rec-tim-pray-msg - 6/18/09

Period recipes using prayers for timing.

NOTE: See also the files: rec-in-verse-msg, clocks-msg, Sandglass-art, Watches-art, religion-msg, cookbooks-bib, Redacting-art, redacting-msg, poetry-msg.

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Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 08:11:30 -0400
From: "James of the Vayle" <jamesofthevayle at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Prayers for recipe timing
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 7:11 AM, Saint Phlip <phlip at 99main.com> wrote:
<<< Could anyone who happens to know which recipes direct me to the
recipes that used various prayers for timing? There seems to be a
similar usage going on in period smithing, and we'd like to look into
it more. >>>

There is at least one in the Libre del Coch
*

130. Meat or Fish PASTRY
*

EMPANADA DE CARNE O DE PESCADO

Quote:

And then return it to the oven for the space of a Paternoster and an Ave
Maria.


Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 10:07:51 -0700
From: David Walddon <david at vastrepast.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Prayers for recipe timing
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

In The Epulario (English 1598 translation of early 1500's Italian  
Epulario based on the Martino Corpus) there is a recipe for using a  
prayer for timing. "Let them not boil above the space of three Pater nosters".
Entry # 50) To make a kind of made meat in flesh time. It is attached  
below.

It is not included in the same recipe in De Honesta (Bk VII, entry 50  
Meat Balls). Platina just says "they require little cooking".

Also recipe #251 "To seeth eggs" (attached below) also includes  
prayer instructions. "And make it boil a Pater noster while".

Again this is not included in the De Honesta version of the recipe  
(Bk IX entry, 32 Another), but I am fairly sure that at least in the  
LCMartino it is included.

Those are the only two references in the Epulario.

I do not have the other source materials handy to check. The seven  
sources I usually check and consider when look at a Martino Corpus  
recipe are 1) Martino, MS Library of Congress (LCMartino) 2) Martino,  
MS Vatican (VatMartino) 3) Martino, Riva del Garda (Riva) 4) Platina,  
De Honesta Voluptate (Platina?tr..Milham) 5) Martino B?hler 19  
(B?hler) 6) Rosselli, Epulario (Rosselli) 7)Epulario (EP1598). INote  
that the Buhler manuscript is the one referred to on this list as  
"The Neapolitan Collection".

Eduardo
50) To make a kind of made meat in flesh time.

      Take a pound of old cheese, and a little new cheese, and a
pound of the belly or paunch of a fat Hog, or a Cowes Udder
sod, then take good hearbes well beaten, Pepper, Cloves, and
Ginger, adding thereto the flesh of the breast of a Capon wel
beaten, and all these thinges being well tempered and mixed
together, then make a good past, and lay all ths in the past, and make
make them no bigger than halfe a Chestnut, then fry them in
Capons grease or other fat broth, and make th? yellow with
Saffron, let them not boile above the space of three Pater
nosters, then dish them, and straw them over with grated
Cheese, mixed with other spices. The like may bee made of
Feisants, Partridges, and other Fowle.

251) To seeth Egges with the shell.

      Put them in cold water, and make it boyle a Pater noster
while, and then take them out.
________________________________________________________

David Walddon
david at vastrepast.com


Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 19:02:42 +0000 (GMT)
From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo at yahoo.it>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Prayers for recipe timing
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Here are some findings from various culinary texts. Most of them are online somewhere.

In order to find the relevant places, just search for "pater". 

This if from the 'Ouverture'

Pour faire past?s de caracolle.
Prenn?s les caracoles qui soient bien
cuites & nettoyees comme il appartient, &
les coupp?s grossement auec vn couteau,
& mett?s muscade, poiure, beurre,
ayant est? demie heure dans le four
prenn?s quatre iaulnes d'oeuf debattus
auec vn peu de vin d'Espaigne, tir?s le
paste hors du four, & iett?s la saulse
dans le past?, & le laiss?s encor vne
pater noster dedans le four, & non plus.


This is from Maestro Martino, Riva del Garda manuscript:

43. Per fare ogni sapore de brodetto bono et bello zoe menestre po piglia
tre rossi de ova per menestra et bono agresto et bon brodo di carne o de
capone e se sar? asay meglio uno pocho de safrano con uno pocho de spe-
zie dolze mescolato ogni cossa insema et passa per la stamegna in una pi-
gnata sopra la braxa lunge dal focho menando sempre e come tu vedi chel
cugiale se incomenza ad imbratarse non cessando di menare tanto che se
dicesse duy paternoster et dapoy fa le menestre et mettelle di sopra uno
pocho di spezie dolze fazendolli dolze o brusche secondo lo comune
gusto.

This is from the Libro-de-guisados-translation in the Florilegium:

42. ALMODROTE (31) WHICH IS CAPIROTADA (32)
ALMODROTE QUE ES CAPIROTADA
You shall take partridges and after they have
been well-plucked, put them between the embers; and when they have been
there for the space of a Paternoster (33), take them out and clean
everything off them, and roast them, and baste them sufficiently with
your bacon fat; and when they are roasted, cut them as if to make
portions of them, and then grate good cheese of Aragon that is fine;
and take two whole heads of garlic roasted between the embers and then
peel them very well and cleanly, and grind them in a mortar; and then
put the cheese in the mortar, and resume grinding it all together; and
while you are grinding them, cast a good spoonful of lard into the
mortar, with some egg yolks, and grind it all together; and when it is
all well-ground, blend it with good mutton broth that is half cooled,
because if it were very hot it would consume the cheese; and then make
slices of bread and toast them, and scrape off the burnt parts, and
then scald or soak these toasted slices of bread with good mutton broth
in an earthenware bowl or a deep plate; and then take them out and put
them on a large plate, all around, in this manner: a layer of bread
slices, and another of partridges, and in this manner fill up the plate
with a platform of bread slices and another of partridges; and when the
plate is full, cast the almodrote on top of it all and then take melted lard and scatter it over the plate.

Note 33 by Robin Carroll-Mann: 33) Pater noster, the opening words of the
Lord?s Prayer in Latin. The patridges are to be placed on the coals for
the short time that it takes to recite this prayer. Similar
instructions appear in other medieval and Renaissance cookbooks. See
also recipes 48 and 130.

These are from the Cuoco Neapolitano:

[13.]Brodeto bello 
Per farne .x. menestre, piglia tre rossi d'ova per menestra, he bono agresto, [fo_6r] bono brodo de carne, he uno pocho de zaffrano he specie fine; he miscela ogni cosa inseme he passale per la stamegna, he mittelo in una pignata sopra le braxe, menando continuamente fina tanto ch'el cughiaro se imbraca; he cusi levalo dal focho, continuamente menando per spacio di doi Pater Noster; poi fa le menestre, cum specie dolce de sopra; et fallo dolce ho agro secundo lo gusto del tuo patrone cum agresto ho limoni. 

[33.] Marignani 
Piglia li marignani he falli bene netare he bene mondare sutilmente; poi pone a focho uno pocho de aqua he falli dare uno bullore; che siano tagliati in quarti he pone in quella aqua uno pocho de sale, he non li lassare bullire piu che doi Pater Noster; poi cavali fora sopra uno tagliere he falli sugare; poi infarinali [fo_12r] he frigeli; et como li harai triti, scola fora quasi tuto lo olio; poi piglia una spica de aglio he pistala bene cum uno quarto de quisti marignani; he poi habi uno poco de rigano de quello se mette sopra le alice, he pistalo cum lo aglio cum uno pocho de pane, pipero, saffrano he sale; poi distempera tute queste cose insieme cum agresto he cum uno pocho de aceto; poi getta ogni cosa insiema in la padella a frigere un pochette; poi meteli in piatti he manda a tavola cum specie fine. 


These are also from Martino (online version):

Ravioli in tempo di carne.
Per farne dece menestre: togli meza libra di caso vecchio, et un
pocho d'altro caso grasso et una libra di ventrescha di porcho grassa
overo una tettha di vitella, et cocila allesso tanto che sia ben 
disfatta. Dapoi battila bene et togli di bone herbe ben battute, et pepe, 
garofoli, et zenzevero; et giongendovi il petto d'un cappone 
pesto serebe bono migliori. Et tutte queste cose distemperale inseme.

<<145>>
Dapoi fagli la pasta ben sottile, et liga questa materia ne la pasta
como vole essere. Et questi ravioli non siano maiori d'una meza 
castagna, et ponili accocere in brodo di cappone, o di carne bona, facto 
giallo di zafrano quando bolle. Et lassali bollire per spatio de
doi paternostri. Dapoi fanne menestre, et mettili di sopra caso gratto 
et spetie dolci mescolate inseme. Et simili raffioli si posson fare
di petto di fasani et starne et altre volatile. 


Ova tuffate con la sua cortece.
Metti le ova fresche in l'acqua freda, et falle bollire per spatio 
d'un paternostro o un poco pi?, et cavale fore. 


[Per fare dece menestre di brodecto.]
Per fare dece menestre di brodecto piglia trenta rossi d'ova, et
bono agresto, et bono brodo di carne, o di cappone che serr? assai 
meglio, et un pocho di zafrano, et un poche di spetie dolci, et mescolale 
inseme, et passale per la stamegnia et ponile in una pignatta, et
mitti la ditta pignatta sopra la brascia longi dal focho menando 
continuamente col cocchiaro; et como tu vedi che lo cocchiaro comincia 
ad imbrattarsi levala dal focho; et non lassare per? di menare col
cocchiaro tanto che dicessi doi paternostri. Dapoi fa' le menestre et
mettegli un poche de spetie dulci di sopra; et fa' che scia dolce o
agro secundo el comune gusto. 

This is one of the recipes form Martino, Ms. Urb. Lat.


77. Per fare raviuoli in tempo di carne
(P)er fare dieci minestre togli meza libra di caso vecchio e uno pocho
daltro caso grasso e una libra di ventrescha di porco grasso ho vuoi
una tetta di vitella et quocila alesso tanto che sia ben disfatta dipoi bat-
tila bene e togli di bone herbe bene battute e pepe garofali e gengiano
et giungendovi d petto di uno capone pesto sarebbeno migliori e tutte
queste cose distemperale insieme dipoi taglia la pasta bene sottile e lega
questa materia nella pasta come vole esse e questi raviuoli non siano
magiori di una meza castagna e ponili aquocere in brodo di capone 
ho di carne buona fatto giallo di zafrano quando bolle e lassalo bollire
per ispatio di due paternostri dipoi fanne minestre e mettili di sopra ca-
so grattato e spetie dolce misticate insieme e simili raviuoli si possano
fare di petto di fasani e stame e altre volatilie.

Here is an example, where an Ave Maria is mentioned in addition (1529):

EMPANADA DE CARNE
O DE PESCADO.

As de tomar la carne o el pescado y darle vn heruor,
massi fuere carne hierua mas que el pescado, y desque ayabien
heruido quitarlo del fuego y ponerlo en agua tria, y' despu?s
hazer la empanada y ponerle la carne o el pescado cortado a pedazos
peque?os tan grandes como los dosdedos, y avn menores,
y ponlos enla empanada, y despu?s ' 'vaya al homo, y hazer
vn agujero encima del cobertor d?la empanada porque pueda
espirar, que de otra manera re-bentaria enel homo, y quando pusieres
la carne enla em-panada poner tambi?n la salsa fina con
ella y si fuere de pescado carga la. mano enla pimienta, y si
de carnecargar la mano enla salsa, y vn poco antes que sea hora
de... sacar la empanada del homo poner por el agujero hueuosbatidos
en vna escudilla con agraz o con zumo de naranjao vinagre blanco
rosado, y despu?s tomarla al homo por, espacio de vn Pater
noster y vna Aue maria, y sacarla y ponerla enla mesa.

This one is from the Catalan De Nola (online somewhere, I don't remember exactly where it was):

Potatge de Almadroch
     Es menester que prengues perdius e que les plomes be: e com sien ben plomades e netes met les entre dues sendres viues: e quant hi hauran estat tant com dir vn pater noster trau les ne e fes les belles detot e met les en ast e vaja<n> al foch a rostir e donals lart bastantment: e quant sien cuytes talla les totes a quartes he apres pren bon formatge de Arago que sie fi he rallal be: e com sie ben rallat pren dos caps d<e> alls que sien ben cuyts entre dues brases: o sendres: e com seran cuyts fes los nets de tot e picals be en vn morter: e qua<n>t sien ben picats metras lo formatge enlo morter: e tornar ho has tot a picar ensemps he mentre q<ue> picaras met enlo morter vna bona cullerada de mantega ab vns quants rouells de hous e picau molt be ensemps: e com sie tot ben picat destemprar ho has ab bon brou de molto que sia mig fret perque si era massa calt faria pendre lo formatge he apres pren de bon pa e fes lesques axicom los dos dits e torrals gentilment en manera que sien rases dela cremadura e apres escalda les dites torrades ab vn gresal fondo ab bon brou d<e> molto: e apres trau les e pren vn gran plat e met les torrades en lo plat entorn entorn de aquesta manera vna tallada de pa e altra de perdius: e axi vmpliras tot lo plat: e com sera fet de aquesta manera metras lo almadroch axetat sobre les dites tallades: e apres pren aximateix mantega e fes que sie fusa e apres regalant mer la desobra lo plat deles tallades: e vet ja fet.

E.


Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 18:05:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Helen Schultz <meisterin02 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Prayers for recipe timing
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I was looking through my copy of Maestro Martino for something else this aftenoon and ran across this one...

Eggs Coddled in Their Shells
Place fresh eggs in cold water and boil for the time it takes you to say a Lord's Prayer, or a little bit longer, and remove.
The note with it says it takes about one minute to say a Lord's Prayer.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Meisterin Katarina Helene von Sch?nborn, OL 
Shire of Narrental (Peru, Indiana) http://narrental.home.comcast.net 
Middle Kingdom 
http://meisterin.katarina.home.comcast.net 


Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 13:35:40 -0400
From: Suey <lordhunt at gmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Prayers for recipe timing
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Phlip's original question was:
<<< Could anyone who happens to know which recipes direct me to the
recipes that used various prayers for timing? There seems to be a
similar usage going on in period smithing, and we'd like to look into
it more. >>>

Of Nola's recipes he calls for a Paternosters in
his recipe number  /      Brighid's number
     xxii-1                   42               Almodrate which is capirota
     xxiiii-1                 48               Kidpie
     xliiii-2                130               Meat or fish pastry

See:

_Guisados1-art_. On line Posting. June 6, 2001. April 24, 2003. Recipes 
1-179.

<http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-MANUSCRIPTS/Guisados1-art.html>

. . . "An English translation of Ruperto de Nola's 'Libre del Coch.'" 
_Stefan's Florilegium Guisados2-art_. On line Posting. June 6, 2001. 
August 4, 2002. Recipes 180-243. 
<http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD-MANUSCRIPTS/Guisados2-art.html>


The latter recipe calls for an Ave Maria as well. Perez, one of the 
translators of Nola from Catalan to Castellan, states that recipes 
asking for the Creed and prayers for Our Lady are also prevalent during 
this period,..

I have a feeling that Sent Sovi calls for prayers for timing but I don't 
trust my Catalan enough to translate it and put them into my computer. 
As Amazon has advised, we will be receiving the new translation soon, we 
hope.

Also I do not have the texts of  the Archpriest of Hita or Don Quijote 
in my computer but these writings deal more with gluttony or starvation 
make for bad humors or bad health than with the cook and cooking. Both 
would have to be reread in search for such an item which is a lot of 
reading for one phrase.

I do not cover Diego Granado, Phillip II's chef, but he is another 
possibility.

Someone back there mentioned that the size of chicken eggs was smaller 
in the Middle Ages then now making boiling time shorter as we still do 
with partridge eggs. Also, except for the Lent season, which coincides 
with the mating season of birds, more or less, eggs from all kinds of 
fowl were consumed as today country estates, manors and woodlands 
collect various varieties of winged creatures that left and continue to 
leave eggs for the creatures who find them consumable!

Suey


Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 13:11:44 +1200
From: Antonia Calvo <ladyadele at paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Prayers for recipe timing
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Helen Schultz wrote:
<<< I was looking through my copy of Maestro Martino for something else this aftenoon and ran across this one...
Eggs Coddled in Their Shells
Place fresh eggs in cold water and boil for the time it takes you to say a Lord's Prayer, or a little bit longer, and remove.  
The note with it says it takes about one minute to say a Lord's Prayer. >>>

I make it 30 seconds, with careful enunciation :-)
-- 
Antonia di Benedetto Calvo


Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 19:16:00 -0600
From: James Prescott <prescotj at telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Prayers for recipe timing
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Not just the one cited, but two recipes use paternoster in Lancelot de Casteau,
Ouverture de Cuisine, 1604.

Thorvald

PS: The way I recite the Latin paternoster, it takes about 20 seconds.


Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 20:22:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Sydney Walker Freedman" <freedmas at stolaf.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Prayers for recipe timing
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I chant the paternoster, and it takes about a minute.

Lady Cecilia de Cambrige


Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 08:12:13 -0600
From: "Kathleen A Roberts" <karobert at unm.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Prayers for recipe timing
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 20:22:58 -0500 (CDT)
  "Sydney Walker Freedman" <freedmas at stolaf.edu> wrote:
I chant the paternoster, and it takes about a minute.

That is interesting.   Certainly will extend the life of 
any prayer/piece.  and depending on how many notes you put 
on one syllable.  could be the difference between medium 
and well done.

When I was a choir girl, lo those many years ago, they 
were phasing out the latin masses into the english masses. 
it was amazing how much quicker the high masses were in 
english.  and then we got into folk masses, and singing 
the kyrie was never the same again.

i loved the sound of the old latin masses... i think we 
lost a lot of ceremony and import then.

cailte


Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2008 11:09:28 -0400
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Prayers for recipe timing
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Fri, 2008-06-06 at 07:53 -0700, David Walddon wrote:
<<< Three minutes seems much more reasonable for a soft boiled egg than  
60 seconds in Thorvald's case and 90 seconds in the other case.
But I can't get it to be more than 30 seconds either!
What specific chant are you using to draw it out to a whole minute.
And what do you all think Martino would have used when saying the  
Pater Noster? Is there a version from the mid-to-late 1400's in Italy  
that is longer?

Eduardo >>>

Doesn't Martino also specify putting the eggs (possibly smaller than
we're used to?) into cold water, and then boil them for the space of a
paternoster? Doesn't this then suggest there's an indeterminate period
on the fire while we wait for the water to come up to a boil? It might
not be so unreasonable after all.

I'm reminded of having to boil eggs for my station at Le Colombe d'Or,
and being required to do it The Official Way the executive chef wanted
it done, which involved putting the eggs into hard boiling water (cracks
were of secondary importance to a specific yolk color) and boil them at
a full boil for eight minutes.

Kinda the opposite of Martino's method.

Adamantius  


Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:16:30 -0700
From: David Walddon <david at vastrepast.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Prayers for recipe timing
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Ova tuffate con la sua cortece.
Metti le ova fresche in l'acqua freda, et falle bollire per spatio
d'un paternostro o un poco pi?, et cavale fore.

You are right you put the egg in cold water and boil for the space of  
a pater noster.

So once the water comes to a boil let it do so for 20, 30 or 60  
seconds depending on how you chant the pater noster.

I think I will be eating soft boiled eggs this morning. Three of them  
at each of the intervals.

Eduardo


Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2008 12:37:41 -0400
From: Sandra Kisner <sjk3 at cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] cooking and the rosary
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

<<< I ended up in a discussion at Pennsic with a gentle who was recounting the period use of telling the rosary as, effectively, an egg timer. As it was one of those passing conversations that just happen in the merchant area, I didn't think to ask *where* he had found this, other than in a cookery book.
Does this use jog anyone's memory? A citation would be lovely, though I'll
happily take whatever anyone can give me. >>>

 From a post in 2002:

Here are four from the Libro de Guisados:

# 42
Almodrote, which is Capirotada
"You shall take partridges and after they have been well-plucked, put them
between the embers; and when they have been there for the space of a
Paternoster, take them out and clean everything off them, and roast them..."

# 48
Kid Pie
"...and a little before you remove it from the oven, beat some eggs with
verjuice or orange juice and put it in the empanada though the vent hole on
the top of the empanada, and then return it to the oven for the space of three
Paternosters ..."

# 130
Meat or fish Pastry
"And then return it to the oven for the space of a Paternoster and an Ave
Maria."

# 92
Casserole for Invalids
"...and then return it to the oven and leave it there for the space of a
credo..."

Brighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom


Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:37:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marcus Loidolt <mjloidolt at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sca-cooks Digest, Vol 29, Issue 26
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Benedicte,
I believe...without having said tomes to hand...To the King's Taste and Two Fifeteenth Cent cookbooks both descibe having something...usually eggs or mushrooms, stew or boil 'a Pater Noster while'? Now it could be argued that said measuring device could be protracted for an entire rosary...though that isn't likely to me...AND you also have the variance of how fast an individual might mutter through his/her prayers as opposed to saying them devoutly and sustinctly...

It takes MOST people about 30 seconds to say the Lord's Prayer/Our Father/Pater Noster at a moderate devout pace. It takes about 20 seconds to add the Angelic Salutation/ Hail Mary/ Ave Maria. and another 15 seconds for the Gloria or Doxology and it might take you a minute even to say those three. Hardly enough for a rosary which would be essentially 150 times as long...Most circles say a decade/ 1 Pater Noster, 10 Aves and 1 Gloria in about 5 minutes...taking about 1/2 hour to say five decades or a chaplet.

I know my own grandmother used such a device for timing eggs and such, ie, put the eggs to boil, say a decade of the rosary with Archbishop Sheen on the radio and have the eggs done when she finished...

I know from my own experience that a Pater Noster while is just enough time to blanche most vegetables to my liking and to scald a chicken before plucking!

Johann von Metten


Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 09:05:12 -0600
From: Alexandria Doyle <garbaholic at gmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Timing with Paternoster's
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

The other night while going through a 15th century painting manual
looking for information about brush making, I was skimping through the
receipts for preparing various pigments, through the washing
straining, grinding, etc I noted two instances of using the
paternoster to time a holding period.  In one recipe it was for the
length of one paternoster, the other it was ten.  The manuscript was
written in Italian/Latin and the book I was looking at included the
original as well as the English translation.  It is available through
google books, Mrs Merrifield the author, and of course, I'm at work
and the copy I've saved is at home and I'm drawing a blank on the
exact title, except it has to do with Treatises on the Art of
Painting, volume II.  I know that I found it doing a search for books
on oil painting.

these two mentions were within the first fifty pages of the pdf file.
I wasn't going too in depth at the time, so there may be more
mentions, and when I get a chance to print it out I'll look for more,
if anyone is interested.

alex


Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 21:43:30 -0600
From: Alexandria Doyle <garbaholic at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Timing with Paternoster's
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Original Treatises, dating from the XIIth to XVIIIth Centuries on the
arts of Painting, oil, minitature, mosaic and on glass; of gilding,
dying and the preparation of colours and artificial gems.
by Mrs. Merrifield, in two volumes -vol.II

Bolognese Manuscript entitled "Segreti per Colori"
pg 354 of the book/46 of the pdf first mention of "resting for the
length of a pater noster"
pg 362 of the book/pg 52 of the pdf "let it remain for the space of
ten paternosters"
Both of these mentions are in regarding to making azure.

there's more to the manuscript to go through, but I thought you all
might like the details on these tidbits.

Just the first three words of the title on google books brought up
several listings for it.

alex


Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 16:35:35 -0400
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcarrollmann at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] crisping birds
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius
<adamantius1 at verizon.net> wrote:
<<< It's not clear what the intent is. As Brighid suggests, it could be singeing (to remove hairlike pinfeathers). On the other hand, it could also be to warm the outer surface and soften the skin to prepare it for larding.

Are you quoting a specific recipe? What comes next? >>>

I'll take the liberty of replying, since a quick check shows that it's
from my translation of de Nola.
Recipe #42

ALMODROTE (31)  WHICH IS CAPIROTADA (32)
      ALMODROTE QUE ES CAPIROTADA

You shall take partridges and after they have been well-plucked, put
them between the embers; and when they have been there for the space
of a Paternoster (33), take them out and clean everything off them,
and roast them, and baste them sufficiently with your bacon fat; and
when they are roasted, cut them as if to make portions of them, and
then grate good cheese of Aragon that is fine; and take two whole
heads of garlic roasted between the embers and then peel them very
well and cleanly, and grind them in a mortar; and then put the cheese
in the mortar, and resume grinding it all together; and while you are
grinding them, cast a good spoonful of lard into the mortar, with some
egg yolks, and grind it all together; and when it is all well-ground,
blend it with good mutton broth that is half cooled, because if it
were very hot it would consume the cheese; and then make slices of
bread and toast them, and scrape off the burnt parts, and then scald
or soak these toasted slices of bread with good mutton broth in an
earthenware bowl or a deep plate; and then take them out and put them
on a large plate, all around, in this manner: a layer of bread slices,
and another of partridges, and in this manner fill up the plate with a
platform of bread slices and another of partridges; and when the plate
is full, cast the almodrote on top of it all and then take melted lard
and scatter it over the plate.

And the footnotes for this recipe:

(31) Almodrote is a garlic-cheese sauce.  In the Libre de Sent Sovi,
it is an accompaniment to roast pork, partridges, or chicken.

(32) Mentioned in Arte Cisoria as a dish that can be made with roasted
hens, partridges, or doves, usually layered between slices of bread.
The etymology of the name is a bit uncertain, but may derive from
capirote, "hood", because the sauce covers the dish just as a hood
covers a head.  See also recipe 164 for a version made with truffles.

(33) Pater noster, the opening words of the Lord's Prayer in Latin.
The partridges are to be placed on the coals for the short time that
it takes to recite this prayer.  Similar instructions appear in other
medieval and Renaissance cookbooks.  See also recipes 48 and 130.

The Spanish that I have translated as "baste them... bacon fat" is
"darles su lardo abastadamente".  I don't think I've seen Spanish
recipes that call for larding -- only barding and basting.

Brighid ni Chiarain

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	rec-tim-pray-msg	Page 13 of 13