sandalwood-msg

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sandalwood-msg - 7/15/17

Period Sandlewood, also known as Saunders. Different types. Uses.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,

Mark S. Harris AKA: THLord Stefan li Rous

Stefan at florilegium.org

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From: gfrose at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:42:28 -0500

Subject: Re: SC - Theme Feasts

Hi, Katerine here. Leri writes:

>The CI recipe calls for coloring with Saunders but I don't have much luck

>with that. In order to get good color so much is added that the dish starts

>to taste like wood. Food coloring can be substituted, I guess, or can be

>left out entirely.

Just a quick thought. There are several kinds of saunders available today,

distinguished primarily by color. Of the three I've seen, one is a deep

red, one a sort of medium rosy brown, and one tan (there may be others).

The first saunders I got was of the second kind, and gave me the kind

of problem you describe. Since getting the first, I haven't had that

trouble. It colors dishes nicely, and imparts a lovely delicate flavor.

Cheers,

- -- Katerine/Terry

From: nweders at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt)

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:15:24 -0600

Subject: SC - Saunders

The tan saunders is used mostly for incense making and there are many

different qualities of that. Once we were working on an incense project we

ground our own red saunders. It was kinda fun.

Clare

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 12:07:44 -0600

From: "Stephanie Rudin"<rudin at okway.okstate.edu>

Subject: Re: SC - Sauders

<< how would a new cook in West Virginia find either (a) saunders

(not George) or (b) an acceptable substitute?

I've also seen it at middle eastern groceries.

Mercedes

Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 19:48:13 -0400 (EDT)

From: LrdRas at aol.com

Subject: SC - Saunders

<< 5) How does one get saunders? I know (or at least think I do) that

it (they?) come/s from sandalwood, but how do you isolate it?

Cairistiona >>

There are two types of sandalwood- yellow and red.

The wood of the yellow sandalwood is very aromatic and is used in the

porduction of accessories and is ground into a powder that is used in the

production of some incenses.

The wood of the red sandalwood is not aromatic and is used for furniture

among other things. It's powdered form is the substance we know as saunders .

Ras

Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:04:06 -0700

From: "David Dendy" <ddendy at silk.net>

Subject: Re: SC - Sandalwood

>Saunders is produced from a red dyewood that is not very aromatic. This red

>wooded sandalwood is what we use in medieval cookery to produce color in

>various dishes. My sources do not indicate if it is an actual member of the

>Santalaceae family.

>Ras

Saunders is Pterocarpus santalinus, a member of quite a different botanical

family.

Francesco

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 07:49:32 -0400

From: grizly at mindspring.com

Subject: Re: Re: SC - Spicing dishes

>I thought from comments made on this list, that red sandlewood didn't

>have a taste, just a color?

>- --

>Lord Stefan li Rous

I have some sanders that has a distinctive flavor. you have to know what you are tasting for, though. It is usually rather bland and old from most purveyors.

niccolo

From: "Christine Seelye-King" <kingstaste at mindspring.com>

To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] What does Saunders taste like?

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 18:00:20 -0400

>What does Saunders taste like?

Saunders is a version of sandalwood that is non-aromatic. It doesn't really

taste like anything, it is a reddish-orange sawdust, basically. The red

that you get with it is not the RED #2 that we get from chemicals, it is

much closer to the red/orange crayola. If having to use food coloring

liquids, I would go with a fairly high rate of yellow to red to achieve the

same color.

Christianna

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4 at earthlink.net>

To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 17:43:48 -0400

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What does Saunders taste like?

On 23 Aug 2002, at 17:40, BaronessaIlaria at aol.com wrote:

> I have not tasted Saunders, though I am planning to make peach pits

> and thinking about making the "strawberries" in the Florilegium. Can

> anyone give me an idea what it is similar to or what substitutions

> might work?

> Ilaria

Red food coloring. Saunders is primarily a food coloring. Some

folks claim it has a mild flavor they can detect, but I cannot.

Certainly, in peach pits, the cinnamon and almond flavors will

drown out any slight taste the saunders has.

If you cannot get saunders, then I'd suggest using small amounts

of the paste-style food coloring used by cake decorators, rather

than the little squeeze bottles of liquid you get in the supermarket.

Saunders can vary in color from a bright paprika to a darker brick

color. If you have a choice, I'd use a dark red coloring, not a fire-

engine shade.

Brighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann

Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:27:55 -0700 (PDT)

From: Samrah <auntie_samrah at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: sandalwood, oppopanax & amber (was

suppliers)

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

If I remember your original post correctly, you were looking into

pharmaceuticals, not perfumery (which if memory serves was not a

separate discipline until 1700). In that case, you would be dealing

with the chemical constituancies of the herbs, rather than just the

fragrance.

Opopanax is a very heavy smelling dark resin, stronger than amber. It

can be found on line, sold by the gram, not the ounce, but I have lost

my bookmarks. I was unable to find it for about 9 years. There really

doesn't seem to be a fragrance substitute.

Any more, amber tends to be a perfumers' blend of many resins and

possibly even chemical substances. Most contain benzion and styrax

(which has a sort of terpentiny fragrance) and labdanum. As the

original amber trees that produce amber beads are now extinct, it is

indeed possible, if not probable, that the period recipes could be

referring to resin from these extinct trees.

Beware! There are 3 entirely botanically different plants that are

referred to as "sandalwood". Technically what you want for apothecary

work is East Indian sandalwood, aka white or yellow sandalwood, aka

santalum album, and yes, it is the endangered stuff. Current wholesale

here for 1/2 oz. $40 US (from a reasonable supplier).

If you are doing perfumery work, you can use amyris, aka West Indian

sandalwood, aka amyris balsamifera. It is not botanically related to

the endangered sandalwood, nor does it have the same chemical

constituants. If you get a good grade for perfumery work, it will

smell the same to the average nose. An inferior grade will have a

smokey smell, like some sandalwood incenses often purchased at swap

meets. By contrast, it runs about $6 per 1/2 oz. (good quality oil,

wholesale price).

There is also a red sandalwood powder, aka pterocarpus santalinus,

known in period as "Saunders powder" used as a colourant to make foods

red, particulary in poaching pears. I do not know its chemical

constituants, but it is not botanically related to the other two, and

is a very poor choice for any type of fragrance work.

Samrah

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:36:19 -0700 (PDT)

From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: sandalwood, oppopanax & amber (was

suppliers)

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Have you looked lately, Samrah, dear?

I found these sites, who say they sell Opopanax, without too much

effort.

http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/candle/candle.php

http://mayaherbs.com/product_info.phtml/herbid_237/category_incenses

http://www.naturensdroger.se/enter.html?target=p_709.html&;lang=sv

I could have listed several more, but their sites are not in English.

Huette

Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 08:07:53 -0500

From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] sauders/sandlewood

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> I don't remember seeing any replies to this question. If I remember

> correctly, there are two types of sandlewood/sauders. One produces a

> good red color ad is used in foods. The other doesn't, but has a nice

> smell and is used in perfumery and such.

"Saunders" ie red sandalwood, is the powdered wood of Pterocarpus

santalina. It's not aromatic.

Yellow sandalwood is the wood of Santalum album, a parasitic tree, no

relation to saunders.

This is according to _Dangerous Tastes: A History of Spices_ by Andrew

Darby.

-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net

Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:40:55 -0500

From: Daniel Myers <edoard at medievalcookery.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] sauders/sandlewood

To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net, Cooks within the SCA

<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Jan 4, 2007, at 8:07 AM, Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise wrote:

>> I don't remember seeing any replies to this question. If I remember

>> correctly, there are two types of sandlewood/sauders. One produces a

>> good red color ad is used in foods. The other doesn't, but has a nice

>> smell and is used in perfumery and such.

> "Saunders" ie red sandalwood, is the powdered wood of Pterocarpus

> santalina. It's not aromatic.

> Yellow sandalwood is the wood of Santalum album, a parasitic tree, no

> relation to saunders.

Please note that yellow sandalwood is not safe for human

consumption. Further, don't use sandalwood oil in cooking - it's

likely to be yellow sandalwood oil, and the concentration of the

hazardous compounds is much, much higher.

- Doc

Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:16:55 -0500

From: Daniel Myers <edoard at medievalcookery.com>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] sauders/sandlewood

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Jan 4, 2007, at 2:53 PM, Susan Fox wrote:

>> Please note that yellow sandalwood is not safe for human

>> consumption. Further, don't use sandalwood oil in cooking - it's

>> likely to be yellow sandalwood oil, and the concentration of the

>> hazardous compounds is much much higher.

>> - Doc

> I've been gifted with a bottle of sandalwood syrup from the middle

> east. I'm at work and the bottle is at home so I can't say right now

> where it's from exactly - the donor brought it from Qatar. I wonder

> what the flavoring agent could be then? It does smell lovely, like

> sandalwood. I might drizzle it over baklava but certainly won't

> use it to drown my pancakes.

Did some more digging. My reasons were a bit off, but the advice

remains the same.

It could very well be yellow sandalwood flavoring that syrup. It's

used in some Ayurvedic and herbal medicines and isn't regulated by

the FDA (then again, no "dietary supplements" are regulated by the

FDA and several of them have turned out to be very unhealthy (e.g.

ephedra, kava kava)).

iHerb.com (an herbal medicine store) has this to say about their

yellow sandalwod:

[ http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetContent.aspx?

token=e0498803-7f62-4563-8d47-5fe33da65dd4&chunkiid=21864 ]

"Sandalwood oil appears to be relatively safe, but it has not

undergone comprehensive safety testing; in general, essential oil can

have toxic and even fatal effects when taken in sufficient doses,

especially by children. Allergic reactions caused by direct contact

with sandalwood oil occur relatively frequently. Sandalwood oil

should not be used by young children, pregnant or nursing women, or

people with severe liver or kidney disease."

Stony Mountain Botanicals has the following note:

[ http://www.wildroots.com/sandalwood-oil-fl-oz-p-1277.html ]

"For external use only. Dilute properly. Keep out of reach of children."

I guess the important point to stress is that the essential oils sold

for aromatherapy and soap making are not meant as food or as a food

additive. I wouldn't want to tell someone to add 2 Tbsp of

sandalwood to a dish and have them use yellow sandalwood oil.

Compare this to red sandalwood powder - if you put too much of it

into your food ... the food tastes like sawdust.

Also, at least in the European sources I've seen, saunders is always

used as a *red* colorant, and the fragrance is never mentioned.

- Doc

Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:57:40 -0700

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Foodgrade Sandlewood

Mora of Dragonmarsh wrote:

<<< Food grade Sandalwood is also called Saunders.

We carry both the Yellow/Tan version = Sandalwood Tan Powder (Santalum

album) 1/2 oz $2.95

Also Red Sandalwood Powder - slightly cinnamon taste - (Pterocarpus

santalinus) 1/2 oz $2.95.

1/2 oz is approximately 1/3 of a cup by volume for recipe use.

20% Discounts for 1 lb packages- get together and save.

All our herbs and spices are pharmacy grade. >>>

True Sandalwood, Santalum albumm -- sometimes called White Sandalwood

-- although it is more of a very pale tannish yellow color -- is not

considered safe to eat. This is the sandalwood with the lovely

fragrance.

What i usually see called for in SCA period recipes is Red Sandalwood

/ Red Sanders / Red Saunders, Pterocarpus santalinus. This had little

flavor but adds an interesting warm red color to dishes.

I don't want people to injure themselves or their diners using true

Sandalwood in their food.

Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]

the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 18:11:29 -0800 (GMT-08:00)

From: lilinah at earthlink.net

To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>, Johnna

Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>, Terri Morgan <online2much at cox.net>

Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cooking qustion

First, what is called for here is red saunders, which is NOT true sandalwood. In fact, true sandalwood (Santalum album and other Santalum spp.) is not safe to consume. Red saunders, aka red sanders, aka red sandalwood (Pterocarpus santalinus) can be purchased on-line, so it's not that hard to get.

Second, it has little to no flavor if properly prepared and used. It needs to be a very fine powder, and one should not use giant globs of it. The only times i've heard of problems have been when either the red saunders was not powdered properly so there was splinters and chunks of it in the dish or when the cook in an effort to get a bright red used huge quantities of it. If you powder it yourself, SIFT IT before using. And don't expect it to be bright red. It will be a brick pink.

Third, since it can be purchased on-line, i don't see a real reason to use red food coloring.

Four, if one is set on going the artificial coloring route, well, common red food coloring is the wrong color. Powdered red saunders is rather brick red, so when diluted in the apple mus it is the pinkish version of brick red, a warm pink without blue overtones.

I have made apple mus colored with red saunders.

Urtatim (that's urr-tah-TEEM)