Title: freezng-foods-msg
Subject: Comments on freezing foods. Good methods.
Author: Edited by Mark S. Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: freeze, food, storage, cold, technique

freezng-foods-msg – 4/28/13

Comments on freezing foods. Good methods.

NOTE: See also the files: food-storage-msg, drying-foods-msg, Lrds-Salt-Exp-art, pickled-foods-msg, potted-foods-msg, stockfish-msg, canning-msg, bag-cooking-msg.

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:52:46 EST
From: Mordonna22 at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - freezing things

Seton1355 at aol.com writes:
<<  Tofu gets tougher, potatoes get softer, tomatoes turn into sauce. >>

And onions get stronger

Mordonna the Cook,
SunDragon's Western Reaches
Atenveldt
(m.k.a. Buckeye, AZ)

Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:01:08 -0400
From: "Nick Sasso" <NJSasso at msplaw.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Freezing food

I completed my food safety certification this summer (and it was a
hoot), so I I want to add a few documentable cents' worth.  Please be
sure that you are handling the food properly according to food agencies'
guidelines to be sure you are serving safe food.  The general guideline
of thawing before cooking is safe, but not required according to the
June 2002 materials provided by Serv-Safe, the industry standard in
Restaurant Food Safety training.

According to the manual and the standards for the training, thawing of
a food product can be performed as a step in the cooking process, and
the previously cooked food needs to be brought up to 160F in order to be
ensured safe by their guidelines (I can provide chapters and verses if
requested).  You should bring the food through the 40F to 140F zone as
quickly as possible, and stir or agitate often.  Boil in bag will be a
challenge if large quantities are brought to heat at once . . . . gotta
ensure even heat distribution for safe reheating.

The key will be to follow safe freezing and storage techniques at the
front end to increase convenience and safety at the back end.  Cool you
food in flat containers, no more than 2 to 3 inches deep, depending on
food item.  If you were to put your food into the bag and then lat flat
to cool then freeze, you will have a much safer reheat on the back end.

Melting is but one issue for plastics. Remember that there is chemical
leeching that can occur before melting. This could lead to anything
from nothing at all to off flavors to your wonderful meal to adverse
physical reactions in diners sensitive to plastics or their degraded
by-products.  There are products on the market designed for reheating,
and often can be re-used for economy sake.  So, you get to make the
choice yourself (testing might be good here) as to what products you
wish to store and heat in.

pacem et bonum,
fra niccolo difrancesco

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 22:38:33 -0500
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] This 'n that

Also sprach Robin Carroll-Mann:
>What is the best way to wrap large quantities of chicken parts for
>the freezer?

It kind of depends on what you're doing with them. If you need to
cook them from a frozen state (which _is_ doable), you should
probably pack them with something like parchment between them, if
appearance matters, so they can be easily separated. Maybe you could
lay them out flat on a sheet pan (or reasonable, freezer-sized,
equivalent), freeze, and then remove and bag them. If for stock, you
could probably just put them in large, heavy zip-lock bags and be
just fine.

Adamantius

From: "MSN" <clarenburg at msn.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] This 'n that
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 03:06:17 -0800

I just started reading this list so please forgive me if this
information is so commonplace as to be old hat.

When you add stuff to your freezer it warms your whole freezer until the
freezer's compressor eventually cools it again.  When you add a lot of
stuff then the thermal mass becomes large, warming the freezer quite a
lot and requiring a long time to cool back to sub-freezing temperatures.
This has the potential to thaw your other frozen foods which ruins some
(ice cream) and may promote nasty bacterial growth and texture changes
in others.

Moreover, non-commercial freezers do a lousy job of quickly penetrating
more than about two inches into a bag of soup, stew or a heavily sauced
meat dish.  They do a little better with unsauced chicken parts and meat
joints, but not much.  So when you attempt to freeze several bags of
stuff at the same time, the food in the middle of a thick bag -- or
especially in a bag at the middle of a stack! -- will take a *long* time
to cool to freezing and may have ample time to go bad. Keep in mind that
stacking three 2" bags is equivalent to a single 6" thick thermal mass
and the food in the middle will take hours and hours to freeze.

Also remember that the cooling elements in freezers tend to be in the
walls (also in shelves of some upright freezers).  You will want
unfrozen bags to be right next to these elements instead of relying on
other frozen foods to slowly conduct the heat/cold themselves.

But while the freezer is the only way to freeze food, it is not the only
way to quickly cool food.  Be creative and prevent your freezer from
blowing a gasket trying to chill gallons of boiling broth.  A simple
cold tapwater bath will work wonders to bring bags of hot foods below
room temperature.  You can then go further by creating an ice water bath
in a cooler, sink or large pot.  Buying a few bags of ice is *much*
cheaper than ruining a freezer full of food.  The refrigerator is not
usually a great choice for pre-chilling foods because the same
compressor cools both your fridge and freezer (except if you've got a
Sub-Zero).

Finally, exposure to frigid air is what causes freezer burn.  So squeeze
all the air out of your bags before sealing them, and use thicker-walled
bags for longer-term freezing.

Suggestions:
    1)  Keep bag contents' thickness to 2" or less.  Bag lengths do not
matter.
    2)  Space bags evenly throughout the freezer compartment so they
         will not join to create a larger thermal mass. DO NOT STACK
         UNFROZEN BAGS.
    3)  Try to place unfrozen bags next to freezer's cooling elements.
    4)  Don't add too much to one freezer at one time.
    5)  Quickly pre-cool bags of food in ice water baths or the
refrigerator.
         Never stick a hot bag into the freezer.
    6)  Squeeze out all the air and use thick-walled freezer bags.

Nathan Adelaar
(mka Nathan Clarenburg)

From: "Kirsten Houseknecht" <kirsten at fabricdragon.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 12:41:34 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] freezing

vaccum packing lets you freeze meats better than anything.. and a lot of
veggies too...

now i have a vacuum sealer, but if you DON'T have one......you can get close
by these methods........

1. put food in zip lock bag..... close all but small gap in zipper........
insert clean straw into gap... inhale HARD until the bag forms tightly
around the food. withdraw straw and seal bag.  it takes some practice, but
its what i do when i am freezing my homemade bread (the vaccuum sealer
crushes bread..)

2. submerge the zip lock bag in a pan of clean water.. the water should come
up close to the zipper, but NOT get into the bag. the pressure from the
water forces a lot of the air out.  close the zipper, and dry the bag off
before putting it in the freezer (i didnt once... the bag froze to the
freezer tray)

just for the record.. i adore my vaccuum sealer.  i think they are possibly
the greatest way to store stuff like dried beans and grains..... because i
can keep the blasted bugs out of them (we have a *real* bad problem with
grain moths here)  and i havent had any freezer burn on my frozen foods
since i started using it.

Kirsten

Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 09:54:01 EST
From: KristiWhyKelly at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] making ahead and freezing...
To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net, sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Yes, it freezes quite well.  Up to 4 months.

Things I've made and frozen.  Salmon in puff paste, assemble and freeze.
Savory Toasted Cheese does a great boil-a-bag as well.  Just  pop the frozen
sauce into hot water, then when warmed squeeze the bag around until  
the sauce is on longer separated.

Grace

In a message dated 12/5/2004 8:49:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jenne at fiedlerfamily.net writes:

Ok, has  anyone on this list made-ahead applemoys and frozen  it?

Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 18:06:51 -0500
From: Micaylah <dy018 at freenet.carleton.ca>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] making ahead and freezing...
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Ok, has anyone on this list made-ahead applemoys and frozen it?
>
> Any other period dishes that would work frozen ahead? I've had good luck
> with armored turnips (after all, they are just a casserole)...

Losynges and makerouns, tarts, sops, pottages, sauces, frumenty and rice
(vacuum sealed boiling bags), hommous, payne perdue, paté, sawsedge, and so
on.

Micaylah

Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2004 16:46:08 -0700
From: "Kathleen A Roberts" <karobert at unm.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] making ahead and freezing...
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

so many good things to freeze, even salmon and cheese
tarts!

if you can get hold of the rodale, settlement or any of
the encyclopedic cookbooks of the '50s and 60s, they have
freezer charts for ingredients.  there isn't a lot you
can't freeze, if you do it correctly for the ingredients.

and taters are OOP anyway! ;)

cailte

Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 15:56:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Aurelia Rufinia <aureliarufinia at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] making ahead and freezing...
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooksansteorra.org>

For my first feast (which was yesterday) I froze the
rabbit pottage, and stage one of the chicken ambrogino
(browned chicken and onons) and chickpea soup.  Other
than intensive work to thaw the stuff, (boil in a bag
never occurred to me) it worked great and everything
tasted nummy (i'm told, I didn't get a chance to eat
most of it.)

Aurelia

Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 07:54:20 -0600
From: Susan Lin <Shoshanna at caergalen.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Freezing pom seeds, was newbee cook...
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

It also makes for some interesting items in the freezer!  I wanted rutabegas
for Mid-Winter but the farmer's market ended in November so I bought them,
par boiled them and froze them - worked out wonderfully well.

Also berries, the trick is to freeze them on a flat sheet first and then bag
or box them - otherwise you'll likely get a big lump.  They may not be as
firm fresh as the day you picked them but they're still very good to use.

-S

Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 13:26:48 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] freezing flat bread

On Jan 28, 2010, at 1:08 PM, Kerri Martinsen wrote:
<<< Due to things out of my control, I can't make them the night before
the feast (120 of them).

Has anyone had experience in freezing flatbread?
I'm planning on making them on Thursday for feast on Saturday. >>>

You should be able to freeze them with no problem; roti and paratha and chapatis can be purchased frozen. It'll just a question of raw, lightly cooked and then cooked again, or fully cooked, and how they are packed. I'm a big proponent of parchment paper in between the layers.

Adamantius

Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 11:34:13 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <kiridono at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Making verjus

On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net> wrote:
<<< Just sad I can not possibly get fresh pomegranates in March.
Selene >>>

Selene,
I use pomegranates at the end of February...so what I did this past year was
to buy them when they were in season, seed them and freeze the seeds in
airtight bags (used my sealing machine).  Worked like a charm!

Kiri

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:32:00 -0600
From: Susan Lin <susanrlin at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] freezing turnips?

I blanched them (okay, maybe a little more than blanched but not fully
cooked) and froze them on cookie sheets and then transferred them to plastic
baggies.  It worked out just fine.  I froze them from the summer until
Mid-Winter (second weekend in December) -- no freezer burn.

Shoshana

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 1:51 PM, Kathleen A Roberts <karobert at unm.edu>wrote:
<<< Does anyone have any experience freezing turnips?  I do have my "go to"
reference, "The Settlement Cookbook" but I thought that I might also benefit
from some voices of experience.

Do cut and size affect the outcome?  Blanched?  Fully cooked?

I will be using them in my Roman feast, mixed with carrots with a wine
sauce, so I would rather not have to mash them in the end.

Yes, a friend grew some for me.  Her husband likes the greens but not the
root, and I was after the roots, so ... win/win!

Cailte >>>

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 16:48:47 +0000
From: yaini0625 at yahoo.com
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Frozen pomegranate jewels

<<< I have just received a windfall of about two dozen 
pomegranates for free (that should take a hunk out of ye 
olde feast budget). I was thinking of freezing the 
jewels/seeds.

Anyone have any experience with using them after freezing 
and thawing?

Cailte >>>

My Mom used to freeze her pomegranates all the time. When she thawed them out she would place them in a colander with a bowl under it to catch any juice. She also froze persimmons.

Aelina

Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 13:27:08 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <kiridono at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Frozen pomegranate jewels

I purchased several pomegranates last year for an event that comes a couple
of months after they've gone out of season.  I popped the seeds out, put them
on a tray on waxed paper and stuck them in the freezer.  Once they had
frozen, I put them in seal-a-meal bags without vacuuming out the air.  They
worked just fine.  By doing them this way they don't freeze together in one
unpleasant lump.

Kiri

Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 07:36:51 -0600
From: Susan Lin <susanrlin at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] freezing Cream cheese

Yes but in my experience, since the water freezes at a different
temperature, when you defrost it it's never quite the same and depending on
your planned application it may not work so well.

Shoshanah

On Sunday, April 28, 2013, Arianwen ferch Arthur wrote:
<<< I recall someone asking about freezing cream cheese and a little of the
discussion.

I was just going through one of My mothers cookbooks and came across an
article clipped from the Nov 16, 1983 AZ Republic.  "Tips as valuable as
recipes in new cookbook" the cookbook referred to is Everyday and Gourmet
Microwave Cookbook by Marlene Leising.

One time says: "Cream cheese may be frozen.To thaw, remove the foil
wrapper, then cook in microwave 10 to 15 seconds at a time with the dial
set on high. pause between cooking times."

so cream cheese has been frozen...>>>

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris	freezng-foods-msg	Page  of