Title: sandalwood-msg
Subject: Period Sandalwood, also known as Saunders. Different types. Uses.
Author: Edited by Mark S. Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: medieval, spice, sandalwood, saunders, food color, perfume

sandalwood-msg - 7/15/17

Period Sandlewood, also known as Saunders. Different types. Uses.

NOTE: See also the files: spices-msg, merch-spices-msg, gums-resins-msg, p-fd-coloring-msg, Dresng-t-Dish-art, gilded-food-msg, perfumes-msg, Perfumes-bib.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: gfrose  at cotton.vislab.olemiss.edu (Terry Nutter)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:42:28 -0500
Subject: Re: SC - Theme Feasts

Hi, Katerine here.  Leri writes:

>The CI recipe calls for coloring with Saunders but I don't have much luck
>with that. In order to get good color so much is added that the dish starts
>to taste like wood. Food coloring can be substituted, I guess, or can be
>left out entirely.

Just a quick thought.  There are several kinds of saunders available today,
distinguished primarily by color.  Of the three I've seen, one is a deep 
red, one a sort of medium rosy brown, and one tan (there may be others).  
The first saunders I got was of the second kind, and gave me the kind
of problem you describe.  Since getting the first, I haven't had that
trouble.  It colors dishes nicely, and imparts a lovely delicate flavor.

Cheers,
- -- Katerine/Terry

From: nweders  at mail.utexas.edu (ND Wederstrandt)
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:15:24 -0600
Subject: SC - Saunders

The tan saunders is used mostly for incense making and there are many
different qualities of that.  Once we were working on an incense project we
ground our own red saunders.  It was kinda fun.

Clare

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 97 12:07:44 -0600
From: "Stephanie Rudin"<rudin  at okway.okstate.edu>
Subject: Re: SC - Sauders 

<<  how would a new cook in West Virginia find either (a) saunders 
 (not George) or (b) an acceptable substitute?
  >>

     I've also seen it at middle eastern groceries.
     
     Mercedes

Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 19:48:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: LrdRas  at aol.com
Subject: SC - Saunders

<< 5)  How does one get saunders?  I know (or at least think I do) that 
 it (they?) come/s from sandalwood, but how do you isolate it?
 
Cairistiona >>

There are two types of sandalwood- yellow and red. 

The wood of the yellow sandalwood is very aromatic and is used in the
porduction of accessories and is ground into a powder that is used in the
production of some incenses.

The wood of the red sandalwood is not aromatic and is used for furniture
among other things. It's powdered form is the substance we know as saunders .

Ras

Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:04:06 -0700
From: "David Dendy" <ddendy  at silk.net>
Subject: Re: SC - Sandalwood

>Saunders is produced from a red dyewood that is not very aromatic. This red
>wooded sandalwood is what we use in medieval cookery to produce color in
>various dishes. My sources do not indicate if it is an actual member of the
>Santalaceae family.
>
>Ras

Saunders is Pterocarpus santalinus, a member of quite a different botanical
family.

Francesco

Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 07:49:32 -0400
From: grizly  at mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Re: SC - Spicing dishes

>I thought from comments made on this list, that red sandlewood didn't
>have a taste, just a color?
>- -- 
>Lord Stefan li Rous    

I have some sanders that has a distinctive flavor.  you have to know what you are tasting for, though.  It is usually rather bland and old from most purveyors.

niccolo

From: "Christine Seelye-King" <kingstaste  at mindspring.com>
To: <sca-cooks  at ansteorra.org>
Subject: RE: [Sca-cooks] What does Saunders taste like?
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 18:00:20 -0400

>What does Saunders taste like?

Saunders is a version of sandalwood that is non-aromatic.  It doesn't really
taste like anything, it is a reddish-orange sawdust, basically.  The red
that you get with it is not the RED #2 that we get from chemicals, it is
much closer to the red/orange crayola.  If having to use food coloring
liquids, I would go with a fairly high rate of yellow to red to achieve the
same color.

Christianna

From: "Robin Carroll-Mann" <rcmann4  at earthlink.net>
To: sca-cooks  at ansteorra.org
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 17:43:48 -0400
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] What does Saunders taste like?

On 23 Aug 2002, at 17:40, BaronessaIlaria  at aol.com wrote:
> I have not tasted Saunders, though I am planning to make peach pits
> and thinking about making the "strawberries" in the Florilegium. Can
> anyone give me an idea what it is similar to or what substitutions
> might work?
>
> Ilaria

Red food coloring.  Saunders is primarily a food coloring.  Some
folks claim it has a mild flavor they can detect, but I cannot.
Certainly, in peach pits, the cinnamon and almond flavors will
drown out any slight taste the saunders has.

If you cannot get saunders, then I'd suggest using small amounts
of the paste-style food coloring used by cake decorators, rather
than the little squeeze bottles of liquid you get in the supermarket.

Saunders can vary in color from a bright paprika to a darker brick
color.  If you have a choice, I'd use a dark red coloring, not a fire-
engine shade.

Brighid ni Chiarain *** mka Robin Carroll-Mann
Barony of Settmour Swamp, East Kingdom

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:27:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Samrah <auntie_samrah at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: sandalwood, oppopanax & amber (was
	suppliers)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

If I remember your original post correctly, you were looking into 
pharmaceuticals, not perfumery (which if memory serves was not a 
separate discipline until 1700).  In that case, you would be dealing 
with the chemical constituancies of the herbs, rather than just the 
fragrance.

Opopanax is a very heavy smelling dark resin, stronger than amber.  It 
can be found on line, sold by the gram, not the ounce, but I have lost 
my bookmarks.  I was unable to find it for about 9 years.  There really 
doesn't seem to be a fragrance substitute.

Any more, amber tends to be a perfumers' blend of many resins and 
possibly even chemical substances.  Most contain benzion and styrax 
(which has a sort of  terpentiny fragrance) and labdanum.  As the 
original amber trees that produce amber beads are now extinct, it is 
indeed possible, if not probable, that the period recipes could be 
referring to resin from these extinct trees.

Beware!  There are 3 entirely botanically different plants that are 
referred to as "sandalwood".  Technically what you want for apothecary 
work is East Indian sandalwood, aka white or yellow sandalwood, aka 
santalum album, and yes, it is the endangered stuff.  Current wholesale 
here for 1/2 oz. $40 US (from a reasonable supplier).

If you are doing perfumery work, you can use amyris, aka West Indian 
sandalwood, aka amyris balsamifera.  It is not botanically related to 
the endangered sandalwood, nor does it have the same chemical 
constituants.  If you get a good grade for perfumery work, it will 
smell the same to the average nose.  An inferior grade will have a 
smokey smell, like some sandalwood incenses often purchased at swap 
meets.  By contrast, it runs about $6 per 1/2 oz. (good quality oil, 
wholesale price).

There is also a red sandalwood powder, aka pterocarpus santalinus, 
known in period as "Saunders powder" used as a colourant to make foods 
red, particulary in poaching pears.  I do not know its chemical 
constituants, but it is not botanically related to the other two, and 
is a very poor choice for any type of fragrance work.

Samrah

Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:36:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Huette von Ahrens <ahrenshav at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] OT: sandalwood, oppopanax & amber (was
	suppliers)
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Have you looked lately, Samrah, dear?

I found these sites, who say they sell Opopanax, without too much  
effort.

http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/candle/candle.php
http://mayaherbs.com/product_info.phtml/herbid_237/category_incenses
http://www.naturensdroger.se/enter.html?target=p_709.html&lang=sv

I could have listed several more, but their sites are not in English.

Huette

Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 08:07:53 -0500
From: Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise <jenne at fiedlerfamily.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] sauders/sandlewood
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

> I don't remember seeing any replies to this question. If I remember
> correctly, there are two types of sandlewood/sauders. One produces a
> good red color ad is used in foods. The other doesn't, but has a nice
> smell and is used in perfumery and such.

"Saunders" ie red sandalwood, is the powdered wood of Pterocarpus
santalina. It's not aromatic.

Yellow sandalwood is the wood of Santalum album, a parasitic tree, no
relation to saunders.

This is according to _Dangerous Tastes: A History of Spices_ by Andrew
Darby.
-- 
-- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, Knowledge Pika jenne at fiedlerfamily.net 

Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 14:40:55 -0500
From: Daniel Myers <edoard at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] sauders/sandlewood
To: jenne at fiedlerfamily.net,	Cooks within the SCA
	<sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Jan 4, 2007, at 8:07 AM, Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise wrote:

>> I don't remember seeing any replies to this question. If I remember
>> correctly, there are two types of sandlewood/sauders. One produces a
>> good red color ad is used in foods. The other doesn't, but has a nice
>> smell and is used in perfumery and such.
>
> "Saunders" ie red sandalwood, is the powdered wood of Pterocarpus
> santalina. It's not aromatic.
>
> Yellow sandalwood is the wood of Santalum album, a parasitic tree, no
> relation to saunders.

Please note that yellow sandalwood is not safe for human
consumption.  Further, don't use sandalwood oil in cooking - it's
likely to be yellow sandalwood oil, and the concentration of the
hazardous compounds is much, much higher.

- Doc

Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:16:55 -0500
From: Daniel Myers <edoard at medievalcookery.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] sauders/sandlewood
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

On Jan 4, 2007, at 2:53 PM, Susan Fox wrote:

>> Please note that yellow sandalwood is not safe for human
>> consumption.  Further, don't use sandalwood oil in cooking - it's
>> likely to be yellow sandalwood oil, and the concentration of the
>> hazardous compounds is much much higher.
>>
>> - Doc
>>
> I've been gifted with a bottle of sandalwood syrup from the middle
> east.  I'm at work and the bottle is at home so I can't say right now
> where it's from exactly - the donor brought it from Qatar.  I wonder
> what the flavoring agent could be then?  It does smell lovely, like
> sandalwood.  I might drizzle it over baklava but certainly won't
> use it to drown my pancakes.

Did some more digging.  My reasons were a bit off, but the advice
remains the same.

It could very well be yellow sandalwood flavoring that syrup.  It's
used in some Ayurvedic and herbal medicines and isn't regulated by
the FDA (then again, no "dietary supplements" are regulated by the
FDA and several of them have turned out to be very unhealthy (e.g.
ephedra, kava kava)).

iHerb.com (an herbal medicine store) has this to say about their
yellow sandalwod:
[ http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetContent.aspx?
token=e0498803-7f62-4563-8d47-5fe33da65dd4&chunkiid=21864 ]

"Sandalwood oil appears to be relatively safe, but it has not
undergone comprehensive safety testing; in general, essential oil can
have toxic and even fatal effects when taken in sufficient doses,
especially by children. Allergic reactions caused by direct contact
with sandalwood oil occur relatively frequently.  Sandalwood oil
should not be used by young children, pregnant or nursing women, or
people with severe liver or kidney disease."

Stony Mountain Botanicals has the following note:
[ http://www.wildroots.com/sandalwood-oil-fl-oz-p-1277.html ]

"For external use only. Dilute properly. Keep out of reach of children."

I guess the important point to stress is that the essential oils sold
for aromatherapy and soap making are not meant as food or as a food
additive.  I wouldn't want to tell someone to add 2 Tbsp of
sandalwood to a dish and have them use yellow sandalwood oil.

Compare this to red sandalwood powder - if you put too much of it
into your food ... the food tastes like sawdust.

Also, at least in the European sources I've seen, saunders is always
used as a *red* colorant, and the fragrance is never mentioned.

- Doc

Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:57:40 -0700
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Foodgrade Sandlewood

Mora of Dragonmarsh wrote:
<<< Food grade Sandalwood is also called Saunders.

We carry both the Yellow/Tan version = Sandalwood Tan Powder (Santalum
album)  1/2 oz $2.95

Also Red Sandalwood Powder - slightly cinnamon taste - (Pterocarpus
santalinus) 1/2 oz $2.95.
1/2 oz is approximately 1/3 of a cup by volume for recipe use.

20% Discounts for 1 lb packages- get together and save.

All our herbs and spices are pharmacy grade. >>>

True Sandalwood, Santalum albumm -- sometimes called White Sandalwood 
-- although it is more of a very pale tannish yellow color -- is not 
considered safe to eat. This is the sandalwood with the lovely 
fragrance.

What i usually see called for in SCA period recipes is Red Sandalwood 
/ Red Sanders / Red Saunders, Pterocarpus santalinus. This had little 
flavor but adds an interesting warm red color to dishes.

I don't want people to injure themselves or their diners using true 
Sandalwood in their food.
-- 
Urtatim [that's err-tah-TEEM]
the persona formerly known as Anahita

Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 18:11:29 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>, 	Johnna
	Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>, Terri Morgan <online2much at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Cooking qustion

First, what is called for here is red saunders, which is NOT true sandalwood. In fact, true sandalwood (Santalum album and other Santalum spp.) is not safe to consume. Red saunders, aka red sanders, aka red sandalwood (Pterocarpus santalinus) can be purchased on-line, so it's not that hard to get.

Second, it has little to no flavor if properly prepared and used. It needs to be a very fine powder, and one should not use giant globs of it. The only times i've heard of problems have  been when either the red saunders was not powdered properly so there was splinters and chunks of it in the dish or when the cook in an effort to get a bright red used huge quantities of it. If you powder it yourself, SIFT IT before using. And don't expect it to be bright red. It will be a brick pink.

Third, since it can be purchased on-line, i don't see a real reason to use red food coloring.

Four, if one is set on going the artificial coloring route, well, common red food coloring is the wrong color. Powdered red saunders is rather brick red, so when diluted in the apple mus it is the pinkish version of brick red, a warm pink without blue overtones.

I have made apple mus colored with red saunders.

Urtatim (that's urr-tah-TEEM)

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris	Sandalwood-msg	Page  of