehan. Cork University Press, 1998. pages  
76-86.

Sexton says that Littiu is described in the legal text Cain Iarraith
as porridge made variously with oaten, barley or wheaten meal combined
with water, buttermilk or new milk. (CIH 1759.36-1760.2) In the comic
tale Aislinge meic Conglinne the same dish is made with sheep's milk. ?
The accompanying condiments for littiu include heavily salted preserved
butter (gruiten), fresh butter (imb) and honey (mil). (CIH
1759.36-1760.2), page 76.

CIH is the Corpus Iuris Hibernici, edited by D.A. Binchy. 6 volumes
published in Dublin in 1978.

Johnnae

Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 20:33:36 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Workhouse Diet
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

"Was the Victorian workhouse diet
sufficient for a 9-year-old boy? A group of British researchers ? two
dietitians, a pediatrician and a historian ? asked just that question in
a study published online Dec. 17 in The British Medical Journal."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/30/health/30diet.html?ref=science

If you read the article in the NYT, you'll see that it mentions 17th
century recipes for porridge. Well in the original BMJ article
that section reads:
"For our analysis we used a recipe for water gruel taken from a 17th
century English cookery text.[5] Unlike the gruel described by
Dickens, the gruel described in Pereira?s workhouse *diet*s is
substantial, not thin (each pint contained 1.25 oz of the best Berwick
oatmeal).[5]

The original footnote reads:
5. Matterer JL. 17th century English recipes. How to make water-gruel.
2002. www.godecookery.com/engrec/engrec120.html.

So in reality they seemed to have used the recipe off Master Huen's 
website. The text of the BMJ article is up at: http://tinyurl.com/8tdml3

Johnnae

Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:03:28 -0600
From: "Kathleen A Roberts" <karobert at unm.edu>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] In Search Of A Recipe

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 09:00:03 +1300
 Antonia Calvo <ladyadele at paradise.net.nz> wrote:
<<< Wow.  I assume the Scottish dessert they're referring to 
is Crowdie Cream, but that's just whipped cream, toasted 
oats, crushed raspberries and honey. >>>

reminds me of the irish stirabout, an oat porridge, which 
could be enriched with all kinds of things from cream to 
butter to fruit to nuts the higher your station.

cailte

Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 12:13:49 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Polenta was Pre-1600 recipes for "anchient
	grains"

On Apr 6, 2010, at 8:54 AM, Terry Decker wrote:
<<< I know of no period recipes for millet polenta, but the grain was  
available and the method of preparation is so simple and common that  
it was almost certainly done.
BTW, lightly toasting grain meals in the oven before making polenta  
improves the flavor.

Bear >>>

Here are the early French instructions for the millet porridge.  
Courtesy of medievalcookery.com:

This is an excerpt from Le Viandier de Taillevent
(France, ca. 1380 - James Prescott, trans.)
The original source can be found at James Prescott's website

Millet. Wash it in three changes of hot water and put it in simmering  
cow's milk. Do not put the spoon in it until it has boiled. Then  
remove it from on top of the fire and add a bit of saffron. Boil it  
until it is done, and set it out in bowls.

This is an excerpt from Le Menagier de Paris
(France, 1393 - Janet Hinson, trans.)
The original source can be found at David Friedman's website

MILLET. Wash it in three changes of water and then put in an iron  
skillet to dry over the fire, and shake it well, so that it does not  
burn; and then put it in simmering cow's milk, and do not let the  
spoon touch it until it has boiled well, and then take it off the  
fire, and beat it with the back of the spoon until it is very thick.

Johnna

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 03:45:59 -0700
From: Ian Kusz <sprucebranch at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] what's a tisana?

It appears to be a soup, not a tisane.

[173] ANOTHER TISANA *TISANA TARICHA *[1]

THE CEREAL [2] IS SOAKED; CHICKPEAS, LENTILS AND PEAS ARE CRUSHED AND BOILED
WITH IT; WHEN WELL COOKED, ADD PLENTY OF OIL. NOW CUT GREEN HERBS, LEEKS,
CORIANDER, DILL, FENNEL, BEETS, MALLOWS, CABBAGE STRUNKS, ALL SOFT AND GREEN
AND FINELY CUT, AND PUT IN A POT. THE CABBAGE COOK [separately. Also] CRUSH
FENNEL SEED, ORIGANY, SYLPHIUM AND LOVAGE, AND WHEN CRUSHED, ADD BROTH TO
TASTE, POUR THIS OVER THE PORRIDGE, STIR IT TOGETHER AND USE SOME FINELY
CHOPPED CABBAGE STEMS TO SPRINKLE ON TOP [2].

From Apicius
-- 
Ian of Oertha

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 17:27:05 +0100 (BST)
From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] what's a tisana?

I think the modern tisane came by its name via barley water, which was a development from thin barley gruel. I would not be surprised if by Apicius' time (whenever that exactly was) the word still meant a porridge-like barley dish. Anthimus' tisane certainly still sounds like it's fairly substantial, if sort of liquid. 

Giano

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 12:59:54 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] what's a tisana?

The Latin "tisana" derives from the Greek "ptissein" meaning "to crush." 
Somewhere between Old French and Middle English, it becomes "ptisane," 
meaning a medical infusion (of which barley water is one such infusion), and 
"tisane," referring to "peeled barley" or "barley water."  Apicius is in 
Latin from no later than the 5th Century.  Old French dates from the 9th 
Century.  The Apician reference is obviously from the earlier Latin usage.

Bear

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:28:58 +0100 (BST)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] what's a tisana?

The translation you quoted is not up to date it seems to me. (Where from did you 
get it?)

If you look at the Milham edition, the beginning says: "infundis cicer, 
lenticulam, pisa". What has to be soaked are chickpeas, lentils and peas ...

The word "taricha" is suspect ... Look at Milham's apparatus to page 34, line 
17.

Flower/Rosenbaum translate: "Barley soup"; Maier translates "Getreidegr?tze", 
"Gerstengr?tze".

E.

[173] ANOTHER TISANA *TISANA TARICHA *[1] >> >> THE CEREAL [2] IS SOAKED; 
CHICKPEAS, LENTILS AND PEAS ARE CRUSHED AND >> BOILED >> WITH IT; WHEN WELL 
COOKED, ADD PLENTY OF OIL. NOW CUT GREEN HERBS, LEEKS, >> CORIANDER, DILL, 
FENNEL, BEETS, MALLOWS, CABBAGE STRUNKS, ALL SOFT AND >> GREEN >> AND FINELY 
CUT, AND PUT IN A POT. THE CABBAGE COOK [separately. Also] >> CRUSH >> FENNEL 
SEED, ORIGANY, SYLPHIUM AND LOVAGE, AND WHEN CRUSHED, ADD BROTH TO >> TASTE, 
POUR THIS OVER THE PORRIDGE, STIR IT TOGETHER AND USE SOME FINELY >> CHOPPED 
CABBAGE STEMS TO SPRINKLE ON TOP [2]. >> From >> Apicius 

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 17:28:47 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] what's a tisana?

<<< Okay, then the cereal being used is, what, here?  If this is pre- the time
period where tisana refers to barley.....? >>>

If cereal is actually called for, it is likely either barley or wheat, the 
preferred grains of Rome.  Since you are using the Vehling translation, you 
don't have the original text and my copy of the F&R translation has gone 
walkabout.  Given the Latin definitions I have, I would say the name of the 
dish is related to the crushing rather than to the cereal used.

Bear

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:13:32 -0700
From: Ian Kusz <sprucebranch at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] what's a tisana?

Both the translation and the number are from off of Gutenberg.

Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 12:34:21 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: SCA-Cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Ottoman Bread Porridge

I have mentioned that quite a few Ottoman recipes are rather bland. Here's one, from among Shirvani's additions:

[107 recto]
Ekmek ashi - Bread Porridge
The manner of making it: Put some water in a pot, drop into it a little butter, after that bring it to a boil, drop into the pot some thinly ??sliced bread with the crust left on, when it is nearly cooked add some eggs, mix with a spoon, add a little pepper, remove from heat, eat.

Probably another way to use bread that isn't absolutely fresh.

Ashi isn't exactly porridge, but i couldn't think of a better word. Persians cooked in SCA-period, and still cook Ash, which is a very thick soup-like dish, made with starchy things like grains, chickpeas, black-eye beans, lentils, and/or noodles. Shirvani, as his names makes clear, was from the city of Shirvan, which is now in Azerbaijan. During SCA-period, the region was captured back and forth by the Persian and the Ottoman, so it is pretty certain there is Persian influence on Shrivani's recipes.

Just a side note, in the Palace there were two "formal" meals a day, one after morning prayer and one before sundown. The morning meal was the biggest and often quite substantial. The evening meal was smaller and often consisted of the same dishes over and over for weeks on end - as documented for some Sultans, or even years - as for the company of pages who had roast chicken and rice EVERY night, the only variation being seasonal soup.

This porridge might have been part of the morning meal, along with rice, several dishes that included meat, and some sides dishes made with seasonal greens or vegetables.

Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)

From Facebook:
David Friedman November 5 at 2:58pm ·

I'm wondering if perhaps I should stop thinking of it as an alternative to sekanjabin for a convenient period drink and start thinking of it as a period equivalent to quick oatmeal, useful for breakfast at Pennsic. More experimentation called for.

David Friedman 11/6/13 at 2:42am

I tried sawiq with hot water, using enough to make something like a porridge. With a little honey and cinnamon it's quite tasty. I now have a period equivalent to instant oatmeal for breakfasts at Pennsic.

David Friedman 
11/6/13 at 12:57pm

I don't know how well it would work with other grains, including oats. I gather that sawiq was originally made from barley, later from wheat, and I plan to try a barley version sometime soon. Perhaps I should try an oat version as well.

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris	porridges-msg	Page  of