fd-paintings-msg - 3/12/11

Food items shown in various period paintings. References.

NOTE: See also the files: books-food-msg, cookbooks-msg, painting-msg, pigments-msg, p-tableware-msg, Armenian-Ilum-art, p-graffiti-lnks.

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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mfy at sli.com (Mike Yoder)
Subject: Re: New World foods in period (Was: Feast Formats)
Organization: Software Leverage, Inc. Arlington, Ma
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1993 23:15:10 GMT

A portrait which food aficionados would find interesting is Arcimboldo's
"Rudolf II as Vertumnus," which is reproduced in _Arcimboldo the Magnificent_.
I do not recall when the painting was done, but Arcimboldo's lifetime fell
entirely within period.

This picture depicts Rudolf as an assembly of vegetables, fruits, etc.; his ear
is unmistakably an ear of maize, which is a striking coincidence.  I would like
to know whether 16th C. Italian contained the equivalent of our expression "an
ear of corn."

I am certain this is considerably earlier than the 1597 reference to maize
which David/Cariadoc cited, but it does not indicate more than the bare fact
that maize was considered edible.  It might be, for example, that it was used
to make bread rather than being eaten boiled or whatever.

It might be useful to examine the picture closely and enumerate the items found
therein.  But I leave this to the cooks among us to decide.

    Franz Joder von Joderhuebel (Michael F. Yoder) [mfy at sli.com]


Date: 6 Apr 1998 12:44:17 -0700
From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu>
Subject: SC - corn...

Whether or not maize was used in period there is a beautiful italian painting
called "Summer" by Guiseppe Arcimboldo, c. 1573.  It is a "man" made entirely
of fruits and vegetables wearing a jacket woven from wheat stalks.  Included
in the painting are: various grains, artichoke, maize, eggplant, grapes,
cantelope (or very similar melon) pears, plums, peaches, scallions, garlic,
peas, cherries, raspberries, onions, possibly a cucumber, possibly a
gourd/squash, possibly a roma-style tomato, and a few other things I just
don't recognize.
Has anybody seen anything else in this vein?  Did he do a spring/winter/fall
as well?  Are there similar representations from other artists in other
countries?  I am looking at a postcard.  It doesn't tell us if they were eaten
or how, but it does show that things were familiar in a certain place at a
certain time.
- -brid


Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 16:08:47 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - corn...

I have seen a few paintings with similar themes and I believe they were
Arcimboldo's work.  If I remember correctly, some of them can be found in a
book entitled Renaissance Recipes.  While I didn't see any of Arcimboldo's
work in the most recent edition of Elizabeth David's Italian Cooking has a
many pieces of Italian Renaissance artwork with food as the subject.

Having maize in an Italian Renaissance painting doesn't surprise me.
Northern Italy is one of the places which took quickly to gran turco and
started using it in the polenta.

My wife says there are at least two different "Summers", they are parts of
complete seasonal sets and that she vaguely remembers reading that there may
be as many as four different seasonal sets.

Bear


Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 18:12:38 EDT
From: geneviamoas at juno.com
Subject: Re: SC - corn...

Brid,  are you looking for more paintings of vegetative folk and / or
collections of food stuffs from a given period?  If the latter check out
_The Kitchen_ by Vicenzo Campi (1536 - 91) in the Pinacoteca de Brera,
Milan or _The Kitchen of an Italian Villa_ attributed to Michaelangelo
Cergnozzi. The painting _Young Daughter of the Picts_ by Le Moyne de
Morgues (1533 - 1588) shows a woman heavily tattooed with flowers but not
made of them. And  in an early 17th century kitchen scene by Astolfo
Petrazzi (1579 - 1665) the headding reads "cabbages and pumpkins" but
looks to my eye like cabage and cantalope and squash... among other foods
shown. Just  found them all in Renaissance Recipes.

Genevia


Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:35:09 -0400
From: "marilyn traber" <mtraber at email.msn.com>
Subject: SC - archimboldo

http://mistral.culture.fr/louvre/francais/magazine/peint.97.htm
a nice reproduction of "summer".
margali
sorry for the french, but with me it is not a problem, and besides-you only
want to look at the pretty pictures, right?


Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:53:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Arcimboldo:  Was: Corn

Greetings.  Brid asked if Arcimboldo did any other "seasons" portraits
using foods.  Yes, he did several series of the seasons.  There is an
arts book (I found mine on remainder at Waldenbooks) of just his
paintings and shows the similarity of several of his series.

Alys Katharine


Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:07:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com (Elise Fleming)
Subject: SC - Food in the Arts:  Was: Corn

Brid (I think) wrote:
>Are there similar representations from other artists in other
>countries?  I am looking at a postcard.  It doesn't tell us if they
>were eaten or how, but it does show that things were familiar in a
>certain place at a certain time.

There are a fair number of books of varying types with food in art.
The Dutch painters were particularly fond of still lifes with food.
It's one of the better sources for what some period confections looked
like.  As I mentioned in an earlier post, I've found interesting books
at stores such as Waldenbooks and have a lovely one entitled "Still
Life" which mostly contains period art divided into sections such as
animals, foods, plants...The cover has a gorgeous glass goblet on it.

Alys Katharine


Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 04:41:06 +1100
From: Lorix <lorix at trump.net.au>
Subject: SC - FYI:  Nice "picture" web site

I have just found a rather nice site called
the "Web Gallery of Art".  Basically it is an
online gallery of paintings & sculptures
(useful for costuming references).  It has
provision to search by artists, countries &
time periods.

While I was browsing thru the artists, I
found 3 paintings from Giuseppe Arcimboldo
(b. cca. 1530, Milano, d. 1593, Milano).
Arcimboldo's most famous works are the
fantasy
paintings representing human faces and
composed from flowers, fruits, fishes and
other objects.  Sometimes these paintings
have allegoric or moral references.  There
are 3 on this site and I guess it is a form
of documentation for various seasonal fruits
& veg :-)

http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/a/arcimbol/index.html

Lorix


Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:17:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: SC - More waffle and pancake paintings

Here are more paintings that show waffles and
pancakes, although most of them are post-SCA period.

From Katie Stewart's book "The Joy of Eating",
pages 86-87.  Unfortunately, Ms. Stewart does not give
us the name of the artist or the name of the painting,
but the painting appears to be dated 1560.  We see a
multigenerational family, grandparents, parents and
baby. Next to the grandfather is a plate of waffles,
next to the mother is a plate of pancakes.  The
grandmother is making the pancakes in the background,
using a skillet to make the pancakes.  The skillet is
suspended over the fire by a large ring attached to a
set of chains.

From Peter Rose's book, "The Sensible Cook", we find
these paintings:

Page 2: Jan Steen, "The 12th Night Feast"
Jan Steen 1626-1679.
Page 15: Willem Buytewech, "Interior" 1610.
Page 22: Jan Steen, "The St. Nicholas Celebration"
Page 77: Nicholas Maes, "The Pancake Maker"
Nicholas Maes 1634-1693.
Page 117: No artist or date: "Sweet meal"

Huette


Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:55:48 -0500
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - More waffle and pancake paintings

And it came to pass on 6 Dec 99,, that Huette von Ahrens wrote:
> Here are more paintings that show waffles and
> pancakes, although most of them are post-SCA period.
>
> >From Katie Stewart's book "The Joy of Eating",
> pages 86-87.  Unfortunately, Ms. Stewart does not give
> us the name of the artist or the name of the painting,
> but the painting appears to be dated 1560.

There is a painting, apparently by the same artist, at:
http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/lowerclass/images/waffles.jpg
It is identified as: "Making Waffles" by Joachim Beuckelaer, 1565.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)


Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 19:42:33 -0500 (EST)From: alysk at ix.netcom.comSubject: SC - Food, Pottery & GlassGreetings!  The Cleveland Museum of Art is having a show of still-life paintings from the Netherlands (1550-1720) with some lovely depictions of pottery and glass, and "tons" of food - vegetable, animal, and confections.  They sell a book with all the paintings in them, including color or black/white details.  Potters and glassblowers will find quite a few examples of beautiful ware.Another book sold by the museum is _Still Life_ by Norbert Schneider and published by Taschen. On the cooks' list there was discussion of waffles.  Well, there's a period (late 1500s) painting with a round waffle that has the usual square impressions.  Another painting includes a square waffle. There are at least two pretzel pictures. One picture (from the early 1600s?) includes a grater hanging up on the wall.  This book sold for around $20, I believe.There are several examples of "pies" - big standing pies with inedible crust that is highly decorated; smaller pies with the contents spilling out; and one that shows the texture of the crust on the side as it has been broken off.  There are a number of pictures showing various sizes and types of bread.  One of the 1500s pictures shows a large knob of butter looking much like a stuffed pouch turned upside down.  In the same picture are four small pies with theshells obviously hand-made and not molded in a tin since they are unevenly round.For folk with an interest in food of all types and containers of varying materials, I heartily recommend looking at Dutch still life pictures.Alys Katharine

Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 16:15:06 -0500 (EST)
From: alysk at ix.netcom.com
Subject: SC - Re: Egg Sizes

Greetings!  Par answered:
>Got a response from my archaeology on the issue.  A quick look revealed
>no indications of egg sizes...

Diego Velazquez did two still lifes with eggs where you can see the approximate
size.  "Old Woman Poaching Eggs" (1610) was mentioned earlier by someone.  The
egg is cradled in the woman's hand and would seem to be about a "large" size,
although it might be as small as a "medium", but no smaller. He also did "Christ
in the House of Martha and Mary" (1618) where the eggs are in a shallow dish.
Martha's hands are not too far away and the egg looks like it would comfortably
fit in her fist, about the same size as in the previous still life.  Again, it
looks more like a "large".

Alys Katharine


Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 18:42:21 -0500
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd at gate.net>
Subject: SC - Re:Turkeys

Was written:
>Turkeys are also accurately depicted in an early 17th
>century painting by Joseph Heinz the younger hanging in
>the Museo Davia Bargellini in Bologna, in a 16th century
>manuscript in the Museo Civico in Padua and in Bernardo
>Strozzi's "The Cook".  All of these turkey paintings are in
>Gillian Riley's "Rennaissance Recipes -Painters and Food"
>Pomegrante Artbooks, San Francisco, 1993.  If someone
>on the list has access to more detailed sources for these
>paintings and can get exact dates for the works, we would
>have an excellent basis for co-oborating the widespread
>use of turkey in Italy from the early middle of the 16th century.

Regards turkeys Fernando Braudel in "The Structures of Everyday Life"
Civilization & Capitalism 15th-18th Century Vol. 1 page 189 says:

"Turkeys came from America in the 16th century.  A dutch painter, Joachim
Buedkalaer (1530-73) was probably among the first to include one in a still
life, today in the Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam."

I seem to remember other references that suggest that they were reasonably
common domestic fowl in England post 1550.  Common enough that records exist
of them being driven to market and prices quoted.  If there is enough
interest I will research this further and find the specific references in my
collection.  Please remember that with this fowl there is some historical
confusion with the Guinea Hen.

Daniel Raoul


Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 09:43:01 -0400
From: johnna holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Pineapple--Kiri's pineapple

A picture of Kiri's pineapples that she mentioned
earlier this month can be found here:
http://www.nga.gov/exhibitions/2002/slideshow/slide-163-4.htm
They were painted by Jacopo Ligozzi (1547-1626) who was invited
by the second grand duke of Tuscany, Francesco I (1541-1587)
to join his court. "Seventeen of Ligozzi's works are displayed,
the largest number ever seen outside of Italy. Among them are
the first known drawing of a pineapple from South America,
the American Century Plant newly brought from Mexico, and
Mourning Iris and Spanish Iris."
So we don't have to wait for the exhibition catalogue.

Johnnae llyn Lewis  Johnna Holloway


Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 08:57:30 -0800
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Food paintings
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Check out Gillian Riley's "Painters &
Food: Renaissance Recipes"...lots of paintings that include foods!

Kiri


Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 15:59:23 -0500
From: Christina L Biles <bilescl at okstate.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] tart crust question
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

> <http://worldart.sjsu.edu/VieO42870$10084*778063>
Olwen said:
***Anyone else think the smaller round item is a sandwich?  Nice tart
crust.

Nah.  It's a roll. They show up in tons of these Dutch still life pics.
Whole, cut in half, torn - they are one of the most common elements I  
have
found.   I have seen a 1680s? pic of a woman eating slices of cheese
betwen slices of roll/bread, which totally cracked me up, that being my
default lunch at events.   If you are interested I can run up into the
stacks tomorrow to grab the book & scan the picture.

-Magdalena


Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:32:49 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] tart crust question
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Wrong time and place for a bagel.  I would say it is a small loaf of manchet
quality bread in a shape the French refer to as a galette (small cake).
Galettes with fruit baked into them are common for special occasions.  In
this case, the slight green and yellow coloration along the edge give the
appearance that the loaf has been cut and filled with something.  This could
be a problem with the image as it appears on the screen, so a high quality
photo reproduction or a look at the original would tell us more.

The loaf is also similar to baked brie.

Bear

> Actually it looks like a bagel with the dough risen up to close the whole in
> the middle to me. I don't see anything between the bread either.
>
> Elewyiss


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:47:04 EST
From: Devra at aol.com
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re:Dutch cooking
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

    Has anyone mentioned 'Sensible Cook' by Peter Rose (1600-ish book
from New Netherlands) and 'Matters of Taste' - great Dutch paintings 
from period showing food, with recipes also by Peter Rose.

      Devra

Devra Langsam
www.poisonpenpress.com


Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:57:57 -0500
From: Jenn Strobel <jenn.strobel at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: Dutch Cooking
To: alysk at ix.netcom.com, Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:46:15 -0500, Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com>wrote:
> Odriana wrote:
>> Peter Rose also did a book that
>> is a survey of pictures done in the 16th/17th centuries (time period
>> could be off, i'm working from memory) featuring food. It's an
>> expensive, but very nice book.
>
> Do you have the title or ISBN?  Is it still in print?
>
> Alys Katharine

It's called "Matters of Taste" and you can get details from Peter
Rose's website: http://www.peterrose.com/books.html.

I've had the privilege of thumbing through it and it's just an
amazingly beautiful book.

Odriana/Jenn


Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 00:28:19 -0500
From: Daniel Myers <edouard at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Odd looking things in paintings
To: SCA Cooks <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

In the paintings below, there are these things that look something (but
not completely) like a baby brie cut in half.  Any ideas what they are?

Here they're on the tray on the table
http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/images/aria/sk/z/sk-a-3.z

There's only one here - leaning on a pitcher - I'd think it was a
mushroom cap, but the inside doesn't look right.
http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/images/aria/sk/z/sk-a-4821.z

At the butcher's, lower center - there's one white, one beige, and two
that are reddish-brown (if it's brie then Yuck!).
http://www.wga.hu/art/a/aertsen/butchers.jpg

Any ideas?

- Doc


Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 11:02:07 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Hoogsteder & Hoogsteder
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Those that like the Flemish and Dutch paintings of foods
arranged on plates may like browsing through
the website featuring Hoogsteder & Hoogsteder  who deal
in Dutch and Flemish artworks.
http://www.hoogsteder.com/
They have a journal and there are a number of interesting articles
including one
on Fish Still Lifes by Dutch and Flemish Masters from 1550-1700.
from #10.
Volume 1 has an article on a Clara Peeters' still life.
Volume 7 has an article entitled An immigrant in Amsterdam
How Johannes Bouman of Strasbourg became a Dutch painter.
There's also one there on 12th Night.

http://www.hoogsteder.com/journal/journal.aspx?no=9 has
several articles on drinking in various paintings.
Drinking habits in the seventeenth century Dirty water
Drinking peasants, drunken gentlemen Drinking companies in art
Drink and grapes
Symbolism in still lifes and genre scenes

Johnnae llyn Lewis


Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 11:08:13 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Odd looking things in paintings
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Daniel Myers wrote:
>> In the paintings below, there are these things that look something
>> (but not completely) like a baby brie cut in half.  Any ideas what
>> they are?
>>
>> Here they're on the tray on the table
>> http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/images/aria/sk/z/sk-a-3.z
>
> I think cheese here.
>
>> There's only one here - leaning on a pitcher - I'd think it was a
>> mushroom cap, but the inside doesn't look right.
>> http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/images/aria/sk/z/sk-a-4821.z
>
> I think that's just a roll of bread myself. The cheeses here are stacked
> behind in the pile. Take a look at the work titled The Baker-- it's on
> the front cover

of Matters of Taste.  www.peterrose.com/lectures.html
<http://www.peterrose.com/lectures.html>
or see the page: www.rnw.nl/culture/html/taste021031.html
<http://www.rnw.nl/culture/html/taste021031.html>

>> At the butcher's, lower center - there's one white, one beige, and
>> two that are reddish-brown (if it's brie then Yuck!).
>> http://www.wga.hu/art/a/aertsen/butchers.jpg
>
> It turns out that Aertsen's The Meat Stall is a much commented on
> painting. There's more than 10 pages

devoted to this work in Honig's Painting and the Market in Early Modern
Antwerp. (Yale, 1998).
There are a number of elements in this painting. The Holy family
pausing on the Flight to Egypt is shown in the background landscape.

I thought cheeses here although after looking at some other works, Ithink the darker brown ones might be the rusks, although perhaps flat blood puddings might better fit in with the scene of a butcher's shop. Peter Rose in Matters of Taste identifies similiar looking flat foodstuffs as rusks, such as those that are pictured in Clara Peeters Still Life with Crab, shrimp, and lobster. It was on the web as it was in the Albany show, but it's been taken down. It's in the book on page 109.

Johnnae


Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:41:30 -0500
From: "Elise Fleming" <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Odd looking things in paintings
To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Greetings.  The "odd looking things" pointed out in this painting (Here
they're on the tray on the
table...http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/images/aria/sk/z/sk-a-3.z) look just like
the items in Pieter Aertson's "Meat Pantry of an Inn, with the Virgin
Giving Alms".  The art book that I have says that they are "pies".  The
pastry appears to be hand-shaped rather than done in a pan or form.
Aertson paints at least two different kinds, but they are the same culinary
item (I think!) as in the picture cited above.  While I can't swear that
they are custard, they look custard-y.

While the second picture in question
(http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/images/aria/sk/z/sk-a-4821.z) doesn't ask about
the cheeses, similar cheeses are throughout Dutch paintings.  The one art
book comments "the dark cheese in the stack might be sheep's cheese,
colored with sheep's feces".  Have a nice lunch!

Alys Katharine


Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 21:10:38 -0500
From: "Martin G. Diehl" <mdiehl at nac.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Found another Art archive (plus a minor excursion
	into	Mathematics)
To: sca-cooks <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>, SCA-East
	<sca-east at indra.com>,	settmour_swamp <settmour_swamp at yahoogroups.com>

I noticed yet another Internet Art Archive (YAIAA) ...

"The Artchive";
http://artchive.com/ftp_site.htm

Some examples ...

Piero di Cosimo; "The Discovery of Honey";
c. 1505-1510; Oil on panel; Art Museum, Worcester, MA
http://artchive.com/artchive/P/piero_di_cosimo/cosimo_honey.jpg.html
[ob food reference]

Piero di Cosimo (1462-1521) -- short bio
http://artchive.com/artchive/P/piero_di_cosimo.html
[yet another ob food reference]

Durer, Albrecht; "A Young Hare";
1502; Watercolor and gouache on paper; 25 x 23 cm
http://www.artchive.com/artchive/D/durer/hare.jpg.html

Durer, Albrecht; "Portrait of Michael Wolgemut";
1516; Oil and tempera on panel; 29 x 27 cm
http://artchive.com/artchive/D/durer/wolgemut.jpg.html

[this might not be the same Wolgemut as we see at Pennsic <g>]

Durer, Albrecht; "Melencolia I";
1514; Engraving; 24 x 19 cm;
http://artchive.com/artchive/D/durer/melencol.jpg.html

[Note: "Melencolia I" contains the first magic square to
be seen in Europe, cleverly including the date 1514 as two
entries in the middle of the bottom row.  There seems to be
some math mystery about the polyhedron in the picture.
More about math later in this message (u r warned)]

Durer, Albrecht; "Self-Portrait at 26", 1498
http://www.artchive.com/artchive/D/durer/self26.jpg.html

Albrecht Durer (1471-1528)
http://artchive.com/artchive/D/durer.html

Quoting from the preceding link,

	It is, however, the self-portraits of Durer that
	give us the greatest insight into his character
	and beliefs. The first, drawn when he was just 13,
	depicts the soft features of a young boy, sketched
	with great confidence and skill.

	Durer was rightly proud of his achievement and
	years later he added the inscription:

		'This I drew, using a mirror; it is
		my own likeness, in the year 1484,
		when I was still a child.'

After a 'little distraction' (TM) (read about it further
along in this message), I found this set of drawings ...
I should say, this *spectacular* set of drawings.

Drawings (1484-1499) by Albrecht DÜRER
http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/d/durer/2/11/1/

Albrecht DÜRER, "Self-Portrait at 13";
1484; Silverpoint on paper, 275 x 196 mm;
http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/d/durer/2/11/1/01self13.jpg

Hmmmmmmmm .. what kind of hat is that?  Is that a pocket?
[ob garb reference]

While looking for a good image of the Albrecht Durer
"Self-Portrait at 13", I got a 'little bit' sidetracked
when my buddy Google claimed that he saw a reference to
Albrecht Durer in "The MacTutor History of Mathematics"
archive.  This is a "collection of over 1000 biographies
and historical articles of a mathematical nature"

A Renaissance Artist ... in a site about the history of
Mathematics ... I'll just look for a few minutes to see
what's going on ... then finish this eMail.  Time passes.

(Side note ... Mathematicians are just a little strange ...
the home page of the site claims 'over 1000 biographies'
and this folder, "Index of /~history/Mathematicians";
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/
lists 1,718 files which seem to be names ... presumably
names of mathematicians.  No matter how you count it,
1,718 > 1,000 ... so who am I to complain?)

That site includes Albrecht Durer as one of the 1,718
names listed in their History of Mathematics.

"The MacTutor History of Mathematics";
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/

Mathematics History Topics Index;
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Indexes/HistoryTopics.html

Mathematics History Indexes of Biographies (conveniently
divided into Chronological _and_ Alphabetical indexes);
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/BiogIndex.html
[ob Historical Name Research]

"Albrecht Durer" (as a Mathematician!);
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Durer.html

Albrecht Durer, the Artist ... also a Mathematician ... OK, so
Google wasn't pulling my leg ... at least, not this time.  <g>

I hope that you will enjoy reading this and looking at the
images as much as I enjoyed putting it together for you.

... if I'm off target with this sort of message or report,
I certainly hope you'll let me know sooner than later.

Vincenzo


Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:32:22 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Found another Art archive
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Those with academic access to networked databases ought to
search ARTSTOR which is the newest of these image databases.
The ARTstor Library's initial content will include approximately 300,000
images covering art, architecture and archeology. ARTstor's initial
software tools will support a wide range of pedagogical and research
uses including: viewing and analyzing images through features such as
zooming and panning, saving groups of images online for personal or
shared uses, and creating and delivering presentations both online and
offline. This community resource will be made available solely for
educational and scholarly uses that noncommercial in nature.

Johnnae


Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 12:27:16 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Still Life with Sweets and Pottery, 1627
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>,
	SCA_Subtleties at yahoogroups.com

I was doing an image search today and came
across this one
http://www.nga.gov/cgi-bin/pinfo?Object=45891+0+none

It's too good to pass up and it's easy to get to since it's in the
National Gallery of Art. There are a number of detail images too.

Still Life with Sweets and Pottery, 1627 by Juan van der Hamen

Doughnuts anyone?

Johnnae


Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:06:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kathleen Madsen <kmadsen12000 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: Food on Plates
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Both cheeses have the traditional shape and rind of a
gouda, however the one on the right has what looks
like  cumin and caraway seeds - which would make that
Leyden.  The left one is definitely an aged gouda
which is probably about 2-3 years old.  We have a 4
year version that we carry that is darker and
grainier, it no longer crumbles like this image,
rather it breaks into shards.

Both dutch cheeses, and both made in late-period,
which fits what you've got painted on the canvas and
the area the artist is from.

Hope this has helped,
Eibhlin, who is a cheesemonger and corp. buyer of
cheese and charcut. in real life.  ;)


Ok folks---

Picture One
http://www.nga.gov/exhibitions/2005/claesz/claesz_ss1.shtm

The question has arisen on another list as to the
cheeses?

The fruits in question I think are mainly currants.

Any ideas on the cheese?

Johnnae


Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:45:33 -0400
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Food on Plates  Pieter Claesz
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Picture One
> http://www.nga.gov/exhibitions/2005/claesz/claesz_ss1.shtm
>
> The question has arisen on another list as to the cheeses?
>
> The fruits in question I think are mainly currants.

Click the + to expand the picture.

The plate has little wild strawberries and some white currants.   The
basket has red, black, and white currants, larger green gooseberries,
more strawberries, cherries, and strawberry leaves.

Ranvaig


Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 12:01:23 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Feast of St Nicholas Breads and Cakes
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>,
	"mk-cooks at midrealm.org" <mk-cooks at midrealm.org>

It seems the season and the right day to share this one with the list.

Jan Steen's Feast of Saint Nicholas
I know that it is circa 1663-65, but it shows a number of interesting
baked items.
The artwork may be seen here-
http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/s/steen/page1/
Click on the image to get a larger image to look at.

What's great is that by using this page--
http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/aria/aria_assets/SK-A-385? 
page=1&lang=en&context_space=&context_id=

from the Rijksmuseum one can read about various items portrayed
in the painting. [Also check out "Leiden Baker Arend Oostwaert and His
Wife Catharina Keyzerswaert" which is also part of the Rijksmuseum
collection.]
One can get the image to enlarge so you can examine all the details.

Included in this Feast of St Nicholas are
gingerbread, honey cake, nuts, waffles and apples from the tree. The
large ginger cake is a matchmaker or 'hylickmaker' [A Hylickmaker is a
kind of large cake decorated with candied peel and pieces of orange.
Hylick means marriage. It was therefore an ideal gift for a person who
was about to propose. This type of cake was also eaten on St Nicholas
day, because of the saint's association with marriage.]

Leaning against the table is a gleaming duivekater [A
'duivekater' is a diamond-shaped loaf baked for festive occasions.]

The little girl holds a container from which can be seen a sucker
on a stick in the form of a rooster.

The child near the chimney is holding a delicacy that is still eaten
around 5 December: a gingerbread man in the shape of St Nicholas. In the
seventeenth century, the baking of St Nicholas figures was banned in
many Dutch cities. In Utrecht, for example, an ordinance passed in 1655
forbade 'the baking of likenesses in bread or cake'.
There's even a mention of the The second St Nicholas Feast that was also
the work of Jan Steen.

So Happy December 5th Everyone,

Johnnae llyn Lewis


Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 23:58:44 -0500
From: "otsisto" <otsisto at socket.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Can you identify the food?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

-----Original Message-----
http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/t/toeput/index.html

I sent this as a looky here, neat painting, have fun.

Going left to right.

There appears to be either a leaf or a lime on the lower left corner next to
what appears to be an orange (or could it be a grapefruit?). The pink thingy
looks to be a flower (rose?) the platter contains peaches and grapes. I had
not thought of apricots but in comparison to the peaches on the other
platter, I see that as a slim possibility as the leaves in front of the
platter are grape and the others could pass as apricot leaves as peach
leaves tend to be narrower (grew up with apricot and peach tree in the back
yard). Two figs are on the left of the table near the server's pants. At
first glance I thought the item in the upper left was a cheese round but on
the right side of it, there seems to be a stem so it is a melon. The head
cook? is handing the server a plate of red cherries. Between the front two
platters are cherries. On the second front platter you have peaches and
pears. Behind the platter are some figs, peach and peach half. Pomegranates
on the right front corner with a platter of two types of figs behind them.
The table cloth appears to be covering a Persian rug, which to my
understanding, the rugs were first used as table covers before they were
used as rugs in the Mediterranean and European households (has anyone heard
different?)

The table in the front has two wine decanters. A platter and matching
decanter of which I think (once upon a time I read somewhere) this would
have been filled with water. The set would have been used to wash hands, aka
finger bowl.

To the right of the set is a pomegranate and to the right of that a pear and
possibly a piece of the pomegranate rind.
The boy server is carrying a platter of figs.

Thank you for answering and hope you had a bit of fun.

On a side note, I found this rare seed site when looking for Italian Melons.
Thought some may be interested.
http://rareseeds.com/seeds/Melons-European

De


Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 01:35:25 -0400
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcarrollmann at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Can you identify the food?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 12:58 AM, otsisto <otsisto at socket.net> wrote:

<<< There appears to be either a leaf or a lime on the lower left corner next
to what appears to be an orange (or could it be a grapefruit?). >>>

More likely a pomelo, ancestor of the grapefruit.  Grapefruits are an
18th c. hybrid.
-- 
Brighid ni Chiarain


Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 07:44:08 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Can you identify the food?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Pomelos are introduced later too.
Their skin tends to be more greenish.
Like Bear, I would guess it's a Citron. I've seen both.

Johnnae


Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 15:57:20 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Can you identify the food?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 7:44 AM, Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com> wrote:
> Pomelos are introduced later too.
> Their skin tends to be more greenish.
> Like Bear, I would guess it's a Citron. I've seen both.

<<< I am 95% sure that there is a recipe involving pomelos in Granado
(1599).  I'll check when I get home.
-- 
Brighid ni Chiarain >>>

Pomelo is a 19th century English variant of the 17th Century Dutch 
"pompelmoes" or "pompelmousse."    Granado may have a recipe with pomelos, 
but you might want to double check original usage and translation in the 
Spanish.

Bear 


Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 00:58:01 -0400
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcarrollmann at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Can you identify the food?
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I dug out my copy of Granado (a modern transcription in Spanish), and
found I was mistaken.  The word is not "pomelos" but "toronjas".  I
can't find the magnifier for my micro-print edition of Covarrubias,
but I think "toronja" is a variety of citron.  In any case, it is
*not* a pomelo.  I apologize for jumping in before I check my
information.
-- 
Brighid ni Chiarain


Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 06:42:04 -0500
From: Elise Fleming <alysk at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Divinity-like candy from Nostradamus
To: sca-cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Stefan asked, and Talana answered, a question about Nostradamus's pine 
nut candy.  Years ago the Cleveland Museum of Art displayed a painting 
that I thought contained a depiction of this sweet.  The painting was 
"Still Life with Sweets", 1622, by Juan van der Hamen, a Spanish 
painter. (He's also listed on other art works as Juan van de Hamen y 
Leo'n".  Amica, on the internet, includes this in their description: 
"The rectangular cakes on the plates are made of almonds and hazelnuts; 
the white squares are concoctions of pine nuts and sugar."

You can find an image online at:
http://www.clevelandart.org/explore/

Type in either the painter's name or the title of the painting.

Alys Katharine


Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:53:40 -0500
From: chawkswrth at aol.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Flemish Art

I was cruising through the WGA Art Gallery and came across Pieter Aertsen, who was active during the 16th Century. Flemish painters always take an interesting look at life under the stairs. There are several paintings of Market places, kitchens and the cook. 
These have so many suggestions of what they ate, how they dressed....

http://www.wga.hu/index1.html

Helen


Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 07:14:38 -0700
From: edoard at medievalcookery.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] digital libraries on culinary history ...

From: emilio szabo 
<< While exploring some sources to answer some questions about Italian  
works, I was doing some browsing and came across another online digital archive.

http://www.academiabarilla.com/academia/gastronomic-library/ext/digital-book/year.aspx

The World of Academia Barilla >>>

Ok, so I was browsing through this site just to see what was there, and
I came across something interesting.

There's a page full of "Gastronomic Prints", and about halfway down is
one titled "La grigliata - The Grill" - I can't link directly to the
image, but here's the page of prints.
http://www.academiabarilla.com/academia/gastronomic-prints/browse-gastronomic-prints-collection.aspx?q=XVI

What I find notable about it is that the woman on the right side of the
image is holding what appears to be a bratwurst in a split roll. 
Popular wisdom is that sausages were first served in rolls around the
1890s, but if I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing then the practice dates
back to at least the 1600s.

- Doc


Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:19:44 -0500
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcarrollmann at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] digital libraries on culinary history ...

On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 9:14 AM,  <edoard at medievalcookery.com> wrote:
<<< What I find notable about it is that the woman on the right side of the
image is holding what appears to be a bratwurst in a split roll.
Popular wisdom is that sausages were first served in rolls around the
1890s, but if I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing then the practice dates
back to at least the 1600s. >>>

The English caption says that this is a woman selling grilled
vegetables.  Can someone translate the German caption?  It may shed
more light on what's happening.

Brighid ni Chiarain


Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:53:03 -0700
From: James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] digital libraries on culinary history ...

<<< There's a page full of "Gastronomic Prints", and about halfway down is
one titled "La grigliata - The Grill" - I can't link directly to the
image, but here's the page of prints.

http://www.academiabarilla.com/academia/gastronomic-prints/browse-gastronomic-prints-collection.aspx?q=XVI

What I find notable about it is that the woman on the right side of the
image is holding what appears to be a bratwurst in a split roll.
Popular wisdom is that sausages were first served in rolls around the
1890s, but if I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing then the practice dates
back to at least the 1600s. >>>

Sure looks like a hot dog stand to me.

Text:

Hier wird um wenig geld ein gute Wurst, gebraten, womit dem Hunger
wird doch nicht dem durst geraten, den einer leschen Kan nach
hertzens wunsch dar auf an einem solchen Ort wo wein u bier zu kauff.

Partial speculative translation (WARNING: I do not speak German):
Here for not much money a good sausage, roasted, with which Hunger
will be converted to thirst, to quench which one's heart's desire
is a place where one can also buy wine and beer.

Thorvald


Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 12:20:52 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Interesting Book

On Nov 20, 2010, at 12:07 PM, Daniel & Elizabeth Phelps wrote:
<<< Just came across an interesting book that is now out in paperback.   
"Taste and Temptations, Food and Art in Renaissance Italy" by
John Variano.  Anyone read it and have an opinion?

Daniel >>>

It's not bad. I think it needed more art. It fits in well with the  
other Food in Art books.

My review in part said
"rather marvelous literary work. For those that like to read about art  
and history (in this case food in art.). it's very satisfying. For  
those that would rather look and want lots of pictures, perhaps less  
satisfying. 75 listed illustrations-many quite small and not in color."

You may be able to get a used or discounted copy of the hardback if  
you look.

Johnnae


Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2011 12:00:11 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: sca_Subtleties at yahoogroups.com,	Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Tate Britain up on Google Art

Google has their new art project up. I don't know that anyone has  
mentioned that there are works with food up!
It promises to be a really good site if they keep adding to it. You  
can zoom in very very close for details!!! Use the plus and minus  
signs in the upper left of the screen. Click and drag to observe  
different areas of a painting.
For now the following museums are included in the project:

Alte Nationalgalerie, Berlin - Germany
Freer Gallery of Art, Smithsonian, Washington DC - USA
The Frick Collection, NYC - USA
Gem?ldegalerie, Berlin - Germany
The Metropolitan Museum of Art, NYC - USA
MoMA, The Museum of Modern Art, NYC - USA
Museo Reina Sofia, Madrid - Spain
Museo Thyssen - Bornemisza, Madrid - Spain
Museum Kampa, Prague - Czech Republic
National Gallery, London - UK
Palace of Versailles - France
Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam - The Netherlands
The State Hermitage Museum, St Petersburg - Russia
State Tretyakov Gallery, Moscow - Russia
Tate Britain, London - UK
Uffizi Gallery, Florence - Italy
Van Gogh Museum, Amsterdam - The Netherlands

I have to admit that I am intrigued by looking at baskets of bread in  
some of the Dutch works myself. Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam - The  
Netherlands has:
 Feast of St Nicholas; Still Life with Turkey Pie; Still Life with a  
Silver Jug;

Worth a browse on a now rainy afternoon

Johnna

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	fd-paintings-msg	Page 20 of 20