seafood-msg

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seafood-msg – 2/10/14

Medieval non-fish seafood. Recipes. Oysters. Calamari, Squid, Cuttlefish,

Crawfish, Lobsters.

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Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:36:27 -0400 (EDT)

From: Uduido at aol.com

Subject: SC - Spondylis-finished-LONG

I am not posting Vehling's translation of 'Isicia ex Spondylis' since I have

already done so but here is the 'perfected' redaction. I hope you enjoy. Any

comments either to the list or privately would be most welcome.

A DISH OF SCALLOPS

"Isicia Ex Spondylis'

A redaction by L. J. Spencer, Jr., copyright 09-14-97.

Notes: In the following recipe I finally decided on a coarser wheat product

than the original experimental recipe used after reading several posts from

Adamantius and others on the SCA-Cooks list. If you do not use Caul or

another similar type of wrapping be sure to allow the batter to fry until it

is firm on one side as it is extremely tender and difficult to turn it if

you try to do so to soon. The color should be 'well-browned'. Of course, if

you use the caul as intended in the original you will not have this problem.

The finished product looks very similar to small oblong pouches nice and

brown with a crispy outside covering. The interior is moist and sweet very

much like the sweetness of oysters. If you do not use the caul the product

looks amazingly like fried oysters and could, with little imagination be

used as an illusion food to represent that product. I did not particularly

care for the base fish sauce but others may find it quite tasty. I garnished

it with fronds of reconstituted dry seeweed.

1 lb. scallops, lightly sauted in olive oil

COOKED WHEAT

- ---------------------------

1 cp. Wheatena

2 1/2 cps water

3/4 tsp. salt

3 lg. eggs

3/8 tsp. freshly ground black pepper

Caul

Rish fish stock

Olive oil for frying

Minced cooked scallops very fine.

In a non-stick saucepan, combine Wheatena, water, andd salt. Bring to a boil.

Reduce heat to medium low and cook until very thick, stirring to prevent

burning. (About 5-6 mins.) When it starts sticking to bottom immediately

remove from heat. Cool.

Combine wheat mixture, scallops, eggs and pepper thorouhly. Wrap a heaping

tblspful in a piece of caul. Repeat until all of the mixture is used. (Note:

If you are not using caul elliminate this step).

Heat olive oil in a frying pan. Lay croquettes in fat seam side ddown. Brown

and turn. Repeat until all are cooked. (IMPORTANT: If you are NOT using a

wrapping then drop by lg. tbspnfuls into hot oil). Drain on absorbent paper

or cloth.

To serve: place a couple of tblsps. of fish stock on plate and put 3

croquettes in center. These are also good without sauce and are very

flavorful at room temperature.

Servings: 12 (36 croquettes>3 per serving)

Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:43:55 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Help-Oysters

LrdRas at aol.com wrote:

> Hi, list! :-) I seldom ask for advise but.....WHAT A DEAL! :-) Giant Markets

> are selling Select oysters and Standard for $3.99 a pint. A $5.00 discount!

> :-0 I LOVE oysters! Bought 2 pints to start. <chagrin>

> Any one have PERIOD recipes for oysters? Need original recipes. If they are

> in a Romance language I do not need a translation. :-). Any help would be

> much appreciated. The sooner the better. At 1 or 2 pints a day for the

> remainder of the sale, I figure that I have 3 days to play with oyster

> recipes. :-)

From Diversa Cibaria, Book I of the ever-faithful "Curye On Inglysch":

"62 To maken hoistreye. Nim hostrees & mak am zeo*en, & so**en do am out

of *e bro*; & wyte *e bro*. & so**en heuw am smale on an bord, & braye

heom in an morter, & so**en do am in *e bro* & do *erto milke of

alemauns, & lie hit wi* amydon. & let frien oygnons & mynsen heom by am

seoluen in oyle; & 3ef *ou nast none oyle, let seo*en heom in god milke

of alemaundes. & do *erto a poudre of gode spices, and colore hit wy*

saffroun."

There's a similar recipe in Taillevent, I believe, except without the

almond milk, and with toast crumbs, pea puree or water, and vinegar

added to the formula. Actually sounds better, to me, at least.

Also, you can check Apicius, which has a couple of oyster recipes, and

several oyster sauce recipes. Probably you'd be best off using the

recipes that call for the oysters to be cooked. Most of what the Romans

ate would likely have been frshly shucked, on the half shell, but the

guidelines for eating those only when alive get a little fuzzy where

shucked, packaged oysters are concerned.

Had some lovely fried oysters in real sweet-and-sour sauce in the

Chinatown Saturday. Real sweet-and-sour sauce being heavy on the mixed

ginger pickle, and easy on the weird flourescent orange baby-aspirin

flavoring that often is associated with this sauce.

Adamantius

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 00:06:08 +0000

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Help-Oysters

And it came to pass on 2 Dec 97, that LrdRas at aol.com wrote:

> Any one have PERIOD recipes for oysters? Need original recipes. If

> they are in a Romance language I do not need a translation. :-).

Here is a recipe from the "Libro de Guisados" (1529). It appears to

be a list of cooking suggestions, rather than one single recipe:

COMO SE GUISAN LAS OSTIAS

Las ostias se comen fritas con aceite y su pimienta y azafran y sus

especias y zumo de naranja; y echadas en su escabeche con

sus hojas de laurel. Y se comen asadas con su pimienta. Y se comen

cocidas en su agua; y aceite, y especias sofreidos primero con su

cebolla and aceite en una sarten o la cebolla sola sofreida en la

sarten; y echada en la olla con su sabor de vinagre; y algunas buenas

yerbas. Y se pueden guisar en cazuela con su agua y aceite y

especias y buenas yerbas con cebolla sofreida en su sarten; y echada

dentro, y su saborcico de vinagre.

And a quick translation for those who are not familiar with Spanish:

HOW OYSTERS ARE COOKED

Oysters are eated fried with oil and your pepper and saffron and

your spices and orange juice; and cast into your escabeche [a pickled

dish] with your laurel leaves. And they are eaten fried with

your pepper. And they are eaten cooked in your water; and oil, and

spices gently fried first with your onion and oil in a frying-pan or

the onion gently fried alone in the frying pan; and cast in the pot

with your taste of vinegar; and some good herbs. And they can be

cooked in a cazuela [casserole dish] with your water and oil and

spices and good herbs with onion gently fried in your frying-pan; and

cast within, and your little taste of vinegar.

Hope this helps.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba

Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

mka Robin Carroll-Mann *** harper at idt.net

Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:08:37 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Odd question

> It recently (last night) came up in conversation whether some form of

> calamari is period. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

> Bogdan

Giacosa in A Taste of Ancient Rome interprets Esicia de lolligine (Apicius

43) as squid patties. Vehling in his translation of Apicius refers to the

dish as Apicius 42 and uses cuttlefish. So it's highly probable that squid

was prepared in Antiquity and would have been served in period, at least

along the Italian coast.

Looking at a couple of modern Italian cook books, the terms cuttlefish and

squid are used interchangeably, although I seem to remember them as two

different critters.

Bear

Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 19:42:17 EST

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: SC - Calamari, squid, cuttlefish

TerryD at Health.State.OK.US writes:

<< Looking at a couple of modern Italian cook books, the terms cuttlefish and

squid are used interchangeably, although I seem to remember them as two

different critters. >>

Squid has longer tentacles and a paper thin clear internal shell. It can grow

to gargantuan proportions although commercial squid are relatively small.

Cuttlefish have short tentacles and contain an inner shell that is very hard

and calcified (e.g. see the cuttle bones at the pet shop). To all intent and

purposes , they are interchangable in the majority of recipes, SFAIK.

Finding cuttlefish in American markets is almost next to impossible.

Ras

Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 22:52:55 +0000

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Odd question

And it came to pass on 7 Feb 98, that jeffrey s heilveil wrote:

> It recently (last night) came up in conversation whether some form

> of calamari is period. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

> Bogdan

In (what else?) the 1529 "Libro de Guisados", there is a recipe which

includes squid. Herewith a recipe which I have never redacted (and

don't intend to, 'cause I hate squid).

POTAJE DE CALAMARES Y JIBIAS

Pottage of Squid and Cuttlefish

The squid and cuttlefish must be well washed and clean, and after

gently frying them, but not entirely, and when they are almost half

cooked, take them out of the frying-pan and put them into a pot; and

then put with them blanched almonds and raisins and pine nuts; and

then take a few toasted almonds and pound them* and strain them**

with a little vinegar watered down with fish broth if you have it; if

not cast in a litle water so that it will not be too strong; and when

the raisins and the almonds have been slightly fried with the squid

and cuttlefish, take them and finish frying them; then cut them into

pieces and when this is done prepare dishes.

* In most recipes in the "Libro de Guisados" the instruction to

"pound" something specifies that it is to be done in a mortar.

** Literally "pass them", which in most other recipes is

followed by a phrase like "through a strainer" or "through a

cloth".

Hope this helps.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba

Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

mka Robin Carroll-Mann *** harper at idt.net

Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 23:24:46 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Calamari, squid, cuttlefish

> Squid has longer tentacles and a paper thin clear internal shell. It can grow

> to gargantuan proportions although commercial squid are relatively small.

> Cuttlefish have short tentacles and contain an inner shell that is very hard

> and calcified (e.g. see the cuttle bones at the pet shop). To all intent and

> purposes , they are interchangable in the majority of recipes, SFAIK. Finding

> cuttlefish in American markets is almost next to impossible.

> Ras

I think there's some kinda taxonomy action going on. Yes, the critters

that end up as fried calamari, etc., are different animals from

cuttlefish, but all cuttlefish are squid, IIRC, but not all squid are

cuttlefish. Cuttlefish also live in somewhat different environments

(depth, etc.) from your average little calamari squid, and swim with

their tentacles facing forward, using tail fins, rather than backward

with waterjet propulsion, as with loliga squid.

Taillevent includes a recipe for cuttlefish (# 143) in his section on

flat sea fish, which, oddly enough, also includes oysters, mussels, and

lobster. The dish is called seiche, IIRC, which is, I assume, simply

what the 14th-century Frenchman called cuttlefish. The fish is skinned

and broken up into pieces, which I gather means either cut with a knife,

or dismembered / torn apart by the tentacles. The pieces are fried in a

dry, ungreased frying pan without water, but with a generous coating of

salt in the pan (anyone who's pan-broiled a steak knows what that's all

about, I suspect). They're parcooked, i.e. until "done", stirred

frequently to prevent sticking and burning. The pieces are then wiped

dry, and presumably de-salted somewhat, on a cloth, coated with flour

(so far the only reference I've seen to coating fish before frying in

the entire French-English medieval recipe corpus) and fried in oil, with

onions added halfway through the frying of the cuttlefish, to keep them

from burning. The cuttlefish pieces and the onions slices, or whatever

form they take, are presumably drained from the oil and served with a

white garlic sauce made with vinegar.

It actually sounds pretty good, but then I am a confirmed calamari and

cuttlefish fiend. So, oddly enough, is my six-year-old son. I can

occasionally get barbecued cuttlefish in the Chinese grocery, hanging up

alongside the ducks, the spare ribs, etc. I've also seen them fresh /

raw in the same markets, and, now that I think about it, have a dried

one in my fridge, which involves considerable soaking in baking soda and

water to render palatable, not unlike the legendary lutefisk.

Which reminds me: last night I encountered, in the Korean grocery just a

few blocks from my home, dried, split, Alaskan pollack. They appeared to

have been split, threaded on stocks, and hung up in a cold wind. Apart

from being rather small, maybe ten inches long, they looked like they

would make a decent lutefisk fish. They seemed, at first glance, rather

expensive ($4.89 for maybe 12 ounces) but then I understand such fish

are only about 1/4 of their original weight when dried, which would mean

more like $1.63 per pound, soaked. I'll probably need to experiment with

both a modern lutefisk recipe and some period stockfih recipes... .

Adamantius

Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:40:09 -0500

From: dangilsp at intrepid.net (Dan Gillespie)

Subject: SC - calamari question

Hello from West Virginia:

Sorry to be so slow in answering the question concerning the use of

calamari in period. I don't have a direct answer....but there is a recipe

in the 1607 Libro de Cozina which calls for cuttlefish. I am thinking of

using calamari to fudge on this one. For those who may not know, cuttlefish

is a reltive of squid & octopi. Usually the only part you see of it is the

cuttlefish bone in many bird cages. I'll post the recipe later if anyone is

interested (being deliberately a spoon tease here).

Take care, Antoine

Dan Gillespie

dangilsp at intrepid.net

Dan_Gillespie at usgs.gov

Martinsburg, West Virginia, USA

Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:37:11 -0500

From: dangilsp at intrepid.net (Dan Gillespie)

Subject: SC - cuttlefish recipes

Hello from Sylvan Glen:

Here's the cuttlefish recipes I promised from the 1607 Arte de

Cozina. If anyone tries any of these, please let me know how the redaction

comes out. Enjoy!

Antoine

Cap lxxj como se han de adereçar el pescado xibia.

Esta xibia es pescado como le(n)guados, y tiene el pescado muy bla(n)co, y

se haze ma(n)jar blanco del, y tiene mejor hebra que la gallina, y ta(n)

buen sabor, y se come cozido co(n) sal, vinagre, azeyte y pimie(n)ta, frito

co(n) mucha pimineta, y nara(n)ja y azeyte, porque es pescado fresco, y si

no lleva mucha pimie(n)ta y azeyte es muy dañoso; este pescado no se guarda

salado, ni seco, ha se de comer fresco, y se puede dar empanado con ajos, y

mucha especia, y azeyte es muy sabroso.

Chap 71 How to fix cuttlefish

This cuttlefish is a fish like the flounder, & has very white flesh & you

may make a blancmange from it, & it has a better grain/ fiber than the hen,

& it has a good flavor, & it is cooked with salt, vinegar, oil & pepper,

fried with a lot of pepper & orange & oil, because it is a fresh fish, & if

there is not put much pepper & oil it is very harmful; this fish is not kept

salted nor dried, it must be eaten fresh, & you may give it out breaded with

garlic & a lot of spices & oil, it is very tasty.

Dan Gillespie

dangilsp at intrepid.net

Dan_Gillespie at usgs.gov

Martinsburg, West Virginia, USA

Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:01:59 +0000

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>

Subject: Re: SC - cuttlefish & kids

"Libro de Guisados" Spanish, 1529

POTAGE OF SQUID AND CUTTLEFISH

Squid and cuttlefish should be very well washed and clean, and after

gently frying them, and not completely, and when they are almost half

cooked, take them out of the frying-pan, and put them in a pot; and

then take blanched almonds and raisins and pine nuts; and then take a

few toasted almonds and strain them with a little vinegar watered

down with fish broth if you have any; if not, cast in a little water

so that it will not be very strong; and when the raisins and the

almonds are a little fried with the squid or the cuttlefish, take

them and finish gently frying them; however they must be cut into

pieces, and when this is done prepare dishes.

I hope your lady finds this of interest.

Brighid (who hates squid and would probably hate cuttlefish, too)

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain of Tethba

Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

mka Robin Carroll-Mann *** harper at idt.net

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:14:13 +0000 (GMT)

From: Daria Anne Rakowski <dar3 at st-andrews.ac.uk>

Subject: SC - Squid-Charter info

A colleague of mine here has found a reference to serving cuttle-fish in a

charter dated around 1216. (I could be a bit off) It was in a monastery in

Portugal where the hostelier served what appears to be the little beasties

cooked in their own ink. The problem was that these were highly

undesirable as a food stuff (apparently) as the visiting abbott tried to

bribe his way out of eating it! There was a mention of it being smelly

too. Does anyone know if this methode of prep. would result in a fishy

smell or could they have been off? (I've never tried it)

Thanks, Coll

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:20:12 -0600

From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>

Subject: RE: SC - Squid-Charter info

> There was a mention of it being smelly

> too. Does anyone know if this methode of prep. would result in a fishy

> smell or could they have been off? (I've never tried it)

> Thanks, Coll

Squids use ammonia for buoyancy. If they are not properly cleaned, you can

still taste the ammonia (as I found in a Chinese restaurant one night). I

believe this is true of all cephalopods.

Bear

Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:03:41 EST

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Squid-Charter info

In a message dated 2/19/98 9:15:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, dar3 at st-

andrews.ac.uk writes:

<< It was in a monastery in

Portugal where the hosteler served what appears to be the little beasts

cooked in their own ink. The problem was that these were highly

undesirable as a food stuff (apparently) as the visiting abbott tried to

bribe his way out of eating it! There was a mention of it being smelly

too. Does anyone know if this method of prep. would result in a fishy

smell or could they have been off? (I've never tried it)

Thanks, Coll

Many recipes for both cuttlefish and squid call for the addition of their ink.

Since both creatures are sweet and succulent if fresh, I would suspect that

they were "slightly off" Personally I have never eaten either one where there

was any pronounced taste resembling fish. They are essentially shell-less

mollusks. Their natural flavor being more akin to scallops, oysters, mussels,

and what not. Definitely NOT fish like.

Ras

Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 22:43:59 -0700

From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>

Subject: Re: SC - do you have any ideas ?

From: Diamond <nordgate at worldnet.att.net>

> I will be doing a feast at the end of September and I need some ideas for

> scallops. nearly everything I have found has them cooked with ale. I would

> rather do something different.

> Arabella Silvana

> Arenal, Meridies

You could do them like Robert Mays shrimps, ie stewed gently! in orange

juice and white wine with nutmeg and pepper, and served with drawn butter

and more OJ. Be aware that Robert May does not suggest to do this with

scallops, only with shrimps.

Great care should be taken not to over cook, of course...

- --Anne-Marie, who had scallops for dinner last night. Yum!

Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 12:32:25 SAST-2

From: "Ian van Tets" <IVANTETS at botzoo.uct.ac.za>

Subject: SC - scallops and allergies

There's a recipe in Elisabeth Ayrton's The Cookery of England for

scallops as cooked by Elizabeth-commonly-known-as-Joan Cromwell, if

that's not too late period for you. I think it was basically baked

scallops covered with breadcrumbs and dotted with butter. FWIW, I

used this recipe at 12th Night for contrafacted scallops (saffron and

cheese-filled ravioli) in a fish course.

Cairistiona

Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 12:38:20 -0400

From: "Osburn-Day, Katherine" <katherine.osburn-day at lmco.com>

Subject: RE: SC - do you have any ideas ? (Scallops)

There is a scallop recipe in Le Menagier. I can look it up for you if

you're interested and can't find it.

Caterina

Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 17:14:11 -0400

From: Phil & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Crawfish Recipe Request

Cindy Renfrow wrote:

> There is also a brief mention of crayfish in Le Menagier de Paris (Power,

> p. 272):

> "Crayfish cooked in water and wine and eaten with vinegar."

There's also a recipe for a meat tile of poultry or veal in Le Menagier, fried

meat braised in, or sauced with, I forget which offhand, a crayfish-flavored

almond-milk brewet, and garnished with the meat from the crayfish tails.

The above nota (re poaching and eating with vinegar) is more or less straight

from Taillevent. There's also a recipe for sauteed, stuffed crayfish in

Chiquart's Du Fait de Cuisine, involving taking the neat out of boiled

crayfish, chopping it with parsley and, I think, butter and vinegar, stuffing

it back into the shells and frying, stuffed side down, for a few minutes

before serving.

Adamantius

Østgardr, East

Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:49:01 -0400

From: Phil & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: SC - Two crayfish recipes

In response to a gentle's request for crayfish recipes, I mentioned and

described two from period French sources. Unfortunately, this is looking like

a stressful week and my I need my memory for other things, and, to be blunt,

mucked up the descriptions pretty badly.

Here they are again, in more or less their original form, albeit translated:

"A Tile of Meat (Tuile de Char). Take cooked crayfish and remove the flesh

from the tails; and the rest, to wit tails and carcase, must be brayed for a

very long time; and afterwardstake unpeeled almonds, and let them be shelled

and washed in hot water like peas, and let them be brayed with the shell in

what is abovesaid and with them bray breadcrumbs browned on the grill. Now you

should have capons, chickens and pullets broken all raw into quarters, or veal

broken into gobbets, and cooked, and with their sewe wherein they be cooking

you should moisten and dilute what you have brayed and thrn pass it through a

strainer; then bray the dregs left [in the strainer] once maore and strain

again; then add ginger, cinnamon, clove and long pepper, moistened with

verjuice without vinegar, and boil all together. Now let your meat be cooked

in pork's fat in gobbets or quarters, and serve it forth in bowls and pour

pottage over it and on the pottage, in each bowl, set four or five crayfish

tails, with powdered sugar over all."

The Goodman of Paris (Le Menagier de Paris, ~1390), Eileen Power,

translator

"68. Again, Stuffed Crayfish: to instruct the person who will have to do thse

stuffed crayfish, see that he has a great quantity of crayfish, that he washes

them thoroughly, sets them to cook in good water with salt; when they have

cooked, take them out onto good clean work-tables. Take the largest ones for

stuffing and remove the big shells, clean them and set them aside in good

dishes; then take the necks and legs of those large crayfish and enough of the

others to stuff the number of crayfish he intends to stuff, and remove the

meat from inside them; in the necks and entrails that are there, then put them

on a good work-table and chop them up very fine and put it in a good dish.

Then he should see that he has very good parsley which has been cleaned,

washed and drained; he should chop it up very fine and mix it in with the

crayfish meat, with a little good white ginger and saffron to give it

colour.

Then get the crayfish shells which were set aside above, and put some of that

filling into one shell and place another one face down on it, and put each of

them like that one against the other. Then see that he has good clarified oil

and put them to fry in good clean pans; when they have fried, take them out

into fine dishes and sprinkle sugar on top of them. Then they are served up

when it is time."

Maitre Chiquart Amiczo, 'Du Fait de Cuisine', 15th century, Terence

Adamantius

Østgardr, East

Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 20:52:49 -0500

From: vjarmstrong at aristotle.net (Valoise Armstrong)

Subject: Re: SC - Crawfish Recipe Request

Here's one from Das Kochbuch der Sabina Welserin (c. 1553, Augsburg)

48 To prepare crayfish

Boil the crayfish well, remove the back and front shells and pound

them in a mortar. Take then a toasted Semmel [similar to a hard roll] and

put pea broth on it and strain it through a clean cloth or a fine-meshed

colander, and a little good wine. Salt it and temper it with good spices,

saffron, cinnamon, ginger and sugar. Take fat, stir flour into it and pour

the strained crayfish thereon and let it boil. After that sprinkle sugar

upon it. This is a good lordly dish.

Valoise

Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:19:55 -0400

From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)

Subject: Re: SC - Crawfish Recipe Request

>Would anyone be able to assist me in locating some period recipes for

>crawfish?

>Matheus de Troyes

>mka Brian Songy

Hello! Here is the only mention of crayfish found in my book, "Take a

Thousand Eggs or More":

"Harleian MS. 279 - Dyuerse Bake Metis

xiij. Vn Vyaunde furnez san[3] nom de chare. Take flowre, Almaunde milke,

& Safroune, & make [th]er-of .iiij. tynez, & frye [th]i tynez in Oyle; nym

[th]en Almaundys, & draw [th]er-of mylke ry[3]t [th]ikke; nym mace[3],

Quybibe[3], & floure of Rys, Canelle, Galyngale; take [th]enne haddok,

Creue[3], Perchys, Tenche[3], & se[th]e; whan [th]ey ben sothyn, take

[th]in fyssche from [th]e bonys, & bray it ry[3]t smal with [th]in Spicerye

to-gederys, & make [th]er-of [th]in farsure. Whan it is y-makyd, departe

it in .iiij. partyis, [th]at o partye whyte, [th]at o[th]er [3]elow, [th]e

[th]rydde grene, [th]e fer[th]e blak coloure with Fygys, Roysonys, an

Datys; take [th]e firste cours of [th]e Fyssche, of al [th]e .iiij. cours,

& ley on [th]in cyvey a-bouyn [th]in Fyssche, in .iiij. quarterys, as a

chekyr, as brode as [th]in cake, & caste a-bouyn Sugre of Alysaundre, &

[th]er-vppe-on [th]ine tyne. Nym an-o[th]er cours, & ley on [th]i .iiij.

quarterys as brode as [th]in tyne, & [th]er-vppe-[on] [th]in Sugre. Nym

[th]e [th]rydde cours of [th]in Fyssche, & ley on .iiij. quarterys, & caste

a-boue Sugre, & a tyne. Nym [[th]e] .iiij. cours a-cordant to [th]in

o[th]er, a-[th]enched to-geder, an a-boue a hole as a rose, & cetera.

13. Vn Vyaunde furnez san[3] nom de chare. Take flour, Almond milk, &

Saffron, & make thereof four pancakes, & fry thy pancakes in Oil; take then

Almonds, & draw thereof milk very thick; take maces, Cubebs, & flour of

Rice, Cinnamon, Galingale; take then haddock, Crayfish, Perch, Tench, &

seethe; when they are seethed, take thine fish from the bones, & bray it

very small with thine Spicery together, & make thereof thine stuffing.

When it is made, depart it in 4 parts, that one part white, that other

yellow, the third green, the fourth black color with Figs, Raisins, and

Dates; take the first layer of the Fish, of all the 4 layers, & lay on

thine stew above thine Fish, in 4 quarters, as a checker, as broad as thine

cake, & cast above Sugar of Alexandria, & thereup[on] thine pancake. Take

another layer, & lay on thy 4 quarters as broad as thine pancake, &

thereupon thine Sugar. Take the third layer of thine Fish, & lay on 4

quarters, & cast above Sugar, & a pancake. Take [the] 4th layer accordant

to thine other, contrived* together, and above a hole as a rose,** &

etcetera.

*? From O.E. a[th]encan (pron. a[th]enchan), to think, contrive, devise, etc.

** Perhaps this means that the top layer is to have a decorative hole cut

out in the shape of a rose."

Renfrow.)

There is also a brief mention of crayfish in Le Menagier de Paris (Power,

p. 272):

"Crayfish cooked in water and wine and eaten with vinegar."

Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu

renfrow at skylands.net

Author & Publisher of "Take a Thousand Eggs or More, A Collection of 15th

Century Recipes" and "A Sip Through Time, A Collection of Old Brewing

Recipes"

http://www.alcasoft.com/renfrow/

Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 07:16:23 -0500

From: "Philip W. Troy & Susan Troy" <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - meat days and fast days - MIXED?

Stefan li Rous wrote:

> > "And as at such a feast there could be some very high, puissant, noble,

> > venerable and honorable lords and ladies who do not eat meat, for these

> > there must be fish, marine and fresh-water, fresh and salt, in such manner

> > as one can get them.

> >

> > And as the sea-bream is king of the other sea fish, listed first is the

> > sea-bream, conger-eel, grey mullet, hake, sole, red mullet, dorade, plaice,

> > turbot, sea-crayfish...

> > Concerning fresh-water fish: big trout, big eels, lampreys, filleted char,

> > fillets of big pike, fillets of big carp, big perch, ferrés, pallés,

> > graylings, burbot, crayfish, and all other fish."

> Would this "sea-crayfish" be what we know as lobster?

Unlikely. What we call lobster (Homardus Americanus, IIRC) does get into the

Eastern Atlantic, but not in the concentration we find it in the Western Atlantic. The spiny lobster is found in the South Atlantic, the Mediterranean, and, I think, the Pacific (they lack the big front claws, and are the basis for most frozen lobster tails). But there are several less commercially viable (read "smaller") arthropods found in the Mediterranean that probably include what Mistress Elizabeth translates as sea-crayfish. Scully uses the word "lobster", but without the original French word, it could be almost anything, ranging

from langouste (spiny lobster), langoustine (a smaller version actually

classified in English as a prawn or lobsterette, closely related to both the scampi and the Dublin Bay Prawn), slippershell lobster, squillfish, etc.

BTW, if I remember correctly, the father of the Red Count Amadeus of Savoy

(Chiquart's employer/patron, later Duke of Savoy, and later still, Pope) had bought (!) a county on the Mediterranean coast (either Nice or Marseilles, I forget which) so as to have local access to fresh fish, among other considerations.

Another BTW: Chiquart's employer, Amadeus, is one of those great lords who,

by choice, ate no meat, IIRC. Du Fait de Cuisine does give both meat and fish versions of the same dishes in comparable menus (part or all of the feast Chiquart is writing about falls on a fish day, so he may be including the information on the meat dishes just for the reader's information), but it seems extremely likely Amadeus had all the fish versions of the dishes described served to him, regardless of the day.

Adamantius

Østgardr, East

Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:28:03 -0500

From: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net>

Subject: Re: SC - meat days and fast days - MIXED?

Stefan asks:

>Would this "sea-crayfish" be what we know as lobster?<

It should be more like the langustinos, or the South African Lobster tails

they sell- no big front claws like our Maine lobster.

Phlip

Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:34:09 -0400From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>Subject: Re: SC - Lobster - period?"Oughton, Karin (GEIS, Tirlan)" wrote:> One of the possibles is to do lobsters...> Are there any period sources I could be pointed at, have you got any> personal goodies?>From Diuersa Servicia, Book II of Curye On Inglysch, Ed. Hieatt andButler, Early English Text Society, Oxford University Press, 1985:"66. For to make blomanger of fysch, tak a pound of rys. Les hem wel &wasch; & se)th) tyl (th)ey breste & lat hem kele; & do (th)ereto mylk ofto pound of almandys. Nym (th) perche or (th) lopuster & boyle yt, &kest sugur & salt also (th)erto, & serue yt forth."on the next page..."75. For to mak a lopister, he schal be rostyd in his scalys in a oueno(th)er by (th) feer vnder a panne, and eten wy(th) veneger."As I recall, Taillevent suggests eating them with vinegar or verjuice.Roasted lobsters, BTW, are a bit of work to get out of the shell,compared to moist-cooked versions, but have a concentrated lobsterflavor that is impossible to reproduce or even describe. I like minewith a sauce made from butter, salt and pepper, and single-malt Scotch whiskey.Adamantius

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 14:44:46 -0500

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>

Subject: Re: SC - New to the list with questions

And it came to pass on 14 Nov 99,, that Jo Marie Friedel wrote:

> Are there any 14th C French recipes for shellfish (in particular,

> mussels and shrip/prawns)? I see lots for fish and eels but have yet to

> run across any for shellfish.

Yes. Scully, in _Early French Cookery_ (a book you might wish to look

at) has a recipe for mussels that comes out of the Viandier. They're

cooked in water and vinegar with mint (optional). Serve with vinegar,

green verjuice, or green garlic sauce. Shrimp (also according to the

Viandier), are boiled in wine and water, with a little salt, and served with

vinegar.

> Tygre Marie

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 16:07:41 -0600

From: Magdalena <magdlena at earthlink.net>

Subject: Re: SC - New to the list with questions

> Are there any 14th C French recipes for shellfish (in particular,

> mussels and shrip/prawns)? I see lots for fish and eels but have yet to

> run across any for shellfish.

Since I have it open... ;> Platina is 15th century Italian. He has recipes

for (book 10 On Cooking fish) for sea urchin, mollusks, oysters, mussels, purple

fish, murex and lobster, crab, caviar, octopus, cuttle-fish, squid, and other

strange beasties. Oh, and fish. ;>

- -Magdalena

Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 17:23:38 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - New to the list with questions

Jo Marie Friedel wrote:

> Are there any 14th C French recipes for shellfish (in particular,

> mussels and shrip/prawns)? I see lots for fish and eels but have yet to

> run across any for shellfish.

Le Viandier de Taillevent has recipes for oysters and crayfish, if I

remember correctly. The oysters are made into a pottage, as I recall,

and the crayfish simply boiled and eaten with vinegar or verjuice (I

forget which) and possibly salt. I know there are 14th-century English

recipes for mussels in brewet, which call for the mussels and some

minced onion to be cooked in ale with saffron. Chiquart's Du Fait de

Cuisine, early 15th century French, has a recipe for stuffed crayfish

that I've always wanted to try: it involves lightly boiling the

crayfish, picking the meat out of the shells, and chopping it up with

vinegar and, I think, parsley, and the mixture is stuffed back into the

shells, and fried face-down (open-side down, that is) in oil until

brown. I'm working from memory here, bear with me.

Adamantius

Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 13:03:16 -0500

From: "Kappler, MMC Richard A." <KAPPLERR at swos.navy.mil>

Subject: SC - oyster pie

>Could you post this recipe (and a redaction if you have one) sometime? This

>sounds interesting.

Oyster Pie, Markham II, 125

Take of the greatest oysters drawn from the shells, and parboil them in

verjuice: then put them into a colander, and let all the moisture run from

them, till they be as dry as possible: then raise up the coffin of the pie,

and lay them in: then put to them good store of currants and fine powdered

sugar, with whole mace, whole cloves, whole cinnamon, and a nutmeg sliced,

dates cut, and a good store of sweet butter: then cover, and only leave a

vent hole: when it is baked, then draw it, and take white wine, and white

wine vinegar, sugar, cinnamon, and sweet butter, and melt it together; then

first trim the lid therewith, and candy it with sugar; then pour the rest in

at the vent hole, and shake it well, and so set it into the oven again for a

little space, and so serve it up, the dish edges trimmed with sugar. Now

some use to put to this pie onions sliced and shred, but that is referred to

discretion, and to the pleasure of the taste.

From the Michael Best edition of Markham's _The English Housewife_,

McGill-Queens University Press, 1986, ISBN 0-7735-1103-2

I do not have a redaction yet as I have thus far been unable to find

verjiuce in my area and it is past the time of year for me to make my own.

Whenever I ask for it in a local market I get blank stares. Plenty of

coffee syrup, no verjuice :-(

regards, Puck

Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:30:19 EST

From: Aldyth at aol.com

Subject: Re: SC - Re: Seven Centuries of English Cooking

LrdRas at aol.com writes:

<< It would be nice if the original recipe and the modern recipe being

discussed could be posted so the rest of us could understand what is being talked about >>

The book is _Seven Centuries of English Cooking A collection of Recipes.

By Maxime de la Falaise Edited by Arabella Boxer. Published by Grove Press

Printed in 10/92. ISBN 0-8021-3296-0

Vyaunde de Cyprys in Lent: (Two Fifteenth Century Cookbooks)

Take Gode thikke mylke of Almaundys, & do it on a potte: & nyme the Fleysshe

of fode Crabbys, &gode Samoun, & bray it smal, & tempere yt uppe with the

forsayd mylke; boyle it, an Iye it with floure of Rys or Amyndoun, an make it

chargeaunt; when it ys y-boylid, do ther-to whyte Sugre, a gode quantyte of

whyte Vernage Pime, with the wyne, Pome-garnade. When it is y-dressyd, straw

a-boue the grayne of Pome-garnade.

Crab and Salmon Mould

serves 3-4

1/2 pound fresh crab meat, cooked

1/2 pound salmon, cooked

1 cup almond milk

2 TBS Rice flour

2 TBS White Wine

2 TBS Sugar

Seeds from 1-2 pomegranates

Flake the crab meat and salmon, put them in a blender with the almond milk

and puree. Spoon into saucepan, heat gently and sprinkle in the flour. Stir

until thickened, and then add the wine and sugar. Stir in the pomegranate

seeds and season to taste with a little pepper and salt. Chill in a wetted

mould. Turn out to serve.

Aldyth

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 06:44:56 -0500

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Re: Seven Centuries of English Cooking

LrdRas at aol.com wrote:

> For example, the seafood should be, IMO, chopped very fine or mashed in a

> mortar. Liquefying it is a big stretch and would produce a far different

> texture than they were capable of producing at the time that this was

> originally written.

Probably true, but ultimately I'm not sure how much real difference it

will make. The original says to "bray it small", I believe, which

basically means to mash or puree, depending on how small you want it.

Reducing it to baby food or even a healthy shake isn't my idea of a good

time, but this book was written before the advent of the domestic

cuisinart and before the return of the mortar as a fashionable kitchen

gadget. It may be that it's understood that blender users have a bit of

control with pulse settings, just as they might with a food processor

today, but a finer puree may simply reflect the tastes of the year this

book was written (1973?). In the end it gets thickened pretty

dramatically anyway.

Adamantius

Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 19:57:48 -0600

From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>

Subject: SC - Vyaunde de Cyprys in Lent (was: Seven Centuries of English Cooking)

At 3:40 PM -0500 1/25/00, Aldyth at aol.com wrote:

>...Two recipes caught my eye. One was "Crab

>and Salmon Mould" which is taken from _Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery Books_

>the recipe reads "Vyaunde de Cyprys in Lent". It bears little resemblance to

>Cindy Renfrows interpretation, believe me. I would be glad to post all three

>recipes if you want. I don't even see how Maxime's recipe would result in a

>molded thing.

Here is our version of this recipe from the Miscellany.

Vyaunde de Cyprys in Lent

Two Fifteenth Century p. 28/57

Take good thick milk of almonds, and do it on a pot; nym the flesh of

good crabs, and good salmon, and bray it small, and temper it up with

the foresaid milk; boil it, and lye it with flour of rice or

amyndoun, and make it chargeaunt; when it is yboiled, do thereto

white sugar, a gode quantitie of white vernage pimes [apparently a

wine like muscadine] with the wine, pomegranate. When it is ydressed,

strew above the grains of pomegranate.

almond milk: (see p. 7)

7 oz salmon

4 t Rhine wine

2 oz blanched almonds

2 T rice flour

2 T pomegranate juice

1 c water

3 T sugar

pomegranate seeds

7 oz crabmeat

Make almond milk. Remove skin and bones from salmon, cut salmon and

crab into cubes and shred with French chef's knife. Mix fish and

almond milk and cook over medium heat; add sugar, wine, and

pomegranate juice after 5 minutes; add rice flour after 11 minutes,

cook, stirring, another minute, remove from heat and keep stirring

another half minute. Garnish with pomegranate seeds.

Elizabeth/Betty Cook

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 09:06:09 -0500From: "Siegfried Heydrich" <baronsig at peganet.com>Subject: Re: SC - Getting people to eat period food A Frutti di Mar is just a generic term used to describe an antipastothat's made with seafood (usually whatever was available in the market orthe guys brought home on the boats), and there is no 'recipe' per se. It'smore a matter of 'whatcha got'. A good Sicilian Frutti di Mar traditionally has ingredients that willmake most Americans power chunder on the spot. The octopus, squid, and conchare usually cut into small, bite sized pieces, marinaded or pickled, andthings like mussels, clams, or oysters were steamed lightly, then added tothe mixture still in the shell. You can find frozen conch in most seafoodstores, even up north. Sieggy

Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 10:12:32 -0600 (MDT)

From: grasse at mscd.edu (Martina Grasse)

Subject: SC - Shrimp auf Rumpolts art

In the original these dishes are in Rumpolt's chapter on Krebs. The woodcut

shows a lobster, but if you look up Flusskrebs the translation is crawfish,

so I used shrimp (because they were on sale, and I was bringing them to

Caerthe's Cavalier Holiday picnic last Sunday, and I'm on a budget.)

I will be cooking the feast (probably straight from Rumpolt) for Caerthe's

Arts and Sciences competition in November, and have had requests to find a

way to include at least one of these in one of the courses. (Yes, I take

requests.)

I do not have the transcribed German to hand (will do tonight) and I do not

have the translation (see above for reason ;-) But I do remember what I did

to re-create it, and both these recipes tasted soo good I had to share

(while we are on a Rumpolt kick.)

#16 400 year old fried shrimp ;-)

1/2 pound of large (25-30 per lb) raw shrimp

1/4 cup of flour

4oz butter

salt, pepper and powdered, dried ginger (to taste)

Rinse shrimp, peel (and devine) but leave the tail shell attached.

Salt and pepper the shrimp, then dust them with flour (enough to coat, but

shake off any excess.)

In a heavy medium size skillet melt and heat the butter.

In the hot butter, fry the shrimp on both sides till golden brown and done,

but don't overcook. I used high heat, the butter started to brown a little.

The shrimp were done very quickly and picked up a little of that nutty brown

butter flavor. Remove and drain the shrimp (on absorbent toweling) and while

still hot dust them with the ginger (to taste.) This is great hot and also

very good cold. (I took it to a picnic to great reviews.)

#11 Shrimp with butter and verjuice

5 extra large raw shrimp (the 12-16 per lb. Size)

1 T butter

1 t verjuice

pepper

5 Oyster shells (deep half) (would make 1 dinner serving or 2-3 appetizers,

increase as needed)

I did not have oyster shells to hand, so I used scallop shells.

Peel, tail, and devine your shrimp. Place one shrimp (curled up) into deep

end of each shell. Season with pepper (to taste,) then top with a dollop of

butter (I think I used about 1/2 t per shrimp) and a few drops of verjuice.

(OK, I gotta admit I had to cheat here... I do not have verjuice in my pantry

yet, so I experimented, I did 2 with cider vinegar, 2 with balsamic vinegar,

and one with red wine that was too sour for my tastes.) The balsamic was the

standout winner.

To cook I placed my 5 scallop shells (filled with their precious cargo) into

my largest skillet, added water to the skillet (not enough to flow into the

shells!) and placed a lid on it. Then turned on the heat and let them steam

away till they were cooked through (about 5 minutes.) This was wonderfully

rich, and looked very elegant hot from the pan, and they were still delicious

and showy served room temperature the next day at the park.

I think you could use smaller shrimp and place 3-5 in each shell, thereby

extending your shells (my biggest skillet only fit the 5 shells I own, and by

placing multiples per shell I could have appetizers for 5 rather than seeming

chintzy at only serving each person one shrimp, or having to do 3-5 batches

so my guest would have to eat their appetizers in shifts;-)

Hope you enjoy, and as always, feedback appreciated.

Gwen-Catrin von Berlin

Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 21:06:27 -0600 (MDT)

From: grasse at mscd.edu (Martina Grasse)

Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2348 rumpolt shrimp

Here is transliteration and translation of the recipes I posted earlier.

# 11 Nim die Krebsschwa:entz/ thu sie mit Butter in Austernschalen/ pfeffers/

vnd thu ein wenig Agrastbru:eh darein/ las in den Austernschalen auffsieden/

gib es also warm auf ein Tisch

11 Take the crawfish tails/ put them with butter into oystershells/ pepper (them)/ and put a little verjuice therein/ let it simmer in the oystershells/

give it warm to the table.

#16

Wenn die Krebs klein seind/ so dreh das fo:erder am Schwantz herausz/

nim{m} die Oberschalen davon hinweg/ lasz die Schalen am Schwantz

hengen/ pfeffers/ Saltzs vnd Mehls wol/ backs ausz der heiszen Butter/ gibs

trucken also warm auff ein Tisch/ bestra:ew es mit einem Jngwer/ so ist es gut

vnd wolgeschmack.

If the crawfish are small/ so twist the front away from the tail/

take the shells away/ (but) leave the shell attached at the tail/

pepper/ salt and flour (them) well/ bake (fry) them in the hot butter/ give

dry and warm to a table/ sprinkle it with ginger/ so it is good

and welltasting.

Gwen Cat von Berlin

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:46:36 -0400

From: margali <margali at 99main.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Iscia ex Spondylis

> IIRC, I did this Apician recipe using scallops. However, my interpretation of

> the recipe was very different from what you describe. My was a patty (fritter

> like, IIRC).

> Could you post the translated recipe so I can be sure we are talking about

> the same recipe?

> Ras

My old standby, granted I have this from waaaaaaay back when all I had access to

was the Vehling:

[lightly] cook scallops remove the hard and objectionable parts, mince the meat

very fine, mix this with cooked spelt and eggs, season with pepper, [shape into croquettes and wrap] in caul, fry, underlay a rich fish sauce and serve as a delicious entree.

The shrimp is because I almost always have shrimp on hand, and I really like

shrimp, and I seem to remember back in our old discussions on the recipe that

spondylis was undecided.

I used the coarsegrained spelt because I just laid in my pennsic supply, and it

is a period roman grain.

I made the spelt into a really pastlike cream of wheat, thick enough to be fairly solid when cold. I pounded the shrimps in a small mortar [one of the 2 cup marble ones, that being what I have at home and doing a 2 person amount] then when they were a paste I glorped in the cream o'spelt and mixed it thoroughly, added egg and white pepper [being out of black, the penzeys run is next week] and fried in fat peeled off of the pork roast we did a few weeks ago and stashed in the freezer. There is not much difference, IMHO between round like meatballs, flat patties or any other form, as long as they are mouthful in size and don't fall apart when eaten with fingers ;-)

To whit:

1 cup cream o'spelt, cold [just sub in spelt semolina for the cream of wheat in a typical 3 serving batch]

8 oz shrimps, peeled and sightly cooked in water with a bit of worchestershire

sauce [my desired sub for garum]

4 whole medium eggs, beaten lightly

1 quarter tsp ground white pepper

3 tbsp pork lard

the sauce was fish sauce, wine, cumin, pepper and honey. I used some of the

poaching medium from teh shrimp boosted with a bit more of the worchestershire

sauce, and added preground cumin, white pepper and some barberone wine, tasted

and added just enough honey, in its capacity for augmenting flavor rather than

making it sweet. I simmered it down a bit to make it much less drippy, about a

one third reduction.

1 half cup poaching liquid

1 tbsp worchestershire sauce

1 quarter cup barberonne

1 quarter tsp pepper

1 quarter tsp cumin

1 tsp honey

I plated it with the sauce on the side in dipping bowls. I know that Vehling said to underlay it with the sauce, but I prefer dipping.

margali

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:12:34 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Iscia ex Spondylis

Stefan li Rous wrote:

> What are these "hard and objectionalble" parts on scallops? All the scallops

> I've seen were round disks about an inch in diameter and about half that

> thick, sometimes smaller sometimes larger depending upon whether they were

> from ocean or bay. These were firm, kind of like shrimp in firmness but

> I don't remember any "hard and objectionalble" parts. Or were these

> already removed from the ones I saw for sale at the seafood counter?

Very possibly, yes. Scallops are a fairly complex organism, and unless

you get them live, in the shell, in places like France or parts of Asia,

what you're getting and eating is the adductor muscle (the one that

holds the shells closed), which is really two muscles wrapped in a

medium-tough membrane. Once that membrane is removed, you have two

muscles, one being the larger, sweet, tender "tenderloin", the part

usually associated with scallops. The other is known in English as the

"strap", and it's much smaller, less sweet, and full of connective

tissue. All bivalves have adductor muscles, but for most edible species

the adductor is more like the strap than like the main adductor of a

scallop. Usually only culinary deviants like myself bother to eat and

enjoy the adductors of mussels, clams, and oysters.

> I may have to try this recipe sometime, when I'm feeling extravagent.

> Although as I remember there is a big difference in price between the

> bay and ocean scallops.

For what it's worth, Flower and Rosenbaum translate sphondylis as

mussels, and they're much cheaper than even bay scallops in most places.

I think the use of scallops is another Vehlingism, but looking at the

sauce and serving method, I suspect that something more powerfully

flavored than scallops might do well.

Adamantius

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 09:13:22 -0500

From: "Michael F. Gunter" <michael.gunter at fnc.fujitsu.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Iscia ex Spondylis

> What are these "hard and objectionalble" parts on scallops? All the scallops

> I've seen were round disks about an inch in diameter and about half that

> thick, sometimes smaller sometimes larger depending upon whether they were

> from ocean or bay.

> --

> Lord Stefan li Rous Barony of Bryn Gwlad Kingdom of Ansteorra

What you get in the supermarket are scallops that have been deshelled, cleaned

and presented for your approval. The part you eat is basically a muscle that is

pretty much in the center of the animal. If you open a shell you will see this

pearly white chunk of meat in the middle of a bunch of typically icky shellfish

parts. You cut the white chunk out and discard the rest. There is usually a

rather hard and rubbery pinkish muscle attached to it that you sometimes

get in seafood shops. I think they leave it on as an indicator that it really is

scallop and not whitefish. Trim that off before you prepare the dish.

I hope that clarifies things.

Gunthar

Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:37:04 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - Iscia ex Spondylis

"Michael F. Gunter" wrote:

> There is usually a

> rather hard and rubbery pinkish muscle attached to it that you sometimes

> get in seafood shops. I think they leave it on as an indicator that it really

> is scallop and not whitefish. Trim that off before you prepare the dish.

Sorry, I intended to mention this earlier today... whether the "strap"

is left on as a badge of authenticity I couldn't say, but the standard

rumor about faux scallops has always been, AFAIK, that they're punched

from skate wings. And while skate wings in their raw form could be said

to vaguely resemble scallops if skinned, boned, and cut into rounds with

a sort of cookie cutter, the deception would be immediately apparent

once the fish is cooked; the texture is entirely different, and a

less-than-fresh skate wing smells even worse, if such a thing is

imaginable, than a bad scallop. Skates being one of those deep-water,

ammonia-producing fish...

A.J. MacLane says in The Encyclopedia of Fish Cookery that the practice

is very widely known but almost never actually practiced. I have,

however, seen some kinda funky surimi/fish cake forms being sold as

scallops.

Adamantius

Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 17:50:10 -0400

From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Scallop

If you can find it the check out the following book, "The Scallop; Studies

of a shell and its influences on Humankind" by eight authors, Edited by Ian

Cox, C.B.E., M.A. published in London by the "Shell" Transport and Trading

Company, Ltd. 1957,

Its got everything etymology, biology, symbology, iconology, heraldry, and

how to cook'em.

Daniel Raoul

Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:43:46 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - need calamari advice

Robin Carroll-Mann wrote:

> I've eaten squid before, but never cooked it. I was redacting a recipe

> from de Nola (which I will post soon) which called for the squid to be

> gently fried (sofrito), then cooked in an almond milk sauce. I fried it on

> medium for 5 minutes, then simmered for 30 minutes, which seemed to

> be a time recommended by many recipes on the web. The rings (cut

> from the body, not tentacles, if that matters) were edible, but not quite

> as tender as I would have liked. Should I have cooked them longer? I

> kept testing them throughout the 30 minutes, and could not cut them

> with the edge of my wooden spoon, so I kept simmering. Incidently,

> cuttlefish is an alternative fish for this recipe, and I saw several recipes

> that suggested *it* be simmered for 40-45 minutes.

Squid and cuttlefish both seem to respond well to either a quick or a

slow cooking, but medium tends to be deadly. Not unlike tomatoes in this

respect. Squid should be cooked for less than five minutes, roughly, or

for an hour or so, according to most of the slow-cooked recipes I've

seen. Same for cuttlefish, which is similarly constructed, up to a

point, but generally much larger and meatier.

> So what's the deal here? Should the squid be cooked longer? Does

> cuttlefish require more time than squid? (And how does it differ from its

> cousin?) Can the two be cooked together without causing problems?

Probably you could cook cuttlefish for 10 minutes or so, and add squid

perhaps halfway through. I'm not sure, though, at what point you could

cut them with a wooden spoon. They are kind of crunchy by nature when

cooked, and while the texture does change with additional cooking, it

goes from being slightly rubbery, but kind of al dente, to being that

sort of deep rubber texture of a hard pencil eraser. Some people do find

this preferable, since it is more... yielding to the teeth, although

somewhat hard. Probably the closest thing I can liken it to is the firm

tenderness of, say, very hard hard-boiled eggs. I know there are some

Mediterranean squid and cuttlefish dishes that call for this type of

long braising, and the canned squid in sauce made from their ink is a

descendant of these.

My own preference is to saute the squid very quickly in a hot pan, then

add the sauce ingredients and just finish cooking the fish.

Adamantius

Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 23:11:39 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - need calamari advice

Alan mcdowell wrote:

> How the deuce does one clean calamari? And is it good

> deep fried in a batter? I can obtain calamari both fresh and frozen but balked

> at all the 'eyes' and tentacles. >laughing<

> Squeamishness from a big game hunter...go figure.

For larger squid, say, a body tube length of 6 inches or less: grasp

body tube in the non-dominant hand (if you are right-handed, grasp tube

in left hand), and the head/tentacle section in the other hand. Using

slow, steady tension, pull the head off the rest of the body, and most

of the entrails will come away with it.

Stick your finger into the body tube and scrape out any remaining

entrails, sand, if any, and make sure to loosen and remove the clear

plastic-y-looking bone. It looks like something in between a piece of

cellophane and a clear polished ladies' long fingernail, running pretty

much the length of the body.

For larger squid you'll want to remove the purplish skin; rubbing a

little coarse salt over the squid will help scrape it away, or just peel

it away with your fingers. You may want to pull off the tail fins --

these run along the rear half (actually the front half, when the squid

is swimming) of the body tube, and can be a bit tough, but are easily

removed by simply pulling them off. With smaller squid you may feel okay

about leaving the skin and fins in place, but skinning them makes for a

more attractive, white seafood.

Cut the tentacle/mouth section off the head, between the eyes and the

tentacles. You may or may not want to get insane and retreive the two

ink pouches from the entrail mass behind the head (these will be the

dark black masses which are clearly not eyes). The ink is good in tomato

sauces used to cook the squid, rolled into fresh pasta dough, and

various other uses, including, perhaps, calligrapher's ink. You may want

to clean and skin the tentacles with more coarse salt and a little

patience. It is the favorite part for most squid lovers, it seems, but

the larger suction cups on the tentacles can, on larger specimens, have

little suction cup bones made of the same stuff the backbone is made of,

in little rings fitting inside the suction cups. I just run my

fingernail along the inside of each tentacle to remove these, and don't

bother skinning anything but the body tubes.

Yes, they can be battered and fried, although I much prefer a simple

seasoned flour dusting for most European-style fried squid dishes,

including the basic Southern Italian calamari fritte marinara. My

favorite Asian-type fried squid dish involves either a dusting of rice

flour or a rice flour or wheat starch batter, frying it, and quickly

sauteeing it with roasted five-spice salt and chopped green chillies.

Most of the squid sold in the USA seems to be frozen, including the

stuff thawed and the sold as fresh in the fish markets. Unlike a lot of

other seafoods, though, it seems to suffer relatively little from this

treatment. I find this odd because there are loliga squid swimming

visibly in the waters off New York City and Long Island, but we mostly

get frozen squid from Indonesia. You can, BTW, pay somewhat more premium

prices to get frozen and, theoretically, cleaned and skinned squid, and

it does indeed contain somewhat less, ounce for ounce, guts, skin, and

bones. It just is not entirely free of them. Usually it's a time-saver

and makes for a much more pleasant trash bag after cooking, but you

still have to give them a quick once-over.

Adamantius

Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 14:44:18 EDT

From: KallipygosRed at aol.com

Subject: SC - SC-Re Squid/Cook Times

From my wonderful non-member friend, Hols, and her great storehouse of

knowledge on squid, octopus, etc.

Lars

**Tell them that even two and a half minutes is too long for

multi-legged swimmy things. The ideal way to cook octopus is to "blanch" it

by dunking it in boiling water three times. After boiling in the name of

the Father, Son, etc, it can be cleaned and cooked as directed.-Holly**

Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:45:47 -0400

From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>

Subject: Re: SC - SC-Re Squid/Cook Times

KallipygosRed at aol.com wrote:

> **Tell them that even two and a half minutes is too long for

> multi-legged swimmy things. The ideal way to cook octopus is to "blanch" it

> by dunking it in boiling water three times. After boiling in the name of

> the Father, Son, etc, it can be cleaned and cooked as directed.-Holly**

Certainly there are octopus that respond well to this kind of treatment,

and many that are too large and tough; it'll depend on what you normally

find in your area. I can see this method being effective with the small

baby octos, particularly ones taken fresh from the Aegean, but the

2-3-pounders often sold frozen may requre a bit more.

I suggest blanching them until you can skin them, and cooking them until

they're done, and avoid relying too heavily on the timer.

Adamantius

Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:41:01 -0400

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>

Subject: Re: SC - need calamari advice

And it came to pass on 22 Aug 00,, that Philip & Susan Troy wrote:

> You can, BTW, pay somewhat more premium prices to

> get frozen and, theoretically, cleaned and skinned squid, and it does

> indeed contain somewhat less, ounce for ounce, guts, skin, and bones. It

> just is not entirely free of them. Usually it's a time-saver and makes for

> a much more pleasant trash bag after cooking, but you still have to givce

> them a quick once-over.

> Adamantius

I got my squid -- frozen -- at a local Chinese grocery. It was cleaned,

except for a bit of the plastic-like spine inside, and was only $2.99/lb,

as compared to the fresh, intact-with-eyes-and-everything squid at the

fish counter for $2.69/lb. The frozen calamari pieces in my local

supermarket (mostly tentacle rings) are around $3.50/lb.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 23:31:30 -0400

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Period Restaurant?

And it came to pass on 23 Sep 00,, that Philip & Susan Troy wrote:

> But as Phillipa states, there are indeed several

> recipes for oysters (mostly pottages as I recall), and some for lobsters

> (basic cooking and serving instructions, maybe not recipes per se) in the

> medieval English and French corpus, and probably other cultures as well.

Nola says that one cannot make perfect blancmange of fish without

lobster (the other main ingredient is pandora). Granado has several

recipes for lobster, most of which involve mixing the chopped meat with

other ingredients (lobster meatballs, stuffed lobster, etc.). Villena in the

_Arte de Cortar_ gives instructions for "carving" a lobster and removing

its meat.

Platina says that lobsters are not good unless boiled alive, but then

adds that one can also pry them open, pour in pepper sauce, and roast

them on the grill.

> Adamantius

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 23:08:42 -0500

From: harper at idt.net

Subject: Re: SC - Spanish Lobster recipes?

And it came to pass on 16 Nov 00, , that E. Rain wrote:

> There is a small chance that I could get cheap/free Lobsters for my spanish

> banquet next spring, and I'm interested if any of you who are working with

> the various Spanish/Catalan/Portuguese texts have come across any recipes

> for lobster other than the one Bridget posted a while back from Granado "To

> Fry the Flesh of Crabs and Lobsters"/"Para freyr las pulpas de los

> Congrejos, y Langostas"

As I said in my previous post, Nola only has a recipe for

blancmange. Granado has several lobster/crab recipes other than

that one I previously posted. By way of summary, they are:

1. boiled, and served with oil, vinegar, pepper, and salt

2. boiled, then the meat removed and cooked in a pottage with oil,

herbs, spices, and non-salty broth of some other fish.

3. lobster meat cut in pieces, then fried in oil with chopped onions,

then add water, wine, verjuice, salt, and spices, served with

chopped herbs and sweet spices

4. lobster meat cooked in wine or water, chopped, then fried in oil

or butter, add verjuice and raisins and fish broth, simmer for 1/4

hour, thicken with egg yolks or ground almonds or grated bread.

5. meatballs made of lobster meat with some salted eel, spices,

raisins, sugar, oil or butter, mint, and marjoram.

6. stuffed - boiled, then the meat is removed and chopped, mixed

with the ingredients in #5, or with grated cheese, eggs, and herbs.

Put the mixture back in the shell, then fry or grill until cooked.

If any of those sound promising, let me know. I don't have any of

them translated, but I could do one or two, especially if you don't

mind correct-but-sloppy.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 22:51:13 -0500

From: harper at idt.net

Subject: SC - Recipe: Spanish lobster

Here they are. I snipped a section at the beginning where Granado

is describing the critters. Just keep in mind that he regards

lobsters as a kind of crab, and refers to them accordingly.

Source: Diego Granado, _Libro del arte de Cozina_ (Spanish, 1599)

Translation: Brighid ni Chiarain (Robin Carroll-Mann)

De los Cangrejos, y Langostas

Of crabs and lobsters

[description of sea crabs and lobsters omitted]

The season for lobsters is the same as that for the Lion Crab. Cook it in

this manner: take the crabs, and for each one cover the hole in its tail.

Put it in a vessel in which there is water and salt, or wine, pepper,

vinegar, and salt. And if the lobster has eggs, it is necessary that it

should be well washed, because often they are full of sand, and being

cooked, remove the shell of the tail, and the legs, and remove from them

the nerve which they have in the tail, and serve them with pepper,

vinegar, sweet oil, and salt on top.

Para cozer los sobredichos cangrejos de otra manera

To cook the above mentioned crabs in another manner

Take the flesh from the tail of the abovementioned crabs or lobsters, after

cooking them in one of the abovementioned ways, cut it into little pieces,

and make it into a pottage with oil, and herbs, spices, and broth of

another fish which is not very salty, and some unripe grapes. You can

make it in another manner: after cutting the flesh into pieces, fry them in

oil with chopped onions, adding water, wine, verjuice, and salt, and a

good amount of spices, and finish cooking them. At the end, before

serving them, put some finely cut herbs on them, and serve them hot

with sweet spices on top.

Para hazer escudilla de los cangrejos, y langostas

To make a dish of the crabs and lobsters

The lobster is always better than the other two kinds of crabs. Take its

flesh cooked in wine, or in water, and chop it finely with the knife, then

fry it in oil, or with cowís butter, and a little broth from another fish, and a

little verjuice, and raisins, and having boiled it for a quarter of an hour,

thicken it with egg yolks, as is done with dishes of chopped meat. In

place of the eggs, you can put ground almonds, or grated bread, and in

this manner you can give substance to all the abovementioned pottages.

Para hazer albondiguillas de los sobredichos cangrejos, y langostas

To make meatballs of the abovementioned crabs and lobsters

Take the flesh from the tail and the legs of the said fish, and chop it very

finely while still raw, and for each pound of flesh, three ounces of the

flesh of salted eels, without spines, adding common spices, raisins, a

little sugar, oil or cowís butter, chopped mint, marjoram, and from this

mixture make meatballs, and cook them, as we said of those made from

pike.

[excerpt from the recipe for meatballs made from pike: make round little

balls with your hand, and coat them with the finest flour, and put them in

a pan in which there is oil or fat*, and cook them with fire below and

above, turning them, and being dewy**, serve them hot with orange

juice and sugar on top.]

*the word used is ìmantecaî, which can be either lard or butter. Granado

often says ìmanteca de puercoî

or ìmanteca de vacasî, but here he does not specify.

** the word ìrociadasî means wet with dew, or by extension, sprinkled

with moisture. I am not sure how it applies here.

Para hazer la langosta rellena

To make stuffed lobster

Take the lobster, which is better and more tender than the ìAstrizoî

[variety of crab], and cook it with water, and salt, and remove the flesh

from the tail, and clean the body leaving the shell whole. Chop the flesh

finely, and make a mixture, like that of the meatballs, or if not, with the

said chopped flesh, grated cheese, eggs, and herbs, and fill the shell with

this mixture, and if there are two lobsters, put the stuffed shell in the

empty one, and tie it, and fry it in oil, or cowís butter, and when it is

cooked, serve it hot on plates with some sauce. You can also roast it on

the grill, but having only one lobster, save the belly which you removed

from the shell, and when the shell is stuffed, with ingenuity put the belly

in its place, putting a slice of bread on the part in front, and tie it with a

thread of hemp, in such a way that the mixture cannot come out, and

roast it on the grill, and serve it, as I have said, having untied the thread.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain

Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:06:09 -0000

From: "Olwen the Odd" <olwentheodd at hotmail.com>

Subject: SC - Scallop pie (OOP?)

Greetings all. I just had to share this recipe with you all. Mistress

Margherita made this dish for last cooks guild and it is DELICIOUS. She

lists the site where the recipe comes from and it seems as though it could

very well be peri-oid at least. She ditched the suggested topping of mashed

potatoes and used a crust. This is now on my front line recipe list.

Olwen

>From: Weaver8002 at aol.com

>Lord Hans -

>here's my receipe from the last meeting.

>Margherita

>SCALLOP PIE

>8 x Large scallops*

> 300 ml Milk

> 2 x Salt and pepper

> 2 T Butter

> 1 T Flour

> 1/2 lb Mushrooms, sliced

> 4 T Med.sweet white wine

> 1 lb Fresh mashed potatoes

>* Or 4 scallops and an equal amount of any white fish. Or more scallops,if

>you like.

>Clean the scallops and cut in half, then simmer in the milk for 15 minutes.

>Strain, reserving the liquid. Heat 1 tablespoon of the butter and stir in the

>flour, cook for about a minute, stirring, then add the milk

>gradually,stirring all the time to avoid lumps. Seasonwith salt and pepper,

>add the sliced mushrooms and simmer for about 10 minuteslonger; then add the

>sherry or wine and finally the scallops. When hot,transfer to an ovenproof

>dish and cover with mashed potatoes, making sure theycover the fish right

>to the edges. Dot with the remaining butter and bake in a moderate

>oven,350F, for 20-30 minutes, or until the top is turning brown.

> THE SITE THIS IS FROM IShttp://www.ibmpcug.co.uk/~owls/irishlst.htm

>First‚ loose the potatoes. Use a piecrust instead.

>Added nutmeg.

>300 ML = 1 1/4 CUPS. I use a cup & a half. I had12 ‚Äì 15 scallops.

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:57:49 -0400

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Oysters was NOT OT: genetically engineereed foods

From: Daniel Myers <doc at medievalcookery.com>

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 11:30 PM, Terry Decker wrote:

> How about oysters? From Pliny, we know the Romans created oyster beds and

> practiced a form of aquaculture. So what happened to them after the glory

> faded. Do we have any recipes from within period? Do we have any

> references?

Heaps! How are these for a start ...

From Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books:

Oystres en grauey. Take gode Mylke_of_Almaundys, an drawe it wyth Wyne

an gode Fysshe brothe, an sette it on the fyre, & let boyle; & caste

ther-to Clowes, Maces, Sugre an powder Gyngere, an a fewe parboylid

Oynonys y-mynsyd; than take fayre Oystrys, & parboyle hem in fayre

Water, & caste hem ther-to, an lete hem boyle to-gederys; & thanne

serue hem forth.

Oystrys in grauy bastard. Take grete Oystrys, an schale hem; an take

the water of the Oystrys, & ale, an brede y-straynid, an the water

also, an put it on a potte, an Gyngere, Sugre, Saffron, powder pepir,

and Salt, an let it boyle wyl; then put yn the Oystrys ther-to, and

dresse it forth.

Oystrys in bruette. Take an schene Oystrys, an kepe the water that

cometh of hem, an strayne it, an put it in a potte, & Ale ther-to, an a

lytil brede ther-to; put Gyngere, Canel, Pouder of Pepir ther-to,

Safroun an Salt; an whan it is y-now al-moste, putte on thin Oystrys:

loke that they ben wyl y-wasshe for the schullys: & than serue forth.

Oystres in grauey. Take almondes, and blanche hem, and grinde hem, and

drawe hem thorg a streynour wit wyne, and with goode fress brot into

gode mylke, and sette hit on the fire and lete boyle; and cast thereto

Maces, clowes, Sugur, pouder of Ginger, and faire parboyled oynons

myced; And then take faire oystres, and parboile hem togidre in faire

water; And then caste hem there-to, And lete hem boyle togidre til they

ben ynowe; and serue hem forth for gode potage.

Oystres in cevey. Take oystres and shell hem and put hem in a vessell,

(and the water that is within the oystres with-all;) And cast therto a

litul wyne, And sette hem over the fire, and parboyle hem; And then

take faire the oystres vppe of the brot, and put hem in a faire potte;

And take the same brot, and drawe hit thorg a streynour, and cast hit

in-to the oystres, And sette hit ouer the fire; And take a litull Of

the same brot ayen; and a litull wyne, and put hit yn a faire vessell,

and put there-to browne crustes and pouder canell, and draw hit thorg a

streynour; and myce oynons small, and fry hem in oyle or in butter, and

caste hem there-to, and sette ouer the fire. And whan the oystres

boyleth, caste the licoure there-to, and ceson hit vppe with pouder of

peper, salt, and a litel saffron, and cast there-to a litul vinegre,

that hit be poynant there-of in the sesenyng and browne also; And serue

hit fort for a gode potage.

From Forme of Cury:

OYSTERS IN GRAVEY. XX.VI. I. Schyl Oysters and seeth hem in wyne and in

hare own broth. cole the broth thurgh a cloth. take almandes blaunched,

grynde hem and drawe hem up with the self broth. & alye it with flour

of Rys. and do the oysters therinne, cast in powdour of gyngur, sugur,

macys. seeth it not to stondyng and serue forth.

MUSKELS IN BREWET. XX.VI. II. Take muskels, pyke hem, seeth hem with

the owne broth, make a lyour of crustes & vynegur do in oynouns mynced.

& cast the muskels therto & seeth it. & do therto powdour with a lytel

salt & safron the samewise make of oysters.

OYSTERS IN CYNEE. XX.VI. III. Take Oysters parboile hem in her owne

broth, make a lyour of crustes of brede & drawe it up with the broth

and vynegur mynce oynouns & do therto with erbes. & cast the oysters

therinne. boile it. & do therto powdour fort & salt. & messe it forth.

XIV - FOR TO MAKE OYSTRYN IN BRUET. They schul be schallyd and ysod in

clene water grynd peper safroun bred and ale and temper it wyth Broth

do the Oystryn ther'ynne and boyle it and salt it and serve it forth.

From Liber cure cocorum:

For to make potage of oysturs. Perboyle thyn oysturs and take hom oute.

Kepe welle thy bre with outen doute, And hakke hom on a borde full

smalle, And bray in a morter thou schalle. Do hom in hor owne brothe

for goode, Do mylke of almondes ther to by the rode, And lye hit up

with amydone, And frye smalle mynsud onyone In oyle, or sethe hom in

mylke thou schalle. Do powdur therto of spyces withalle, And coloure

hit thenne with safron gode. Hit is holden restoratyf fode.

Oystere in browet. Take and schole hom and sethe hom in clene water.

Grynde peper and safroun with brede and ale, temper hit Up with the

same brothe, and do the oysters ther in, and Let hit boyle and cast

salt therin and messe hit forthe.

- Doc

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Edouard Halidai (Daniel Myers)

http://www.medievalcookery.com/

Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:12:41 EST

From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com

Subject: Re: Not OOP--serving shrimp (was Re: [Sca-cooks] OP: shrimps

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com writes:

<<In C. Anne Wilson's _Food in Britain_, she talks about shrimp being eaten

in period and that they were served with vinegar. But that's all that she

says. How would one go about cooking and serving shrimp, for, say, a 13th

c. feast? Or would this have been considered low-class and not served?>>

No, there are definitely recipes for shrimps, "lopisters", and similar items

in period recipe manuscripts. I know there is at least one in Take a Thousand

Eggs. They mostly just seem to be "boil and serve with vinegar". Quite

tasty, too - I did some for an intro to medieval food class that I did for local

Girl Scout leaders.

Brangwayna

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 08:30:51 EST

From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for Crab recipes

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

DeeWolff at aol.com writes:

<<Hi, I have stepped out of kitchener semi-retirement and am looking

for crab recipes.

I am working on an "Everyman's"menu: specifically on the English Isles

(Cornwall, Ireland, Wales,Scotland, etc)>>

How about Crabbe or Lopster Boiled from Harleian MS 4016 (1450):

Take a crabbe or a lopster, and stop him in the vente with on of hire

clees, and seth him in water, and no salt; or else stoppe him in the same maner,

and cast him in an oven, and bake him, and serve him forth cold. And his

sauce is vinegre.

Can't get much simpler than that, although I don't quite get the "stop him in

the vent with one of her claws" instruction, and Cindy Renfrow doesn't list

that one in her phrase glossary at the back of Take a Thousand Eggs.

There's also, Vyaunde de cyprys in lente, from Harleain MS 279 (1430):

Take good thikke mylke of Almaundys, do it on a potte; & nyme the

F(le)ysshe of gode Crabbys, and gode Samoun, & bray it smal, and tempere yt uppe

with the forsayd mylke; boyle it, and lye it with floure of Rys or Amyndoun, an

make it chargeaunt; when it ys y-boylid, do ther-to whyte Sugre, a gode

quantyte of whyte Vernage Pime3 with the wyne, Pome-garnade. Whan it

is y-dressyd, straw a-bove the grayne of Pome-garnade

Bit more involved, and more expensive as it involves both salmon and

pomegranites as well as the crab.

<<I especially need recipes with stretchers (pie/cakes) as to not

destroy the budget (I also have pork and lamb on the menu)>>

Hmmm. I find bean recipes to be great stretchers myself, as they are

Cheap and a bag of dried beans makes a LOT of cooked food.

Brangwayna

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 10:11:05 -0500

From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for Crab recipes

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Also sprach DeeWolff at aol.com:

> In the Wedding Banquet Of HenryIV and Joan of Navarre (1404), there is a

> listing of "Crabbe au Creueys" in the fish courses. Does anyone know in what

> manner these crabs are made ?

> Andrea

I would not be surprised to find that those are ecrevisses, or

crayfish. Probably boiled and served with vinegar...

Adamantius

Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 10:43:44 -0500

From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for Crab recipes

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Also sprach DeeWolff at aol.com:

> So, Am I right in discovering that there a few crab recipes available

> in period (2 that I know of)??

> Have we no crab cakes or in a coffin, or with rice?? I was hoping to do

> something other than the familiar...

> Andrea

There don't seem to be too many of them. You've got the Harleian MS

recipe (which basically says to boil them and serve with vinegar),

and one or two others, essentially identical. Then you've got the

dressed crab in the Proper Neue (or is it Neue Proper?) Boke of

Cokery, which involves picking the meat out of the shell, seasoning

it with vinegar, and maybe some butter (I forget, offhand), and

packing it back into the shell.

Chiquart has a stuffed crayfish tail which calls for the chopped,

cooked meat to be seasoned (vinegar?) and chopped parsley added,

stuffed back into two of the tail shells, like a sandwich, and fried

in oil. I'd be a little concerned about the lack of any binder to the

stuffing. Maybe you have to tie the shells together.

You said you were looking for something to bulk out the crab. I

think, if I were you, I'd do a blomanger of fish and just use

crabmeat, maybe garnishing with a smaller percentage of crab shells

so people know what they're getting into (Hint:

PRE...COOK..THE...RICE...!!!).

Are you thinking of doing blue crabs on the hoof, as it were, or just

getting hold of processed crabmeat?

Adamantius

Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 10:21:02 -0500

From: Daniel Myers <edouard at medievalcookery.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for Crab recipes

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Monday, January 12, 2004, at 10:08 AM, Olwen the Odd wrote:

>> How about this one?

>> "Two Fifteenth-Century Cookery-Books", HARLEIAN MS. 279 (ab. 1430),

>> & HARL. MS. 4016 (ab. 1450)

>> Vyaunde de cyprys in lente. Take gode thikke Mylke of Almaundys, & do

>> it on a potte; & nyme the Fleysshe of gode Crabbys, & gode Samoun, &

>> bray it smal, & tempere yt vppe with the forsayd mylke; boyle it, an

>> lye it with floure of Rys or Amyndoun, an make it chargeaunt; when it

>> ys y-boylid, do ther-to whyte Sugre, a gode quantyte of whyte Vernage

>> Pime with the wyne, Pome-garnade. Whan it is y-dressyd, straw a-boue

>> the grayne of Pome-garnade.

> This sounds good! I am unclear about what the word "chargeaunt"

> means. Anyone know?

"Chargeaunt" means thick, as compared to "Stonding" which shows up in

similar context and which I interpret to mean "like mostly set plaster".

- Doc

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Edouard Halidai (Daniel Myers)

Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 22:45:44 -0700

From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at jeffnet.org>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Frog legs

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> So, how is this coming along? I assume you haven't done this feast yet.

> Are you really going to serve frog legs at a feast? Aren't they rather

> expensive? They seem to be in restaurants. Or are you combining this with

> a children's activity and sending the kids down to the creek with nets?

Stranger things have happened, Stefan. There used to be a small Summits

event held at a site that was on one of the feeder creeks of the Umpqua

river. In the morning, someone would march down to the creek with the kids,

a couple of crawdad traps, and a little bait (not the kids!). Throw the

traps in, go watch the tourney. In the late afternoon, go back down, all of

the kids in tow, get the traps, and haul them in. They'd be put on to boil

while people were bringing their feast gear in, etc. I remember one year

they had fresh bread baked on the hearth of the fireplace (large open

shelter), fresh butter (most of the churning done by my oldest daughter),

assorted and sundry potluck contributions, and fresh crawfish. Oh man, it

was good! With the possible exception for my son, who had helped catch the

crawfish, and suddenly freaked out when faced with eating one! (Stephen was

about 5 at the time, so he can be forgiven! ;-)

'Lainie

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 00:34:20 -0800

From: David Friedman <ddfr at daviddfriedman.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Intro from new person and my first quest for

the perfect recipe...

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> Back to my current dilemma of King Crab legs... how do i serve them if

> i want to prepare them period? Is there any dishes for shell fish or

> any other rich seafood that I can incorporate them?

Le Menagier has some lobster (or crayfish) recipes:

LOBSTER [or crayfish, same word (JH)] SOUP. Put your lobsters on to

boil, and when they are boiled, let them be shelled as if they were

to be eaten, and remove the bad parts, then have almonds peeled and

ground, mixed with pea water passed through the sieve, and browned

bread or breadcrumbs moistened in pea water, ground and sieved, then

have ginger, cinnamon, grain and clove: grind and put all in a pot,

with a little vinegar and boil together, then pour into bowls, and in

each bowl should be put the lobsters fried in oil and other fried

fish.

Meat Tiles. Take cooked freshwater crayfish (also means

lobsters:trans.), and remove the meat from the tails: and the

surplus, that is to say the shells and body, grind for a very long

time; and after that, have unpeeled almonds, and let them be cleaned

and washed in hot water like peas, and with their skins let them be

ground up with what I have said, and with this grind bread crumbs

browned on the grill. Now you must have, cooked in water, in wine and

in salt, capons, chicks and hens cut raw into quarters, or veal cut

into pieces, and with the liquid from this cooking you must moisten

and mix that which you have ground up, then put through the sieve:

then ginger, cinnamon, clove and long pepper moistened with verjuice

without vinegar, then boil it all together. Now your meat must be

cooked in pig fat in pieces or quarters, and arrange your meat in the

bowls and put the broth over it, and on the broth, in each bowl, four

or five lobster (or crayfish) tails and sugar sprinkled over them.

David/Cariadoc

www.daviddfriedman.com

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 08:29:45 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Crab recipe was Intro from new person and my

first quest for the perfect recipe...

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

//To dresse a Crabe. Fyrste take awaye all the legges and the heades,

and then take all the fysh out of the shelle, and make the shell as

cleane as ye canne, and putte the meate into a dysche, and butter it

uppon a chafyng dysche of coles and putte therto synamon and suger and a

lytle vyneger, and when ye haue chafed it and seasoned it, then putte

the meate in the shelle agayne and bruse the heades, and set them upon

the dysche syde and serue it.

This can be found at

http://homepage.univie.ac.at/thomas.gloning/tx/bookecok.htm

The book that it is from is a favorite of mine. A Proper Newe Booke of Cokerye

was first published in 1545. This is from the undated (circa 1557)

edition.

I am not sure about trying to restuff all 10 pounds of the crab back

into the legs of the king crab, but maybe one or two could be done.

Johnnae llyn Lewis

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 09:28:53 -0500

From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Crab recipe was Intro from new person and my

first quest for the perfect recipe...

To: grizly at mindspring.com, Cooks within the SCA

<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I wasn't sure about restuffing legs that had been frozen either.

But certainly the bodies would make great containers.

This jogged my memory as to where I had seen pictures of crab being

done. http://www.historicfood.com/Farced%20crab.htm

Ivan of course has Farced Crab up on his website. It's from Robert May.

Johnnae

-----Original Message-----

> <<<<//To dresse a Crabe. Fyrste take awaye all the legges and the heades,

> and then take all the fysh out of the shelle, and make the shell as

> cleane as ye canne, and putte the meate into a dysche, and butter it

> uppon a chafyng dysche of coles and putte therto synamon and suger and a

> lytle vyneger, and when ye haue chafed it and seasoned it, then putte

> the meate in the shelle agayne and bruse the heades, and set them upon

> the dysche syde and serue it.snipped

> I am not sure about trying to restuff all 10 pounds of the crab back

> into the legs of the king crab, but maybe one or two could be done. Johnnae

> ****

> If you could find a King Crab back shell, this could be a really spectacular

> presentation. Cleaned really well, it would make a decent sized serving

> dish/platter for the crab dyshe above. Prolly need more than one

> for the 10 pound cluster of legs if you use them all.

> niccolo difrancesco

Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2008 07:48:40 -0700

From: edoard at medievalcookery.com

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] scallops

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

-------- Original Message --------

From: Stefan li Rous

<<< A quick search in the Florilegium does turn up a number of period

recipes for scallops, but at the price of scallops I'm not sure I'd

do the ones that have you mincing or grinding up the scallops. Might

as well use a cheaper fish for that.

I wonder if scallops are another of those foods, like lobster, which

have done a flip-flop from being poor people's food to being

expensive delicacies for the more well off. >>>

It's hard to tell if it's a case of a change in preferences, or if they

lumped scallops in with other shellfish, or if they just didn't have

many ways of preparing scallops.

The cookbook search yields 3 period "recipes" for scallops out of 25

cookbooks. Not much. Interestingly enough, they're all French.

Scallops in gravy or cooked in water, with pepper and ginger.

[Enseignements]

SCALLOPS. Note that scallops which are heaped up and hold together in a

pile without scattering or leaving, and are red and of lively colour,

are fresh: and those which do not hold together and are separate and of

dull or dead colour, are from an old catch. Pick them out, then wash

thoroughly in two or three good hot waters, and then do it again in cold

water, then dry on a towel briefly at the fire, and fry in oil with

cooked onions, and then sprinkle with spices and eat with almost clear

leaves, wheat sprouts or sorrel sprouts or leaves of (all-heal?,

sainfoin?) or (wild chicory?, barberry?).

[Le Menagier de Paris]

Scallops. Pick them over well, scald and wash them, brown them in oil

with chopped onions and Spice Powder, and eat them with good White

Garlic [Sauce].

[Le Viandier de Taillevent]

Hmmm... I think I'll try that last one.

- Doc

Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:07:07 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] scallops

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I took a quick look for English recipes.

Most references in EEBO-TCP were to armoury and badges of office or to

the badges of St. James of Compostella pilgrims.

Ashmole notes that the French Knights of the Order of St. Michael wore

them as in "having its Cape embroidered with Gold, and the border of the

Robe interwoven with Scallops of Gold..."

Also scallops of lace are mentioned.

(Several mentions of scallops being listed among the shellfish to be

found in North America.)

Checked Florio's A vvorlde of wordes, 1598

where it reads:

* Cappe, clokes, spanish clokes, or capes, all manner of shell-fish,

as oysters, cockles, muscles, or scallops.

* Cappelong?e, a kinde of long skallops or cockles.

Testac?i animali,

* all manner of hard shell fishes as oysters and scallops.

Randle Holme in The academy of armory includes them under heraldry but

also lists them under Bills of Fare

where they appear in a second course.

Other Bills of Fare for every Season in the Year, also how to set forth

Meat in Order accordingly.

12. Sturgeon, Collar of Beef, Turbut, Pickled Puffins, Scallops,

Cockles, Muscles, Sprawns, Shrimps, Crabs, Tortoise, Crawfish, Snails.

He also includes this mention for balts--

Balts, those to fry are compounded ,..... old Cheese, Sugar Currans,

made into paste: .... little Pasties, Toasts, Scallops and such like,

are made for Garnishing: see Ransoles.

Those are later defined as:

Ransoles, are kind of small Balls rolled up in fine Past made of these

compositions, Beet leaves beaten, Sweetbreads minced, Marrow, Herbs,

Raisins, Dates, Naple Bisket grated and made in a paste.

MED lists them under *scalop but the quotations listed are for the

device or design and not as food.*

OED list quotes as early as 14th century.

* *C. 1440* /Promp. Parv./ 442/2 Scalop, fysche [/Winch. MS/. Scalap].

* *1530* Palsgr. 265/2 Scaloppe a fysshe.

* *1601* Holland /Pliny/ xi. li. I. 353 The great Scallops make a

certaine noise as they shoot out of the water.

Ok here is a quote from a cookery book--

*1661* Rabisha /Cookery Dissected/ 125 First boyl your Scollups, then

take them out of the shells and wash them.

So there should be recipes in Rabisha.I looked but Rabish is not indexed

so it's not a quick look. (My edition is not the same as the one used by

OED either.)

On the whole I suspect that they were included in recipes under the

general term of shellfish and the like. The French with more access

to the famous scallops of Normandy might have developed more recipes.

One source I came across asserted that "France is by far the largest

European outlet for scallops with over 100,000t consumed per year..."

so they remain as a major source there.

Johnnae

Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:49:19 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] scallops

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Oct 3, 2008, at 1:07 PM, Johnna Holloway wrote:

<<< I took a quick look for English recipes.

Most references in EEBO-TCP were to armoury and badges of office or

to the badges of St. James of Compostella pilgrims.

Ashmole notes that the French Knights of the Order of St. Michael wore

them as in "having its Cape embroidered with Gold, and the border of

the Robe interwoven with Scallops of Gold..."

Also scallops of lace are mentioned.

(Several mentions of scallops being listed among the shellfish to be

found in North America.) >>>

At the risk of overstating the obvious, it might be worth noting that

in most of the US, what we actually are getting is the sliced or whole

adductor muscle that has been carefully removed from the shellfish we

know as the scallop. The entire beastie is edible, except for the

shell, and the period recipes are presumably speaking of the whole

animal, as are many recipes from outside the US...

Adamantius (who likes 'em seared with just a little Kosher salt in an

almost-red-hot iron skillet)

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 21:24:26 +0200

From: " Ana Vald?s " <agora158 at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] scallops

To: ahrenshav at yahoo.com, "Cooks within the SCA"

<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I have eaten the scallops in Santiago de Compostela, the place most related

to the scallops, the "shells" given to the pilgrims as a proof of their

pilgrimage. (I was a fake pilgrim, flew to Santiago as a part of an

International writer's crew). They are called "vieyras" and they are eaten

very simply, five minutes in the pan, a bit of parsley and a lot of butter and

garlic. And salt and peppar of course :)

Delicious!

Ana

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 17:50:05 -0500

From: "Daniel & Elizabeth Phelps" <dephelps at embarqmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] scallops

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

If I might suggest a book, see if you can find "the Scallop, Studies of a

shell and its influences on humankind." Published in London by the Shell

Transport and Trading Company 1957. Eight Authors. The chapters are Shell:

a Word's Pedigree, The Living Scollop, A Symbol of Ancient Times, The Badge

of St. James, The Cradle of Venus, Escollops in Armory, An Excursion into

the Americas and The Scollop at the Table.

Daniel

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 18:10:36 -0400

From: "tudorpot at gmail.com" <tudorpot at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] scallops

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Oct 3, 2008, at 11:07 AM, S CLEMENGER wrote:

<<< I make scallops occasionally, but they're really expensive, this

far inland. >>>

I have been surprised to find scallops and other seafood quite cheap

at the Asian grocery stores in Toronto. If you have a large Asian

community you might find a similar store with great ingredients.

Freda

Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 01:22:54 +0000 (GMT)

From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] scallops

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Two recipes from Marx Rumpolt (may some kind soul translate them):

Von grossen Muscheln.

Nimb die Muschel/wasch sie sauber au?/vnnd leg sie auff ein Ro?t/

vnnd brat sie/richt sie fein zu wie Austern/oder setz sie auff in

Wasser/vnd gibs trucken auff ein Tisch mit Pfeffer

vnd mit Saltz/oder mit saurer

Dotterbrueh.

Von kleinen schwartzen Muscheln.

Setz sie auff in Wasser/vnd la? ein Sudt auffthun/so thun

sie sich selber auff/wenn du sie wilt anrichten/so thu sie mit

einem Faumloeffel herau?/richt sie in die Schuessel an/geu?

ein saure Brueh/die mit Eyerdottern/Essig/frischer Butter/

vnd gruenen Kraeutern gemacht ist/darueber/so werden sie gut

vnd wolgeschmack.

I wonder, if all those beautiful 16th century fishbooks include culinary aspects:

The fishbook of Pierre Belon (1553) is online at:

http://imgbase-scd-ulp.u-strasbg.fr/displayimage.php?album=17&;pos=1

Scallops are mentioned here, e.g.:

http://imgbase-scd-ulp.u-strasbg.fr/displayimage.php?album=17&;pos=429

Then, there is Aldrovandi, in a late 1613 edition:

http://imgbase-scd-ulp.u-strasbg.fr/displayimage.php?album=265&;pos=0

There is also Gesner:

http://resolver.sub.uni-goettingen.de/purl?PPN479894493

The chapter on scallops:

http://gdz-srv1.sub.uni-goettingen.de/content/PPN479894493/800/0/00000282.jpg

Are there other early fishbooks online?

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 20:42:12 -0700 (PDT)

From: "Cat ." <tgrcat2001 at yahoo.com>

Subject: [Sca-cooks] Subject: scallops

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

HI, Gwen Cat here, in her guise as Rumpolt pusher/generic kind soul.

<<< Von grossen Muscheln.

Nimb die Muschel/wasch sie sauber au?/vnnd leg sie auff ein Ro?t/

vnnd brat sie/richt sie fein zu wie Austern/oder setz sie auff in

Wasser/vnd gibs trucken auff ein Tisch mit Pfeffer

vnd mit Saltz/oder mit saurer Dotterbrueh. >>>

Of large shells (shellfish maybe scallops)

take the shells/ wash them out clean/ and lay them on a rack

and roast them/ prepare them nicely like oysters, or set them to in

water/ and give (them) dry onto the table with pepper

and with salt/ or with sour

yolkbroth

<<< Von kleinen schwartzen Muscheln.

Setz sie auff in Wasser/vnd la? ein Sudt auffthun/so thun

sie sich selber auff/wenn du sie wilt anrichten/so thu sie mit

einem Faumloeffel herau?/richt sie in die Schuessel an/geu?

ein saure Brueh/die mit Eyerdottern/Essig/frischer Butter/

vnd gruenen Kraeutern gemacht ist/darueber/so werden sie gut

vnd wolgeschmack. >>>

Of small black shells (I would guess mussles here)

Set them to in water/ and let them come to a boil/ so they

open themselves up/ when you wish to prepare them/ so put (take) them

with a slotted spoon (I think) out/ put them in a bowl/ pour

a sour broth/ that is with eggyolks/ vinegar/ fresh butter/

and green herbs made/ thereover/ so they become good

and welltasting

Rough, on the fly, on my way to bed after 2 hours of making pawprint steppingstones out of concrete.

Purrrr

Catrin von Berlin called Gwen Cat

Scola Metallorum and Caerthe, Outlands

Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 11:03:20 -0400

From: "Nick Sasso" <grizly at mindspring.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] scallops

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

-----Original Message-----

I know we are lucky out here in the PNW to have access to Seafood at

a much lower cost and fresher quality but it worth asking your Fish

Monger about getting in Fresh or Fresh Frozen Scallops with out the

chemical they soak them in.

The texture and taste are totally different.

Especially when searing them as the natural sugar of the scallop

comes out and caramelizes to a delicious sweet goodness. > > > > > > >

And the mositure released from the wet packed scallops will defeat the sear,

causing me to wayyyy overcook to get even a light crusting.

niccolo difrancesco

Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 07:50:23 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] scallops

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Apr 19, 2009, at 3:16 AM, Stefan li Rous wrote:

On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 8:44 PM, S CLEMENGER <sclemenger at msn.com>

wrote:

Should those be "wet" scallops, or dry ones? Or does it matter?

--Maire >>>

What are "dry" scallops? Are these actually dried scallop pieces

which you have to rehydrate before using? Or are these actually

something else, like the fake crabmeat?

==========

For US marketing, scallops are generally processed on board ship, and

the only part that makes it to shore and your fish market, supermarket

or local restaurant are the trimmed adductor muscle of a much larger

and more complex shellfish. In most of the civilized world, as these

things are measured, this is not the case.

Frequently, the scallop meat is treated with some chemical (exactly

what escapes me) that causes them to absorb water, which allegedly

keeps them fresh longer, improves their flavor and texture, and

generally fights the good fight. Allegedly. In reality what it does is

increase the weight of an item sold by the pound at the expense of

flavor and texture. Such scallops are known as wet-packed or wet

scallops. For some applications, such as sauteing and grilling, where

the uncoated scallop is expected to brown, it's a lot more difficult

to do this without overcooking it, because the scallop keeps leaking

moisture all over the pan or grill, creating a blanket of steam and

preventing the sweet meat from really touching the hot surface properly.

AFAIK, all frozen scallops are wet-packed. However, aficionados of

fresh scallops prefer dry-packed scallops. They don't keep as well,

and are sometimes a bit smaller, but of course it's nice to know when

your fish is going bad, they taste better when fresh, and they respond

better to those certain types of cooking.

<<< The only ones I remember seeing were frozen or fresh in plastic

wrapped trays. Usually I see larger ones, inch and a half in

diameter? which are sea scallops and smaller, cheaper ones about an

inch in diameter called "bay scallops". >>>

Under the right circumstances, the best bay scallops, while generally

smaller, are neither cheaper nor of any lesser quality (in fact the

contrary) than sea scallops. Probably my first exposure to dry-packed

scallops was on my ill-fated single day working at the Grand Central

Oyster Bar, when the executive chef handed me a pan with a few sauteed

bay scallops left in it after filling a plate, and said, "Here, taste

that." I did, and asked why he had added so much honey to them, and if

it was to facilitate browning. He said he had added salt and clarified

butter; that's just what scallops taste like.

Adamantius

Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 08:54:43 -0500

From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] scallops

To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

<<< The only ones I remember seeing were frozen or fresh in plastic wrapped

trays. Usually I see larger ones, inch and a half in diameter? which are

sea scallops and smaller, cheaper ones about an inch in diameter called

"bay scallops".

Stefan >>>

It the "bay scallops" you saw were cheaper than the large scallops, then

they were probably fakes punched out of the larger Atlantic scallops. A

true Bay scallop, Argopecten irridians, is a small scallop that grows in

protected waters primarily along the Altantic coast and off shore islands.

The species is in general decline, probably due to a decline in eel grass,

and the US harvest has been strictly controlled for decades, thus the real

Bay scallop is expensive. It also has superior texture and a sweet flavor

that make it worth the price.

Bear

Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 19:42:13 +0200

From: Ana Vald?s <agora158 at gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] scallops

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I buy often scallops imported from the US or from Spain/France. The scallops

are from Galicia and they are called "vieyras" in Galician. In France they

are called "coquilles St Jacques", because the shell was given to the

pilgrims going to Santiago de Compostela in the Middle Ages, to pray at the

shrine of the apostle Jacob, who the legend says arrive to Galicia in a

raft, several hundred of years after he died in Judea.

It's very seldom they are sold fresh here. A cook gave me a good hint, when

you defreeze them put them over a piece of tissue or a sponge or thick paper,

to dry them out. In that way they lose their water before they hit the pan.

Ana

http://anavaldes.wordpress.com

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Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 18:44:43 -0400

From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] scallops

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Apr 19, 2009, at 4:19 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:

<<< Ohhhh! Thank you. Once again, I asked what I thought was likely to

be a simple, even a "why'd he ask that" kinda question, and learned

a whole lot more.

Among other things this is a reminder that people outside the US may

see things differently, because what they see is different. So for

those outside the US, what do the scallops sold where you are look

like? Are they not whitish, round disks of seafood flesh without

really any markings or external texture? >>>

Well, if you look closely enough at those unmarked white disks, you'll

actually see different shades from ivory to yellow to pinkish, and

usually at least two distinct muscle structures (the main adductor

muscle and the tougher "strap").

But in most countries outside the US (even though I don't live in any

of them), I gather scallops come whole, either alive in the shell, or

on ice on the half shell, but otherwise more or less anatomically

correct. Like oysters, scallops have a flat shell on one side and a

concave/convex half on the other side, so it behooves the fish market

to conserve juices by storing it flat-side up, so that's the shell

they normally remove, if they're doing it that way.

Where I live, they can be gotten in completely shelled form, on the

hoof, as it were, and in opened shells. I don't often see them

specifically advertised as dry-pack, but if they're in the shell, they

probably are, and if alive, definitely.

<<< I guess I'm going to have to look closer at the scallops, even if I

don't buy them, and see if I can find some of these "dry-packed"

ones. I'm not sure how I would know which were packed how, since

they are both likely to be in the plastic wrapped foam trays with

the plastic warp. I assume both need to be frozen or refrigerated,

so they will be in the refrigerator/freezer cases. >>>

Ideally, they'll be on a bed of ice, which keeps them colder than your

fridge, or the market's, but not cold enough for ice crystals to form.

If they're frozen, they are probably what is called IQF, which stands

for Individually Quick Frozen, which involves dipping the beastie in

an ultra-cold but agitated, not-quite-frozen-yet water bath, which

freezes onto the surface, forming a protective glaze of ice before the

actual piece of seafood freezes. It's done a lot with shrimp, too.

<<< Yes, "cheaper" doesn't equate to "cheap". I'll have to put them, and

Huette's recipe on my "when I get a job" list. At Sam's they've been

about $8/pound to $11/pound, bay to ocean, I think. That is with

almost no waste, unlike say crawfish. >>>

Apart from the dread water weight loss, that is, and that can be

significant, which is just one of the several reasons for throwing a

fit about the wet-packed scallops. And, of course, another is that the

liquid lost is a lot of the sugars that contribute to the flavor of

the scallop, and also its capacity for browning.

<<< The few I've had I did consider rather bland, like most shrimp. >>>

Good, fresh scallops can appear almost shockingly sweet -- at least as

much so as real, fresh lobster, say -- to one not used to them. I

doubt it would be a problem for you or anyone else with sugar issues,

but they do contain something like .7 grams of carbohydrates per

ounce. As I said, I remember getting exceptionally fresh bay scallops

at the Grand Central Oyster Bar, which is, as the name implies, an

oyster bar and restaurant in New York's Grand Central Station (one

whose cooking is just okay, nothing great, but whose seafood buyer is

enough of a genius to regularly turn down job offers in the six

figures to work for large Tokyo sushi chains) and thinking they were

coated with honey. I wasn't kidding.

Adamantius

Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 23:12:46 -0400

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] scallops

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Here's a recipe from Le Menagier for them. Just in case anyone

wanted a medieval dish for them.

This is an excerpt from *Le Menagier de Paris*

(France, 1393 - Janet Hinson, trans.)

The original source can be found at David Friedman's website

<http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Cookbooks/Menagier/Menagier.html>;