Title: caviar-msg
Subject: Medieval caviar and fish eggs. Recipes.
Author: Edited by Mark S. Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: caviar, medieval, sturgeon, fish eggs, roe, recipe

caviar-msg - 11/22/18

Medieval caviar and fish eggs. Recipes.

NOTE: See also the files: fish-msg, eggs-msg, fish-pies-msg, salmon-msg, stockfish-msg, frogs-msg, blood-dishes-msg, organ-meats-msg, Rus-Vik-daybd-art, fd-Russia-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 21:42:41 -0600
From: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] medieval caviar
To: SCA-Cooks maillist SCA-Cooks <SCA-Cooks at Ansteorra.org>

Gunthar mentioned:
<<< And then there was Sir Guy's vigil at Pennsic where I found out about
it that afternoon and the Bellatrix clan shoved a couple hundred dollars
in my hand and told me to prepare something. That was interesting
but I did manage to make a rather nice, if not period, buffet. My favorite
part of that was being told by one of my runners he'd been mauled by
a bunch of dukes who stole his full platter of caviar canapes and pushed
him back towards the prep tent telling him to get more. Since when do
big dumb stickjocks like caviar!? >>>

While that particular caviar dish may or may not have been period, it
is my understanding that caviar, or other fish roe, was likely to
have been eaten in period. We think of sturgeon being primarily a
Russian or southwest Asia fish today, but I seem to remember comments
that sturgeon ran in many of the rivers of western Europe during the
Middle Ages.

Okay, I just did a search on the Florilegium. A lot more on sturgeon
than on caviar. However, both do show up in this file:
Romanian-ckbk-art (112K)  1/25/04    "A Translation of a 17th Century
Romanian Cookbook" by Lord Petru cel paros Voda.

So does anyone have any other mentions or period recipes of caviar?

Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
     Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas

Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 22:09:58 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval caviar
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> So does anyone have any other mentions or period recipes of caviar?
> Stefan

Caviar appears in Platina.  I don't have my copy handy to post details, but
I was considering working with the recipe as a surprise for Baroness
Gwyneth.

Bear

Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 23:27:00 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval caviar
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Mar 2, 2007, at 10:42 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
> So does anyone have any other mentions or period recipes of caviar?

There's a rather critical poem from period (I think) which mentions
"cavialle", which I gather to be more like modern botargo, a pressed,
dried roe (generally today it would be mullet or cod, sometimes carp,
but since caviar specifically refers to sturgeon, I assume that's
what they meant then) I _think_ it's Italian, but translated into
English early on, but the gist of it is that whoever eats caviar had
better like sh*t, dirt and flies. You can still get pressed caviar
that is a pretty similar product; the lightly salted stuff you can
get now really only becomes the worldwide default form in the era of
refrigeration and high-speed food transport.

I don't remember the details offhand, but do have this secondhand
memory of the reference. Anybody else remember this?

Adamantius

Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 15:44:22 -0800
From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval caviar
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Both caviar and boutarge/botargo (salted dried fish roe) are
mentioned among the food served to the Ottoman sultan who conquered
Constantinopolis in 1453, Mehmed II. However, the Ottomans were not
fond of fish or any other kind of seafood, so it rather disappears
from the careful registers of what was eaten in the Topkapi Serai. It
is only in menus of Mehmed II that meals featuring fish and seafood
appear in the Topkapi within SCA period, so i would assume that he
was eating what Byzantine rulers before him had eaten.

Nor was it featured in the "soup kitchens" of the imaret established
by sultans, sultanas, emirs, viziers, etc.

It is likely, however, that it was eaten by other people in the
Ottoman Empire outside the palace.
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 19:49:36 -0300
From: Suey <lordhunt at gmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks]  medieval caviar
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Stefan li Rous wrote:
> So does anyone have any other mentions or period recipes of caviar?

In Spain roe and mullet eggs were used as caviar as per text prior to
16th century. In Al-Andalus they were liked and prepared in many ways
such as boiled, fried or scalded in vinegar or oil without water.
Avenzoar found them more noxious than the fish itself as they were more
humid and colder. Christians did not consider fish eggs to be fish but
eggs and, therefore, consumption was not prohibited on fast days.

Susan

Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 21:25:23 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval caviar
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

A couple of translations from Martino:

How to Make Lenten Pottage

Take some good caviar, making sure it is not rancid, and remove the outside
part; the crush well in a mortar, and when it has been well crushed, to make
eight servings, take half of the caviar and then crush it in a mortar with
twenty-five almonds that have been well blanched and an ounce of bread
white; thin with a little cool water and pass through a stamine, adding more
water with the almond milk so there will be enough for eight servings.  Then
place over a flame and add a bit of good oil and some herbs, that is to say,
marjoram, mint and parsley that have been finely chopped.  Then bring to a
boil with milk.  Then add the caviar to the milk after first thinning it
with a bit of the milk in the mortar.  Then put all these things in the pot
and give it a stir with a spoon.  Add a bit of saffron and pepper; and once
you have stirred it, remove.  Then take some and serve in bowls, topped with
sweet spices.  Similarly, you can make this with pike roe, but it must be
well crushed and passed through a stamine.  You can also make it with
sturgeon roe.

How to Prepare Sturgeon Roe Caviar and Cook It As Well

Take some bread slices and toast until slightly browned, and slice the
caviar the same size as the bread slices, but a little thinner, and lay them
on top of the bread;  place the bread slices on the tip of a knife or a fork
suited to this purpose and expose to the air around the flame until the
caviar hardens like a slightly browned crust.  Likewise, you can prepare it
in any other way by first washing in lukewarm water so that it is not so
salty; take some good, small herbs that have been finely chopped, grated
bread white with a bit of finely chopped and gently cooked onion, and a bit
of pepper, to which you add a cup of water; mix all these things together
with the caviar, and shape into one or more fritters, and fry as you  
would with eggs.

To make the caviar, take some sturgeon roe, during the season and period
when sturgeon are best, remove from the roe all the nerves inside, and wash
with some good white vinegar or with good white wine.  Place on a table and
allow it to dry; then put it in a pot, adding salt to taste; stir well with
your hands, but carefully so as to crush as little as possible.  And once
this has been done, take a white sack made of rather loose canvas, and toss
in the caviar for a day and a night so that the water it purges will be
strained out.  Once this has been done, put the caviar back in a pot, well
pressed and thick, in other words by pressing it down with your hands.
Three or four small holes at the bottom of the pot will allow moisture to
escape in case the caviar was not properly strained.  Keep the pot well
covered and you can eat the caviar as you wish.

(As presented in Ballerini, Luigi, editor, Parzen, Jeremy, translator, The
Art of Cooking:  The First Modern Cookery Book, Composed by the Eminent
Maestro Martino of Como...; University of California Press, 2005.)

Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2007 23:11:35 -0500
From: "Nick Sasso" <grizly at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval caviar
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

-----Original Message-----
< < < < A couple of translations from Martino:

How to Make Lenten Pottage

Take some good caviar, making sure it is not rancid, and remove the outside
part; the crush well in a mortar, and when it has been well crushed, to make
eight servings, take half of the caviar and then crush it in a mortar with
twenty-five almonds that have been well blanched and an ounce of bread
white; < < < SNIP > > >

How to Prepare Sturgeon Roe Caviar and Cook It As Well
< < < STIP > > >
To make the caviar, take some sturgeon roe, during the season and period
when sturgeon are best, remove from the roe all the nerves inside, and wash
with some good white vinegar or with good white wine.  Place on a table and
allow it to dry; then put it in a pot, adding salt to taste; stir well with
your hands, but carefully so as to crush as little as possible.  And once
this has been done, take a white sack made of rather loose canvas, and toss
in the caviar for a day and a night so that the water it purges will be
strained out.  Once this has been done, put the caviar back in a pot, well
pressed and thick, in other words by pressing it down with your hands.
Three or four small holes at the bottom of the pot will allow moisture to
escape in case the caviar was not properly strained.  Keep the pot well
covered and you can eat the caviar as you wish. > > > > >

I started thinking about terminology in our period and our current times, as
well as in between.  How are people thinking about language drift in terms
of caviar as the little eggs themselves versus the entire 'egg sack' of a
fish?  I am finding it hard to grasp removing and outside part of hundreds
of little dots of coor to make a dish.  Same with the removal of nerves from
them.

Am I the last one to the party in figuring this out?  I checked wikipedia
and found a reference to several Mediterranean nations drying and curing the
roe pouch of various fish, then sliced and used like sardines.  Are we
possibly looking at two or more different products being translated into
English as "caviar" or "roe".  Just checking because I've deleted the
previous messages in this thread.  I automatically think little fishy egg
granuales . . . while the original could refer to the little tiny  
eggs, the egg pouch or the entire thing together.

niccolo difrancesco
(I know the egg pouch has a 'real' name)

Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 07:09:03 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval caviar
To: grizly at mindspring.com, Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Mar 4, 2007, at 11:11 PM, Nick Sasso wrote:

> I automatically think little fishy egg
> granuales . . . while the original could refer to the little tiny
> eggs, the egg pouch or the entire thing together.

Think of the drift as similar to "ham" meaning pink or reddish, salty/
smoked pigmeat, while once it could be any animal that has thighs,
fresh or cured.

The "original" for caviar is simply a sturgeon, in both Russian and
Turkish, AFAIK, and as with things like shad, the "hard roe" of the
female became more popular than the fish itself, to the point where
the popular image of the part becomes the image of the whole. Like
scallops in the US, where we tend to see them in the shell very
infrequently in markets, and forget that it's not just a lovely white
adductor muscle coming full circle as the veal scalloppine of the
sea?  I don't know if there's any market for the soft roe or milt of
the male sturgeon; there is for shad, but I've never heard of it for
sturgeon. Either way, there seems to have been some equivocation
early on.

Apparently whole roes of the female sturgeon were marketed as caviar
at some point; they still are today, in the form of pressed caviar,
which isn't as dry and hard as botargo, from what I've seen, but a
similar concept.

Adamantius

Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 08:02:46 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] medieval caviar
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

There are books on the topic---
Caviar. The Strange History and Uncertain Future of the World's
Most Coveted Delicacy by Inga Saffron. 2002
This one does cover the history of caviar.
This one is available as a used copy for less than $1.00
Also The World of Caviar* *and
The Philosopher Fish: Sturgeon, Caviar, And the Geography of Desire
can be found online at really good prices.

Johnnae

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 22:50:52 -0300
From: Susan Lord <lordhunt at gmail.com>
To: "sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Terry Decker's Translaton of "Lenten Pottage" of
	Caviar

I have just cooked this, taken photos and had dinner, well not dinner, a banquet on this pottage! 

Terry translated it from Martino?s 16th century recipes. It was posted to SCA-Cooks "Medieval Caviar" dated 4 March 2007 and it is the most impressive dish I have published in my Medieval Spanish Chef blog. I totally recommend that you serve it to woo anyone from a very special friend to your boss! It is that delicious!  I will be publishing my version of making this plus Decker's translation on May 1 but in the meantime here again is Decker's translation. Bon appetite!

HOW TO MAKE LENTEN POTTAGE
2 jars caviar
25 almonds
1 oz White bread
olive oil
marjoram
mint
parsley
saffron
pepper

Take some good caviar, making sure it is not rancid, and remove the outside
part; the crush well in a mortar, and when it has been well crushed, to make
eight servings, take half of the caviar and then crush it in a mortar with
twenty-five almonds that have been well blanched and an ounce of bread
white; thin with a little cool water and pass through a stamine, adding more
water with the almond milk so there will be enough for eight servings.  Then
place over a flame and add a bit of good oil and some herbs, that is to say,
marjoram, mint and parsley that have been finely chopped. Then bring to a
boil with milk.  Then add the caviar to the milk after first thinning it
with a bit of the milk in the mortar.  Then put all these things in the pot
and give it a stir with a spoon.  Add a bit of saffron and pepper; and once
you have stirred it, remove.  Then take some and serve in bowls, topped with
sweet spices.  Similarly, you can make this with pike roe, but it must be
well crushed and passed through a stamine.  You can also make it with
sturgeon roe. 

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 22:19:26 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Terry Decker's Translaton of "Lenten Pottage"
	of	Caviar

It's not my translation.  It's from The Art of Cooking:  the First Modern 
Cookery Book.  I cited the source at the bottom of the post.

Bear

<<< I have just cooked this, taken photos and had dinner, well not dinner, a 
banquet on this pottage!
Terry translated it from Martino?s 16th century recipes. It was posted to 
SCA-Cooks ?Medieval Caviar? dated 4 March 2007 and it is the most impressive 
dish I have published in my Medieval Spanish Chef blog. I totally recommend 
that you serve it to woo anyone from a very special friend to your boss! It 
is that delicious!  I will be publishing my version of making this plus 
Decker?s translation on May 1 but in the meantime here again is Decker?s 
translation. Bon appetite! >>>

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 16:00:18 -0400
From: Elise Fleming <alyskatharine at gmail.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Milt or Soft Roe

From: Susan Lord <lordhunt at gmail.com>
<<< Is milt, soft roe, male genitalia of fish containing sperm used as 
food available today? It was sold fresh in 15 C. and consumed as a 
delicacy. This is the first I have heard about it. >>>

Milt is not the male genitalia of fish. It is the seminal fluid FROM the 
genitalia, not the genitalia itself. The fluid contains the sperm.

One source for purchasing seems to be 
http://www.weiku.com/Agriculture/buy-Salmon-Milt.html . I don't know if 
this would be considered food-edible.

Alys K.

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 16:13:31 -0400
From: Elise Fleming <alyskatharine at gmail.com>
To: sca-cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] More on Milt as Food

Greetings! Here's one web site that shows the sacs of milt and mentions 
various ways of preparing them:
http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2009/12/steamed-fried-cod-milt-kiku-shirako-tachi-recipes.html

Another one mentions that it is actually the male genitalia that is 
prepared. The genitalia contain the milt, but milt is something separate.
http://www.funfactz.com/food-and-drink-facts/milt-fish-sperm-3413.html

I did not look on this web page to see the actual recipes: 
http://chestofbooks.com/food/recipes/American-Woman-Cook-Book/Fish-Roe-And-Milt-Salmon-Puffs.html#.VetK95clm5I

Another: http://eng.icefish.ru/pages/moloki/

Some recipes: http://www.meatsandsausages.com/fish/roe

You might try searching for some of the Japanese names for milt in an 
earlier post. "Shirako" is one, but is also a company's name for other 
products.

Alys K.

Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 21:08:54 +0000 (UTC)
From: Donna Green <donnaegreen at yahoo.com>
To: "sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Milt or soft roe

<<< Is milt, soft roe, male genitalia of fish containing sperm used as food available today? It was sold fresh in 15 C. and consumed as a delicacy >>>

I have cured milt, using the same method for making botarga (cured fish eggs). During the herring run here in San Francisco Bay, I just get several whole herring. You can't tell the males from the females until you cut them open to find eggs or milt. Since the curing process is the same, it doesn't really matter.

What is the reference you have for the fresh milt being sold in the 15th c?

Juana Isabella
West

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 00:26:16 -0500
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Milt or soft roe

Here are Rumpolt recipes for milt.

Karpffen 6.  Boiled carp milt (Karpffen Milch)/ and pousen turtelet made 
from it.  Take the milt/ set it on (the fire) in the water/ and salt/ 
let it simmer completely to the place (until completely done)/ cool it 
nicely cleaned off.  Take a grated weck bread to it/ and several egg 
yolks/ and see/ that you do not over salt it.  Then take butter in a 
tart pan/ and fry it cleanly.  Then it is good and well tasting.

-- Modernly "Fischmilch" is the milt or soft roe.  Male testes and semen.

-- "Turtelet" is a type of omelet or fritata.  Pousen could be Pouesen 
or pavis, but that doesn't fit. A tart pan has a cover so heat comes 
from top and bottom.

I speculate that they had pond raised carp that came alive or very fresh 
to the kitchen, since recipes for other fish sometimes call for carp blood.

Suppen 18. Take the milt from a carp/ simmer it with salt and water/ 
clean out it cleanly/ and take over it pea broth/ parsley root/ whole 
and ground pepper also unclarified butter and salt/ let simmer together/ 
so it becomes good and well tasting. And when you will dress it/ then 
arrange on toasted sliced bread. Thus one cooks and serves soup of carp 
milt.

Suppen 33. Take herring and cut it from each other/ throw them into hot 
Butter and roast rapidly/ strain though with good pea broth/ pepper and 
yellow/ put salt and butter into it and let simmer together/ put into it 
the milt whole from the herring and let made simmer. Also put into in 
green herbs/ which are chopped small/ in this way it is good and well 
tasting. And one calls it Herring soup.

Ranvaig

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 13:18:03 +0200
From: Susan Lord <lordhunt at gmail.com>
To: "sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Milt or soft roe

Many thanks for all your contributions to clarify this for me. I feel much better about my description thanks to your corrections and additions.

Someone asked "what is my source?" It is Mar?a Teresa Castro Martinez, La alimentation en las cornicas castellanas bajomedievales. I have page 327 listed. I looked it up to confirm this and provide any background that might have been cut when pinning the word with which I am not familiar. At this point, I found that my file reviewing the book has disappeared from my word files. Secondly, in the entire section on fish, pp 322-327, Castro only talks about fish caught and consumed. She does not go into details concerning harvesting caviar, milt or roe.

From the fb "Medieval & Renaissance Cooking and Recipes" group:

Pamela N. Burnham
6/27/17
Hi, does anyone know of any resources or information about the history of caviar?

Nancy Kiel 
History no, but someone sent a barrel of it to someone (during the Elizabethan period) and the recipient said that soap would have been more useful and tasted better.

Joan Kew H
annele Klemettila in *The Medieval Kitchen* refers to sturgeon roe being used for caviar (p. 82) Pike roe was used to stuff eggs during Lent, but I'm not sure of the exact dates. http://www.coquinaria.nl/english/recipes/12.2histrecipe.html

Linda Scott 
I found this - cannot speak to the accuracy: 
http://www.sterlingcaviar.com/experience-caviar/history-of-caviar.html

History of Caviar - Sterling Caviar
History of Caviar Sturgeon have been around for over 250 million years and are found only in the Northern…
STERLINGCAVIAR.COM

Glenn Gorsuch 
Beluga caviar was frequently served in a Hungarian castle in 1603. I'm hoping to have recipes dating to the 1500's Hungary in the next month or so.

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris	caviar-msg	Page  of