Title: carob-msg
Subject: Use of carob in period.
Author: Edited by Mark S. Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: candy, carob, sugar, sweet, chocolate, medieval

carob-msg - 10/21/14

Use of carob in period.

NOTE: See also the files: sugar-msg, honey-msg, desserts-msg, candy-msg, sotelties-msg, 3-Span-Sweets-art, 14C-Sweets-art.

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 03:30:25 -0500 (EST)
From: <DianaFiona at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Re- Beans in a Period Recip

<< A note in the text describes "carob-beans" as "Saint John's bread, Ceratonia Siliqua."  I don't have much experience in medieval cooking, but perhaps this is what is referred to in medieval recipes calling for beans.
 
 	Lord Henry Percivale Kempe
  >>

      I wouldn't think it's likely--for one thing there are too many other
sources that discuss beans which tell us that they are the type we are more familiar with. Specifically, the beans used in Europe before Columbus were lentils, favas, and, at least to some extent, garbanzos (Chickpeas). This is the first reference I've seen to carob being used by Europeans--thanks!

     But another reason is that the carob "beans" grow on a large tree--it
*is* leguminous, I believe, rather like the honey locust tree around
here--that is too cold sensitive to grow in most of Europe, if I recall
correctly. I'd checked it out a bit when I ran across seeds or plants in one of the more exotic seed catalogs I'd found, and was disapointed to find that it wouldn't grow here. Too bad--carob tastes great, if you don't expect it to be chocolate! ;-)

     Ldy Diana
Vulpine Reach,Meridies 

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:04:13 -0600
From: khkeeler <kkeeler at unlinfo.unl.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Re- Beans in a Period Recip

DianaFiona at aol.com wrote:
> the first reference I've seen to carob being used by Europeans--thanks!

Carob is mentioned in the Dioscorides' herbal (AD 64 and the most
important medicinal herbal across all of Period)

  Carob is "native to the Mediterranean region, ...its common name, St.
John's bread, is comes from the fact that it constituted the "locust" on which John the Baptist fed. In ancient times carob seeds were used as
weights for small quantities of of precious substances such as gold
because they are extremely uniform in size.  Our modern unit the carat,
used for gold and jewels, is a reflection of this former use. 
Traditionally carob pods were gathered from wild trees and the sweet
mesocarp pulp was choosed from the endocarp surrounding the seeds. The
seeds themselves have been used to make a coffeelike beverage." BB
Simpson and MC Ogorzaly Economic Botany 2nd ed 1995, p. 224.

This sounds like it wasn't a "bean", but Simpson and Ogorzaly isn't
focused on the Middle Ages the way we are so there may be more to the
story.

Agnes
Mag Mor, Calontir

Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:02:33 -0400
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: Re: SC - murri info now carob/ dibs question repost

> Is there documentation for use of carob in medieval European cooking?
>
>Brangwayna

"Wine is also made from the Syrian carob, and from pears and all kinds of
apples (one from pomegranates is called rhoites) as also from cornels,
medlars, service berries, dried mulberries and fir-cones; the last are
soaked in must before being pressed, but the juice of the preceding fruits
is sweet of itself..." Pliny the Elder, Natural History, Book XIV, section
XIX, pp. 255-257.

Carob is mentioned in Tacuinam Sanitatis.

Cindy/Sincgiefu

Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 21:47:07 -0500 
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Chocolate documentation?

> The only place I have seen this claim made is in Fabulous Feasts.  Do we
> have any evidence for the use of Carob, St John's Bread , or Manna (or the 
> equation of carob with the other two names) in the middle ages other than
> Fab Feasts?
> 
> Brangwayna Morgan

In one of Platina's recipes for peas, peas are boiled in water with carob,
before being sautÈed with salt pork and spiced with verjuice or must or
spices.  Platina's not handy at the minute, so I don't have an exact quote..

Bear

Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 00:11:20 -0400
From: "Bethany Public Library" <betpulib at ptdprolog.net>
Subject: Subject: SC - Carob - OOP

I'm not so sure it can't be traced back----if not exactly, at least it's
usage. There is a recipe in Platina that calls for carob, and the Italian
cuisine borrows a lot from the arabic.

Aoife
            _______________________________________
Anahita wrote:
Below is something authentic and historical - but not documented
before 1601 to my knowledge:

From Tess Mallos, "The Complete Middle East Cookbook" (1979)
Chapter on Lebanon/Syria/Jordan
p. 181:
Dibs, carob syrup, is also very much a part of the cuisine. It is
mixed with tahini [thin sesame paste] and spread on khoubiz [flat
bread or pita].

Think of it as Middle Eastern Nutella :-) Not "period", but someone
was wondering what to do with carob...

Anahita al-shazhiyya

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris	carob-msg	 of