Title: cross-stitch-msg
Subject: Period and SCA cross-stitch.
Author: Edited by Mark S. Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: medieval, embroidery, cross-stitch, needlework

cross-stitch-msg - 4/14/19

Period and SCA cross-stitch.

NOTE: See also the files: embroidery-msg, emb-linen-msg, emb-frames-msg, tapestries-msg, p-x-stitch-art, emb-blackwork-msg, linen-msg, sewing-tools-msg.

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    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: habura at vccnw12.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: X-Stitch?  When was it period?
Date: 8 Jun 1993 13:16:29 GMT
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY

Cross-stitch: The earliest example of cross-stitch of which I am aware is
some parts of the Syon Cope, which is 14th century. That isn't to say that
the form wasn't used earlier, merely that it's the earliest firm date I have.
It appears with surprising frequency in heraldic embroideries.

I have no idea of what Russians were doing for embroidery in 1000 AD. I do
know that the Germans were doing mostly whitework and applique, with some
freehand embroidery, by 1200. I wonder, since part of Russia was under 
Scandinavian influence at the time, whether it wouldn't be more productive
to look into what the Norse cultures were doing. 
And, since I've wandered out of my specialty, I'll sign off.

Alison MacDermot

From: Joyce <jmiller at genome.wi.mit.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: X-Stitch?  When was it period?
Date: 11 Jun 1993 21:48:04 GMT
Organization: Whitehead Institute

Andrea Marie Habura, habura at vccnw12.its.rpi.edu writes:
>Cross-stitch: The earliest example of cross-stitch of which I am aware is
>some parts of the Syon Cope, which is 14th century. That isn't to say that
>the form wasn't used earlier, merely that it's the earliest firm date I have.
>It appears with surprising frequency in heraldic embroideries.

The Germans (in Saxony and Westphalia, at least) were using long-armed
cross-stitch in the 14th century.  Note:  I can't remember seeing our
modern version of cross-stitch used in the Middle Ages, just long-armed
cross stitch.

Joyce
jmiller at genome.wi.mit.edu

Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 1994 09:39:17 EST
From: Lisa A. M. Tyson <CS23001 at MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: European Cross Stitch Catalog

Jan McEwen posted a request on rec.crafts.textiles to find
cross stitch patterns for two medieval ladies published in
Cross Stitch Country Crafts Jan/Feb '90 and Sept/Oct '91.

I received a new catalog yesterday which I believe offers these patterns.

The catalog is by   Minnie Wisdom Needlework Collection
                    419 Correas Street
                    Half Moon Bay, CA  94019

             send   $2.00 for the catalog

I was very surprised that I received my catalog so quickly (about a week!
They carry European X Stitch and needlework in many different themes.

They carry samplers, Camelot Castle designs (I highly recommend
Laarne and Chillon- they are spectacular when completed!), and many
English cottages which are quite charming.  Aside from a few expensive
kits, their prices are average for a charted design ( around $ 5.00 ).
I am sure that the photocopied catalog does not begin to do most of
these designs justice.

I would appreciate any correspondence regarding medieval embroidery
designs and sources.  I have recently begun exploring blackwork
embroidery and am working up my courage to try something on linen.

Yours In Service,
Lady Brynn   (Lisa A. Tyson)

Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 14:24:26 EST
From: <CS23001 at MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Camelot Designs "Windows" series: Roses design

I just picked up a striking castle design chart from my local
cross stitch shop.  The design is a castle with beautiful shading
in browns, surrounded by a border incorporating red roses.  To the
best of my knowledge this is a relatively new design in the last
year offered by Camelot Designs (I'm somewhat of a fan of their castles).

What I found appealing about this particular chart is first the visual
impact of the reds, greens and browns in the chart photo.  The amount of
background white space gives the chart a clean appearance rather than
merely appearing unfinished (as I find many charts).  Simple bordering
and a relatively small scale of shading in the roses and castle make
this a reasonable project for even a relatively new cross stitcher.

This chart in kit form may be ordered from (I believe) New Stitchery
catalog (don't have any of my materials with me at the moment). If you
just want the chart you can ask at your local shop or contact:

      Camelot Designs
      PO Box 9432
      Tulsa, Oklahoma  74157

The chart asks for 14 colors of DMC floss and 2 Kreinik Metallics.
The model is stitched on 14 Count white Aida.  A nicer matting and
framing than shown in the chart photo would really make this a winner!

Can anyone tell that I've just started this one? <smile>

There are also two others in the series: Jonquils and Tulips.  Guess
I'll be back at the cross stitch store for those this summer.

They also have the Historic Castle series offering:
     Chillon
     Neuschwanstein
     Carfiff
     Eilean Donan
     Anif
     Conwy
     Laarne
     Saumur
     Alcazar
     Egeskov

The Borderlands series (fantasy)
    Merlins Retreat
    Ice Castle
    Atlantis
    Rainy Day Castle
    Sand Castle
    Castle in the Wildwoods

The Skylights series includes:
    Moonrise
    The Twins
    Sunset
    Storms End
    Winter's Orb
    Tempest       (lightning striking behind a castle if I remember)

The StoryTime series has:
    Sleeping Beauty's Castle
    The Gingerbread House
    The Shoe
    Rapunzel's Tower/Once Upon a Time(I just bought this one too)
    Snow Queen's Castle
    The Emerald City of Oz

They also sell "I Love Castles" Sampler chart (it's ok).

Most of these designs sell for $5.00 or less.  I have two of the
historic castles, Chillon and Laarne.  I consider them a challenge
(mostly of my patience) because of the large amount of shading
in a large area of the work.  I am currently working on Laarne and
I expect I'll still be on Laarne in 1996 ( I'm slow and haveother
projects I cycle through).  I have no doubt the final product will
be worth it and I will enjoy working on it in the meanwhile.

Camelot Designs is worth looking into for those interested in
medieval theme cross stitch charts.  For those interested in
designing their own tapestries in a true medieval style, some
of these little charts might give you an easy design idea if
you want to incorporate the 'small castle on the hill' in the
background of your tapestry.  It shouldn't pull the focus away
from your foreground figures or be too much outside of the style
used.  (You can see what project I'm planning in my next life.....)

Enjoy...   Lisa Tyson  ("Lady Brynn" MacLachlan in the S.C.A.,
                         Shire of Endewearde ( Central Maine )
                         Kingdom of the East )

From: PJLR92A at prodigy.com (Shawn Cahoon)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: needlwork/renaissance question (fwd)
Date: 3 Jun 1995 06:27:29 GMT

There is modern style cross stitch on several of the samplers in the 
Victoria and Albert museum  that were done in period.  The one that I 
recall most clearly is a sampler done by Jane Bostocke in 1598, although 
there are some with earlier dates.  The museum has a book out that you 
can get fairly easily for about $15.  It is called the Victoria and 
Albert Museum Textile Collection and is published by Castle Publishing.  
It's an oversize softback with some splendid color photographs of the 
pieces that they have. - Winalee

From: habura at vccnw14.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: needlwork/renaissance question (fwd)
Date: 5 Jun 1995 14:04:21 GMT
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute

For Sheryl: Well, actually, there's two ways of answering this question.

Was there cross stitch being done in England in 1550? I would be astonished
if it was not. I have in my files one (secular) example of cross stitch 
from the 13th century, another from the 14th or 15th c. (depends on which
expert you believe), and a few from the 17th. I have inventory records,
as opposed to actual photos, of a few more. So, I'd be awfully hard pressed
to claim that there could be no 16th c. examples. :)

Was cross-stitch used *on clothing* in 16th c. England? I don't know. I
will say that I have not seen it used in any of the portraits I've studied
from that era. The favored embroidered ornament for outer clothing (gowns,
doublets, etc.) seems to have been laid gold cord and other forms of 
goldwork, with a generous helping of pearls and gems. I seem to recall 
some embroidered silk and gold posies in Janet Arnold's book, too. The 
favored ornament for things like shirts seems to have been blackwork, gold
embroidered or woven bands, and some smocking. 

If it were me, I'd probably go for laid gold cord, because it's a fast, simple
technique that works up prettily. 

Of course, it is possible that cross stitch *was* used on clothing in this
era. My area of specialization is about 200 years earlier, and there was 
a large change in English embroidery technique between the two eras; I don't
consider myself expert in 16th c. embroidery. At any rate, I hope this was
helpful.

Alison MacDermot
*Ex Ungue Leonem*

From: donna at kwantlen.bc.CA (Donna Hrynkiw)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: MEDIEVAL CROSS STITCH SAMPLERS?
Date: 21 Jul 1995 20:07:18 -0400

Avid Cross Stitchers -- BEWARE!

Cross-stitchery as we know it today (ie. a mosaic of different-coloured
stitches) is very modern. Excruciatingly modern as a matter of fact.
LIKE LATE 1900's MODERN.

(Do you think I got my point across? I think so...)

On the other hand, if you still want to do the cross stitch, it was known
in period and sometimes used in a similar manner. There are quite a few
-period- graphed patterns suitable for cross-stitching.  The great majority
are meant to be worked in a single colour.

Why I have in my hands this very moment (well, on the desk beside me)
a brand new facsimile of a medieval pattern book. It's called "German
Renaissance Patterns for Embroidery -- A Facsimile Copy of Nicolas Bassee's
New Modelbuch of 1568". (ISBN 0-9633331-4-3, 1994, Curious Works Press,
107 RR 620 South, #11-E, Austin Texas 78734). A lovely little book; tons
of period patterns to delight and entice: spanish work, lacis, counted
satin stitch, and couched cordwork.

Please, please! Leave the cross-stitch dragons and castles at home and
try out some REAL medieval patterns. It's extremely satisfying.

A pattern to entice you (from plate 89):

XX   XX   XX   XX    XXXX  XXXXX  XXXX    XX   XX   XX   XX    XXXX  XXXXX  X
XXX XXX   XXX XXX   XXXXXX  XXX  XXXXXX   XXX XXX   XXX XXX   XXXXXX  XXX  XX
 XX XX  X  XX XX   XX    XX  X  XX    XX   XX XX  X  XX XX   XX    XX  X  XX 
   X   XXX   X    XX      XX X XX      XX    X   XXX   X    XX      XX X XX  
 XX XX  X  XX XX  XX XX    XXXXX    XX XX  XX XX  X  XX XX  XX XX    XXXXX   
XXX  XX X XX  XXX XX XXX  XX X XX  XXX XX XXX  XX X XX  XXX XX XXX  XX X XX  
XX    XXXXX    XX XX  XX XX  X  XX XX  XX XX    XXXXX    XX XX  XX XX  X  XX 
     XX X XX      XX    X   XXX   X    XX      XX X XX      XX    X   XXX   X
    XX  X  XX    XX   XX XX  X  XX XX   XX    XX  X  XX    XX   XX XX  X  XX 
XXXXX  XXX  XXXXXX   XXX XXX   XXX XXX   XXXXXX  XXX  XXXXXX   XXX XXX   XXX 
XXXX  XXXXX  XXXX    XX   XX   XX   XX    XXXX  XXXXX  XXXX    XX   XX   XX  

(Stand back from your terminal a ways and take a look. It's actually very
pretty.)

Elizabeth "E.B." Braidwood
---
Mistress Elizabeth Braidwood
donna at kwantlen.bc.ca

From: habura at vccnw02.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: MEDIEVAL CROSS STITCH SAMPLERS?
Date: 27 Jul 1995 19:22:56 GMT
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute

Well, just to be clear: there are medieval examples of polychrome embroidery
in which cross-stitch is the only form of embroidery employed. The ones 
I have found are not "samplers" per se; one is a bag, the other trim. 
Both use the different colors of thread to make pictures--coats of arms in
both cases--and in both cases all of the ground fabric is covered with
stitches. The medieval name for this form, according to EGI Christie, 
is _opus pluvinarium_. 

Alison MacDermot
*Ex Ungue Leonem*

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: um157 at freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Lucy Porter)
Subject: Re: MEDIEVAL CROSS STITCH SAMPLERS?
Organization: The Victoria Freenet Association (VIFA), Victoria, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:34:11 GMT

In a previous article, nutmeg at clubmet.metrobbs.com (Regina Townsend) says:
>I guess it depends on how late you define OOP.  I have seen illustrations 
>of polychrome cross stitch samplers that are Dutch and English in origin, 
>dated to 1615-1630ish.  I'm sorry that I don't have titles or other 

My lady, I have something in my hand that will interest you.

In the book "Embroiderers" by Kay Stanisland, part of the Medieval 
Craftsmen line from the University of Toronto press ISBN 0-8020-6915-0,
there is a period cross stitch sampler.

It is on page 64, and the caption reads "Plate 71 Unfinished German 
sampler worked in coloured silks on linen in cross, long-armed cross, two 
sided Italian cross and double running stitches. The crucifix was a 
fairly common motif in early sixteenth-century continental samplers; 
alphabets were less usual."

The text says that it's dated to the time of the earliest pattern books, 
1523-1540. The picture is pretty good. With a magnifying glass I was able 
to count stitches to make diagrams. It includes a crucifix motif that has 
been shaded, a detailed lady, a Mary-Queen-of-Heaven, two different 
Pelicans-in-their-piety, lots of nifty borders and fills and an alphabet.
Unfortunately, the picture is in black and white, which means you have no 
clue as to what colours are used. But that's relatively minor.

I hope you can locate the book. It's got lots of other neat stuff in it.
Of course, if you anyone is interested, I could send the copies of 
the patterns I made from the sampler...

Lady Aliena Searover, Shire of Seagirt, Kingdom of An Tir
Lucy Porter, Victoria, BC, Canada

From: donna at kwantlen.bc.CA (Donna Hrynkiw)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: colored, patterned cross-stitch
Date: 27 Jul 1995 15:07:13 -0400
Organization: The Internet

Mistress Elaina asked me to post this for her. I am pleased to
be able to do so.

Elizabeth
donna at kwantlen.bc.ca

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:09:04 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mary Morman <memorman at oldcolo.com>
Subject: colored, patterned cross-stitch

mistress elaina sends greetings unto mistress elizabeth,

my lady,

while visiting in england four years ago i saw a special 
exhibit of embroidery at hardwick hall.  the embroidery
was late sixteenth century work done by, or under the 
direction of, countess bess of hardwick.  the usual
hardwick hall exhibit has massive amounts of tapestry
work and applique on bedhangings, curtains, etc.  this
special exhibit had bed linen and table linen.  

there were edges displayed of what i assume were sheets or
even pillow cases (are pillow cases period?) that had lovely
edging patterns done in cross-stitch patterns of flowers and
leaves.  the colors were mainly pastels in pinks and blues and
greens.  whether they were pastels when worked is another matter
entirely - 400 years ago they might have been very bright.

but they were definitely cross-stich, and definitely flower
pictures.

at the moment, i have e-mail acapacity, and the ability to read
the rialto, but not to post.  if you would be willing to post
this message for me, i would be very grateful.

yours in service,
  ELAINA

elaina de sinistre  * * *  currently outlandish
       mary morman  * * *  memorman at oldcolo.com

From: connect at aol.com (CONNECT)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: colored, patterned cross-stitch
Date: 28 Jul 1995 10:14:27 -0400

May I suggest a book entitled An Anonymous Woman -- Her work wrought in
the 17th century? ISBN# 0-9633331-1-9 Written by Kathleen Epstein.

This book is about a sampler that was made in the early 1600s, so slightly
out of period. It has cross stitch, as well as other stitches on it to
make the band patterns.

Yours In Service,
Rosalyn MacGregor of Glen Orchy
Pattie Rayl of Ann Arbor, MI

From: Chris Laning <claning at igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: colored, patterned cross-stitch
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 01:09:28 -0700 (PDT)

I *think* that maybe what people are trying to say is that the kind of
detailed, solidly packed, shaded, "realistic"-looking cross stitch is
often found among X-stitch enthusiasts today is the type that is not
"period." It's hard to say, "You know - - I mean like THIS stuff,"
since e-mail is (still) mostly just text.

Perhaps Mistress Elizabeth can tell me if I've got the right concept here.
If you look at Victorian Berlin wool work, you have (say) a bouquet of roses.
Each rose petal may be worked in several shades of red, from light to dark,
in one closely packed mass of stitches. 

Or you have a cross-stitch "picture," perhaps Santa Claus climbing down a
chimney (modern version); either a literal picture to be framed or hung on
the wall, or a self-contained little "scene" to be featured on an apron bib
or some such.

*These* kinds of concepts are what mark it as "non-period," not whether
they use several colors. 

My impression is that mediaeval and Renaissance clothing embroidery, in
particular, was mostly thought of as "flat patterns," such as borders,
geometric designs and repeated florals. The "picture" concept was, I think,
more often done in tent stitch (i.e. needlpoint) for table carpets, cushion
covers, et cetera, and even so the idea of working a "painting" or "drawing"
of a more-or-less realistic "scene" with people, animals, trees, hills,
sunsets, background, rocks, furniture, et cetera was more Renaissance than
mediaeval. (Though there are certainly many "period" examples.) The "sampler"
style of picture has more the air of "here's a house, now what shall I put
next to it? Let's do the dog. Oh dear, he's almost as big as the house. How
about a rose bush on the other side?" Even when the components were assembled
into "pictures" made entirely of cross-stitch (a later development) they
look like someone took one motif from here and one from there and just
arranged them nicely, without trying to make it look "real."

I'll shut up now, just in case I turn out *not* to know what I'm talking
about...<grin>

By the way, two questions:

(1) I'm contemplating doing a piece of "turkey work" (short pile embroidery
on canvas). I have instructions, but is there any way to estimate how much
yarn it takes? I'm picking up mine mostly in thrift stores, when I see colors
that look "vegetal" enough.

  "Christian Mary Ashley," a.k.a. Chris Laning         
  <claning at igc.apc.org>
   Davis, California

From: diva at cutlass.pgh.pa.us (Diana Slivinska)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Carolingian Count Thread Book
Date: 28 Aug 1995 15:29:06 GMT
Organization: Pittsburgh Community Network

daniel fox (foxd at silver.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
: Can anyone give me the address and price for ordering this.  Both the
: flyer they sent me and the other sources  I've had for this information
: have disappeared.

hi there!

i bought my copy of "The New Carolingian Modelbook" at war.  It is published 
by:

The Outlaw Press
160 Washington SE, Suite 43
Albuquerque, NM  87108-2749

It lists for $24.95, and is well worth it!

just in case you need it, the ISBN # is 0-9642082-2-9

happy stitching,
Giulietta di Venezia

From: nostrand at mathstat.yorku.ca (Solveig Throndardottir)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Carolingian Count Thread Book
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 1995 06:25:43 -0500
Organization: DeMoivre Institute of Mathematical Sciences

Noble Cousins!

For those interested in reaching the publisher of the Carolingian Pattern Book
by Countess Ianthe (Queen of the East at Pennsic VI), the publisher does have
email.  It is

   outlaw at rt66.com (Brother Crimthann)

Incidentally, I beleave that standard bulk order discounts apply.

                                             Your Humble Servant
                                             Solveig Throndardottir
                                             Amateur Scholar

From: outlaw at rt66.com (Robert A. Goff)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Carolingian Count Thread Book
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:38:34 -0700
Organization: The Outlaw Press

dkoiman at aol.com (DKoiman) wrote:

>If it is true that there will be discounted prices for bulk buying of this
>much anticipated book,

We will offer 36% discount off the cover price for orders of 5 or more.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 Robert Goff, Head Scribe and Vellum Scraper, The Outlaw Press
 (505)266-3057 - outlaw at rt66.com - http://www.rt66.com/outlaw/
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

From: Nancy Berman <nancy_berman at wdi.disney.com>
Newsgroups: alt.heraldry.sca
Subject: Re: Devices Done Cross-Stitched
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 10:35:12 -0700
Organization: Disney Quest

To Anais Shadowhawk,

We do a lot of needlework in Caid involving displays of our devices on 
everything from garb to the backs of our chairs.  I personally have 
tried graphing on paper and using the "Lil Mimic" grid overlay.  I have 
yet to scan in a drawing of the device onto PhotoShop and print out a 
colored chart, but I suspect that is the sanest way to go!  Good luck!

P.S. You might try contact Mistress Eowyn Amberdrake (EowynA at aol.com) 
who is very knowledgeable in these things.

Duchess Natalya de Foix

Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:58:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Carol at Small Churl Books <scbooks at neca.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: cross stitch on uneven weave fabric

The shirt with the rectangular cross stitches, due to fabric that was NOT
even-weave, was shown on page 37 of "Needlework, An Illustrated History", a
book by Harriet Bridgeman and Elizabeth Drury, editors, Paddington Press, 1978.

The original is in the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, and is silk
(dark blue) on linen.  I was very excited to see it on display, in a special
display of clothing through the centuries, as I took the columbines on my
device from it.

I wonder how many other period pieces are on uneven fabric.  Enlarging by
photocopying, counting off a block of stitches, say 6x6 or larger, and
measuring would probably turn up a lot of rectangular cross stitch, I think.
It was not at all obvious to me that these were uneven until my charting had
me at my wits end, estimating stitch numbers by distance when I could not
see individual threads, and getting impossible results.  Realizing they
weren't square, and estimating, and voila! It got charted.

Lady Carllein

Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 14:23:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: Heidi J Torres <hjt at tenet.edu>
To: ansteorra at eden.com
Subject: Re: 12-steps

On Fri, 27 Jun 1997, Beth Zimmerman wrote:
>   Would you like to borrow my Complete Anachronist on 14th & 15th
> Century German Counted Thread Embroidery??  Not that I woul want to add
> to your obsession, but since I share it I wouldn't mind passing it on.

Oh, that is such a good pamphlet!!!!  Do it, Zina!  Take her up on the 
offer.  I am just finishing a pouch done in that style and I'm really 
pleased with it.

I will say this tho: the German Counted Work is both easier and harder 
than regular CCS.  The "counting" can be harder -- yes, I've done a lot 
of pulling out and re-doing.  Also, you need to do this on linen rather 
than Aida.  However, the results are so *rich* and it just looks *so* 
period that it's thrilling watching it take shape.

On the booklet itself, the documentation is excellent!  Especially how 
the author examined all the colors and gives you DMC alternatives.  I 
didn't follow the color recommendations exactly -- I always have to 
change things a little -- but I did use colors that he documents.  The 
result looks so *real*.

Personally, I prefer to create the bolder styles of embroidery to the really 
delicate ones -- not that I don't adore and admire blackwork, whitework, 
etc. and wish I could do it, but this type of embroidery is sort of a 
combination of both.

I urge anyone who enjoys needlework -- either bold or delicate -- to give 
it a try.

Mari ferch Rathyen

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 02:26:55 -0500
From: Karen at stierbach.atlantia.sca.org (Larsdatter, Karen )
To: "Jennifer Thompson" <jadeyale at hotmail.com>
Cc: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Cross stitch and other stitches....

Joia wrote:
> I am pretty much brand new to the SCA and I have recently
> started learning cross stitch.  By doing research I do know
> that croos stitch as it is known now is not what was used
> in the middle ages.

I'd like to note (for the record) that cross stitch is indeed period,
was done in figural multicolored patterns with shading, and was
done from mass produced printed paper patterns.  What part of "as
it is known now" is problematic?  The use of DMC threads, or the
combination of cross stitch and backstitching (neither of which are
really essential to modern cross stitch IMO)?  ;)

Let me know if you'd like more info.  I have a paper (it's online, but
the server is down at the moment) with information on period cross
stitch embroidery, and I can certainly e-mail a copy (or find
someone who has the Summer 1998 issue of "Tournaments
Illuminated").

> I found references to long armed cross stitch.  I'm not sure how to do
> this or how it was used.

There are a couple of different cross stitches called long armed
cross stitch.  The most basic one is demonstrated at:

http://online.anu.edu.au/english/jems/sharon/stitches/longarm.html

They were used as multicolored surface embroidery (as is the case
with a 15th century German example at
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Wymarc/cross.htm as
well as a pillow and furnishing band at the V&A [see "The Victoria
& Albert Museum's Textile Collection: Embroidery in Britain from
1200 to 1759" by King & Levey] or a pillow in the textile collection
at the Art Institute of Chicago [see "Textiles in the Art Institute of
Chicago" by Mayer-Thurman]) or in some cases as a single-color
band to separate bands on a band sampler.

> I'm also interested in trying blackwork but I need a
> little help. Any advice would be deeply appreciated.

Practice is good for blackwork.  Lots of practice.  I start
newcomers out by drawing the patterns to follow onto Aida, so they
get the gist of how to do the basic idea of a reversable embroidery
along a design, gradually making the design more complex ("inny"
bits and "outie" bits) and then just giving a paper pattern to work
from ... but YMMV with that cockamamie technique ;)

You'll find some blackwork links at

http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/topics/embr.htm

Feel free to write me with any questions!  Another good mailing list
to talk to is the Historic Needlework list (signup info is on the above
page) but they DO NOT concentrate on SCA-period needlework. 

Karen Larsdatter
NOT AN EXPERT

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:36:46 -0700
From: "J. A. Smith" <jasmith at caverns.com>
To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Re: Favours

From: Jennifer Thompson <jadeyale at hotmail.com>
>I have heard many wonderful ideas for favours.  I'm planning on making
>one for my lord (he made me a beautiful one for Christmas).  I want to
>stitch some sort of horse emblem on the favour but, as I am still
>inexperienced with stitchery, I need a guide to follow. 
>
>Joia Hereweald

M'lady stores such as Wal-mart and most craft based stores sell clear
plastic sheets that when laid over a picture will give you the "chart" for
cross=stiching any pattern.   It comes in a 12,14,16,and I think 20 count.
Hope this helps and good luck with your project. Lady Renna of Battersea,
Caer Mithin Halle, Outlands

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 18:46:04 EST
From: <SionnainR at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Favours

I may have missed what type of stitch work you were interested in doing. I
also am not sure if the horse in this book is what you would be looking for.
However, I have a terrific cross stitch book that people may enjoy and may
help your cause.

Celtic Cross Stitch
30 Alphabet, Animal and Knotwork Projects
by Gail Lawther
Published by Reader's Digest
1996

It's an absoloutely georgeous book with lots of color plates and good cross-
stitch instructions. 

Sionnain Rrhyddyrch, House Evergreen
Norseland

Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 01:18:00 EST
From: <EalasaidS at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Decorative Row Stitches [SCA]

There is a way to do cross stitch that creates crosses on both sides of the
peice.  And cross stitch was used for decorative borders like this in
period.

To get crosses on both sides, make the first half of the cross in every other
stich.  Then work back to the beginning, crossing each half stitch.  Then work
across again, making the first half of the cross in the gaps you left with the
first two passes.  Then work your way back, crossing these stitches.  You
end up with crosses front and back.

The Running Stitch, or Holbein Stitch, if done properly, also ends up with the
back of the work being identical to the front of the work.  You need a linear
or geometric design, though.  Again, you do it by doing every other stitch in
one direction, then work backwards filling in the gaps.  This is Blackwork,
though Blackwork does not have to be done with black thread.

I don't, off the top of my head, know of a stitch that creates crosses on
the back of the work.  If I find it, I'll let you know.

Ealasaid

To: Gleann Abhann (mail list) <gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: cross-stitch patterns
Posted by: "Crystyna" clusk at att.net clusk at att.net
Date: Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:46 pm ((PDT))

There are even examples of shading in period cross stitch.  The Oxburgh hangings are cross stitch and shaded. (The Needlework of Mary Queen of Scots by Margaret Swain, 1986, Ruth Bean Publishers, ISBN 0 903585 22 7)  This is why this site refers to some patterns 'in the style of Mary'

Crystyna

--- In gleannabhann at yahoogroups.com, Stefan li Rous <stefanlirous at ...> wrote:

Maire said:
<<< Ok, I know cross-stitch is not period, but I found these patterns and they are pretty neat.  Wanted to share! >>>

Thanks. But why do you say cross-stitch isn't period? The gradually shaded pictures and such are modern, but I would say that cross-stitch itself is period.

Stefan

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