Home Page

Stefan's Florilegium

Enchnted-Grd-msg



This document is also available in: text or RTF formats.

Enchntd-Grd-msg - 8/5/96

 

Master Caridoc's period encampment at Pennsic.

 

NOTE: See also the files: BP-Thingie-msg, Pennsic-gifts-msg, P-storage-msg,

P-stories-msg, P-tale-MWIFO-art, Enchnted-Grd-msg, camp-kitchens-msg.

 

************************************************************************

NOTICE -

 

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

 

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

 

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

 

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

 

Please  respect the time  and efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If  information  is  published  from these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

 

Thank you,

    Mark S. Harris                 AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous

                                         Stefan at florilegium.org

************************************************************************

 

From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)

Date: 12 Jul 91 04:05:29 GMT

Organization: University of Chicago

 

      The Enchanted Ground: An Invitation

 

As many of you know, I regularly run an in-persona encampment at

Pennsic. The purpose of this note is to invite people to camp with us

and to visit.

 

Many people seem to assume that our requirements are much more

difficult than they actually are. We do not generally speak in Latin

or Arabic, we do not spend our time talking about what is happening

in January of 1103 A.D., we do not care whether you used a sewing

machine to make your garb.

 

What we do care about is whether we are talking and acting in a way

that makes it unnecessarily obvious that we are in the twentieth

century. In the case of the bardic circle, for instance, I do not

mind if the song someone sings was actually written in 1660, provided

there is nothing in it that makes that fact obvious (i.e. it does not

mention dates or prominent events). I object very much to an

introduction apologizing for the fact that the song was written in

1660, since the introduction, unlike the song, is obviously out of

period. Similarly, we normally light our fires with matches (unless

Aelfwyne happens to be around), but we do not talk about matches.

 

If you want to visit, the only requirement is that you are willing to

behave appropriately--to talk about things as your persona, not as

you talking about your persona. If you want to camp with us, there is

the additional requirement that your equipment not be obviously and

unnecessarily out of period. Obviously means ripstop nylon, poptents,

coleman stoves and lanterns and the like. An example of something

that is permitted because it is too hard for some people to do

without, although it is obviously out of period, is a modern pair of

glasses. We just don't notice them. Our restrictions do not apply

inside your tent, where nobody else can see you.

 

If you are interested in camping with us, or have questions, get in

touch by EMail, phone, or letter as soon as practical, since we will

be making our plans in the next few weeks.

 

Arastorm, in her recent posting, mentioned that the encampment is

often empty during the day. That was true a few years ago. As a way

of dealing with the problem (and for other reasons) we started the

Academy. It consists of in persona classes and conversations, and is

held after lunch in the encampment; in persona classes are classes

where teacher and students are speaking as their personas. Anyone is

welcome. If you want to teach a class or lead a discussion, get in

touch with Madeleine (Rhe6 at Midway.Chicago.Edu); she is in charge of

the Academy.

 

Come on in, the water's fine.

 

Cariadoc

David Friedman, 4919 S. Dorchester, Chicago, IL 60615

(312) 373-7881

DDFr at Midway.UChicago.Edu

 

 

From: rhe6 at quads.uchicago.edu (mindy miriam rheingold)

Date: 13 Jul 91 22:25:53 GMT

Organization: University of Chicago

 

Visit the scenic Enchanted Ground!  Attend the colorful and stimulating

Academy!  See the Majestic Duke! (My boyfriend was squired by a Duke once.

No, really...)

 

The Enchanted Ground really is great fun.  If you are uncertain what to expect o

or have heard dubious rumors about us, let me try to give you an idea of what

to expect and not to expect should you decide to honour us with your company.

 

We will welcome you, introduce ourselves, ask your name, and invite you to

join the Academy or the Bardic Circle if either is going on.  We will offer

you refreshment.  If I am there, I will set wafers and spiced wine before

you (Cariodoc will frown but I will not care) and be utterly charming to

you, even you are English. If there is not an Academy or Bardic Circle

going on, I will speak to you about various and sundry.  If you are a lady,

perhaps I will talk about Christine de Pisan's latest book, gossip about

how handsome Sir Whosits looks in his armor, or ask you where you got that

charming gown.  If you are a gentleman, perhaps I will flirt ever so

decorously with you and then Cariodoc will ask you if you want to marry me

(Pay him no mind.  He does this all the time, poor deluded soul.  Seems to

think it's part of his guardian duties or somesuch)  If Rebecca, Cariodoc

and Elizabeth's daughter, is about, then all attention will be focused on

her and we will all exclaim over how adorable she is and ask her what the

cat says so that she will say "Meow."

 

WHAT WE WILL NOT DO:

 

Contrary to contrary opinion we are not the Authenticity Police.  To be

Authenticity Police is both tedious and un-medieval and we are neither.

Medieval people did not go around lighting threads on other people's

clothing and talking about polyester and we are pretending to be medieval

people.  I, for one, don't care if you are wearing a Swatch or purple

leather underwear as long as you don't show them or tell me about them.

Nor will ask you what century you are from or whether that Italian

Renaissance gown is proper for a Scots bard.  Since we are pretending to

be medieval people we can not comprehend that there can be anyone from any

other time than our own wandering around.  This attitude neatly eliminates

any need for any mention of centuries, or, for that matter, of the Middle

Ages.  We are pretending to be medieval people and medieval people didn't

know that they were medieval (Can you imagine what ghastly epitaphs they're

going to put on US in 500 years?  I'd rather not even think about it.)

We will not give you persona history quizes.  We may ask you how the weather

in Venice is, but that's about the extent of it.  Most of us in the Enchanted

Ground don't know lots about our own persona's period, let alone anyone

else's, and even if we did, we wouldn't grill you on them.  We want to make

you feel welcome, notuncomfortable.  We also won't talk about specifically

SCA related things, like whether or not the Laurel Herald passed SoandSo's

badge or the outrageous things that were passed at the last BOD meeting, or

how Lord Whatsis has just completely ruined the baronial newsletter.

 

What we at the Enchanted Ground want to do most of all is to have fun

pretending to be medeival people.  If that sounds good to you, please

come and join us.

 

Madeleine

 

 

From: rhe6 at quads.uchicago.edu (mindy miriam rheingold)

Date: 13 Jul 91 23:02:31 GMT

Organization: University of Chicago

 

All right, Madeleine, you say, so you've told us what to expect should we

venture into the Enchanted Ground.  Now, what's the catch?  What do WE

have to do?  

 

Well you don't HAVE to do anything really, except die and pay taxes, and, if

you have your own religion, not even that.  But here are some guidelines

anyway.

 

What you DO NOT need to visit the Enchanted Ground:

 

1. A history degree

 

2. A full and detailed persona history

 

3. A Laurel

 

4. Meticulously researched and handsewn garb

 

5. Skill in fancy, high-blown language

 

6. 1001 poems, tales, or songs

 

(If you have any or all of the above, you are still welcome.  Just don't

make a big deal about the history degree)

 

What we DO ask of our gentle guests:

 

1.  Courtesy.  This just means be polite to folks.

 

2.  Appropriate behavior. this consists of:

 

        A) Pretending you are a medieval person living in the Middle Ages,

        who has no knowledge of or contact with the modern world.

 

        B) Not talking about non-medieval things and not talking about

        medieval things as if you were a modern person.

 

3.  Appropriate attire.  This consists of :

 

        A) A reasonable attempt at medieval clothes.  This does not mean

        fancy or hand-sewed, though we certainly make no objections to

        your looking decorative.

 

        B) Not wearing, not showing, and not mentioning non-medieval items.

        What this boils down to in practical terms is: please don't carry

        a Coke can in the encampment, keep your watch hidden, and don't

        apologize for or mention your glasses or your crutches.  We are

        certainly not asking you to forgo items that are necessary for your

        health and safety, but it is easier for us to ignore them if you

        don't mention them. I myself will probably be wearing a wrist

        splint (carpal tunnel, doncha know), but will cover it with a

        white cloth bandage and tell all inquirers that I sprained it

        while hunting.  If no one inquires, I won't mention it.

 

4.      A desire to have fun. This is indispensible.

 

Oh, and about the Academy. There is still room for a few more classes.

Please let me know if you'd like to teach. You can email me at:

rhe6 at midway.uchicago.edu or phone me at (312)363-8271 or smail me at:

Mindy Miriam Rheingold

5322 1/2 S. Drexel Avenue #3B

Chicago, IL 60615

 

Any sort of appropriate subject matter is welcome, and anything on Philosophy,

Poetry, or Theology would be most appreciated.

 

Ciao,

Madeleine

 

 

From: rhe6 at quads.uchicago.edu (mindy miriam rheingold)

Date: 13 Jul 91 23:30:02 GMT

Organization: University of Chicago

 

Okay, Madeleine, you say, so maybe I don't need a history degree and an

authentically made cote-hardie to visit the Enchanted Ground, but I know

next to nothing about my persona's history, or even the Middle Ages in

general!  And I'm not an actor or even very much at ease socially.  I'm

the sort of person who gibbers helplessly at cocktail parties!  I mean,

I'd really like to visit the Enchanted Ground, but I don't know what to

say and I don't want to look stupid or unmedieval.

 

You go to cocktail parties?!

 

Just relax.  You don't have to say much.  You don't even have to say anything.

There are plenty of us able and willing to natter on endlessly in pseudo-

medieval fashion, and you can just sit there smiling and we'll think you're

merely the strong, silent type or the shy, modest type.  Once you've been

around us and listened to us a bit, you'll get an idea of what to talk about.

 

But I just hate sitting there and not saying anything.

 

Alright, alright.  I will now give you Madeleine's Two Golden Rules of

Social Interaction (Medieval or otherwise)

 

1. Compliment

 

2. Ask questions.

 

We will, no doubt, be plying you with food and drink. You can talk about them.

Say how good the wafers taste.  Ask me what spices are in the wine.  

 

You have now consumed a modest, though substantial quantity of wafers and

wine and are feeling somewhat more at ease. you become less reticent.  You

tell Griffin how pretty her gown is.  You ask if the French ever drink

beer.  You wonder why Cariodoc tells every marginally eligible male that he

has a ward he is trying to marry off.  You ask about my dowry.  You smile

winningly at me and say that no doubt I am a very accomplished young lady.

I talk about my skill with philters and herbs and mention the Italian branch

of my family, smiling sweetly all the while.  I offer you more wine.  You

hastily decline and wax eloquent about remaining single.  You discuss armor

with Cariodoc and say how adorable Cariodoc's daughter is.  Cariodoc offers to

tell a tale.  You listen. You eat more wafers, say thank you and go back

to your camp for dinner.

 

See how easy?

 

Madeleine

 

 

From: salley at canisius.UUCP (Dagonell the Juggler)

Date: 17 Jul 91 22:07:00 GMT

Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo N.Y. 14208

 

RE: Enchanted Ground, More Unacceptable Excuses...

 

"But, I can't speak 'forsoothly' or do a proper English accent."

  -- So what, neither could Kevin Cosner, it didn't stop him. ;-)  Seriously,

     Dagonell should be ignoring everything Cariadoc says because they don't

     have a language in common, but we ignore details like that.  Speak normal

     English.  Words that are out of period but don't jar the ear (e.g. grog,

     elusive, etc.) will be accepted.  Just don't use the one's that are

     jarring (e.g. computer, rocket, etc.).

 

"But, my persona is ______, my people are at war with ________'s."

  -- Generally, it's the governments and armies who are at war.  The populace

     doesn't have the problem quite that badly.  There are numerous ways

     around it.  Cariadoc is a merchant, he's not about to let a Frank's lack

     of the proper faith stop him from taking the Frank's money.  Dagonell

     is a mercenary, he'll kill somebody when he's *paid* to kill somebody. ;-)

 

                                                      - Dagonell

 

SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr

Habitat     : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony

Disclaimer  : A society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.

Internet    : salley at klaatu.cs.canisius.edu

USnail-net  : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029

 

 

From: David Friedman <DDF2 at cornell.edu>

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Re: Authentic or Original?

Date: 26 Sep 1993 04:23:37 GMT

Organization: Cornell University

 

In article <282tb0$et at cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> CLIS library,

lecuyer at wam.umd.edu writes:

>A question on your minimun requirements for the Enchanted >Ground... If

I brought my favorite Bard with me one night >would she be allowed to

play her guitar? She, you and I

>all know this ain't period, but it does carry well in a  >crowded hall.

Although she has some histarical songs about >the every day existance in

the SCA ("All hail the BOD" comes >to mind) she has also written epic

length songs based  

>on stories from Celtic mythology.

 

1. Yes. My basic requirement is "nothing obviously and unnecessarily out

of period." A guitar is not, by my standards, obviously out of period.

There are period instruments that look similar enough so that someone

with no expertise in period instruments  would be unlikely to notice

which were or were not period.

 

2. I suspect from your final comment that your favorite bard may be

Morgan Wolfsinger. If so, she not only is welcome at my circle, she has a

small collection of my silver arm rings.

 

David/Cariadoc

DDF2 at Cornell.Edu  (I think this one works)

Also DDFr at aol.com

 

 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

From: DDFr at Midway.UChicago.edu (David Friedman)

Subject: Re: Pennsic... Info For 1st Timers (Driving)

Organization: University of Chicago Law School

Date: Wed, 24 May 1995 03:36:11 GMT

 

In article <greykD91sD1.JJw at netcom.com>, greyk at netcom.com (Grey Knowles)

wrote:

 

> I am sorry to have not made myself more clear, the question should have been:

>

> 6) Are there any specialty provisos I should be aware of for camping in

> the Enchanted Ground area, aside from the norm?

 

The Enchanted Ground is not an area, it is an encampment. If you want to

camp in it, you have to get in touch with whomever is organizing it (me in

past years, Liz Stokes this year: ilaine at panix.com) before the date at

which land claim papers have to go in, so you can be included in the list

of people we are claiming land for, just as for any other encampment. Since

I am not involved this year (moving outkingdom this summer, so will not be

at Pennsic) I do not know what date that is.

 

The requirements in past years, and I presume this year as well, are:

 

1. No equipment that is obviously and unnecessarily out of period. That

means no modern tents, coleman stoves, coleman lanterns. A period looking

tent made out of modern material that looks like period material is not

"obviously out of period," so is permitted. Ordinary eyeglasses are

obviously out of period but necessary for some people, so are also

permitted (and ignored).

 

2. No behaviour that is obviously and unnecessarily out of period when

inside our boundary. That means that you are in persona all the time you

are in the encampment (except, if you wish, inside your own tent where

nobody can see you). It does not mean that you have to be a scholar, or

have an elaborate persona story, or speak latin--merely that you remember

to talk about things as your persona, not as someone talking about the

middle ages from the outside.

 

People who are not camped with us are still welcome to come visit, subject

to the same rules--don't bring a Coleman lantern, and don't discuss things

from an out of period point of view.

--

David/Cariadoc

DDFr at Midway.UChicago.Edu

 

 

From: ddfr at best.com (David Friedman)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Enchanted Ground at This Pennsic

Date: 29 May 1996 02:09:55 GMT

Organization: Best Internet Communications

 

There will be an Enchanted Ground at this Pennsic. Anyone interested in

being part of the encampment should get in touch with Liz Stokes

<ilaine at panix.com>, since she is handling land claim for us.

 

For those who are not familiar with it, the Enchanted Ground is an

encampment within which everyone is in persona all of the time, so that we

are interacting as medieval people, not as modern people with a medieval

hobby. To make that easier, we try to avoid obviously out of period

objects as well as out of period behavior.

 

The basic rule is that there should be nothing visible or audible within

the encampment that is both obviously and unnecessarily out of period. A

tent of synthetic fabric that looks like cotton canvas is acceptable

because it is not obviously out of period. Eyeglasses are acceptable (and

ignored) because, for many people, doing without them makes things very

difficult. Modern looking tents, Coleman stoves (where other people can

see them), etc. are not allowed within the encampment. If we find that we

have to talk about something our personae could not talk about, such as

modern sources of information, we simply move the conversation outside of

the boundary of the encampment.

 

Camping with us does not require that your equipment be elaborate, that

you have a persona story worked out in great detail, or that you have vast

historical knowledge--merely that you are willing to adopt your persona's

viewpoint while within the encampment, and, so far as possible, do without

any equipment that would make it hard for the rest of us to imagine that

we are in the Middle Ages.

 

Anyone with questions about how the encampment works should EMail me

and/or read the articles about it on the web from the Miscellany. They

are:

 

"A Dying Dream"

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/dying_dream.html

 

"The Enchanted Ground: A Progress Report"  

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/enchanted_ground.html

 

Some other relevant articles are:

 

"Concerning a Dream"

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/concerning_a_dream.html

 

"Staying in Persona and Other Things: An Opinion

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/staying_in_persona.html

 

"Concerning Consistency or Ignorance is Bliss"

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/consistency.html

 

And the index to the Miscellany is at

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc/miscellany.html

 

David/Cariadoc

--

ddfr at best.com

 

 

From: HAROLD.FELD at hq.doe.GOV (HAROLD.FELD)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Subject: Enchantment

Date: 30 Jul 1996 11:37:17 -0400

Organization: The Internet

 

     Greetings from Yaakov:

    

     David Talan wrote:

     > It's been a while since I was at Pennsic and my memory may be faulty

     > but if I recall correctly, it may be quite permissible for photos to

     > be shown in the enchanted ground. If I were to meet someone in the

     > encampment and we retired to the privacy of his or her pavilion, I

     > don't think anyone would be bothered by the activity. As I know that

     > the Enchanted Ground organizers read this newsgroup, I am sure that

     > I will be corrected if I am in error.

    

     Last year I was running the Academy at Enchanted Ground (his Grace

     being absent) and someone unfamiliar with our standards began to pass

     around photos of the subjects of her talk (gargoyles in Ireland) as

     "illustrations."  I asked her to join me outside the ropes and

     explained that we didn't do that.  Even if we call it an illustration,

     it *is* a photograph and everyone recognizes it as such- therefore

     spoiling the effect. The person responded that she had no other means

     to show people what she meant. I pointed out she could still describe

     them.  She agreed, we returned, and had a good class.  She commented

     afterwards that sticking to the rules presented some interesting

     challenges and that she had learned something as well as teaching.

    

     Yaakov

 

<the end>



Formatting copyright © Mark S. Harris (THLord Stefan li Rous).
All other copyrights are property of the original article and message authors.

Comments to the Editor: stefan at florilegium.org