confctny-boxs-msg – 6/27/07
Period confectionary boxes.
NOTE: See also the files: marzipan-msg, marmalades-msg, pastries-msg, comfits-msg, jellied-milk-msg, shortbread-msg, sugar-paste-msg, Roses-a-Sugar-art, Sgr-a-Cnftns-art, sugar-msg.
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NOTICE -
This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.
This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org
I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.
The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.
Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).
Thank you,
Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous
Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:59:32 +0200
From: Volker Bach <carlton_bach at yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] marzipan boxes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Am Samstag, 10. September 2005 07:42 schrieb Stefan li Rous:
> Johnnae mentioned:
>> I was doing an image search today and came across this one
>> http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pinfo?Object=45891+0+none
>>
>> It's too good to pass up and it's easy to get to since it's in the
>> National Gallery of Art. There are a number of detail images too.
>>
>> Still Life with Sweets and Pottery, 1627 by Juan van der Hamen
>>
>> Doughnuts anyone?
>
> The review of the painting mentioned marzipan boxes. Which ones are
> these? The round, very thin ones with tops? To me, those look very
> much like the boxes you can buy in the hobby stores made out of very
> thin wood. They look more like these in the painting are made of thin
> wood, not marzipan. Or by "marzipan boxes" is the reviewer talking
> about boxes made to hold marzipan items rather than that the boxes
> are made of marzipan?
>
> If the latter, what makes these particular boxes "marzipan boxes"? Do
> we have other period (or close to period) texts which mention
> "marzipan boxes"?
I don't know why they are called 'marzipan boxes' specifically in English, but
they are a common feature of late period still lives and often hold sweets of
various description. Even 'Confect', which, according to de Rontzier, is a
kind of chunky, supersweet jam. I've used them for the purpose and it works,
most of the time.
German texts usually refer to them as 'Spanschachteln' (wood shavings boxes)
for the material they are made of, or, if painted, 'Minnekästchen' (courtly
love boxes) because they used to be used for holding love token gifts.
Sometimes they are also called 'Konfektschachteln' (confit boxes).
As an aside, today they are most familiar here because the better kind of
Camembert comes in them. More than one person who got one from me reacted
with a startled "But I don't like mouldy cheese" look.
Giano
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:24:11 -0400
From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Marzipan Boxes
To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Stefan wrote, regarding the online painting:
> The review of the painting mentioned marzipan boxes. Which ones are
> these? The round, very thin ones with tops? To me, those look very
> much like the boxes you can buy in the hobby stores made out of very
> thin wood. They look more like these in the painting are made of thin
> wood, not marzipan. Or by "marzipan boxes" is the reviewer talking
> about boxes made to hold marzipan items rather than that the boxes
> are made of marzipan?
The boxes in the painting are wood and yes, they are pretty close to the
"Amish" boxes one can find in hobby and craft stores. The reviewer
probably means that the box would hold marzipan. Usually the reference is
to holding quiddony/quince paste/cotinignac, etc., or one of the "solid"
jellies.
> If the latter, what makes these particular boxes "marzipan boxes"? Do
> we have other period (or close to period) texts which mention
> "marzipan boxes"?
I don't recall seeing the term "marzipan box" but references may well have
said something like "and keep them in boxes ..." I usually have seen that
reference to the fruit pastes which keep for months. Would others agree
with my "off the cuff" supposition that marzipan items were made to be
eaten rather soon as compared to the fruit pastes? Perhaps the reviewer
extrapolated modern packaging use back to the 1600s??
Alys Katharine
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 15:01:13 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] marzipan boxes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
I rather suspect that someplace in that long, long list of printed references
and source materials, an art historian mentioned marzipan boxes and that
is why the National Gallery of Art latched upon that phrase.
They look like preserve boxes to me also.
Johnnae
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 10:57:54 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] sweetmeat boxes was marzipan boxes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?coll_keywords=still+life
+with+sweetmeats&submit.x=8&submit.y=8
shows a Still Life with Sweetmeats
Note the contents of the boxes which are open to display.
Click on the image to get it to display larger.
I have seen this identified as another by Juan van der Hamen, but it's
Listed here as anonymous.
It's also at http://www.davidrumsey.com/amico/amico967048-21370.html
Johnnae
> http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pinfo?Object=45891+0+none
Still Life with Sweets and Pottery, 1627 by Juan van der Hamen
Johnnae
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 12:31:48 -0500
From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fruit Paste - Boxes!
To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Greetings! Two people mentioned the lack of "period" fruit paste boxes.
Some of the craft stores (such as Michael's) sell thin wooden boxes that
look very period. They are usually round or oval and look like what I've
known as "Amish boxes". They come with lids and are unpainted. From what
I've seen in Dutch paintings of pastes in boxes, these are virtually
identical although they may be less sturdy than the painted ones seem to
be. The modern ones are thin wood which is wrapped around and then the end
is tucked into the section it's overlapping. Sometimes a small metal
(stud?) is used. They aren't particularly cheap and the bigger ones become
increasingly more expensive ($10?) but should work if you want something
for display.
Alys Katharine
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 19:06:26 +0000
From: "Holly Stockley" <hollyvandenberg at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fruit Paste - Boxes!
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
I've actually used those. Michael's has had the 4" ones on sale for real
cheap. But I've gotten an off flavor, and it makes me worry a little about
hot sugar paste in contact with a non-foodsafe adhesive. Anybody know
anything about woodworking adhesives in these sorts of situations?
Femke
> Some of the craft stores (such as Michael's) sell thin wooden boxes that
> look very period. They are usually round or oval and look like what I've
> known as "Amish boxes".
> Alys Katharine
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:40:24 -0800
From: Mark Hendershott <crimlaw at jeffnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fruit Paste - Boxes!
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> I've actually used those. Michael's has had the 4" ones on sale for real
> cheap. But I've gotten an off flavor, and it makes me worry a little about
> hot sugar paste in contact with a non-foodsafe adhesive. Anybody know
> anything about woodworking adhesives in these sorts of situations?
>
> Femke
Fully cured adhesives commonly used for wood should not be big
problem. A food safe coating inside should ease the problem as well
as aid in release of the product. Olive or mineral oil would get the
job done I would think. I'd sand lightly first in case the
manufacturer used something that is giving you the taste.
Simon Sinneghe
Briaroak, Summits, An Tir
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:49:27 -0800
From: Mark Hendershott <crimlaw at jeffnet.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Michael's boxes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Amending my earlier response. A brief session with "The Google"
suggests that non-formaldehyde glues commonly available to home
woodworkers are safe. Considering that Michael's almost certainly
imports those boxes, who knows what was used.
Simon
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 13:33:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Carole Smith <renaissancespirit2 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fruit Paste - Boxes!
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Unfinished wood can give an off taste to food that is contained in
it. After it's been used a bit that issue will go away because the
pores of the wood take up some of the food flavor. This isn't
helpful in the short term, however.
If the inside of the wood box was first coated with a thin layer
of parafin, I suspect that would work just fine and not add any
flavor, assuming that the fruit paste was warm rather than hot when
put in the box.
Cordelia Toser
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 17:13:42 -0700
From: "Caointiarn" <caointiarn1 at bresnan.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Fruit Paste...storage
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
> . So, uh, what do people recommend as "air tight containers"?
> Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
> the persona formerly known as Anahita
How about cookie tins? I get mine at the nearby "rescue mission" aka 2nd
hand/thrift store. I collect them for gifts, coz then the outside is
already pretty {decorated}. They clean out well, and with tight fitting
lids are pretty air-tight.
Caointiarn
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