Title: Pennsic-water-msg
Subject: Dealing with the Pennsic drinking water. Filters. Alternatives.
Author: Edited by Mark S. Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: Pennsic, water, drink, bottled, rust, taste, camp, filter, purify

Pennsic-water-msg - 2/25/12

Dealing with the Pennsic drinking water. Filters. Alternatives.

NOTE: See also the files: P-history-msg, Eatng-Pennsic-art, Pennsic-ideas-msg, P-stories-msg, BPThingie-art, camp-showers-msg, camp-kitchens-msg.

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This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

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Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: "deborah minyard" <dminmin at hotmail.com>
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mattress sacks for Pennsic
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 04:25:22 +0000

>By the way, bringing it back vaguely toward food stuff: does anyone have
>any experience at using filters (Brita or one of its clones) for the
>Pennsic tap water? Do they work well? Do they work at all?
>
>Alban

The household I camp with uses 4 household filters in line. They're changed
once a day. We still don't drink it or cook with it.  It's still Orange.

Debbie Minyard

From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:44:08 EDT
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mattress sacks for Pennsic
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Alban at socket.net writes:
> By the way, bringing it back vaguely toward food stuff: does anyone have
> any experience at using filters (Brita or one of its clones) for the Pennsic
> tap water? Do they work well? Do they work at all?

A new Brita filter will usually make it through Pennsic, but the two weeks
will totally kill it....We used a Brita pitcher in camp one year.  For a few
people they work fine; for more than about 5 you cannot keep enough water
filtered in a timely manner to be practical.  The pitchers are just too
small.

Brangwayna Morgan

From: Bronwynmgn at aol.com
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:44:10 EDT
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Mattress sacks for Pennsic
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

dminmin at hotmail.com writes:
> The household I cmp with uses 4 household filters in line They're changed
> once a day we still don't drink it or cook with it.  It's still Orange.

Obviously YMMV.  I've been cooking with Pennsic water for 12 years without a
problem.  It's only orange if you let it sit so the iron in it oxidizes.
Get it fresh out of the tap and use it!  For that matter, even though my camp
puts bottled water in the jugs, I have no problem drinking camp water when
out on the battle field or elsewhere.  It has never bothered me, and for the
first five years I never even used bottled water.

I know some people get the runs or the opposite effect from it, because of
the mineral content.  All I'm saying is that it doesn't bother me, and I get
sick of people saying that the water is "unusable".  It's not unusable; if
you choose not to use it, it's an esthetic thing, not a "because we can't"
thing.

On the other hand, people choosing not to use it cuts down on the strain on
the wells, which is a good thing, and tends to keep it better for those of
us who do use it.  So go ahead and buy water.

Brangwayna Morgan

Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2006 13:41:25 -0400
From: "Saint Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pennsic on a shoestring
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On 6/3/06, Sharon Gordon <gordonse at one.net> wrote:
>  I was talking with a couple of people going to Pennsic this year who are
> on a really tight budget.  They asked me if they cooked all their food in
> camp and brought food and firewood from home, if they could eat for $10 each
> per week.  I told them I doubted it, but I thought they could do it for $15
> each if they could get access to water filtered at Pennsic and didn't have
> to buy bottled water.  That's assuming they got all their food on sale and
> only used their cooler for the first day or two with ice brought  
> from home.

They can get access to filtered water, but it will require a bit of hiking,
if they're planning on camping as single. The spigot by Chirurgeon's Point
is filtered, deliberately, so people get the water they need, but the center
of Pennsic is quite a ways away from where most single campers camp, at
least any that get there after the first couple of days.
-- 
Saint Phlip

Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 17:37:19 -0400
From: Maymunah al Siqilliyah <alsiqilliyah at gmail.com>
To: atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [MR] care with accusations Re:  Pennsic Water Challenge

The "funk" in the water is just iron salts.  I live with a well and I 
know for sure that you can have water that is perfectly safe that is 
also unpleasant. A water filter can get out a lot of it.   I think that 
lawsuits over people's health are also expensive and I don't think the 
Coopers are stupid.

On 7/16/2011 4:47 PM, Becky McEllistrem wrote:
I know I have had Pennsic water before and while not what I've wanted, when you're hot in the middle of the field I know it never made me truly sick.

Are we sure that Pennsic water is what made people unhealthy and have documented it?  I ask because I worry that if we relate stories like that and they're not well documented with medical testing we could become the group that brings SCA into a slander suit with Coopers Lake Campground.  From what I understand slander suits are kind of expensive.

Rebecca

--- On Fri, 7/15/11, Logan<Logan at ebonwoulfe.com>  wrote:
From: Logan<Logan at ebonwoulfe.com>
"safe and drinkable"?  I would hardly suggest that.  The purity level of
pennsic well water is horribly turbid and anyone who consumes it runs the
risk of peeing from their butt for some time.  In our camp we have to change
each of our filters several times a week and upon returning from pennsic you
can literally scrape the funk off your skin and nails.  bad news......

Also, transporting water to pennsic isn't necessary. 
There are some tiny small towns nearby that have places to buy the water
there.  ;^)

logan

From: Anne <orionsdaughter at gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MR] care with accusations Re: Pennsic Water Challenge
To: Becky McEllistrem <bmcellis at yahoo.com>

So........ if you have a question about the quality of pennsic water.. carry
a gallon of bleach with you and an eyedropper... a few drops per gallon and
the water is potable.  It might taste a bit funky but it is drinkable.. and
no not due to bleach if you don't overdo it.  If you do let it sit over
night and the taste will disappear, bleach taste that is.

I sail boats. I sail in some truly funky places. I drink the local water
that goes into the boat tanks. Before we fill I put in bleach.  Cheap and
solves pretty much any problem.  I have other methods of water purification
but this one is the cheapest.  One can also buy water purification tablets
online.

I drank the water at Coopers for yrs. I am still alive to tell the tale.  I
seem to remember it had a bit of a mineral taste. shrug... cannot be any
worse than the "iron water" I grew up drinking in SC.

lady aine

Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 19:52:32 -0400
From: "Logan" <Logan at ebonwoulfe.com>
To: "'Merry Rose'" <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: Re: [MR] Fwd:  care with accusations Re: Pennsic Water
	Challenge

Some folks can drink well water without issue.  Heck i've been to Haiti,
where the water is infested with giardia, and they drink it all the time
without issue.  My caution has to do with folks that are not used to well
water, bad city water, or any other water with a turbidity level as high as
the water at coopers lake which stains everything.  Can you bleach it to
make it safe?  Sure.  Is it unsafe (as in bacteria that would cause health
issues in healthy adults?) Probably not.  

I tested it a few years ago and its contaminant level was above 400ppm (my meter only went to 400ppm).  For a reference charlotte city water (which is nasty) was at 34ppm and Aquafina (and Lebleu) both came in at 1ppm.  Harris Teeter (grocery chain) has a admirable mention with their "purified water" in gallon jugs at 2ppm and only .89 per gallon.  

Its probably cheaper for most folks to just buy purified water in town for the week than to buy bleach.  Of course if you're used to well water none of this matters but if you live in a city and drink municipal water you should stay clear of the water at Pennsic.  Or not.......

logan

Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 05:39:09 +0000
From: Gina Shelley <paintedwheel at hotmail.com>
To: <atlantia at atlantia.sca.org>
Subject: [MR] Pennsic water and pennsic sanitation

I don't drink Pennsic water, not because I don't think it's potable (I don't know if it is or not. I know people drink it without ill effects), but for two other reasons. 

1. I'm not used to that water and it obviously has a very heavy mineral content (Iron, evidently, for the most part.) Even potable water full of minerals you're not used to can upset your tummy. Especially in a situation where you're going to need to drink a lot of it. Why risk that in a place like Pennsic?

2. If water tastes bad or odd (or, say, like a rusty nail for instance), you are going to tend to drink less of it. You're at Pennsic, you need to drink more water, not less (you're welcome, Morwenna.). 

You can buy it in five gallon tanks at the Giant Eagle up there. You can buy it at Coopers. It's cheap. I know for a fact you can get the big tanks of it in the Bridgeport West Virginia Walmart, because that's where we do our Pennsic grocery shopping every year. 

I think people tend to get Pennsic Plague because in a situation like that, you really have to mind your camp kitchen. You have to keep your food on sufficient ice. You have to wash your hands A LOT. You have to keep your kitchen supplies scrupulously clean (and I mean clean like "Gypsy" clean, too. Pretend you're Mr. Monk.). We bring up tons of hand sanitizer (not a substitute for washing), Clorox wipes, dishwashing supplies. I bring a spray bottle of vinegar and one of hydrogen peroxide. Spraying them both on surfaces, letting it sit, then rinsing off with clean water provides a food grade sanitize for your feastware, your cookware, and even your fresh produce. It produces peracetic acid when mixed (do NOT mix these chemicals into one bottle). I do this at home. I don't even put produce in my refrigerator before treating it in this way. I treat raw meat and unwashed produce like it's toxic waste. (that produce Delia brought up to Morwenna's vigil last summer probably didn't have enough bacteria left on it for the leftovers to rot when we got finished with it down in camp. )

Do not allow flies to land on your food or gear. (it's not that you don't know where they've been. You do. They've been in the privy. Where the guy in the next camp who does not practice these things I'm telling you is spending A LOT of time. ) Big box of large zip lock bags helps with that. Food goes in, clean gear goes in. 

Watch where you put your shoes. They've been in the privy, too, slogging around in all that nice fresh norovirus. I tend to keep my shoes under the vardo. They are marhime...contaminated with something that can make me sick. I might put them inside the vardo if the weather is really bad, but I have a special place for them on the little porch, outside the door jamb, where they won't touch anything else. For God's sake don't put them on your bed or (shudder) your PICNIC TABLE. (just...no.)

It helps if your camp has hot water. If you don't, heating water to wash dishes is something you should take the time to do. We're lucky down in The Court and have a Zodi water heater, which I highly recommend. Hot water makes it easier to keep yourself and your gear clean, so you're more likely to do it right. 

You might laugh at my obsessiveness, but I have yet to puke at War. I'm just saying. 

Dulcy
Who finds a great deal of irony in the knowledge that people think "gypsies" are dirty. 

Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 10:08:42 CDT
From: "Bambi TBNL" <hippy_dippy_dancer at yahoo.com>
To: morgul at sc.rr.com, atlantia at seahorse.atlantia.sca.org
Subject: Re: [MR] Fwd:  care with accusations Re: Pennsic Water
	Challenge

Folks, even though the well water is as pure as the local tap water and bottled water, how many of our encampments run garden hoses to their encampments to have running water in camp? How many of those hoses are brand new every year or have been stored for an entire year reserved for that purpose but no one flushed and sanitized them before drinking water straight from them. Human error lurks everywhere even though the actual water was fine at the point it was tested. My dad was a pretty well known micro biologist. In my youth I also knew him as a fun spoiler and a suspected sufferer of OCD. I was invited to a lake swim party at my Godmother's  when I was 23 and he showed up the day before to test the lake water for parasites........pretty funny now but .....any way, my point is, he was right to assume possible contamination and options for illness everywhere but wrong to believe putting the world in a sterile bubble would fix it.. As far as following govt regs...the coopers water does that. Pennsic wouldn't happen otherwise. 

As far as the options for that to get screwed up in between source and consumer? 10,000 give or take a few thou. Bottled drinking water, sanitizing your drinking vessels and other dishes, covering your food, boiling or cooking at high heat, washing and sanitizing anything eaten fresh, and knowing your personal limitations as in alergies, sensitivities and triggers, is a way to protect yourself and be able to enjoy more. If you see a place selling food that seem to not be in compliance with the health dept. regs, don't eat there or ask about their ratings. 

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris	Pennsic-water-msg	 of