Title: smoking-msg
Subject: Medieval and Renn. smoking of tobacco and other plants.
Author: Edited by Mark S. Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: medieval, tobacco, smoking, pipes, hemp

smoking-msg - 1/28/08

Period smoking of tobacco and other plants.

NOTE: See also the files: herbs-msg, p-herbals-msg, hemp-msg, perfumes-msg,  aphrodisiacs-msg, woad-msg, seeds-msg.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: greg at bronze.lcs.mit.edu (Greg Rose)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Smoking at events
Date: 13 Nov 1994 23:41:16 -0500
Organization: Guest of MIT AI and LCS labs

Hi, Angharad ver' Rhuawn here, feeling silly.

Aleksandr the Traveller says,
>  Actually, those of us from early period who come from points east or have 
>travelled as I have should be smoking substances other than tobacco - hmm, 
>wonder of an educational organization can get the same kind of exemption 
>from certain dracconian laws granted religious organizations like the Native 
>American Church?
>
>   "But officer, I was just giving a class on the historic growing of hemp 
>and the use of its various components during the Middle Ages. How can one 
>truely teach such a subject without, uh, inhaling ...."

Actually, in the Middle East, virtually every medical text from period
describes treatments that involve smoking herbs wrapped in silk or paper
(the pictures look remarkably like cigarettes).  The most common substance
in them, I believe, will get you in rather more trouble than hemp.

Comes from poppies.

Now, if you want a well documented use for hemp in period, try Plotina's
recipe for hemp soup.

-- Angharad/Terry

From: Jean-Baptiste joule <jb-joule at worldnet.fr>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: smoking in period, was hemp
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:00:40 +0100
Organization: SCT / Worldnet - Internet Provider & Information Exchange - Paris, France

Dick Eney wrote:

I once got to smoke a herb called "Tussilinge" the person who let me
smoke it says the Romans smoke it. and this person has done a master's
thesis in history about herbal uses in the Antiquity.

Personnally I found it pleasant to smoke, not irritating to the lungs. I
've got to say  I can't stand the smell of tobacco the worse being "so
called" Light cigarettes,, I'd rather have pure Pot which I find
pleasant and rather harmless if used only on occasions, than tobacco
which I can't even swallow : it hurts my throat and brings me tears, 
(unless it's real nice havana which just gets me HIGH). 

If romans smoke Tussilinge, then maybe some people in medieval times may
smoke it, but not in public since we don't see it in period pictures...

Jran-Baptiste de Foix

Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 10:36:56 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - tobacco

stefan at texas.net writes:
<< I don't have any info on tobacco, >>

Sir Walter Raleigh popularized tobacco smoking in the Elizabethan era. Before
the discovery of the New World, indeed throughout history, until the first
third of this century, the most common smoking herbs were cannabis in the
form of hashish and opium.

Early tobacco smokers used a pipe exclusively.

Ras

Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:38:20 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - tobacco

At 5:02 AM -0800 1/18/99, Bonita Plunk wrote:
>I have seen many pictures of pipes that were used in Middle-Eastern
>countries from the 10th century forward. By this I mean personal pipes
>as we think of them today, not just the Hooka.  Did they use the
>Tobacco/ dried fruit mixes that are commonly used today, or something
>else?

Tobacco is New World so they didn't use that. :-) They used, as I indicated
in an ealier post, hashish and opium. Alcohol is forbidden by the Quran but
herbs are not. :-)

Ras

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:14:41 -0500
From: "Gaylin Walli" <gwalli at infoengine.com>
Subject: SC - Re: HERB - Tobacco and other Smoking Herbs

At 11:50 AM -0500 1/19/99, Christine A Seelye-King wrote:
>Ok, here's a question for the Herb List, anyone heard of "Tussilinge"?

Which was in response to Jran-Baptiste de Foix's SCA-Cooks comment:
>> I once got to smoke a herb called "Tussilinge" the person who let me
>> smoke it says the Romans smoke it. and this person has done a
>>master's thesis in history about herbal uses in the Antiquity.

Just on a whim, I've looked up some of the etymology of "tussilinge."
No web search results in any more than the Floreligium
commentary on it.

Based on the middle english word "tussillen" and the "linge" of
the name, it could be, on my undereducated guess, Heather or
Calluna vulgaris. Looking up the words "touse," "ling," and
"tussillen" and perhaps "zirzuson" in a real dictionary might
yield better results.

I cannot, however, find any information in my work library that
suggests that the Heather plant was smoked, only that it is an Old
World plant. I'll double-check in Gerard if I can find it when
I go home tonight, but it could just be a dead end. If you're
interested in looking it up yourself, try also looking for "hather"
which was a more common spelling in period (AFAIR) or under
"Eurasian heath." You may want to look under grasses if you have
a choice.

Keep in mind that I'm taking a big WAG on this. I have no idea what
tussilinge is. I'm just curious if I can find any references to
it in my book collection and thought I'd share where I'm going
to look. Isn't the german word for "heather" "heide?"

Don't you just love a good puzzle?

Jasmine de Cordoba, Midrealm
jasmine at infoengine.com or gwalli at infoengine.com

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:08:35 -0500
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: Re: SC - Re: HERB - Tobacco and other Smoking Herbs

Just off the top of my head, might this plant be Tussilago farfara, aka
Coltsfoot (or Coughwort)?

Gerard says of this plant:
"The fume of the dried leaues taken through a funnell or tunnell, burned
vpon coles, effectually helpeth those that are troubled with the shortnesse
of breath, and fetch their winde thicke and often, and breaketh without
perill the impostumes of the brest."

Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:18:28 -0500
From: "Gaylin Walli" <gwalli at infoengine.com>
Subject: SC - Re: HERB - Tobacco and other Smoking Herbs

Lord Stefan li Rous wrote on the SCA-Cooks list:
>Thank you for this input. I will add it to the smoking-msg file in
>the Florilegium. Please let me know if you find out anything more.

I did some serious looking into Calluna vulgaris (Heather) and
could find no reference to its use in smoking or lung soothing other
than the reference I found in the etymology of the name parts for
"Tussilinge." The dictionaries I found this in were online and
the one on my desk which says "Merriam Webster's Collegiate
Dictionary 10th Edition." It would be interesting to know what
the OED says (someday I'll be able to get that CD-ROM, darn it
all) but I have been unable to look in a copy of said tome.

I did look up a number of different references to Mountain Coltsfoot
on the suggestion and commentary of responses to the smoking
question. I traced the name "Coltsfoot" in its various forms through
the documentation I have at home and in our meager public library
and I think that the comments saying that Tussilinge is Coltsfoot (or
Bullsfoot, Horsefoot, Farfugium, Bechium and any number of others)
are correct.

Dioscordies, Doedens, Pliny, and a number of other pre-period
and period authors all seem to agree. Maude Grieve's "Herbal," while
OOP, goes has an excellent summary of the details for these authors.
She writes:

  The smoking of the leaves for a cough has the recommendation
  of Dioscorides, Galen, Pliny, Boyle, and other great authorities,
  both ancient and modern, Linnaeus stating that the Swedes of
  his time smoked it for that purpose. Pliny recommended the
  use of both roots and leaves. The leaves are the basis of
  the British Herb Tobacco, in which Coltsfoot predominates,
  the other ingredients being Buckbean, Eyebright, Betony,
  Rosemary, Thyme, Lavender, and Chamomile flowers. This relieves
  asthma and also the difficult breathing of old bronchitis.
  Those suffering from asthma, catarrh and other lung troubles
  derive much benefit from smoking this Herbal Tobacco, the use
  of which does not entail any of the injurious effects of
  ordinary tobacco. (from the online copy at www.botanical.com)

In the interest of expanding people's minds, let me give you another
tidbit I found about the plant. There's been a lot of information
on ergot and poisoning from food and crops posted recently on SCA-
Cooks. According to John Gerard in his "Herbal or General History of
Plants," not only is Coltsfoot excellent smoked to treat shortness
of breath (there's a certain contradiction there in my mind) but also:

   The green leaus of Fole-foot pound with hony, do cure and
   heale the hot inflammation called Saint Anthonies fire, and
   all other inflammations. (pg, Yyy, 1633 edition)

Jasmine

Iasmine Isabella Maria Magdelena de Cordoba, Midrealm
jasmine at infoengine.com or gwalli at infoengine.com

Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:13:19 -0500
From: snowfire at mail.snet.net
Subject: Re: SC - Re: HERB - Tobacco and other Smoking Herbs

- -Poster: Jean Holtom <Snowfire at mail.snet.net>
>I did look up a number of different references to Mountain Coltsfoot
>on the suggestion and commentary of responses to the smoking
>question. I traced the name "Coltsfoot" in its various forms through
>the documentation I have at home and in our meager public library
>and I think that the comments saying that Tussilinge is Coltsfoot (or
>Bullsfoot, Horsefoot, Farfugium, Bechium and any number of others)
>are correct.

>  The smoking of the leaves for a cough has the recommendation
>  of Dioscorides, Galen, Pliny, Boyle, and other great authorities,
>  both ancient and modern, Linnaeus stating that the Swedes of
>  his time smoked it for that purpose. Pliny recommended the
>  use of both roots and leaves. The leaves are the basis of
>  the British Herb Tobacco, in which Coltsfoot predominates,
>  the other ingredients being Buckbean, Eyebright, Betony,
>  Rosemary, Thyme, Lavender, and Chamomile flowers. This relieves
>  asthma and also the difficult breathing of old bronchitis.
>  Those suffering from asthma, catarrh and other lung troubles
>  derive much benefit from smoking this Herbal Tobacco, the use
>  of which does not entail any of the injurious effects of
>  ordinary tobacco. (from the online copy at www.botanical.com)

My grandfather used to have us inhale the smoke of Coltsfoot leaves if we had
sinus problems or congestion.  He'd dry the leaves by hanging them up in
bunches, then he'd set fire to the leaves in a bowl and we'd have to lean
over the bowl and inhale deeply.  I can't say I remember it working very
well although I remember the smoke making my eyes burn.

He also said that he'd seen Coltsfoot as an ingredient in store-bought
throat lozenges.  I've never seen it included anywhere myself.

Elysant

Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:03:01 -0000
From: Christina Nevin <cnevin at caci.co.uk>
Subject: SC - Re: HERB - Tobacco and other Smoking Herbs

Jasmine wrote
                "Those suffering from asthma, catarrh and other lung
troubles derive much benefit from smoking this <Coltsfoot> Herbal Tobacco,
the use of which does not entail any of the injurious effects of ordinary
tobacco."  (from the online copy at www.botanical.com) <quote from M.Grieves
1931 "Herbal">

Mmm, but drinking large quantities of the tea will cause cancer of the
liver. IIRC medical authorities now have similar doubts about the long term
effects of smoking it also.

Lucretzia
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lady Lucrezia-Isabella di Freccia   |  mka Tina Nevin
Thamesreach Shire, The Isles, Drachenwald | London, UK

Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 08:52:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jenne Heise <jenne at tulgey.browser.net>
Subject: Re: SC - period potsmoking and other uses of hemp--

> --Herodotus, in his "History of the Persian Wars", describes how the
> Scythians got high by inhaling the smoke of cannabis.  They did not use
> pipes, instead they would gather in a closed tent and throw leave,
> flowers, and seeds onto burning coals.--

Might want to add that Galen talks about how inhaling the smoke of burning
hemp loosens the muscles, the sinews, and 'what flows'.

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise	      jenne at tulgey.browser.net

From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 08:30:09 -0500 (EST)
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: Chocolate+Muslim (was Re: [Sca-cooks] Probably OOP but just
 wondering.)

> Hashhish is generally prohibited as an intoxicant, although the Ishmailis
> tended to ignore that little fact.  Coffee does not come into general use
> until 1450 and only becomes widespread in the 16th Century.
> Bear

There's an interesting book called _Herb: Hashish Versus Medieval Muslim
Society_ by Franz Rosenthal, (Brill Academic Publishers, 1971) on the
whole issue in Medieval Muslim society. (Found it on a Barnes & Noble
search and was interested enough to ILL it...)

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa

Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 21:55:50 -0400
From: Patrick Levesque <petruvoda at videotron.ca>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Porridge, tobacco
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org, "Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>"	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

In that order, and more or less related topics, too :-)

<snip. See porridges-msg  -Stefan>

BTW, there is also an interesting discussion in the same source on
'Nicotiane' (tobacco) giving a bunch of alleged medecinal uses, as well as
various modes of consumption (including smoking, of course) and instructions
on growing your own little crop of poison :-)) (somewhat out of topic, but
fascinating nonetheless)

Petru

Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:20:03 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] sugar and rice in Iberia
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

>  so dating these things to that year is
> similar to linking tobacco in Europe to 1492

1493.  IIRC (from the Diario), Columbus brought tobacco back on the first
voyage which ended early in 1493.  Because we have a detailed account, we
can fix a date for the initial arrival of tobacco in Europe.  Of course, we
have no idea what they did with the sample.

Bear

<the end>

Mark S. Harris	smoking-msg	Page  of