Title: spits-msg
Subject: Spits for roasting meats.
Author: Edited by Mark S. Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: medieval, spit, rod, cook, firepit, roast meat, rotate

spits-msg - 12/6/17

Spits for roasting meats. Period and SCA. Methods of turning them.

NOTE: See also the files: whole-pig-msg, roast-chicken-msg, roast-meats-msg, roast-pork-msg, utensils-msg, ovens-msg, forks-msg, firepits-msg, camp-kitchens-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Period (Cooking) Pot Use
Date: 5 Jan 1995 14:05:48 -0500
Organization: Guest of MIT AI and LCS labs

Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.

Thomas the Tent-Peg of Bergental, amidst a fair quantity of
jokery, asked a real question that no one else has taken up,
so I thought I'd give it a try.

>Does anybody know how they cooked over an open fire in-Period?  I've
>tried cooking without an iron grate, but find it annoying...

<snip of lots of info on cooking on fires - see utensils-msg>

One word of advice: if you want a spit to roast meat on, you
want more than just a piece of iron to go through the meat and
across to supports.  You want it to have a system of little
knife-like stickers around one end, to hold the meat in place.
Otherwise, you will turn the spit inside the meat, while the
same (heaviest) side remains stubbornly toward the flame,
giving you a roast that is burned on one side and raw on the
other.

-- Angharad/Terry

Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:35:38 +1100 (EST)
From: Charles McCathieNevile <charlesn at sunrise.srl.rmit.edu.au>
Subject: SC - CHEAP spits

I have very sucessfully used a piece of hardwood about 2" square and 8'
long, sharpened at one end (I used a circular saw to sharpen it, but it
could be done properly. As a spit stand at each end it take a couple of
pieces of 1" hardwood, and a block of the spit wood. Cut one of the
1"pieces shorter, and sharpen an end of the other one (for easy pushing
into the ground. screw them to the 2" block, and place the spit between
them - it doesn't turn because they are all square. To turn it, lift it
off and rotate the desired amount. (this is the drawback - it requires
two people for a whole animal) To adjust the height, put a screw in the
top of each 1" piece, and use a bit of heavy cord. Alternatively, rest it
onto the block (this is as low as it can get...) and then add a couple of
chocks.

I have one spit made in this manner. I have set fire to a set of ends,
and broken an end, but the spit is fine. (I would like to make steel ends
- - a welder could do that. In the meantime I just rest it on a couple of logs.
But I have used the spit about 8 times, with very little appreciable
degradation of it - it has not caught fire, although once an assistant
cook left the beasty (a nice fat sheep) too low, and that had to be put
out with a bladder of wine.

Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:22:18 -0700
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: Re: medieval cooking setup

At 8:03 AM -0700 6/23/98, Anne-Marie Rousseau wrote:
>ok, heres the deal. We're doing 15th century re-creation. Not the SCA way
>of picking bits of this and that from all over, but trying really really
>hard to stick to 1470 Franco Flemish/Bruges...

and asked about primary soiurces for cooking of that period.

There is a picture in _Medieval Drawings_, M. W. Evans, Hamlyn Publishing
Group Ltd., 1969, of an illustration of Uzziah entertaining Acchior and the
elders to a banquet (from the Book of Judith), from Germany 1400-05.  There
are six people in snazzy "modern" (ie, time of the illustrator) clothes
sitting at a table outdoors on benches, with a tablecloth and fancy cups
and serving dishes.  In the foreground, a man or boy in servant's clothing
is holding one end of a long spit, straight except that his end has a maybe
6" section turned right-angle to the rest of it.  The far end of the spit
is resting on a thick forked stick stuck in the ground; near that end under
the spit is a fire (flames quite visible) with two chickens or something
similar spitted over the fire.  A gentleman (to judge by his clothes) is
poking the fire with a long stick.  The servant is sitting on the ground
with the spit at almost the level of his shoulder, watching the chickens
and presumably turning the spit; a serving dish sits on the ground next to
him, presumably waiting for the chickens.  It is a neat picture, and has
always suggested to me what Pennsic ought to look like if we could do it
perfectly.

Elizabeth of Dendermonde/Betty Cook

Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 01:09:50 -0500
From: Nick Sasso <grizly at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: SC - The Kitchen article

Jeff Gedney wrote: 
<<<SNIP>>>
> 
> > Animals were often cooked over the fire in the fireplace on spits.
> they were more frequently boiled, if the corpus of recipes I have seen
> are any indication
> (BTW Ras, I think a bed of wood coals would equate in the mind of a high
> school kid to "fire"... that is putting too fine a distinction here, don't you think?)
> 
> > Spits were long poles of wood on which an animal could be secured.
> metal, is more likely. a wooden spit can only be used a couple of times
> before they burn through 

When considering these two bits of information together, I suspect that
wooden spits were not as disposable as all that.  I have a motorized
spit for roasting up to 250 lb. animal on it.  It is an ash spit that is
quite reusable.  the man who built it has a spit that he has used a
dozen times without appreciable fire damage (6-8 hours of roasting per
session).  

By controlling the size of the bed of coals and banking, I keep the heat
restricted to an area roughly the size of the beast covering the pole. 
Less heat on wood and longer durability of spit.  This does not say that
iron was not used, only that my experience and observation indicates
that wood is durable in this application. (And the whole lamb is quite
divine!)

niccolo difrancesco

Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 19:41:31 -0500
From: david friedman <ddfr at best.com>
Subject: SC - Spits (was: The Kitchen article)

At 1:09 AM -0500 3/11/00, Nick Sasso wrote:
>Jeff Gedney wrote:
>  >
><<<SNIP>>>
>  >
>  > > Spits were long poles of wood on which an animal could be secured.
>  > metal, is more likely. a wooden spit can only be used a couple of times
>  > before they burn through
>
>When considering these two bits of information together, I suspect that
>wooden spits were not as disposable as all that.  I have a motorized
>spit for roasting up to 250 lb. animal on it.  It is an ash spit that is
>quite reusable.  the man who built it has a spit that he has used a
>dozen times without appreciable fire damage (6-8 hours of roasting per
>session).
>
>By controlling the size of the bed of coals and banking, I keep the heat
>restricted to an area roughly the size of the beast covering the pole.
>Less heat on wood and longer durability of spit.  This does not say that
>iron was not used, only that my experience and observation indicates
>that wood is durable in this application. (And the whole lamb is quite
>divine!)
>
>niccolo difrancesco

On that subject from Chiquart (_Du Fait de Cuisine_, 1420):

  And one should definitely not trust wooden spits, because they will 
rot and you could lose all your meat, but you should have one hundred 
and twenty iron spits which are strong and are thirteen feet in 
length; and there should be other spits, three dozen which are of the 
aforesaid length but not so thick, to roast poultry, little piglets, 
and river fowl. And also, four dozen little spits to do endoring and 
act as skewers.

Elizabeth/Betty Cook

Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 12:04:33 +0200
From: tgl at mailer.uni-marburg.de
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Glossary submission?

<< *in* a broch? That doesn't sound like a spit. Sounds like a low-sided
clay pot. >>

While the OED says that _broch_ also referred to large jugs ("1679
Blount Anc. Tenures 51 One iron Broch, which was a great Pot or Jug to
carry Liquid things."), the use of "in" in respect to spits is not
wholly unusual.

I had to comment on two recipes with "in einem spisse" (lit. 'in a
spit') in the Rheinfr=E4nkisches Kochbuch, 15th c., german. Looking if
this was an error or if I could keep it in the edition, I found that the
construction with "in" is found in several other languages, too

-- in Middle Low German texts ("in en ider spyt 4 stucke", lit. 'in each
spit four pieces')

-- in Italian recipes, _nello spiedo_ lit. 'in the spit', e.g. in
Maestro Martino, in the Anonimo Meridionale, see Bostr=F6m A31.3, A62.2

-- in French "en la broche" lit. 'in the spit' (e.g. in the Menagier)

-- and in Latin "in spitone" lit. 'in the spit', Cookbook of Jean de
Bockenheim, ed. Laurioux # 19, 22, 50.

Thus, as _broch_ seems to go back to French _broche_, the use of _in_ in
respect to _broch_ in an English text might be another piece of French
heritage.

Thomas
(The recipe again:
1594 Handmaide (Peachey p. 40) "To roste a Hare. First wash it in faire
water, then perboyle it and lay in cold water againe, then larde it, and
roste it in a broch. Then to make sauce for it, take red Vinigar, Salt,
Pepper, Ginger Cloves, Mace, and put them together. Then minse Apples,
and Onions, and frie them with a litle Sugar, and let them boyle wel
together, then baste it upon yor hare, and so serve it foorth".)

Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 10:51:07 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Glossary submission?

tgl at mailer.uni-marburg.de wrote:
> -- in French "en la broche" lit. 'in the spit' (e.g. in the Menagier)

This usage is also perfectly modern, which is probably why it never
occurred to me that it could be a reference to anything other than a spit.

Adamantius

From: "a5foil" <a5foil at ix.netcom.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Glossary submission?
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 18:46:33 -0400

I don't know if this holds true in the German, but in the French, Italian,
Spanish and Catalan, the word that translates to English as "in" may also
translate to English as "on" or "about", depending on the context. For
example, from the Catalan, "en la olla" translates as "in the pot" while "en
ast" means "on the spit" or "spit-roasted" depending on how it's used.

Thomas Longshanks

Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 02:41:46 +0200
From: tgl at mailer.uni-marburg.de
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Glossary submission?

<< I don't know if this holds true in the German, but in the French,
Italian, Spanish and Catalan, the word that translates to English as
"in" may also translate to English as "on" or "about", depending on the
context. For example, from the Catalan, "en la olla" translates as "in
the pot" while "en ast" means "on the spit" or "spit-roasted" depending
on how it's used. >>

Thanks a lot, Master Thomas, for pointing to the Catalan _en ast_ !

Looking at the Catalan De Nola and at the text of Sent Sovi, it seems
that _en ast_ is used quite frequently, both in cases where something is
already on (upon?) the spit (mig rostits en ast) and where one must put
something upon the spit (e met la en ast). In German, the use of "in" in
respect to spits is very strange, normally one says "am Spie=DF" or "an
den Spie=DF". Similarly, as far as I can see (as a non-native speaker and
writer of English), "on" or "upon" are commonly used in respect to spits
in English. Perhaps I should have said that, as far as I can see, in
Latin "ad spitonem" is more frequently used than "in spitone" etc. ...

BUT: my purpose was to say that "in" and its counterparts were not
wholly unheard of in respect to spits.

Thus, the use of "in" in the ENGLISH recipe _IS_ strange, as far as I
can see, and the question, Stefan put forward, was a very good one!

What I was trying to say is: the interpretation of the passage under
discussion in the sense of 'spit' can be defended, if one assumes that
some foreign (French, Romance) influence has taken place, where the
counterparts of "in" are well established (e.g. French _en broche_,
Catalan _en ast_).

Thomas II

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:34:16 -0400
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: "Cindy M. Renfrow" <cindy at thousandeggs.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] clockwork rotisserie

>Does anybody have any information on how to build an old clockwork
>rotisserie.  Drawings, pictures, anything.
>
>Connie.Aman at sait.ab.ca

Hi. I was recently at Fortress of Louisbourg in Nova Scotia, Canada.
http://fortress.uccb.ns.ca/parks/fort_e.html
Address:    Fortress of Louisbourg, NHS
                 259 Park Service Road,
                 Louisbourg, NS
                 B1C 2L2
                 Cananda

Ph: (902)733-2280
Fax: (902)733-2362

 In the governor's mansion, in the kitchen, is a recreation of a clockwork
rotisserie.  In the "how we did it" display, in another part of the
building, is the name of the metalsmith & photos of the process.

Cindy

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:28:20 -0400
From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] clockwork rotisserie

>Does anybody have any information on how to build an old clockwork
>rotisserie.  Drawings, pictures, anything.

>Connie.Aman at sait.ab.ca

Actually there is quite a bit available on these if you look.

It's scattered among entries and books on fireplaces, metalwork,
 ironwork, clocks, engineering, technology, etc.
General sources include-
Yarwood, Doreen. The British kitchen : housewifery since Roman times /
Doreen Yarwood. London : Batsford, 1981.
Feild, Rachael.Irons in the fire : a history of cooking equipment /
Rachael Feild.Ramsbury, Marlborough, Wiltshire : Crowood Press, 1984.

A Contact person would be Alice Ross who writes a column
for the Journal of antiques. Online see--
http://www.journalofantiques.com/hearthapr01.htm

There have been articles in Early American Life/Homes or
EAL regarding their use on American or Colonial fireplaces.
Almost any recreated colonial working kitchen in  various
historic houses and parks have at least one. (Although at times
I have noticed that more than  one of these is for show only.
They were incorrectly strung and wouldn't allow the spit to turn
if actually put to use.)

Johnnae llyn Lewis  Johnna Holloway

Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 20:24:26 -0400
From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: clockwork rotisserie

>Does anybody have any information on how to build an old clockwork
>rotisserie.  Drawings, pictures, anything.
>
>Connie.Aman at sait.ab.ca

There is a rotisserie with gears illustrated in Scappi's
Opera from 1570. Found it tonight while looking
for pie illustrations.

You can see it on the web at:
http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1619.htm

the article says--
"Clockwork was a primal concept of that age, and we see it again in
 Bartolemeo Scappi's spring-driven spit for cooking meat. Here's one of the
 few period pictures of a sixteenth-century watch mechanism. It's being used
 on a heroic scale to turn three large spits at constant speed.

Click on the highlighted text and illustration appears.

Johnna Holloway  Johnnae llyn Lewis

Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 20:48:37 -0400
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: Ron Carnegie <r.carnegie at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: clockwork rotisserie

>Does anybody have any information on how to build an old clockwork
>rotisserie.  Drawings, pictures, anything.
>
>Connie.Aman at sait.ab.ca

        I can probably get you photos of a reproduction 18th century clock
jack, but they are incredibly complicated and not much use under the
conditions we normally cook in (unless you have a permanant hearth that
is).  They use a weight system to drive the mechanism, rather than springs.
You have to crank the weight's rope around a winch which hopefully unwinds
slowly as the mechanism runs.  This part of the assembly therefore must be
mounted high enough to give a long enough run to make the tool useful, as
when the weight hits the floor you have to crank again.

        I mentioned hopefully.  The wieghts are in different sizes, since
the food cooked is in different weights.  This helps keep the spit turning
at the proper speed.

        I have used clock jacks and they can be annoying. (because of the
recranking, we never seem to have the correct weights!   Better to put a
child or apprentice to turning the spit by hand!

        Another sort of jack, which would be easier to make I think, would
be a smoke or chimney jack.  These rely on the rising heat to turn them,
just like those little christmas decorations with the candles.

Ranald de Balinhard

Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:24:12 -0500
From: "Nancy Kiel" <nancy_kiel at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Kitchens at Hampton Court
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Colonial Williamsburg has a clockjack in the Governor's Palace's  
kitchen, & may have pictures somewhere on the website.

Nancy Kiel

Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 11:38:41 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for a woodcut
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

How about this one--
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/food-art/field_kitchen.gif
It's one of the ones out of Scappi
Il Cuoco Segreto Di Papa Pio V (The Private Chef of Pope Pius V), by
Bartolomeo Scappi, Venice, 1570.
It's at */The Medieval/Ren Food Clip-Art Collection/
http://www.pbm.com/%7Elindahl/food-art/

Johnnae

Michael Gunter wrote:
> A while back I saw a woodcut of a period camp spit setup.
> It basically resembled a sawhorse with the horizontal bar
> having pots hanging from it and then along one side of the
> legs there were hooks which held spits upon which birds
> and sausages were roasting.
> I've looked all over and can't find the bloody thing now.
> I'm working with some folk here in Ansteorra on building
> a couple. The design is simple but I would like to find this
> thing to use as a reference. Does anyone have this or
> know where I could find it? snipped
> Gunthar

Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 08:39:54 -0700
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for a woodcut
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Michael Gunter wrote:
> A while back I saw a woodcut of a period camp spit setup.
> It basically resembled a sawhorse with the horizontal bar
> having pots hanging from it and then along one side of the
> legs there were hooks which held spits upon which birds
> and sausages were roasting.

Gode Cookery has a library of medieval food and cookery images.  The
section on kitchens and equipment begins here:
http://www.godecookery.com/afeast/kitchens/kit001.html

Selene C.

Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 19:39:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Helen Schultz <meisterin02 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for a woodcut
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I had a friend make me his rendition of that spit set-up a few years  
ago... you can see it at:  http://meisterin.katarina.home.comcast.net/ 
pennsic30.html.  The only thing I can see the artist left off was  
those things to hold the meat onto the spit pole.  My spit isn't  
exactly like the one from Scampi, but close, and it all comes apart  
for easy transport.  I've done a 60# pig on it, and smaller ones, as  
well.

~~ Meisterin Katarina Helene

----- Original Message ----
From: Saint Phlip phlip at 99main.com

I've been looking at that picture too, and it's my belief that the
artist left something out, because, as pictured, the bloody thing
would have all your food in a heap.

At any rate, I too intend to make one, after I get a few other
projects done. With luck, by Pennsic, I'll have a completely period
smithing set up ;-)

Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 06:59:45 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for a woodcut
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Apr 4, 2007, at 2:50 AM, Saint Phlip wrote:
> I'll hafta get up and look at it next Pennsic. It just doesn't look
> very stable to me. More than adequate for keeping the pig off the
> ground in the tug-of-war with gravity, but it looks to me like if
> someone brushed against an end, the whole thing would fall down.

I've been wondering about that myself, and whether there's a
combination of stabilizers between the wide "dog" feet and a little
torsion placed on the axle/crossbar when the whole thing is set up.
Look at the exaggerated care with which the joints and their layouts
are depicted; is there any other way it could work, without a sort of
quarter or one-eighth twist as the feet are planted?

Well, okay, I'm sure there is, and maybe the artist wasn't
mechanically inclined, but you get the idea.

Adamantius

> On 4/3/07, Helen Schultz <meisterin02 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I had a friend make me his rendition of that spit set-up a few
>> years ago... you can see it at:  http://
>> meisterin.katarina.home.comcast.net/pennsic30.html.  The only
>> thing I can see the artist left off was those things to hold the
>> meat onto the spit pole.  My spit isn't exactly like the one from
>> Scampi, but close, and it all comes apart for easy transport.
>> I've dont a 60# pig on it, and smaller ones, as well.
>>
>> ~~ Meisterin Katarina Helene

Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 21:08:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Helen Schultz <meisterin02 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for a woodcut
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Actually, it is bolted together at the tip with wing nuts.  The pins  
on the sides are at an angle, so the spit won't get knocked off  
easily.   The legs fit into the dirt quite nicely.  It stands about  
4.5' to 5' tall and is about 4' wide.  There are nice little hook  
things (don't know their real names) that hold the pig onto the  
square spit and keep it from spinning.... and then the whole pit is  
wired onto the spit piece.  Very stable.

However, you are more than welcome to come take a peek at it.  I  
usually camp in N-01 on St. Lawrence Way... Good Friends Camp (there  
is a nice little sign over the entrance gate).

~~ Meisterin Katarina Helene

----- Original Message ----
From: Saint Phlip <phlip at 99main.com>

I'll hafta get up and look at it next Pennsic. It just doesn't look
very stable to me. More than adequate for keeping the pig off the
ground in the tug-of-war with gravity, but it looks to me like if
someone brushed against an end, the whole thing would fall down.

On 4/3/07, Helen Schultz <meisterin02 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I had a friend make me his rendition of that spit set-up a few  
> years ago... you can see it at:  http:// 
> meisterin.katarina.home.comcast.net/pennsic30.html.  The only thing  
> I can see the artist left off was those things to hold the meat  
> onto the spit pole.  My spit isn't exactly like the one from  
> Scampi, but close, and it all comes apart for easy transport.  I've  
> dont a 60# pig on it, and smaller ones, as well.
>
> ~~ Meisterin Katarina Helene

Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 09:25:32 -0500
From: "Michael Gunter" <countgunthar at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Period spit group photos
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

We have a yahoo groups page with archives of
discussions and photos of our projects as well
as projects around the world on open fire cooking.

Just go here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Medieval-Open-Fire-Cooking/
and join up. You have to join because it's moderated against
SPAM.

Some cool stuff is in there.

Gunthar

Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 22:56:26 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Interesting website
To: "mk-cooks at midrealm.org" <mk-cooks at midrealm.org>,	Cooks within the
	SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Came across this website this evening
They advertise in Chile Pepper magazine.
spitjack.com
http://www.spitjack.com/

Johnnae

Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 08:58:46 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: [Spit-Project] Charcoal stoves for roasting from  Hampton
	Court
To: Creating period spits <spit-project at lists.ansteorra.org>

I posted the following note about the
Tudor Cooks at Hampton Court doing an Appraylere
earlier to SCA Cooks.

What I would point out here is that they have a good photo
of a spit setup over charcoal.

http://tudorcook.blogspot.com/2007_09_01_archive.html

It's after the comments about the Oxford Symposium, so scroll down.

Johnnae

Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 07:08:48 -0400
From: "Eric Campbell" <solvarr at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Spit-Project] hot air driven spits
To: spit-project at lists.ansteorra.org

An engineer did the rundown on a list I was on.
It basically amounted to having to use about six times the normal amount of
wood to get the draft necessary to turn the blades.

It seems that most people who start with this idea end up with a simple
weighted jack or clock jack due to size and weight restrictions.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/solvarr/sets/72157601171064881/

I am NOT saying don't try.   I'd love to see one of these in action. Later
today I'll see if I can find the engineers notes.

-Solvarr

Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2010 12:44:53 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,	Creating
	period spits <spit-project at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Hares Roasting a Hunter, 16th century

Came across this engraving and thought the list might like it.

Virgil Solis, artist
German, 1514 - 1562
Hares Roasting a Hunter, 16th century
Engraving

http://search3.famsf.org:8080/view.shtml?record=60692

It does illustrate a spit after all.

Numerous other illustrations by this artist
http://search.famsf.org:8080/search.shtml?keywords=solis

Johnnae llyn Lewis

Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 17:26:59 -0700
From: Mercy Neumark <mneumark at hotmail.com>
To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] What does this Dripping Dish Do?

So, I think by now you all know my first focus is pottery.  I do cook, but I make a lot of different items.  I go through the Museum of London site and try to find new items to make to sell and give sometimes as gifts to people.

I came across this: http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/ceramics/pages/largerimage.asp?obj_id=113105%20&img_id=49153

Here is the description of the item: http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/ceramics/pages/object.asp?obj_id=113105

So, I have my ideas as to what it does, but really... what does it do?  Is it for basting?  It has a spout/pouring lip.  It seems really long and cumbersome of anything else, but I could be wrong.  

Does anyone know of any good books that speak about what kitchen items did in period (how they were used)?  There are numerous warming dishes and oddities I can find, and honestly, I am not sure how someone would use these items.

--Mercy 			  		 

Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 17:46:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What does this Dripping Dish Do?

Gee Mercy, you could have asked me about it. Cooking a roast is rarely done directly over the fire, unless you like a smokey flavor. From what I have read, one puts the roast off slightly, to still get the heat and benefit from being spit turned. This dripping dish is placed under the roast to catch the fats. One can use these fats to baste the roast to keep is moist and also one can use the drippings to make a gravy. Hroar has made these in the past and still has some in stock. Your average SCAdian doesn't understand its purpose and we rarely sell any anymore.

Huette

Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 06:18:32 -0400
From: Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
To: sca-cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What does this Dripping Dish Do?

As mentioned, dripping pans were put under the items being roasted which 
were _in front of_ the fire, not on top of the flames.  There probably 
are more examples on my Flickr pages, but here are two.  Both are metal. 
 In the case of Hampton Court, the metal pans are larger than the 
ceramic one that Mercy found and would certainly have held up better to 
the continual use of a "factory kitchen".

Hampton Court: http://tinyurl.com/692z3ss - Note the position of the 
spits.  You can also see a lip on the left-hand side which would allow 
the pan to be tilted so the drippings could be poured off.

Another Hampton Court: http://tinyurl.com/6z52a6f and 
http://tinyurl.com/3shbcmy - Dripping, besides catching the juices of 
the roasting item, would also catch any of the basting liquid or spices, 
as in these pictures.

Ivan Day (noted food historian): http://tinyurl.com/65uykhf and 
http://tinyurl.com/5rjyb7o - These are from one of the classes he gives. 
 In the second example, you can sort of see a lower section (to the 
left as you look at the pan) where the juices collect, making it easier 
to dip out the liquid so the item can continue to be basted in its own 
juices.

Admittedly, these aren't shaped exactly like the pottery pans.  It would 
seem logical that the pottery items might have been used in homes during 
earlier periods than what Ivan's antiques represent.  The pottery pan 
would not have to be as large as that used to feed more than 600 people 
in a day as was done at Hampton Court.  I like the touch of the handle 
on the pottery example.  And I wonder if, on the left, there isn't the 
hint of a lip for guiding any drippings out of the pan.

Alys K.
-- 
Elise Fleming
alysk at ix.netcom.com
alyskatharine at gmail.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8311418 at N08/sets/

Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:34:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Devra <devra at aol.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] dripping dish

I was at the lecture on rebuilding Hampton Court by Mark (his last name escapes me) and talked about turning the spit.  He said, "You listen to the drip off the meat.  The fat doesn't make any noise as it drips.  If, however, the meat juices begin to drip, they sizzle and sputter, and you know that you have to turn the spit faster, so that the juices remain inside the meat, keeping it juicy."

Interesting factoid.

Devra

From: "Daniel And elizabeth phelps" <dephelps at embarqmail.com> 
To: "apprentice" <apprentice at yahoogroups.com> 
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 10:37:51 AM 
Subject: Ceramic Spit Supports 

Ran across this publication one issue of which shows period ceramic wedge shaped spit supports for cooking before the fire. 

http://www.yorkarchaeology.co.uk/resources/yatmag.htm 

Daniel 

Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 09:41:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Daniel And elizabeth phelps  <dephelps at embarqmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ceramic Spit Supports

<<< Ah, Thank you!- I was using the "quick-click" pictures at the bottom, and what was called 14-15 was actually pp 14-13...*very* interesting; these look like they could be really handy for taking to camping events...thanks for telling us about these!
Dan >>>

I don't know about camping events.  My take on that is that supports that can be thrust into the ground would work better.  I think that the ceramic supports would be useful in situations at fall/winter events where you might have access to a fireplace but no way to otherwise place spits or perhaps hang a pot.  Such would make a nice addition to a period cooking exhibition.  Did you notice that one of the supports had a centered hole, perhaps to support a drip pan? 

Daniel

Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 08:39:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dan Schneider <schneiderdan at ymail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ceramic Spit Supports

I agree that what you describe might be better on-site, but for someone with a smaller car, the ability to have a fairly versatile setup without having to transport a large collection of big, heavy, iron pieces could be kinda handy- most of the spit set-ups I've seen wouldn't actually fit in my current car if I wanted to take anything else. With the ceramic supports, I could pack a couple of spits, one or two pots, and trivets for them, and perhaps a griddle stone, and be able to cook pretty much anything, and still have room for the tent and some clothes...

--- On Sun, 6/19/11, Daniel And elizabeth phelps <dephelps at embarqmail.com> wrote:
<<< I don't know about camping
events. My take on that is that supports that can be
thrust into the ground would work better. I think that
the ceramic supports would be useful in situations at
fall/winter events where you might have access to a
fireplace but no way to otherwise place spits or perhaps
hang a pot. 

Daniel >>>

Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 12:05:33 -0400
From: Saint Phlip <phlip at 99main.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ceramic Spit Supports

Not sure what you've been seeing, but small, relatively light spit set
ups are  easy to make and transport.

Here are a couple of commercial ones, similar to what I make:

http://www.lehmans.com/store/Outdoors___Camping___Campfire___Tripod_with_Chain_for_Cast_Iron_Cookware_over_an_open_fire___203TP2?Args=

On these, I can make them any size, and they can either be in the
tripod  configuration like you see here, or with two uprights and the
bar laying across. I made mine with legs a bit over 6 ft long, and
heavy bar shock, to handle my 32" cast iron pot, like this  one:

http://www.lehmans.com/store/Kitchen___Cookware___Cast_Iron_Cookware___Sugaring_Kettles___205#2010

However, it's easy to make them any size.

And, there's also this item:

http://www.lehmans.com/store/Outdoors___Camping___Open_Fire_Cooking_Iron_Stand___86421?Args=

I made one of these and gave it to Ras several years ago. These also
are easy to make.

If you want to minimize soot and dirt, all you need to do is  make  a
bag to transport them in.

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 11:39 AM, Dan Schneider <schneiderdan at ymail.com> wrote:
<<< I agree that what you describe might be better on-site, but for someone with a smaller car, the ability to have a fairly versa tile setup without having to transport a large collection of big,heavy, iron pieces could be kinda handy- most of the spit set-ups I've seen wouldn't actually fit in my current car if I wanted to take anything else. With the ceramic supports, I could pack a couple of spits, one or two pots, and trivets for them, and perhaps a griddle stone, and be able to cook pretty much anything, and still have room for the tent and some clothes... >>>

Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 14:49:28 +0000
From: "Groff, Garth (ggg9y)" <ggg9y at virginia.edu>
To: "isenfir at virginia.edu" <isenfir at virginia.edu>,
	"atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org"
	<atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: [MR] Turnspit Dogs and Other Things

While browsing around the BBC I stumbled onto this interesting piece on domestic life, "History of the Home" by Dr. Lucy Worsley. It features some interesting thoughts on how both the rich and poor lived in the middle ages and beyond. It is worth a read by any Scadian, and I'm sure you will breathe a sigh of relief when you've finished: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/middle_ages/history_of_home.shtml . Here's her YouTube video of the first video on the kitchen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSBHDSIcObQ

The mention of the dog-turned spit reminded we that I've posted about the is before. I have been in the George Tavern in Lackock, and saw the dog spit there. I was told it was only one two surviving in England, though Lucy says there is only one. Here is her video, part 2 with the dog spit:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxghA4uXM8A .

Here's the Wikipedia article on the dog spit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnspit_Dog . You can also read more at: http://blogs.howstuffworks.com/2013/02/22/turnspit-dogs-the-elizabethan-must-have-kitchen-appliance/ .

Lord Mungo Napier, The Archer of Mallard Lodge

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris	spits-msg	 of