Title: food-sources-msg
Subject: Modern sources for unusual medieval meats and other foods.
Author: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: sources, meat, eels, fish, store, purchase, obtain , buy, unusual

food-sources-msg - 1/31/08

Modern sources for unusual medieval meats and other foods.

NOTE: See also the files: exotic-meats-msg, drying-foods-msg, organ-meats-msg,
eels-msg, butchering-msg, marrow-msg, food-seasons-msg, merch-spices-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that
I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some
messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium.
These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with
seperate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes
extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were
removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I
make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the
individual authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these
messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this
time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give
credit to the orignator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
    mark.s.harris at motorola.com            stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:21:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Swan sources

<< Where would you get peacock? >>

Peacock and swan chicks (sic) can be obtained from any place that sells fancy
poultry chicks for farm and hobbyist. Game around here is never a problem for
us. I just put out the call as it were. I have a goose resideing in my
freezer this very moment waiting for his final resting place on high table.
The best way if you don't have the space to raise them yourself is to beg,
beg, beg.This usually causes hunter type friends to be more than
generous..........<smiling....remembering the time I did a whole deer at the
campfire at Pensic....:-))

Lord Ras

From: Annejke at prodigy.com (MS MARTHA L WALLENHORST)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:38:17, -0500
Subject: SC - swans, eel and peacocks, oh

You can get peacock from a butcher's outlet in Colorado.  I don't 
have the address handy but they do carry all forms of pea-fowl, 
venison, swan, etc.  I don't know if they are on line or not but when 
I get a pea-fowl I simply go to the local butcher who orders it as I 
need it, skined, cleaned, skin intact for redressing.  Remember when 
doing a peacock that it needs to roast slowly for many, many hours in 
rose water and tightly covered.  It is quite wonderful.  If I 
remember correctly The last time I bought one it was $25 for the bird 
and $5 for cold shipping UPS.

Annejke

From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com>
Date: 18 Apr 1997 11:22:39 -0500
Subject: Re(2): SC - peacocks and eels

> At 10:18 PM 4/17/97 -0600, Stefan li Rous wrote, quoting me:
> >1. A peacock is a game bird, and cooks differently than a chicken.
> >2. It was a peaCOCK, not a peaHEN, and took longer to cook because of this.
> >>>>>>
> >Please explain these two points to new cook. If the peacock and the
> >chicken are the same size, why would they cook differently?
> 
> It is my understanding that game birds (pheasant, for example) take much
> longer to cook than your average off-the-shelf chicken. Also, unless spiced
> some way (like roasted in rose water, as someone else suggested), you will
> get a very "gamey" flavor from the meat.

In my experience growing up in a hunting household, what generally told how
gamey the meat was was the competence of the person who gutted it.  If they
were poor, the meat was so bad as to be almost uneatable (but never waste
meat!).  If they were average, the meat was "gamey."  If they were good, then
the meat tasted wonderful, and even avowed non-game eaters loved it.  The
difference was in how the entrails were handled.  

Difference 1:  Good field-dressing ties off the urethra *before* doing
anything else.  This means getting a little messy, but it makes for better
meat if it has not been in contact with urine.  The meat directly in contact
is really unfit for human consumption, and the remaining meat around the
cavity tastes gamey.

Difference 2:  The entrails are handled quite carefully.  Slitting the skin is
done carefully -- to make sure that the peritoneum (or whatever lines the
abdomen) is the only thing slit/there are no nicks in the entrails.

Difference 3:  Field dressing is done immediately after killing, not a half
hour to an hour after the kill when the animal is home.

Another factor in the taste of game meat is how it is cooked.  Remember, most
game meat is significantly leaner than domestic animals.  Therefore they need
to be cooked *slowly* in a moist environment (roast in covered pan with water,
simmer in a stew, etc.).  Birds tend to do better skinned.  This will give you
quite good tasting, moist, non-gamey meat.

Derdriu
(whose family insisted that everyone -- guys and gals -- hunt for at least one
year to decide if we liked it or not)
swensel at brandegee.lm.com

From: Aldyth at aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:56:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Re: SC game meat (was peacock and eels)

In a message dated 97-04-18 12:08:21 EDT, Christi writes:
<< I have a question on this.  I agree with the dressing out theory.  But
 doesn't it also depend on what the animal ate?  I have had venison that
 survived on mostly sage, and venison that was ranch raised and there was
 a definite difference in flavor.  I was told that meat that was wild was
 more "gamey" due to their diet.  Both of these animals were killed,
 gutted and prepared by the same individuals.>>

My lord husband and I have hunted for 20 years.  While I haven't noticed it
in game birds per se, I have noticed a difference in taste in big game (elk,
deer, moose.) depending on where it was harvested and what it was eating.  I
learned it the hard way when early on we took our game to a processor.  The
deer we left was about 200 pounds field dressed, and had been placidly
feeding on wheat fields for its life.  The deer we received was pre saged.
 From then on we processed our own meat completely.  I have never had a
problem with *funny* tasting game since then.

Aldyth
Aldyth at aol.com

From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com>
Date: 18 Apr 1997 13:06:01 -0500
Subject: SC - Game (y) meats

I wrote:
> >In my experience growing up in a hunting household, what generally told how
> >gamey the meat was was the competence of the person who gutted it.  If they
> >were poor, the meat was so bad as to be almost uneatable (but never waste
> >meat!).  If they were average, the meat was "gamey."  If they were good, then
> >the meat tasted wonderful, and even avowed non-game eaters loved it.  The
> >difference was in how the entrails were handled.  

<snip>

To which Christi asked:

> I have a question on this.  I agree with the dressing out theory.  But
> doesn't it also depend on what the animal ate?  I have had venison that
> survived on mostly sage, and venison that was ranch raised and there was
> a definite difference in flavor.  I was told that meat that was wild was
> more "gamey" due to their diet.  Both of these animals were killed,
> gutted and prepared by the same individuals.

In all honesty, the only time I have had "gamey" meat was when my brother and
one of my father's friends had dressed the animal (this stands for venison,
rabbit, squirrel, fowl -- i.e. most legally hunted game in PA).  My dad
insisted that the difference was in how the entrails were handled.

In addition, we also raised domestic rabbits.  If the entrails were not
handled carefully (like the bladder leaked), the result was "gamey" meat.  

Now the difference in flavor (I set this aside from gamey-ness, which is
texture and flavor) is linked to how the animal ate while alive.  I adore beef
raised on corn and tolerate beef raised on food supplements.  Likewise
chicken.  I suspect the time of year the animal was killed may affect the
flavor of the meat because the available diet and fat reserves change during
the year.

Finally, with a given of the different flavors imparted by breed of cattle
(Angus vs. anything else -- I am at a loss for other beef cattle breeds),
different types of deer may affect flavor. 

I have a story about a college friend who declared one day that he hated deer
meat because it was so gamey. I told him I could fix deer meat that he would
love; he doubted it. A week or so later, I invited him over to my place to
have venison (he said he never tried it).  After eating, he raved about how
that was the best meat he had ever had and wanted to know where I bought it. 
I told him, truthfully, that my parents sent it to me.  The following Monday,
he was telling mutual friends about how great venison was and didn't
understand why they were rolling on the floor.  He asked me, and I explained
that venison was another name for deer meat, but I wanted him to try it with
no preconceived notions of how it should taste.  He wanted to know when I was
cooking it again so he could invite himself to dinner.

My mother tells a story about one of her sister-in-laws who came to dinner,
not knowing what was on the menu.  After dinner, she raved about the meal.  My
mother said, "I thought you didn't like deer meat."  She replied, "Oh, I
thought the meat tasted a little off."

Derdriu
swensel at brandegee.lm.com

From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 18:30:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SC - Hunters

<< Do you have to offer free feasts to all the hunters around you? >>

Many of my friends are hunters and since I am somewhat "noted" for my ways
with game, I seem to have no trouble finding it. Usually about once a month
someone leaves me something at work or drops it off on the porch or whatever.
The same is true with fisherman that I know. Recently I recieved several
fresh tuna steaks as a "gift" from one of my customers. Most people would
have broiled them up but I thought the first thing that I saw them...."Ah ha!
Apicius!". And spent the evening redacting 3 recipes for tuna from Apicius'
cookbook.

Just tell everyone about your hobby! Litterally. Throughout the day many of
the customers in the store ask me if I'm working on any new food for that
"history" group. 

The results can pay off in other ways also. 2 weeks ago I was asked to be a
"visiting chef" at Le Jeune Chef, subject: An Authentic Medieval Feast";
price to be: $75.00/per person; Budget: quote "what-ever I need". This
particular restaurant , which is associated with the Pennsylvania College of
Technology (a subsidiary of Penn State University), has won several awards
including  a listing in the  Wine Spectator's Best Restaurants in America. 

So talk, cook, talk, cook and share your best. All things will fall into
place if you are truly a serious student. Time and patience are also a big
plus. This is equally true for any other endeavor. MHO for "bragging"
somewhat but I think that this is a perfect example of how the SCA through
encouraging research and excellence can have a unique and lasting impact on
many non-SCA areas of our lives.

Lord Ras

From: Uduido at aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 08:49:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: SC - itty-bitty fish recipes.

<< I'm not sure where I would find the small fish for the whitebait pancake.
 I'm not about to go out and buy a bag of minnows at a nearby bait shop
 for this.  >>

Why not? That's exactly what the Frugal Gourmet reccommends (as did I) when
doing a recipe for deep-fried baitfish. The farming of fish is no different
baitfish than it is for trout or catfish or any other farmed fish. And fish
is fish. :-) Period ingredients are often times found at locations other than
your local supermarket , and part of the fun of Middle Cookery is trying to
dig up sources for the ingredients. 

I often find ingredients in the most unusual places. For example, when I did
my Middle Eastern Feast, none of the locals would sell me the 2 goats I
needed and the supermarket did not carry goat meat. I went to a live stock
auction and bought them there for half the price that the "pet" breeders were
asking. We raised them for 2 months, milking everyday. We made feta cheese
for the feast from the milk, classes in butchering , hide tanning, knife
handles from bones, and the making of a water bag from the stomach. Very
informative!. :-) Rabbits can often be had for as little as $2.00 a piece
from area kids that raise them as pets. (Fat, juicy and tender! :-))  Special
treats such as dandelion buds can be gathering , blanched and frozen for use
at a later feast when they are in season. And there is no lack of people
around here who need someone to get those "damn" pidgeons out of the attic. 

Lord Ras

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 08:55:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Elizabeth B. Naime" <elspeth at falcon.cc.ukans.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: RE: old breeds and period cooking - chickens and eggs 

> This also means that modern chickens, for example, do not give period
> flavor.  Animals which get a lot of exercise are more flavorful (we might
> even say strong in taste) than what we have now.  So cooking them for a
> couple of days will produce a bland result, with the meat almost cooked to
> nothing.  A elderly, tough old hen or rooster makes a very poor roasting
> bird, but is far better for stew or soup.

Hmm, also the diet of period chickens was probably quite different than
that of today's scientifically raised poultry.  Not to denigrate the
modern hen or her diet -- that would be disloyal, since my grandfather
wrote _The Scientific Feeding Of Chickens_ and was one of the researchers
who made "a chicken in every pot" a reality! -- but free-ranging poultry
pick up a lot of worms and caterpillars and STUFF to supplement their
chicken feed.

One of the places you can find modern chicken breeds getting more
excercise and a more varied diet is any of those country homes with an
"eggs for sale" sign at the roadside.  As a fan of fresh eggs, I'll attest
that eggs from free-ranging or at least yard-wandering chickens are not
like store bought eggs.  The yolks are much darker, and the taste is
richer -- I believe this is due more to diet than egg age.  And ya know, a
hen doesn't lay forever.  In addition to using these sorts of eggs for
period egg recipies, you MIGHT ask a country egg person if they'd ever
consider selling an old chicken.  Still a modern breed, but the excercise
and diet are probably more nearly period.

Elspeth <elspeth at falcon.cc.ukans.edu>

From: "Nancy R. Mollette" <NRMOLL00 at UKCC.UKY.EDU>
To: Lord Stefan
Date:         Wed, 23 Jul 97 12:36:25 EDT
Subject:      marrow and suet

Good afternoon!
               Your easiest and least expensive source for marrow would be
to order beef bones from a meat packer...tell them you're making soup, and have
them cut length-wise for easy removal.

Suet is harder to find; but in essence, suet is to beef fat as lard is to pork
fat....the easiest and most hygenic way might be to render out your own, in
which case, you could probably order the kidney fat of the cow you got the
bones from.

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:00:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uduido at aol.com
Subject: SC - Bone Marrow

<< does anyone have any suggestion on getting bone marrow? Or even suet? >>

Bone marrow is usually not available by itself. However, any good supermarket
usually has marrow bones for sale from the marrow can be extracted. Also a
quick glance through your yellow pages will probably show several butcher
and/or meat shops. If you call them and ask they will most certainly provide
you with all the marrow bones you could want at about 1/3 the cost of the
market. 

A hint> have your meat cutter saw the bones into 2 or 3 inch section or split
them for you. This will save a lot of anguish in the extraction process. Like
anything else substitution of other things may created a tasty dish, but you
will definantly not get the same flavor, texture or apperance that using
marrow provides for.

Suet is for the most part available anywhere there is meat being sold. Be
sure to specify that you want it for "human" consumption as often times suet
is specifically offered for sale for bird feeders. That type often times has
bits of flesh and blood in it or extraneous matter that would make it
somewhat unsuitable for human consumption without extensive pre-preperation..

Lord Ras

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:34:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: rousseau at scn.org (Anne-Marie Rousseau)
Subject: SC - Sources for medieval foodstuffs

Hi all from Anne-Marie.

Looking for medieval foodstuffs is always a fun challenge. Especially 
when you are looking for provisions for a whole barony! We are blessed 
here in Madrone (Seattle) with a GREAT farmers market, but here's some 
suggestions for the rest of you poor saps :)...

- --for produce, try and contact your local farmers market or produce 
stand. If they know you are gonna want three cases of mushrooms, they 
will have them for you. I have also done this with our local regular 
grocery store, when I needed a large number of leeks, out of season. They 
special ordered them for me.

- --for bread, try and contact your local bakery. Even middle america has 
"specialty" bread bakers. We contact "a la francaise" and ask for a pile 
of day olds. Still WAY better than anything you can get at the regular 
store. And cheap!! :D
 --for spices, we go with WorldSPice. Tony is a gem, and will make up 
poudre forte to my own specifications, and grind it for me. Hey, he does 
it all the time for the curry people, why not me?! Fresh spices from him 
cost less than the grocery store ones, and are so fresh you use 1/2 to 
1/3 as much, for further cost savings.

- --for meat, we go with one of the many family owned butchers here in 
town. As has been said before, they will cut it anyway I like, given 
enough notice. This is also true for my local grocer, again, with enough 
notice, but I like to subsidize the local mom and pop shops. 

- --for dairy, we contact a local dairy and get stuff at wholesale. Eggs 
and butter, as well as cream and milk.

- -- we do use Costco, but I personally find the quality much much higher 
from the little local guys.

- --Rosewater, dried favas, pomegranite syrup, etc come from our local 
Middle Eastern grocer. The rosewater is about $3 for 250 mls, WAY cheaper 
than the little old stale bottles you get at the liquour store.

If you read the above, you probably noticed a theme. Local! That in 
itself is a pretty medieval concept...sure they shipped stuff around, but 
if it wasn't in season, they likely didn't eat it. A fact lost on many of 
our supermarket-shopping, meat in a plastic container, milk in a carton 
folks.

- --Anne-Marie, who finds that local purveyors are usually so intrigued 
with why you're buying so many leeks, they end up giving you a discount!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Anne-Marie Rousseau
rousseau at scn.org
Seattle, Washington

Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 13:36:52 -0400
From: marilyn traber <margali at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #258

Uduido at aol.com wrote:  
>My only regret is that the caul was unavailable. My butcher assures me that he 
>can get it if I order early enough in advance.
>
> Lord Ras

I cheat, i get the really cheap bacon with very little meat, and if
teased just right you can make a sort of net out of it, that for
crespinettes and small applications works ok
margali

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:58:05 -0700
From: Ron and Laurene Wells <tinyzoo at vr-net.com>
Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #360

   Someone asked "where do you get quail eggs?" and I never saw a response
to that.  The only way I know to get quails eggs (other than paying a very
high price for them in a specialty shop - IF you can find them!) is to raise
Coturnix Quail (specially adapted to living in captivity) and collect the
eggs yourself.  I had a cockerel and 3 hens once-upon-a-time, and kept them
in a bird cage in the kitchen.  The males can be QUITE loud!  And the shells
on those itty bitty eggs are the thickest and toughest things to get off I
ever saw!  You have to REALLY WANT quail's eggs to go through that much effort.
   An alternative I might suggest would be Bantam Chicken eggs, which are
noticeably smaller than Standard chicken eggs, though obviously larger than
quails eggs.  And they are easier to peel/open.  You can even raise
Auracauna Bantams (or standards, whichever) and get pre-colored eggs -
Auracauna chickens are from South America (nope, not period for the SCA I
guess) and they lay green and blue shelled eggs, as opposed to white or
brown shelled eggs of other breeds.
   To be honest, when I owned the quail, I didn't realize what a delicacy
the eggs were, and found them to be more of a bother than an asset.  I just
thought the birds were cute. 
- -Laurene

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:05:29 -0500
From: Maddie Teller-Kook <meadhbh at io.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #360

I have seen quail eggs for sail in Asian grocery stores.  You might try
there if you have one where you live.

meadhbh

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 20:29:51 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #360

I get quail eggs at many different markets catering to a Chinese
clientele. They are available fresh, and don't cost too much, maybe $3
(Yeah, like the saffron ;  )  ) for perhaps 30 or 36 in a little
styrofoam flat. Remember each one is small, like maybe 1/2 ounce.
Depending on what you want to use them for, they are also available in
cans in the same markets, hardboiled and peeled. Some Chinese cookbooks
list places that do mail order of Chinese ingredients, that should
enable to get you some canned ones, at least.

Adamantius

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 23:04:15 -0400
From: Ceridwen <ceridwen at commnections.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #360

Greetings all from Ceridwen;

    I hadn't seen any reply about the quail's eggs either. I was about
to suggest the same idea, I have been raising Cotournix Quail now for
about a year, caged in the backyard. You are right about the
roosters..(my son says they say "trick or treat") being loud, but all in
all they are a delight to raise.  The only ones i"ve had in the house
were hatchlings too young to go outside yet, and the occaisional
"nursing care".  Yes, the shells are tough, but like chicken eggs, you
must not cook them too fresh, and running them under cold water while
peeling is a help. I did a dish of roasted quail garnished with their
eggs for Art-Sci this past June and scored very well. It seems I have
the local SCA hooked on the eggs... I cook and peel several dozen before
events and put them out  for munchies with lunch.... so far no feastcrat
has objected (I always ask).
    I have found many recipes for quail in medieval cooking, but none so
far for the eggs.. although I suspect they were raised in captivity even
then. One feast manifest calls for 100 dozen quail, in January. I can't
imagine trying to net that many in one hunting party, or several even. I
have found directions for feeding "small birds" betwen capture and
slaughter, though.
    I suppose I could get quail eggs to someone who wanted them.....in
small quantities, (it's molting season and they don't lay as well now.
Most hatcheries do carry them... check Mother Earth News classifieds...
catalogs are free... and live birds are available... not terribly
pricey. The price goes up dramatically for dressed birds.... now that
I've dressed a few I know why!!!!.

Ceridwen
ceridwen at commnections.com

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:49:19 -0800
From: charding at nwlink.com (Cathy Harding)
Subject: Re: SC - Small Feasts

>Maeve said:
>>The day of the contest, I cooked leeks in almond milk, a dish of beans and
>>peas( peas cooked in ale and caraway), hard boiled quails eggs, Hens of
>>greece, ruzzge cakes and a clever dish of plums.
>
>Where did you get quails eggs? Are these something that you find in your
>grocery store? I assume you hard boil them like chicken eggs. Do they
>taste different or are they just smaller or colored differently?

A friend found them in the food coop in Eugene on the way back from an
event in southern Oregon.  I just boiled them like chicken eggs.  they
taste very good, better than chicken eggs.  They are much smaller and the
shells are mottled. Inside they look much like chicken eggs.

>  Stefan li Rous

Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:59:55 -0800
From: kat <kat at kagan.com>
Subject: SC - re:  game meat

Gunthar asks:
> Can anybody help straighten out the best way I can purchase game that is 
> not too expensive? 

Hon, check with your meat wholesaler.  A lot of wholesalers these days are carrying the more "exotic" meats; and if yours doesn't he might be able to direct you to one who does.

Not that it's any help to you in your particular location; but I know there's a meat wholesaler in San Jose where you can get **anything** that's legal to eat in the state.  It can't be the only one in the country...  

	- kat

Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 09:33:37 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: SC - Re: Testicles

Par Leijonhufvud wrote:
> Anyone know of a period recipie? I've had these fried, more or less
> straight of the lamb, but with the recent years things have changed
> (i.e. immigration form other parts of the world) such that it might be
> possible to obtain enough of these to serve at a feast...

I don't recall having seen medieval recipes that refer specifically to
testicles. There are a few Roman recipes for various elaborate mixed
stews and patinae that call for capon testicles, IIRC. Somewhere along
the line I have seen recipes for pig's or lamb's fry, but as I recall,
it wasn't immediately clear whether the main ingredient was testicles or
unborn, fetal animals.

There are some late-and/or-post-period recipes (the ones I have seen are
English, but I suspect similar ones can be found in sources from other
countries, particularly France and Spain), again calling for various
assortments of "dainties", such as cock's combs, capon brains, capon
testicles, sweetbreads, etc., to be used in quelcechoses (a.k.a.
kickshaws) and oleos.

FWIW, you may well be able to find testicles in meat packing plants for
those animals corresponding to the type of animal whose
testicles...well, you get the idea, I'm sure. This can only get more
confusing. In other words, I know you can get capon and/or turkey
testicles, usually frozen in bulk, from commercial poultry packing
plants. I have an Asian market in my neighborhood that sells them in
little plastic trays, like ground beef. For all I know, a similar
situation may exist in the case of lamb. For larger animals like steer,
you won't find testicles because they have been removed in a different
way, before slaughter, and are effectively destroyed. But then I doubt
there's much of a culinary market for testicles you have to carve to
serve, anyway.

Adamantius

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:00:31 -0500
From: Christi Redeker <Christi.Redeker at digital.com>
Subject: SC - Specialty meats

I didn't find an answer to the "What exactly is a game hen" question, but remember goat?  I found a place to buy them and any other speciatly meats... Including musk ox.  They mention game hens, but I haven't found the exact reference as of yet.

http://www.hillsfoods.com/recipes.html

You guys will love this site!!!

Murkial

Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:47:40 -0500From: morganna <themorrigan at softhome.net>Subject: Re: SC - PeacockMichael Clifford wrote:> A couple of years ago on the Rialto there was a discussion on how to> cook peacock,I was wondering if anyone knew of a company who supplied> the bird.>> Guy TalbotWe get them locally from a farm,  they breed them for "pets" people outhere like to keep them on their farms for some reason (they must like blood 
curdling screams all night long - peacocks can be really noisy).Try a local exotic game farm. We have tons of them in the Dakotas that breedpheasants, geese, emu's, ostrich etc.Morganna

Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 21:29:49 -0600
From: Ree Moorhead Pruehs <rpruehs at ismi.net>
Subject: SC - Chinese grocery on Web

Adamantius wrote:
>There _are_ still Chinese groceries that do mail order, aren't there? I know
>many Chinese cookbooks used to have lists of these, with their addresses, in
>the back. Bet there is some place on the Web where you can buy the stuff, too.

I've found one web Chinese grocery (so far) at
<http://www.welcome-to-china.com/mkt/mail/ogs/chin/chin.htm> .... I don't
know how comparable their prices are to having a "local." They also don't
seem to carry anything in the way of flour. Lots of -other- interesting
stuff out there, tho.

Rhiannon Ottersdale

Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:42:21 -0600
From: Shari Burnham <pndarvis at execpc.com>
Subject: SC - Global Marketplace for hard to find ingrediants

Hello List!  I was recently told by a co worker who is a gourmet
(gourmand?) about a web site for finding exotic and hard to find food
items that you can order from.  it is at www.globalfoodmarket.com  It
even has a place where you can email the reps and they will try to find
a specific item for you.

lady elisabeth

Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 17:35:04 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Ideal vs. practical

estria at hotmail.com writes:
<< Yes, also cost in time and effort, but also cost in money.  The example
 that started this discussion was a prime example.

 Estria >>

Cost wise an authentic feast is very similar to any other feast. Oftentimes it
is my experience that it costs considerable less. For instance, I had thought
couscous was extremely high priced for the pretty boxed stuff at my
supermarket until I found it at my local health food store in bulk for 1/10th
the cost. Rice can be gotten in 20 lb. bags for half the price of smaller
bags.

Out of the blue I decided to approach the meat manager at Wegman's and ask
about the possibility of getting goat meat for my period Middle Eastern feast.
He promptly ordered 2 goats, cut in sections, clenaed and ready for cooking.
Price? one dollar and thirty five cents per pound! :-0. At a past feast I
roasted whole emu's (not European period) at a cost of 100 dollars a bird on
hoof. Normal price was 6 dollars plus a pound. My cost approximately 1 dollar
a pound. So the secret is looking around and being creative. :-)

al-Sayyid Ras

Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 07:55:01 -0500
From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <harper at idt.net>
Subject: Re: SC - pomegranate molasses

And it came to pass on 26 Mar 99,, that Stefan li Rous wrote:
> I remember talking about where to get pomegranate juice before
> unfortunately I can't find mention of this in the files in my Florilegium
> I thought I would have put it in. I believe Middle Eastern stores were the
> main place to look for it.

I found some at a Russian grocery near me.  Plain, bottled
pomegranate juice.  The Middle Eastern stores in my area are
mostly Indian/Pakistani, and seem only to carry the syrup.

Lady Brighid ni Chiarain
Settmour Swamp, East (NJ)

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:22:08 -0400
From: margali <margalicuskynolles at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: SC - SCA cordials ......Rum?

you can buy horse meat in the us, I get mine at the Am-Fran
Meatpackers in Plainfield Ct.
margali

Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:00:57 PDT
From: "Kristine Agnew" <kmagnew at hotmail.com>
Subject: SC - Where I found my Wild Boar

Greetings from Boudicca!

   I would be thrilled to share my source of wild boar with the list,
however, I fear that the geographical distance for most would make this a
very expensive luxury indeed.

Candy Mountain Farm - Wild Boar
Ron and Annie Moore
RR#6, Thunder Bay, Ontario (across the border from Duluth MN.)
Canada,P7C 5N5
(807)473-8338

a few more tidbits...

the boars are allowed to free-range all year round, they are not given any
medicated feeds, chemicals or growth hormones and all meat is inspected
prior to sale.

Boudicca :0)

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:53:48 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Recipes 5 & 6

BanAvtai at aol.com wrote:
> And how does one go about asking for a half a cup of
> blood at the supermarket?  LOL This sounds like a Kodak moment.......
>
> Iu'liana

You either slaughter your own animals, and save the blood, or you can
either order it frozen from a good butcher or get it in pint or quart
tubs (a little blood goes a pretty long way in dishes like this) from a
good Asian market (your choice of beef, pork, or duck!).

Adamantius 

Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:28:53 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Recipes 5 & 6

BanAvtai at aol.com writes:
<<And how does one go about asking for a half a cup of
 blood at the supermarket?  LOL This sounds like a Kodak moment.......>>

I just asked when I ordered my goats. The meat manager at Wegman's didn't
blink an eye. Blood is used today in making blood puddings and blood sausages
so I didn't think it odd to ask for it. I asked for 2 quarts of it though not
a half cup. :-)

<< Iu'liana >>

Ras

Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:57:26 EST
From: Devra at aol.com
Subject: SC - OT- interesting catalog

Just thought I'd mention an intersting new food catalog I received, from GOLD
MINE Organic Food Co (800-475-3663)--7805 Arjons Dr San Diego CA 92126-4368. 
www.goldminenaturalfood.com

    Among the other interesting items I noticed were:

    chestnut flour
    Job's Tears (hato mugi)
    teff ("the smallest grain in the world"
    two kinds of red rice and two kinds of black rice
    spelt
    three kinds of naked barley
    hempseed
    Fleur de sel, Celtic coarse light grey sea salt, French Atlantic sea salt
    dulse
    organic rice bran

and a number of other exotic, bizaare (a stone hand-turned grain mill? a
solar oven?) items.  (a ceramic spickling crock?)

Seems worth checking into---  :-}

Devra the Baker
Poison Pen Press  --fine historical cookbooks
www.poisonpnepress.com

Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:06:31 -0000
From: Christina Nevin <cnevin at caci.co.uk>
Subject: SC - Game supplier

To everyone in the UK/Isles, I've found a great bulk supplier of game,
venison and specialty meats:
http://www.hullgame.co.uk

I emailed them and they replied that they do indeed sell to the general
public. Hmm, I can see my smaller feasts bursting out of the
beef/pig/sheep/chicken range already...mmm roast wood pigeon at Lammas...

Lucretzia 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia   |  mka Tina Nevin
Thamesreach Shire, The Isles, Drachenwald | London, UK

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 14:59:27 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - To Rant (Fine tuning my thoughts)

ringofkings at mindspring.com writes:
<< white carrots to name a few) >>

White carrots are not extinct. You can buy the seed through any good seed 
supplier. I have 10 packets laying in front of me now. The seed packet says 
that they were first grown and used in 10th century Persia. They are open 
pollinated so I will be leaving a few to over winter for seed production next 
year (carrots are biennial). Open pollinated purple, red and yellow carrots 
are also available.

There are also period varieties of apples still in existent in the same form 
as they were in the middle ages such as Lady apples. Apples varieties are 
propagated by grafting not by seed so the existing Lady apples are not 
different from the original Lady apple.

Not all gardeners are on the 'hybrid' bandwagon. Many of us take great care 
to plant open pollinated types and save seed from year to year. This doesn't 
mean that serious gardeners shun hybrids but rather a concerted effort to 
keep heirloom and historical varieties alive and well is in place. For 
example, there may be many varieties of dill but some of us still grow and 
use with regularity the standard type that has existed for millennium. The 
same holds true for a multitude of other plants and animals. We have chicken, 
cattle, sheep and plant breeds that were in existence throughout the SCA time 
period. Unchanged. There are organizations whose members go to great lengths 
to preserve and grow the old varieties. One of the new additions to my 
perennial beds this year will be sea kale which I finally managed to track 
down at Thomas Jefferson's home in Montecello. In 3 years I will have enough 
of a stand to serve it at feast. The position that we no longer have foods 
that are exactly the same as those used in the middle ages is an erroneous 
concept. It simply is not true.

Be that as it may, I don't think that those of us on the list that advocate 
being as close to period as possible are out of line. There are standards for 
the practice of any art in the SCA and cookery should be no exception. 
Encouraging beginners to try to be as authentic as possible should be top 
priority in any art form.

There are cooks who present a feast that is clearly not period and they 
deceptively present it as period. There is no problem with beginning cooks 
preparing 'medievalish' dishes or even with advanced practitioners presenting 
fun and/or periodlike dishes or even using non-period ingredients IF they 
clearly state this is what they are doing in their menus. The real problem is 
Kitchen Stewards who dishonor the art by deceptively presenting a dish as 
'period' when it is not. 

So far as ingredients being unavailable locally, many can be grown, most can 
be ordered from somewhere or the other and with a little preplanning they are 
not costly. For instance, Phlip was able to track down rabbits on the hoof 
for a buck and a quarter apiece for a feast. That was much less expensive 
than chicken. I get goat from Wegman's for a dollar and ninety-nine cents a 
pound. Blood is free. Oftentimes they throw in livers and other ingredients 
for a 'donation' mention in the menu or ingredients list flier. Pig heads 
were problematical, I admit but after I suggested that they sell the jowls 
and ears to me and leave the bones, skin and other things attached to them 
there was no problem. 

Game, although not the same species in most instances, is readily gotten in 
my area at least. One of the most often heard phrases is 'Would you like some 
venison? We are getting tired of eating it.' It certainly is not considered 
exotic fare. While it may not be the exact species, it is close and it is 
better than using commercial beef when it is available. The cost is free 
except for a hunting license. The last venison I used was gotten after I 
watched an 18 wheeler turn it's head into a bag of jelly. The police were 
dutifully called and they helped tie it to the car.

Other folks mileage may vary but doing the best you can with what is 
available, preplanning, bulk purchasing, growing your own or having someone 
else grow it, letting the vendors/merchants know what you want in advance, 
and carefully planning the menu around what is available/seasonal and only 
using recipes which contain ingredients that are available will almost always 
result in a feast that  is as close to period as possible for any given area.

Ras

Subject: RE: ANST - snake meat
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 12:14:28 MST
From: CRICKETRED at aol.com
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org

Here's a source for snake meat out of Indiana...Still workin on the
dillo.....

http://www.superiorseafood.com/Exotic.html

ps.. I can't recommend or endorse or anything... just found it in a
websearch.. hope it helps! ~Letha

Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 12:34:38 -0600
From: "Mark.S Harris" <rsve60 at email.sps.mot.com>
Subject: SC - rattlesnake meat

Gunthar,

I did an Internet search and did find one place that sells rattlesnake meat.
Seattle Finest Exotic Meats
http://www.exoticmeats.com
1-800-680-4375

$17.95 per pound. Avg. package: 3 pounds.

They say all their meat is farm-raised.

They do not list Armadillo. However, they do list alligator, antelope,
bear, boar, buffalo, caribou, cobra, duck, elk, emu, frog, goose, 
kangaroo, lamb, llama, ostrich, pheasant, quail, rabbit, rattlesnake,
squab, turkey, turtle, venison, wild boar and wild turkey.

Ras, it sounds like you got a good deal on your emu. This place's
price is $14.50 per pound for emu fillets.

Bear stew meat is: $15.95 per pound and bear B.R.T. (Boned, Rolled, Tied)
roast is $14.95 per pound.

Stefan li Rous
stefan at texas.net

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:20:20 -0800
From: Ron and Laurene Wells <tinyzoo at aracnet.com>
Subject: SC - Grow your own quail eggs?

From: Dana Huffman <letrada at yahoo.com>:

Did the deli mention what the minimum quantity is?  If
it's not too large, maybe you could still get them and
just have some extras with which to try something else
- - -- that pickled egg recipe that's been posted recently
wanders through my mind.  Or would it work with
smaller eggs?  Just an idea...

Dana/Ximena

- - --- Glenda Robinson <glendar at compassnet.com.au> wrote:
> D##n!!!!!!!!
> 
> After all that, the gourmet deli just rang me and said that the quail-egg
> supplier won't send them the eggs, because the quantity is too small!
...

It would take about 4 months to start getting eggs, but have you considered
trying to grow your own quail eggs?  The season for ordering baby quail is
upon us, and there are a couple of hatcheries that send me catalogs, one of
them has an online web site: www.mcmurrayhatchery.com  

There is also another web site that has a whole list of various hatcheries
around the US (and maybe Canada?) that you could try to order for a lower
price.

http://www.cyborganic.com/People/feathersite/Poultry/BRKPoultryPage.html

The Feather Site also has tons and TONS of information about raising
poultry, and pictures of all the breeds that ... exist I think!!!  It is
very informative!
Coturnix quail (the ones that would produce the most eggs for you I think)
are very well adapted to living in captivity.  The Japanese raise them in
cages indoors, and do quite well with them,  The males make very loud
Cuckoo kind of a sound that... when in closed quarters gets to be rather
annoying.  They do breed readily, but they do not raise their own eggs very
well.  To hatch babies (for another generation of egg layers) you would
need to get an incubator... if you enjoyed the experience well enough that
you thought you needed more and wanted to try producing your own.
Generally quail are kept in trios, two females to a male.  I'm sure there
is some variation to this.  Anyway, I have thought about raising quail for
the delicate eggs several times (the shells are a DICKENS to crack
though!!) but so far have not taken the plunge.  Just thought I would
propose this idea to those of you who cater feasts and such on a regular
basis and would find the investment of your own quail worthwhile!  I have
heard they are pretty good to eat too?  So you would have a use for the
cockerels that you didnt keep for breeders.

- -Laurene

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:12:58 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Conch

stefan at texas.net writes:
<< And where do you get conch? >>

I am unaware of any period recipes using conch but would love to see them if 
they are. Scungilli is one of my favorite Italian foods. Conch (i.e., 
Scungilli) is available canned in some supermarkets or can often be found 
fresh or canned in groceries that cater to Italians.

Ras

Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 15:25:37 -0800
From: william wheeler <wuffa at inetarena.com>
Subject: SC - RE: Abalone

Ras , not to say that I am right and you are not BUT you can get fresh
abalone shipped to you anywhere from :

1-888-ABALONE (US Abalone at abmail at usabalone.com )
and for live Abalone The Abalone Farm P.O. box 136 Cayucos Ca 93430
(877.367.2271)for Live Abalone shiped anywhere.

and then the inports for live, fresh frozen, canned and vacuum
packed. http://www.doverabalone.com/

and We supply Live Abalone, Dried Abalone, Canned Abalone, Frozen
Abalone; from Australia
       to any airport in the World. at
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~interon/

Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 08:51:37 -0400
From: margali <margali at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: SC - A new project....

>>>
Now, if you could get hold of some dulse strips, that's your ideal finger
food. Definitely vegan, eminently documentable as a snack (Egill
SkallagrÌmsson was nibbling on them in the 10th century, or so the sagas
say) and quite tasty (at least if you are an Icelander and have been
chewing them since childhood).

Nanna
<<<

I know a source of dulse and other sea vegetables-
Gold Mine Natural Food Co
1-800-475-food
[3663]

Dulse - 2 oz - $4.79, 1 lb - $26.95
applewood smoked dulse - 2 oz $4.99

margali

Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 07:06:40 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - blood

lilinah at earthlink.net wrote:
> Now that i have been assured that blood was indeed used in cooking
> "in period" (not that i doubted it, but i was looking for info - and
> thanks for all the recipes and descriptions), i now inquire as to
> where one might find it... Any ideas, other than haunting slaughter
> houses?
> 
> Anahita

Well, the thing to do is to get somebody else to haunt the
slaughterhouse _for_ you. You can often order blood in pint or quart
containers, either fresh or frozen, from your local butcher (but maybe
not the guy in the supermarket). Really large Asian markets will
sometimes carry it, again, fresh or frozen, usually pork or duck blood,
but occasionally beef.

I've also seen cooked blood, in reddish-brown cakes like tofu, in Asian
markets as recently as last night.

Adamantius

Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 20:31:36 -0400
From: "Diana" <tantra at optonline.net>
Subject: SC - interesting URL - food shopping!

I've found a lovely site that has chestnut flour.
Any ideas what to do with it?

www.ethnicgrocer.com

Diana d'Avignon

Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 23:56:52 EST
From: LadyPDC at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Venison Suppliers?

ldyelisbth at yahoo.com writes:
>      Does anyone have any good links for Venison suppliers?
> 
> Elisabeth

 <A HREF="http://www.gamesalesintl.com/index.html">Games Sales International, Inc., Purveyors Of Exotic Meats And Specialty Foods</A> 

Constance

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 20:34:45 -0800
From: "E. Rain" <raghead at liripipe.com>
Subject: SC - RE: venison suppliers

here's a message a friend sent me about some friends of hers who are selling
bambi.  I don't know about thier shipping options or anything else since i
haven't followed up on this yet myself, but farm raised bambi is not to be
sneezed at....

Eden

> Greetings Eden,
> Last year I told you of some Mundane friends of mine who were beginning
> a business raising Fallow Deer for sale as venison. At that time you had
> many questions I did not know.
> I saw Wilmina & Ivan again at the same art fair and they informed me
> their herd is large enough to begin slaughtering & selling. PLUS they
> now have an email address so you can contact them directly & ask the
> questions I couldn't answer.
> I don't gain by their business at all, just think their venison would
> add a nice touch to feasts.
> They are:
> Black Pine Deer Farm
> Ivan & Wilmina Phelps
> (208)325-8886
> ivanp at ctcweb.net
>
> Go ahead & share this information. The Phelps have heard a little
> something about the SCA from me.
>
> Morgaina

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:08:01 -0800
From: Ron and Laurene Wells <tinyzoo at home.com>
Subject: SC - Black Pine Deer Farm

Hey, WOW!  I've been to this Deer Farm, and have video of the deer on 
tape!  The man was kind enough to give our (rather large) family a tour of 
his farm when we were there last summer.  VERY impressive!  If we can ever 
get our ATI All-in-wonder video card working, maybe I can find that tape 
and get a picture of the deer for you?  Email me privately if you are 
interested.  They are mostly spotted deer.  The meat wasn't cheap if I 
remember, but reasonable for what you are getting!!  These deer are NOT 
abused by any means, trust me!  They have ample romping acerage, trees to 
hide and sleep under, and a rancher who really seems to love them.  He was 
a VERY nice man, and I would love to know people are supporting his 
business!  He's invested a LOT of time and money into his venture, 
including 12 foot fences all around the entire property.  He's done a 
really good job.  OH!  And these are NOT American deer, they are European 
Fallow Deer, as the post mentions.  So you really would be getting 
something close to what Robin Hood might have eaten at your Medieval feast!

Merry Christmas!!
- -Laurene

Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 09:25:24 -0600
From: Diana L Skaggs <upsxdls_osu at ionet.net>
Subject: SC - Buying lamb

>To keep this on topic, I will mention that it is VERY hard, to my disgust,
>to find lamb in Ansteorra.  I spent many years in Chicago, which has a high
>Greek population and I could get lamb any time of the year, in almost any
>quantity (sometimes you had to order ahead for a leg, but there were always
>steaks and ground lamb available).  Here I just see very expensive cyropaks.
>I do like beef, but occasionally want something lamb.  Any suggestions,
>other than stocking the freezer when I see a deal?
>                                        ---= Morgan

I stumbled on to the OSU meat lab a few years ago.  Students training to
become butchers and meat inspectors have cattle, pigs and lambs to
slaughter, inspect and butcher.  They sell meat as a sideline, usually at
better prices than the local stores.  Since they have instructors watching
everything they do, I didn't worry about bad cuts.  Everything is sold
prewrapped and frozen, so you can't inspect by sight.  But, in buying over
several years, I never purchased any bad meat.  

Leanna

Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 09:40:22 -0600
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Buying lamb

Stillwater, Oklahoma, but your local Ag university or college might be a
good place to check.

Bear

> Now where in the phone book would one find an OSU meat lab???
> 
> Olwen

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 18:32:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net>
Subject: SC - Local Harvest search engine

thought this site reviewed on the Librarians Index to the Internet might
be of interest to cooks & feast planners:

"    Local Harvest - http://www.localharvest.org/ 
        This is the retail face of sustainable agriculture! Search
        by zip code for locally grown foods from small farms.
        Database includes farmers' markets, U-Pick farms, farm
        stands, meat/dairy/egg producers, and CSAs (community
        supported agriculture) offering regular delivery of
        seasonal produce to local depots. Also searchable by
        state, crop type, name, or key words from the description.
        Listings include locations, contact information, and lists
        of available products by season. - pf "
- -- 
Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise	      jenne at tulgey.browser.net

Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:32:00 -0000
From: "Olwen the Odd" <olwentheodd at hotmail.com>
Subject: SC - Restaurant Depot locations

Hi all.  When I was at Restaruant Depot buy yet more brie and stuff I picked 
up their sale flyer.  (Speaking of cheap cheese, this week they have blocks 
of mozzarella for $1.25 lb.)  Anyway, they have a website that lists all 
their locations.  If your interested go to http://www.restaurantdepot.com

Olwen

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:10:55 -0700
From: James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: SC - FWD - carrot supplier

>Where in the world can I find red, white, or purple
>carrots?.  I have found a seed supply house for red and white carrots
>but I am looking for a market where I can buy them already grown.  I
>thank you in advance for your kind help.
>
>Steve Vaught

Around Christmas our ordinary local supermarket in Calgary Canada had 
purple carrots on offer (I immediately bought some, of course).

This suggests that some ordinary grocery wholesalers in North America
offer them.  You might try asking your local supermarket for the names 
of their suppliers, and then contact those suppliers.

If you have access to a specialty grocery they might be willing to
bring in a box just for you.
- -- 
Thorvald Grimsson / James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net> (PGP user)

Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 11:14:48 -0500
From: Tom Bilodeau <tirloch at cox.rr.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Game and exotic meat source!

Here is another source of wonderful exotic meats:
http://www.exoticmeats.com/

Phone number is 800-680-4375.

They are located in Seattle.

I have purchased wild boar (YUMMY) and venison from them for high table serving
and for special hoursehold dinners.  They ship the food to you packed in dry ice
and the service is prompt and reliable.

~Tirloch

Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:37:13 -500
From: "Tara Sersen"<tsersen at nni.com>
Subject: Re: SC - pomegarnate juice

>Well, it depends where you look, I think. Look for ethnic grocery stores
>as tiny little 'convenience' stores in the bad parts of the nearest city.

A lot of ethnic restaurants also sell ingredients.  I can get some stuff at
the Lebanese restaurant two blocks from where I work, including pomegranate
juice, bulk bulgar, halava (sp?), and great, fresh pita.  All while waiting
for an awesome falafel sandwich :)

- -Magdalena

Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:35:55 +1000
From: Angelfire <angelfire2 at dingoblue.net.au>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Massively expensive feast WAS: Smithsonian Stuff

Olwen the Odd wrote:
> So...where did you get the camel again???  Never had camel.  I didn't know
> people ate them.  Then again, it never occurred to me to think about it.

> For information purposes in Australia most game meat butcher (those that carry
> the more exotic meat ) carry camel at least in Steak form, I know of several
> in Sydney that do,

Angelfire

Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:47:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Kim Schab <madchefla at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Blood Oranges was Supper Tonight
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

I don't know if anyone is interested but there is a
company called Harvest Sensations which is available
on line and carries a number of unusual specialty
fruits and vegetables, the blood oranges made me think
about it...and they'll fast ship to you.  They also
have a large line of organic lettuces etc.  It's nice
to know when you live in the middle of the desert, I
can still get California produce.

Alessandra

From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:07:37 EDT
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Feast quantities
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

rcmann4 at earthlink.net writes:
> .  I admit to looking wistfully at quail ($5 each),

I've got a local source for quail which, if you buy by the 25-bird pack,
works out to $2.62/bird.  If I remember properly, single birds are $3 each.
It's over here in Northern Lancaster County, PA, probably about a 2 hour
drive from you.  The things are frozen solid; it took over 24 hours for them
to thaw, and I ended up soaking them to get them all the way thawed in time
to cook.  Bring a cooler with you, and they would not be noticeably warmer
when you got home :-)

Brangwayna
PS they also sell 3 kinds of duck and various other sorts of really
interesting poultry, and rabbit.

www.eberlypoultry.com

From: BaronessaIlaria at aol.com
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 15:02:48 EDT
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Fava beans and other things

While cruising for various feast ingredients, I came across The Global
Marketplace (url: http://www.globalfoodmarket.com/ ) and they sell 1 pound
bags of split "baby" fava beans at $2 for 16 ounces and two other types as
well. Among other things, they have the rosewater I was looking for in a 10
ounce bottle for 2.50 (and orange flower water at the same price),
pomegranate molasses in a 12 ounce bottle for 3.75, and other things like
wheat berries, mastic, rose buds, barberries, spanish saffron at 38.00 per
ounce, and galingal powder or dried.

The real problems with using them are: no search function on the website so
you either have to prowl the various sections (dangerous if you like to buy
neat things!) or know where the item you want is likely to come from.
Countries/areas represented are: Eastern Mediterranean, France, India, Spain,
South American and the Caribbean, the Orient, Italy, America, Africa and
"Legumes of the World". Additionally, they have a minimum purchase of $25.00,
but with the variety of spiffy things on the site, that's not so hard to
reach.

Definitely fun to browse if nothing else:  http://www.globalfoodmarket.com/

Ilaria

From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:39:24 -0400 (EDT)
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] listing of local farm markets

I don't know if everyone is aware of this site:
http://www.localharvest.org/

It's a directory of Farmer's Markets, Co-op Farms, etc. by area.

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa

From: "Stephanie Ross" <hlaislinn at earthlink.net>
To: "SCA Cooks List" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>,
   <Trimariscookslist at yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:12:02 -0400
Subject: [Sca-cooks] wild game meats

I had saved this ad in my circular file of period recipes. I thought someone might have use for it.

Game Sales International

Game birds and meats: duck, quail, pheasant, squab, poussin, ostrich, venison, elk, buffalo, veal, rabbit, wild boar, rattlesnake, alligator, kangaroo, lamb

Specialty Products: foie gras, pate, mousse, exotic mushrooms, truffles, seasonings, flavored oils, berries, gourmet rice

1-800-729-2090
www.gamesalesintl.com

Aislinn

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:27:26 -0700
From: Patrick McKinnion <patgund at earthlink.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Yak - The Other Red Meat
To: "sca-cooks at ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

     If anyone has ever wanted to try Yak, this is the place.   They have Yak
steaks, Yak Medallions, Yak Bratwurst, Shreded Yak, Yak Jerky, and Yak
Burgers.
http://www.mcrobertsgourmetfoods.com/

     May have to see about getting some.

     - Padraig o Connell

Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:04:51 -0500 (DT) 
From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" <pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com> 
Subject: [Sca-cooks] froggie cuisine 
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org> 

In my quest for fermented black beans with which to make X in black bean 
sauce, I discovered that one of my local oriental markets* has frogs in 
their freezer--whole frogs. Labelled "FROG". Does one cook a whole frog in 
any Asian cuisine, or does one remove the meaty bits, or what? I've seen 
frog's *legs* at the expensive groceries, but this is definitely an entire 
froggy, on a foam tray wrapped in plastic. 

*and they are all three of them titled "[name] Oriental Market" 

Margaret, wo still has tendonitis and is going out of her mind with 
boredom... 

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:07:13 -0400
From: "marilyn traber 011221" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] substitutes for asses' milk
To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net, Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> someone I was talking to recently was wondering what the closest
> approximation in modernly available milks would be for ass's milk?
> -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, 

Horse milk. It is available, it's just very hard to find, but if you 
Surf the 'Net, you should find sources.

Saint Phlip,
CoD

Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 14:23:36 -0400
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Farmers Market finders
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>,	East Kingdom Cooks
	Guild <EKCooksGuild at yahoogroups.com>

It's that time again, and Librarian's Index to the Internet posted this:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
  2. AMS Farmers Markets
----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Use this site to find a farmer's market in your state and learn
    more about farmer's markets. Includes fact sheets, regulations,
    statistics, and more. From the Agricultral Marketing Service of
    the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

   http://www.ams.usda.gov/farmersmarkets/
-- 
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net 

Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 14:42:31 -0400
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] and another
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>,	East Kingdom Cooks
	Guild <EKCooksGuild at yahoogroups.com>

again from LIIWEEK:

19. Local Harvest
----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Search or browse to find "all the farmers' markets, family farms,
    locally-grown produce, grass-fed meats, and other sources of
    sustainably grown food in your area." Iincludes farmers' markets,
    U-Pick farms, farm stands, meat/dairy/egg producers, and more.
    Listings include locations, contact information, and lists of
    available products by season.

   http://www.localharvest.org/
-- 
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net 

Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 15:48:43 -0400
From: "Glenn A. Crawford" <tavernkeeper at phoenixroost.com>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Red Tower Cooking contest
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>> There are also slightly more exotic, hard-to-find veggies that were common
>> in earlier times, like cardoons or ramps (a type of wild onion or 
>> leek).

>> Vittoria

One of my purveyors http://www.sidwainer.com/ ran a special all last month
on Ramps. They can get a lot of different hard-to-find veggies, but they are an 
East Coast Company.

Terrain

Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:34:22 -0400
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com
Subject: [Sca-cooks] source for unusual produce
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I found a site that ships many kinds of mushrooms, seville oranges,
and many other exotic produce. I couldn't find a price list, I don't
image they are cheap, but it might be useful.

They had good information on what is in season.
http://www.theproducehunter.com/

Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 18:47:45 +0000
From: "Holly Stockley" <hollyvandenberg at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] source for unusual produce
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Not quite.  The Produce Hunter is a strange little character who wanders the
globe in serach of new produce, then introduces it to retailers.  He writes
for Gourmet, the Times, and other publications.  He brought the donut peach
and other rare fruits to prominence.  Looks like he is now hooked up with a
distributor.  While they probably won't sell to you directly, you MIGHT be
able to get a list of retailers.

On the flip side, a LOT of rare fruits are pretty readily available
seasonally to grocery stores.  You might have a polite word with your  
local produce manager and see what he/she might be willing to do.

Femke

> I found a site that ships many kinds of mushrooms, seville oranges, and
> many other exotic produce. I couldn't find a price list, I don't  
> imagine they are cheap, but it might be useful.
>
> They had good information on what is in season.
>
> http://www.theproducehunter.com/

Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 18:11:43 -0700
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 2 Questions: 1 On Fat and 1 Not
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On 5/23/07 2:14 PM, "silverr0se at aol.com" <silverr0se at aol.com> wrote:
> Question 1 - does anyone know of a supplier for pork belly? Between Andreas
> Viestad on New Scandinavian Cooking and Ming there are a couple of  
> recipes I'm dying to try.

99 Ranch Market or any other Asian butcher.  I saw it there just today.
Frequently you will see it sliced like bacon, only not smoky.

Selene

Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 21:20:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carole Smith <renaissancespirit2 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] 2 Questions: 1 On Fat and 1 Not
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Try them.  They are my source for (frozen) ducks and geese out of  
season, and at good prices!
   Cordelia Toser

silverr0se at aol.com wrote:
<<< Thanks, Selene!

I've never been brave enough to look in the meat section at 99 Ranch.

Renata >>>

On 5/23/07 2:14 PM, "silverr0se at aol.com" wrote:
<<< Question 1 - does anyone know of a supplier for pork belly? Between Andreas
Viestad on New Scandinavian Cooking and Ming there are a couple of  
recipes I'm dying to try. >>>

99 Ranch Market or any other Asian butcher. I saw it there just today.
Frequently you will see it sliced like bacon, only not smoky.

Selene

Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:55:20 -0400
From: "Saint Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Game sources (bunny, venison) question
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On 10/12/07, Michael Gunter <countgunthar at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'm doing our Central Regional 12th Night feast and playing with  
> some ideas. Most of the feast will be pretty inexpensive so I may  
> try to spring for a couple of interesting luxury items. One of the  
> things I'm looking at is from Curye on Inglysch, "Hares in  
> Papdeyle" which is a rabbit ragout between sheets of pastry.
>
> This shouldn't take too much rabbit meat for 200 diners, I'm  
> looking at 15 or so carcasses but that will cost me around $200  
> from the sources I've found. Anyone have suggestions of  
> distributors? I'm also looking for inexpensive opportunities for  
> wild game, venison or boar.

Well, when I did the rabbit with Ras, we got it from a local farmer.
All I had to do was go in, tell him I wanted however many rabbits to
butcher on the date I wanted them, and he bred them and had them
waiting. We butchered ourselves, of course, but most people who raise
rabbits will sell them to you either live or dressed. I'd suggest
going down to the local feed store and asking the people there who
raises meat rabbits. Feed store people know that sort of thing, and
you won't risk upsetting someone who keeps them as pets.

There are also people who raise specific beeds of rabbit, on specific
feeds, for fur, and if you find one of those folks, you'd likely get
the carcasses at an even better price. But, start at your local feed
store. They know who's doing what with livestock. I'd make that
suggestion no matter what meat animal you're looking for, including
game animals. Lotta talking gets done in the feed stores ;-) Just make
sure it's the kind that sells to farmers, not the kind that sells to
suburbanites.

> Right now nothing is in concrete, I'm just playing with ideas. I  
> may combine rabbit and chicken to stretch the meat budget further.
>
> Gunthar
-- 
Saint Phlip

Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:58:02 -0400
From: "Kerri Martinsen" <kerrimart at mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Game sources (bunny, venison) question
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Around where I'm at the best 2 places to get bunny are the Base Commessary
($3/lb bone in whole) and the Big Asian Market (Han-Aran) (sp).   Slightly
cheaper than the commessary I think.  Rabbits run around 1.5-2 lbs per bunny.

But that is in Baltimore, MD

Vitha

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris	food-sources-msg	Page  of