Title: non-SCA-part-msg
Subject: Having partners that are not interested in the SCA.
Author: Edited by Mark Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: SCA, sociology, partners, non-SCA, couple

non-SCA-part-msg - 7/29/97

Dealing with partners who are not in the SCA. Introducing your significant other to the SCA.

NOTE: See also the files: SCA-as-family-msg, SCA-gays-msg, SCA-reasons-msg, SCA-The-Dream-msg, romance-today-msg, SCA-romance-msg, Love-in-th-MA-art.

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: donna at envy.kwantlen.bc.ca (Donna Hrynkiw)
Date: 25 Oct 91 22:59:00 GMT

Greetings to the Rialto from Elizabeth Bradewoode.

SCADIAN ROMANCE:
There is something I forgot to say in my last posting concerning romantic
affiliations in the SCA. I know of several couples where one partner plays
SCA and the other doesn't. Locally they're called "mixed marriages". They
seem to either work very well or not at all. It seems to me that the SCA so
easily becomes a life-style that it is difficult to mix with the modern
world on such an intimate level. (That isn't very clear, let me try
again.) Once you become assimilated into the SCA, trying to keep it out of
your every-day life (ie your relationship with your non-SCA partner) is
close to impossible.

Elizabeth "E.B." Braidwood                Donna Hrynkiw
Lions Gate, An Tir                        Kwantlen College
donna at envy.kwantlen.bc.ca                 Surrey, B.C. 

From: CHANCELL at primenet.com (David Chancellor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Non-SCA partners
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:15:53 PST

Unto the Good Gentles of the Rialto:

Greetings,

I wish to ask your opinion of how best to deal with a spouse/partner that is 
not interested in the SCA.  I am anxious to participate fully in this 
fascinating Society, but my dear wife, whom I love very much, is concerned by 
the time and money that my involvement might lead to.  In addition, I think 
she is of the opinion that people who dress silly and pretend to be characters 
from the past are not the type of folks that she wants her husband to become 
involved with.  Does anyone out there have any suggestions or experiences that 
might enable me to show her that there is nothing to worry about.  Or even 
opinions or observations of such "mixed marriages" in general?  I eagerly 
await any responses.

Sincerely,
David
wango at primenet.com

From: brucep135 at aol.com (Bruce P135)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Non-SCA partners
Date: 20 Jul 1995 00:25:38 -0400

When I first joined the Society, I was involved in a "mixed marriage." 
That marriage has since ended.  Sadly, many find that having one partner
in the Society places great stress on a relationship.  (Some folk go so
far as to say that it cannot work.  I will not go that far.)

If you would like to get your significant other into the Society, explain
it this simply:  In the Society, she will see you at your best.

In your service,
Master Niccolo Gianfigliazzi Genovese, O.P.

From: fruitbat at canberra.DIALix.oz.au (Paul Sleigh)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Non-SCA partners
Date: 20 Jul 1995 20:46:06 +1000
Organization: DIALix Services, Canberra, Australia.

David Chancellor (CHANCELL at primenet.com) wrote:
: Unto the Good Gentles of the Rialto:
: I wish to ask your opinion of how best to deal with a spouse/partner that is 
: not interested in the SCA.  I am anxious to participate fully in this 
: fascinating Society, but my dear wife, whom I love very much, is concerned by 
: the time and money that my involvement might lead to.  In addition, I think 
: she is of the opinion that people who dress silly and pretend to be characters 
: from the past are not the type of folks that she wants her husband to become 
: involved with.

Oh dear.  I had a sort of a fling (you know - Just Good Friends With An 
Active Sex Life) with a Mundane recently.  She was such a Mundane, she 
even thought I was saying she was mundane!  Which she wasn't -- she was 
absobloodylutely INCREDIBLE!

A good friend, a kindred spirit, a magnificent hugger, passionate, 
intelligent and _totally_ not my type.  

We parted ways not because I was Laureate (my word for SCAdian) and she 
wasn't, but simply because we were too different in other ways.  So maybe 
my experience is irrelevant here...

I discovered a tendency to be more of a Mundane with her around -- I even 
forewent a feast I'd prepaid for to spend another evening in her arms 
and company and bed.  I also discovered a strong disinclination to 
introduce her to my Laureate friends, because I felt sure she would be as 
critical of them as she was of the Society.

I believe this lady and I could have been (and, given the vaguaries of human 
nature, could still be) close friends and even JGFWAASL, but only if I 
further concentrated on separating Paul Sleigh from Eric of Tobar 
Mhuire.  I could never be Eric with her, because she alone of all my 
friends has no interest in Eric.

A far better solution for me will be to find, when I am again ready for some 
such commitment, either a Laureate lady or someone who might be willing to 
accept a cure for her tragic Mundania.  But if you're married and you 
know you've found She who is your brightest love, then perhaps you need 
to cultivate the separation of personae.  It's possible, and maybe even 
advantageous (every problem is just an opportunity with bad PR management).

I wish you luck, and the grace of your favourite god.

Yours in Service,

-- Eric of Tobar Mhuire (to my King)
-- Paul Sleigh (to my boss)
-- Eric the Fruitbat (to my friends -- it's the nickname of _both_ of the 
   previous personae)

+--Eric the Fruitbat--fruitbat at canberra.DIALix.oz.au--Paul Sleigh--+

From: STJU43A at prodigy.com (Steven Frey)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Non-SCA partners
Date: 20 Jul 1995 15:15:05 GMT

I have no Idea what that last bit of that last post was about....
(not sure i want to )
Non SCA partners can be hard sometimes most of my relationships have been 
with non members. The best I can tell you is go with the flow. Spend you 
time with both..tends to get lopsided toward the partner...and try to 
slowly work them in to the SCA if you think that there is a chance that 
they might enjoy it. If there is a snowballs chance in hell that they 
will don't force the issue. That will only lead to ruin. Also tell them 
well in advance of an event you plan to go to.
                                                                          
            Angus Foster McKenzie                                                                
             Steven Frey

From: Pat McGregor <PatriciaX_O_McGregor at ccm.fm.intel.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Non-SCA partners
Date: 21 Jul 1995 17:31:11 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Folsom CA, USA

Milord Eric wrote:
> But if you're married and you 
> know you've found She who is your brightest love, then perhaps you need 
> to cultivate the separation of personae.  It's possible, and maybe even 
> advantageous (every problem is just an opportunity with bad PR management).

While I am not certain that these relationships ever work very well
(I, too, am parted from a past husband who, among other things,
came to dislike the Society), I do think that if you and your partner
truly believe that each of you deserve separate activities, then
you can do better at making it work.

Of course, you need to realize that if you go off for a day/weekend
to be at an event, she must be allowed to go off for a day/weekend
to do something she's interested in and you're not. You have to be
fair to her, too.

If she's not willing to cultivate a separate interest, or to
nurture those interests of hers which could grow into a passionate
interest, then you need to think about how attached she might be
and how inhibited your love for the Society would be, and make your
choices accordingly.
 
siobhan

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: hamacee at planet.mh.dpi.qld.gov.au (Eddy Hamacek)
Subject: Re: Non-SCA partners
Organization: DPI
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 00:41:14 GMT

CHANCELL at primenet.com says...

>I wish to ask your opinion of how best to deal with a spouse/partner that is 
>not interested in the SCA.  I am anxious to participate fully in this 
>fascinating Society, but my dear wife, whom I love very much, is concerned by 
>the time and money that my involvement might lead to. <snip> Or even 
>opinions or observations of such "mixed marriages" in general?  I eagerly 
>await any responses.
>
>David
>wango at primenet.com

I have survived in a mixed marriage for 12 years now. I have been lucky in that my wife is very tolerant. Over the years she has become a fringe member. She has 
learned to recognize the A&S classes she wants to attend and she also makes it to a fair number of feasts.

There are two reasons why we have managed for this for so long. Firstly and 
foremost is my lady is very patient, the second is a matter of managing my time. I have had to recognize that I cannot devote as much time as I would like to my 
favorite hobby (or should I say set of hobbies?) so that I can make time for my 
lady. There are still times now when she gets jealous but by making time away from the SCA makes it tolerable.

I must add that over the years my lady has made many friends within the SCA and is sorely missed when she doesn't attend events. Gosh we are a tolerant bunch, even to outsiders :-)

Rashid al Faqih

From: IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu (I. Marc Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: re: Non-SCA partners
Date: 20 Jul 1995 13:50:17 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway

<David Chancellor (CHANCELL at primenet.com)>:
>I wish to ask your opinion of how best to deal with a spouse/partner that is 
>not interested in the SCA.  I am anxious to participate fully in this 
>fascinating Society, but my dear wife, whom I love very much, is concerned by 
>the time and money that my involvement might lead to.  In addition, I think 
>she is of the opinion that people who dress silly and pretend to be characters 
>from the past are not the type of folks that she wants her husband to become 
>involved with.

Hmm.  Not good at all.

Let me start by saying that I effectively banned SCA things from the house 
for almost six years (Graduate School + SCA burnout) during which time my
wife burst her rear earning her Laurelate.  I kept my membership paid up,
helped out on a few local projects that the shire needed help on, and
attended the events we put on, mostly because it was the polite thing to
do.

So I think I am qualified to discuss some of the problems inherent in an
SCA person married to a Non-SCA person.  In our relationship it had a lot
to do with the levels of trust and commitment that we both have to the
marriage.  I was certain that she was not going to cheat on me at SCA
things (and if she had, the rumors would have reached me by now), and
that when I started feeling neglected and abandoned to her doing SCA things,
that I could tell her this without upsetting her (I did however develop
the odd habit of referring to our Seneschal as her "Boyfriend").

OTOH, the only restriction I felt I could place on her was that she not
drive to events in other cities by herself, since I worried about her
getting stuck on the side of a highway alone in the middle of the night.

In return, I never tried to force her to do the things I wanted to do
mundanely, but tried to remember to leave time for us to do the things we
both enjoyed together.

I hope you are not placed in the position of feeling that you have to pick
between your girlfriend and your SCA activities.

"Mihi Satis Apparet Propter     Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn
  Se Ipsum Appetenda Sapientia"	University of Northkeep
 -- St. Dunstan			Northkeepshire, Ansteorra
				(I. Marc Carlson/IMC at vax2.utulsa.edu)

From: "Brett W. McCoy" <p01335 at psilink.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Non-SCA partners
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 15:59:28 -0500
Organization: DIOGENES/FOI Services, Inc.

>DATE:   Wed, 19 Jul 1995 10:15:53 PST
>FROM:   David Chancellor <CHANCELL at primenet.com>
>
>I wish to ask your opinion of how best to deal with a spouse/partner that is 
>not interested in the SCA.  I am anxious to participate fully in this 
>fascinating Society, but my dear wife, whom I love very much, is concerned by 
>the time and money that my involvement might lead to.  In addition, I think 
>she is of the opinion that people who dress silly and pretend to be characters 
>from the past are not the type of folks that she wants her husband to become 
>involved with.  Does anyone out there have any suggestions or experiences that 
>might enable me to show her that there is nothing to worry about.  Or even 
>opinions or observations of such "mixed marriages" in general?  I eagerly 
>await any responses.

This is a situation I am trying to deal with, although perhaps to a
lesser degree than your's.  My wife has no problem with my SCA
activities, although she is concerned with the time and money factors.
I've taken her to a couple of events, and she complained that she was
bored and felt that she just didn't fit in.  But one thing that I did
have to point out to her was that I had been involved with medieval
recreation several years before I met her (although it wasn't the SCA),
and that I did try to include her in the Game, it just wasn't her
thing, I guess.  She does like the people who come over,
although she does get tired of hearing us talk about swords and armour
for four hours straight nearly every single night.  And I can 
understand that, too.  I try to do what I can to include her in and not 
ignore her.  I think that perhaps that could be part of the problem of 
the "mixed marriage", the fear of being ignored, which eventually leads 
to jealousy and resentment.

How long have you been in the SCA?  Is it something new for the both of 
you?  And as for being silly and wearing funny clothes and pretending 
to be people from the past, if she feels uncomfortable about you 
hanging out with these kind of people, she fell in love with you and 
married you, and you're on of those people, so it seems she found 
*something* intriguing about it, no?  And I think it's important to 
give time to what she likes to do, even if you don't really like it a 
whole lot.  If you do that, she may warm up to your SCA activities.

I have also found that, after immersing myself in the chivalrous and 
courtly graces of the SCA, I find that I am more sensitive to my wife's 
needs, that my thoughts are more organized, I'm taking on 
responsibilities better, and I feel that I'm more in control of myself. 
And my wife has noticed this, too, and I'm sure yours will as well.

Istvan Dragosani                      | "Go not to the Elves for counsel,
bmccoy at capaccess.org                  |        for they will say 
Minstrel, Mage, Sage, Wooer of Women, |         both no and yes"     
and General Friend of All Nature...   |         -- JRR Tolkien

From: crouchet at infinity.ccsi.com (James Crouchet)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Non-SCA partners
Date: 27 Jul 1995 21:24:37 GMT
Organization: Commuter Communication Systems

I have seen quite a few attempts at "mixed" relationships and I have seen 
a lot of solutions tried. The end result is usually the same; the SCAer 
drops out or the two people split and move on.

In many of these situations the relationships already had other problems 
and the participant (as some have told me they came to realize later) 
were looking for an emotional escape without realizing it.

And as for escapes, man do we have escapes! Booze, sex, alternative 
viewpoints, intellectual discussions, what if discussions, easy 
acceptance, and activities you can become obsessed with (A&S, Fighting, 
Offices, etc) are all easily available to most SCAers. The SCA is an 
emotional playground where you can really forget a troubled relationship.

Now if you and your S.O. are comfortable and happy together and you both 
enjoy a LOT of time apart with plenty of seperate activities it is a 
different story. I have known two couples like this and one in particular 
liked to get together after and share their stories and (as they put it) 
renew their bond. 

But if your S.O. does not want to be away from you so much and resents 
your SCA activities I suspect that active membership will kill your 
relationship (if it is even still viable).

Of course, this is all a generalization baised on the mixed relationships
I have seen and been in. I am sure others can offer lots of anticdotes
where it worked out for somebody but the score by my count is still 2 for
(and those 2 didn't start with a problem), some number larger than 15
against. 

Savian

From: baronfum at aol.com (Baron Fum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mixed Marrages
Date: 20 Dec 1995 23:13:33 -0500

     I met my wife at the fourth Pennsic War.  It was her first real
event.  Perhaps that set the tone for things to come.  She was involved
for a few years but after some "personal" problems arose with other
members, and because hse always felt somewhat alienated and left out, she
became disenchanted with the group and is not only no longer active, but
she pretty much detests the group and resents my continued involvement. 
Obviously from my signature I have been quite involves myself.  You can't
get two peerages and a barony without some pretty heavy involvement.  I
think this constitutes a "mixed" marriage pretty well.  I would say that
things are sometimes, if not often, a little rocky.  It isn't perfect by
any means, but few real relationships are.  After all none of us live in
the fairy tales where everyone lives happily ever after.  Besides, if you
really read the old fairy tales you'll find out that some of them are
pretty grim indeed.  Though it isn't perfect, it has worked to some extent
because we have been married for nearly twenty years and have four
children.  On the other hand, my involvement with the SCA is one of the
major stress points which most other stress points revolve around. 
There's no easy answer.  Sometimes it can work, often it doesn't.  That
is, however, true of relationships as a whole.  All you can do is work on
it and try to accomodate the differences involved.  Marriage, like true
fealty, isn't easy- it's hard work.  You will only get a return if you
invest heavily in it and are willing to take some losses, to accept some
pain along with the pleasure.  If you can endure, so can the relationship.
 As Nietze said, "That which doesn't kill you makes you strong."  I hope
this was at least somewhat illuminating, and best of luck to you all.

Ritter Baron Karl Aerdigwidder von Zauberberg, C.P.
Baron Andelcrag, Middle Kingdom
Saepe errabimus sed semper honore!
Morte ex morte

From: raine at postoffice.ptd.net (Charlotte Diehm)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mixed Marrages
Date: 21 Dec 1995 13:55:19 GMT
Organization: ProLog - PenTeleData, Inc.

Oh, my, yes, there are others out here who have what might be called a 
conflict of interest!  I've been married 22 years and the man I am 
married to is no way a SCAdian!  He thinks what I do in the society is 
foolish and a waste of time.  He gets a bit miffed when I spend more 
time with society things that with him.  We have, however, managed to 
work out some compromises.  When he is feeling particularly neglected I 
consider seriously just how important whatever I am currently involved 
in is.  If it is very important (such as a scroll deadline) I generally 
go ahead and finish it.  If, however, it is of minor importance, such as 
a demo I merely want to attend, I will graciously apologize and spend 
time with Paul.  

Being in a "mixed-marriage" has its drawbacks but it also has its 
pluses.  My mundane hubby keeps me grounded by reminding me of the place 
the society has in life.  His pragmatic attitude helps keep those petty 
little political moments from attaining an importance they don't 
deserve.

Compromise is the key to this relationship.  He goes to 1-2 events a 
year with me (he even wears a tunic!!) and I pass up 1-2 events to be 
with him.  In the end we both manage to work out our differences.  He 
is, by the way, my best critic when I need someone to be honest about a 
scroll I'm doing and he was my biggest fan when I got my Scyamore from 
Aethelmearc!  It's the SCA he finds silly, not me.

Hope this helps?  If you would like to discuss this more, contact me 
privately <raine at postoffice.ptd.net>.

Raine Devereaux

From: moondrgn at bga.com (Chris and Elisabeth Zakes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mixed Marrages
Date: 22 Dec 1995 05:04:01 GMT
Organization: Real/Time Communications - Bob Gustwick and Associates

In article <4ba9j1$pqq at news.ccit.arizona.edu>, kolton at arizona.edU says...
>
>Kinda of a goofy question, but do mixed marages (sp?) work. 
>
>Lord Jason Thorne

Well, I met and married my wife in the SCA, and we've been doing the 
"happily ever after" bit (or at least a reasonable facsimilie) for 13+ 
years, so I can only comment on what I've observed in others. 
My observation is that, in general, either the relationship goes, or the SCA 
goes. I'm pleased to see that there are folks out there who *are* making a 
mixed marriage work, but I note that it isn't easy for them.
-- 
C and E Zakes
Tivar Moondragon (Patience and Persistence)
and Aethelyan of Moondragon (Decadence is its own reward)
moondrgn at bga.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: SJB <SJBoley at switch.com>
Subject: Re: Mixed Marrages
Organization: US&S
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 15:23:03 GMT

I have a very successful "mixed marriage", but you do have to 
compromise.  Before our twin sons were born, our deal was:
one event a month; If I go to an event on Saturday, I don't
go to a fighter practise Sunday.  Actually, other mundane
considerations limited my access to the SCA more, and since
the babies were born....
But I intend to take them to SCA events when they get older.
To base a true love relationship  on involvement in the SCA 
is a poor idea.  I really enjoy my envolvement, but my family
is FAR more important. My wife also finds some aspects of the
SCA "too weird" (and my in-laws are right out), but she
understands that it's important to me and lets me play.  
Being involved with another who is into the SCA is no 
guarantee of success.  After thinking about it, I know more
divorced couples who were both into the SCA than "mixed" couple
divorces.  I make no conclusions here.  
If you find the right girl who is truely interested in you but
not the SCA, talk about how you both can compromise.  Games can
be great fun; relationships with one you love is infinately more
important.
-- 
DeinBruder Alaric Von Konigsberg

From: John Aegard <johnzo at cyberus.ca>
To: markh at risc.sps.mot.com
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 19:59:15 -0400
Subject: Mixed Marriages in the SCA

Forgive my belated comment to the discussion, blame as my excuse my recent 
venturing into the internet (I live behind the times in more ways than one).

I laud all of the sensible opinions out there:  the most important thing
about a mixed marriage in the SCA is establishing where your priorities are.
I have seen mixed marriages not work (with some explosive results) and
I have also seen some quite messy and spectacular breakups within the SCA. 
Although I have seen more of the latter, I think the problems are more 
inherent in the players of the drama than with the SCA itself.  
My SO loves hockey and football.  I don't.  However, I make an attempt for him, 
and he does so for me when it comes to SCA.  We love each other, so we don't 
strain the other's patience thin by requiring a constant presence in each
others' activities.  He understands how important my SCA friends are to me,
and I can appreciate his desire to go out and get muddy at a football game
without my having to join him!
And you have to make choices: when I'm away a great deal at events, I have to
ackowledge his needs and spend some time with him, and he knows that wanting
to watch a football game when my family is having dinner is just not on. 
Nuff said.
There are other inherent problems that present themselves with mixed marriages, 
that aren't just problems with mixed marriages.  The SCA is somewhat of a moral
playground, and some people seem to dispense with the rules that our regular
society (note the small "s") has told us to live by.  If you have married, or
even not made it so legally official, you have made a commitment.  If you have
an "open" marriage, that's your business, but jealousy comes from a feeling of
being displaced in someone's eyes.  Be prepared to resist the temptation the
SCA has to offer to "forget" about those real life commitments. (And I don't 
just mean the physical temptations.  Becoming a peer for the sake of your
own popularity may be fun, but I can take a tremendous toll on your 
relationships).
Be that as it may, one thing you may wish to consider:  at the end of the day, 
who are you going to be spending the rest of your life with?  If you can't 
answer that question honestly to yourself, you have more things to worry about
in relationships than whether or not it will survive the SCA.
I know where I stand!

I have gone into the part of my character I hate the most:  my tendency to 
preach.  Forgive me my words and please read my intent, and I hope somewhere
in this I haven't just repeated what everyone else has said.

Continuing to Dream;
Lady Anne Tinker
(mka Sue Corbishley)

From: BetNoir <betnoir at earthlink.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mundane Spouses
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:27:03 -0700

Dick Eney wrote:
> In article <19970428152901.LAA08742 at ladder01.news.aol.com>,
> SLarm1 <slarm1 at aol.com> wrote:
> >Greetings Gentles All
> >    I am a lapsed member who is interested in re-entering the SCA. My
> >problem lies in that my spouse is totally mundane and expresses no
> >interest in the Society.  Since attending events more than very
> >sporadicaly would put an undue strain on our marriage I am seeking
> >suggestions as to how to interest her in the SCA.

> What does she _already_ have an interest in?
(snippage)
> Warning:  some people are wholly mundane, for whatever reason, and have no
> interest in anything but the present.  Sometimes Scadians love these
> people for their many sterling qualities.  Sometimes you just have to be
> a fringe member, appearing only sporadically.  You could have a wandering
> persona (troubadour, on a quest, trader with a regular route, etc) to
> 'explain' being around only occasionally.

This bothers me a bit.  Why MUST you try to coerce your spouse into
being involved in the SCA if he/she has no interest?

My husband is one of those.  He supports my desire to participate
(sometimes by making SURE I do get up early on....yawn...Saturday
morning to get to events), but he has no desire himself to play there. 
Conversely, he has interests that I choose not to participate in.  While
I am off at SCA events, he works on his rockets.

I would never think of trying to 'force' him into the SCA.  Aside from
the fact he is as Irish-stubborn as they come, why should I try to make
him participate in an activity he doesn't enjoy?  There are plenty of
other activities we can share in.

My advice...go to your events if you wish.  If your spouse wants to
'test the water,' that's great!  If not, be sure to find other non-SCA
events that both of you can particpate in.

One last thing....if you are a fighter, it is nice to try and still
'salute' the person you are fighting for.  I will pick the general
direction of where my husband is at and salute.  No one has to know that
he/she is not there, and you are still acknowledging your spouse's
importance to you.
-- 
Tiana di Redondo

From: manth at ozemail.com.au (Aramanth Dawe)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mundane Spouses
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 20:45:30 GMT
Organization: OzEmail Ltd - Australia

slarm1 at aol.com (SLarm1) wrote:

>    I am a lapsed member who is interested in re-entering the SCA. My
>problem lies in that my spouse is totally mundane and expresses no
>interest in the Society.  Since attending events more than very
>sporadicaly would put an undue strain on our marriage I am seeking
>suggestions as to how to interest her in the SCA.
>     
>        Stephan von Hesse (Celebgil)
>        aka Steve Larmer

Why would attending the SCA more than sporadically put a strain on
your marriage?  My lord has attended a few SCA functions and felt very
uncomfortable, but can understand that I enjoy them.  OTOH, he really
enjoys wargaming (with minatures), which leaves me cold.  We discussed
together how frequently we would be prepared to allow the other to go
out alone to indulge and came up with an acceptable timeframe which
allows us time together to grow as a couple yet time apart to enjoy
our own interests.

Presently we are spending vast amounts of time in raising 2 small
children, and both the SCA and wargaming have had to come in second,
but we accept that this is a necessary and temporary inconveniancew
only that will pay dividends in the long run.

Many other gentles have made good suggestions about interesting your
lady in the medieval aspects of her current interests and this too is
a good thing.  There is a joy in being able to share interests that is
delightful in a marriage.  It should not blind you to the fact that
there is also a pleasure in following your own interests despite your
lady's disinterest, and giving her the right to do the same.

Aramanth  
--
From the Hallowed Portals of House le Mowbus.
manth at ozemail.com.au
Aramanth Dawe, 
Adelaide, Australia

From: flanna at pobox.alaska.net
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mundane Spouses
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 17:43:21 GMT
Organization: Internet Alaska Inc.

slarm1 at aol.com (SLarm1) wrote:

>    I am a lapsed member who is interested in re-entering the SCA. My
>problem lies in that my spouse is totally mundane and expresses no
>interest in the Society.  Since attending events more than very
>sporadicaly would put an undue strain on our marriage I am seeking
>suggestions as to how to interest her in the SCA.
>     
>        Stephan von Hesse (Celebgil)
>        aka Steve Larmer

After going thru most of the responses to date, I'd add something else
I think is very important: introduce her to some of the ladies of the
group, or at least the local Baroness, Seneshal's wife or Chatelaine
before she actually attends an event and have them introduce her
around while you go fight if that's what you do. One of the biggest
hassles for  spouses is standing there feeling abandoned at an event
while the member goes off to play with their friends, totally unaware
of the problem. This way your lady will already know at least someone
she can talk to and ask questions of and feel that you are looking out
for her interests as well even if you aren't by her side all the time.
Treating her like visiting Royalty..hand kissing, bowing, etc. doesn't
hurt either...she may be uncomfortable with courtly attentions at
first, but will definitely feel flattered and cared for.

Warmest regards and good luck!
Flanna

From: raven at mcs.net (Raven (David M. Stowell))
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mundane Spouses
Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 23:43:33 GMT

On 03 May 1997 07:25:35 -0400, Bill Sommerfeld
<sommerfeld at orchard.east-arlington.ma.us> wrote:

>Hmm.  As an existance proof of the problem, I know of at least one
>"mixed marriage" and several long-term relationships which broke up
>when the member dumped the non-member for another member.  I don't
>know the details in all the cases so the rest is (mostly) speculation,
>but...
>
>I think it really depends on the member's attitude towards the SCA,
>and how stable the relationship is.  If the member participates in the
>SCA primarily for the social aspects (rather than the hobby or
>sporting aspects) this may be viewed by the non-member as indication
>that something is missing in the relationship.

There seems to be an assumption here that one's social needs can all
be resolved in the context of a monogamous marriage. If you wish to
define it as such, so be it. While this may work for some couples, it
is not necessarily the case for all.

>The flirting, etc., which often goes on at events may (perhaps
>correctly) be viewed by the non-member as a threat.. 

Depends on the context and how you define "threat".

>I suspect that
>they may harbor a secret worry that their partner might find a "knight
>in shining armor"/"fairy tale princess" they'd rather spend their life
>with.

Given your statements, the problem may not be a question of what the
SCA as such will do to your marraige, but what *any* outside stimuli
will do to it.

Let me tell you a story. I was happily involved with someone who had
no connection to fannish/SCA life, while I became more involved with
it. At one point, I wished that I would find someone whose interests
were closer to mine. Sure enough, following Raven's Rule of Wishes
("If you truly wish for something, you will get it - exactly as worded
and with all attendant consequences"), I fell in with a seriously
active SCAdian. Because of this, I broke off with the person that I
had been seeing (not once but twice), changed home towns, married the
SCAdian, and ended up divorced in five months after what one may call
a tepestuous relationship. Is this the fault of my involvement with
the SCA? No. It is the fault of *my* confusing my involvement with my
overall social goals - there would have been no problem maintaining
the original relationship had I internally defined my social goals
more clearly.

In other words, if your relationship is stable, and you know what you
want out of that relationship and out of the SCA, there should be no
problem.
----------------
Raven (David M. Stowell)
<raven at mcs.net>

From: "Cheri J. Corbett" <rainmaker at sprintmail.com>
To: markh at risc.sps.mot.com
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 10:56:05 -0600
Organization: Raven Images

On the subject of mixed marriages in the Society...Recently, my fiancee
and I split due to many differences in what we believe in  (religion,
world-views, etc). I met him at his first SCA event, and while he never
wanted to get involved with the Society after that, I still played a
little. Eventually, "a little" became "not-at-all", and the dear friends
that I'd had in the Society maybe saw me one a year. It came down to a
choice that I had to make, every time I wanted to go to an event: did I
want to go to an event and have him diapprove and get sullen when I got
home? Or did I do what he wanted to do, like park my butt on the couch
and watch the Broncos at his parents house? You guessed it... I got to
know John Elway's stats very well, in the interest of keeping our
relationship smooth. I gave away my garb, gave up on doing scrollwork
and calligraphy...I even passed up going to Twelfth Night in favor of
watching him perform with his band at a seedy little nightclub in
Aurora. The sick part of all of that was that I had actually convinced
myself that I was happy with the situation.

Okay, so now that I've returned from living in Mundania, I guess that
each mixed marriage is different, some able to be successful, others
not, depending on the trust and level of compromise between partners. I
have learned, however, just how important participating in the Society
is for me. I have my friends back, my illumination and art back.

Compromise if you must and can, but question any relationship that takes
away the very things that you love and are part of what you are.

Thank Heaven I'm Home...
Lady Sadhbh Ni Dhonnabhain
(Cheri J. Corbett)
Outlands

<the end>

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