recorders-msg - 1/20/15

Medieval recorders. playing, buying.

NOTE: See also the files: instruments-msg, flutes-msg, song-sources-msg, p-songs-msg, bagpipes-msg, trumpets-msg, trumpet-build-art, SI-songbook1-art.

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From: andrew at bransle.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Draskoy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Recorders (was Irish Music)
Date: 5 Apr 1994 19:22:11 GMT
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland

sj6070f90 at auvax1.adelphi.edu wrote:
> but it is ok to use a plastic recorder in place of a wooden one

If you are interested in differences between period music and modern,
you should note that there's another, even bigger difference.  As far
as we can tell from the one-and-a-half extant ones, Medieval recorders
were quite different beasts from the baroque-based modern recorders
that we use now.  For one thing, the bore was cylindrical, not
conical.  It also appears that the instruments were stopped, not open,
at the bottom.  I'm no luthier, but I think the former difference means
a slightly reduced range and a louder tone, and the later would drop
the pitch by an octave.  There are other differences as well.

Hunt, Edgar: The Recorder and its Music, Eulenberg, London, 1977

_The New Grove Dictionary of Musical Instruments_, vol. 3, p. 207

Weber, Rainer: "Recorder Finds from the Middle Ages, and Results 
	of their Reconstruction,", _Galpin Society Journal_ vol. XXIX
	(May 1976) Pp. 35-41
--
Miklos Sandorfia of Ar n-Eilean-ne
andrew at bransle.ucs.mun.ca


From: sbloch at ms.uky.edu (Stephen Bloch)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Recorders (was Irish Music)
Date: 9 Apr 1994 00:37:31 -0400
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

Andrew Draskoy <andrew at bransle.ucs.mun.ca> wrote:
>If you are interested in differences between period music and modern,
>you should note that there's another, even bigger difference.  As far
>as we can tell from the one-and-a-half extant ones, Medieval recorders
>were quite different beasts from the baroque-based modern recorders
>that we use now.

Even this "one-and-a-half" is putting a good face on it, since (if I
remember right) the "one" had obviously undergone major modifications and
less-than-successful repairs before it was lost for 500 years.

>For one thing, the bore was cylindrical, not conical.
>It also appears that the instruments were stopped, not open,
>at the bottom.

!!!??? This is the first I've heard of such a drastic difference.  I'm
reading Antique Sound Workshop's catalogue description of reconstructed
medieval recorders, and it mentions "extremely wide cylindrical bores" but
makes no mention of stopped bottoms.  I'll have to check those references
Andrew cites.

>I'm no luthier, but I think the former difference means
>a slightly reduced range and a louder tone, and the later would drop
>the pitch by an octave.

In my experience with "Renaissance-style" recorders (which also have
cylindrical bores), the bore makes the low end of the range a little more
solid (anybody who's ever learned the recorder has struggled to develop
the breath control to get the bottom note or two without overblowing),
at the expense of several notes at the top end.  It also seems to produce
a windier, less bell-like tone.

Wind instruments with stopped tubes do tend to play an octave lower than
instruments the same size with open tubes, but you can't just take a
recorder and stop the end to take it down an octave.  (I just tried this
with my alto, and it worked beautifully for the bottom note, but if any
holes are open the effect is lost.)
-- 
				mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
					Stephen Bloch
				     sbloch at s.ms.uky.edu


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From:  <lucinda_lundin at cl_63smtp.gw.chinalake.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Searching for a wooden flute
Organization: NAWS, China Lake, CA
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 17:32:02 GMT

wpeloqui at medar.COM (Willie Peloquin) wrote:

> I am looking for a merchant who sells wooden musical
> instruments. I would prefer a flute or something
> similar. Would a flute be in period? I know I can
> purchase a wooden recorder locally, it must be
> special ordered.
> 
> Willie

 I have purchased three recorders from von Huene Workshop, Inc. 
and have been very happy with their service.  They also sell other
woodwinds, period and modern. If you have a credit
card, they will send you several instruments and will charge you
when you make your choice.  Two of my instruments came from their 
extensive consigment selection.  They also sell period music and have
a small catalog/brochure.

Their address is:
von Huene Workshop, Inc
65 Boylston St.
Brookline, MA 02146
617/277-8690
vonhuene at world.std.com

Yours,
Lucinda


From: shermand at mindspring.com (Dennis R. Sherman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval toys -Specificly Musical Instruments - the recorder
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 13:50:05 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises

Greetings to the Rialto from Robyyan.

Aleyse (Chantal Pecourt <cpecourt at mhv.net>) wrote:

>recently saw a Kutch Sophrano recorder. It says Swiss made and is all 
>wood. It looks in near if not perfect condition. I know nothing about 
>recorders but really want to learn how to play one. They are asking $48 
>for it, is that expensive? SHould I buy a wooden one or go for the 
>cheaper plastic ones? And how hard are they to learn to play??

I've been playing recorder for >15 years (and other winds for >30).
I've never heard of the Kutch brand, but there are *lots* of recorder
makers out there...  IMHO, you are better off buying a plastic Yamaha
300 series soprano recorder, if soprano is what you want.  Not just
any plastic recorder, but this specific one.  It will cost about $20,
and is a very fine instrument.  Don't let outdated opinions on plastic
vs. wood sway you -- the design of the instrument is far more
important to the sound than the material the instrument is made of.
At higher prices, with custom and hand built instruments, the material
makes a difference.  But you need to start at several hundred dollars
for a soprano before that becomes a consideration.  Especially for SCA
use, plastic is a far better choice -- much more durable, much more
forgiving of haphazard maintenance.

As far as difficult to play... well, it varies.  Like any other
instrument, it takes practice.  You can get to mediocre pretty easily.
There are none of the problems of oboe, clarinet,  flute, or any of
the brass instruments, with learning to make a sound, which is a great
advantage.  The fingerings are pretty straightforward, and anyone who
has played any wind instrument is going to feel fairly comfortable
pretty quickly.  Getting to be good is more work... :-)

Here's two suppliers I've used and am happy with for Early Music
things -- I know they both carry the Yamaha plastic recorders.  BTW,
the Yamaha 300 series is available in sizes from sopranino through
bass, and all are good instruments.

Von Huene Workshop, Inc.  
59-65 Boylston St.
Brookline, MA   20146
617-277-8690

Kelischek Workshop
Rt. 1 box 26
Brasstown, NC   28902
704-837-5833

If anyone is interested in more discussion of wood vs. plastic, I'll
be at Pennsic with both, and happy to help train other people's ears.
:-)

Robyyan Torr d'Elandris                     Dennis R. Sherman
Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill, Atlantia   Chapel Hill, NC
robyyan at mindspring.com                      dennis.sherman at mindspring.com
http://www.unc.edu/~sherman/robyyan.html    http://www.unc.edu/~sherman/


From: cyberspace at midlink.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval toys -Specificly Musical Instruments - the recorder
Date: 12 Jul 1996 14:10:30 GMT
Organization: Cyberspace

In article <31E5A53A.6549 at mhv.net>, Chantal Pecourt <cpecourt at mhv.net> 
wrote:
>Hello
>       While musical instruemnts are not specificly "toys" I took the 
>term in a generic sense to mean what we as adults like to play with. ( 
>that and I cannot figure out how to start a post, forgive me ). I 
>recently saw a Kutch Sophrano recorder. It says Swiss made and is all 
>wood. It looks in near if not perfect condition. I know nothing about 
>recorders but really want to learn how to play one. They are asking $48 
>for it, is that expensive? SHould I buy a wooden one or go for the 
>cheaper plastic ones? And how hard are they to learn to play??
>
>many thanks
>
>Aleyse

Oh, goody! Something I know about! <BG>
$48 is very reasonable for a soprano recorder--it's what mine cost 7 yrs 
ago.  How easy it is to learn depends on how much music experience you 
already have, what books you can get, and how much--if any--help you can 
get if you want it.  There are many people in the Society who play 
recorders of various types and would be willing to teach, I being 
one--however I got into a medieval music group in college, learned about 
the SCA at a ren faire we were to perform at and then joined :).  
Two very helpful self-teach books are: the _Hugh Orr Basic Recorder 
Technique(soprano/alto)_, and the _Von Trapp Family Book on the Soprano 
Recorder_--I lent out my copy and can't remember the exact name.
If you can get into an ensembe, do.  I miss the challenge of playing one 
part that needs to blend with several.

Hope this helps!

In Service to the Dream,
          Erzsebet


From: uggpfr0008 at mtvms2.mtech.edu (Frank Reinart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval toys -Specificly Musical Instruments - the recorder
Date: 13 Jul 1996 17:03:45 GMT
Organization: Montana Tech

In article <31E5A53A.6549 at mhv.net>, Chantal Pecourt <cpecourt at mhv.net> writes:
>Hello
>       While musical instruemnts are not specificly "toys" I took the 
>term in a generic sense to mean what we as adults like to play with. ( 
>that and I cannot figure out how to start a post, forgive me ). I 
>recently saw a Kutch Sophrano recorder. It says Swiss made and is all 
>wood. It looks in near if not perfect condition. I know nothing about 
>recorders but really want to learn how to play one. They are asking $48 
>for it, is that expensive? SHould I buy a wooden one or go for the 
>cheaper plastic ones? And how hard are they to learn to play??

Speaking from the perspective of a recorder player, I believe that you will
find a recorder a very easy instrument to pick up.  I've taught several 
people to play before, and had an easy time of it, even when those people had
never played an instrument before.  It also benefits as a fairly common
instrument, with plenty of music out there and available for it.  Of course,
there are also benefits to playing live music at SCA dancing, rather than
relying on the crutch of a bard-in-a-box (nothing is more annoying than to
have to stop a Hole In the Wall dance because the blasted tape was finished
:)   ).

$48 seems to me to be pretty inexpensive for most of the wooden recorders I've
seen (one reason why I don't own one right now).  I don't know how much of
a reflection that is on the quality of the instrument, so it might be good to
find a good recorder player in your area to check the instrument out before
you buy it.

As far as wooden versus plastic, that's a little at your discretion.  Wooden
recorders, of course, look period, while most plastic ones do not.  But that's 
really a pretty moot point to me. I've played both at SCA events and not had 
any comments about the lack of authenticity surrounding the plastic recorder.
Rather, most people are just glad for live music, no matter where it's coming 
from (and for those that do have an authenticity problem, I've been to a wide
variety of events, and seen far more bards-in-a-box at SCA dancing then I've
seen live recorder music).  Wooden recorders are far more difficult to upkeep,
and you'd want to have someone show you how that is done.  Moisture, somewhat 
common at outdoor SCA events can also ruin a wooden recorder, despite your 
best efforts to preserve it.  Plastic is somewhat susceptible to temperature,
but I've never had a serious problem with that (and I've played in a wide
variety of temperatures).  Really, if it's a good recorder, I'd pick up that
wooden one, because $48 seems a reasonable price to me (and cheaper than a
lot I have seen), but pick yourself up a $3 some plastic recorder too, for
those times when a wooden one isn't appropriate to play.

If you have any questions you'd like to ask me, feel free to email me.  I
won't have that address passed the end of July though.

In the Service,
Edmund Snowden
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*   Frank D. Reinart                             uggpfr0008 at mtvms2.mtech.edu   *
*   Montana Tech                                                               *
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From: uggpfr0008 at mtvms2.mtech.edu (Frank Reinart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval toys -Specificly Musical Instruments - the recorder
Date: 13 Jul 1996 17:07:02 GMT
Organization: Montana Tech

In article <4s5mcm$o2p at news.paonline.com>, cyberspace at midlink.com writes:
>Two very helpful self-teach books are: the _Hugh Orr Basic Recorder 
>Technique(soprano/alto)_, and the _Von Trapp Family Book on the Soprano 
>Recorder_--I lent out my copy and can't remember the exact name.

The basic recorder book published by Mel Bay is another really good book.
It's the one I learned from, and the one both I and Lady Aoife teach others
from.

In the Service,
Edmund Snowden
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
*   Frank D. Reinart                             uggpfr0008 at mtvms2.mtech.edu   *
*   Montana Tech                                                               *
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From: barbanis at vnet.ibm.COM (George Barbanis)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Recorders
Date: 15 Jul 1996 02:47:27 -0400
Organization: The Internet

While on the subject of the recorders, you may want to check this web
page out: http://www.iinet.net.au/~nickl/recorder.html
It has excellent material on recorders, including very detailed fingering
charts etc.  No, I have not written that page, but I wish I had :-)
In Service
Alexios Macedon


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bq676 at torfree.net (Kristine E. Maitland)
Subject: Re: Medieval toys -Specificly Musical Instruments - the recorder
Message-ID: <DuMELu.9EM.0.sheppard at torfree.net>
Organization: Toronto Free-Net

4ru033$3up at pith.uoregon.edu> <31E5A53A.6549 at mhv.net>:
Organization: Toronto Free-Net

Chantal Pecourt (cpecourt at mhv.net) wrote:
: Hello
:       While musical instruemnts are not specificly "toys" I took the 
: term in a generic sense to mean what we as adults like to play with. ( 
: that and I cannot figure out how to start a post, forgive me ). I 
: recently saw a Kutch Sophrano recorder. It says Swiss made and is all 
: wood. It looks in near if not perfect condition. I know nothing about 
: recorders but really want to learn how to play one. They are asking $48 
: for it, is that expensive? SHould I buy a wooden one or go for the 
: cheaper plastic ones? And how hard are they to learn to play??

While I know nothing about good wood recorders (i.e. what is a good brand 
to purchase) I can say that to start out, a plastic one will do just 
fine.   Most people start with a soprano recorder but frankly, I prefer 
the tone of an alto or tenor.  If you've played clarinet then you'll find 
that the alto will not be difficult as the fingerings are practically the 
same.

Are they hard to learn?  Well, i got my first recorder when I was seven 
or so -- the first things I taught myself to play was The Theme from the 
Friendly Giant (or "Early one morning) and the theme from M*A*S*H ( or 
"Suicide is Painless").

Trust me, you'll be playing bransles in no time.

cantana
Ines Carmen Maria de Freitas


From: chimera at dove.mtc.net.au
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval toys -Specificly Musical Instruments - the recorder
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 1996 01:50:55 GMT
Organization: Microtronics Information Systems

uggpfr0008 at mtvms2.mtech.edu (Frank Reinart) wrote:

>As far as wooden versus plastic, that's a little at your discretion.  Wooden
>recorders, of course, look period, while most plastic ones do not.  But that's 
>really a pretty moot point to me

Well, my sister played one for years before she took up the flute but
hated the white plastic look, so I used acrylic paints to create faux
finishes ranging from generic wood to tortoiseshell. The acyrlics
didn't affect the plastic, and were eacy to touch up if they chipped
around the fingerholes. I would advise using black rather than white
recorders, because that way you can leave the mouthpiece unpainted
without it being glaringly obvious, unless you are creating a faux
bamboo instrument for an eastern persona . . . 

Books on all kinds of paint finishes, including marble, are readily
available, and its worth looking them up and experimenting. You can
also buy small kits suitable for table-sized projects. Most kits use
oil finishes, but you can experiment and adapt the techniques to dry
poster paints and acrylics.

I do not advocate using them everywhere, but they look less glaring
that steel poles on a tent (or wood-grained contact for that matter)
and a faux sepentine inset on a feasting box is a lot cheaper than the
real thing. When they don't work out perfectly, I take comfort in The
Candle-light Factor : almost everything looks passable halfway through
a candle-lit feast, and at least you've /tried/.

Guimora Peverel


From: sbloch at adl15.adelphi.edu (Stephen Bloch)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval toys -Specificly Musical Instruments - the recorder
Date: 18 Jul 1996 12:58:36 GMT
Organization: Adelphi University, Garden City, NY

Chantal Pecourt (cpecourt at mhv.net) wrote:
>: I recently saw a Kutch Sophrano recorder. It says Swiss made and is all 
>: wood. It looks in near if not perfect condition. I know nothing about 
>: recorders but really want to learn how to play one. They are asking $48 
>: for it, is that expensive? SHould I buy a wooden one or go for the 
>: cheaper plastic ones? And how hard are they to learn to play??

A wooden soprano recorder for $48 is probably not very good: the most
likely problem is that it won't play in tune, either with itself or
with other instruments.

For less money you can get an excellent plastic recorder, which is less
affected by temperature, humidity, etc.  Look for the brands Yamaha,
Aulos, or Zen-On.  (If you're buying a tenor or larger, I think Yamaha
is the only decent choice.)

I almost always recommend plastic recorders to beginners; in addition
to the above reasons, I wouldn't buy a wooden recorder without personally
giving it a good workout first, and a beginner doesn't know enough to do
that.  Every wooden recorder is different, even the same model from the
same maker; every plastic recorder of a given model and maker is pretty
similar.  If you're worried about _looking_ period, at least one of the
aforementioned makers has wood-grain finishes that will pass the
ten-foot test.

Kristine E. Maitland <bq676 at torfree.net> replied:
>While I know nothing about good wood recorders (i.e. what is a good brand 
>to purchase) I can say that to start out, a plastic one will do just 
>fine.   Most people start with a soprano recorder but frankly, I prefer 
>the tone of an alto or tenor.

Agreed.  Altos and tenors cost more, but they're easier to play in tune
with one another, and you can practice them late at night without
annoying your neighbors and roommates.  (Well, not as much :-)

Once you've gotten good enough on the recorder that the warmer tone
color of wood is worth the added hassle, you have a number of decisions
to make.  Most commercially available recorders are "Baroque-style",
optimized for playing Baroque solos.  Most of these have a bunch of
ornamental turnings.  For medieval and Renaissance music, especially in
consort, I prefer a "Renaissance-style" recorder, which has various
construction differences that add up to a less reliable high range, a
more solid low range, and a less piercing tone; these are generally
plainer in appearance.

As for makers of wooden recorders, I have a very nice Gill Baroque
soprano that only cost me $60 (after I played a minute or two on every
one of the dozens of wooden soprano recorders at that particular store).
I have a Moeck Renaissance soprano that cost me $100 used; it's OK
by itself, but doesn't play in tune with other instruments.  I have
a Mollenhauer Renaissance alto that cost me $275; it's an excellent
instrument, if you don't mind a somewhat windy tone.  We have several
Kobliczek Renaissance recorders, which are also excellent and a little
sweeter in tone; their prices are comparable to Mollenhauers.
All of the above instruments are years old, and would probably cost
twice as much new today.  They're also all at least partly "factory-made";
top-notch hand-made recorders can run $600 for a soprano, and more for
larger instruments.

So recorders CAN eat big bucks, if you're willing to spend them.  But
again, you can get an excellent plastic instrument for under $50.  Don't
worry about the wooden ones until you basically know how to play, and
then get advice from a reputable early-musical-instrument dealer like
the New England Early Music Shop, the Boulder Early Music Shop, or
Courtly Music Unlimited.  Also go to early-music workshops and get
advice from the teachers and more experienced students.

As for "how hard are they to learn to play", the trickiest part is
breath control.  Ken Wollitz's _The Recorder Book_ has a whole chapter
of breath-control exercises that help both beginners and experienced
players, in addition to fingering charts, a chapter on buying and
maintaining a wooden recorder, and a bunch of other advice.

                                        mar-Joshua ibn-Eleazar ha-Shalib
--
                                                 Stephen Bloch
                                           sbloch at panther.adelphi.edu
                                         http://www.adelphi.edu/~sbloch/
                                        Math/CS Dept, Adelphi University


From: FPAGNIEL at UGA.CC.UGA.EDU (Frederick Pagniello)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Playing the Recorder
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 97 18:36:27 EST
Organization: University of Georgia

In article <5g93fk$ics$1 at cathedral.cerc.wvu.edu>
ewhite at cs.wvu.edu (Elliott White III) writes:
 
>2) Is the soprano the only actually period one?  I myself am thinking
>of playing the Alto so that my wife and I could do some nice duets,
>however, I don't want to sink the $30 into buying the alto to have
>people walking up to me all the time telling me that it isn't period.
 
No.  Period recorders ranged from the sopranino to the bass (I've seen
a picture of a period bass of about 7 feet in length, but I do not know
its nomenclature).  You shouldn't have any problem with selection.  Indeed,
hopefully you will become proficient in a range of recorders.
 
The only complaint one could make against you is that you are playing a
baroque-style recorder.  Now, if some does this, then say to them that
you will be more than happy to play a period recorder....just fork over
the $$$$ (tell them you want a Von Huene or a Morgan).
 
By the by, seek out the players of other period instruments, such as the
violaists.  You will be pleasently surprised by the results.
>
>3) Where can we find some nice books of sheet music for period songs?
>Our local store has a wonderful book of Elizibethan songs written for
>duet: Soprano and Alto, which I think I am going to pick up for my
>wife and myself if the Alto is "period enough"

Try the following:
 
                 Von Huene Workshops,
                 59-76 Boylston Street,
                 Brookline, MA 02146.
                 (617) 277-8690.
 
                 Courtly Music Unlimited,
                 1-800-2-RICHIE
 
Either should be able to assist you in your search for music, and they do
mail-order.
 
Gnaeus Valerius Sidero.


From: dlblanc at earthlink.net (Donald L. Blanchard)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Playing the Recorder
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 07:51:21 GMT

On 13 Mar 1997 14:37:40 GMT, ewhite at cs.wvu.edu (Elliott White III) wrote:

>Hello, my wife and I have both decided to take up the recorder and
>have been having awonderful time playing it.
>
>We have a few questions though we were hoping someone could answer us:
>
>1) Is the only difference between a German and a Barouque recorder the
>fingering difference for the Low F?  That seems to be the only
>difference listed in our Mel Bay: Basic Recorder Method book.

Frankly, I am not familiar with a 'German' recorder, although I do recall some
fingering differences.  The only true period recorders that I know of were made
in one piece, which means not tunable.  The standard 'Baroque' recorder was made
in three pieces, and is technically not period.  For practicality (i.e. playing
with other musicians), I highly recommend a two piece recorder, period or not.

>2) Is the soprano the only actually period one?  I myself am thinking
>of playing the Alto so that my wife and I could do some nice duets,
>however, I don't want to sink the $30 into buying the alto to have
>people walking up to me all the time telling me that it isn't period.

Definitely not.  I have seen references (Henry VIII, if I remember right) to a
consort of four recorders, the highest of which was a tenor, with bass,
contra-bass, and something else below that.  Of course, all four recorders in a
period consort were manufactured - and pitched - together; there were no
guarantees if you mixed sets!

I would recommend that you acquire, and learn to play, as many different pitches
as your budget will allow.  This allows you a lot more freedom in choosing
material to play.  BTW, there were at least two pitches of recorder above the
soprano, as well (although you might be asked to leave the room if you try to
play them in public).  BTW, cheap recorders usually don't sound THAT much worse
than expensive ones; I suggest you learn to play them well before shelling out
big bucks.
__
Louis leBlanc, O.L.      |  Donald L. Blanchard
Barony of Caerthe        |  dlblanc at earthlink.net
Kingdom of the Outlands  |  Denver, Colorado, USA


From: dwbutler at mtu.edu (Daniel W. Butler-Ehle)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Playing the Recorder
Date: 18 Mar 1997 19:54:47 -0500
Organization: Michigan Technological University

Louis leBlanc (dlblanc at earthlink.net) wrote:
: On 13 Mar 1997 14:37:40 GMT, ewhite at cs.wvu.edu (Elliott White III) wrote:
: 
: >1) Is the only difference between a German and a Barouque recorder the
: >fingering difference for the Low F?  That seems to be the only
: >difference listed in our Mel Bay: Basic Recorder Method book.
: >
: Frankly, I am not familiar with a 'German' recorder, although I do recall some
: fingering differences.

As I understand it, German fingering was invented early in this century 
during the great early music revival either due to a misunderstanding 
of of the Baroque-era instruments or as an intentional simplification of 
the fingering.  It avoids the split-finger formation of the low F on 
the soprano (German-fingered recorders are almost exclusively sopranos).
But as you may notice, some sharps and flats are split-fingered, so the 
value of this simplification is dubious.  It's not in use much outside 
of primary school classrooms.

: The only true period recorders that I know of were made in one piece, 
: which means not tunable.  The standard 'Baroque' recorder was made
: in three pieces, and is technically not period.  

Yes, the period Renaissance recorder was a different animal from its
Baroque successors.  But start with a Baroque recorder anyway.  And 
learn about the differences so that you will at least be able to 
recognize your anachronisms.  *Then* get a Renaisance-style instrument 
if you're still so inclined.  [It would be neat if someone made three-
piece Baroque recorders (inverse conical bore, perhaps a curved windway,
etc.) that had the outward appearance of their Renaissance counterparts.]

(I must admit, I'm hardly familiar with Renaissance fingering, but I 
would suspect that having a cylindrical bore prevents it from having 
fingering identical to Baroque recorders. Anyone?)

: For practicality (i.e. playing with other musicians), I highly 
: recommend a two piece recorder, period or not.

I second the recommendation. A two- (or three-)piece Baroque recorder. 
I would also add that if your budget limits your choices to either a
bottom-of-the-line wooden recorder or a similarly-priced plastic model, 
you should consider the plastic one. 
 
: I have seen references (Henry VIII, if I remember right) to a
: consort of four recorders, the highest of which was a tenor, with bass,
: contra-bass, and something else below that.  

As I understand it, the modern names are:

c" Gar Kleine Sopanino (Recoder Piccolo) (rare and annoyingly shrill)
f' Sopranino
c' Soprano (Descant)
f  Alto (Treble)
c  Tenor
F  Bass
C  Great Bass
F' Contra Bass (about 7 feet tall)

(I probably screwed up the pitch notation. In any case, the Tenor 
starts at middle C on a piano.)

How come there's no "Baritone" voice in early instruments?

Ulfin
Principality of Northshield, M.K.


Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 13:23:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "Daniel W. Butler-Ehle" <dwbutler at mtu.edu>
To: "Mark S. Harris" <markh at risc.sps.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Playing the Recorder

On Sat, 22 Mar 1997, Mark S. Harris wrote:
> Hmm. I still have the wooden recorder I played back in second grade,
> long before the plastic ones came out.

I believe plastic recorders have been in the classroom since the 
early 60s.  Probably polystyrene at first, now they're ABS.

> I've assumed it was a soprano model. 

Safe assumption.  Beginning a student on another size is quite 
unusual (unless fingerspan is a problem, then maybe they might 
teach sopranino, but I'm just speculating).  (This assumes that 
it was taught as the student's introduction to instrumental 
music.  If the student is already an instrumentalist, and the 
teacher is assembling a consort, then certainly they might begin 
with a different size as needed.)

> How do I identify a "German-fingered" recorder?

On an English (Baroque) recorder, the fourth hole (from foot to 
fipple) is smaller than the fifth hole.  Vice versa with German 
fingering.  

True Baroque fingering (as if it was ever really standardized) 
had a few small differences from English fingering, which is its 
modern variant/interpretation.  But they are close enough that the 
terms are usually interchangeable. Or so I've read. I've never 
seen a fingering chart for antique Baroque recorders. Indeed, 
I even have several modern recorders that differ slightly from 
one another on the fingering of some notes (particularly in the 
second register).

Ulfin


From: lindahl at pbm.com (Greg Lindahl)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Recorders : Wood vs Plastic, Medieval vs Modern
Date: 20 May 1997 13:24:10 GMT

"Jeff Foehringer" <jjf100 at ccia.com> writes:
>        I am looking to purchase a soprano recorder in the next month.  At
> first,  I considered the Yamaha plastic model.  Basically, I don't have
> over a hundred dollars to spend, and I have heard that a good plastic
> recorder is better than a cheap wooden one.

Even if you buy an expensive wooden one, it's handy to have a cheap
plastic one to let your friends borrow, and take out in inclement
weather.

>     However, the Antique Sound Workshop webpage contains four wooden
> recorders that they claim are the best in the price range.  I was wondering
> if any good gentles have any experience with any of these models.

I have friends who own these. They are about the only wooden recorders
in that price range, and they really aren't that much better or worse
than the cheap Yamaha. Fortunately, they don't cost an arm and a leg,
so if you have the cash, please yourself.

Neither the Yamaha or the Kung is very renaissance-ish, though. For a
renaissance recorder you want a wide, cylindrical bore and large
finger holes. I have a "Ganassi" alto in G made by Robert Turner, and
it's definitely different from the Kung and plastic, although your
average listener wouldn't know.

-- gb


From: ncb at my-dejanews.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: medieval recorder music
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:01:29 GMT

> > hi!  I just got  a recorder for my birthday (thanks, ric!) and I'd like
> > to know what to play on it.
snip
> Also, there's a music publisher called Sweet Pipes (23 Scholar Lane,
> Levittown, NY 11756) that publishes sheet music for the recorder.  Don't
> know if they have a web site or not.

For recorder sheet music, you should definitely check out
http://www.sheetmusicplus.com because they list over 7,000
titles just for recorder.


From: Daniel W. Butler-Ehle <dwbutler at mtu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: medieval recorder music
Date: 18 Nov 1998 22:58:11 GMT
Organization: Michigan Technological University

Esther Mendes <celyn at drizzle.com> wrote:
: On 14 Nov 1998, Pel1inore wrote:
: > hi!  I just got  a recorder for my birthday (thanks, ric!) and I'd like
: > to know what to play on it. 

: Also, there's a music publisher called Sweet Pipes (23 Scholar Lane,
: Levittown, NY 11756) that publishes sheet music for the recorder.  Don't
: know if they have a web site or not.

They also publish (I probably don't have a name quite right) the 
_Sweet Pipes Recorder Book: a method for adult students_. It skips 
the basic stuff on how to read music (assuming you know already 
or can figure it out on your own without all the hand-holding 
common in methods designed for children).  It's available in two 
versions: one for Soprano (and other C recorders, I s'pose) and 
one for Alto (and sopranino and bass, etc.).  

The C book and the F book use the same fingerings for the same 
lessons, the music is just transposed.  I was kinda disappointed 
by that; I think it would be fun for a group of beginners to 
start out as a consort. (Not that the difference in keys would 
sound bad when played together, but I would like to have some 
multi-part stuff that is really simple but isn't entirely 
parallel.)

On that thought, does anyone have any suggestions for forming a
novice-level consort?  I would like to start a group to play 
common SCA dance tunes. Anyone know where I might look for 
simpler-than-average three-part versions of such music? 

Ulfin


From: Jeffrey Clark <jmclark85 at gmail.com>
Date: February 14, 2012 10:48:15 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

Stefan,

There is a lot of strange (outdated?) advice in the buying recorders thread. As a professional recorder player and teacher, I would say that the only recorder that an entry-level player should consider purchasing is a Yamaha 300 series. Most of my teachers have one or two knocking around and use them as practice instruments, and many, many other professionals have them.

Until you are ready to spend >$500 on an instrument, you cannot go wrong with the Yamaha 300.   I cannot tell you how many recorder players I've seen who had purchased an off-brand plastic or a cheap wooden recorder and had the inferior instrument hold them back or kill their enjoyment altogether.

Also, if anyone will be at Elfsea defender -- I will be there, and am willing to give lessons/classes/play for dancers. I'm usually very easy to spot.
--AS Zorzi


From: ledonna mcgowan <ledmcgowan at gmail.com>
Date: February 15, 2012 8:24:15 AM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

What are the more popular dance songs?  I have a copy of Master Avatar's
music "Early Period and Popular Dance Music" and want to work out some of
the alto and tenor parts as well as soprano.

Delphina

BTW:  If you took my recorder class at the last King's College I need to
warn you that Lyons has changed the way they make their recorders and they
are no longer in tune through out the registers.  Not worth the money any
more.


From: Adalia <adalia.nyx at gmail.com>
Date: February 15, 2012 11:05:16 AM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

This is a GREAT starter recorder.  Eventually, you'll need some recorder grease to put the pieces together and allow for tuning to play with otherinstruments (it comes in a little tub similar to carmex lip balm).  This is exactly what I recommend when I start teaching someone to play.  I will say that you can sometimes find the same recorder in a more neutral color scheme so that it doesn't stand out quite so much when playing at events, but even that is a minimal consideration.  :)

<<< Would you agree with the recommendation for the Yamaha 300 series
then?  And to all of you, if one was just wanting to tip one's toe
into things (and not buy the set of four recorders), which recorder
would be the best to start with?  Something like this C-Soprano?

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-3-Piece-C-Soprano-Recorder-Brown/dp/B0002EB5U8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1329324910&sr=8-2

--Antoine >>>
-- 
HL Adalia VonderBerg


From: ledonna mcgowan <ledmcgowan at gmail.com>
Date: February 15, 2012 11:44:58 AM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

Yes... Yamaha makes some great recorders... here is another site with free shipping..

http://www.wwbw.com/Yamaha-YRS-302B-Professional-Soprano-Recorder-with-Baroque-Fingering-460046-i1142351.wwbw

My alto is a tudor and my tenor is an aulos and both are nice instruments for a good price.  Also found at www.wwbw.com

Delphina


From: Jennifer Smith <jds at randomgang.com>
Date: February 15, 2012 11:55:59 AM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

I would add that if you're going to buy a recorder (and I heartily second the recommendations for the Yamaha 300 series), buy an alto. It's around $35 or so, but for that extra price over a soprano, you will be more able to blend into a group. Usually in any group of musicians, you only need one, maybe two, soprano instruments (particularly recorders).

-Emma


From: Zach Most <clermont1348 at yahoo.com>
Date: February 15, 2012 11:56:57 AM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

The Yamaha 300s are great.   Most ensembles have an abundance of soprano recorders, and the over all sound of the group tends to be better with all the parts covered, and the lower parts double covered.  Because of the frequency response of our ears, tenor recorders in particular are pretty quiet.  Their parts tend to be easier too.  The tenor is an octave lower than the soprano, so you'd only have to learn one mapping for a fingering to a note if you'd like to hop to playing a lead line later.  For these reasons I'd nudge you toward a tenor if you can.  Altos are great too.  They tend to have a pleasant voice, they're a great compromise since you can play lots of harmonies and many lead parts if you'd like, and they fit better for folks with smaller hands than a tenor does.  Alto and sopranino are an octave apart.

  Gaston


From: Jeffrey Clark <jmclark85 at gmail.com>
Date: February 15, 2012 12:31:22 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

I always start my students on the alto. Really, the soprano recorder is almost un-period for consort use. An alto will always sound better than a soprano, and a good alto player can play almost all of the SCA literature -- I've hit maybe three dances that I just could not play on the soprano.

My recommendation cor purchasing entry-level recorders goes to the Antique Sound Workshop ( aswltd.com ) , they tine and voice each instrument they sell. You should also find a teacher. The American Recorder Society should have a list of teachers near you. Don't just take random advice from people, find a serious recorder player -- we have quite a few here in Texas. This is doubly true if you don't have a background in music: a little proper instruction goes a LONG way.

-- AS Zorzi


From: ledonna mcgowan <ledmcgowan at gmail.com>
Date: February 15, 2012 12:57:31 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

It's not the spread that will keep you from making it... I have some 5th graders that love playing the tenor and their hands haven't stopped growing yet but my co worker doesn't like the tenor at all... it hurts her wrist.

If you are anywhere close to Loch Soilier/Stargate area we can meet and you are welcome to try a tenor and alto before you buy it.. smile.

Delphina


From: Jennifer Smith <jds at randomgang.com>
Date: February 15, 2012 3:00:54 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

Cynthia, if you can get up to Mooneschadowe's area sometime (we have an
event in Stillwater this weekend!) or at some other Northern event, let me know and I'll bring my Yamaha tenor recorder so you can see. Some tenors are better than others for spacing for fingers and wrists; I find mine okay if I'm in practice, but finger-cramping if I'm not.

As for reading music in C, yes -- I think most of us do! I certainly can't transpose in my head. The alto recorder, while an F instrument, is frequently taught in C with different fingerings. So for example, a G on a soprano/tenor is the same fingering as a C on a alto. It's possible to learn both 'sets' of fingerings, and make the mental switch when you switch instruments...most of the time! Occasionally I'll catch myself playing the wrong set on the wrong instrument.

-Emma


From: Jeffrey Clark <jmclark85 at gmail.com>
Date: February 15, 2012 4:08:24 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

Alto, always alto. The alto recorder has always been the favoured recorder for just about everything.

On Feb 15, 2012, at 15:50, Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com> wrote:
<<< Several people have recommended a recorder other than a soprano, when being used in a group of people playing.

But I've seldom seen more than one or two recorders being used at an SCA event. What about when you have a single recorder player and perhaps a singer, making the rounds of the bardic circles? Which type of recorder would you recommend for them?

Thanks for the interesting thread.
Stefan >>>


From: Jeffrey Clark <jmclark85 at gmail.com>
Date: February 15, 2012 4:18:32 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

As a point of comparison, during the course my studies I have bought one sopranino, 4 sopranos and 7 altos two tenors and one bass. I currently carry 3 sopranos and 5 altos, and I do 90% of my recitals/concerts/auditions on the alto.

The tenor and bass recorders are better off being replaced by a buzzy or a string, and it takes a fine amount of skill to play a soprano in tune, whereas the alto is more forgiving and has a richer tone to begin with. Also, most SCA venues are just unkind to the lower recorders anyway.

Alto recorders read in C. Don't try to think of them as being in F, just learn the alto as an alto and all will be fine. I routinely go between recorders in C, D, F, and G without a problem -- it's quite doable with a little practice and a little patience.

--AS Zorzi


From: Laura Young <laura.young.9191 at gmail.com>
Date: February 15, 2012 4:14:26 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

On Feb 15, 2012, at 1:38 PM, Jeffrey Clark wrote:
> You'll find a lot of SA SS and AA stuff for you.
<<< Huh?

Could you please translate this for me?  And other new or non-musicians?

Stefan >>>

SA = soprano/alto duet
SS = soprano/soprano duet
AA = alto/alto duet


From: Jeffrey Clark <jmclark85 at gmail.com>
Date: February 15, 2012 9:59:52 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] recorders

The side of the whistle part of the recorder, and the level of exactness with which it was made affects how well it sounds and responds to the player. The finger holes also need to be very specific sizes and shapes in order to vent the correct amount of air. If the tone holes are not right, it affects how well certain notes play in tune. This can mean that if you play a low C and a high C, one of the two might be sharp/flat even if everything else is correct. A properly made recorder will be very consistent about how it speaks and how much air it needs throughout its range.

This is where the choice of a first instrument really matters. I picked up a recorder in a music shop and it was so out of tune with itself that there were a few notes that were just unusable. I also had a lady come to the last recorder class that I taught with an instrument that -- try as I might-- I could not get to play in the second octave due to the labium being cut wrong.

If you are purchasing your first instrument (be it a recorder, trumpet,
oboe, whatever) you should never try to just pick one out.  You might get lucky, but you may also get a lemon, and that bad instrument might end up ruining your enjoyment of music (I've seen it happen more than a few times). Seeking the advice of someone who has been playing for awhile and knows what to look for in an instrument (even a $20-$35 recorder) can go a long way to helping you get something you will enjoy playing.

--AS Zorzi

On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 4:38 PM, ledonna mcgowan <ledmcgowan at gmail.com>wrote:
<<< Not all of the notes are in tune when you play low and high on this
recorder.  So if the high notes are in tune then the low notes.  In tune means that it sounds the same when everyone is playing the same fingerings or note.

If that didn't help let me know... it's harder to put into words than I
thought it would be... much easier to play out of tune to show you...
smile.

Delphina >>>


From: Jeffrey Clark <jmclark85 at gmail.com>
Date: February 15, 2012 10:10:47 PM CST
To: Zach Most <clermont1348 at yahoo.com>,  "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

<<< At Candlemas on Feb 4th there were five people playing recorders at
various times.  The alto is extremely versatile.  The Yamaha 300s are an economical choice that will weather camping conditions well.  I try to only play wooden instruments at SCA events, but happy music from a plastic instrument is better than none at all, or a boom box.  You can get a great buzzy (double reed) sound from a Glastonbury pipe for a low price.  They're quiet, but not hard to learn on if your relative pitch is decent.

 Gaston >>>

Sir Gaston,

The problem becomes that most wooden recorders you'll find floating around on the market aren't worth the wood they're made of. There is a glut of post-WWII recorders on the market that are just horrible, and many other wooden instruments from that time period aren't much better. I wasn't kidding when I said that until you are ready to spend $300+ on purchasing your recorder from a specialist, you are better off with the 300. I have yet to find a commercial, wooden recorder for <$150 that my plastic 300 didn't outclass. It is the sad state of things, but Yamaha has sunk a good deal of time into perfecting the 300 and most of the cheaper wooden models weren't made by people who knew what they were doing.

For wooden recorders for SCA use, my vote would go to the Mollenhauer
"Dream" recorders. Breukink is a genius, and the Dream recorders are
wonderful instruments -- just make sure that you warm it up before you
really start playing on it.

--AS Zorzi


From: Derek Harris <eats.bugs at gmail.com>
Date: February 15, 2012 3:58:00 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] recorders

<<< I'm sorry, I may own a recorder, but I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Maybe that's why I can't/don't play my recorder. :-) But what do you mean by "in tune through out the registers"?

Stefan >>>

It refers to whether each note is in tune with its cousin an octave higher or lower, and how much you have to adjust the instrument or notes to make it line up with a a=440 tuning frequency. That might be too technical.

Derek Harris (via iPhone)


From: ledonna mcgowan <ledmcgowan at gmail.com>
Date: February 16, 2012 6:57:54 AM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Ansteorra] Alto Recorder

After playing my alto for more and a few pieces that my kids play I would not recommend the Tudor.  It's great if you don't need a quick response in the lower notes.  I'm going to order a Yamaha soon... smile.

Delphina


From: ledonna mcgowan <ledmcgowan at gmail.com>
Date: February 16, 2012 6:45:27 AM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

<<< I wouldn't think it would matter so much what sort of recorder you use if you can sound good (good tuning, balances, no one louder than another). If you have an alto recorder when the music calls for soprano, you may need to transpose. But it really just means you need to know what your music calls for. If all the key signatures look the same, you have like instruments and/or singer. If its different, you're probably looking at mixed voices.

Derek Harris >>>

Most people don't transpose with recorders like they do with say clarinets and trumpets.  You just learn a different fingering for the alto/bass recorders and everyone reads in C ... just like voices would.

I transpose for my kids because I want to focus on making music rather then them learning a new fingering system.  Musicality is more important to me. We talk about why we have the extra notes on the music and how if they really want to be good they will learn the other fingerings and I have a few that can transpose parts but not many.

Delphina


From: Jeffrey Clark <jmclark85 at gmail.com>
Date: February 16, 2012 7:35:27 AM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

Choosing the right instrument can go a long way to helping tuning and balance, and there is a reason most professional recorder players will avoid playing soprano unless they absolutely have to. Unless you have a very well-made soprano recorder, it is very hard not to sound shrill, and it takes some seriouls control to play a soprano recorder in tune with other instruments.

Early instruments do not transpose. Everything is read at sounding pitch. Actually, I was looking at a facsimile of a manuscript for one of Purcell's orchestral works, and I noticed that the "flute" part was transposed, after a moment I realised why: it was so that someone playing on a soprano recorder could play the part reading it as if they were playing an alto. So, apparently Purcell's recorder player didn't play soprano that much....

--AS Zorzi

On Feb 15, 2012, at 16:04, Derek Harris <eats.bugs at gmail.com> wrote:
<<< I wouldn't think it would matter so much what sort of recorder you use if you can sound good (good tuning, balances, no one louder than another). If you have an alto recorder when the music calls for soprano, you may need to transpose. But it really just means you need to know what your music calls for. If all the key signatures look the same, you have like instruments and/or singer. If its different, you're probably looking at mixed voices.

Derek Harris >>>


From: ledonna mcgowan <ledmcgowan at gmail.com>
Date: March 1, 2012 7:34:19 AM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

Just got my new alto Yamaha 312B and it's wonderful.  Clear, clean tones all the way thought.  Can get the very high notes (E2) without any of the fuzz that the Tudor gets up there. Just went and ordered a soprano and tenor.

Delphina


From: Jeffrey Clark <jmclark85 at gmail.com>
Date: March 1, 2012 4:04:02 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

There is a while array of techniques on the instrument that rely on being able to shade a hole to varying degrees without fully covering it. It just takes practice and familiarity with the instrument, and an instrument that is well-made enough to respond.

It's not a dumb question, there are many facets of recorder playing that aren't commonly talked about in modern method books. Shading is usually done to control intonation for one reason or another, it is also more common on earlier recorders. 

--AS Zorzi

<< Okay, yes this may be a stupid question but are you saying that you get some notes by only partially covering some of the holes on the recorder? Sounds rather imprecise and tricky, and difficult to do consistently.

Stefan >>

On Mar 1, 2012, at 8:25 AM, Jeffrey Clark wrote:
<<< Glad to hear that you like it. It should be able to get up to high B, but I haven't quite gotten the c to speak (needed for one of the Telemann sonatas). I you can get up to a g (half of the thumb, 1-3|1-3 and a little of 4) you can play most of the SCA dance tunes where they lie.

--AS Zorzi >>>


From: Zach Most <clermont1348 at yahoo.com>
Date: March 1, 2012 4:42:12 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

<<< And if you think about it, covering a hole partially on a recorder isn't that much less precise than where to place your finger on a stringed instrument like the violin.  I truly appreciate musicians with the talent to play instruments well.

Liliana >>>

The analogy holds well to a degree.  If a string player is a little off with their finger position they'll be a little sharp or flat, and folks might not notice.  There's a steep roll off point particularly with the thumb hole on a recorder where a small mistake can make some dramatically unexpected sounds- you may be an octave off, which isn't the end of the world, or it can get squeaky, or play two notes at once.  It's not as unforgiving as double reeds tend to be.  Bagpipes are harder than they look.

  Gaston


From: ledonna mcgowan <ledmcgowan at gmail.com>
Date: March 1, 2012 3:31:16 PM CST
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] buying recorders (was: iso dance)

<<< Okay, yes this may be a stupid question but are you saying that you get some notes by only partially covering some of the holes on the recorder?
Sounds rather imprecise and tricky, and difficult to do consistently.

Stefan >>>

It's not a stupid question.

Yes there are some notes that are played by partially covering some of the holes and yes it is imprecise and tricky and difficult to do consistently but it's music... it's suppose to be from the soul... smile.  That's why it's important to have an instrument that responds well so that you eliminate as much of the chance as possible.

Delphina

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