p-stories-msg - 10/25/08 Period stories. Story sources. NOTE: See also the files: story-sources-msg, storytelling-art, poetry-msg, Hornbook-art, fairy-tales-msg, bardic-msg, Bardic-Guide-art. ************************************************************************ NOTICE - This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday. This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter. The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors. Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s). Thank you, Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous Stefan at florilegium.org ************************************************************************ Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: Alexx at world.std.com (Alexx S Kay) Subject: Dangerous (almost-)Period Toilet Paper :-) Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 17:24:25 GMT I recall that during the recent discussion on "period toilet paper", someone mentioned the theoretical usefulness of a goose for that purpose. I have a counter-example :-) This is from The Pentameron (aka The Diversion of the Little Ones) by Giovanni Batiste Basile, translated by Sir Richard Burton. The book is from 1637, just out of period, and is similar in structure to Boccacio's Decameron, having a frame story about a group of storytellers, and ten tales told in each "day". The relevant excerpt is from the first tale of the fifth day, "The Goose". The beginning of the story involves a goose who "dropped" golden crowns, which was stolen from its owners by some gossips. The gossips are unable to get the goose to produce anything but "a sewer of dirt" and, frustrated, twisted its neck and threw it out onto the street. "But as fate and fortune had decreed, that where thou least thinkest the bean will grow, passed that way the son of a king, hunting and birding, and on the road he was taken by a colic, and bidding his groom hold the reins of his steed and his sword, he entered that narrow street, and completing his service, he beheld the dead goose, whereupon he used it for a very obvious purpose. "Now the goose was not dead; so, turning her head, she caught hold with her bill of the fleshy part of the prince and would not let go, and he cried with loud cries, and his suite ran to his assistance, and tried to pull off the bird from him, but it was of no avail; she held firmly at her booty like a feathery weight or an hairy hermaph- rodite. And the prince, unable to resist the suffering, and beholding the fruitless efforts made by his suite, bade them lift him up, and carry him in their arms to the royal palace, where he sent for all the doctors and sages of his realm to deliver him. They tried all kinds of ointment, and made use of pinchers, and used and sprinkled powders, but to no purpose. And perceiving that the goose was like a tick, and would not let go for quicksilver, a leech that would not drop for all the vinegar used, the prince ordered a ban to be proclaimed, that whoso would deliver him from this annoyance at his bottom, if it should be a man, he would gift him with half of his realm, if a woman, he would take her to wife. And folk, having put their noses to the reward, swarmed to the palace-gate; but the more remedies they tried, the more the goose tightened her hold, and pinched the wretched prince's back parts, and it seemed as if all the prescriptions of Galen had been gathered together, and all the aphorisms of Hippocrates, and the remedies of Mesoe against the posterior of Aristotiles, to torment that unhappy prince. But by the decree of the Decreer, amid so many who came and went to try this trial, came also Lolla, the youngest of the two sisters [The goose's original owners], and when she beheld the goose she knew her, and cried, 'O Niofatella mine, Niofatella;' and the goose, hearing the voice of her beloved mistress, at once left her prey, and ran to meet her, caressing her and kissing her, well-pleased to change the back parts of a prince for the caress of a country-maid." The story goes on a little longer to a happy ending and a moral, but as far as *I* am concerned, the moral is "Be careful what you wipe your bum with" :-) Alexx Alexx at world.std.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: mittle at watson.ibm.com (Arval d'Espas Nord) Subject: Re: period stories Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1993 18:34:00 GMT Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Greetings from Arval! Dunstana wrote: > ...it inspired me to learn some period stories so that I might have > something to share next time. Could anybody recommend some sources? As it happens, I was discussing just this difficulty with Cariadoc and his lady on Sunday evening. There are lots of sources, but collecting a bibliography is hard because they are so scattered. You could get a good start with Canterbury Tales and The Decameron, both readily available. Other good sources are the romances of Chretien de Troyes (or indeed _any_ romances), The Heptameron, the Fabliaux of Marie de France, any collection of stories of Reynard the Fox, Gawain and the Green Knight, the Song of Roland, any medieval Lives of Saints, Gerald of Wales' Journey Through Wales and his Journey Through Ireland, any medieval version of the Arthur stories, the Mabinogion, the Icelandic Sagas and Eddas. Many of these are available in fine translations from Penguin Classics. =========================================================================== Arval d'Espas Nord mittle at watson.ibm.com Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: troll at sug.org (A. Newman) Subject: Re: period stories Organization: Carolingian Guild of Storytellers Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 16:50:11 GMT Fondest greetings to you all; The gracious Dunstana de Fontaine writes: > As my lord mentioned in an earlier post, we had the pleasure of visiting >Duke Sir Cariadoc's bardic circle in the Enchanted Ground, and 'twas truly a >wondrous experience. As a frequent visitor to his grace's circle (tho' not as frequent this year as I would have liked...grumble Commedia grumble...), I could not agree more, my lady. >In fact, it inspired me to learn some period stories so that I might >have something to share next time. Could anybody recommend some >sources? Certainly. Are you looking for period stories, or period-and-persona stories? I don't know what time and country you hail from, so please contact me if you want to narrow the focus a little. Good sources for material include: _The Decameron_ by Bocaccio, and it's various spin-offs and imitations. Be careful not to get an 'abridged' edition. Some of these stories are pretty spicey and so get edited out. _The Cantebury Tales_ by Chaucer _Orlando Furioso_ by Ariosto, which includes several 'stories within stories', so you don't have to do the entire epic. _The Odyssey_ by Homer. _The Iliad_ is interesting, too, but lacks some of the fantastic elements of The Odyssey. _Beowulf_. There are several good translations. I like the Burton Rafael one, myself. _The Arabian Nights_. The range of the stories is phenomenal. From a $3.95 pocket sized edition to the 13-volume Burton translation. Something for everyone. The are dozens of collections of Norse myths, as well as things like _Njal's Saga_, if you're interested in that part of the world, as well. I hope this helps and I look forward to hearing you next year... I remain, your obedient servant...and angel, Aleksandr Yevsha, House Sinister Guildmaster, Worshipful Company of Carolingian Storytellers troll at bridge.sug.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Join the Storytellers Mailing list! storytellers-request at world.std.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: afk at ElSegundoCA.NCR.COM (Art Kaufmann) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: period stories Date: 31 Aug 93 23:59:59 GMT Organization: NCR/Teradata Greetings from Colin Graham: In article 21422 at bsu-ucs, 00kacohn at leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu () writes: > Greetings unto the Rialto from Dunstana de Fontaine! > > As my lord mentioned in an earlier post, we had the pleasure of visiting > Duke Sir Cariadoc's bardic circle in the Enchanted Ground, and 'twas truly a > wondrous experience. In fact, it inspired me to learn some period stories so > that I might have something to share next time. Could anybody recommend some > sources? I've heard a number of stories, but I can't tell which are period > and which are not, unless they make reference to people, things, or events > which are obviously Not Our Time, Dear :-) Any suggestions would be much > appriciated. > > Dunstana de Fontaine > whose lord is now having starry-eyed visions of a period Saxon encampment :-) If you find some of those "nice translations" of period sources a little dry (accurate they may be, but a great chemical-free substitute for Sominex), try "The Craneskin Bag" by Robin Williamson (it now has a new title, but I can't recall it just now). It contains a number of stories (taken from the Mabinogion and other primary sources) retold by (as the advertising literature puts it) "the one true modern bard." Robin also has some tapes out with stories on them. These can help you with something that the books cannot: style. It is probably more important how you tell a story than what the story truly says. If you are interested in storytelling beyond the SCA, there are many organizations dedicated to the activity. I'm just getting interested in this, so I don't have many references, but one that I can cite is "Sing Out" (Yes, the "folk song" magazine). They have a column called "The Endless Tale," which is on storytelling and can point you at societies, events and references. If your local folk music store doesn't carry SO, they may be reached at (215)865-7554 (membership). Colin Graham Caid afk at ElSegundoCa.NCR.COM From: salley at niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: period stories Date: 4 Sep 93 07:37:28 GMT Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208 Aleksandr Yevsha writes: > The gracious Dunstana de Fontaine writes: > >In fact, it inspired me to learn some period stories so that I might > >have something to share next time. Could anybody recommend some > >sources? > Good sources for material include: [numerous deletions] > _The Arabian Nights_. The range of the stories is phenomenal. From a > $3.95 pocket sized edition to the 13-volume Burton translation. ^^^^^^^^^ It's 17 volumes. I know, I own it. And Cariadoc's eyes lit up when I showed it to him! ;-) - Dagonell SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr Habitat : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony Internet : salley at niktow.cs.canisius.edu USnail-net : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029 From: sbloch at ms.uky.edu (Stephen Bloch) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Melodia TI article - long (was BUGBEARS) Date: 7 May 1994 18:35:44 -0400 Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences Susan Clark wrote: > I was glad to see Sarra include a drinking song in her >article, because it points out a cogent fact: > > Medieval Music c =/= serious music > > Some of the rudest, most double-entendre filled songs I know >date from the High Middle Ages.... Hear, hear! I've spent much of the past few days putting together a radio program on the 13th-century Cantigas de Santa Maria, and have been very amused by the sorts of stories in them. For those not familiar with CSM, it's a collection of 400 songs in honor of the Blessed Virgin Mary. But not 400 boring hymns -- about 90% of them are miracle stories, basically "Superman" comics with the BVM substituted in the leading role. (Not that the other 10% are "boring" either, but they're closer to what we would call "hymns".) Some examples: A poor woman made a woven and embroidered cloth and placed in on the altar as an offering. The priest took it and used it to make a pair of pants for himself. But the BVM caused his legs to bend up so that his heels were pressed painfully against his buttocks, and he could not move from this position until he implored the BVM for forgiveness and promised to return the cloth to the altar. A priest took the silver-covered wooden cross from the church, stripped off the silver, and gave it to "one of his women". The next day during the service he pointed to the cross, saying a great crime had been committed, and asking God to punish the thief by blinding him, and further asking for a visible sign that all might know the thief. The BVM granted these requests, blinding him and causing his nose to grow so long it hung down over his mouth and so broad it reached his ears, so that he could neither eat nor drink without lifting his nose out of the way with one hand. A pious abbess "was betrayed by Satan" and became pregnant. The nuns started making fun of her, especially since she had often scolded them about hanging around with men, and reported her to the bishop. He called her to account for her behaviour (we may assume her job was in jeopardy), she returned to her chamber and prayed to the BVM, who "delivered her of the child and sent it to live in Saxony." (These three are paraphrased from the Waverley Consort's translation; I haven't checked the originals yet. I'm using the Waverley's recorded translations to convey what the texts are like, then using mostly Ensemble Alcatraz, Sequentia, and Esther Lamandier for the music.) Stephen Bloch sbloch at s.ms.uky.edu Newsgroups: rec.org.sca From: Alexx at world.std.com (Alexx S Kay) Subject: Dangerous (almost-)Period Toilet Paper :-) Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 17:24:25 GMT I recall that during the recent discussion on "period toilet paper", someone mentioned the theoretical usefulness of a goose for that purpose. I have a counter-example :-) This is from The Pentameron (aka The Diversion of the Little Ones) by Giovanni Batiste Basile, translated by Sir Richard Burton. The book is from 1637, just out of period, and is similar in structure to Boccacio's Decameron, having a frame story about a group of storytellers, and ten tales told in each "day". The relevant excerpt is from the first tale of the fifth day, "The Goose". The beginning of the story involves a goose who "dropped" golden crowns, which was stolen from its owners by some gossips. The gossips are unable to get the goose to produce anything but "a sewer of dirt" and, frustrated, twisted its neck and threw it out onto the street. "But as fate and fortune had decreed, that where thou least thinkest the bean will grow, passed that way the son of a king, hunting and birding, and on the road he was taken by a colic, and bidding his groom hold the reins of his steed and his sword, he entered that narrow street, and completing his service, he beheld the dead goose, whereupon he used it for a very obvious purpose. "Now the goose was not dead; so, turning her head, she caught hold with her bill of the fleshy part of the prince and would not let go, and he cried with loud cries, and his suite ran to his assistance, and tried to pull off the bird from him, but it was of no avail; she held firmly at her booty like a feathery weight or an hairy hermaph- rodite. And the prince, unable to resist the suffering, and beholding the fruitless efforts made by his suite, bade them lift him up, and carry him in their arms to the royal palace, where he sent for all the doctors and sages of his realm to deliver him. They tried all kinds of ointment, and made use of pinchers, and used and sprinkled powders, but to no purpose. And perceiving that the goose was like a tick, and would not let go for quicksilver, a leech that would not drop for all the vinegar used, the prince ordered a ban to be proclaimed, that whoso would deliver him from this annoyance at his bottom, if it should be a man, he would gift him with half of his realm, if a woman, he would take her to wife. And folk, having put their noses to the reward, swarmed to the palace-gate; but the more remedies they tried, the more the goose tightened her hold, and pinched the wretched prince's back parts, and it seemed as if all the prescriptions of Galen had been gathered together, and all the aphorisms of Hippocrates, and the remedies of Mesoe against the posterior of Aristotiles, to torment that unhappy prince. But by the decree of the Decreer, amid so many who came and went to try this trial, came also Lolla, the youngest of the two sisters [The goose's original owners], and when she beheld the goose she knew her, and cried, 'O Niofatella mine, Niofatella;' and the goose, hearing the voice of her beloved mistress, at once left her prey, and ran to meet her, caressing her and kissing her, well-pleased to change the back parts of a prince for the caress of a country-maid." The story goes on a little longer to a happy ending and a moral, but as far as *I* am concerned, the moral is "Be careful what you wipe your bum with" :-) Alexx Alexx at world.std.com Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 19:22:33 -0800 From: david friedman Subject: Re: SC - Royal declared chocolate period (was: serrated kni >So, are you going to tell us, or do I have to call you a story tease? It is a very famous story. Canute was a very great king, ruler of Denmark, Norway and England, and no man has done that since. So it is no surprise that there were flatterers at his court, one of whom, in listing the powers of the king, said that he had rule over earth and sea, and the very tide must obey him. Canute asked him if indeed that was so--that the tide would do his bidding--and the courtiers answered that it would. So the king commanded his retinue, the flatterer among them, to the seashore at low tide, and there held court. When the tide began to turn, he stood up, held out his hand, commanded the tide to stay out, and then continued the business of court--while the water gradually rose about the courtiers' feet. When it got sufficiently deep to make his point for him, he permitted them back to shore. Not even so great a king can command the tide. Still less can any king make falsehood truth or truth falsehood. David Friedman Professor of Law Santa Clara University Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 23:19:48 -0500 To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org From: Ted Eisenstein Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pennsic fantasies > I have always wanted to rent a big old school bus and > a big old truck with plenty of space for everyone's Some old, old, old-timers from Calontir still talk of the Vatavian War Bus. Some people from Vatavia had a big school bus that they used frequently for long road trips. One year they took it to Pennsic: it was loaded inside with people and a lot of baggage - and, on both outside sides were taped the really long pole-arms, some extending past the radiator; on the roof, ditto; and over the radiator were a couple of the Mark I scutums/warshields (only place they'd go, really. . . ) As it turned into St. Aidan's Square, which was at that point where troll was, the Pennsic Marshall just happened to be walking by. He came over; smacked each shield a couple of times, examined the foam over each of the spears and polearms, and rattled them to be sure they were on securely - and proceded to put an official "Passed Inspection" sticker on the windshield. . . Alban Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 16:34:13 -0500 From: "Daniel Phelps" Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] "Banned Foods" sortof still is: "Kingdom" NationalDishes To: "Cooks within the SCA" Was written: > Or, he gets them for *every course.* Loudly. And with great ceremony. > --maire, remembering one such distinct instance for a now non-Duke (he > was prince here in Artemisia) Several years ago I tried my hand at writing a frame tale. A pair of stories within it seem to me to be a bit close to the mark regarding this thread and may amuse. Consider the following a Yule gift. A word of explaination I've clipped it from the larger work so the start may puzzle a bit. The preamble to this frame tale set was inspired by the introduction of the Wife of Bath's tale in the "Canterbury Tales" of Chaucer as well as various introductory and epistle passages in the "Heptameron". In creating this frame tale set I have extracted plot elements from two separate tales and put them together. The plot for "The Tale of the Surfeit Squire" comes from a tale entitled "Eel Pies" on pages 39 through 42 in "Les Cent Nouvelles Nouvelles" (The Hundred Tales), a 14th French source. The plot for the enclosing "Tale of the Virtuous Wife" comes from the "Decameron's" fifth tale on the first day. ***** All present laughed at the jest and fell to discussing the nature of marriage, love and infidelity. The Moors present opinioned that it is the nature of women to be wanton and unfaithful. While some among the Christians argued that virtue resided with the female and that men are more likely to stray, the majority agreed with the Saracens. It was then that a noble lady stepped from the shadows to speak most eloquently in the defense of womankind. She was of middling age and sturdy, the lady wife of one of the senior knights new come to the land. This formidable lady, by word and gesture, chided the forgathered lords and gave every indication she knew of what she spoke. Thus enthused she railed them with the following discourse. "I think that priests for all their talk know little of marriage and less of love. I have been thrice married and twice widowed, once by maladventure and once by war. I know by bitter experience that men, save my good husband here, when not watched are like kine, wont to wander and graze upon any sweet clover they snuffle. My first husband had a wandering eye and other parts as well. It proved the death of him falling as he did down a garderobe while being pursued by an outraged husband. It is said that my second husband took the cross to atone for his transgressions of the flesh. In truth he did so not out of piety but to avoid more earthly retributions. Well, be that as it may, his soul is in heaven now for he was by a Paynim arrow slain. As you persist in relating slanders regarding the nature of women I, by way of example of masculine perfidy, shall relate to you the following tale and cautionary lesson." With such a preamble as that she began the following "Tale of the Virtuous Wife". A lady well known to me, who stayed home when her husband went on crusade, caught the eye of a neighboring count. This noble sent a squire to press his suit. The lady was astounded at the temerity of the count. Said she to the squire, "Why has your lord turned his eyes to me? While he may not respect his marriage vows I assure you that I honor mine." "As for that," said the squire, "it is a little awkward to relate but perhaps I should tell it as my master explained it to me when I asked the same of him." The squire then related this "The Tale of the Surfeit Squire". My lord came to me one day and asked me to carry his words and convey his affections to you. I spoke to him saying, "I oft have done like service for you in your bachelor days, but you are now wed to an honorable lady of both grace and beauty who loves you well. She will return from Rome in but a short while. I beg of you, turn your thoughts back to your lady and do not ask this of me." "As you do not wish to do this task for me, I will not command you," said my master with a sour look. Later in the eventide he spoke to me as we supped together. " Oh virtuous squire, what is your favorite flesh above all else," he asked. "It is eel I love the best," I replied. "Yes it is indeed most excellent," he responded after a moment's reflection. The next morning the cook prepared a marvelous dish of braised eel for me to break my fast. I ate it with pleasure and proceeded on with my day. At noon a cunningly prepared dish of stewed eel appeared before me and while puzzled I ate it as well. When an eel pie was presented to me for supper I went to see the cook. "Why have you served me eel three meals running," asked I. "It is by our lord's command that you shall have your fondest flesh. I can serve you no other," said he. I went to my master and as I approached he asked of me with a smile, "how do you like your eel?" "I like it well enough in moderation," said I, "but a steady diet of it makes me long for some variety." "Indeed it is the same with me and my appetites," he said. "Perhaps you now see my point." Thus the squire ended his tale. "What will you have me tell my master," asked the squire at length. The lady said unto him, "If it so pleases your master, I shall have him to dinner two days hence." In two days the count arrived for dinner and the lady presented him for his repast a sumptuous but curious banquet. While all the dishes were exquisitely prepared and cunningly differenced with savory sauces, and gilded crusts; all the dishes; wither minced, broiled, sautéed, roasted or stewed; consisted of chicken. The count at feast noticed this curiosity and remarked upon it. The lady smiled and said unto him, "As for that, it is the same with women. No matter how we are dressed or adorned, under it all, we are all but the same flesh." It was by this response that the count realized that his desires would not be achieved. Thus disappointed but wiser he returned back to his home and lady wife that very night. All who heard her tale, save perhaps her husband, laughed and said that indeed that the wayward count had been well and truly served. Daniel From: Date: March 18, 2008 1:29:23 PM CDT To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Random Welsh book recommendation ---- Zach Most wrote: > I got a random book recommendation from Amazon today, and it looks > like it might interest a number of Welsh/Celtic folks here: > http://www.amazon.com/dp/0520253965/ref=pe_606_8640840_pe_ar_t1 > Sorry to be a corporate shill. Really, feel free to check it out > at a library. > Gaston There is a nice review of the book here: http:// repositories.cdlib.org/cmrs/comitatus/vol8/iss1/art5/ At http://libraryoftexas.org you can find additional reviews and identify nearby libraries that own the work including Austin Public, Baylor, UT Austin and Trinity University. You can get it by submitting an ILL request at your local library or online at libraryoftexas.org (log in using your TexShare ID that you got from your local library) or walk in to get it at UT with your TexShare borrower card. Dont have a TexShare card? You can get that at your local library as well. Looks like something worth exploring. Maelgwyn (paid government shill and program manager for the Library of Texas) Edited by Mark S. Harris p-stories-msg Page 11 of 11