shaving-msg - 9/4/01

Period shaving of hair. Shaving methods and tools.

NOTE: See also the files: cosmetics-msg, hair-msg, p-hygiene-msg, soap-msg, 
Roman-hygiene-msg, p-dental-care-msg, Perfumes-bib, bathing-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  
have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages 
date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These 
files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with 
separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes 
extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were 
removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  
no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual 
authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these 
messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. 
If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to 
the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: potterm1 at iia.org (Michael G. Potter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Were Templars clean shaven or bearded?
Date: 2 Nov 1994 22:28:03 GMT

Dan Agle (dagle at primenet.com) wrote:
: I've been debating this with a friend of mine.  He said that Templar's had 
: some rule about shaving and so they wore beards.  I say they shaved, 
: especially when in the Holy Lands (hot under them helms if for no other 
: reason).

: Any thoughts?

: Dan A.

     Templars did not shave.  It was one of their rules.  I imagine that 
they would've trimmed their beards if they got in the way of their 
fighting, but they were pretty unkept in general.  They gained a great 
deal of respect from their Arab foes because they were bearded as that 
was a sign of manhood in Arab culture.

Sir Myrdin the Just - East (my persona is a Templar)


From: vader at meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Were Templars clean shaven or bearded?
Date: 7 Nov 94 23:16:35
Organization: Indiana Jones University

>Templars did not shave.  It was one of their rules.

I have also read this. However, here is what the Templar Rule
has to say (Curzon: The Rule of the Templars):

"And they will at times sleep dressed in shirt and breeches
and shoes and belts, and where they sleep shall be lit until
morning. And the Draper should ensure that the brothers are
so well tonsured that they may be examined from the front and
from behind; and we command you to firmly adhere to this same
conduct with respect to beards and moustaches, so that no
excess may be noted on their bodies." (21)

I have found no reference to beards being compulsory. But there
may be one, and I may have missed it.

William de Corbie


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: rwilley at eecs.wsu.edu (Ronald Willey - EECS (CPTS350))
Subject: Re: Were Templars clean shaven or bearded?
Organization: School of EECS, Washington State University
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 00:16:03 GMT

 (2LT Aryeh JS Nusbacher) writes:
|>  Dan Agle (dagle at primenet.com) wrote:
|> > I've been debating this with a friend of mine.  He said that Templars had 
|> > some rule about shaving and so they wore beards.  I say they shaved, 
|> > especially when in the Holy Lands (hot under them helms if for no other 
|> > reason).
|> 
|> As somebody who frequents the region (and who has visited the extremely 
|> creepy water cistern which was once the Templar commandery in Acre), I can 
|> definitively say that a beard is much more comfortable there than razor 
|> burn.
|> --
|> Aryk Nusbacher
|> Post-Graduate War Studies Programme
|> Royal Military College of Canada

 My friend,  I have done a modirate amount of research on the Templars
and all of my information points to the fact that they did wear beards
at all times.  As to their reasons at the beginning or later for it, I
don't really know.  Does anyone know if the Hospitilers had something
simular to this?  If so, why or why not.


From: 00eenepsa at bsuvc.bsu.edu (SEASICK, BUT STILL DOCKED)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Were Templars clean shaven or bearded?
Date: 7 Nov 94 11:30:41 -0500
Organization: Ball State University

dagle at primenet.com (Dan Agle) writes:
> I've been debating this with a friend of mine.  He said that Templar's had 
> some rule about shaving and so they wore beards.  I say they shaved, 
> especially when in the Holy Lands (hot under them helms if for no other 
> reason).
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Dan A.

The Templars were bearded, all of my sources said one of the reasons they
were mistrusted (among others) is that they sported shaggy, full beards.
This was VERY unfashionable, as the current rage was cleanshaveness (sp?)
One book whose name escapes me (I thinkit's like "The Piebald Standard"
or somesuch nonsense)  says this expressly.

			'Cause my boss is a Templar
				Gwenfrewi ferch Cadfael of Caernarfon   :)> 


From: paximus at aol.com (PAXIMUS)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: shaving
Date: 20 Aug 1997 00:35:43 GMT

Deloris Booker wrote:
>But I remember reading somewhere that Turkish women shaved all their
pubic hair off, and then dyed the area with henna to amuse their
husbands.<<

I don't know about the Henna part but the shaving is very true for Turkish
women of the Harems. There is a fantastic book called "Harems" (cant
remember the author right now) that gives recipes for the process of
removing the hair.

In the book the main reason given is cleanliness and that having an
unshaven body is just dirty and socially unacceptable.

By the way the author of whose name I will find, also wrote a book called"
Taking the waters" about the history of Bathing also a great book.

Don Giulio d'Medici
G.M. Cavalieri Dell"Ordine de Santo Stefano


From: "james rich" <7152 at cableone.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: 14thC shaving kit?
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 08:32:31 -0600

"Bob Hurley" <bhurley412 at chartertn.net> wrote
> Has anyone discovered any detail on the subject? It would be a nice
> finishing touch to have *everything* possible period in camp, even
> personals as far as possible.

There will probably be responses by others more knowledgeable than I, but I
seem to recall reading *somewhere* that in some places it was the practice
to rub the face with a pumice stone in lieu of a razor.  Also most nobility
who were clean shaven were shaved by a servant

AElfwenna


From: ulftonn at aol.com (Ulftonn)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: 18 Feb 2001 07:06:24 GMT
Subject: Re: 14thC shaving kit?

>> There will probably be responses by others more knowledgeable than I, but I
>> seem to recall reading *somewhere* that in some places it was the practice
>> to rub the face with a pumice stone in lieu of a razor.
>
>Sheesh, just when you thought razor burn was bad...I guess that explains why
>women did not shave their legs ;-)
>
>>  Also most nobility who were clean shaven were shaved by a servant
>
>Well, you can substitute many of the things we do for the shaving portion of
>that sentence...
>
>Malachias

Well part of a full Roman bath was a visit to the delaptoria (having your
face/body hair pulled by tweaser).....

Ulftonn


From: bronwynmgn at aol.comnospam (Bronwynmgn)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: 18 Feb 2001 14:15:38 GMT
Subject: Re: 14thC shaving kit?

"james rich" <7152 at cableone.net> writes:
>I seem to recall reading *somewhere* that in some places it was the practice
>to rub the face with a pumice stone in lieu of a razor.

My husband was told this as well.  A friend who is into collecting rocks got
him a piece of pumice stone to try, but it did not seem to be terribly
effective.  Now my husband does have an extremely heavy beard, and that may
have made the process more difficult, but unless we had the wrong sort of
pumice it did not seem as if it would be an efficient method of shaving.

Brangwayna Morgan


From: Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue at thibault.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: 14thC shaving kit?
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 13:01:26 -0500

> have made the process more difficult, but unless we had the wrong sort of
> pumice it did not seem as if it would be an efficient method of shaving.

Some specimins are very closely-grained, looking much like limestone or
similar, but some are open, like a very open-celled sponge or swiss
cheese made almost entirely of holes, which would make sharp edges at
the margin of every bubble where it was sliced into a piece you could
hold in your hand.  Thus, I imagine the very bubbly sort would be more
effective than the non-bubble sort.  The non-bubble is the sort they
sell for foot smoothing.

Could you describe the sort of pumice you have?
--
Cynthia du Pr_ Argent


From: chimericalgirl at home.com (StrangeGirl)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: 14thC shaving kit?
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 20:02:06 GMT

Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue at thibault.org> shouted over the general babble
in a vain attempt to be heard:

>Some specimins are very closely-grained, looking much like limestone or
>similar, but some are open, like a very open-celled sponge or swiss
>cheese made almost entirely of holes, which would make sharp edges at
>the margin of every bubble where it was sliced into a piece you could
>hold in your hand.  Thus, I imagine the very bubbly sort would be more
>effective than the non-bubble sort.  The non-bubble is the sort they
>sell for foot smoothing.

I have actually found a chunk of the bubbly sort sold for
foot-smoothing, but it *was* unusual. Most are the more solid-looking
stone.

Anyhow, I tried it for an experiment in shaving my legs, since I had
read about this being used for that purpose. It seemed inffective- I
ended up just scraping the heck out of my shins- until I tried doing a
'roman bath'.

I revised my technique by soaking for a long period of time in hot
water and oiling my skin, then scraping with a 'strigil' made from a
convenient coolwhip lid. THEN I tried the holey pumice, and some hair
did come off, with less scraping of my tender skin. I think that
freshly steamed and oiled skin is necessary to make this work at all.

It was interesting, but very time-consuming, and mostly seems to work
by wearing off the hair, so that when it grows it is still tapered.

Not something I would do every week for the sake of vanity.

Also, I seem to recall that Roman men were shaved using razors, by
professional barbers? Is this incorrect?

Margery La A


From: "Ken Koll aka Lord Valdis of Gotland" <lvaldis at mail.cvn.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: 14thC shaving kit?
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 01:00:50 -0500

Just returned the book to the library with an 12th C or around there northman
razar that was a piece of metal about 4 inches long by two across and 1/8
inch thick.  The handle was thin and wrapped so that it fit into your hand
comfortably.  The book title was Northman, it looked like a Time Life book
but it wasn't.  It was copywritten in the 70's.  Could find it again if you
need it.

Pumice...face...ouch.  Having been given pumice directly from the fire god
of Mt. St. Helens as a young boy, the only thing we used it for was to wear
away calauses.  This was when it was dry.  We did use it periodically to
clean greasy hands with it wet and being used like a lufa sponge, still not
soft, but not as rough either.  If you try it on your face, make sure it is
wet.  The cutting surface of the pumice would be the thousand of miniature
little air bubbles that are exposed so that you have a 90 degree or so angle
that would provide a cutting surface....will have to try it.  Remember, keep
it wet.

Lord Valdis
who prefers the viking razor to pumice.

<the end>
Edited by Mark S. Harris	shaving-msg	3