Title: flags-art
Subject: flags and banners in the SCA
Author: Edited by Mark Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: medieval, SCA, flags, banners, heraldry

flags-art - 7/12/94

"Display of Mundane Heraldry in the SCA" by Ioseph of Locksley.

NOTE: See also the files: banners-msg, arms-humor-msg, heraldry-msg, heraldry-bks-msg, mottoes1-msg, Herald-Embro-art.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

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Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: locksley at indirect.com (Joe Bethancourt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Flags at Pennsic
Date: 27 May 1994 02:26:45 GMT

I was asked to post this....it was a TI article not too long ago.

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DISPLAY OF MUNDANE HERALDRY IN THE SCA
-Ioseph of Locksley OL,OP, &c

        I must begin by saying that even though I am an old, used Laurel 
King-of-Arms, any statements I make concerning heraldic practice are purely 
MY opinion(s) and NOT necessarily those of the College of Arms of the SCA, 
Inc.  

        Now that we have that out of the way......as all of us are, I hope, 
quite aware, Society heraldry is meant for SCA use only. It's registration 
within the Society grants no mundane rights, and, in some parts of the 
mundane world, such as Scotland, it's use in the wrong context could get the 
unaware medievalist in much deep hot water. 
 
        "Mundane" heraldry has much the same position in the SCA. If one 
really holds a Grant from Scotland, England, Spain or other such recognized 
Colleges of Arms, then, maybe, you could use it in the Society, altho this 
question has been sedulously avoided by the SCA College. The first Clarion 
King-of-Arms of the SCA (the late, and lamented, Master Randall of Hightower) 
once said: "Real Arms are defended by Real Steel. DON'T use them." 

        However................(there's always a "however" to everything. 
Have you ever noticed that?) 

        There are numerous heraldic items (I do NOT call them Arms or Devices 
because they're NOT) from mundane history that can be used with impunity in 
the SCA. The most commonly seen is the Scots Clan Badge. This always takes 
the form of an heraldic badge encircled by a strap-and-buckle arrangement, as 
ONLY the Chief (recognized as such by Lyon King-of-Arms of Scotland) wears 
simply the plain badge without the strap and buckle....and ONLY that mundane 
Clan Chief wears that badge with feathers in it.  

        It normally appears on the bonnet, but can be used to pin up the 
Great Plaid on one's shoulder. Ladies wear it according to their fancy, but 
NEVER on a bonnet, as that is an article of man's apparel...remember, one of 
the charges against Jeanne d'Arc that led to her burning was that she wore 
men's clothing.....and it is not appropriate to paint this badge on your 
shield, as that is the rightful place for your personal SCA device/Arms.  

        Perhaps the most common "generic flag" that can be used by anyone is 
the "national" flag. At the end of this article is a list of such, with the 
"nation" that used it. Note that some of these nations no longer have an 
independent existence, but DID exist in the period covered by the SCA. Be 
advised, however, that I have only listed those that I personally have 
authenticated as being used in the Middle Ages/Renaissance as "national" 
flags and NOT as Royal Arms. Confusion exists on this matter even among 
heralds, so go carefully and softly in your own research, and double-check 
EVERYTHING!  

        These flags can be used independently, or in the hoist of a Standard, 
as is explained in any decent heraldic text, and can thus indicate your 
persona's national origin, or even century of origin if the viewer is up on 
their historical heraldry. Under NO circumstances should you combine an SCA 
Kingdom's National Ensign (if it has one) with one of these mundane designs 
on a standard. Not only is it poor heraldic usage, it is wrong heraldic 
usage.  

        Have a good time with these, because, in period, an encampment would 
be liberally decorated with both the "national" banner and the banner of the 
ruling Noble. For a large household, this would be a nice project for each 
member to build a "national" flag. Some SCA Kingdoms have their own 
"national" flag, and this could be added in, along with the flag of the SCA, 
for an incredibly pretty display of perfectly period heraldry. 
 
        A Cavalier persona has yet another option. It was quite common for 
the Cavaliers, and the Roundheads, to fly flags with odd, very personalized, 
designs that were NOT heraldic at all, usually in company with personal 
mottos, slogans and so forth. I fly one, illustrated here, that gives my 
feelings about the question of the SCA's period ending at 1601 or 1650 CE.  
The motto translates as: 

        "Thanks be to God for we have got the Arquebus, and THEY have 
         not!" 

        But, being in Latin, or at least a nice Dog-Latin of the period, it 
looks quite nice, and says what I want to say....bugs the Heralds, too! If 
you want a look at such flags, check out the Regimental Flags of the English 
Civil War. Very interesting things!  

        Such mottoes or slogans can say pretty much anything...if it is at 
all wierd, or possibly offensive, or out-of-period.....say it in Latin.  

        The SCA makes no bones about it's attitude towards matters of 
Religion, but this part of life played a LARGE part in peoples' existence in 
the real Middle Ages and Renaissance, so the lack of proper displays of such 
things has always bothered me.....yes, I know that the PROTESTANTS out there 
are jumping up and down about "graven images being a vain and useless 
thing..." but.....look at any Central and South American religious festival.  
You will see Gonfanons being carried that have, essentially, not changed 
since the late Middle Ages. These hanging banners ( NOT flags ) usually 
display an ornate representation of the Saint, or of Mary, or whoever, with 
certain things added that are their attributes or symbols, such as Mary's 
traditional blue robe and Halo, or the Sacred Heart of Jesus of Nazareth, and 
so forth.  

        This opens up a whole field of interesting possibilities....obvously 
the Roman Catholics have a whole mess of stuff they can use, but what about 
the Neo-Pagans out there? (Yes, there are a LOT of them in the SCA) 

        How about a representation of Freya, with halo and cats at her feet? 
Or Thor as a medieval knight, but rather than carrying a sword he would hold 
a hammer, with a background of storm-clouds and with two goats to either side 
of him.......or how about three Ladies, one young, one middle aged holding a 
baby, and one old? The possibilities are endless, but remember to pattern 
them on the Christian banners, to keep to the "authentic" part of the 
SCA...after all, in most of Europe pre-1650 paganisim was a Capital 
Crime.....  

        And for you Protestants......you fall into pretty much the Cavalier 
style of flag, if not the period, so make some yourselves and have a good 
time, too! I recall seeing one period flag as: "Or, above a Death's Head 
between two thigh bones argent the motto "No Popery" gules." 

        Just remember not to be offensive by it, as religion is a touchy 
subject with many people, and mundanes might not understand our sometimes 
warped senses of humor. If you can render a Pagan Goddess or God to look like 
an ordinary Saint, until very close inspection accompanied by knowledge, then 
you have done it right.  

        The bottom line in any of this, as in any SCA endeavour, is RESEARCH.  
Research your persona. Check and double-check what "nation" you would be 
associated with, and check and double-check what flag(s) would be 
appropriate, and be VERY wary of Royal Arms masquerading as "national" flags.  
AND DON'T USE THE UNION JACK OR THE SCOTTISH ROYAL ARMS!!!!! This last is a 
common error that many people, even in the mundane world, fall into. It never 
ceases to make my teeth itch to see someone at a Highland Games flying a flag 
of the Scottish Royal Arms....those are the PERSONAL arms of the Queen (at 
the moment) and NOT available for just anyone to use! The modern Union Jack 
is NOT a national flag, and is out-of-period anyway, though the older Union 
Flag would be appropriate for a post-1606 persona.....unless you are a 
Scottish Nationalist.  

                              THE FLAGS 

NOTE: This incorporates the suggestions made by Master Bruce 
      Draconarius, Principal Herald for Caid, in Tournaments 
      Illuminated, Fall 1989, Issue 92. Thank you, Master Bruce!  

Wales: Per fess argent and vert, a Dragon passant gules.  nb: this is 
        possibly out of period, as the blazon was not official until 
        1958 CE. The design is ancient enough that I would accept it.  

Ireland: Vert, a Harp Or.  

Cornwall: Sable, a Cross argent (modern, but acceptable...)

Denmark: Gules, a Dannebrog Cross argent.  (this is the oldest national 
         flag in use, dating from circa 1219 CE) 

Sweden: Azure, a Dannebrog Cross Or. (post 1500) 

Netherlands: A tricolour per fess of orange, argent and azure.  (adopted 
             1579, the orange was replaced by red in 1650) 

France: Azure, a Cross argent. (This is argued by Master Bruce 
        Draconarius, but period illustrations show this used as a livery 
        badge on French soldiers.) 

England: Argent, a Cross gules.  

Scotland: Azure, a Saltire argent.  

Burgundy: Argent, a saltire gules.(nb: now used by the State of Alabama, 
          USA) Argent, two staves raguly in saltire thruout 
          gules.(better for period style and usage..) 

Switzerland: Gules, a Cross humetee argent (1339) 

Russia: Argent, a saltire azure (late 1500's) Argent, a mounted St. 
        George, bearing argent a Cross gules, slaying the Dragon, all 
        proper (usually represented with a lance with heraldic 
        pennoncel, but sometimes with sword and shield with the Cross on 
        the shield and/or surcoat.) 

                         OTHERS OF INTEREST 

       (Not National flags, but good generic stuff for the SCA) 

Pirate flag: sable, a skull and crossbones argent, or some such 
             variation in white on black or black on white. Some nice 
             mottoes, NOT in Latin, would also be appropriate.  

"Viking flag": Argent, a raven displayed sable. The period authenticity 
               of this one is very much arguable.....  

Arab flags: usually come in green, white, black or red, with quotations 
            from al Qu'uran (Koran) on them. The most common quote is 
            "There is no God but God, and Muhammad is the Messenger of 
            God!" The background tinctures usually denote a ruling 
            dynasty, but not always.  

Generic Barbarian: Dig up a skull of a Horse, or Cow, and mount it on a 
                   pole with nice "festoonies" made up of horsetails, 
                   strips of leather or cloth, scalps &c. Bells are a 
                   nice touch, too.  If you can get hold of one of the 
                   plastic reproductions of a sabre-toothed Cat's skull 
                   it would be nifty! There's a place in North Carolina 
                   that offers them....expensive, but the looks of shock 
                   on people's faces would be worth it!  

                  - copyright 1988 W. J. Bethancourt III 

            ------------------------------------------------
locksley at indirect.com           PO Box 35190        Locksley Plot Systems
White Tree Productions      Phoenix, AZ 85069 USA         CyberMongol Ltd

If this article is reprinted in a publication, I would appreciate a notice in
the publication that you found this article in the Florilegium. I would also
appreciate an email to myself, so that I can track which articles are being
reprinted. Thanks. -Stefan.

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris	flags-art	Page  of