Title: Bayeux-Tap-msg
Subject: The Bayeux Tapestry
Author: Edited by Mark Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: medieval, books, tapestries, Bayeux Tapestry, weaving, embroidery

Bayeux-Tap-msg - 3/1/08

Information about the Bayeux Tapestry. Book reviews.

NOTE: See also the files: embroidery-msg, emb-linen-msg, emb-blackwork-msg,  tapestries-msg, weaving-msg, cross-stitch-msg, 8-P-Stitches-art, Couching-art.

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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Re: WHOLE Bayeux Tapestry?
Date: 3 Feb 92 
From: grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu (Gretchen Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: Comp & Comm - Computer Operations, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

The Mystery of the Bayeux tapestry is a wonderful book!  It has a full
(unfortuantely black and white) reproduction of the tapestry, pictures
of the back (if you're interested in stitching), a chapter on the
marginalia, etc, etc. Here's the card catalog listing from the CMU
library.

toodles, gretchen

Author       Bernstein, David J.
Title        The mystery of the BAYEUX tapestry / David J. Bernstein.
Publisher    Chicago : University of Chicago Press, 1987, c1986.
Description  book  272 p. : ill. (some col.) ; 27 cm.
Subjects     BAYEUX tapestry.
Notes        Includes index.  Bibliography: p. 198-229.
Date         1987
Language     english
Standard No. 0226044009
OCLC No.     15053135

Re: WHOLE Bayeux Tapestry?
4 Feb 92 
From: gwilym at micor.ocunix.on.ca (Bill Sanderson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.

Greetings from Gwilym

There is a small 1/7th reproduction of the whole Bayeux Tapestry
available in Bayeux at the Cathedrale. The publisher is 
Edition Artaud Freres 44477  50, Place Champlain,14000 Caen, France.
The title is La Tapisserie de Bayeux, and the edition we own 
cost 4.50FFR 10 years ago. It's still in print, my mother-in-law
picked up a copy last year.

Gwilym ap Alun                  Bill Sanderson
Skrealing Althing         South Mountain, Ontario
Ealdormere, Midrealm                      Canada
gwilym at micor.ocunix.on.ca

Subj: Re: WHOLE Bayeux Tapestry?
Date: 4 Feb 92 
From: habura at vccsouth27.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY

Horizon, a periodical published in hardcover format until about 1975, did a
layout on the entire Tapestry in the mid-Sixties, probably to celebrate the
anniversary mentioned previously. Horizon was published quarterly, and the
Tapestry was its feature article for that issue (there's a full-color large-
size photo of one piece on the cover), so it shouldn't be that difficult
to search for. Some photos are large enough so that the stitching pattern
may be discerned.

Alison MacDermot

Date:5 Feb 92 
From: ddfr at quads.uchicago.edu (david director friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

Matheus asks about the availability of a reproduction of the Bayeux
tapestry:

The Bayeux Tapestry by David Wilson, published by Knopf, New York,
1985, is a large art book with a good reproduction of the whole thing.

(Elizabeth, posting on Cariadoc's account)

WHOLE Bayeux Tapestry
Date: 7 Feb 92 
From: eabbott at unlinfo.unl.edu (eric abbott)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln

Greetings unto the good Gentles of the Rialto from Senyor 
Salvador Paolo de Barcelona, Shire of Mag Mor, Calontir

In response to m'lord Matheus, the exact volume of 
the National Geographic in which the Bayeaux Tapestry was 
shown.  It is Vol. 130 #2 August 1966 pp. 206-251.  It is a 
very good article and I hope it will help you.  

Yours in service to these current Middle-Ages,
Salvador

The WHOLE Bayeux Tapestry
Date: 7 Feb 92 
From: PRIEST at vaxsar.vassar.EDU (CAROLYN PRIEST-DORMAN)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Unto the Fishyfolk of the Rialto, greeting from Thora Sharptooth!

The best currently available book on the whole Bayeux Tapestry that I have seen is this one:

	David M. Wilson.  THE BAYEUX TAPESTRY (the complete tapestry in 	colour with introduction, description and commentary).  London:  
	Thames & Hudson Ltd., 1985.

This book contains consecutive photos of the entire tapestry, slightly larger
than half-size.  Embroiderers, this and no other will do for you:  the textures
and colors are marvelous!  The author is the director of the British Museum; he
says in the preface, "the glory of the book lies in the pictures that were
taken by Cliches Ville de Bayeux at the time of the rehanging of the Tapestry
in 1982-3."  (Photos of the BACK side of the tapestry were also taken at that
time, but they have not yet been published with the exception of one single
frame reproduced in David J. Bernstein's THE MYSTERY OF THE BAYEUX TAPESTRY [Chicago:  University of Chicago Press, 1986].)

A small fold-out version of the entire tapestry is also available in the book
THE AGE OF CHIVALRY (National Geographic Society, 1969).  It's easier to take
in the entirety of the piece when it's this small, but you lose a lot of the
charm too.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carolyn Priest-Dorman			Thora Sharptooth
Poughkeepsie, New York			Frosted Hills
priest at vassar.edu			East Kingdom
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subj: Bayeux Tapestry
Date: 7 Feb 92 
From: cat at piggy.fgs.slb.COM ("Catherine M. Helm")
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: The Internet

The book by National Geographic with the fold-out out of the entire
Bayeux Tapestry is: _The Middle Ages_, vol. III - The Story of Man
series, M.B. Grosvenor, F. Shor and M. Severy, Editors, published by
the National Geographic Society, c.1969, 1977, ISBN no. 0-87044-075-6

enjoy!
Twcs

Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:47:38 -0500
From: Becky Needham <betony at infinet.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Laid and Couched Book

P> I'll try to track down whatever you suggest at Amazon.com books and get
> myself a copy.
> 
> Vitale.

Vitale, 

One of the best I have seen on the Bayeux is Mogen Rud's "The Bayeux
Tapestry: The Battle of 1066."  You want the most current edition, which
I believe is '92.  However, it's costly and you might not find it on
Amazon.  Go through the ILL and get the book so you can get the address
of the source in London.  They may have it or know where you can get
it.  The first edition has a couple of errors in it as far as naming the
stitches, but if it's pictures you mostly want, snatch up whichever you
can get - excellent!  And the content of the text ain't bad, either! 
;->>

Bet

Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:25:51 +0000
From: Scot Eddy <seddy at vvm.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Laid and Couched Book

Peter Grooby wrote:
> I have been wanting to have a go at laid and couched work as seen on the
> Bayeux tapestry. <snip>
> 
> So can anyone recomend a good general purpose embroidery book that has
> lots of bright pictures of all the different sorts of stitches. 

HL Jovian Skleros posting for the first time here.

_The Mystery of the Bayeux Tapestry_ by David J. Bernstein 
ISBN 0 297 78928 7 is a very good book. Not only does it have the 
illustrations of the 2 stitches used in the tapestry, but there are 2 
photos of the back of the tapestry.

I had to go through a book finder to get my copy (about $60 for the 
book, but it's worth it!)

Jovian Skleros
Ansteorra

From: Becky Needham <betony at infinet.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Bayeux Tapestry

DianaFiona at aol.com wrote:
>  then they would use a powdery charcoal or blue pigment and "puff" the
>  powder through the holes leaving the outline on the fabric.  This is
>  similar to chalking a line in construction.  Like I said, this is only
>  hearsay from someone else but I will try my best to find the sources she
>  used. 
>  Lady Isabeau
>   >>
>      I know that they did this in Elizabethan times, but I'm not sure that
> they could do it that early. Pouncing really needs paper--I don't think it
    Ldy Diana

Bernstein theorizes that it was drawn on the cloth by an English monk or
apprentices under his watchful eye.  He bases this theory in "The
Mystery of the B. T" on the fact that it does have the look and feel of
several tomes in nearby monasteries and that elements on the Tapestry
itself show an English bent rather than Norman.  One instance that comes
mind right at the moment is the proper way to spell Gyrth using the
crossed D. Whatever was used apparently didn't stay with the cloth on
completion as there are visible stitch holes in the cloth with no
outline.  Nothing appears on the back unless the yarn covered it all and
I haven't seen any telltales on the front when using a magnifier or a
photo large enough.  You can draw on that type of linen - I've done it,
but it can be a pain.  I didn't use soft charcoal, though, and that
might work with an egg white fixative.

Bet

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 11:06:28 -0600 (CST)
From: Todd Lewis <telewis at comp.uark.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Bayeux Tapestry

        With regards to the question what embroiderers used to draw their
designs, I came across an interesting reference.  In Medieval Illuminators
and their Methods of Work (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1992), p. 38,
the author, Jonathan J.G. Alexander, mentions that illuminators ca.
1000-1200 used graphite to make preliminary sketches.  The finished
illuminations were done in ink and paint.
        I frequently use graphite markers (read pencils) when sketching
embroidery patterns onto muslin or linen.  Graphite is more difficult to
use on loosely woven fabrics, and mistakes are not really correctable--you
can't erase on cloth. But when the entire surface is either going to be
covered or the sketch represents the underside of the embroidery, I don't
see this as a big problem.  Graphite has the added advantage that it
doesn't bleed through the cloth, and the lines can be as light or as dark
as you desire.  And graphite does not come off on the thread.

                        Lord Henry Percivale Kempe
                        Shire-March of Grimfells
                        Calontir

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 10:01:59 +0000
From: Scot Eddy <seddy at vvm.com>
To: SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Bayeux Tapestry

Over the course of researching the Bayeux Tapestry I have come across
some radically different colors for the same figure. Talking to
friends who are much more knowledgeable about cameras told me that
this is natural. Different films, different light, etc wil yield
different results. There are only 7 colors on the Tapestry (grey,
black, ochre, lt blue., green, brick red, and brown) How can we know
whether the wool floss we are using is the correct color?

"Arms and Armor of the Medieval Knight" by Paddock has several
pictures. So does the Aug 1966 National Geographic (the whole thing
BTW) The very first full-color printing has some strange colors. The
tapestry is on the net, but they are all different shades.

DMC has a big pamphlet of all of their colors. If we use that as our
guide (everyone could potentially have access to one) could some
wonderful soul in Drackenwald, or who will be visiting soon, take the
color guide to Bayeux and check it against the actual Tapestry itself.
They could then report back that the green is closest to green 134 and
the grey is closest to grey 56, etc.

Without that we would alll be using different sources and our colors
would be "off."

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 14:55:57 EDT
From: froggestow at juno.com (Roberta R Comstock)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Bayeux Tapestry

I agree that it would be wonderful to have a matched reference set.  May
I offer a couple of caveats?

First, if at all possible, whoever does the matching should try to
arrange to see the back (= less faded) side of the work.  The publicly
displayed front side is undoubtedly faded.

Second, anyone who wants to duplicate the style of the 'tapestry' should
remember that it is embroidered in wool on a linen ground.
That's not to say that you can't do the same kind of stitches in cotton
or silk on some other kind of fabric; only pointing out that an authentic
approach would be done with wool yarn (probably something like
needlepoint or crewel yarns) on real linen fabric.

Hertha

Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 16:37:22 +0000
From: Scot Eddy <seddy at vvm.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Bayeux Tapestry

Good points Hertha. I have a book (I'll find out the title for
tomorrow if anyone is interested) It has 2 photos of the back and it
appears that the colors are nearly the same. For most of its 1000
years it was folded up and stored the the basement of a church so
fading due to sunlight would be minimal. I don't know much about
fading due to decomposition.

I suggested DMC as a guide since it would be readily available. Then
you could match a wool floss to the DMC color. I did the same figure
with DMC floss and wool floss. The cotton floss left gaps that let the
white linen show thru, but the wool floss was fluffier and filled in
better.

Jovian
Ansteorra

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 19:03:51 -0400
From: Karen at stierbach.atlantia.sca.org (Larsdatter, Karen )
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Bayeux Tapestry

I'm told that Renaissance Wools (sold through Madeira UK but not
available stateside) carry a set of wools that are dyed to match the
wools in the Bayeux Tapestry (they were able to figure out which
dyestuffs were used for the various colors).  Unfortunately, I haven't
been able to find anyone on this side of the pond who carries the
Renaissance Wools.

If anyone's interested, I've just got a copy of Wolfgang Grape's
book on the Bayeux Tapestry, and I highly recommend it ... it has
an excellent commentary on various facets of the tapestry, and
how to understand it and what it means, and so forth.

Karen

Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 01:16:17 -0400
From: "Becky J. Needham" <betony at infinet.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Bayeux Tapestry

> Good points Hertha. I have a book (I'll find out the title for
> tomorrow if anyone is interested) It has 2 photos of the back and it
> appears that the colors are nearly the same. For most of its 1000
> years it was folded up and stored the the basement of a church so
> fading due to sunlight would be minimal. I don't know much about
> fading due to decomposition.

This sounds like David Bernstein's "Mystery of the Bayeux Tapestry."
Excellent book!! Another good one is by Mogens Rud, "The Bayeux
Tapestry: the Battle of Hastings 1066." I chose the latter to base my
color comparisons.  The black, BTW, can also be an extremely dark blue.
Appleton's #2 wool has all the colors, and it is made in the period
manner.  You will see what I mean about the blue/black if you find
some.  It's a good price, too.  My Laurel advised to use Medici DMC wool
to couch with and the Appleton's as the laid.  There is a shop here in
town (Columbus, Oh) that carries it and I can get you in touch with the
proprietress and you can go from there.  If anyone is interested, I can
give you the wool numbers and Medici numbers tomorrow.

> I suggested DMC as a guide since it would be readily available. Then
> you could match a wool floss to the DMC color. I did the same figure
> with DMC floss and wool floss. The cotton floss left gaps that let the
> white linen show thru, but the wool floss was fluffier and filled in
> better.

I have used the wools on a piece and they work very well.  It's late,
and I forget, but did anyone mention different dye lots as a reason for
the color variation?  Not to mention that it appears that many different
people worked on all parts of it and they used probably what they could
get if the prevaling color had been used up.

Bet

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:59:44 -0400
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Bayeux Tapestry

---------- Forwarded Message ----------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:50:17 +0100
To: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
From: Ian Macpherson <Ian at madeira.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Bayeux Tapestry

>I understand you have done some work on reproducing the exact colours for
>this, please could you send details of exactly what you can provide eg if
>you do kits, supply the thread or what-have-you. Could you also advise if
>you currently have a US outlet. 
>
>I only have your email address so details of your postal address and
>Tel/fax would be useful.
>
>Melanie Wilson, UK

Dear Melanie Wilson
thank you for your e-mail. details of the Bayeux Tapestry Finale can be
found on our website at www.madeira.co.uk
we do not produce kits of the Finale, we supply the Renaissance Crewel,
plant dyed as is the 14th century,lambswool embroidery thread, plus the 100%
linen fabric as used in the original.
Sorry Renaissance wool is only available from ourselves in 100 colours
replicated from those of the 14th century.

hope the above is of use
regards
Ian macpherson

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:13:36 -0400
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Bayeux Tapestry

Yes we do supply by mail order to the USA indeed, we have a number of
customers there including those who purchase Renaissance wool for their own use.
For your information price in sterling per 25 metre skein of Renaissance
wool is 95p. Unfortunately, our On-Line Order system does not have the
Renaissance Wool range on it as it is impossible to get the depth of colour
right, all other threads etc are on the site though.
Our annual Craft,Embroidery & Fashion exhibition of embroidered works of art
starts tomorrow for 3 days. its the largest event in Europe and attracts
visitors from around the world.
regards
Ian Macpherson

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:29:56 -0500
From: "Helen Schultz (KHvS)" <meistern at netusa1.net>
To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Fw: Bayeux Tapestry

To Scot Eddy and the Arts list:

I sent the original query on the Bayeux Tapestry to a fellow Laurel who
received her award for her needlework (in fact her replication of the
Bayeux Tapestry style of embroidery, but using the Battle at Stamford
Bridge).  This is her reply (it bounced when she tried to send it back to
Scot, so I am forwarding it to the list).

In a message dated 98-10-07 11:32:17 EDT, Scot Eddy wrote:

 > Over the course of researching the Bayeux Tapestry I have come across
 > some radically different colors for the same figure. Talking to
 > friends who are much more knowledgeable about cameras told me that
 > this is natural. Different films, different light, etc wil yield
 > different results. There are only 7 colors on the Tapestry (grey,
 > black, ochre, lt blue., green, brick red, and brown) How can we know
 > whether the wool floss we are using is the correct color?
 >
<snip>
 >
 > DMC has a big pamphlet of all of their colors. If we use that as our
 > guide (everyone could potentially have access to one) could some
 > wonderful soul in Drackenwald, or who will be visiting soon, take the
 > color guide to Bayeux and check it against the actual Tapestry itself.
 > They could then report back that the green is closest to green 134 and
 > the grey is closest to grey 56, etc.
 >
 > Without that we would alll be using different sources and our colors
 > would be "off." >>

Greetings Scot....

I had your note forwarded to me by a fellow sister Laurel.  I hope you don't
mind.  She felt that I may be of some help since my laurel is in Early period
embroidery.

I have done a 6.5 feet long Bayuex Tapestry style embroidery and I can give you
the colors that I researched in the DMC wool.  Along with the color chart I
would like to introduce you to some of the resources that would help you in
future projects like this.  I know with the restorations that we have to
separate from the original it can be frustrating.  My best advise it to look
at the majority of the 230+ feet and find the common ground in the colors.
Take the best plate reproductions and brighten a bit (fading would be apparent
over the years) and match that way.  Yes, those that tell you the color
variances would occur but it would be unlikely in the original...due mostly to
the fact that royalty commissioned this piece and would have put a great deal
of time and money into the project.

Here are the numbers of DMC Medicis Wool for you that I have studied and
concluded would be the best representation of the actual....

The three primary colors used (those that are the mostly used colors and
found in both borders and the bulk of the main body):

8114 - Burnt Red
8408 - Deep Green-Blue
8302 - Burnt Gold

The three secondary colors used (those used mainly in the borders but found
sparsily throughout the main body):

8204 - Grey
8406 - Sea Green
8403 - Moss Green

The two terciary colors used (those that are believed to be fill ins and part
of the shadowing and highlighting found mostly in the borders and in the
written letters):

8326 - Yellow
No number just the word Navy

The above color descriptions are mine and not what DMC puts on them.

I have several excellant references for you if you like that shows good colors
plates...large ones too.  They are out of print but you should be able to
find them in your library.

Hope this helps.  I am excited to see that the early embroidery is being
studied and done.  If I can be of further assistance PLEASE feel free to
contact me anytime.

Mistress Siban
Middle Kingdom

Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:46:04 -0400
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Bayeux Tapestry

Further info on colours as sent to me:-

I've asked the designer to let me have the colours. these were arrived at by
viewing photographs in many books, the designer is also an historian and
researcher as well as an embroiderer of international repute.
naturally, with threads plant dyed in the 20th century you cannot replicate
exactly those of the 11th century which are now quite dull but they are
close.

Certainly the curator of The Bayeux Museum was impressed as they want to
have the Bayeux Tapestry Finale displayed alongside the original in Bayeux
at some time in the future. she say it when it was displayed at Falaise
Castle  earlier this year.

These are the colour refs:

Orange 1202. browns 1302 1303. yellows 1413.1407.1408.
blues 1621.1009.1909. greens 1613.1617.1619.

Mel

Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:07:44 -0400
From: "Deborah Herbert" <dherbert at city.virginia-beach.va.us>
To: <stefan at texas.net>
Subject: Re: tapestry.

The original Bayeux Tapestry was embroidered using a 2 ply wool thread.  I got this information from Ian Macpherson at Ian at madeira.co.uk (www.madeira.co.uk ). 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: embroidery stitch help
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 15:06:43 GMT

There are a lot of good books on the Bayeux Tapestry; my personal
favorite is David J. Bernstein's _The Mystery of the Bayeux
Tapestry,_ which along with lots of other stuff has drawings and
close-up photos of the stitches, including PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE
WRONG SIDE, done a few years ago when the Tapestry was removed
from its mounting for cleaning and remounting.

Meantime, I can tell you how to embroider Bayeux-fashion; there
are only two stitches.  It's sort of the MacPaint of embroidery:
there's an outline stitch and a filling stitch and that's
essentially all.

The outlines are done in a plain stem stitch.

For filling in the enclosed spaces, you use a laid-and-couched
satin stitched, which as you may not have encountered it I shall
proceed to describe.

Take your floss, thread, whatever (if using ordinary embroidery
cotton, use the full six strands) and lay down a satin stitch
across the shape.  That is, bring the thread up at an edge, lay
it all the way across the shape, and put the needle into the
opposite edge.  Now bring it up at that same edge, just a few
threads over, and go back the other way.  You'll end with the
shape being solidly covered with lines of thread, all parallel,
filling the space completely and looking very nice. 

They wouldn't stay that way, though, so now you take another needle
threaded with only two (or one, or three, your choice) strands
and bring it up from the edge of the shape, at right angles to
the threads you've already laid down.  Take this cross-thread
all the way across and put it down into the opposite edge.

Now bring your needle back up, right next to the cross-thread you
just laid down, about a quarter-inch away from the edge of the
outline.  Bring your thread over the cross-thread and put the
needle back down into the same spot; couch it down, in other
words.  Bring the needle up again a quarter-inch away from that,
and repeat till you get back to the other edge where you
originally started the cross-thread.  Bring the needle up again a
quarter-inch away along the outline, and repeat with another
laid-and-couched thread, parallel to the first one and a
quarter-inch away.  Repeat till the whole shape is covered.  

The satin stitch threads are now firmly tacked down to the fabric
and will stay that way.  Through multiple wearings, multiple
washings, they will stay put.  I've had garments decorated with
Bayeux stitch, worn for years, whereof the fabric disintegrated
before the embroidery did.  (Yes, it is period to cut the
embroidered parts off and re-use them as an applique.)

Note that it is also period, for this stitch, to have a
messy-looking wrong side and to tie knots in the thread.  This
ain't blackwork.

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                         Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                               Albany, California
PRO DEO ET REGE                               djheydt at kithrup.com
                 http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt

From: Nicole Benkert <n.benkert at verizon.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Bayeux Tapestry thread colours
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 01:01:23 GMT

> That's really keen!  Do you recall if the tapestry had much fading over
> time, or was it more protected since it was in a church?  (A lot of the
> more secular tapestries, like the Unicorn ones, have serious fading due
> to being in the sun, wrapped around old furniture in storage in the
> 1800s, etc.)

I've included what i found on fading via a cursory reading of my sources
(included.  Sorry for the poor format of my bibliography- it's been a long
time since i had to do one)
    -Ceinwen ferch Llewelyn ab Owain
===========================
Fading and the Bayeux Tapestry
---------------------------------
Cetto, Anna Maria The Bayeux Tapestry.  1970 (trans. Britta M. Charleston)
Hallwag Ltd.

Wilson, David M. The Bayeux Tapestry.  1985 Alfred A Knopf.  ISBN
0-394-54793-4

"Most of the wool seems to have been dyed with vegetable dyes already in the
fleece.  Hence the incredible absence of fading that it exhibits.  Only in
part was the woolen yarn presumably re-dyed after it had been spun.  Strange
to say, moreover, the clothes-moths have avoided the old wool, in contrast to
the materials with which the repairs were later carried out, which were
obviously more to their liking.  As the embroidery-wool for such an extensive
piece of needle-work was not all dyed at the same time, that is to say, the
materials of one shade were not all dipped together in one vat, there is a
wide variety of shades within each of the eight tones, in spite of the fact
that the same plants were used for the dye, age and light having also done
their share though far less than might have been expected after 900 years."
(Cetto, p. 3)

"The conservators of 1983 were struck by the fact that the colours on the back
of the tapestry were of almost the same tone as those on the front; there had
been little or no fading.  It should, however, be pointed out to the modern
visitor to Bayeux that some of the brilliance of the colours is lost by the
need to keep light-levels low and by the necessary presence of security glass
in front of the hanging.  Because of the thickness of the wool and the manner
of stitching, the surface is a mass of light and shade which gives a lively
feeling to the embroidery and sometimes makes it difficult to be precise in a
description of the colour of a particular feature."  (Wilson p.11)

Other things mentioned that might bear significance:

"The tapestry shows signs of having been washed at least once (maybe twice)"
[this also helps explain the lack of lines from cartoons or drawings]

"displayed on the feast of relics" [July 1] (from the inventory of Bayeux
Cathedral, 1476)

From: Mary K Placeway <placeway+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Bayeux Tapestry--More info
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:35:33 -0400
Organization: Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Greetings from Genevieve du Vent Argent!

Here's some more info on the Bayeaux Tapestry, which I inadvertantly
left out of my last message.

BOOKS:
"The Bayeux Tapestry", by David Mackenzie Wilson & Alfred A. Knopf,
copyright 1985, ISBN#: 0-394-54793-4 (A large "coffee-table" style book,
colors are a bit faded, but has some good info about the colors and the
size of the reproduction is large, so you can get a good look at the
images.)

"The Bayeaux Tapestry: Monument to a Norman Triumph", by Wolfgang Grape,
copyright 2000, ISBN#: 3791313657, paperback, about $40.  (Better
colors, better text, though images are smaller.  Gave more info about
the thread count of the linen [54 threads per inch] and told us that the
images were drawn in red.  If you look it up on Amazon.com, there are a
few images that are displayed from the book.)

There's another book called "The Mystery of the Bayeaux Tapestry" that
I've mislaid - it had a great illustration of the "laid & couched"
stitches which is similar to the one shown on the Regia Anglorum site
listed below, and shows pictures of the back of the tapestry, showing
where threads are missing and showing the knots in the thread.

WEBSITES:

Regia Anglorum: http://www.regia.org/
   Embroidery Techniques: http://www.regia.org/embroid.htm
   This site has a very good illustration of the "laid & couched work" 
   stitches used in the Bayeaux Tapestry.  Doesn't list their sources, though.

The Battle of Hastings: http://battle1066.com/intro.html
   Bayeaux Tapestry: http://battle1066.com/bayeux1.htm
   also: http://www.hastings1066.com/
   and: http://www.hastings1066.com/history.shtml

This site is no longer active:
http://orb.rhodes.edu/schriber/bayeux_tapestry.html
but contains this note:  
"If you wish to obtain images from the museum, you can contact them at:
  Centre Guillaume-le-Conquerant
  Rue de Nesmond
  Bayeux, France"

The museum sells a small-scale reproduction book, folded size approx. 1
foot by 4"inches high, which expands out to show the whole tapestry (the
original tapestry is 220' long).

--Genevieve du Vent Argent, Baroness Debatable Lands, AEthelmearc 

Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:05:40 -0400
From: Elaine Koogler <ekoogler1 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Another look at a Florilegium entry...
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

I just checked an article I remembered on this topic from "Medieval Food
and Drink" series of essays published by the Center for Early
Renaissance Studies at Binghampton University of the University of New
York. The article, entitled "Eating and Drinking in the Bayeux Tapestry"
by Rouben Cholakian, is a discussion of all of the scenes in the
tapestry that deal with food and drink. In the part of the essay where
this specific panel is discussed, he describes the bovines and the pig
being taken to slaughter, mentioning that they seem to be headed in the
wrong direction. He makes no mention of the pony being slaughtered as
well. In fact he totally ignores the presence of the animal, with its
handler, at all. I have to admit I had always thought that it was
carrying stuff in the paniers over its back...rather than being
slaughtered to be part of the feast...but that could be a deduction that
I made based on not being used to seeing horsemeat used as part of a  
meal.

Kiri

Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:14:46 -0400
From: "Kirsten Houseknecht" <kirsten at fabricdragon.com>
Subject: [Sca-cooks] OT: for some, Bayeux tapestry
To: <Devra at aol.com>, <SCA-Garb at yahoogroups.com>,
	<sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>,	<bhakail-list at yahoogroups.com>, 

i just stumbled over a book at the local chain store (Barnes and Nobles)
The Bayeux tapestry by David M. Wilson
isbn 0- 500-25122-3  retail price $40.00

it was first published in like 1985 so it isnt new or anything
but complete detailed pictures of the entire tapestry, plus commentary
(including on the stitches, as well as on the history)
since i study (and teach for beginners) period stitchery, this was a 
nice thing for me.

i am *sure* that the assorted evil booksellers (registered union number 
666) in the SCA must also carry it!

but having gotten a good look at it, i can tell you that it is well 
worth it for study of the history OR the stitchery.

Kirsten Houseknecht
Fabric Dragon
kirsten at fabricdragon.com
www.fabricdragon.com
Philadelphia, PA     USA

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: norman embroidery
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:56:34 GMT

The Bratt  <brattboy at aros.net> wrote:
>I have seen the Bayeux Tapestry and was wondering if they did such 
>things for a tapestry could they not use that on trim for clothing, and 
>if so where would one find documentation on this?  Can anyone help?

OK, in the first place the Bayeux Tapestry, though now housed in
Normandy and depicting a Norman victory, was made in England by
English embroideresses.  There are a couple of books you can look
up, let me go find them....

One is _The Mystery of the Bayeux Tapestry_ by David Bernstein; I
can't find my copy at the moment (I bet my daughter has made off
with it).  It includes analyses of the symbolism of the little
figures in the margin and some photographs of the wrong side of
the Tapestry, taken a few years ago when it was put onto a new
backing.  It also has some illustrations showing how the stitches
are done--there are only two of them and the technique is fairly
simple.

Another is _The Bayeus Tapestry Embroiderers' Story_ by Jan
Messent.  This one is more a fun read than a source of hard
documentation, but there are some notes on details of the
embroidery.

As to whether the technique was also used to decorate clothing,
we have the problem that we lack surviving examples.  The
surviving pieces of _Opus Anglicanum_, "English work," are all
ecclesiastical garments and were done in gold thread, which has
survived even when the linen backing and most of the silk thread
has perished.

It's kind of like baking bread.  We can reliably assume they
baked bread in the eleventh century, even though no recipes survive.

I have used Bayeux stitch to decorate garments with considerable
success; in fact, in some cases the embroidery has outlasted the
garment.  It will survive multiple machine-washings (assuming the
thread you used is colorfast and shrinkproof), and it's economical
because almost all the thread appears on the right side.  You
also have leave not to try to make the wrong side look Neat and
Tidy, because they didn't in period, the photos of the wrong side
look extremely messy.

If I had you here I could teach you Bayeux stitch in ten minutes;
I've done mini-courses on it at A&S events.  As it is, if you
can't figure it out from looking at it, let me know and I'll try
to post a verbal description (I have no graphics).

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                         Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                               Albany, California
PRO DEO ET REGE                               djheydt at kithrup.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: djheydt at kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Subject: Re: myths: hastings
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:49:29 GMT

<owen67301 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>You can view the tapestry in various sites online, some quite
>complete.  There is a scene labeled death of King Harold, that shows a
>figure pulling an arrow from its eye, but the caption in the version I
>was looking at says that the figure of Harold dying is another one,
>slightly to the right of that one.
>           Ewen MacG

I now have my copy of _The Mystery of the Bayeux Tapestry_ back.
(David J. Bernstein, London: Weidenfeld and Nicolson, London,
1986.  This is the one with the photographs of the *back* side of
the tapestry, taken when it was last removed from its backing to
be put on a new one.)

There are two figures of Harold, one showing him receiving the
arrow in the eye, and another showing him lying fallen with a
mounted Norman soldier bending down to give him a sword-wound in
the thigh.  Both figures are Harold, just as there are two
"views" of his brother Gyrth, one receiving his death-blow from a
spear and the second lying fallen in the lower border.  (Fig.
87.)

The first figure of Harold--Bernstein calls it Harold A--shows
him reaching to pluck the arrow from his eye.  The second, Harold
B, shows him fallen, and there are no stitches left to the arrow,
but the needle holes where it was can still be seen, particularly
from the back.  (Figs. 86 and 88 respectively.)

Remember that Hastings day was traditionally called "The day King
Harold was alive and dead."

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                         Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                               Albany, California
PRO DEO ET REGE                               djheydt at kithrup.com

Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 17:04:09 -0400
From: Johnna Holloway <johnna at sitka.engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: [Spit-project] Looking at the Bayeux Tapestry...
To: Creating period spits <spit-project at lists.ansteorra.org>

gail young wrote:
<<< Can you send out a link to a good page with pictures from the tapestry?
  Gwyneth >>>

http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php 
Create your own Bayeux Tapestry.... so you can create your own story.
So let's see Count Gunthar throws a feast and invites important people...

Johnnae

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris	Bayeux-Tap-msg	Page  of