Title: herbs-msg
Subject: Info. on period herbs.
Author: Edited by Mark S. Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: medieval, herb, spice, garden, plant

herbs-msg - 10/22/14

Herbs used in period and how they were used. Modern sources.

NOTE: See also the files: spices-msg, herbs-cooking-msg, p-herbals-msg, herb-uses-msg, Herbs-Sm-Grdn-art, seeds-msg, lavender-msg, herb-mixes-msg, Basic-Herbs-art.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

From: evans at lvipl.csc.ti.com ("Eleanor J. Evans  at  462-5330")
Date: 11 Dec 89 18:13:27 GMT
Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Pennyroyal is an effective flea repellent - I assume it would work on
ticks and mites, as well.

Eleanor MacNaughton
evans at lvipl.ti.com

From: EPSTEIN%KSUVM.BITNET at MITVMA.MIT.EDU (Emily Epstein)
Date: 10 Aug 90 21:38:00 GMT
Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

I checked a few references to reply to Owain of Shrewsbury's query of August
4:

>Is the herb Lemonbalm period?  I wish to use some instead of mint in
>sekanjabin just to see what it tastes like.  While I KNOW the use of it in
>sekanjabin isn't period (most likely) I simply want to try it for personal
>use. I've got access to lemonbalm (sp?) as it's growing in my backyard. Is it
>originally European or is it strictly a north american herb.

Milord, lemon balm (Melissa officinalis) is indeed of old-world origin, being
a Mediterranean native. It was grown by the ancient Greeks and Romans, and
was well known in south central Europe throughout period, under the names
Melisophyllon (Greek) or Apiastrum (Latin).

I have read (I forget where) that it was brought to Britain by the Romans, but
_Sturtevant's Edible Plants of the World_ (Dover, 1972, p.359-60) says it
didn't arrive in England until 1573, which seems awfully late. According to
Malcolm Stuart (_Encyclopedia of Herbs & Herbalism_, Crescent, 1987, p. 222)
it was used exclusively as a bee plant until the 15th century, when it was
used by the Arabs to treat depression, ans as a tonic. Carol Ann Rinzler (_The
Complete Book of Herbs, Spices & Condiments_, Facts on File, 1990, p.23-24)
places its medicinal and culinary use as early as 1000. Oh well, pick your
expert and take your chances. :-)

I hope you find the above useful. Yours sounds like a worthy experiment, and
I'd be interested to hear the results. Frankly, the omnipresent tea and
lemonade at feast get tiresome. In Calontir of late, ginger water, orange
water and sekanjubin (sp?) have been served with some success, but I'm
always looking for new alternatives.

Yours in service,

                         <=========>
Alix Mont de fer          |=======|
    (Emily Epstein)       |* * * *|
Shire of Spinning Winds    =====/
    (Manhattan, KS)           /
                             |||
epstein at ksuvm.ksu.edu         |
                             |||
                            /___

From: billmc at microsoft.UUCP (Bill MCJOHN)
Date: 21 Feb 91 17:43:00 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp., Redmond WA

CANNING at intellicorp.COM (Janet Canning) writes:
> It is spring and I would like to start a garden project.  I am lookin into
> a Medieval/Renaissance herbal garden and I'm blocked by mundane problems.
> 
> 2-mundane book titles that specialize in Medieval/Ren gardens, history etc.

You may wish to consult _Plants from the Past_, by David Stuart and 
James Sutherland (Penguin Books, 1987).  The authors are interested 
in restoring and recreating gardens from various periods.  The book
includes a short chapter describing the principle characteristics
of gardens of various times, following the changing fashions from
the late middle ages through the nineteenth century.  The bulk of 
the book is discussion of various genera (arranged alphabetically) 
and their history in garden use.  It is principally aimed at the
English flower garden, but herbs and continental references show up,
too.

The authors also give a list of primary sources (e.g. John Gerard's 
_Herball_ of 1597) and refer to these sources frequently in the 
main text.  Finally, there is a short list of Further Reading.

All in all, this is a charming and informative book.

Another approach would be to simply read period writings (especially
recipes) looking for references to common plants.  I doubt that the 
species forms of our common herbs (thymus vulgaris, salvia officinalis, 
rosmarinus officinalis, lavandula angustifolia, nepeta cataria, the
various alliums) have changed much since the middle ages.  Herbs 
simply haven't been subjected to the same intense breeding as flowers.

Roses, on the other hand...

I would certainly be interested in the results of your search.
Good luck!

Bill McJohn
billmc at microsoft

From: jane at STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM (Jane Beckman)
Date: 1 Nov 91 23:42:01 GMT

Gillyflower is also called "clove gillyflower."  Generally, it's Dianthus 
caryophyllus---clove carnation.  For flavoring purposes, it's generally a 
strongly spicy carnation.  In common vernacular, it can also refer to the 
sweet-scented stock.

Turnsole or giresole is the "pot marigold," the calendula.  "Marigold 
observes the sun/More than my subjects me have done." --Shakespeare
The petals are used for flavoring.  And very tasty with meat, I might add.

  -Jilara of Carrowlea  [jane at swdc.stratus.com]

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: hwt at bcarh11a.bnr.ca (Henry Troup)
Subject: Rhubarb
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1993 20:01:07 GMT

odlin at reed.edu (Iain Odlin) writes:
|>   PS:  Was rhubarb eaten in period (was it *known* in period)?  It's another
|>   one of those fun plants that has poisonous leaves.

Only as a laxative, in my reading. It's in most of the herbals.

Rhubarb needs *lots* of sugar for most people's taste. Sugar was very
expensive.
-- 
Henry Troup - H.Troup at BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ritchiek at sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Subject: Re: Rhubarb
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 14:32:32 GMT

	From what I found when documenting my rhubarb wine.  rhubarb
was used mainly as a medicinal herb in period and was not eaten as we
do now in pies, crisps and jellies until the early nineteenth century.
Alcoholic beverages using rhubarb as a flavoring or as the vegetable of 
fermentation were known in period.  See Gerard's herbal.
-Isabeau Pferdebandiger, Barony of Rivenstar, Middle

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ritchiek at sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Subject: Re: Rhubarb's taste
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1993 14:40:01 GMT

	In period Rhubarb was not eaten as it is now it was considered
a medicinal herb.  People often thought the whole plant was poisonous because
the leaves are. and some persons prone to gout cannot eat the stalk either 
because of the high oxalic acid content.  Rhubarb did not come into real use
until the late eighteenth, early nineteenth century.  Prior to that it was
used as a flavoring in alcoholic beverages, and medicinally as a laxative
and purifier.
-Isabeau Pferdebandiger, Barony of Rivenstar, Middle

From: JLC at vax2.utulsa.EDU (JENNIFER CARLSON)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Kibbutzing (was Skirrets)
Date: 24 Nov 1993 11:28:59 -0500

Actually, salsify is both an Old World and New World plant.  _Tragopogon
porrifolius_, also called 'goat's beard', is indigenous to continental Europe
and the British isles.  'Meadow salsify', _Tragopogon pratensis_ is the North
American version.  

Yours in service,

Dunstana Talana the Violet
Northkeep, Ansteorra
Jennifer Carlson
Tulsa, Oklahoma
JLC at vax2.utulsa.edu

From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period brewing and herbs...
Date: 25 Nov 93 13:14:42
Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.

Alecost was used for brewing, I've got some growing in my back garden,
but sadly I haven't any recipes. So if anyone knows what part it did
play let me know. I suspect it was used like hops are now.

The fruit of the service tree was used to make beer in england, and
pubs serving ale made from service fruit were called chequer pubs
because of the trees chequered bark. You can still find old pubs
called chequers which probably started out serving ale from the
service tree.
I have no idea if it had any medicinal properties, but I would
guess its an old beverage because service trees won't seed in our
currently cold climate, so the custom might date to when the country
was warmer a millenium ago? Nowadays the tree will grow from seed in
France but is infertile here where, though it can extend by suckers
from the root system.

When the queen got into the supers of my beehives she layed brood all
over the honey and the result was a bitter tasting honey. In medieval
beekeeping where the queen was not restricted in her movements about
the colony honey flavoured with bitter brood food would be common. We
used the honey to brew a spicy metheglin and it tasted quite good,
perhaps some of the metheglin recipes which use herbs or spices in
mead were a result of brewers making best use of their worst honey?
I suppose spices were quite expensive whereas herbs could be home
grown, so disguising a bad taste might be a more likely use for herbs
than spices?

Jennifer
Vanaheim vikings

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: marian at world.std.com (marian walke)
Subject: Re: Pre-1600 flower dishes - sources for flowers
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 12:41:57 GMT

Have you tried your local health food/organic food stores?

Some of them sell dried flower parts (rose petals, rose hips, elder 
flowers, dried violets, etc) for making herbal teas.  Also available in 
bulk from herb companies that do mail order - Frontier, Penn Herb, etc.

While rather expensive (compared with roadside gathering the stuff), you 
have a good chance the items were meant for human consumption.

--Marian of Edwinstowe, Carolingia, EK
  marian at world.std.com 

From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: woad
Summary: wear to get it- good quality & good price
Date: Wed, 04 May 94 20:01:19 EDT

	Respected friends:
	Baroness Meghan ni Leine, when not busy being informative and
wonderful, also sells processed, purified, ready-for-use powdered Woad.
contact her C/O Linda Anfuso, Wilton, NH, 03082
	By the way- the blue part of the woad is not and never was any
sort of hallucinogen. The raw sap crushed from fresh woad leaves
_sometimes_ causes surface skin numbness, slight dizziness, and (in
certain bloodlines) a vague impression of less danger or more confidence.
No hallucinations- sorry about that, but Picts wearing woad charged
Romans wearing armor because they were like that, not because they were
'orf ther 'eads:->.
	It also requires you have one of the right half-dozen out of several 
hundred subspecies/varieties of Woad plant to start with. In other words,
not much chance. And since any form of heating seems to destroy the whatever-
it-is completely, feel free to find something more likely to worry about.
	Like Black Widows in the privy.
				Honour/Alizaunde

From: kkeeler at unlinfo.unl.edu (kathleen keeler)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: juniper
Date: 10 Jan 1995 15:53:27 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	

Alban listed juniper, juniper seeds, juniper berries, questionable.  I
wrote an article in Calontir's cooking guild newletter on juniper some
years ago.  This is mostly from memory, ask if you want the sources- 

 "Juniper" _Juniperus communis_ common juniper, is a 
European tree/shrub.  As noted previously, the seeds are used to make 
gin.  The seeds were eaten--used as a flavoring--in Europe in the 
Middle Ages.  It was also a medicinal herb (berries and leaves). 
[Botanical detail: The berries are actually small fleshy 
(seed-containing, pistilate) cones, this being a Gymnosperm].
It is discouraged as a food and medicinal herb 
today because it is hard on the kidneys--to be avoided by preganant 
women and anyone with kidney problems.  The USDA concluded there are 
safer plants with the same medicinal effects.  In cooking, you'd use 
only a few berries--STRONG flavor--so chances of harm low, but one 
might not want to serve it to a feast.

   _J. communis_ is planted all over the US, and can be gathered from 
plantings, or purchased.  My copy of Gray's Manual of Botany suggests 
it has naturalized in the Eastern US, here in Nebraska we only have it
where its planted.

   The US has several native Junipers, "cedars" in our vernacular.  
I considered substituting them ('creative anachronism').
They differ from each other and from _J. communis_.  For example, 
eastern red cedar _J. virginiana_ ranges from the Atlantic to nearly 
the Rocky Mountains.  Since reports of Native Americans eating it are 
few, but they used it medicinally, I conclude its generally too strong
for food.  The contrast is Rocky Mountain red cedar, _J. scopulorum_
which was widely used by tribes as a flavoring.  I think that could be 
used to replace "juniper" in a Period recipe.   All three have 
wonderfully similar medicinal uses, for example to make a vapor to be 
inhaled for congestion as in a cold.

   My favorite Medieval tale of juniper, is that it would protect your 
house from witches:  hang a branch over the door, the witch has to 
count all the needles correctly to come in (so if you use a big 
branch, you should be safe)

copy or the references.

Agnes deLanvallei

**Juniper berries are hot in the third degree, and dry but in the 
first, being a most admirable counter-poison...Culpeper**

From: callred at carbon.cudenver.edu (Curtis L. Allred)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: juniper
Date: 10 Jan 1995 11:27:32 -0700
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

Dearest Gentles, Greetings!

kathleen keeler (kkeeler at unlinfo.unl.edu) wrote:

             <article cut, portion included below>

	A most enriching article about Juniper!  One of my favorite
bushes/trees.  

: It is discouraged as a food and medicinal herb 
: today because it is hard on the kidneys--to be avoided by preganant 
: women and anyone with kidney problems.  
	
	This piece of advice is very helpful, as I have 
frequently eaten the fruit of the juniper on hikes in the outdoors, as
well as sharing it with others (I cannot think now if I have given some
to pregnant women--I hope not!).  The best way to eat it, I have found
is to select a female bush (there are male and female junipers, females
have berries, males don't), then find a nice, dark blue (the color of
brand-new Levis) berry.  Carefully hold it up to your teeth and 
nibble the outside peeling, which has an incredibly sweet, sharp
taste, well worth the trouble of trying to perform this feat of
oral dexterity.  You may eat the innards of the berry, but it is
not as tasty and has lots of seeds.  

	Juniper berries are full of things that are good for ya
(vitamins, body tonic, etc), and so are good for pepping you
up when you are tired on a hike.  They also give your breath a 
refreshing taste.  My experience is that junipers are MOST plentiful
out here in the Western US, where they grow very well in dry climates 
and poor soils.  There is nothing as beautiful as a 100 year-old 
female juniper tree out in the desert, providing shade and 
protection from blizzards to the desert creatures that also 
eat its berries.  A lot of people mistakenly know junipers as
cedars, but they are easily distinguished--cedars have fan-shaped 
foliage, junipers don't.  Most trees and bushes that are juniper/
cedar-like are indeed junipers, although they are mostly called 
cedars.  And, it is the lowly juniper bush that gives gin its
unique flavor.

	Anyway, just a postscript to the wonderful article preceding this
one.

	--Hugh Makpease, the mercenary, who smells of elderberries

From: kathy.duffy at buckys.com (Kathy Duffy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: period plants
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 03:59:00 GMT
Organization: *Bucky's BBS* (609)861-1131

B>> berries(?), juniper seeds(?), juniper(?), jyllowflowers (red)
 >>
 >> that enough? <grin> the ones with question marks i'm not sure
 >> about.

B>      Juniper (berries, seeds and leaves) can all be used to help mfg &
 >flavor the alcoholic spirit gin...........    Can't help with the others,
 >though........

Also found in many recipes such as pork roasts and helps add a gamey
flavor

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: destry at netcom.com (Fellwalker)
Subject: Re: Lets talk about herbs
Organization: Ask about rec.gardens.organic  :)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 23:48:14 GMT

David Salley (salley at niktow.canisius.edu) wrote:
: Mandrake are now known by the modern name, Mayapples.  They affect deer the

   Nope! _American_ Mandrake (Podophyllum peltatum), a common North
American plant, is the Mayapple.  _European_ Mandrake (Mandragora
officiarum) is the historic mandrake and has no relation to the Mayapple.
(Mayapple is, however, extemely poisonous...even handling it can poison
you.) My plant books advise _not_ growing it, but say that it requires 
partial shade and moist soil. 

--Max

From: "E.Preston III & Shelly K Walker" <wf3 at icok.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Medieval spices
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 19:57:15 -0600

two books to try:

A Medieval Herbal and A Medieval Flower Garden.
Publishers Chronicle Books of San Francisco,

I got the herb book through a local Herb Farm who stays on the look out
for me. She also has found natural dye books. I'd look at the herb
stores first.
Britta the Red..

From: norseman at voicenet.com (Chip W.)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Help with Herbs...
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 18:12:38 GMT

lttunes at aol.com (Lt Tunes) wrote:

>What is Sweetbriar and where would one obtain such an herb?
>Carlin the Blond of Eastwood

In all of my gardening and herb books (and I have a fair number), I
found only one reference, in Eyewitness Handbooks HERBS, by Lesley
Bremness.  Here's the quote:

"ROSA RUBIGINOSA (syn. Rose eglanteria)  The dense growth of the Sweet
Brier, Shakespeare's Eglantine, with apple-scented leaves is good as
an aromatic hedge plant."

Note the spelling of sweet brier vs sweetbriar.  However, I would
guess that specialty rose catalogs would be a good place to start your
search  (of course, I couldn't find my rose book - my house seems to
have swallowed it up).

Good Luck!
Linette de Gallardon

From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy M Renfrow)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Help with Herbs...
Date: 19 Dec 96 19:16:06 GMT

lttunes at aol.com (Lt Tunes) wrote:
> 
> What is Sweetbriar and where would one obtain such an herb?

Sweetbrier is Rosa rubiginosa L. (aka R. eglanteria Mill.), also called
Eglantine, Hip-rose, Hip-Brier.

Try Penn Herb 1-800-523-9971, or Aphrodesia.

Yours in haste,

C. Renfrow
renfrow at skylands.net
http://www.alcasoft.com/renfrow/

From: Jean-Baptiste joule <jb-joule at worldnet.fr>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Herbs and spice online
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 11:08:52 +0100
Organization: SCT / Worldnet - Internet Provider & Information Exchange - Paris, France

Gentle Ladies, Lords and damsels,
I found THAT while surfing the NET

http://www.herbsinfo.com/default.htm

Those people have herbs online and also provide some sort of information
about their uses.

I haven't done business with them yet, though.

From: jahb at Lehigh.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Herbs
Date: 23 Feb 1997 23:28:46 -0500

>Need info on medicinal herbs in the middle ages.  Please e-mail me at
>Nyfain at msn.com.  Any help would be appreciated, son is doing a
>science project and is 3 weeks behind, (the halfling will sleep with
>the pigs from now on if he doesn't bring up his grade).  Medieval
>uses and potions and cures, whatever anyone has to offer, will be
>greatley appreciated and may save a young boy from a shortened life
>span.
>
>Nyfain

Try consulting "Magic Herbs" by Rosetta Clarkson, or any reputable herb book.
Off the top of my head-- mint for stomach troubles. Rosemary was burned and
lavender strewed in sickrooms to clear the 'noxious fumes.' Also consult
Culpeper's Herbal.

Jennifer Heise,                             Net: jahb at lehigh.edu    \
Senior Specialist, Web Management, LUIR     Phone:(610)758-3072   / /
Lehigh University, 8A E. Packer Avenue, Bethlehem PA 18015        \

From: "Perkins" <lwperkins at snip.net>
Subject: Brother Cadfael's Herb Garden
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: 13 Apr 97 21:43:16 GMT

I was reading rec.gardens and ran across a book that might appeal to
Brother Cadfael fans--it's titled Brother Cadfael's Herb Garden.  If you go
here you can take a look at the cover.  Looks interesting, but not
cheap--it's a "coffee table" book.

http://british.books.american.prices.com/books/1650/1671midi.html

From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (Nancy Wederstrandt)
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:37:12 -0600
Subject: Re: SC - Carrots

Concerning wild carrots:  I think caution is somewhat advised.  Many of the
the wild relatives of the carrot are edible, but bear a very close look to
the more poisonous kin.  Lord Ras is correct in that be sure before you
eat.  Most of the poisonous relatives of the wild carrot are nasty
smelling, and usually have purplish blotches on the stalks.  Here in
Ansteorra, wild carrot, wild parsley and hemlock can grow near enough to
each other to be confusing.  Also here are vast quantities of wild onion,
which have a companion plant called crow bane that looks very similar.  The
key is the smell.  I was fortunate enough to mundanely worked with a man
who wild plant foraged and learned a great deal about them.(He used to be
Society Master of Sciences early one)  He often ate things that I
personally wouldn't but were edible.  We rapidly had three lists of
plants... inedible, edible and gwilym edible.  His name in the SCA was
Master Gwilym the Smith.

Clare RSJ

From: "leslie vaughn" <leslievaughn at msn.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 97 21:22:09 UT
Subject: RE: SC - any suggestions ??

Fennel is the "breath sweetener" of choice used in Italian feasts that I have 
documentation on.
Isabeau

From: "Philip W. Troy" <troy at asan.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:30:25 -0400
Subject: Re: SC - fennel as "breath sweetener

Mark Harris wrote:
> Isabeau said on Wed. April 16:
> >Fennel is the "breath sweetener" of choice used in Italian feasts that I have
> >documentation on.
> Interesting. Can you give more information? Which part of the fennel plant?
> Was it chewed on straight or mixed in something? Or perhaps steeped?
>   Stefan li Rous

I think the seeds would be the logical part. I've eaten both wild andcultivated fennel, and the only thing part that really seems to have that effect is the seeds, except perhaps for large quantities of the leaves.In India fennel seed is commonly eaten after a meal both as a breath freshener and to avoid flatulence. Sometimes plain seeds are eaten,sometimes they are sugared as a comfit, and sometimes they are mixed with other spices, either in sugared or unsugared form. The sugared ones look and taste like tiny Good-'n'-Plenty candy.Adamantius

From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt)
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 07:46:06 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: SC - fennel as "breath sweetener

I just put fennel into my garden and was rereading a section from an herbbook which stated that the stalks could be eaten aften a meal as a breath freshier.It might also be okay to candy them much like angelica stalks are candied and eaten as breath sweeteners. Normally the seeds are eaten.  People became very addicted to them  (I read a complaint somewhere about a woman who ate so many that she left a little trail of seeds everywhere.

Clare

From: "G. Sofsky" <dragons2 at algorithms.com>
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 10:37:50 -0400
Subject: SC - - Herb sources

I found these addresses in Sam Biser's Save Your Life Collection.  These
sources are for Pharmaceutical grade herbs but see no reason we can't use
them too.  I haven't received any catalogue's from them yet so I have no
idea on cost factor, what each one actually carries or how some of them
come.  There are a few others that are wholesalers and will only sell to
people with a business license.  If there are any of you out there and you
want those references, email me and I'll give you their 800 telephone
numbers.

Herbal Sources

American Botanical Pharmacy
Dr. Schulze's herbal formula
P.O. Box 3027
Santa Monica, CA  90408
phone  310-453-1987

Pacific Botanicals
Noted as being the best source for organic and wildcrafted bulk herbs. 
Wholesale, 1lb minimum, but will sell to Save-Your-Life readers.
4350 Fish Hatchery Road
Grants Pass, OR  97527
503-479-7777

Blessed Herbs
(their second choice for organic/wildcrafted herbs)
Barre Plains Road
Oakham, MA   01068
800-489-4372

Casaundra of the Wandering Dragons
dragons2 at algorithms.com

Date: 5 Aug 1997 08:39:19 -0700
From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - saffron substitute

I just got a beautiful book called "Brother Cadfael's Garden"  based on the
mystery novels with the 12th Century monastic main character.  It appears to
be very good at researching the herbs and such used in this series of novels
and cross referencing them against period sources.  So far it has one of the
most complete and accesible encyclopedias of herbs with pictures that I have
found.

- -brid

Date: 7 Aug 1997 08:34:56 -0700
From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Re: Re- SC - Advice, please!

and some more useless info from my herb library:
  saffron crocus- crocus sativus (I have seen bulbs for order in some flower
catalogues!)
  meadow saffron (common crocus?)- colchicum autumnale
  false saffron (safflower?)- carthamaus tinctoris

fennel- foeniculum vulgare
anise (aniseed, sweet cumin)-pimpinella anisum
  both were highly prized and used by the Romans.  Charlemagne in the 800's
had all the herbs in St. Gall's (anybody know where St. G's is?) monastery
planted on all of his royal estates- which spread both of these throughout
Europe.  He also apparently said something to the effect of "these are good
and useful", making them and their use popular.

woo woo! Go Charlemagne!
- -brid

Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 14:24:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt)
Subject: Re: Re- SC - Spices

Stefan said:
>And what do you mean by licorice sticks?

        I think he means licorice roots which are long thin roots you can
chew on.  Locally, you can get alot of these herbs from the Herb Bar on W.
Mary (It's down south for a change)  Also Whole Foods and the ever popular
Central Market.
You extract the flavoring by steeping or making an infusion.  If you'd like
to do infusions come to he Herbalist's Guild in December.  We're gearing up
to do Medicinal herbs in December so I can let you know.

Clare St. John

From: SiFiFem at aol.com
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 03:27:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Sources for Woad

Stefan-

Please add these people to your source list of period herbs, spices and those
hard to find historical feast items.  They also carry woad and henna  as used
for body tattoo and henna painting.  They have been doing SCA on the west
coast for 12 years.    Their store is :  Dragonmarsh - 3744 Main St .-
Riverside, Ca 92501
- Phone is (909) 276-1116.     Thanks

Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:55:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uduido at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - A herb/spices question. . .

<< Having just moved some of the same bottles of herbs, spices and extracts
 for the third time in two years I began to wonder if any of this stuff was
 still good.  What is the average shelf life for seasonings? >>

For herbs, the average shelf-life is about 6 mths to a year before the flavor
deteriorates substancially. Spices depend on how they've been stored and
whether they are whole spices or ground spices. If they are bug and mold
free, taste or smell. If they appear to still be strong then use them. For
sauces and extracts, I would advise the same. I have had a quart bottle of
Fish Sauce from Thailand on my shelf for 11 years. It's still good.
Worchestershire also has an indefinate shelf life. While hot sauce tends to
go rancid after a year or so.

 << How can you tell when its time to get rid of them?  >>

When they get bugs in them, mold, turn colors and/or smell taste wrong. :-)

Lord Ras

Date: 9 Sep 1997 15:03:49 -0700
From: "Marisa Herzog" <marisa_herzog at macmail.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Re: Fw- SC - A herb/spices question. . .

Spices last longer than herbs, especially if un-ground.  Both will last longer
if kept sealed air-tight and in a dark place. (Which makes all those pretty
spice racks with glass jars kinda a shame).  How long they last also depends
on how long they were in the store before you got them (random).  The only way
to know is to test them.  Taste them, smell them- when you find yourself
having to use "too much" of them in your regular cooking, it is time to get
new.  I have had dried parsley go terribly bland in a month, and tarragon last
for years.
- -brid
(wishing she didn't rent so she could invest in planting a serious kitchen
garden and always have relatively fresh herbs)

Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 14:19:56 -0400
From: Donna Kenton <donna at dabbler.com>
Subject: Re: SC - feverfew

DianaFiona at aol.com wrote:
> To drag this more or less back on topic---does anyone remember any
> mentions of feverfew in period herbals? I haven't checked for it
> specifically............
>
> Ldy Diana

My lady, Gerard (1597) lists it, although he calls it "featherfew."   I
have on "Early American Gardens" which documents that they are the same
thing.  It's listed as a "women's" herb, good for childbirth and other
female "complaints."  I only took a cursory glance through the "Newe
Iewell of Health" but didn't find it.  (I've got to try some of those
cough drops...)

Rosalinde (who would dearly love to have a back yard big enough to build
a Balneo Mariae)
- --
Rosalinde De Witte/Donna Kenton * donna at dabbler.com *

Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:25:18 -0400
From: Donna Kenton <donna at dabbler.com>
Subject: Re: SC - feverfew

marilyn traber wrote:
> Am with puzzlement, a balneo mariae is modernly called a bain marie,
> or in cooking a double boiler....?
>
> margali

Sort of, on a grand scale.  It's basically a brick "furnace" that they
used to distill herbs for medicine.  There's a lower chamber for the
fire, and above that, either water or sand (depending on what they were
processing) into which the pots would sit.  The vapors from the water
and herbs in the pot would rise, be caught, and condense, dripping into
another pot.

I have a horrible memory for what all the herbs were used for (have to
look them up), but I find the old techniques are absolutely fascinating.

Rosalinde
- --
Rosalinde De Witte/Donna Kenton * donna at dabbler.com *

Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:07:53 -0400
From: marilyn traber <margali at 99main.com>
Subject: Re: SC - feverfew

Donna Kenton wrote: Sort of, on a grand scale.  It's basically a brick
"furnace" that they

> used to distill herbs for medicine.  There's a lower chamber for the
> fire, and above that, either water or sand (depending on what they were
> processing) into which the pots would sit.  The vapors from the water
> and herbs in the pot would rise, be caught, and condense, dripping
> into another pot.

Why do you want to do it on such a grand scale? I find foor household
use the smaller sizes are more reaistic.

there is a messy but nifty way to extract the ones too delicate for
alcohol or water distillation, fat extraction.

start with several panes of glass, smear them with fat-they used lard in
period, i go for veggie shortening.
place the flower[lilac is one specific, also mimosa] in the fat.
insert the pane into a slot in a closed box or cupboard. let rest
overnight.
the next am, pluck out the blossoms with tweezers[or your fingers if you
dont mind getting messy hands]
place more blossoms in the fat, repeat until the fat has a strong odor
of the flower you are extracting.
scrape the fat off, mix as per unguent directions with soft beeswax.

this takes care of those herbs and blossoms that are too delicate for
heating. I have read specifically used with lilac and mimosa, would work
with just about anything. If you are careful, you drop the fat in
alcohol which will gently float the essential oils on the surface where
youd skim them off and let the alcohol evaporate off, but it works
really well using the unguent method. I suppose if you wanted hand or
lip balm you could also use cocoa butter.

margali

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:11:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Uduido at aol.com
Subject: SC - Bay-references

The folllowing references on the bay leaf question were provided by the
gracious kindness of Viscountess Judith.

MARKHAM> English Huswif, part 1, pg. 219. As a scrub (Bay Oil)

Not found in Forme of Curye.

Not found in Le Manegier.

ALEXANDER NEKKHAM"S (sp?) Travelling Diaries > Daily Life in the 12th
Century. May contain references to bay as a medicinal herb or more. Available
at any good reference library.

Works of Urban Tigner (sp?) may or may not contain bay laurel references.

There you go. That is all we have so far. We are still researching this
subject. Will post further details and comments as they become available.

Lord Ras

Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 20:57:53 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Bay-references

Uduido at aol.com wrote:
> The folllowing references on the bay leaf question were provided by the
> gracious kindness of Viscountess Judith.
> 
> MARKHAM> English Huswif, part 1, pg. 219. As a scrub (Bay Oil)
> 
> Not found in Forme of Curye.
> 
<snip>

Just to add to your list, both leaves and berries appear in Apicius, and
I believe that the leaves are mentioned in Taillevent's Viandier, which
makes their absence from Le Menagier all the more peculiar...

Adamantius

Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 14:02:50 -0500
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Spices

>I'm hoping someone can tell me what the two below spices are.  The 
>receipe that I'm looking at is medicinal in nature and specifies:
>
>Pellitory of Spain, the weight of half a groat and Spegall.
>
>Phyllis L. Spurr
>Eowyn ferch Rhys Cyfurdd
>Barony of Elfsea, Ansteorra

A mid-1930's Webster's gives pellitory as:

Pellitory, a corruption of L. parietaria, the wall plant.
Any plant of the genus Parietaria; hammerwort.
Feverfew.
Bastard peillitory; sneezewort.

Nothing on spegall

Bon Chance 
Bear

Date: 13 Oct 1997 11:47:17 -0500
From: "Sue Wensel" <swensel at brandegee.lm.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Herbs and their uses

>	I do not write the list much, but recently I have had a few questions
>some of you may be able to answer-or tell me where to find the answer. 
>What were the uses of specific herbs (as many as possible) in the Middle
>Ages & Ren?  Also, what are the actual uses that we know of today-for
>some herbs- medicinal ?

This is a huge task, and one I am researching as we speak.  I am in the
process of collecting recipes and analyzing what herbs tended to be used
together in cooking and what types of dishes they were used in
(meat/vegetable, pie/roast/soup. etc.)  I'll take someone's (meadbh's ??)
suggestion and list five with multiple uses:

Ceylon cinnamon -- cooking (especially with meat)
Sandalwood (saunders) -- red saunders -- food coloring; scenting homes and 
		people; decorative woodwork (fans, boxes) 
			    -- white 	-- not used much in food; used for scenting 
		homes and people, decorative woodwork (fans, boxes)
Pepper -- cooking, meats, vegetables and fruits
Chamomile (and most flowers) -- cooking (mostly teas and salats); cosmetics (
lotion, baths)
Saffron -- cooking (especially with cheeses and vegetables, but also as food
coloring); cloth dyeing

A word of caution:  If you plan to use herbs in any way, please get a good
modern herbal like John Lust's _The Herb Book_ before you begin.  Many of the
herbs used in period really aren't safe for ingestion.

Regarding the modern medicinal use of herbs (this is what you seem to be
looking for), let's not go there.  Right now the legal terrain for this is
very treacherous.

>				Lady Fiona Gwen O'Brannigan Of Northkeep
>				mka-(Angela Conn) 
>fianna at geocities.com

If you want more information, please let me know.  Given some time, I can come
up with much more information for you.

Derdriu
Guildmistress of the Herbalist Guild in the Barony Marche of the Debatable
Lands, Aethelmearc

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 07:26:37 -0800
From: "Anne-Marie Rousseau" <acrouss at gte.net>
Subject: Re: SC - spices vs. herbs?

Hi all from Anne-Marie

The strict definition is that if its from a leaf, its an herb, and if its
from bark, seeds, flowers, or a non-plant material etc its a spice.

According to my reading, in the middle ages, herbs did indeed encompass
things like swiss chard and spinach (this according to the lists of "herbs"
we are giving in things lke Charlemagnes _de Villis_ and other period
gardening lists). And this list isn’t limited to culinary herbs, either.

Hope this helps...
- --AM, who's 20th century mom says "if its cheap its an herb, if its
expensive and imported, its a spice" :)

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 98 14:32:30 PST
From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net>
Subject: SC - Fw: [Mid] Tansy

Thought this had some useful information for us all.

- ----------
: Date: Monday, March 16, 1998 03:46:31
: From: Sarah Lane-Dorrance
: To: Middlebridge
: Subject: [Mid] Tansy
:
: >Last year was my first Pensic. I had heard that there is often a high
: >presence of undesirable insects, but was lucky not to have many last year.
: >Something to consider as a repellent for inside your tents is bunches of
: >tansy. It is a better repellent than pennyroyal. Even flies don't like the
: >odor and it's not unpleasant for humans.
:
: Bunches of tansy and pennyroyal (I love the minty smell of pennyroyal!)
: work great as a fragrant bug repellent...a caveat, however:
:
: While the herbs can be ingested if one is careful (tansy, in small
: quantities, is a good tonic, being a bitter herb used to cleanse the body
: of impurities; small amounts of pennyroyal can be good for the digestion).
: HOWEVER - both herbs are potential abortifacients. Pregnant women should
: NEVER ingest them! Even essential oils might be volatile and dangerous.
: Also, tansy can cause heart irregularities if taken in even a slight
: overdose (I found this out the hard way) and one should never, ever, ever
: ingest neat (pure) oil of pennyroyal, or even diluted oil of pennyroyal in
: quantities larger than, oh, a drop or two at most. Oil of pennyroyal is
: highly volatile and toxic; it is a poison; it has caused deaths. Pennyroyal
: is in fact a very strong herb and needs to be used with caution. NEVER use
: oil of pennyroyal except for external use unless you happen to have the
: poison resistance of a Borgia prince.
:
: BTW, pregnant women should also avoid black and blue cohosh root. Blue
: cohosh especially is bad. It is used to treat amennorhea. This means that
: it too will kill your baby in the womb and cause you to expel it. At the
: very least it can potentially cause birth defects. Stay away!
:
: In general, pregnant women need to exercise as much care with herbs as they
: would with ordinary medications. Modern people, used to refined pills,
: forget that herbs are often quite potent. In particular, many of the herbs
: used in medieval cooking (angelica, myrrh, artemisia...) have medicinal
: properites. You are unlikely to find them in modern cooking, because modern
: people find the taste too strong or bitter, but when using a medieval
: recipe, look up the spices in a good herbal first.
:
: Any pregnant woman should have a copy of a herbal (preferably a herb
: encyclopaedia that is up to date; I don't recommend Culpeper's, it has some
: good information but also a lot of out-of-date information). This is useful
: if she is a big fan of herbal tea, or if she uses a lot of arcane spices in
: her cooking, or if she is a herbalist (in which case, she probably already
: has a herbal). most Celestial Seasonings teas, et al are not dangerous, but
: it never hurts to check. If any herb is listed as a potential abortifacient
: or strong toxin, she should avoid it.
:
: I am hoping to start trying to get pregnant next year, after I have my
: master's, so I'm trying to do lots of research. as it is, I do know which
: herbs are really strong abortifacients (and poisons). Many women are not
: aware of the toxicity of certain plants. Plants are powerful.
:
: Sarah Lane-Dorrance/Iseut la Gaunt-Roussie, called Midori
: ICQ #3022977
: LadyJessica at internetphone.com

Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:34:57 -0500
From: allilyn at juno.com (LYN M PARKINSON)
Subject: Re: SC - need info on common medieval herbs

_The Medieval Garden_, by Sylvia Landsberg, Thames & Hudson, 1995.  ISBN
0-500-01691-7.  Thames & Hudson, Inc. 500 Fifth Avenue, NY 10110.

This book is probably available from your local library.  It's a fine
book, has good illustrations, and will make good reading for you as well
as a nice demo prop.

Allison
allilyn at juno.com
Master Chirurgeon, Companion des Lindquistrings, Princess' Order of
Courtesy

Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:46:24 -0400
From: mermayde at juno.com (Christine A Seelye-King)
Subject: Re: SC - need info on common medieval herbs

The book "Herbs for the Mediaeval Household" by Margaret B. Freeman
published by the Metropolitan Museum of Art covers some very well known
medieval herbs, and has them sectioned off into Herbs for Cooking, Herbs
for Healing, Herbs for Poisoning Pests, and Sweet Smelling Herbs.  It is
also laid out with period woodcuts of all of the plants (and of gardens,
preparations, etc.) and I take it with me to demos just because it is a
pretty book on the topic.
        Good Luck,
        Mistress Christianna MacGrain,OP, Meridies

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 02:17:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: kgarner1 at ix.netcom.com (Kirsten Nicole Garner)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Spices

>(3) chervil (sp?)
>
>If anyone has information on what exactly they are I would be interested
>in hearing it.

Further to other answers here, chervil is amazingly easy to grow. I
just planted some and it sprouted within a week. It's only pot-planted
and I keep it in a window. It's doing fine.

I recommend using it fresh and only putting it into a dish at the last
moment. It loses its flavour really quickly when it's cooked.

You can get the seeds almost anywhere - I picked mine up at Home Depot.

Lady Julian ferch Rhys

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:14:41 EDT
From: LRSTCS <LRSTCS at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Spices

Do you have a Krogers in your area?  I've gotten chervil there but it was
$4.00 for a tiny bottle.  You can grow it easily in the spring or early
summer, check your best nursery in the herb section, you can by a whole plant
for less.

It's similar to parsley and has the same growing habits.  It has a slight
minty flavoring to me.  You could use parsley and just crumble a dried mint
leaf for about the same flavor.

Lady Maya

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:54:21
From: Sheron Buchele/Curtis Rowland <foxryde at verinet.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Spices

>(3) chervil (sp?)

Also known as French Parsley.   It has a fresh taste with a hint of anise.
You could use parsley and grind up a bit of fresh anise seed.  Or you might
sub in some fresh basil.  BTW, this is not an herb that dries well.  Grow
it fresh, use it with wild abandon, and mourn when the frost comes.  It
also does not  freeze at all well.  I sub the other things mostly.

Mistress Leonora
formerly Calontir
Unser Hafen, Outlands

Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 14:45:39 -0400
From: Becky Needham <betony at infinet.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Spices

> OK!  My question is:  Where can I find such a catalog?  We've been
> looking for sources for seeds for spices, etc. for a while, but haven't
> found any.  Any help would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Tarja Rahikkainen

You can find two very good magazines about herbs that are stuffed with
ads for catalogs, et al, and you can usually find these at your larger
groceries.  They are "Herb Quarterly" and "Herb Companion" (which I
think is the better of the two.)

Bet

 [Submitted by: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net>]
From: Jenne Heise <jenne at tulgey.browser.net>
To: herbalist at Ansteorra.ORG
Subject: HERB - Recommended book: The Herbal Arts
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 8:59 AM

_The Herbal Arts: A handbook of Gardening, Recipes, Healing, Crafts &
Spirituality_ by Patricia Telesco. Citadel Press, 1998. $12.95 paperback.
ISBN: 0-8065-1964-9.

My acquaintance with Patricia Telesco is through her new age/pagan books.
This volume, however, is very light on the 'spirituality' and heavy on the
practical herbalist skills.  The author, from Buffalo NY, says that she
used to be in the SCA but no longer has enough time, and she is an
excellent researcher. I'm only 1/2 way through this book but I'm already
impressed right out of my socks. It's worth the $12.95 just for the
section on Herbal Artistry, which gives base recipes/directions for
everything from beers, meads and liqueurs to creams, compresses, and
moisturizers.

There is also an extensive section (the back of the book
says more than 130) of herb profiles.  Not all of the standard herbs are
covered, but a number of non-standard ones are, including pumpkin, carob,
and oak. Folk names, history, folklore/superstition/magical uses,
medicinal users, culinary/crafts uses, and gardening/habitat, as well as
other things like the language of flowers, are given for each herb.
Several recipes/redactions are given for each, and comparative historical
material is featured: "contrary to Hippocrates' claim, the Arabs believe
mint improves virility. In the language of flowers, it represents virtue.
This is rather amusing, considering that the herbalist Culpeper says that
mint stirs up bodily lust"!

Though not a primary source, this is an excellent secondary/tertiary
source. So far, the only part of her work that I disagree with is her
definition of decoction, which is a vexed question anyway (do you boil
the material in the water for a decoction or just steep it longer?). The
'spirituality' aspect doesn't seem to me to be obtrusive, but as I said
the base recipes section is definitely a great help when concocting
crafts...

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa (Shire of Eisental; HERMS Cyclonus), mka Jennifer Heise
jenne at tulgey.browser.net

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:21:27 EST
From: DianaFiona at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Midol

VICTORIA.DAVIS at aeroquip.com writes:
<<  The active chemical (at
 least one of them) in aspirin is salicylic acid*.  In nature, this
 chemical is derived from white willow bark.  If you want a period "cure"
 for headaches and other minor pains, you can either chew the bark from a
 white willow tree or make a tea of it.  >>

   You had to go and hit one of my hot buttons--herbs! ;-) There are actually a
number of plants that contain salicylic acid, although the only one I seem to
be able to come up with off the top of my head is Queen-of-the-Meadow. White
willow, however, *is* about the most potent of the choices, as I recall. If
anyone is *really* interested, there was a good article on herbal "aspirin" in
an issue of Herb Companion or Herb Quarterly a few years back. Had a pretty
good history of the development of the drug, I believe, and possibly some
info on period uses of willow and such...........

                Ldy Diana

Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 15:04:44 -0500
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Medieval Plant names-Book

This might interest some of you:
 Tony Hunt, Plant names of Medieval England,
still in print I believe

Mel

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:40:33 -0500
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Plant names of Medieval England

A few people asked for more info off list so ISBN 0859912736
published1989(and 1994 I think) Plant names 1000-1500. It is Literally that
a list of Medieval names their modern (English) names the Latin names
(ie Plantago coronopus) and so on. It is very Acedemic, no pics or
interesting titbits, but if you are after pure knowledge it is very
interesting. At GBP50 it is pretty expensive and should be readiliy
avaliable through a library (I got my copy there)

Mel

Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 14:01:14 -0600
From: Gunnora Hallakarva <gunnora at bga.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Early British Plant Names

As a note, another interesting source of early British plant names is in:

Storms, G.  Anglo-Saxon Magic.  The Hague: Martinus Nijhoff. 1948.=20

There is a nice glossary in the back that lists the Anglo-Saxon plant names
(in Old English) with their modern equivalents and scientific names.  Of
course the body of the book discusses Lacnunga and the Leech-book, both of
which contain many herbal-magical recipe/spells.

Other related works that folks may find interesting:

Rudolf Grewe, An Early XIII Century Northern-European Cookbook,* in
Proceedings of A Conference on Current Research in Culinary History:
Sources, Topics, and Methods. Published by the Culinary Historians of
Boston, 1986.

Bonser, Wilfred.  The Medical Background of Ansglo-Saxon England: A Study
in History, Psychology and Folklore.  London: Wellcome Historical Medical
Library. 1963. 

Meaney, Audrey L. Anglo-Saxon Amulets and Curing Stones.  BAR British
Series 96. 1981.  [Contains information about herbal amulets as well,]

Gunnora Hallakarva
Herskerinde

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:04:08 -0500
From: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net>
Subject: SC - Fw: HERB - Decent Beginners Book

From: Warren & Meredith Harmon <corwynsca at juno.com>
To: herbalist at Ansteorra.ORG <herbalist at Ansteorra.ORG>
Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 4:19 PM
Subject: HERB - Decent Beginners Book

>Hello!   I was perusing my mother's herb book collection, and I found a
>very good, practical book for beginning herb people (like me!).  It's
>"The Complete Book of Herbs: A practical guide to cultivating, drying,
>and cooking with more than 50 herbs".  By Emma Callery, Courage Books (a
>subsidiary of Running Press out of Philadelphia, PA), ISBN 1-56138-351-1,
>Library of Congress # 93-85549.  (No price given, and Mom's not talking!
>She either picked it up at Border's, or at the Rodale sale - those are my
>guesses.)  It originally comes out of Quintet Publishers in London.  The
>first section deals with how to cultivate herbs, with all sorts of
>growing tips; the next section is all about garden layouts - what herbs
>to put with what - and most of the designs (including the two Celtic
>knots!!) are from the 16th & 17th centuries.  I count about 20 herb
>layouts, with tips for central displays (sundials, beehives, fountains,
>stone columns, etc.).  The next section is all sorts of craft projects to
>do, including drying tips: herb balls, posies, various potpourris,
>bridesmaid's posies (not documented, but they talk about a "long
>tradition in the Mediterranean"), lavendar wands, etc.  The last section
>is the listing of the 50 herbs, with subsets on history (they drop hints
>throughout - "English mallow features in a 2nd century herbal",
>"chamomile was mentioned in both Gerard's and Culpeper's herbals"),
>identification, cultivation, how to use.  Easch entry has a photograph
>closeup of the herb, and most have pictures of the herb growing in a
>garden.  Also, there are recipes scattered throughout, and most look old
>(I can't vouch for their periodicity).  One's for chamomile cleansing
>milk, another's for marigold wine, and marinated smoked fish.  Some
>recipes are newer, like potato salad with horseradish, and tarragon
>chicken.
> Anyway, I hope this helps!
>
>-Caro

Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:28:01 -0500
From: renfrow at skylands.net (Cindy Renfrow)
Subject: Re: SC - Tansy (again)

Hello!  Tansy flowers were all I could obtain at the time.  Please note,
tansy (the entire plant, including the seeds) is a medicinal herb, which
may cause abortion or death if taken in sufficient quantity.

Here are some web pages with more information:

http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/t/tansy-05.html

http://www.healthlink.us-inc.com/publiclibrary/nat_lib/htm-data/htm-herb/bhp746
.htm

http://www.vitamincity.com/herbs.htm

http://alternativmedicin.se/Sidor/Vax-140.html

http://www.planetherbs.com/articles/bloodherb.html

This is why I suggested using an alternative bittering agent in the recipe.

Cindy Renfrow/Sincgiefu
renfrow at skylands.net

Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:56:52 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Tansy (again)

TANACETUM (Tanace'tum)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DESCRIPTION: This hardy perennial, commonly called Tansy, has been used over
the centuries for treating various medical ailments and was traditionally used
as an insect repellent. The leaves and flowers were once added to Lenten
pancakes to give a bitter flavor that was meant to remind diners of suffering
and sacrifice. Tansy can be toxic. Never eat it in large amounts or drink
strong tisanes made from it. This lanky plant grows wild throughout Europe and
has escaped from cultivation in North America. It grows 3 to 4 feet high and
has finely divided, feathery leaves. After mid-summer, it bears flat clusters
of many small yellow flowers resembling buttons; they bloom for many weeks.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

POTTING: Young plants are transplanted outdoors after there is no danger from
frost. They are grown in full sun and regular garden soil. Place purchased
plants in the garden from late summer through fall. Cut off freshly opened
flowers. Dried flowers and leaves can be used in potpourris or layered between
clothes to repel insects. You can make a weak tisane. Cut and hang the long
flower stems for everlasting flowers.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PROPAGATION: Seeds should be started indoors, early in the spring and
eventually transferred to the garden. The clumps can be divided in the fall
and spring and replanted.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

VARIETIES: T. vulgare (the common Tansy) & variety crispum (smaller, more
finely divided foliage); T. Herderi (rare dwarf w/ silvery foliage).

Ras

Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 00:58:56 EST
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - Tansy (again)

Common Tansy (Tanacetum vulgare) Sunflower Family (Asteraceae). Flowering:
July-September. Habitat: Roadsides and edges of fields (escaped from gardens).
Height: 2-3' (60-90 cm) Range: Throughout. For centuries this plant was used
medicinally to cause abortions, with sometimes fatal results. The bitter
tasting leaves and stem contain tanacetum, an oil toxic to humans and
animals.

The fresh young leaves and flowers, however, can be used as a substitute for
sage in cooking.

Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 09:17:57 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - curry leaves?

nannar at isholf.is writes:
<< Curry leaves (Murraya koenigii) which we are discussing here and the herb
 >known as 'curry' are 2 different plants entirely. They are not interchangeable
 >in cookery. Sure about that? >>

Yes, "From a plant native to southern Asia, this fragrant herb looks like a
small, shiny lemon leaf and has a pungent curry fragrance. Quote Epicurious
Food site."

This plant is not the same thing as the plant described by someone else on
the list as a curry plant which had needle-like leaves.

<<Every book and source I´ve consulted only mentions one
 herb, which is curry leaves (Murraya or Chalcas koenigii). However, my
 Indian ingredients book says it can be either a shrub (or even a windowsill
 plant) or a 6 meter high tree, but it is still the same plant. >>

There are two different plants that are referred to as 'curry plants'. One is
Murraya koenegii which is the curry leaf plant that is used in Indian cooking
and as a cooking herb. This is a small tropical tree which can grow up to 6
feet in height in its natural habitat. It is not hardy in northern gardening
zones.

The other so-called 'curry plant' is Helichrysum angustifolium which smells
like the curry leaf but is not used in cooking. It has leaves similar to pine
needles or, more closely thyme leaves. This is most often the plant that
people grow in their herb gardens.

<<Curry powder is something entirely different,...>>

Correct. Each Indian recipe has it's own particular blend of spices.
Somewhere along the way, an enterprising businessman decided to standardize
this blend and market it as 'curry powder.' Most pre-made curry powders are
unbalanced and produce foul tasting food although I do have a commercially
produced Jamaican curry powder that is a very nice blend which I use in
specific personal non-Indian dishes for a touch of the exotic occasionally.

 Anyway, the curry leaf that is similar to lemon leaves in appearance is the
culinary herb. That plant which has the needle-like leaves is not the
culinary herb.

<< Nanna >>

Ras

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 11:09:16 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - spikenard

agora at algonet.se writes:
<< But the question is: is it a
 root from Indien or is it the Spanish "nardo", a fleshy and bitter
 flower? >>

a Himalayan aromatic plant (Nardostachys jatamansi) of the valerian family
from which spikenard is believed to have been derived

Spikenard itself is described as an 'ointment'.

Go figure.

Ras

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 20:28:35 -0700
From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>
Subject: Re: SC - spikenard

I have attached (below) the entries on "spignel" and "spikenard" (incomplete
as they are) from the glossary of spice names I am working on writing. It
would seem that Spikenard is usually the root etc. of "Nardostachys
jatamansi", but may on occasion be "Meum athamanticum". We sell the
jatamansi (which is certainly what is meant in 90% of the references, going
back to Roman times, but haven't found a source of the meum yet (anyone know
one?).

I'd be very interested in experiences, recipes, and comments from people who
have used spikenard. We have only recently added it to our stock, and I
haven't got around to doing much testing yet.

Francesco Sirene
David Dendy / ddendy at silk.net
partner in Francesco Sirene, Spicer / sirene at silk.net
Visit our Website at http://www.silk.net/sirene/

SPIGNEL
 [English 1579; "spignale" 1502 (OED2 "Spignel")] Also known as "meum" or
"baldmoney".
 "The aromatic root of the umbelliferous plant Meum athamanticum, used, when
dried and ground, in medicine as a carminative or stimulant, or as a spice
in cookery." (OED2 "Spignel")
  This was used in some spiced wine concoctions (viz. "1502 Arnolde Chron.
(1811) 188 Take cloues and gelofre, . . gynger and spignale, . . and temper
hem with good wyne." OED2 "Spignel")
  It may on occasion have been used as SPIKENARD, particularly where the
recipe calls for "spykenard de Spayn" (Hieatt and Butler 1985, p. 143), as
spignel was on occasion known as as "spygnal of Spaine" and Turner's 1562
Herbal says it "peraduenture was ones called Spiknard." (OED2 "Spignel")

SPIKENARD
 [English c.1350; from the late or medieval Latin spica nardi, rendering the
Greek               (also            ) (OED2 "Spikenard")]
  (1) "The source of the true or Indian nard is now identified as
Nardostachys jatamansi, a plant of the family Valerianacae, the fibrous
root-stocks or ‘spikes' of which are still collected in Bhotan and Nepal."
(Encyclopædia Britannica 1932, vol. 21, p. 216)
  Flückiger and Hanbury confirm that Indian Nard is the rhizome of
Nardostachys Jatamansi DC., and is one of several substances known under the
name of sumbul, an Arabic word signifying an ear or spike. (Flückiger and
Hanbury 1879, p. 312)
  The ointment made from the plant is said to have gone under the name of
sinbul Hindi or Indian spike. (Walker 1957, p. 196)
  Jatamanshi is mentioned as a spice in Indian sources of the era 400-200
B.C. (Achaya 1994, p. 37)
  The perfume is actually in the lower hairy stems (the indian name
jatamansi refers to the shaggy hair, or ‘ermine tails', covering the stems).
These are tied together by the roots. (Walker 1957, p. 196) It is stated to
still be sold today [1957], as in New Testament times,  in alabaster boxes
which preserve the essential perfume. (Ibid.)
  As an aromatic ingredient in costly perfumes and unguents of the Romans
and the Middle Eastern peoples of classical times, spikenard was highly
prized. "The ointment prepared from it is mentioned in the New Testament
(Mark xiv. 3-5; John xii.3-5) as being ‘very costly,' a pound of it being
valued at more than 300 denarii (over £10 [work out modern equivalent value,
based on wages]). This appears to represent the prices then current for the
best quality of nard, since Pliny (H.N. xii, 26) mentions that nard spikes
reached as much as 100 denarii per lb." (Encyclopædia Britannica 1932, vol.
21, p. 216)
  The spice appears in Roman sources under several variant names: the late
4th or early 5th century cookbook of Apicius has nardostachyum and spica
Indica (Apicius 1958, pp. 56, 146, 164, 184, 211) In the Excerpts of
Vinidarius, an Ostrogoth living in North Italy in the fifth or sixth
century, his "Brevis Pimentorum" ("List of Condiments") includes both spica
indica and spicanardi, suggesting that the two are not precisely the same
thing. (Apicius 1977, p. 234; Apicius 1984, p. 282)
  (2) Garcia da Orta, a Portuguese physician and apothecary who spent 35
years (from 1534 on) at Goa in India, "verified that the spikenard of the
ancient Greeks was Cymbopogon schoenanthus, rosha grass that grew on the
banks of the Ganges." (Achaya 1994, p. 169) This, formerly designated
Andropogon Schœnanthus L., is a grass of Northern and Central India, which
yields by distillation the oil known as Rúsa Oil or Oil of Ginger Grass.
(Flückiger and Hanbury 1879, pp. 725-726)
  (3) See SPIGNEL, which may on occasion have been meant, particularly when
"Spykenard de Spayn" is referred to.
  (4) "Ploughman's Spikenard" (1597 OED2 "Spikenard") is Inula conyza
(formerly assigned to the genera Baccharis and Conyza), a sweet-scented
shrubby plant which grows wild in Britain. It was used medicinally, and as a
garland plant, but no mention is made of culinary use. (Gerard 1994, p. 183)
  (5) There are several other plants which have acquired the name spikenard,
but which will not have been meant during the period covered here. Aralia
racemosa is known as American spikenard or great spikenard, but it is a
North American plant and there is no evidence of its use before 1600 (it is
now sold by herbal suppliers, in North America at least, simply as
"spikenard", so buyers would be wise to check the botanical name of what
they are buying). Another species of the same genus, Aralia nudicaulis, as
well as being called wild sarsaparilla is also known as wild spikenard and
small spikenard, but is again of American extraction. In the West Indies
Hyptis suaveolens is called spikenard. (Encyclopædia Britannica 1932, vol.
21, p. 216; OED2 "Spikenard")

Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 06:32:03 -0400
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - was dill seed used?

Stefan li Rous wrote:
> This reminds me, since I've recently been using dill to season various
> things, I was wondering about this. Is dill mentioned as a period herb/spice
> in any of the period cooking recipes we have? I imagine it does grow in
> Europe. I would think it would be used like mustard seed. Not in fancy
> feasts, since it would be local and not imported, but perhaps there is
> mention of it. Perhaps in Le Menegier(sp?) ?

If there is, I haven't seen it. I'd think that since the heaviest modern
concentration of dill use seems to be in the cuisines of Eastern Europe,
the Balkans, and Scandinavia, it might suggest dill isn't especially
common in the rest of Europe, or at least might not be indigenous to
places like France and England. I dunno, maybe they just didn't like the stuff.

Wait. Scratch that. Partly. I see in the dictionary that dill is
represented in Middle English usage as "dille" and dylle", from the
Anglo-Saxon "dile', which is related to the Old High German "tilli",
possibly based on Indo-European roots meaning "to swell". This would
suggest it was at least known in medieval England and perhaps France,
but I still don't recall seeing it mentioned in any of the period
recipes I'm familiar with. Possibly, as you suggest, it wouldn't appear
in recipes intended for "fancy feasts", and maybe few written recipes
requiring it exist. Another possibility is that it had a wider medicinal
than culinary usage.

Dill, BTW, is a favorite of mine, because in my opinion dried dillweed
is a closer approximation to the fresh article than just about any other
herb. It seems to lose the least of its flavor, color, and texture,
possibly because of its structure and the resultant tendency to dry out
quickly, leaving something that doesn't just taste like mulch, as things
like dried tarragon, basil, and parsley tend to do.

Adamantius

Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:02:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vicki Strassburg <taltos at primenet.com>
Subject: Re: SC - was dill seed used?

Interesting info from the OED about dill which may help in its uses.
~Maedb

C. 1000 Ags. Gosp. Matt. xxiii. 23 Wa eow, boceras..(asg)e pe teodiad
mintan and dile and cymyn.

C. 1000 Sax. Leechd. II. 20 Wip heafod ece (asg)enim diles blostman.

A. 1387 Sinon. Barthol. (Anecd. Oxon.) 10 Anetum, dile vel dille.

C. 1420 Pallad. on Husb. iv. 167 Nowe sette in places colde, senvey and
dyle.

1578 Lyte Dodoens ii. xc. 270 They sowe Dill in al gardens, amongst
wortes, and Pot herbes.

1590 Spenser F.Q. iii. ii. 49 Had gathered rew, and savine, and the flowre
Of camphora, and calamint, and dill.

1612 Drayton Poly-olb. xiii. 218 The wonder-working Dill..Which curious
women use in many a nice disease.

1627 Drayton Agincourt, etc., Nymphidia 127 Therewith her Veruayne and her
Dill, That hindreth Witches of their will.

THE OED SAYS DILL IS ALSO KNOWN AS ANET AND HERE's STUFF ON THAT:

C. 1265 in Wright Voc. 140 Anetum, anete, dile.

1382 Wyclif Matt. xxiii. 23 Woo to 3ou, scribis and Pharisees..that tithen
mente, anete [v.r. anese] and comyn.

1398 Trevisa Barth. De P.R. xvii. lxxi. (1495) 645 The sede of Ferula is
lyke to Annet.

1533 Elyot Cast. Helth (1541) 76 Oyle of camomyll, oyle of anete, and
other lyke.

1540 R. Wisdom in Strype Eccl. Mem. I. App. cxv. 317 To tyth mint &
annett;

Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:13:29 +0200
From: Jimmie.Ruthford at ramstein.af.mil
Subject: SC - Dill

        Someone was inquiring about the use of Dill in period cooking.  I
have a couple of books that make use of dill in the modern version of a
period recipe, but I haven't seen dill in the original recipe.  However,
there is reference to a manuscript that includes a section on "all manner of
herbs".  The manuscript is called "Le Regime du corps", written by
Aldobrandino da Siena in the thirteenth century.

        Roibeard

Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 23:57:06 -0000
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>
Subject: Re: SC - was dill seed used?

Adamantius wrote:
> Another possibility is that it had a wider medicinal than culinary usage.

The Harpestraeng medical miscellany I´m currently studying has quite a few
medical uses for dill - leaves, seeds, root and flowers. It is not mentioned
in the recipes in the cookbook section but that doesn´t mean much, as the
manuscript probably originates in Southern Europe, where dill seems not to
have been used much in cooking, if at all.

Nanna

Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 18:44:31 +1000
From: lorix <lorix at trump.net.au>
Subject: Re: SC - white leaves?

Mike Young wrote:
> Are there any herbs or other edible period plants with white leaves?
> Strange question I know, but I'm actually involved in a heraldry debate
> trying to help a friend design arms.
> gwyneth

Whilst I can think of herbs with white flowers, the one that currently springs
to mind is Wormwood.  This herb has a silvery grey foliage rather than white
though.  Its scientific name is Abinsinthium.  It is related to mugwort.  Both
herbs are bitter digestive remedies and many bitter aperitifs such as vermouth
contain wormwood as a digestive stimulant.  As its name implies, wormwood is
also used to expel worms.  It s supposed to be able to be dated to Anglo Saxon
times according to my medicinal herb book, I believe I have seen reference to it
in Culpeppers.
It has distinct side effects (uterine stimulants which may cause fetal
abnormality" & contains the potentially addictive thujone, which gave the drink
abinsthe its notorious reputation.

It is exceptionally pretty.

Lorix

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:56:16 -0700
From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Tatar herbs from Poland

>Someone sometime ago, mentioned wanting to know what a
>reference in a Polish account might be.  It was
>something about a Tatar herb.  Unfortunately, I can't
>find the message, but I have found something that
>might be of help.

My lady, that was me, enquiring.

>Yesterday, I received my copy of "Food and Drink in
>Medieval Poland" [huzzah!].  Of course, I had to sit
>right down and start reading.  In chapter 4, I found
>this reference:
>
>"Tartarian buckwheat [(Fagopyrum tataricum)] came to
>Poland from central Asia during the thirteenth
>century, along with sweet flag (Acorus calamus) and
>Tartar bread plant (Crambe tatarica), a potherb often
>used in porridges prepared with buckwheat grits.  The
>fleshy, sweet root of this latter herb was grated into
>vinegar like horseradish or cooked with parsnips,
>carrots, or skirrets.  The leaves were often used by
>country people to wrap around bread baked downhearth
>in ashes or in bake ovens, which gave bread a nice,
>golden crust."
>
>Anyway, this passage jogged my memory about what we
>had discussed sometime ago and I had to post this.
>
>Huette

I just got back from my holidays, as part of which I spent a couple of days
luxuriating in a decent library (University of British Columbia), and I was
able to pursue my original question. First I used an English-Polish
dictionary to get a Polish translation of "Tatar herb" ("tatarskie ziele"),
then I leapt into the various large Polish dictionaries. No luck. Then into
the Polish encyclopedias. Found it at last, deep in the bowels of the
library, in the ENCYKLOPEDIA STAROPOLSKA, published at Warsaw in 1939 (not
an auspicious date for Polish publications, I suspect -- I feel it is very
fortunate the library had this), Vol II, column 699: ". . . np. r. 1472
tatarskie ziele, pozniej tatarak ("acorus") . . ."  Aha! Several of the
dictionaries had indicated that 'tatarak' is "Acorus calamus" (sweet flag),
so now this linked up, and I interpret it as indicating the use of the term
as first dated to 1472, well before the 1604 context where I found it.

And now you have provided confirmation from "Food and Drink in Medieval
Poland". Hurrah! And many thanks for your kindness in remembering my
question after a considerable period of time.

Just one further question. . . . Is there any further reference in the book
to the use of sweet flag? I know it was widely used in perfumery, and also
has been (and I believe still is) used in the Middle East in confectionery
(the candied root was used as an aphrodisiac). I am wondering if the Poles
imported it for use in perfumes, in medicine, or in food.

Francesco Sirene

Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:06:40 -0700
From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>
Subject: Re: cassia buds; was SC - questions: TO BOIL PHEASANTS

Re cassia Buds:
>Would you use them whole, or grind them?
>
>Eleanor d'Aubrecicourt

Either, I suspect, depending on the context. Some of the spice mixtures that
call for them seem most likely to have been ground, but they may also have
been used whole. In modern times they are used whole in pickling solutions,
and also, I believe, in some sausages. Incidentally, although not
documentable, ASFAIK, they also make a very pleasant and less overpowering
substitute for cloves in cloved fruit (some of the more amorous locals in my
area swear they'll never use cloves again).

Francesco Sirene

Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:47:36 -0000
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nanna_R=F6gnvaldard=F3ttir?=" <nannar at isholf.is>
Subject: Re: SC - Tatar herbs from Poland

Francesco Sirene wrote:
>Just one further question. . . . Is there any further reference in the book
>to the use of sweet flag? I know it was widely used in perfumery, and also
>has been (and I believe still is) used in the Middle East in confectionery
>(the candied root was used as an aphrodisiac). I am wondering if the Poles
>imported it for use in perfumes, in medicine, or in food.

Tom Stobart says, in Herbs, Spices and Flavourings, that "All parts of this
plant are sweet and aromatic and the roots were at one time candied to make
a strongly pungent sweetmeat in both England and America. It is used as a
flavouring, particularly in liqueurs. The very young leaf buds can also be
eaten as a salad. Older rhizomes are often fibrous."

Nanna

Subject: RE: ANST - Lard
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 99 14:35:17 MST
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
To: "'ansteorra at ansteorra.org'" <ansteorra at Ansteorra.ORG>

> What is a good substitute for Lard in today's cooking world and for penny
> royal?
>
> F. Havas
> ches at io.com

<snip of lard info. See cooking-oils-msg>

You might try substituting mint for pennyroyal.  There are two different
plants that I know of with the name pennyroyal.  Mentha pulegium is the
Eurasian mint which produced the aromatic oil used in medieval Europe.
Hedeoma pulegioides is North American pennyroyal whose aromatic oil is used
in insect repellent.  I've never experimented with the stuff, so I don't
know if the two can be used interchangeably.

Bear

Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 12:13:54 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: SC - Herbs

troy at asan.com writes:
<< Interesting, though, to learn that parsley, from a botanical
 perspective, is not an herb... >>

Miriam-Webster disagrees. :-)

herb (noun)

often attributive

[Middle English herbe, from Old French, from Latin herba]

First appeared 14th Century

 1 : a seed-producing annual, biennial, or perennial that does not develop
persistent woody tissue but dies down at the end of a growing season

 2 : a plant or plant part valued for its medicinal, savory, or aromatic
qualities

 3 slang : MARIJUANA 2

 -- herb*like (adjective)

 -- herby (adjective)

Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 19:16:49 -0500
From: "Alderton, Philippa" <phlip at morganco.net>
Subject: SC - Growing herbs indoors

I just got this from the Burpee seed people, and I thought those of you on
the List who grow herbs might find it of interest.

Phlip
------
December 27, 1999

The Burpee Garden News is presented by your friends
at Burpee and the National Gardening Association.
Every two weeks, you will receive gardening
news, tips, and inspiration from our panel of experts.
=======================

Growing an Indoor Herb Garden

Even if your climate kisses the herb garden goodbye
for the winter, that doesn’t mean you have to do
without fresh herbs for all your hearty winter dishes.
An indoor herb garden is only as far away as your
windowsill. Basil, chives, oregano, parsley, rosemary,
sage, savory, tarragon, and thyme are especially
well suited to growing in containers. Here are some
tips for cultivating your windowsill herb garden:

* Purchase herb plants or sow seeds into pots filled
with sterile potting soil. With few exceptions, herbs
require excellent drainage. When roots are confined
in a pot or planter, water and air cannot move easily.
To improve drainage, add sharp sand or perlite to a
good, sterilized, compost-based mix.

* If you have the space for an indoor window box,
place the individual herb pots inside the larger box
and fill it with soil up to the rim of the pots. This helps
maintain higher humidity and promotes better growth.

* Most herbs are sun worshippers so choose a
location that receives at least 4 hours of direct
sunlight a day. Grow lights can boost the light levels
if you don’t have the ideal spot.

* In garden soil, herbs don’t need much fertilizer.
But in the confines of a pot, supplementary feedings
with liquid fertilizer or organic fish emulsion are
necessary. Feed herbs once a week when plants
are actively growing.

* When the soil is dry to the touch, add water until it
comes out  of the bottom of the pot. If the water doesn't
come out, the pots have a drainage problem. First,
see if the holes are blocked; if not, you may
have to repot with soil that has better drainage.

Question of the Week
=================
Q. How can I keep my rosemary plant from drying up
and dying when I bring it indoors for the winter?

A. Under high light conditions, such as in your
outdoor garden in summer, plants produce thick,
strong, and narrow leaves. These leaves are less
efficient in converting light energy into food than
the leaves a plant produces under low light levels
because they don’t need to be especially efficient
when light is plentiful. If you move an outdoor plant
indoors, the plant drops leaves because it can’t
make enough food to sustain itself until it grows
new low-light leaves. To give your rosemary time
to grow these new leaves in preparation for life
indoors, you can gradually accustom the plant
to deeper shade for 2 to 3 weeks before
bringing it indoors. When plenty of new growth
appears, the plant is ready to go into the house.

Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:51:57 +0000
From: Anthony Lyman-Dixon <lyman at lyman-dixon.freeserve.co.uk>
Organization: Arne Herbs
To: Stefan at texas.net, RSVE60 at email.sps.mot.com
Subject: Medieval Herbs

Accidentally fell across your web site, very interesting. Here at Arne
Herbs, Bristol UK, we use the following sources as references:-

Crescenzi, Hunt's Materia medica of Salerno, Getz's "Healing & Society
in Medieval England, anything mentioned at the Dumbarton Oaks "medieval
conference" and Braccio's poetic inventory of the Careggi  garden.

Riddle (UNC) and the late Jerry Stannard (University of Kansas) are also
invaluable sources of information and all of which are published in the
USA. We try and grow anything in these lists that will survive the
English climate but regret that we can not sell to America. Again,
regretfully owing to constraints on my time, the Arne Herbs advice line
is only available to our clients (unless someone comes up with a problem
that really fascinates me)  but I am available for consultancy and
lectures on historic gardens.

Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2000 10:28:47 -0800
From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Apicius and Platina

>I am in the process of interpreting recipes for the cooks guild tomorrow
>night, and have come up with two questions.  In Apicius, the recipe for Crane 
>or Duck with Turnips lists "laser foot".  It must be a spice, but I am unable
>to find it.
>Aldyth

As another respondent just pointed out, "laser foot" should read "laser
root"; laser is asafetida, a very smelly resin from a plant which grows in
Iran and other countries nearby. A little of it brings up other flavours
beautifully (just don't overdo it). Don't confuse laser with silphium, as an
earlier comment did. Silphium was the resin of a related plant which  became
extinct due to overharvesting in the wild in the period of the early Roman
Empire (so, anyhow,  if you have an Apician recipe calling for silphium,
your best substitute is the closely related asafetida).

Yours spicily,
Francesco Sirene

Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 14:19:17 -0500
From: Philip & Susan Troy <troy at asan.com>
Subject: Re: SC - Apicius and Platina

David Dendy wrote:
> Silphium was the resin of a related plant which  became
> extinct due to overharvesting in the wild in the period of the early Roman
> Empire (so, anyhow,  if you have an Apician recipe calling for silphium,
> your best substitute is the closely related asafetida).

And available in Indian groceries under the name "hing powder", although
I bet there are several SCAdian venues for purchase, too, including,
probably, Francesco. The whole extinct-silphium question is a major part
of the plot of Lindsey Davis's wonderful ancient-Roman-private-eye novel
"Two For the Lions".

Adamantius

Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 13:19:34 -0600
From: Magdalena <magdlena at earthlink.net>
Subject: SC - more Tusser

Herbs to Still in Summer

1.   Blessed Thistle
2.   Betonye
3.   Dill
4.   Endive
5.   Eyebright
6.   Fennell
7.   Fumetorie
8.   Hop
9.   Mints
10. Plantaine
11. Roses, red and damaske
12. Respies
13. Sarefrage
14. Strawberries
15. Sorrell
16. Suckerie
17. Wodroffe, for sweet waters and cakes

Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 16:49:37 -0600
From: Magdalena <magdlena at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: SC - more Tusser

LrdRas at aol.com wrote:
> magdlena at earthlink.net writes:
> << Herbs to Still in Summer >>
>
> Meaning , please? I assume it means 'distill', a little used form of the word
> 'still'?

That is my assumption....

May's Husbandry

The knowledge of stilling is one pretty feat,
the waters be wholesome, the charges not great:
What timely thou gettest, while summer doth last,
think winter will help thee, to spend it as fast.

- -Magdalena

Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:19:40 -0600 
From: "Decker, Terry D." <TerryD at Health.State.OK.US>
Subject: RE: SC - Native American "coffee".

Chicory (Chicorium intybus) is an Old World plant introduced to the New
World by Europeans.  The term is occasionally applied to other members of
the family including radicchio.  The roots, dried and ground, are used to
adulterate coffee.

Bear

Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:03:10 +1000
From: Lorix <lorix at trump.net.au>
Subject: Re: SC - Saxon Violets

Etain1263 at aol.com wrote:
> I was wondering the same thing:  are violas edible? (referred to around here
> as "johnny jump-ups")

Another name for "johnny jump-ups" is heartsease, my medicinal herbal book gives
the following detail:
quote from Bartholomaeus Anglicus in reference to violas "The lytylnes ... in
substance be nobly rewarded in greatnesse of sauour and of vertue (c1250)

Sweet violet & heartsease (v. odorata & v.tricolour) have been used medicinally
since ancient times.  Homer relates how the Athenians used violets to "moderate
anger", while Pliny recommends wearing garlands of violets to prevents headaches
& dizzyness.  Heartsease was once used in love potions, hence the name.

Heartsease can be used for a wide range of skin disorders, from nappy rash to
varicose ulcers.  A good cough expectorant because of high saponin content
(however high doses should be avoided because saponin can lead to nausea &
vomiting).  The areial parts also tonify & strengthen the blood vessels.
Harvest while flowering.  Use as an infusion for chronic skin disorders & as a
gentle circultory & imune system stimulent.  Use as a tincture for lung &
digestive disorders, capilliary fragility & urinary problems.

In summary:
V. Odorata (sweet violet) acts as an anti-inflammatory, stimulating expectorant,
diuretic & anti-tumour remedy.
V.tricolour (heartsease) acts as an expectorant, anti-inflammatory, diueretic,
antiheumatic, laxative & stabilises capillary mebranes.

Ie:  yes it is edible ;-)

YIS, Lorix

Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 13:18:36 -0400
From: Christine A Seelye-King <mermayde at juno.com>
Subject: Re: SC - organ meats and anthelmintics??

> I think it would have to have been a very desperate person to have 
> eaten tripe, given the lack of internal parasite control.  Roundworms, 
> tapeworm and several other species are VERY obvious in a slaughtered
animal  when the intestines are opened or cleaned.  I can't see anyone
willingly  using the host organs as a food source...eeewwwww! 8^)
> 
> Was there a period formula for de-worming stock??  I know tobacco 
> can be used for roundworms, but what was used before it became
available?   
> 
> Prydwen

	Yes, there are several herbs that were (and still are) used for removing
worms and parasites from children, adults, and livestock.  Garlic is
mentioned in Egyptian herbals (for numerous uses) for worms, Culpepper
recommends garlic for killing worms in children (amongst other things). 
Sage is also said to kill intestinal worms, and there are numerous other
vermifuges (agents that destroy or expel intestinal worms, aka vermicide;
& antithelmintic).  New world plants, or at least modern preparations
that are used to great success with this include black walnut (old
world?), pumpkin seed, and pau d'arco. 
	Christianna
	who is planning on a parasite cleanse soon - ooh, boy! 

Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 23:25:08 -0600
From: Serian <serian at uswest.net>
Subject: Re: SC - chamomile

One source I have, Hildegard of Bingen's _Physica_, has
several citations for chamomile.  One is for painful
intestines, ear remedy, eye remedy, etc.

Serian

Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 02:01:36 -0500
From: Magdalena <magdlena at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: SC -Coffee Soap

DianaFiona at aol.com wrote:

>     OK, since this *isn't* the Herb list: does anyone recall seeing any
> recipes--medicinal or otherwise--for chamomile in period? I'm drawing a blank
> at the moment..........

>From Culpeper:

Chamomel flowers heat, discuss, loosen and rarify, boiled in Clysters, they are
excellent in the wind cholic, boiled in wine,
and the decoction drunk, purges the reins, break the stone, opens the pores, cast out choleric humours, succours the heart, and
eases pains and aches, or stiffness coming by travelling.

http://www.bibliomania.com/NonFiction/Culpeper/Herbal/chap369.html

Also,

Syrupus de Absinthio simplex
                                    Or Syrup of Wormwood simple

 College : Take of the clarified Juice of common Wormwood, clarified Sugar, of each four pounds, make it into a Syrup according to art. After the same manner,
are prepared simple Syrups of Betony, Borrage, Bugloss, Carduus, Chamomel,
Succory, Endive, Hedge-mustard, Strawberries, Fumitory, Ground Ivy, St. John's
Wort, Hops, Mercury, Mousear, Plantain, Apples, Purslain, Rasberries, Sage,
Scabious, Scordium, Houseleek, Colt's-foot, Paul's Bettony, and other Juices not
sour.

    Culpeper : See the simples, and then you may easily know both their virtues,
and also that they are pleasanter and fitter for
delicate stomachs when they are made into Syrups.

BTW,  Culpeper is one of the sources of documentation for cordials made with
spirits.

Tinctura Fragroram
                                     Or Tincture of Strawberries

College : Take of ripe Wood-strawberries two pounds, put them in a phial, and
put so much small spirits of Wine to them, that it may overtop them the thickness of four fingers, stop the vessel close, and set it in the sun two days, then strain it, and press it but gently; pour this spirit to as many fresh Strawberries, repeat this six times, at last keep the clear liquor for your use.

Culpeper : A fine thing for Gentlemen that have nothing else to do with their
money, and it will have a lovely look to please their eyes.

- -Magdalena

Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 08:33:18 -0400
From: Gaylin <iasmin at home.com>
Subject: SC - Anise

Serian asked (on the Cook's list for those of you reading
this on the Herbalist list):

>Does anyone know about history of anise and when/if it was
>used in period?

And Ras responded kindly with:

>Anise originated in Egypt from which it spread to the middle east and then
>throughout the Mediterranean basin. It was used as a medicinal and as a
>flavoring agent.

While this is essentially true to my knowledge, also to my
knowledge it may be incomplete. By anise I'm going to assume
we mean Pimpinella anisum and not Illicium verum
which is also known as anise, but usually star anise
and is from China (incidently it's a tree in the Magnolia
family, something I didn't know until just now when I
was doublechecking the latin name). Confusion on the
names should come as no suprise. Even today we have
troubles, but during our researched time P. anisum
was confused with Anethum gaveolens, which finally
came to be called "dill" or "anet"

Interesting side note here about mistranslation and
confusion. In the Bible, we find a reference to "anise"
as a payment for taxes along with mint and cumin
(Mathew 23:23), but many scholars disagree and
believe that the correct translation is "dill" not
"anise". Watch out for references and translations
in period manuscripts, as this is a tripping point.

Ras is right in that Egypt is the source of P. anisum
and Waverly Root  states that this is the only place
in the world where the plant still grows in the wild
(Food, pg. 6) From Egypt, most sources say the plant
spread through Africa until it reached the Mediterranean
where the ancient Greeks and Romans took off with
it and never returned.

P. anisum is mentioned in a very many ancient and
period manuscripts. It has been used in food and perfumery
since its discovery and during our researched time
period it is very easy to find references to its inclusion
in those arts/science we study. In cooking, as several
people have mentioned, it is used in recipes where a
cook might be looking for an anise flavor or perhaps to
balance out the humors by aiding digestion. Many feasts
ended with sugared anise (cf. Platina's "De Honesta
Voluptate") and again according to Waverly Root, "no
Roman wedding banquet was complete without anise
cakes" (Food, ibid.). It has also been used an addition
to many other dishes. Taillevent mentions it and uses
it often in a variety of recipes (someone on the list
should be able to supply you with some; I'm still
waiting for my copy to appear in my collection).

Although I do not like the taste of anise much at all,
my personal enjoyment of P. anisum does not stem from
the cooking interests, but rather from the medicinal
in period. In all honesty, digestion ranks as the top
medicinal use of the plant, but as you approach later
period manuscripts, you'll find you can't swing a dead
cat without hitting another illness it was intended to
cure. Among the symptoms or situations it was said
to cure are epilepsy (cf. Pythagorus); coughs (cf.
Hippocrates); halitosis, old age, and bad dreams (cf.
Pliny); flatulence; low flow of mother's milk; and
nausea. As you go further and later in time, more
cures pop up. Of the cures I listed, flatulence and
indigestion, coughs, and nausea can be substantiated
by modern science. There may be more, but I've not
read the studies on them.

Jasmine
iasmin de cordoba

Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 03:21:52 +1000
From: "Lee-Gwen Booth" <piglet006 at globalfreeway.com.au>
Subject: Re: SC - juniper berries

From: Lorix
> Umm, just out of interest, were juniper berries used in period & if
> so, what original sources call for their use.  I can get them at my
> local supermarket quite cheaply, but i haven't seen a period recipe
> that calls for their use.

I can't be sure how accurate my source is, but I have a book called "Spices
and Natural Flavourings - A complete guide to identification and uses of
common and exotic spices and natural flavourings" by Jennifer Mulherin.
This is some of what she has to say about juniper:

"Juniper berries have a sweet and aromatic woody taste and although juniper
is a common culinary spice in northern Europe, it is probably most familiar
as the distinctive flavouring in gin.  Known since biblical times, the
berries and leaves were used by the Greeks and Romans and in Europe until
the 16th century as a medicinal aid against plague and pestilence as well as
snake bites.  Juniper is an interesting flavouring which is rather neglected
in British cookery but used often in Sweden, Germany, Italy, and southern
Europe where, in fact, the most flavourful berries come from."  [Wince!  The
language pedant in me hated typing this sentence!]

Gwynydd

Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 01:51:32 +0200
From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - juniper berries

<< Umm, just out of interest, were juniper berries used in period & if
so, what original sources call for their use. >>

Among the German sources there are:
- -- the Rheinfraenkisches Kochbuch (c. 1445)
- -- the Kuechenmeisterei (1485ff)
- -- the Alemannisches Buechlein von guter Speise (15thC)
- -- the cookbook of Philippina Welser (c. 1545)
- -- the cookbook of Sabina Welser (c. 1553)
- -- the cookbook of Marx Rumpolt 1581
- -- medical and dietetic texts like that of Seitz (16thC) and Huebner
(1588/1603)

The old names are "krametber", "wacholderber" or "reckolterber" and
their spelling variants.

Thomas

Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 22:35:07 +0200
From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - juniper berries

Hieronymus Bock in his herbal (1577) stresses -- apart from mentioning
several medical uses -- the culinary value of juniper:

'... To sum up, juniper berries are useful and good for many things;
this is why the cooks called such berries into their kitchens; they fill
chicken and birds with it'. -- ("Seind inn summa zuo vil dingen nutz
vnnd guot/ derhalben so hat der Koch solche beerlein auch zuo sich inn
die kuchen beruoffen/ fuellet darmit Huener vnd Voegel"; Bock 1577,
378b)

Here is a 16th century English recipe for this kind of use:

"To roste woodcockes
Plucke them, and then draw the guts out of them, but
leave the liver still in them, then stuffe them with
Larde chopped small, and Juniper berries, with his bill
put into his breast and his feet as the Snite, and so
roste him on a spit, + set under it a faire large pan,
with white wine in it, and chopped Parsley, Vingar, salt,
and ginger. Then make tostes of white bread, and toaste
them upon a Gridyron, so that they be not burnt: then put
these tostes in a dish, and up-them lay your woodcocks,
and put your sawce being the same broth upon them, and so
serve them foorth."
(The good huswifes handmaide for the kitchen 1594, ed. Peachey)

Other old names for juniper (the plant), mentioned in some old herbals
include:
- -- french "geniËvre"
- -- provencal "genibre", "genebre", "cade" (for a big juniper)
- -- spanish "enebro"
- -- italian "ginepro" (e.g. mentioned in the "Horto de i semplici di
Padoua" 1591)
- -- middle Dutch "genever" (also "wakelbere" for the berry)
- -- and others from Arabic, Bohemian, Greek, Hebrew, Syrian ...

Alas, the folk names and the dialectal names are not mentioned. For the
English language, Hoops ("Waldb‰ume und Kulturpflanzen, p. 271) writes,
that there is no real folk name for juniper. The oe. "cwicbeam", me.
"quikentre" for the plant were used only rarely.

Thomas

Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 23:52:32 EDT
From: allilyn at juno.com
Subject: Re: SC - juniper berries - long

German cookery, Lorix.  The English seemed to have been busy trying to
invent gin with theirs! ;-)

http://clem.mscd.edu/~grasse/GK_asentry.htm

The above URL is for one of Gwen-Cat's sites.  She is doing some English
translation of Marx Rumpoldt's Cookbook, and you can find Sabina Welser's
Cookbook, in English, Valoise Armstrong's translation at

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Medieval/Cookbooks/Sabrina_Welserin.html

A favorite Germanic use for them is in Sauerbraten.

Here's a recipe from the Rheinfrankisches Kochebuch, but I haven't passes
this one past Thomas yet, so I hope it's right.

37.  Willst du eine F¸llung zubereiten f¸r eine Gans, dann nimm eine
Gans, die jung und gut im Futter sein soll oder auch etwas ‰lter, und
hebe die Haut wie bei einem Huhn ab (so daﬂ zwischen Fleisch und Haut
Zwischenr‰ume f¸r die F¸llung entstehen).  Zerstoﬂe Knoblauch und Pfeffer
in einem Steinmˆrser, und f¸lle die Gans (unter der Haut) damit und auch
mit (ebensfalls zerkleinerten) Wacholderbeeren.  Stopfe diese F¸llung
auch ins Innere der Gans, und hacke (vorher) Speck dazu und gr¸ne, also
ungetrocknete Weinbeeren, soviel du mˆchtest, und f¸lle dann die Gans
damit.

If you wish to prepare a filling for a goose, then take a goose, that is
young and good in its feet [a method of telling how healthy the goose
was] or else also one a little older, and raise the skin as you do for a
hen, (so that between the flesh and the skin there is room for the
filling).  Pound garlic and pepper in a stone mortar, and fill the goose
with this and also with ground juniper berries.  Stuff this filling also
inside the goose, and chop bacon into it and green, fresh wine grapes, as
much as you want, and fill the goose with it.

>>Is there some reason people can't just pick them off their juniper
bushes? I can't stand even the smell of them myself, but they're common
landscaping plants around here.<<

I asked a neighbor who has a landscaping business.  He thought some
junipers might have poison berries, didn't know about mine.  You'd need
to investigate juniper species very carefully before trying this.

Allison,     allilyn at juno.com

Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 09:49:33 +0200 (MET DST)From: Par Leijonhufvud <parlei at algonet.se>Subject: Re: SC - juniper berries - longOn Mon, 22 May 2000 allilyn at juno.com wrote:> bushes? I can't stand even the smell of them myself, but they're common> landscaping plants around here.<<> > I asked a neighbor who has a landscaping business.  He thought some> junipers might have poison berries, didn't know about mine.  You'd need> to investigate juniper species very carefully before trying this.Juniperus communis is eminently edible. Remember that the berries(actually not berries, but a kind of "berry-cones") take three years toripen. Pick them when they are bluish black./UlfR- -- Par Leijonhufvud                                      parlei at algonet.se

Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:01:11 EDT
From: LrdRas at aol.com
Subject: Re: SC - juniper berries - long

allilyn at juno.com writes:
<< You'd need
 to investigate juniper species very carefully before trying this. >>

Are the berries cone like when viewed closely? There are a number of 
evergreens usually referred to as 'junipers' in the US that resemble true 
junipers in appearance but the berries are very different. 

True juniper has round smooth berries that a dark, almost black in 
appearance. The other juniper has berries that are scaled and have a light 
bluish powder on them throughtout most of the season.

You really don't have to be all that careful. True junipers are the source of 
the spice juniper berry. While the other is not. Any juniper that has smooth 
round dark berries is edible.

Ras

Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 12:25:04 -0700
From: "E. Rain" <raghead at liripipe.com>
Subject: Corianders  WAS : SC - Charlemagne + St. Gall

Balthazar asks about green coriander vs corander seed.  Apicius actually
uses both & specifies between the two.  "coriandrum viridium"  and
"coriandri semen".  I'm fairly certain I've seen fresh coriander (cilantro)
called for elsewhere as well (recently no less), but of course I cant recall
where at the moment and I've been looking at a LOT of books lately...

Eden

Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 21:44:02 -0700
From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Lavender/Spicanardi/Spikenard?

Clotild asked:
> Is spicanardi the same as spikenard?  Can lavender be substituted?

Francesco Sirene pipes up to assure her that spicanardi is the same thing as
spikenard, which definitely is *not* lavender. The confusion comes from the
fact that there is a variety of lavender known as "spike" lavender, which
may on occasion be known as spica or spike. But when the term "nard" in any
form comes in as part of the term, it is spikenard which is referred to, not
lavender. (And just coincidentally, we can supply the genuine stuff, if you
need some for that strange recipe -- actually, if anyone does have strange
recipes using spikenard, and can report on the results, we'd be interested
to hear).

Yours spicily,
Francesco
David Dendy / ddendy at silk.net
partner in Francesco Sirene, Spicer / sirene at silk.net
Visit our Website at http://www.silk.net/sirene/

Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 14:36:52 +0200
From: Thomas Gloning <gloning at Mailer.Uni-Marburg.DE>
Subject: SC - Lavender/Spicanardi/Spikenard?

Thanks Francesco/David for your clarification! However, I have an
additional question about [4] in your answer:

<< Francesco Sirene pipes up to assure her
[1] that spicanardi is the same thing as spikenard, 
[2] which definitely is *not* lavender.
[3] The confusion comes from the fact that there is a variety of
lavender known as "spike" lavender, which may on occasion be known as
spica or spike.
[4] But when the term "nard" in any form comes in as part of the term,
it is spikenard which is referred to, not lavender. >> [Numbers added]

Am I right to assume, that [4] is a statement about our modern language
use?

Is [4] true in respect to former centuries and to the expressions of
different languages, too? I am not so sure:

- -- Marzell treats the German expression "spike-narde" under Lavandula
latif. (I don't have the dictionary at hand, only the index vol.), and
the huge Deutsches Wˆrterbuch gives many examples where the expression
"spikenarde" is used to refer to lavender.
- -- In the herbal of Tabernaemontanus, it is said "daﬂ der Spicanard und
der Lavendel einander fast ‰hnlich und verwandt seyn" (that "Spicanard"
und "Lavendel" are very much alike and close relatives in various
respects) and that lavender was also called _Spicanardus foemina_
(_female Spicanardus_).
- -- The Dizionario etimologico della lingua italiana says that _spigo_
and _spigonardo_ meant 'lavanda', and in the entry _Lavanda_ they quote
a passage from the herbal of Matthiolus: "Toscanamente dicesi _spigo_"
(in the dialect of the Toscana, lavender is called _spigo_).
- -- The OED gives as meaning (3) of _spikenard_: "3. + a. Lavender. Obs.
(Cf. spike n.1 4.)
1563 T. Hill Art Garden. (1593) 94 Lauender is an hearbe sweet in
smelling; [and] for that it giueth no lesse sauor than the Spike, is of
the same named Spikenard.
1579 Langham Gard. Health (1633) 622 Spikenard (see Lauender).
1736 N. Bailey Household Dict. s.v., Spikenard or Lavender Spike."

Thus, it seems at least _possible_ to me, that in former centuries
people were refering to (some kind of) lavender, using terms like fr.
"espic", it. "spigo", "spico", "spigonardo", germ. "spikanarde" or engl.
"spikenard".

Am I missing something here?

Best,
Thomas

Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 09:23:40 -0700
From: Ron and Laurene Wells <tinyzoo at aracnet.com>
Subject: SC - Herbs in Pregnancy.

From: Korrin S DaArdain <korrin.daardain at juno.com>
>         Could someone tell me what herbs cause abortions? I know there is
>at least one, but I can't remember the name. I am putting on a small
>medieval feast for some friends and one of them is pregnant and I do not
>want to cause a miscarriage.

When one is pregnant, you should avoid Goldenseal (it reduces blood flow to 
the baby) and Pennyroyal (as it is an abortifactant).  Ginseng increases 
blood flow, but should be avoided by people who have heart conditions or 
high blood pressure (many women, myself included, get Pregnancy Induced 
Hypertension - PIH and so should avoid Ginseng for this reason.  High Blood 
Pressure reduces blood flow to the baby, and thus reduces the oxygen the 
baby receives).  There are other herbs that should be avoided in pregnancy 
also, but these are the most commonly available that I can think of at the 
moment.  Garlic can help reduce Blood Pressure in anyone, but particularly 
in pregnancy can also cause heartburn or gas.  It is worth a try 
though!  You usually know within 2 hours if it is going to bother you or 
not.    Nutmeg and clary sage are essential oils that should be avoided 
durning pregnancy as well, so I would reccommend going light on the nutmeg 
(though in it's spice form, the essential oil content is so low, that it is 
not as much to worry about - I know I had many cups of hot milk with honey, 
cinnamon, nutmeg and vanilla to help fight off the insomnia when I was 
pregnant!).  I don't really know of too many herbs that are used in cooking 
which would be harmful.  Most are herbs that people take for other reasons, 
like Goldenseal is a good antiviral.

Red Raspberry is an excellent herb for pregnancy, as it tones the uterus 
and increases the oxygen to the baby.  Red raspberry tea would be an 
excellent beverage to serve (though I personally do not know about it's 
authenticity as a Medival Herb, you'll have to ask the experts on that 
one).  Spearmint (which Spearmint OIL should not be used on babies for some 
reason - I never have found out why) is good for reducing nausea in 
pregnancy.  As is Ginger.

I can get out my herbal books and see what more detail I can find if you 
are interested?  This is what I know from memory.

God bless you!  Have fun with your feast!
- -Laurene

Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 09:43:12 -0700
From: Ron and Laurene Wells <tinyzoo at aracnet.com>
Subject: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2458

I'm sending this message both to the list and privately.  I probably should 
have sent the last one the same way, but didn't think about it until after 
I sent it off without the carbon copy.

From: CorwynWdwd at aol.com
>There's the rub... depending on the individual, most if not all herbs CAN
>cause an abortion... I've heard cautions against, hyssop, oregano, mints,
>cinnamon, ginger, marjoram, pennyroyal... you get the picture.

My Dr. reccomended Candied Ginger to help with Morning Sickness.  I have 
never heard of it CAUSING an abortion???  That is a new one.  Pennyroyal 
has long been known to be harmful.  I believe it can cause bleeding, which 
kills not only the baby, but can kill the mother also.  It would NOT be a 
fun thing!!!

Here is a link to THE BEST Medicinal Herbal that I have ever found.
http://www.dk.com/us/shared/product.asp?ISBN=156458187X

You can browse the complete book online (you can't with ALL the DK books, I 
guess I've just gotten lucky referencing the ones on topic here?) to find 
any other information you might think is relevant.

This is "The Encyclopedia of Herbs, Spices and Flavorings - a Cooks 
Compendium" by Elizabeth Lambert Ortiz.  As the title indicates, it is more 
related to cooking than to medicinal use, and is arranged quite differently.
http://www.dk.com/us/shared/product.asp?ISBN=1564580652

You can order either of these books online using reference number: 
us96659h, to get the Discounts.

Another great book on herbs is "The Encyclopedia of Herbs and Spices" By 
Sarah Garland (if I remember correctly).  I could never find the book for 
sale when I had the money, so I check it out from the library quite 
often.  I don't know the publisher.

- -Laurene

Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:26:07 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: SC - FRANKISH BRAISED BEEF

Phillipa asks:
>I saved this recipe when Clotild of Soissons posted it and now I have some
>questions if you please,
>
>1> Can humans eat catnip?  I thought it was poisonous for humans.  And
>anyway, I don't have catnip nor pennyroyal.  Never having tasted either, are
>there any suggestions on what to use to replace it?
>
>2> What is spiknard and costmary?  And never having tasted either what can I
>use to replace these flavors?

I will send what i've found in several posts, rather than one long one.

PART ONE: CATNIP AND PENNYROYAL

- --- CATNIP ---

Botanical Name: Nepeta cataria or Nepeta mussinii , Labiatae (mint family)
Common Names: catnep or catmint. French: chataire, Herbe aux Chats; 
Spanish: menta de gato, hierba gatera, nebeda.

Catnip is a grey-green, leafy member of the mint family, with downy, 
heart-shaped leaves that are green above and whitish below.. This 
hardy, robust perennial was originally grown throughout Europe, and 
was native to the dry regions of the Mediterranean, inland Europe, 
Asia, Eurasia and Africa. It has been used as a remedy for headaches, 
coughs, cold symptoms, as a sleeping aid, and to calm tension and 
anxiety.

Is is quite safe for human consumption.

- --- PENNYROYAL ---

Pennyroyal is also edible; i've drunk tea made of it, probably 
American Pennyroyal. The herb is generally considered safe to use in 
reasonable quantities, but in *very large* quantities it can cause 
contractions of the uterus, so pregnant women should avoid it. 
Whatever you do, DO NOT use Pennyroyal oil as an overdose can be 
fatal.

1. EUROPEAN PENNYROYAL

Botanical Name: Mentha Pulegium (LINN.), Family: N.O. Labiatae
Common Names: Pulegium. Run-by-the-Ground. Lurk-in-the-Ditch. Pudding 
Grass. Piliolerial.
Part Used: Herb.

 From Mrs. Grieve's Herbal:
This species of Mint, a native of most parts of Europe and parts of 
Asia, is the Pulegium of the Romans, so named by Pliny from its 
reputed power of driving away fleas - pulex being the Latin for flea, 
hence the Italian pulce and the French puce. This name given the 
plant in ancient times has been retained as its modern specific name. 
It is sometimes known to the country-people as 'Run by the Ground' 
and 'Lurk in the Ditch,' from its manner of growth.

It was formerly much used in medicine, the name Pennyroyal being a 
corruption of the old herbalists' name 'Pulioll-royall' (Pulegium 
regium), which we meet also in the Middle Ages as 'Piliole-rial.' It 
has been known to botanists since the time of Linnaeus as Mentha 
Pulegium.

One of its popular names is 'Pudding Grass,' from being formerly used 
in stuffings for hog's puddings ('grass' being, like 'wort,' a word 
simply meaning 'herb'). It is still used abroad in various culinary 
preparations, but in this country it is now in disuse, as its taste 
and odour is too pronounced.

2. AMERICAN PENNYROYAL

In North America, there's a native plant that is called Pennyroyal, 
but is not quite the same thing used in Europe. So be sure you know 
the botanical name of what you get.

Botanical Name: Hedeoma pulegioides (L.) Pers.
Common names: Mock Pennyroyal. Squaw Mint. Squaw Balm. Stinking Balm. 
Tickweed. Mosquito plant.

The entire herb has a strong mintlike odor and pungent taste.

- ---------------------

Since both Catnip and both Pennyroyals are mints, you could 
substitute mint for each of them, although it certainly wouldn't 
taste exactly the same. In my experience, mint tastes stronger than 
both catnip and pennyroyal. But catnip shouldn't be hard to find :-)

If you do use mint, use much less than the recipe calls for. I 
believe that the fresh mint found in markets is usually spearmint. 
While i really dislike the taste of spearmint dried, i don't mind the 
flavor of fresh mint.

Anahita

Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:32:38 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: SC - FRANKISH BRAISED BEEF

PART TWO

Phillipa asks:
>2> What is spiknard and costmary?  And never having tasted either what can I
>use to replace these flavors?

- --- COSTMARY ---
Costmary is a green herb, but i've never eaten any that i know of, so 
i can't describe the taste.

* Botanical Name: OLD: Tanacetum balsamita (LINN.), Family: N.O. 
Compositae NEW: Chrysanthemum balsamita OR Compositae Chrysanthemum 
majus (Desf.)

* Vernacular Names: Alecost. Balsam Herb. Balsamita. (French) Herbe 
Sainte-Marie. Mint geranium. Bible Leaf because its long fragrant 
leaves were used as bookmarks.

* Part Used: Leaves.

* Uses: The leave are sweet-scented but somewhat bitter tasting. One 
web page describes the scent thus "The leaves emit a powerful aroma 
of menthol, lemon and sage." Grieve says: "On account of the aroma 
and taste of its leaves, Costmary was much used to give a spicy 
flavouring to ale - whence its other name, Alecost. The fresh leaves 
were also used in salads and in pottage, and dried are often put into 
pot-pourri, as they retain their aroma."

For photo see:
http://www.belgianexperts.com/costmary.htm

- -----

Spikenard to follow...

Anahita

Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:59:54 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: Re: SC - FRANKISH BRAISED BEEF

PART THREE

Phillipa asks:
>2> What is spiknard and costmary?  And never having tasted either what can I
>use to replace these flavors?

The root is the part that is used. There are several plants go by the 
name "spikenard", so you'd have to keep alert. Here's what else i've 
been able to find about Spikenard.

- --- SPIKENARD ---

1. INDIAN SPIKENARD:

It has a long somewhat mythic history as an ancient Biblical scent. 
Apparently it also has a reputation as an aphrodesiac...

Botanical name: Nardostachys jatamansi and Nardostachys, Family Valeriananceae

Other Names: Nard. False Indian Valerian.

The following details come from
http://www.therapure.com/yleo/spikenard.htm

Aroma Characteristics: A peaty, earthy, animal-like fragrance 
reminiscent of goats.

History: In India, Spikenard was highly regarded as a perfume, 
medicinal herb, and as a skin tonic. It was also prized in the Middle 
East during the time of Christ, and there are several passages in the 
Bible referring to spikenard. In the Song of Solomon spikenard 
appears in Chapter 1 verse 12, and Chapter 4 verses 13-1: "While the 
king sitteth at his table, my spikenard sendeth forth the smell 
thereof." Spikenard is also the herb used by Mary of Bethany to 
anoint the feet of Jesus before the Last Supper: "then took Mary a 
pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of 
Jesus" (John 12:3). In a passage of the Gospel of St. Mark, another 
woman anoints the head of Jesus with spikenard: "And being in Bethany 
in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a 
woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; 
and she brake the box, and poured it on his head" (Mark 14:3).

Roman perfumers used the essential oil of spikenard to prepare 
nardinum, a scented oil of great renown during ancient times. The 
Mughal empress, Nur Jehan, also deployed spikenard in her 
rejuvenating cosmetic preparations.

The oil is known for being helpful for allergic skin reactions, and 
according to Victoria Edwards, "The oil redresses the skin's 
physiological balance and causes permanent regeneration."

 From another webpage:

History: Spikenard is one of the early aromatics used by the ancient 
Egyptians and is mentioned in the Song of Solomon in the Bible.  It 
is also the herb that Mary used to anoint Jesus before the Last 
Supper.  The oil was also used by the Roman perfumers in the 
preparation of nardinum, one of their most celebrated scented oils, 
and by the Mughal empress Nur Jehan in her rejuvenating cosmetic 
preparations.  It was also a herb known to Dioscorides as 'warming 
and drying', good for nausea, flatulent indigestion, menstrual 
problems, inflammations and conjunctivitis.  The perfume is actually 
in the lower hairy stems (the Indian name jatamansi refers to the 
shaggy hair, or 'ermine tails', covering the stems).

Several other pages describes the fragrance as a heavy sweet-woody, 
spicy-animal odour, somewhat similar to valerian oil.

2. AMERICAN SPIKENARD

It is hardly likely that this is what is used in a Medieval European recipe.

Botanical Name: Aralia racemosa (LINN.), Family: N.O. Araliaceae

Vernacular Names: American Spikenard. Spignet. Life of Man. 
Pettymorell. Old Man's Root. Indian Spikenard. Indian Root.

Part Used: Root.

 From Mrs. Grieve's Herbal:
Description---The much-branched stem grows from 3 to 6 feet high. 
Very large leaves, consisting of thin oval heart-shaped, double 
saw-toothed leaflets. Small greenish flowers in many clusters - 
blooming later than Aralia medicaulis (for which it is often 
substituted), July to August. Has roundish red-brown berries going 
dark purple. Root-stock thick and large, spicy and aromatic. Fracture 
of cortex short, of the wood also short and fibrous. Odour aromatic, 
taste mucilaginous, pungent and slightly acrid. Transverse section of 
root shows thick bark, several zones containing oil. The plant grows 
freely in the author's garden.

- --------

So there are two different Spikenards. I can't tell you from personal 
experience what the most significant differences are. Some vendors do 
not make clear the distinction between the two. So it helps to know 
the botanical name.

Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:05:34 -0700
From: Susan Fox-Davis <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Re: sca-cooks V1 #2587

Nisha Martin wrote:
> If you get the chance to taste pennyroyal, do (unless you're pregnant,
> of course.  Better safe than sorry.)
>
> Yes, it's definately an herb to avoid during
> pregnancy. It is an old herbal remedy to start a
> sluggish period, and in enough quantity can produce a
> miscarriage. Tansy is another to avoid during
> pregnancy, for the same reason
> Nisha

I got very, very sick taking too much pennyroyal and tansy once.  Let's just say
I was young and stupid.  Nausea that wouldn't stop, and as it turned out I
wasn't pregnant anyway.  Pennyroyal does have a very nice taste, but I've no
taste for it anymore.

Selene

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 17:29:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Jenne Heise <jenne at mail.browser.net>
Subject: Re: Paprika and Oregano (was Re: SC - Pumpkins and such...)
 
> this may be a silly question, but what's the difference (besides where they
> come from, of course) between Hungarian Paprika and Spanish Paprika and
> between "Mexican Oregano" and what is normally labled simply as "Oregano"
> in the spice section of the grocery store.

'Mexican oregano' is a plant of the Mint family; 'oregano' is the greek or
italian stuff, actually 'wild marjoram' or 'oregany' in period texts.
- -- 
Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise	      jenne at tulgey.browser.net

From: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:47:47 -0500 (EST)
To: SCA-Cooks maillist <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] A silly question

> He(?) also says:
> Oregano is hardier than majoram and consequently enjoys a wider
> distribution.  Majoram sticks close to the Mediterranean basin, where
> it was born. Oregano penetrates even into quite cool areas of the
> temperate zone; it grows wild in England, for instance. When it first
> appeared there in 1597, John Gerard called it in his _Herball_,
> "Bastard Majerome of Candy," that is, of Ceylon.

Let me check Bancke's Herbal of 1512, which mentions oregany. I think the
Bastard Majerome of Candy was a special cultivar.

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa

Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 14:31:31 +1000
From: "Jones, Craig" <Craig.Jones at airservices.gov.au>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] Re: Sca-cooks digest, Vol 1 #2322/Rhachitis
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
Organization: Airservices Australia

>      Is 'angelica archangelica' the herb angelica??  Nothing was
> capitalized in the text, so I am not clear if this is a Latin name.
> (Trying to get some food content in--)

Yes.  I have a vague recollection that it grows like a weed in a
Greenland spring and was eaten as a vegetable.  But importantly,
Angelica Archangelica is the herb Angelica.  Be careful when buying it
at a plant nursery because there is another related medicinal - Angelica
sinensis (Chinese Angelica) which is often sold too.

Drake.

Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 19:23:04 -0400
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: "Phil Troy/ G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius.magister at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Lovage and Rue

Also sprach lilinah at earthlink.net:
> Lovage
>
> Many of the Roman recipes i'm looking at call for lovage as a green
> herb. While i may be able to turn up lovage seeds, i doubt i'll be
> able to find it fresh.
>
> It has been suggested that modern cooks substitute celery leaves for
> lovage leaves. Does anyone have experience using actual fresh lovage?
> And if yes, can you verify this substitution?

I've worked with dried lovage, anyway. It's pretty darned close.
There's a variety of celery you sometimes see in Chinese groceries
which is mostly leaf with a skinny stalk; that's even closer.

Adamantius

Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 00:02:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Growing Herbs
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> Use sweet woodruff sparingly; it contains coumarin, if I remember 
> right, which is a carcinogen.

Ah, but it makes an excellent strewing herb (and is good in potpourris and sachets if you do them...)

-- Pani Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika   jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 12:52:18 -0400
From: Daniel Myers <edouard at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] plea for help-- Soup for the Qan
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 11:52  AM, <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
wrote:
>> Does asafoetida have binding properties to it? (Like cracker meal, or
>> eggs or something)
>
> Well, asafoetida is a resin, so it might have some binding properties....
> But I'd be sceptical it was enough.

Especially considering how asafoetida is incredibly potent.  I can't
imagine anyone using more than a pinch of it in anything.  We keep the
jars of that stuff sealed in plastic bags so it doesn't ... um ...
alter the flavor of the spices in the nearby jars.

- Doc
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   Daniel Myers
   http://www.thegoatinthegarden.com/

Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:20:07 -0400
From: Daniel Myers <edouard at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] plea for help-- Soup for the Qan
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Thursday, October 2, 2003, at 12:03  AM, Maggie MacDonald wrote:
> No asafoetida, and the clerks had no idea of what i was talking about.

We sell asafoetida at The Goat in the Garden's web site.
http://www.thegoatinthegarden.com

- Doc 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   Daniel Myers

Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:38:4 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Pixel, Goddess and Queen" <pixel at hundred-acre-wood.com>
Subject: Pennyroyal (was Re: [Sca-cooks] Period or no?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, Robin Carroll-Mann wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Maggie MacDonald <maggie5 at cox.net>
> Theres always a nice barley pottage, with whatever root veggies you want to
> add. Enrich it with onion soup, garlic broth, or whatever.
> -------------------------------
>
> I just tried one of the recipes in Henry Marks' book on Byzantine 
> cooking.  Most of them are conjectural, since they are based on 
> descriptions of food, and monastery menus, but this one is pretty 
> straight forward.
>
> To paraphrase, the original description says to cook lentils in water 
> with barley, leeks, dill, oil, and vinegar; and if you desire, savory 
> or pennyroyal.  (As pennyroyal can be unsafe, Marks substitutes mint, 
> which is in the same family.)  Use less barley than lentils, so they 
> don't absorb all the liquid.

Just as a note, pennyroyal, though in the mint family, does not actually
taste like mint. I used to use pennyroyal tea for migraines (and we can
argue relative toxicity later) and it tastes more woody and not really
minty. Kind of like thyme, actually. I want to say it tastes like oregano
would if you took out all the strong oregano flavor, but that probably
makes very little sense to most people.

So one is probably better off leaving it out rather than substituting mint
for pennyroyal, at least if you're going for something that tastes 
right.

Margaret FitzWilliam

Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:20:43 -0800
From: renart the fox <renart at centurytel.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period mention or use of catnip?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

On 12/29/2004 04:09:04 PM, Stefan li Rous wrote:
> Maire commented:
>> Mac, my orange/marmalade/ginger kitty, says to tell everyone that he
>> scored multiple presents involving catnip, so he's a happy boy! ;o) He
>> figures that since it's an herb, and he eats it, it's safe to mention
>> on the list!
> Which begs the question, Was catnip mentioned in period? Was it
> mentioned in connection with cats? Or is there some other use of this
> herb which has now gone out style or has been submerged in the idea
> of giving it to your pet cat?

The following links give some insight towards catnip (Nepeta cataria)
and its uses in the Middle Ages.

http://www.penmarric.ns.ca/catcare/usefulinfo/catnip.htm

http://www.englishplants.co.uk/catmint.html

http://norcrossws.org/norcross/Herb/medicinalbed.htm
-- 
Renart (the fox) of Berwick

Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:10:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Samrah <auntie_samrah at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Catnip - probably more information than you would
	like	to know
To: Cooks within te SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I maintain a personal herbal for use at events, home, etc. It is done 
in periodish style, a bit more organized tan most herbals in period, 
with goodly sized computerized calligraphy and duty free period 
illustrations. As it is not a research paper or designed for 
competition, the information in this volume is not specifically 
footnoted. I do have a solid biblioraphy, but at this point to 
footnote specific facts would not be time-efficient. Please note that 
to insure the most accurate information, most of my sources are 
current-day.

With that qualification, Hope this helps ~ Samrah

CATNIP Nepeta cataria

Alo known as: Mentioned by Gerard as "Catmint", although there are 
also plants called catmint.

Description: Hardy perennial with sprawling stems and fine toothed 
leaves covered with white downy-like fuzz and white or pink flowers. 
Grows up to three feet tall and two feet wide. Its fragrance is said to 
resemble a combination of Camphor, Thyme & Pennyroyal.

Notes: The infamous stuffing for catnip mice, but did you know that the 
same herb that keys kittens up, winds children down and calms upset 
tummies? The genus name may be derived from the Roman town of Nepti, 
where catnip was said to grow profusely. Routinely grown in the Gardens 
of the Cloisters (NY Met Museum recreation of period garden).

Properties*: Colds, flu, insomnia, stress, indigestion, andruff, 
bruises & joint pain.

Uses: Salads, teas, stews & roasts. Famous for use in cat toys and also 
deters insects.

*It is not the intent of the author to diagnose or prescribe. This 
information for reference and historical interest only.

Bibliogaphy (complete book specifics available upon request)

Bremess (editor), Herbs, 1990.
Edinger & Eyre, Herbs - An Illustrated Guide, 1994.
Lathrop, Herbs - How to Select, Grow & Enjoy, 1981.
Lawless, The Encyclopedia of Essential Oils, 1992.
Ody, The Cmplete Medicinal Herbal,1993.
Oster, Ortho's All About Herbs, 1999.
Tierra, Planetary Herbology, 1988.
Woodward (editor), Gerard's Herbal, 1994.

Much communication from Paige North at the Cloisters Gardens of the New 
York Met. Museum.

Some facts were also verified by the New Encyclopedia Britannica, 1998.

Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:52:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Stanifer <jugglethis at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period mention or use of catnip?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Oh, by the way.... the website I went to seems to indicate that there is evidence of catnip uses throughout history, but does not give sources.  Here is the citation, both historical AND on topic...

"Herbalists have used catnip for many centuries as a treatment for colic, headache, fever, toothache, colds, and spasms. Catnip is an excellent sleep-inducing agent (as with valerian, in certain individuals it acts as a stimulant). Both people and cats find catnip to be emetic in large doses. It exhibits antibacterial properties and may be useful as an anti-atherosclerotic
agent. It is used as an adjunct in treated dysmenorrhea and is given in tincture form to aid amenorrhea. 15th century English cooks would rub catnip leaves on meats before cooking and add it to mixed green salads. Before Chinese tea became widely available, catnip tea was very popuar."

William de Grandfort

Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 01:43:11 -0500
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Catnip - probably more information than you
	would	like to know
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

From Platina, on calamint:
What is called nepeta [calamint] in our popular language the Greeks call
calaminthe. It is of great strenght and powerful in heat, whence it
deserves to be ascribed to the very best antidotes, for it is considered
useful to stomach and chese, loosens and purges phlegm of head and
thorax, heals the liver, destroys hardness of the spleen, drives out
stone, and moves the urine. Not only alone but also with other herbs, it
is very beneficial for those thigns we have mentioned when it has been
pounded and sieved and crushed.
-- 
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net 

Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:13:20 -0500
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] period mention or use of catnip?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Ok this is from Hildegarde of Bingen's Physica:
"Catnip (nebetta) is hot. A person with scrofula, which has not yet
ruptured, on his neck should pulverize catnip. He should often eat this
powder with bread or in a puree, or in little cakes, and the scrofula
will vanish If the pustules are broken, place fresh, uncooked catnip
leaves over them. the scrofula will dry up."
--  
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net  

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:48:22 -0600
From: "Lisa" <silvina at allegiance.tv>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite herb books
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

>>>
> I'd like to use a book store gift certificate to improve my herb book
> resources.  I'd like ones that are thorough and have good details for edible
> or medicinal herbs.  Info on dye herbs would be a bonus! What are your
> favorites?
>
> Sharon
<<<

In my opinion your best bet is an Encyclopedia of herbs.  I have two,
Encyclopedia of Herbs by Deni Bown
The illustrated herb encyclopedia by Kathi Keville

They tend to have historical uses, medical uses, aromatherapy uses, etc, and
if I remember correctly, dye uses is also included.  The one by Deni Brown
is newer and has more herbs listed.

Elizabeta of Rundel

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 22:55:02 -0500
From: "Radei Drchevich" <radei at moscowmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite herb books
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

> I'd like to use a book store gift certificate to improve my herb book
> resources.  I'd like ones that are thorough and have good details for
> edible or medicinal herbs.  Info on dye herbs would be a bonus! What are  
> your favorites?
>
> Sharon

try "The Complete Medicinal Herbal" by Penelope Ody
ISBN: 1-56458-187-x

Is one of the better ones in my collection

radei

Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 23:04:41 -0500
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite herb books
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

   A Dyer's Garden by Rita Buchanan
Not just period dyes, although many are.

Ranvaig

> I'd like to use a book store gift certificate to improve my herb book
> resources.  I'd like ones that are thorough and have good details for edible
> or medicinal herbs.  Info on dye herbs would be a bonus! What are your
> favorites?

Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:16:13 EST
From: CorwynWdwd at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Favorite herb books
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

> I'd like to use a book store gift certificate to improve my herb  book
> resources.  I'd like ones that are thorough and have good  details for
> edible or medicinal herbs.  Info on dye herbs would be a  bonus!  
> What are your favorites?

The Herb Book by John Lust. I have several printings. Every now and  
then  he updates and adds more information.

Corwyn

Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 01:38:59 -0400
From: Suey <lordhunt at gmail.com>
Subject: Subject: Re: arugula..was Re: [Sca-cooks] Recipes
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

That is why I added "maybe", because I wasn't sure if arugula was  
rocket or not.

There is no need for "maybe" arugula is /Eruca vesicaria/, i.e.  
rocket. It is an herb
no longer  in use today, except in rural areas. It is an annual  
native of Asia and Southern Europe. It was cultivated in all medieval  
gardens on the Mediterranean during the Middle Age. It seems to have  
been unknown in France
and England. The plant contains jamba oil, used initially for making  
pickles. After six months the oil loses its acrid taste and is then  
used for cooking, as a lubricant and for burning. Young leaves,  
having a sharp hot taste, were eaten in salads and
used to season stews. The salads were well liked in the 15^th  C.  
Rocket is diuretic used to relieve stomach upsets; rubbed on skin it  
causes local reddening. Like mustard, rocket was thought to be hot and  
excited one to perform lechery.

Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:25:29 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Chickweed pie
To: "Christiane" <christianetrue at earthlink.net>,	"Cooks within the
	SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Gerard gives chickweed as a cure for mange (IIRC).  If it appears in Swiss
or German recipes, it will probably be as Huhnerdarm, Vogelmuur or
Sternmiere.

Bear

> I was in Lancaster County, Pa., this past weekend and I picked up a book of
> Pennsylvania Dutch cooking at the Landis Valley Museum. It's William Woys
> Weaver's book.
>
> I am wondering as the origins of this recipe, which is essentially a
> quiche made with eggs, sour cream, pieces of bacon fried crisp, onions,
> cinnamon, and the chickweed of course. Since settlers in the region came
> from a wide swathe of Germany as well as Switzerland, I wondered if there
> was a tradition of cooking with chickweed in any of these regions and how
> far back that went. I am not assuming the pie is a period recipe, just
> wondering if there was chickweed used in medieval German/Swiss  
> cooking.
>
> Gianotta

Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 02:35:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Period Chicken Salad
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

According to the Oxford Companion to Food, Safflower, Carthamus tinctorius, a plant of West Asia, which is a member of the sunflower and thistle family, and  
resembles a thistle with deep orange flowers.  These flowers yield orange and red dyes which were in use from very early times (witness a mention in an Egyptian inscription of 3000 BC).

Even in early times safflower was also used in cookery as an adulterant of, or substitute for, the much more expensive saffron; hence many common names such as  
'bastard saffron'.

+++++++

So, no, safflower isn't a new world plant.

Huette

--- Anne-Marie Rousseau <dailleurs at liripipe.com> wrote:
> Isn't safflower a new world plant, related to the sunflower?
>
> --AM

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 18:10:03 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Feb 28, 2007, at 5:47 PM, Ian Kusz wrote:

> Does anyone here have experience with using asafoetida as a spice? I've
> read some warnings, and wanted to know what "kind" of food they use
> it in, if any.

It's used extensively in Indian cookery, probably most often in fish
dishes. Maybe you could do a Web search for "hing powder" and find
some pretty standard recipes calling for it. Tastes a little like a
mixture of musk and garlic, to me.

Adamantius

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 18:24:50 -0500
From: Daniel Myers <edoard at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Feb 28, 2007, at 5:47 PM, Ian Kusz wrote:
> Does anyone here have experience with using asafoetida as a spice? I've
> read some warnings, and wanted to know what "kind" of food they use
> it in, if any.

For a medieval English example, Katherine Seymour Hertford's
commonplace book calls for treating toothaches with asafoetida:

Ffor the Ache of a hollow toothe

Take Asfa Ffetyda and put yt
on the tothe that ys hollow and yt wi[ll]
apease and take awaye the ache

[The commonplace book of Countess Katherine Seymour Hertford (1567)
http://www.medievalcookery.com/notes/mscodex823.txt ]

- Doc 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
   Edouard Halidai  (Daniel Myers)
   Pasciunt, mugiunt, confidiunt.

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:58:06 -0800
From: Maggie MacDonald <maggie5 at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

At 02:47 PM 2/28/2007,Ian Kusz said something like:
> Does anyone here have experience with using asafoetida as a spice? I've
> read some warnings, and wanted to know what "kind" of food they use  
> it in, if any.
>
> Ian of Oertha

Soup for the Qan called for asafoetida in the Fishball recipe, the
ingredients were: large carp (skined, boned), sheeps tail (minced), fresh
ginger, onions, pepper, mandarin orange peel, black pepper, and kasni
(asafoetida).

It was a yummy recipe, and it had fussy eaters asking for more (which
quietly boggled me at the time).

Maggie MacD.

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:19:55 -0800
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On 2/28/07 2:47 PM, "Ian Kusz" <sprucebranch at gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone here have experience with using asafoetida as a spice?  I've
> read some warnings, and wanted to know what "kind" of food they use  
> it in, if any.
>
> Ian of Oertha

Primarily used in Southern Asian cuisine these days;  India, Pakistan.  It
shares some vague similarity of bouquet with garlic, so the same sorts of
dishes in which you would use garlic.  Good for people with  
sensitivity to alliums.

Use in very small amounts at first or you will really get the full  
impact of the "foetid" part of the name.

Selene Colfox, Caid

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 22:40:22 -0300
From: Suey <lordhunt at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Ian Kusz wrote:
> Does anyone here have experience with using asafoetida as a  
> spice? . . . wanted to know what "kind" of food they use
> it in, if any.

     Asafoetida, also called the Devil's dung. It is extracted from
silphium root. I am not sure whether some of my notes refer to silphium
or the extracts from the root: asafoetida, resin, juice or gum. The
Roman text and those of the ancients cite it as "silphium". The Ancients
added "it" to food in small quantities to give it a fragrant effect. Too
much spoils the food. Romans used "it" as a condiment as much as
liquamen. It is thought that "it" was used for its aphrodisiac effect
and was used in food prepared for banquets especially. Apicius calls for
silphium root in his recipes while Flower uses asafoetida when trying
them. She indicates that it must be used sparingly but states that the
flavor is delicious. She recommends it for fish especially. In North
Africa "it" was grown especially in Cyrene where "it" was cultivated for
export. There "it" was used in medicine and in cooking.  The Anonymous
Al-Andalus 13th Century Cookbook calls for it in "Tabahaja," a dish of
fried goat's meat. Today several Middle Eastern recipes call for
asafoetida. [An?nimo/Huici.1966:250:149; Apicius/Flower. 1958:28-29; ES:
Anonymous/Perry. Sep 5, 02 and Pullar. 1970:242]

     Unfortunately I have not had time yet to review Flower's translation
to see what recipes call for it.  I have no data on medieval cookery in
North African or on modern Middle Eastern recipes as I do not handle
those subjects.

Suey

Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 22:19:40 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Feb 28, 2007, at 8:40 PM, Suey wrote:

> Apicius calls for silphium root in his recipes while Flower uses
> asafoetida when trying
> them. She indicates that it must be used sparingly but states that the
> flavor is delicious. She recommends it for fish especially. In North
> Africa "it" was grown especially in Cyrene where "it" was
> cultivated for
> export. There "it" was used in medicine and in cooking.  The Anonymous
> Al-Andalus 13th Century Cookbook calls for it in "Tabahaja," a dish of
> fried goat's meat. Today several Middle Eastern recipes call for
> asafoetida. [An?nimo/Huici.1966:250:149; Apicius/Flower.
> 1958:28-29; ES:
> Anonymous/Perry. Sep 5, 02 and Pullar. 1970:242]
>     Unfortunately I have not had time yet to review Flower's translation
> to see what recipes call for it.  I have no data on medieval cookery in
> North African or on modern Middle Eastern recipes as I do not handle
> those subjects.

Here's what Flower and Rosenbaum have to say on laserpitium (the term
I believe most often appearing in Apicius) in the introduction to
their 1958 edition of De Re Coquinaria:

> Finally, at least a word must be said about the famous silphium,
> also called laserpitium and laser. Pliny has devoted a long chapter
> to this herb (XIX, 3, 15 if. (38 ff.)). From him and Theophrastus
> (Hist. plant. VI, 3) we gain a great deal of information about it.
> The silphium grew in abundance in Cyrenaica, and was one of the
> chief exports of that province. It had become a kind of symbol of
> Cyrenaica, so that it appears on the coins of Cyrene, and even on
> reliefs. But in spite of all this no one has been able to identify
> the plant. In fact, it was already extinct in Cyrenaica in Pliny's
> time. He says that only a small quantity could be discovered under
> Nero, and this was sent to him. Otherwise it was only from Persia,
> Armenia, and Media that silphium was still imported, but this was
> of far inferior quality to that of Cyrenaica. The silphium from
> Cyrenaica was apparently expensive even when it was still grown in
> great quantities. Pliny mentions that under the consulate of C.
> Valerius and M. Herennius B.c.) thirty pounds of silphium were sent
> to Rome and given to the State.
>
> Although the identity of the Cyrenaican silphium cannot be
> established, that of the Persian variety is fairly certain: it was
> most probably the asafoetida, also called Devil's dung. This plant
> has retained its importance in the Middle East to this day, and it
> is used for pharmaceutical purposes also in the north.
>
> We know from Pliny that the juice of both the stem and the root was
> used. Its costliness is well illustrated by our recipe I, x: how to
> make an ounce of silphium last. The Cyrenaican variety is mentioned
> expressly only twice in our book; usually it simply prescribes
> 'laser.' Apicius himself may still have known and used the
> Cyrenaican silphium, but our late fourth or early fifth?century
> compiler could only have known the Persian or Armenian varieties.
>
> In recipes where laser is prescribed we have used asafoetida
> extract obtainable at chemists. It is very strong, and must be used
> with the utmost caution. The tiniest drop gives just enough
> flavour. If more than a minute quantity is taken the entire dish
> may be spoiled. But, used with care, it gives a delicious flavour,
> especially in combination with fish.

Adamantius

Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 09:58:05 -0500
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

>     Asafoetida, also called the Devil's dung. It is extracted from
> silphium root. I am not sure whether some of my notes refer to silphium
> or the extracts from the root: asafoetida, resin, juice or gum. The
> Roman text and those of the ancients cite it as "silphium".

Er... True silphium went extinct during the Roman period during the
first century CE; a number of Roman texts refer to this fact. Asafoetida
was later used as a substitute, but it was still considered inferior.
-- 
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net 

Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 10:32:01 -0500
From: "Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius" <adamantius1 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question
To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net,	Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Mar 1, 2007, at 9:58 AM, Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise wrote:

>>     Asafoetida, also called the Devil's dung. It is extracted from
>> silphium root. I am not sure whether some of my notes refer to
>> silphium
>> or the extracts from the root: asafoetida, resin, juice or gum. The
>> Roman text and those of the ancients cite it as "silphium".
>
> Er... True silphium went extinct during the Roman period during the
> first century CE; a number of Roman texts refer to this fact.
> Asafoetida
> was later used as a substitute, but it was still considered inferior.

Flower and Rosenbaum seem to share this view, more or less. I don't
think it's as much matter of true versus non-true silphium, as
different varieties (which may or may not be the same species, 1st-
century taxonomy being what it was) being considered superior to
others. Kinda like Umbrian black truffles being considered inferior
to those from Perigord. I gather that the "true" silphium is the
Cyrenaican variety, but that Armenian and Persian silphium, which
were apparently what was used when the Cyrenaican variety became
unavailable, were probably asafoetida. However, there's no way to
tell, in theory, at least during the "known academic time" between,
say, Pliny the Elder and F&R in 1958, what Cyrenaican silphium really
was... one of the cool subplots of Lindsey Davis' "Two For The Lions"
is Marcus Didius Falco's trip to North Africa with his brother-in-law-
to-be, embarked on a get-rich-quick scheme involving a search for
rumored Cyrenaican silphium growing wild among the rocks.

Now, in the mean time, I have, somewhere on the morass of my desk, a
packet of seeds alleged to be of whatever modernly-identified plant
species laserpitium actually was. I don't know if it's simply
asafoetida or what, but I recall there was some discussion here a
year or two ago, and someone (I think, Bear?) mentioned that laser had
been rediscovered, this was its modern botanical name, and I found a
place to order the seeds from. Hopefully there's more info on the
seed packet (I think I have about a half-ounce of tiny little seeds).

So, who will help me grow silphium, asked the Little Red Hen?
Assuming I can locate the seeds. Our balcony doesn't get that much
sun, and any plants we grow are more or less under squirrel siege
24-7...

Adamantius

Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 13:54:04 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] true silphium laserpitium was herb seasoning
	question
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I would recommend Andrew Dalby's account
in his book Dangerous Tastes the Story of Spices.
He covers both the extinct Silphium on pages 17-19
and later Asafoetida or hing on pages 110 - 112.
Oh and the book reproduces plates from a 1712 work that
first showed how the sap was gathered.

For an entry with a picture of the true variety from actual
Ancient Greek coins from Cyrenaika
see http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/Silphion.html
Most recent mention that I could locate was:
Also see http://www.slate.com/id/2159800/   where just a
couple of weeks ago Slate mentioned that silphium was associated
with the Valentine's Day heart.
Also see
http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html? 
id=aa128e68-c333-49a4-905f-3eb0f24e2334&k=13003

There are also several mentions in the Florilegium from times past.

Johnna

Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 22:39:43 -0600
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise wrote:
>
>> Er... True silphium went extinct during the Roman period during the
>> first century CE; a number of Roman texts refer to this fact.  Asafoetida
>> was later used as a substitute, but it was still considered inferior.
>
> You have me stuck here. I thought asafoetida was extracted from
> silphium. So I  can't understand texts saying it was extinct during  
> the 1st C CE.
>
> Suey

Asafoetida is extracted from a number of plants in genus Ferula, primarily
Ferula asafoetida (L.).  F. asafoetida is believed to be the laser parthicum
which replaced silphium in Roman cooking.

Silphium, a Roman variant of the Greek silphion, is considered to be an
extinct species of Ferula.  The Romans referred to the plant as laser or
laserpicium.  IIRC, Pliny describes the overgrazing and harvesting practices
that made the plant extinct.  The last plant harvested was sent to the
Emperor Nero.

There is scientific speculation that silphium is F. tingitana, which is a
nearly extinct species that is making a comeback in North Africa, but the
evidence is inconclusive.

Bear

Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 18:28:43 -0800
From: "Ian Kusz" <sprucebranch at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herb seasoning question
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Are the seeds heart-shaped?  According the Cyrenican coin, they were  
on the actual silphium plant.

And according to my limited understanding, asafoetida was used
interchangably with "proper" silphium, thus the confusion.  REAL silphium
was considered superior, though; asafoetida was considered a less-expensive
(and inferior) substitute.

the "spice" is supposedly the resin from the plant; it becomes hard, and has
to be grated.  Conversely, nowadays, it's usually ground and mixed with an
agent like rice flour to keep it granular.

Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 20:40:05 -0400
From: Suey <lordhunt at gmail.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Aloe
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Avenzoar (1091-1161) said:
     "It is hot and dry; it dries excessive moisture in the stomach,
strengthens and fortifies this organ and is useful against nauseas
produced by an excess of moisture. It improves the breath, is beneficial
for the liver, it makes the urine flow and rids the stomach of excess
moisture and the rest of the body.

     "If used by a patient with too much saliva, it disappears. It is
extraordinarily beneficial for the elderly, hemiplegics and all those
with a corporal humor that is too humid.

     "Its fundamental property is the following: it strengthens the
sensitiveness of the mind, sharpening it and for that it is beneficial
in cases of difficulties of perceptiveness as in [those who suffer from
it among] the elderly and hemiplegics. Further it ties the residues of
excessive moisture existing in the stomach and the rest of the  
organism."

     I started researching aloe in Texas when visiting my college
roommate who always has the plant on hand. Her man told me that once she
burned herself very badly in the oven. He asked what he could he do to
help her. She told him to cut part of a leaf or whatever you call those
cactus things and apply the gue to the burn. He kept doing that and she
was cured in no time.

     After that he started drinking aloe water. It cured his very severe
psychosis. I followed suit drinking a gallon a day for four months. I
have not had any bouts with eczema and psychosis since and believe me my
eczema was bad. This year I had two ulcers due to pain medications and
started drinking a cup a day. My doctor cannot believe I was cured
faster than any patient he has ever had before and he is 62 years old!

     From the times of Avenvoar  in Spain who appears to have been a
primary promoter of aloe Hispano-Arabs kept fast fields of it in
Andalusia. Fernando the Catholic camped in aloe fields during the
campaign to conquer Granada from them and his physicians used aloe to
cure the wounds of his soldiers. In the end it is said that King Ferdi
burned the fields, don't ask me why, and the multi-uses for aloe
supposedly became ashes buried with so many facets of Hispano-Muslim
medical history.

     Yes, it seems that in the 1980's aloe started to come back in
marketing soaps, creams and lotions but former roommate swears it was
something her forefathers have always had on hand for internal and
external use. Here in Chile the plant is as common as a daisy in
nurserys where we can even buy a cut leaf which yields more than a quart
of aloe juice. Everyone here knows about its benefits.

      I have never heard of anyone allergic to aloe. For me offering aloe
syrup only has benefits for you and your guests and it can provide very
interesting conversation.

     Oh, English culinary historians - pls don't confuse this aloe with
your birdies!

Suey

Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 02:40:33 -0400
From: ranvaig at columbus.rr.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Using aloe in food
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> My first thought as aloe vera, which is used in food items, but I
> think that aloe vera is a New World plant. Wikipedia mentions its use
> in Pakistan and India "for centuries", but that doesn't necessarily
> mean it is period.

When people talk about Aloe, they usually mean Aloe Vera.  And it is  
definitely Old World.

Ranvaig

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloe_vera
Aloe vera (syn. A. barbadensis Mill., A. vulgaris Lam.) is a species  
of Aloe, native to northern Africa.

http://www.aloeria.co.uk/html/body_aloe_vera_history.html
Most botanists agree, and historical evidence suggests, that the Aloe  
Vera plant originated in the warm, dry climates of Africa. However,  
because the plant is readily adaptable, and because man has been so  
eager to carry it with him from place to place, it now can be found  
in many warm lands.
... The first detailed discussion of Aloe's medicinal value is  
probably that which is found in the Papyrus ebers, an Egyptian  
document written around B.C.E. 1550. This document gives twelve  
formulas for mixing Aloe with other agents to treat both internal and  
external human disorders.

http://faculty.ucc.edu/biology-ombrello/POW/Aloe_vera.htm
Aloe vera is one of about 250 species of Aloes.  The Aloes are  
members of the Lily family (Liliaceae) and, therefore, are relatives  
of such common plants as tulips, Easter lilies, and asparagus.  Aloe  
vera is believed to be native to the Mediterranean, but its exact  
native habitat is unknown.  In the Old World the aloes have had a  
long history of economic use, and this species in particular has been  
carried around by people for so long that its original habitat has  
been lost in history.  In fact, some taxonomists believe that Aloe  
vera is not even a naturally developed species, but instead some  
ancient hybrid.  This may, in part, account for the use of two  
scientific names for the species.

Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 07:22:46 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Using aloe in food
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Aloe vera is the common aloe of the Mediterannean and is very likely  
what is being called for as aloe.

Genus Agave is the New World equivalent of genus Aloe, and the agaves  
are sometimes referred to as false aloe.

Bear

> My first thought as aloe vera, which is used in food items, but I
> think that aloe vera is a New World plant. Wikipedia mentions its use
> in Pakistan and India "for centuries", but that doesn't necessarily
> mean it is period.
>
> Stefan

Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 16:34:40 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: Susan Fox <selene at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pellydore?
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Pellitory is a pungent herb.  I have not tried it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anacyclus_pyrethrum>

Selene

Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 22:46:23 -0500
From: Cindy Sorenson <wolfhawke81 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pellydore
To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Medieval Cookery - A Dictionary of Middle-English Cooking Te...
pellydore - Pellitory (Anacyclus
pyrethrum). An herb with a hot, spicy flavor. Also called Spanish
Chamomile and Mount Atlas daisy. Pellitory ...
www.medievalcookery.com/dictionary/dict_p.shtm

Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 23:25:54 -0700
From: Lilinah <lilinah at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pellydore?
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Pellitory is an herb.

There are descriptions at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pellitory

Roman Pellitory. Pellitory of Spain. Spanish Chamomile. Pyrethrem
http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/p/pellit19.html

I've never used it in food, but in the mid-70s we grew Pyrethrem at 
our rented house in West LA that had a wonderful apricot tree in the 
back yard under which one of my house mates planted real violets.
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:45:05 -0700
From: "Laureen Hart" <lhart at graycomputer.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Hyssop
To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Snip
Capons Stewed 
Has anyone played with this recipe? Has anyone spent a lot of time with
Hyssop?
************************************

I haven't spent a *lot* of time with hyssop, but I like it. There are a
bunch of varieties so your mileage may vary. If you use a lot it can be
bitter. 

What I did the first time I bought it was boiled some up with water and
tasted it. It is good for colds and sniffles so I started adding it to herb
teas as well as cooking with it.

Randell Raye

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:31:30 -0400
From: "Sharon Gordon" <gordonse at one.net>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Historic Recipe in 2009 Herb Quarterly
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

As part of the International Herb of the year's focus on bay, the Spring
2009 Herb Quarterly features an article on bay's uses throughout history.
As a side bar the author included an ancient Roman recipe for cheese bread
from Cato.  It's a flat bread baked on top of bay leaves to perfume it.

Sharon

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:42:57 -0400
From: Gretchen Beck <grm at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Historic Recipe in 2009 Herb Quarterly
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

--On Thursday, March 12, 2009 2:31 PM -0400 Sharon Gordon
<gordonse at one.net> wrote:
<<< As part of the International Herb of the year's focus on bay, the Spring
2009 Herb Quarterly features an article on bay's uses throughout history.
As a side bar the author included an ancient Roman recipe for cheese bread
from Cato.  It's a flat bread baked on top of bay leaves to perfume it. >>>

Neat! I cooked what is probably a descendant of it this weekend (not for a
feast). Yeast dough 2/3 bread flour, 1/3 corn meal, create disks, brush
with oil, put in a bayleaf, and fold over or seal. Let rise again and bake.

Yummy!

toodles, margaret

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 13:57:46 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Historic Recipe in 2009 Herb Quarterly
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

I think a copy of the recipe should be out in the Florilegium as we went 
over this early on in the history of the list.

Cato's recipe calls for 2 pounds of finely ground cheese to one pound of 
fine flour.  Work the flour and cheese together add an egg as a binder then 
shape it into a loaf.  place it on top of bay leaves and bake under a testo 
(clay dome oven) on a hot hearth.

Bear

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 2:31 PM, Sharon Gordon <gordonse at one.net> wrote:
<<< As part of the International Herb of the year's focus on bay, the Spring
2009 Herb Quarterly features an article on bay's uses throughout history.
As a side bar the author included an ancient Roman recipe for cheese bread
from Cato.  It's a flat bread baked on top of bay leaves to perfume it.

Sharon >>>

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:47:42 EDT
From: CorwynWdwd at aol.com
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ummm... weird question...
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

StefanliRous at austin.rr.com writes:
<<< Anyway,  for future reference, from the herbal experts out there, what  
is a  good herb known for it's laxative properties? Period or  non. >>>

Buckthorn Bark, tempered with ginger PLEASE, otherwise you wouldn't  believe 
the cramps.
_http://www.puristat.com/ingredients/buckthornbark.aspx?pid=1&campaignno=Produ
cts_Ingredients&adgroup=Buckthorn&keywords=buckthorn+bark_E_ 
(http://www.puristat.com/ingredients/buckthornbark.aspx?pid=1&campaignno=Products_Ingredients&adgroup=Buckthorn&keywords=buckthorn+bark_E) 

Corwyn

Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:12:01 -0800
From: "Wanda Pease" <wandap at hevanet.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Ummm... weird question...
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

StefanliRous at austin.rr.com writes:
<<< Anyway,  for future reference, from the herbal experts out there, what
is a  good herb known for it's laxative properties? Period or  non. >>>

Rhubarb.  Not period for Western Europe, but works (says the owner of a 150
year old rhubarb plant).  I love the stuff in various forms to include just
cut up and dipped in sugar (substitute now), but there is a price to pay...

Regina

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 06:09:05 -0700
From: "Laura C. Minnick" <lcm at jeffnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Herbal laxatives
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Pat Griffin wrote:
Stephen asked for herbal laxatives.

The first one I thought of was Senna, but is Senna an herb?  

Lady Anne du Bosc, Called Mordonna
Thorngill, Meridies

I thought senna was bark, which would be more of a spice than an herb...

Many years ago, at summer camp, our counselor told us that one of the 
cabins had done an overnighter in the woods, and when they gathered 
firewood to cook their food, they happened to gather up some cascara 
along with the alder and birch they found.

Let's just say it was a long night.

'Lainie

Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:54:22 -0500
From: Cindy Sorenson <wolfhawke81 at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herbal / natural laxatives
To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Senna is a natural laxative; parts used - leaves and pods.  It has a strong laxative effect on the entire intestinal tract, especially the colon and large intestines.  It should always be taken with carminative herbs such as ginger or fennel to prevent bowel cramps.  It should not be used in cases of inflammation of the stomach. (Today's Herbal Health by Louise Tenney, M.H.)  Also listed are rhubarb and flaxseed.  In ancient days (as now) spices, roots, berries, leaves, etc were both food and healing herbs.  Equally, I'd had a friend ask me to bring her 'interesting weeds'. I'd moved, and there were 'weeds' I didn't recognize, so took them to her to use as dyes for wool.  She'd tell me the names, then I'd run home to learn their medicinal values.  Within 20' of the road, it's a dye... beyond 20', it's an herb.      

<<< Stephen asked for herbal laxatives.

The first one I thought of was Senna, but is Senna an herb?? 

Lady Anne du Bosc, Called Mordonna
Thorngill, Meridies >>>

Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 22:12:40 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sent Sovi and A&S- advice needed
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Parsley (Petroselinum crispum) is a single species with about 30 subspecies 
which fall into two main divisions, flat-leafed and curly-leafed.  Prior to 
300 BCE, Theophrastus describes both curley-leafed and flat-leafed parsley 
varieties.  Pliny provides the information that the Romans were 
particularly fond of parsley as a seasoning.  The two pieces of information 
suggest that both types of parsley would have been available and it would 
have been the choice of the cook as to which was used.

If you need a more precise answer, I would suggest Charles de L'Ecluse 
(Carolus Clusius), Rariorum aliquot stirpium per Hispanias observatarum 
historia, 1576

http://www.knaw.nl/publicaties/pdf/20061066_Clusius_05.pdf

<<< I have entered several cooking projects from medieval India, but I
rarely break out of "home base". I fell in lust with The Book of Sent
Sovi (Vogelzang translation 2008) and have one I have been working on
and would love to enter into the next A&S faire.

It is expected in this kingdom that each ingredient in a dish be
separately documented. If the translation lists "parsley", what kind of
parsley was correct for that time/place, etc. 

Madhavi of Jaisalmer
House Herava >>>

Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 22:20:17 -0500
From: "Terry Decker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Sent Sovi and A&S- advice needed
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

Let's try this again.

<<< Parsley (Petroselinum crispum) is a single species with about 30 
subspecies which fall into two main divisions, flat-leafed and 
curly-leafed.  Prior to 300 BCE, Theophrastus describes both curley-leafed 
and flat-leafed parsley varieties.  Pliny provides the information that 
the Roman's were particularly fond of parsley as a seasoning.  The two 
pieces of information suggest that both types of parsley would have been 
available and it would have been the choice of the cook as to which was 
used.

If you need a more precise answer, I would suggest Charles de L'Ecluse 
(Carolus Clusius), Rariorum aliquot stirpium per Hispanias observatarum 
historia, 1576 >>>

Which can be found here, 
http://books.google.com/books?id=jQ3RZA2npvIC&pg=PR1&lpg=PR1&dq=Rariorum+aliquot+stirpium+per+Hispanias+observatarum+historia&source=bl&ots=Dv2JO98vWz&sig=iZNZiCow0prehdBgIYCWbkXyg5c&hl=en&ei=R14bSoGeK9OFmQeD65zpDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3

If that doesn't work, just plug the title into Google.

For an account of Clusius's correspondence with Spanish botanists and a list 
of some of the plants in the text including Petroselinum macedonicum, try 
here:

> http://www.knaw.nl/publicaties/pdf/20061066_Clusius_05.pdf

I haven't checked, but according to some other sources, this work has the 
first reference to capsicum peppers in Spain.

Bear

Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:46:49 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Asafoetida and Silphium
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

The latest issue of Saudi Aramco World magazine for July/August 2009
arrived today.

It has an article in on "Devil's Dung" or Asafoetida.
Also the article contains an interesting sidebar on Silphium
It's online here:
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/200904/devil.s.dung-the.world.s.smelliest.spice.htm

Johnnae

Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:46:02 -0700
From: K C Francis <katiracook at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] pellitory
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

It is also used in making gruits, an ale made with various bitter/flavorful herbs instead of hops.  Thanks for the source!

Katira al-Maghrebiyya

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:22:58 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Apicius question(s)

Cailte wrote:
<<< Second, there is no indication of what to substitute for laser
(which appears to be in everything as well... no wonder it's
not around any more). >>>

Asafoetida (asafetida), called Hing in South Asian markets.
-- 
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 17:29:53 -0400
From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig at columbus.rr.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Apicius question(s)

<<<	Laser, laserpitium, silphium- Flowers and Rosenbaum suggest 
replacing this herb with asafoetida. 
www.housedragonor.org/A&S/herbs-gwen.html  oh! reading further on 
that page, one finds Laser is still used today in India and can be 
found in many of the larger import markets. It is commonly known as 
heeng.  I have no idea about the accuracy of that second statement. 
See the Wiki articles about both Silphium and Asafoetida, very 
interesting.  Apparently cooked asafoetida is leek-like, and "giant 
fennel" is part of the same Genus. >>>

Hing or Heeng is another word for Asafetida.  Silphium was similar to 
asafotida, which was considered an inferior substitute.

http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/Feru_ass.html
http://www.uni-graz.at/~katzer/engl/Silphion.html

Ranvaig

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 11:56:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Cheri or Anne <celticcheri at yahoo.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] My "Roman Meal" display at A and S

Just an FYI..lovage tastes like very strong celery. I have two tall plants that I grow here and can tell you a little lovage goes a LONG way.
anne

*snip*
For a 26-dish Roman feast i made for 80 diners, i prepared peaches with ground roasted cumin, lovage (i substituted Chinese parsley because i couldn't find fresh lovage herb), 
*snip*
-- Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:50:10 -0800
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] My "Roman Meal" display at A and S

Cheri or Anne wrote:
<<< Just an FYI..lovage tastes like very strong celery. I have two tall 
plants that I grow here and can tell you a little lovage goes a LONG 
way. >>>

In my experience, fresh lovage leaves tasted like strong celery with 
a hint of menthol. Couldn't match the menthol, but i substituted 
Chinese parsley because it is composed only of thin leafy stalks, and 
no thick crunchy parts, with a flavor closer to lovage than regular 
celery.
--
Urtatim (that's err-tah-TEEM)
the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 07:46:25 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Looking for sea holly root

On May 17, 2010, at 10:29 PM, Jennifer Carlson wrote:
<<< Does anyone have a line on where to get sea holly root, also known  
as eringo or eryngo?
Talana >>>

Described here
http://floreznursery.blogspot.com/2009/08/eryngium-maritimum-sea-holly.html

http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/2343/

I have never found a source for the candied root. At one time I tried  
to grow it but didn't have any luck.

Johnnae

From: Worf <worf428 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ansteorra] Reasearch pages
Date: October 22, 2012 10:18:38 AM CDT
To: "Inc. Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA" <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>

For any researching Medicine and Herbs in Medieval times i would recomend the following Site: WWW.mostly-Medieval.com
I find it has lots of Information.
 
VADM Galiwyn CICT
A Lover Not A Fighter!!
Member of the Inn of the Weeping Unicorn.

Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:18:31 -0500 (EST)
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] herbs

Since I'm going to guess neither of us is a connoisseur of soap, there's  
wide room for disagreement here. But the more precise (if difficult to find)  
version of spikenard is often used in perfume, so the general odor is more  
associated today with cosmetics than edibles:

"Spikenard (Nardostachys  jatamansi); also called nard, nardin, and 
muskroot is a flowering plant of the  Valerian family that grows in the Himalayas of Nepal, China, and India. The plant grows to about 1 m in height and has pink, bell-shaped flowers. It is found in the altitude of about 3000 to 5000 meters. Spikenard rhizomes (underground stems) can be crushed and distilled 
into an intensely aromatic amber-colored  essential oil, which is very thick 
in consistency. Nard oil is used as a perfume, an incense, a sedative, and 
an herbal medicine said to fight insomnia,  birth difficulties, and other 
minor ailments.[1]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spikenard 

It's been a while since I've done this research, but as I recall in Gaul 
Gallic nard (hence, valerian) was more used than the real article.

Otherwise, it's worth noting that some gloss "espic" (probably spikenard) as lavender as well.

It doesn't help that nard was often paired with costus, which (via its  
Chinese equivalent) I find to taste like dirt (think ginseng). Yet both were once immensely prized.

I agree that cilantro is soapish as well; less so ginger, which I love.  
Cilantro is a curious herb/spice, not only because it's equally central to both  Mexican and Thai cuisine, but because its leaves have a very different flavor  from its seeds (coriander). For our period, it can also be treacherous, since  when Anthimus, for instance, refers to it you have to consider whether he means  the leaf or the seed (which to us would be two distinct ingredients).

Jim Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:54:54 -0500 (EST)
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Rue (was herbs)

And now yet another wrinkle:

It turns out what Persians use is wild rue - which isn't really rue at  all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peganum_harmala 

What's  more, they don't use it for food; they burn it:
http://www.sadaf.com/sadaf-wild-rue-seeds-esphand-13-0200/ 

Though rue is used in several of what are described here as "Byzantine"  
recipes (but seem to be more Arab than Greek):
http://nvg.org.au/documents/other/byzantinerecipes.pdf 

It's a treacherous little spice world out there...

Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

From: Navah / Aibinn ingen Artain <navah.trimaris at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: {TheTriskeleTavern} Question for Brewing
Date: June 8, 2013 6:37:31 PM CDT
To: "the-triskele-tavern at googlegroups.com" <the-triskele-tavern at googlegroups.com>, "meghan1 at mindspring.com" <meghan1 at mindspring.com>

Good place for reasonable spices in bulk is amazon.com. we get food grade hybiscus by the pound as well as tea... olong... spiced... lavender rose etc

<<< I would love to have some idea where you guys go to get spices and herbs for brewing. Most regular grocerie stores dont carry alot  . ie; vanilla bean and whole spices.  I have gotten lucky at some and found a few things but not alot of variety.  I have my honey issues worked out.
 
Diderick >>>

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 14:36:48 -0500
From: Robin Carroll-Mann <rcarrollmann at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Borage

I've been looking through a few Spanish salad recipes, and a number of them
call for borage leaves and sometimes the flowers as well.  From what I read
online, borage is used sometimes in Europe.  It is supposed to have a
cucumber-like flavor. The only reference I found to it in the U.S. was some
specialty produce-grower in California who grows it for some gourmet
restaurant.

Can anyone who's eaten it comment on the flavor and texture of borage?  Can
anyone suggest a reasonable substitute?  The Food Thesaurus suggests
spinach or arugula.

Also, I was pleased to see that a new supermarket in my area carries little
packages of edible flowers, right next to the packages of fresh herbs.
It's a mixture of unidentified species, and is too expensive, but I think
it's cool to have that option.

Brighid ni Chiarain

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 15:33:33 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Borage

A number of the garden seed companies sell it. I can remember taking a couple
of seed packages to someone who lived in Canada because she'd not found them
locally and wanted them for her herb garden.  30 years ago or longer now. I guess it's still uncommon.

I cannot recall eating it, although if was served in a mixed salad or dish, would I have noticed?

Johnnae

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 14:37:45 -0600
From: christine lopez <elinorsmommy at gmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Borage

we grow borage and use it regularly but  arugula or burnet which would be
my preference as a substitute(cucumber lemon taste)  if you cant find it at
a farmers market. Cant tell you much about purslane other than its an
edible weed here and that many folks enjoy it.

Leonor Constanza

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 21:11:48 +0000
From: S CLEMENGER <sclemenger at msn.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Borage

I grow it in my garden in the summer (and it re-seeds like woah, to boot). It doesn't taste anything at all like arugula, silly Thesaurus!

You might be able to find the seeds in the herb/flower section of garden pr0n catalogues (or corresponding places in stores). That?s where I got mine.

--Maire

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 17:10:40 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
From: <lilinah at earthlink.net>
To: SCA-Cooks <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Borage

Robin Carroll-Mann / Brighid ni Chiarain wrote:
<<< I've been looking through a few Spanish salad recipes, and a number of them
call for borage leaves and sometimes the flowers as well.  From what I read
online, borage is used sometimes in Europe.  It is supposed to have a
cucumber-like flavor. The only reference I found to it in the U.S. was some
specialty produce-grower in California who grows it for some gourmet
restaurant.

Can anyone who's eaten it comment on the flavor and texture of borage?  Can
anyone suggest a reasonable substitute?  The Food Thesaurus suggests
spinach or arugula. >>>

Borage leaves are rather... hairy, but that's not a problem when they're torn up. The flowers can also be used, they are a beautiful violet color. It's also excellent added to iced tea in the summer. Neither spinach nor arugula has a flavor at all similar to borage. I can't really think of a substitute. I might use mint, although the flavor is totally different, or lovage leaves, not that it's easy to find, either. Borage is not difficult to grow. One of my best friends grew it in her yard back in the 1970s. 

< I have similar questions about purslane. >

Purslane is used in SCA-period Middle Eastern recipes (i can't recall which at the moment and i'm away from my library), as well as in modern Middle Eastern recipes. When i've seen it for sale, it had its name in Spanish, verdolagas, at the ever astonishing Berkeley Bowl. It is also called pourpier in French, and bakleh or baklih in Lebanese Arabic.

I LOVE purslane, but have only rarely seen it for sale. I got a sack full from FreeCycle when someone was cleaning up her yard. Apparently it can be somewhat weedy in a yard, if the people in the house are not eating it :-) The leaves are a bit succulent - as in the plants known as succulents - although nowhere as thick as most succulents. The flavor is tangy, slightly sour, but not terribly so. It can be used raw or cooked. I really wish i could get a regular supply.

Urtatim (that's oor-tah-TEEM)

Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2014 11:24:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Donna Green <donnaegreen at yahoo.com>
To: "sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Borage

Borage grows easily here (San Francisco)?... and once you get it going it?is supposed to be easy to keep going ... if you have water which we are sorely lacking at the moment.

Purslane comes in many forms. As Urtatim said, it can be found in Mexican grocers as verdurlgas (or some such spelling). Also, miners lettuce is a variety of purslane and that is easily foraged in these parts come Spring.
Robin, I'm not sure what your growing conditions are like (or if you have any dirt for growing) but if you can get seeds, neither should be too difficult to grow in the warm and somewhat humid East Coast weather.

Juana Isabella

Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 13:08:48 -0800
From: K C Francis <katiracook at hotmail.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Borage

Yes, borage and purslane grow like weeds.  The borage flower can be used for blue food coloring and it is the second most used for candying after violets.  Purslane was being sold at my local farmer's market (Marin Civic Center), and Sunset magazine published an article with 3 recipes for purslane some years ago and I keep finding recipes using it in cookbooks and other magazines, so it is not so uncommon.  As to substitutes, I'd consider using a little actual cucumber for the borage leaves if recreating the flavor combination is important and I cannot think of anything with the very distinct flavor/texture of purslane to ever try.

Borage plants are available at nurseries but just ask any gardener if they have some to share and then stand back.  I only use my own cold compost as a bottom layer because the seeds aren't killed and I don't want to strangle the vegetables with borage (or have to weed it all out).

Katira

Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 15:27:28 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
From: <lilinah at earthlink.net>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Borage

K C Francis <katiracook at hotmail.com> wrote:
<<< In our community garden, with 2 bee hives, I foster borage anywhere it isn't in the way of plantings or walking around. Then it goes into my compost pile. I don't want to discourage reproduction. The same goes for poppies, nasturtiums and purslane. Let it grow until it is a problem. This last year I let a patch of nasturtiums get too full and it stunted a couple of tomato plants. While the flowers were beautiful, I really wanted the tomatoes! >>>

Nasturtium flowers are edible and a beautiful addition to a salad. The pale green flower buds can be picked at the end of the summer, pickled, and used like capers. And the leaves can be eaten while young. They can be used in salads (although a salad entirely of them might be a bit too spicy), cooked as almost any greens, and i've run across recipes for nasturtium leaf pesto. I've also seen recipes for dolmades made with more mature nasturtium leaves.

Nasturtiums are no replacement for tomatoes, but they can do more than look bright and cheerful in a garden.

Someone sometimes called Urtatim

Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 21:07:36 +0100
From: "Susi Mayer" <susanne.mayer5 at chello.at>
To: <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Borage

<<< I've been looking through a few Spanish salad recipes, and a number of them call for borage leaves and sometimes the flowers as well.  From what I read online, borage is used sometimes in Europe.  It is supposed to have a
cucumber-like flavor. The only reference I found to it in the U.S. was some
specialty produce-grower in California who grows it for some gourmet
restaurant.

Can anyone who's eaten it comment on the flavor and texture of borage?  Can
anyone suggest a reasonable substitute?  The Food Thesaurus suggests
spinach or arugula. >>>

Again hopelssly behind,....

UH, yes borage tastes a bit like cucumber it has a fresh, crunch taste and 
the leaves are hairy so it gives a quite distinct texture. Once planted in 
your garden it grows like weed and is annual but self seeding and WILL come 
again!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borage

On the Wiki page are some nice pictures showing the hairy leaves also and 
the starflowers look very nice on a salad. (but tehm in to ice cube 
compartments and frees with water for summer drinks.

I would not use arugula it is much to *hot and spicy* and spinach is bland 
and too distinct a flavor. Both do not resemble borage in any way. If you 
are able to get seeds somewere I would try to plant your own. It will also 
grow on the balcony in a pot BUT you need a big one as borage grows to a 
height of 60?100 cm (2.0?3.3 ft).

https://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/b/borage66.html
http://www.wikihow.com/Grow-Borage

Kind Regards Katharina
Drachenwald

who's Mom has tons of borage in the garden,....

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 08:01:27 -0600
From: "TerryDecker" <t.d.decker at att.net>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Arugula/Rocket/Eruca?

Eruca alba is listed in the garden plants of the Capitulare de villis vel 
curtis imperii.  Eruca and eruca seed appear as a seasoning in 5 or 6 
recipes in Apicius.

Bear

-----Original Message----- 
This is a green I don't believe I've ever seen  mentioned in any period
works. And yet, not only does Villanova mention quite a  bit, often it is as 
a flavoring, not really a green.

Anyone else ever encounter it [Eruca] anywhere else in recipes?

Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 07:17:49 -0800
From: David Walddon <david at vastrepast.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Arugula/Rocket/Eruca?

It is mentioned, eaten with lettuce as a salad, in the first five books of De Honesta. 

I am sure it is also in Gerard. 

Eduardo 

On Feb 24, 2014, at 10:04 PM, JIMCHEVAL at aol.com wrote:
<<< This is a green I don't believe I've ever seen  mentioned in any period 
works. And yet, not only does Villanova mention quite a  bit, often it is as a flavoring, not really a green.

Anyone else ever encounter it anywhere else in recipes?

Jim  Chevallier
www.chezjim.com >>>

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 10:30:12 -0500
From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Arugula/Rocket/Eruca?

Searching in medievalcookery.com under rocket=

A NEVV BOOKE of Cookerie
(England, 1615)
The original source can be found at Thomas Gloning's website

Diuers Sallets boyled. PArboyle Spinage, and chop it fine, with the edges of two hard Trenchers vpon a boord, or the backe of two chopping Kniues: then set them on a Chafingdish of coales with Butter and Uinegar. Season it with Sinamon, Ginger, Sugar, and a few parboyld Currins. Then cut hard Egges into quarters to garnish it withall, and serue it vpon sippets. So may you serue Burrage, Buglosse, Endiffe, Suckory, Coleflowers, Sorrel, Marigold leaues, water Cresses, Leekes boyled, Onions, Sparragus, Rocket, Alexanders. Parboyle them, and season them all alike: whether it be with Oyle and Uinegar, or Butter and Uinegar, Sinamon, Ginger, Sugar, and Butter: Egges are necessary, or at least very good for all boyld Sallets.

This is an excerpt from Libro di cucina / Libro per cuoco
(Italy, 14th/15th c. - Louise Smithson, trans.)
The original source can be found at Louise Smithson's website

LXXXIII - Relish of rue or of rocket. Take the seeds of the rocket and skin and cooked eggs and sugar and ginger and nutmeg and ginger and mix everything together and temper with good vinegar and it is good with every meat excellent.

Johnnae

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 08:37:16 -0700
From: "Daniel Myers" <dmyers at medievalcookery.com>
To: "Cooks within the SCA" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Arugula/Rocket/Eruca?

-------- Original Message --------
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
Date: Tue, February 25, 2014 1:04 am

<<< This is a green I don't believe I've ever seen mentioned in any period works. And yet, not only does Villanova mention quite a bit, often it is as a flavoring, not really a green.

Anyone else ever encounter it anywhere else in recipes? >>>

Yup.

LXXXIII - Relish of rue or of rocket. Take the seeds of the rocket and
skin and cooked eggs and sugar and ginger and nutmeg and ginger and mix
everything together and temper with good vinegar and it is good with
every meat excellent. [Libro di cucina / Libro per cuoco, (Italy,
14th/15th c. - Louise Smithson, trans.)]

Diuers Sallets boyled. PArboyle Spinage, and chop it fine, with the
edges of two hard Trenchers vpon a boord, or the backe of two chopping
Kniues: then set them on a Chafingdish of coales with Butter and
Uinegar. Season it with Sinamon, Ginger, Sugar, and a few parboyld
Currins. Then cut hard Egges into quarters to garnish it withall, and
serue it vpon sippets. So may you serue Burrage, Buglosse, Endiffe,
Suckory, Coleflowers, Sorrel, Marigold leaues, water Cresses, Leekes
boyled, Onions, Sparragus, Rocket, Alexanders. Parboyle them, and season
them all alike: whether it be with Oyle and Uinegar, or Butter and
Uinegar, Sinamon, Ginger, Sugar, and Butter: Egges are necessary, or at
least very good for all boyld Sallets. [A NEVV BOOKE of Cookerie,
(England, 1615)]

- Doc

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 11:11:21 -0500 (EST)
From: JIMCHEVAL at aol.com
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Arugula/Rocket/Eruca?

This might actually be the key.

Arugula is eruca sativa. But:

Eruca alba (L.) Noulet is a synonym of Sinapis alba  L.

That is, white mustard. I'd be inclined to believe  Villanova's eruca is 
this one (he may even say which somewhere in his massive  text, but if so I 
haven't found it yet).

Thanks for the hint and to Doc, Johnnae and Edouardo for the other  
references.

Jim Chevallier
www.chezjim.com

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 11:47:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Galefridus Peregrinus <galefridus at optimum.net>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Arugula/Rocket/Eruca?

It's listed in six manuscripts of the Tacuinum Sanitatis (14th-15th 
century), as well as the original Arabic Taqwim al-Sihha from which the 
Tacuinum was translated (11th century).

-- Galefridus

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 14:54:32 -0300
From: Susan Lord Williams <lordhunt at gmail.com>
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Arugula/Rocket/Eruca?

Rocket is frequently included in medieval Spanish recipes as seen in the translations of the medieval Spanish culinary manuscripts available on line in English. 

An interesting part of South American cuisine is that it has carried over food products and recipes which have been lost in Spain. Rocket is hard to find in Spain today. In Chile it is readily available like lettuce and used almost as much in salads as lettuce. It is also puried like spinach. My house quests from the US recently claimed they would not eat my salad if it had rocket because it was too bitter. They ate their words!

Suey

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Edited by Mark S. Harris	herbs-msg	Page  of