Title: spinning-msg
Subject: hand spinning, spinning wheels.
Author: Edited by Mark S. Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: medieval, spinning, spindles, whorl, wheel

spinning-msg – 6/9/10

Spinning wheels, spindles. techniques. History of spinning wheels.

NOTE: See also the files: linen-msg, silk-msg, wool-hist-msg, cotton-art, weaving-msg, dyeing-msg, knitting-msg, wool-clean-msg, looms-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

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Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

From: ilaine at panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: biblio, sails, shoes, & lead
Date: 22 Jul 1993 06:45:11 -0400
Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC

priest at vaxsar.vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman) writes:
>p. 132)  But for hands-on graphic evidence I have Ilaine de Cameron to thank. 
>She showed me untreated wool from a double-coated modern sheep (a throwback
>breed) and a pair of vicious looking woolcombs.  We know the Vikings had and
>used both:  woolcombs and double-coated sheep.  Then she demonstrated what
>happens when you comb the wool the way the sources agree that the Vikings did: 
>the long kemp comes away all nice and straight, leaving behind the the softer,
>shorter, shinier stuff that all clings together.  (Ilaine, if you're out there,
>jump in any time!)

	Sure!  For what it's worth I have several sets of wool combs, and 
I've found the Viking combs far more effective for separating a double coat
than the Medieval English style. The English combs hold more wool, and I think
make a nicer roving but they seem better suited to a medium to longwool fleece
of uniform type.

-Ilaine
-- 
Liz Stokes         | Ilaine's E-Z Garb Workshop ...  Okay, now take the fabric
Ilaine de Cameron  | off the loom (or away from the kittens). It needs to be
                   | finished. Just find some fullers' earth, a convenient 
ilaine at panix.com   | stream, and some husky peasants to pound it with rocks.

From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: carding in period
Date: 12 Oct 93 09:32:38
Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.

> Carding being OOP

Depends on the precise period you are out of, but a wooden object
found in a hiberno-norse settlement in Dublin Ireland has been
identified as a wool carder, or at any rate the back of one.

I have no idea what the grounds for the identification were, but it
definately wasn't a comb, as it had no holes for the teeth.

Jennifer
Vanaheim vikings
(nfps not SCA, but I was passing the Rialto & stopped for a chat)

p.s. hiberno-norse = irish vikings

From: jgm at helios.tn.cornell.EDU (James McLean)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: wool carding in period?
Date: 18 Oct 1993 21:07:36 -0400

There have been a few notes discussing whether carding of wool happened in
period, or if wool was only processed with combing.  I have absolutely no
knowledge in the area, but I happened to come across the following.
It's from _Renaissance_ by John Hale via TIME-LIFE Books, on page 79 and
refering to the wool trade in Florence during the rennaissance...

> COMBING the wool separated the long strands from the short tufts of fuzz.
> Then the long strands, wound on wooden blocks, went directly to the
> spinners.  The tufts were used too, but first had to be prepared by carders.
>
> CARDING was a scraping process applied to lower-grade wool.  Spreading the
> wool on wicker frames, workers untangled it with wire scrapers - tools so
> efficient Florence forbade anyone to take them out of the city.

Hope this is helpful/interesting.  Does it make sense to any of the
wool-wise folk out there?

--Matteo Sassetti

From: Sheri.Stanley at p911.f1066.n374.z1.fidonet.org (Sheri Stanley)
Date: 08 Jan 94 11:17:03 -0500
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: silk, was Re: Expensive Authenticity
Organization: Fidonet:The Blue Barrel Brewery (1:374/1066.911)

 kc> There are two kinds of silk that are some-times called "raw silk"-+-
 kc> one is silk noil, which is made by washing and spinning the short
 kc> fibers from broken caccoons, and the other is tussah silk, which is
 kc> made from the coccoons of other types of mothes which eat other things
 kc> than mulberries.

You are, of course, correct - did I not differentiate in my post? Sigh. The
baby is sucking my brains out again.

 kc> as mulbery-worm silk, and it's base color is never pure white.  I
 kc> don't know where else it is worked, i have seldom seen it on the
 kc> market, and when i do it is out-rageously expensive.

Shrug. Maybe it's your area...I've occasionally found Tussah for $4-$6 per
yard (though $10-12 is more common). Check out Thai Silks (their address is
in the back of Sew News magazine),they have reasonable prices on silks (and
great quarterly sales!)

 kc> I love silk noil--it has all the warm-but-cool properties you expect
 kc> in natural fabrics, it has a wonderfull drape and hand, and all though

Ever tried to spin it? Eek! What a pain in the butt. I've given up trying to
get good, consistent yarn from the noil rovings I can buy here, and started
using it carded w/other fibers (works *fantastic* carded w/merino!). I love
it, too...it gets *so* soft when you wash it, and it keeps you toasty warm in
winter!

Grania

From: Tom Perigrin (4/14/94)
To: markh at sphinx
oak spears?

Sorry for the delay on replying...

A "walking wheel" is a type of spinning wheel that one uses while standing
up.  In fact, one walks back and forth and back and forth...   The wheel is
anywhere from 3' to 5' in diameter, but it is also wide, but thin!  I make
them out of 3" wide 1/8 thick oak.   (They don't have to bear much force).

<snip>

Yours,
Ld. Thomas Ignatius Pergrinus

From: rosalind at kenton.iii.net (Donna Kenton)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Lace Making
Date: 22 Nov 1994 13:04:34 GMT
Organization: iii.net subscriber

In article <0Di5Vc4w165w at bregeuf.stonemarche.org>, una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk) says:

>> Also, I'm tempted to dabble in spinning; how hard is it to find a spinning
>> wheel? Are spinning wheels terribly expensive?
>> 
Halcyon Yarn in Bath, Maine, at 800-341-0282 has wheels, books, and 
fibers as well as qualified help.  Everyone there knows different fiber
arts, and they'll transfer you to someone who can help you.

Also, I've started spinning this summer, and it you'd like to talk about
this through E-mail, that would great.

Rosalinde De Witte

From: corliss at hal.physics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Lace making - Ann Arbor
Date: 21 Nov 1994 10:37:11 -0500
Organization: The Internet

Greetings from Beorthwine-

While I do not know of anyone making lace in Cynnabar (Ann Arbor), there 
is some very good work being done near by. 

By any chance, have you spoken with Lady Persephone, the (new) Arts and 
Sciences officer there, or to Lady Arianna, who has just become the 
Regional A&S officer? Your local officers should always be an excellent 
point of contact for such questions. Certainly those in Cynnabar are very 
good.

You will want to contact Lady Jeanne Anne le Bonnetiere, (Nancy Evans on 
Edsel in Clinton Township, about an hour and fifteen minute drive from 
Ann Arbor). Her work is excellent and she is a fine teacher. She is well 
aquainted with others doing this kind of work in the area. 

You mention that you are also interested in spinning. While I do not 
spin, I have generally heard it recomended that a gentle begin spinning 
with a drop spindle. Certainly, apart from other considerations, it 
seems wise to put off buying a spinning wheel until one has determined a 
considerable interest in the subject. Drop spindles with round whorls are 
readily available at many SCA events and in stores catering to spinners 
and weavers: you will certainly want to visit Traditional Handcrafts in 
Northville, about 40 minutes away. From my own experience, having been 
told by several people that Turkish/Palestinian/Double arm spindles (all the 
same thing) are far superior to those with round whorls when spinning 
medium to heavy yarns (whorls still being preferred for supported 
spinning): they wobble far less, and hence waste very little energy. 
Nearly all the available energy goes into the spinning, and they spin 
much longer with less difficulties, for the same effort. Unfortunately, 
they are hard to come by. I make them (they are truly are trivial to make)
and, as I will be at the Cynnabar Wassail next month, I can show you one. 
Also in attendance will be Lady Estrella of Trinity, the fairest and most 
graceful of ladies, who is also an accomplished spinner and teacher. She 
swears by the Turkish spindle and has several of them. Ask her to show 
you her work: she has a talent for getting people to start to spin 
(basic heavy wool yarn) on the spot. See you there!

Beorthwine of Grafham Wood, one-time Cynnabar MOS

From: corliss at hal.physics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Turkish/Palestinian/Double Arm Spindles
Date: 21 Nov 1994 11:07:13 -0500

Greetings to all from Beorthwine of Grafham Wood-

These spindles are very simple to make and work better than drop spidles 
with round whorls for medium to heavy yarns. I have not seen one that 
works well for light threads and a supported spindle with a small light 
whorl is better for such material.

(David Corliss, the physicist, butts in here: I don't know anything about 
spinning but understand tops well. Turkish spindles are superior because 
the nutations ("wobbles") are heavily damped (go away quickly): if you 
set one spinning and deliberately make it wobble, this disturbance 
quickly vanishes. Thus, a much higher portion of the applied effort goes 
into spinning the fibers and less is dissipated, giving a spindle that 
spins far longer and straighter for the same effort.)

Make a solid piece of wood eight inches long, 3/4 to one inch wide, 
and 3/16 to 1/4 inch thick. Make another. Smooth _very_ carefully 
and thoroughly. Drill a quarter inch diameter hole through the center of 
both pieces. Cut a ten inch lenth of quarter inch diameter dowel rod and 
put a dull point at one end. That's it!

         ___________________________________________________________
         l                                                         l
         l                           X <-- 1/4 inch hole           l
         l                                                         l
         -----------------------------------------------------------

                                l
                                l
                                l
                                l
                                l
                                l
                                l
                                l
                                l
                                l
                       ------------------
                                l
                                v

Hold the whole thing together by wrapping a length of yarn around it. 
Wrap the yarn you spin about it in the same fashion. When you are done, 
just pull out the rod and the other pieces will come out as well, leaving 
a neat ball ready for weaving.

Beorthwine of Grafham Wood

From: hrjones at uclink.berkeley.edu (Heather Rose Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Spinning/Lace Making
Date: 26 Nov 1994 16:42:45 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley

: Also, I'm tempted to dabble in spinning; how hard is it to find a spinning
: wheel? Are spinning wheels terribly expensive?

: Pattie Rayl

Yes, they do tend to be expensive. (Mine cost close to $300 a decade and 
a half ago.) But fortunately, you don't need a wheel to start learning to 
spin. Spinning with a drop spindle is very cheap on the equipment side, 
authentic for any part of the SCA period, and in my opinion an easier way 
to learn spinning. The essence of a drop spindle is a stick (about a foot 
long) with a notch at the top and a weight at the bottom. Commonly the 
weight will be a wooden disk or a large ceramic "bead". The stick should 
protrude slightly below the weight and the weight _must_ be fastened 
firmly to the stick. (There are a number of other authentic historical 
designs for drop spindles -- sometimes specialized for particular fibers 
-- but this is the one I'm most familiar with.) Fasten your starter yarn 
onto the spindle just above the weight, loop it down around the bottom of 
the spindle then up to a half-hitch around the notch. Note the spin 
direction of your starter yarn. Hold the loose end of the yarn in one 
hand and the top of the spindle in the other. Twist the spindle between 
your fingers in the appropriate direction to spin the yarn tighter, and 
let go so it hangs spinning from the yarn. Begin adding fresh fiber to 
the free end of the yarn (this is the tricky part and the one best 
demonstrated in person). Respin the spindle when it stops. When the yarn 
gets too long to manage, undo the half-hitch and loop, wind some of the 
yard around the spindle, and set up to go again.

Several times I've taught spinning classes where the first thing I had 
people do was make their own spindles. It's really _that_ easy!

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn

From: salley at niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Spinning/Lace Making
Date: 27 Nov 94 12:45:26 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn (Heather Rose Jones) writes:
> : Also, I'm tempted to dabble in spinning; how hard is it to find a spinning
> : wheel? Are spinning wheels terribly expensive?
> : Pattie Rayl
 
> Yes, they do tend to be expensive. (Mine cost close to $300 a decade and 
> a half ago.) But fortunately, you don't need a wheel to start learning to 
> spin. 

As the A&S officer for my barony and someone who knows his way around 
libraries, I often helped my fellow barony members who were intimidated by
them.  One gentlewoman was looking for documentation on spinning and
weaving.  Among the books I found for her was a pamphlet on how to make a
usable spinning wheel out of an old bicycle.  Total cost was about $75 not 
including the bike.  I wondered why you wouldn't just buy a wheel, but if
they're $300+, that may explain it. ;-)

                                                       - Dagonell

SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr
Habitat	    : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony
Internet    : salley at niktow.cs.canisius.edu
USnail-net  : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029
Movie Double Feature : "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum" and 
	"Roman Holiday" (Contributed by Ianthe d'Averoigne)

From: gwennis at infinet.com (Gwennis Mooncat)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Turkish/Palestinian/Double Arm Spindles
Date: 22 Nov 1994 23:29:06 GMT

David J. Corliss (corliss at hal.physics.wayne.EDU) wrote:
: Hold the whole thing together by wrapping a length of yarn around it. 
: Wrap the yarn you spin about it in the same fashion. When you are done, 
: just pull out the rod and the other pieces will come out as well, leaving 
: a neat ball ready for weaving.

actually, it makes a neat ball that is ready to ply or wind on a
niddy-noddy.  then you set the twist, then it is ready to use.  just a minor
correction!  8) 

gwennis, who still does better on a wheel...
**************************************************************************
mistress gwynydd ni gelligaer, ol, called gwennis       natural dyes maven
tarkhanum, khanate basking lizard, great darke horde    i have 2 cats   8)
shire of tirnewydd, barony middle marches, midrealm         columbus, ohio
member #34497     society for creative anachronism     usenet: rec.org.sca
email: gwennis at infinet.com   wizard at sanctuary: telnet 198.30.154.3 7200

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: Andrew Lowry <alowry at wchat.on.ca>
Subject: Iceland Knitting / Nalebinding
Organization: WorldChat / The Online Source, Burlington Ontario.
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 23:41:29 GMT

Good gentles of the SCA. My lady who is interested in 10 th Century 
Norse culture and anything to do with wool and knitting has found a 
company (person) that may be of interest to others so inclined.The lady 
in question is:

Louise Heite
Importer of Icelandic Wool
Post Office Box 53
Camden, Delware 19934
Compuserve 76254,231
1-800-777-9665  Fax (302) 697-7758

Various items of interest to early period knitters, weavers and spinners 
are for sale including the bane of all SCAers - books! My lady is 
particularly excited about the opportunity to buy Nalebinding needles 
and  a book, Foroysk Bindingarmynstur. They also carry reindeer antler 
buttons. 

So if you are interested drop them a line and you can get your flyer.

Regards
Richard Larmer

From: dickeney at access1.digex.net (Dick Eney)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: spinning/weaving:animals used?
Date: 14 Sep 1995 11:49:28 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA

Tamar (sharing account dickeney at access.digex.net) says: dog hair probably 
was used.  Archaeological accounts (_Prehistoric Textiles_, and a book 
about Scandinavian Textiles) indicate that cow hair and horse hair was 
used, besides the more usual (to us) sheep and goat hair.  However, the 
coarser hairs I recall were used to make socks (often with needle-looping 
rather than knitting) instead of woven cloth.  But check the books rather 
than my memory (my books are still in boxes).

-- Tamar (sharing account dickeney at access.digex.net)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: spinning/weaving:animals used?
From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk)
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 18:22:36 EDT

rayotte at badlands.NoDak.edu (Robert Ayotte) writes:
> 	Does anyone have some information if dog hair was used in period 
> for production of yarns?  Any sources would be appricated.
> 
> 	Horace
> 
	_Spin Span Spun_, by Bette Hotcheberg, may have what you need. She
didn't miss much. Check good spinning stores.

                                Yours in service to the Society-
                                (Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk R.S.F. 
                                Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf C.O.L. SCA
                                Una Wicca (That Pict)

From: devonab at aol.com (Devon AB)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Help - Source for Spinning Wheels/Looms?????
Date: 26 Mar 1996 02:04:49 -0500

While not a spinner or weaver myself, I have heard wonderful things
told of a place called;
   The Sheep and Wool Shop
   4977 Ridge Chapel Road
    Marion, NY 14505
    716-381-3100

I know that they have looms, spinning and carding devices, but alas I can
not tell you what brands.  I DO know my lady spent a great deal of money
at the shop, and that they do mail-order as well.  I hope you find them
useful!

Devon Adair Bartholomy

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cheap ugly spinning wheels available
From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honour Horne-Jaruk)
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 97 23:50:07 EST

mms6824 at atlas.tntech.edu (Mary Spila) writes:
> what do they look like?  Saxony Style, castle style, Charka?  
> 
> Marian, The Spinster
> 
> una at bregeuf.stonemarche.or
> >     I've stumbled across a source for spinning wheels which, 
> > while uglier than Sin unchained, work as well as the very best and
> > only cost US $100. 
> >     The only problen is, they are made of modern materials and
> > would _not_ be suitable for use at events.
> >     ... Any opinions as to whether there would be interest in them?

        Respected friend:
        They're castle-style, and mostly plastic. As I said, ugly.
But they come with 6 bobbins, 3 at 5:1, 3 at 6:1, and experienced
spinners can get the ultrafast 18:1 bobbins for US$4 each.
        ...He's got an experimental double-flyer production model, 
too... about US$145 including shipping.
        (Americans, aparently unable to cope with the idea that 
people with two hands could spin two threads, dubbed these "gossip"
wheels, and came up with the interesting idea that two people with 
a total of four hands and four feet between them were somehow
better off using only two hands and only one foot to spin. This
is very cute, but useless and senseless. The original purpose
was to double the thread produced without doubling the time
spent spinning.)
        If I can get 4 co-conspiritors, I can get the single-head 
version wholesale for US$80 plus S&H; Email me.

                                Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf
                                Una Wicca (That Pict)
                                (Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk, R.S.F.

To: <markh at risc.sps.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Cheap ugly spinning wheels available
From: <una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org>
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 97 11:48:08 EST

markh at risc.sps.mot.com (Mark S. Harris) writes:
>   I suspect that there will be of interest. If you wish to make the
> source public, I would love to add such a message of my spinning-msg file.
>
> I'm not enough of a spinner to get one myself. The one time I tried to
> do drop spinning the thread kept breaking and getting shorter and shorter
> rather than longer. :-)
>
> Stefan li Rous

	Respected Friend:
	... pity I can't teach you myself; if I can get a three-year-old
spinning with a potato-and-pencil spindle, I can certainly help you!
	However:
	Babe's Fiber Starter (TM)
	Great Yarn Loft Co.,
	120 N. York Road, suite 220
	Elmhurst, IL 60126
	HTTP://WWW.smartgate.com\yarnspin
	Retail, they're US$99 plus US$6 shipping&handling.
	They come with 6 bobbins, 3 at 5:1 and 3 at 6:1 ;
18:1 bobbins are available for US$4 each, but are recommended only for
_experienced_ spinners.
	The builder is working on the possibility of a double-flyer
version, for people who are ready for 2-handed production spinning,
but want to try it out for less than US$796 -US$1,330. It may
be several months before he has a prototype ready for testing; but
it might be worth getting your name in, in case he does get a
working model.
	There you go-		Honour/Una/Alizaunde

From: djheydt at uclink.berkeley.edu (Dorothy J Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: silk spinning supplies??
Date: 21 Mar 1997 17:21:38 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley

MISS PATRICIA M HEFNER <HPGV80D at prodigy.COM> wrote:
>Does anybody know of a mail-order business that sells raw silk, ready to
>spin? ....

Not in Oregon, but try this:

        Straw Into Gold
        3006 San Pablo
        Berkeley CA 94702
        510:548-5241

They don't carry as many fibers as they used to, but I know they
still have some silk.  

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                          Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                Albany, California
PRO DEO ET REGE                                     djheydt at uclink

Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:25:34 -0500
From: caroline at netusa1.net (mystarwin/Moira)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Warp Dress for fine singles wool

>One of the things that's obvious, to my eye, when looking at photographs
>of migration era wool fabrics (usually a four-harness twill type woven
>from singles), is the quality and evenness of the spinning. The person
>who spun the wool consistently knew what the end result was going to be
>and selected her wool accordingly for the cloth she had in mind. The
>wool was then processed with a consistency I, as a fairly new spinner,
>can at this point only envy.

>ciorstan

to get a consistent fine spin on your wool, make a lap cloth.  Take a dark
colour of fabric, mark off in inches so you know how long of a draw to
consistently pull.  The finer the thread, the tighter the twist, so be aware
of that, otherwise the silly stuff will just break all over the place.  To
test for the right twist, just let go occasionally and see how hard it
doubles up.  I like mine pretty tight, since when I ply it, it holds better
and is finer than usual.  Most of the spinners here have lost the talent to
do large, fluffy yarn due to we like to spin out very fine stuff.  Once you
do get the hang of spinning fine, try some flax.  You have to keep your
fingers wet tho, to keep it from grabbing onto your fingers.  Flax is also
very rough on your skin, so keep the lotion handy!

Moira Breabadair, MoAS
Shire of Narrental

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 05:55:56 -0400
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: LIST SCA arts <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Drum Carders/wheels and looms-making

OK the book you need is Wheels and looms by David Bryant, gives details of
maning Spinning Wheels, Looms, Drum carders and ,most other accesories,
brill.

Mel

From: priest at NOSPAMvassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Spinning Wheels (was Making a period viking tent)
Date: 26 Oct 1998 03:22:21 GMT
Organization: Vassar College

Wilelm the Smith (powers at snoopy.cis.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
>>>Ah the spinning wheel wasn't invented yet during the migration era; but
>>>I can provide you with a soapstone spindle whorl; I assume you
>>>were thinking of a vertical loom.    
>
>>The spinning wheel *had* been invented by the Migration Age, but it hadn't 
>>made it to Europe yet:  they were using it for cotton out East.
>>Thora Sharptooth
>
>I'm sorry I was just going on "Cathedral, Forge and Waterwheel" by 
>Frances and Joseph Geis which mentions that the spinning wheel was
>introduced to europe in the 13th century, (earliest picture Baghdad 1237),
>from the east.  So I asked my wife the spinster and she said that
>the great wheel dates to about 1000; would you be refering to a charka (sp)
>for spinning cotton?

John Munro's article on "Textile Technology" in the _Encyclopedia of the 
Middle Ages_ says that the first documented use of the great-wheel style of 
spinning wheel is in the "twelfth-century Italian fustian industry" and that 
it came in via "the Muslim cotton industries."  He cites Endrei, whom I 
haven't read, and Mazzaoui, whom I have.  I'd be interested in other 
references to the great wheel in Europe, especially if they date it before the 
twelfth century.

It's pretty widely agreed in the literature that the great wheel developed 
from the charka.  The charka, accordingly, is *significantly* older than the 
great wheel.
***********************************************************
Carolyn Priest-Dorman         Thora Sharptooth
capriest  at  cs. vassar. edu    Frostahlid, Austrrik
    http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/textileres.html
***********************************************************

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:30:20 -0800
From: Eleanor of Leycestershyre <hekav at gte.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re:Distaffs on the cheap!

CKONOW at aol.com wrote:
> Hi....the bundle, or strick, of flax can be a bit unwieldy.  Therefore, it is
> tied onto the distaff to give it a place to be, out of the way, and yet still
> be spinnable.  I don't have a distaff on either of my wheels, so I place the
> strick into a towel and roll it up.  It does about the same thing.  Now if I
> could only get that straw-into-gold thing going...Thea

I don't have a distaff on my wheel either, and just haven't managed to
afford one of those $75.00 free-standing ones that I see in catalogs.  :-<  I have also used the "towel trick"...but I wasn't very happy with that.  

I have started using a commercially combed roving instead, which spins much like a wool roving. But, the staple length is only about 3 to 4 inches.  :-< This is *allright* and I still get a nice fine single, however, I really want to spin from the strick!  I tried putting the strick over my shoulder, but that just resulted in a rather unwieldy and messy strick!  :-<  I finally ended up cutting the strick up into 4" chunks, recombing, into rovings or rolags, and spinning from those.  This worked very well...but still not the same effect as spinning the long line strick.
Arrgh!

There are many kinds of distaffs.  Patsy Zawiatowski (sp?) in her video tape
suggests taking a length of dowel, about 1/2" - 3/4", and glueing some large
beads, spaced a little apart, at one end.  She then ties a ribbon ("which
should match the color of your eyes"...according to her.  :->) in the middle of the strick, ties the strick to the dowel at the point where the beads are.  She
then wraps the strick with the remaining ribbon in the usual fashion, and uses a
music stand or dress form base to hold the "distaff" upright.

I thought this a rather clever idea, though I have yet to try it.  Don't have a
music stand, and my dress form always has a garment in progress, on it!  ;-) In
period manuscript pictures, I've seen ladies holding the distaff under one
arm...which looks very uncomfortable...or even tucked into their belt...also
not too appealing to me.

I came up with the idea of using one of those inexpensive commercial flag/banner
poles that you see everywhere these days, that people use to display little
seasonal banners in front of their houses.  It already has a nice knob on one
end.  I'll tie the strick on just as patsy does, but then haven't decided on the
base yet.  I've thought about a coffee can filled with plaster of paris...but not delighted with that idea.

Anyone got any other ideas that might work well for the base?  I have no wood
working tools, so it needs to be simple to do.

Eleanor

Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:43:09 -0700
From: Curtis & Mary <ladymari at cybertrails.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Distaffs on the cheap!

> I don't have a distaff on my wheel either, and just haven't managed to
> afford one of those $75.00 free-standing ones that I see in catalogs.

I never thought of buying one :-0  Mine is made from an old wooden tool
handle that broke at the tool end.  I have a sort of homemade pole holder I found in the junk pile in the yard when I moved in, but another sort would be an old live christmas tree stand, you know with three screws that you screw in tight to the trunk? Check out the Salvation Army over the next couple of month, I'm sure you'll find one, and if it's too light to stay put pour some redimix concrete or plaster of paris into the basin where you put water for the tree.  

I also found out that really, the taller the better.  You are only taking a few fibers off the bottom at a time and it's best to have those fibers a little above the orifice to the wheel so you don't get too many at once.  {Of course this is me and I spun from a *full* 3-4 ounce strick at a time--looks really cool all on the distaff at once} 

I found that thing in the belt too awkard to spin easily with, might work well for woolens, but was hard to manage with trying to spin extra fine flax.  I did discover that my wooden folding chair that I sit on to spin at events would work if I wedged the distaff just right, sometimes with a tie around it and the chair to keep it steady.

Mary, in AZ where it's cool enough to have a fire at night and taking
forever for the just washed wool to dry!

Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:44:02 -0500
From: Margo Lynn Hablutzel <Hablutzel at compuserve.com>
To: A&S List <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Fiber into Linen -- additional information

Of course, the two questions asked are the ones that most need a visual!

Percy asked for elaboration of:

<< 6)  Place combed flax on distaff for spinning. >>

A distaff looks like a tiny platform on a staff, with a pointed stick
coming out of each corner.  The flax is laid betweeen these poles in small,
straight groups alternating N-S and E-W.  You pull the ends as they hang
down, and spin off the pile on the distaff.

Check in your dictionary to see if there is a picture.  Often in children's
fairy-tale books, a spinning character (Princess Aurora a/k/a Sleeping
Beauty, or the girl in Rumplestitskin) is shown spinning on a wheel with a
distaff.

                                        --- Morgan

Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 09:10:26 -0700
From: Curtis & Mary <ladymari at cybertrails.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Linen thread

Stefan li Rous wrote:
> Lyle FitzWilliam said:
> > >Have you processed enough nettle to make any yardage? I'm curious...
> >
> > _Significant_ yardage?  No.  Enough to hand-lay into cord, yes (I didn't
> > spin it -- my mother has a Great Wheel, not a flax wheel).  The result
> > was very satisfying, though.
>
> What is the differance between a "Great Wheel" and a "flax wheel"?

The great wheel is turned by hand and is really a lot like a drop spindle
turned on it's side, with the spindle whorl grooved to take the drive band
from the wheel.  flax wheels have a 'flyer' with a seperate bobbin.  [most all
modern wheels are flyer types rather than spindle types]  Really there is no
reason you can't spin anything on any type of wheel or drop spindle.  It is a
matter of it being easier to spin certain things on different equipment.
Especially on wheels because wheels have an adjustment for revolving the
bobbin or spindle a set number of times for each revolution of the wheel.
Different sorts of wheels have different ratios.  Fine threads, especailly
flax, silk and cotton need a very high number of twists per inch, while soft
fuzzy thick woolen yarns need much less.  Modern wheels are a little more
versitile since many companys make different sorts of 'maidens and flyers' for
different purposes.  For instance, Ashford wheels, possibly the most popular
wheel sold in the US because it is one of the least expensive, comes with a
'regular' flyer, but there are also available 'lace' flyers which have very
high ratios and let you spin very fine, high twist threads with less effort
and a 'bulky' flyer which has huge bobbins and very low ratios, good for
making thick fuzzy woolen yarn.

Clear as mud, eh?  As a point of reference my older model Ashford Traditional
with a regular flyer has two ratios, depending on which groove on the flyer
I put my drive band in, one is 1:9 the other is 1:12.

Mairi, Atenveldt

Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 04:58:24 -0700 (MST)
From: starsinger at webtv.net (theresa sorrell)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: RE: Linen thread

The main difference between a flax wheel and a great wheel is size.  The
great or walking or wool wheel is about 5-6 feet tall and uses a spindle
to wind the wool on.  A flax wheel is smaller and gives a tighter twist
to the yarn and usually uses the flyer system.  You can spin wool on a
flax wheel.

The earliest woodcut I've seen printed for a spinning wheel is dated
1248.  It is an early wool type wheel with no legs.

Paula Simmons has a book on spinning, weaving and working with wool that
has plans for an almost period wheel and other accessories.  She even
tells you how to raise the sheep.

Starsinger

Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 20:08:59 -0800
From: Brett and Karen Williams <brettwi at earthlink.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Linen thread

There are some techical differences. A great wheel is, as described by
another respondent, basically a spindle set on its side and driven by a
large wheel, usually powered by the spinster's hand rather than her
foot. Great wheels are also called 'walking wheels' for this reason. A
very skilled spinster using a great wheel can, I'm told, flick her yarn
over the tip in such a way to wind on her yarn, obviating the need to
wind on by stopping the wheel and winding on slowly.

Some great wheels will have an acceleration device attached between the
drive wheel and the spindle, usually some kind of Miner's head
(so-called for the inventor, who patented his device in the early
1800's). A Miner's head is usually a wooden disk that the drive band
turns, which in turn spins the spindle. The differences in ratios
between the acceleration head (said wooden disk) and the drive band from
the main wheel increase the speed of the spindle exponentially. Most
modern wheels have a separate dingus one can order called a 'lace
flyer', which ends up turning somewhere in the 40:1 ratio; a Miner's
head or accelerating head on a great wheel will be up there above 100
and even as much as 200. A great wheel also limits one's drafting to
woolen as tending the revolutions of the great wheel pretty much
precludes using both hands for the worsted pinch.

A more modern flax wheel has both a flyer (which enables one to wind on
the spun yarn without stopping the wheel) and a treadle. The flyer has
been variously attributed to Leonardo da Vinci and Anonymous of Unknow--
and appears in Germany in the 1500's. The advantage of this type of
wheel is one need not discontinue treadling at a steady speed to wind on
one's thread thus increasing one's production speed-- plus, one can spin
worsted threads as one's foot on the treadle means both hands are free
for spinning. Before the invention of the treadle, the spinster feeding a
loom would have to spin worsted (preferred for warp as it's MUCH
stronger than woolen-spun) using a drop spindle.

ciorstan

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 13:05:38 -0700
From: Curtis & Mary <ladymari at cybertrails.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Linen thread

> A more modern flax wheel has both a flyer (which enables one to wind on
> the spun yarn without stopping the wheel) and a treadle. The flyer has
> been variously attributed to Leonardo da Vinci and Anonymous of Unknow--
> and appears in Germany in the 1500's.

Linen Handspinning and Weaveing, by Patricia Baines, page 29 shows a flyer
wheel, turned by hand instead of foot, date 1480

> Before the invention of the treadle the spinster feeding a
> loom would have to spin worsted (preferred for warp as it's MUCH
> stronger than woolen-spun) using a drop spindle.

there were also a lot of guild regulations against wheel spun yarn for certain
fabrics.  I once thought of it sort of as the union protecting the workers
status quo, but realize that the early wheels were eminently suited to woolen
spinning, but not the tight hard spun worsted, therefore the reason for the
regulations.

Mairi, Atenveldt

Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 19:34:29 -0700 (MST)
From: starsinger at webtv.net (theresa sorrell)
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Linen thread and charkas

I love that issue of spinoff with the shawls and the gloves and the
chakra spining wheels.  But charka's are not eastern european period.
Paula Simmons has a book out that give plans fo a handcranked spinning
wheel that looks a lot like the picture I saw dated areound 1248.

I also love the issue that's all about drop spindles.  I just ordered a
new one with an acorn for the end.  It's for lace weight spinning.  My
newest book is the russian gossomer weigh shawl book.  So little time.
So much to do.

Starsinger

From: eanderso at acs.ucalgary.ca (Elizabeth A. Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: An Tir Spinners Guild
Date: 17 Nov 1998 10:56:44 -0700
Organization: The University of Calgary

To interested fibre craftspeople:

The webpage for the An Tir Spinners Guild is now up at the An Tir
Kingdom site. There's information on the Guild and its e-list, a
bibliography, sources list, and a short history of spinning.

The address is: www.antir.sca.org/Guilds/Spinners

Nan Compton (mka Bess Anderson)         eanderso at ucalgary.ca
Barony of Montengarde
Principality of Avacal                        Tolle legens!

[submitted by: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net>]
From: brenmichevans <brenmichevans at MCI2000.com>
To: sca-middle at dnaco.net <sca-middle at dnaco.net>
Date: Tuesday, December 29, 1998 10:41 PM
Subject: [Mid] Hook spindles

A question for the more experienced spinners on the Bridge-

Several years ago, I bought a hook spindle at Pennsic, and received some
basic instruction on how to use it.  I have used it to spin some very small
amounts of various fibers.  I have a wheel, and use that by preference, but
purchased it because I wanted to have a way to hand spin for A & S.  I know
how to use a drop spindle, but I am right-handed and have a medical
condition that cuts off the circulation to my left arm when I raise it, so
I don't use it any more except briefly for demos.

My question is-is it possible to spin a thread of significant length on
this device?  I was taught to wind the completed thread onto the spindle
itself, and I leave the bottom half of the spindle clear so I can spin it
across my thigh.  It takes very little time for the thread to become
sufficiently bulky to get in my way.  Is there a way to wind the thread
into a ball or something while still leaving it continuously attached to
the spindle, or do I simply have to cut the thread and start over every
time this happens?  I'm sure the answer to this is very obvious, and I'll
feel stupid when I find out, but right now, I just can't figure it!

Lady Brianne of Greenlea
Brenda G. Evans
brenmichevans at cwix.com

[Submitted by: "Philippa Alderton" <phlip at bright.net>]
From: Patrick Mooney <PatrickMooney at email.msn.com>
To: sca-middle at dnaco.net <sca-middle at dnaco.net>
Date: Wednesday, December 30, 1998 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Mid] Hook spindles

I have been spinning for some years and I think I may have two solutions to
your problem.

1.    Try spinning holding the fibre in your left hand with the fingers
pointed upwards and your arm bent but close to your side, draw the fibre
towards the right and across your body with the spindle hanging down on
your right side.

2.    The method I most recommend is using a distaff.  The distaff is not
just for flax, it is for all types of prepared fibre, I could bore you with
details.  My suggestion to you is to use a distaff of approximately 30" to
36" and medium/long wools, such as Romney or Lincoln (both are pretty much
period, again I could bore you on this subject).

Tuck the distaff under your left arm, or in your belt, pocket or waistband.
Place the distaff in a position that is comfortable for your arm to be in a
bent but relaxed position.  Draw the fibre with your left hand, controlling
the spinning triangle and draw it across your body to your right side. This
method can be done walking, sitting or standing.  This method can be seen
in a 15th century manuscript, Royal MS.20 CV.f75 from the British Library.

My concern is what does your hook spindle look like.  Sometimes we are told
a spindle is one thing, when in reality it is something different.  Are you
referring to a spinning hook, which looks like a bit like a crochet hook or
are you referring to a spindle with a whorl and hook at one end of the
shaft?  If you are referring to a spinning hook, then that is a different
technique.

Ercadh bean ui Padraic
(mka Carol Mooney)

From: WSPaddison at aol.com <WSPaddison at aol.com>
To: sca-middle at dnaco.net <sca-middle at dnaco.net>
Date: Wednesday, December 30, 1998 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Mid] Hook spindles

brenmichevans at MCI2000.com writes:
<< I was taught to wind the completed thread onto the spindle
 itself, and I leave the bottom half of the spindle clear so I can spin it
 across my thigh.  It takes very little time for the thread to become
 sufficiently bulky to get in my way. >>

Lady Brianne,

Although I am fairly new to spinning, I have some advice that might help. I
too was taught to wind the spindle up my leg. I ran into a few  problems.
First, it would get caught in my dress so I never could get a good quick spin.
Second, when I finally started to get something on the spindle it would bet
bunchy, matting together, thus tangling. Third, my arm tired quickly, and like
you I have nerve condition that cuts off circulation to my right arm when I
extend it. Because of all of this, Fourth....the quality of my spinning
suffered. I just basically sucked.  Since I found spinning comforting I really
didn't want to give it up so I found another way.  Try this. Take the bottom
inch of your spindle and rest it between the tips of  your middle and
forefinger the thumb of your dominant hand. Place your thumb on the spindle,
now in the motion of snapping your fingers, quickly spin and release the
spindle. I have been able to give mine an excellent long lasting spin that
allows me to spin a lenghth of 8 ft in one twirl. This technique has never
agrivated my nerve.

Arwenna Wen Seis

Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 05:58:13 -0500
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Great Wheel Plans and other textile plans

The Great wheel plans were GBP 6.20

The Spindle wheel the same (smaller version of the Great wheel)

There is also plans for, Sloping Spinning Wheel, Norwegian Spinning wheel,
Shetland, upright, english traditional, connecticut chair, arkwright,
samual crompton, French, Dordogne, Charka wheels.

Drun Carder, spinning stool, tabby loom, tablet loom, inkle loom, 4 shaft
table, foot power looms and warping mill!

Top price of any is GBP10 Plus postage of course. 
David Bryant +44 1565 651 681 (usually an ansaphone !)

He also did a book with many of these plans in it but this is now OOP.

Last time I bought plans for somebody in the US he didn't take plastic only
sterling so I sent a cheque for her, as I have a sterling & a dollar
account (and take plastic in my book business ) I'm willing to help out if
anyone is stuck

Mel

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:13:10 -0500
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver at compuserve.com
Subject: Some books on natural & period dyeing

I found some English small press publications that might be of interest to
you folks, contact me direct if you want to buy any of them.

Mel

All prices are British pounds approx 1 pound = 1.6 US dollars, plus
postage. They are A5 slim volumes.at 2.50 pounds each.

Dyer in the Garden-how to grow common dye plants & dye with them

The begineer Spinner- Basic fleece knowledge

The Medieval Dyepot-history of traditional British dyes

The spinners Rhymerie- somgs and poems about spinning, weaving and
shepherding

Knitting handspun yarns- how to calculate the right amount for a garment,
plus basic patterns.

Everything in the kitchen sink-dyeing with kitchen waste

The insatiable spinner- spinning with the likes of llama, alpaca, angora,
dogs, cats etc

The dyers palette- how to get the whole spectrum from natural dyes

A Shepherd's miscellany-, crafts rhymes, stories & traditions on Shepards &
sherherding

A Calender of common dye plants, -Nettle, dock,etc plants for dyes from
Britain

The foreroom rug- heirloom hooked rugs

Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:37:05 EDT
From: <SNSpies at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Knitting and spinning

I have spun some hemp with a drop spindle.  Works best if you employ some
saliva, but you can do it either way.  Haven't done enough to know whether
one is better than the other.

Ingvild

Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 12:46:51 -0500
From: Roberta R Comstock <froggestow at juno.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Knitting and spinning

On Wed, 7 Jul 1999 02:14:59 EDT <DUCORBEAU at aol.com> writes:
>I have spun a little flax.  I tried the dry method, as I'm not really
>sure the wet method is god for my wheel.  Any thoughts there?
>
>Morgaine

Wet spinning of linen produces a smoother firmer thread.   It really
isn't a sloppy process.  If you don't leave the occasional drop of water
standing on your wheel, it shouldn't hurt it.

Hertha
who hasn't done much spinning recently, but used to do quite a bit.

Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 17:33:36 -0600
From: "Cathie" <Jorunn at qadas.com>
To: <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject:    Re: Knitting and spinning

>I have spun a little flax.  I tried the dry method, as I'm not really sure
>the wet method is god for my wheel.  Any thoughts there?
>
>Morgaine

The wet method is how you are supposed to spin flax. It not only keeps the
fiber together while spinning it keeps the dust content to a minimum.  That
stuff is NOT GOOD to breath.  I usually wear a dust guard.   I don't get
water on my wheel and the few drops that I've got on the wood hasn't hurt it
any.  How are you using the water?

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:01:39 -0700
From: "Curtis  at  Mary" <ladymari at cybertrails.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Simplicity

> THE PROBLEM: Is this sort of a dress really period? I've seen people wear
> the sort, but I'd like to be able to find a source to document it.
>
> Elonwen

I did just this project  I used commercial roving, spun, dyed, woven at
24" wide.....7 pounds of wool. Took every bit of my spare time for
several months.  One of the things you need to decide is how fine you
want to spin and how you will finish the cloth. Fulling and shrinking
the cloth can cause a loss of as much as 25% in lenth and width.
spinning and weaving and fulling some samples are the only way to
predict how much you might lose since a lot will depend on the weaving
set as well as the type of wool. Courser wool will not shrink as much as
fine wool does{Merino shrinks like crazy with almost no agitation}.   To
help in your calculations  measure out  a known amount of wool, 2, 4, 8
ounces or so. Spin it the size you want {remembering that period cloth
was woven from singles yarn, not plied} then measure how many yards of
thread you have.  Try to keep your spinning consistent from skein to
skein {that was hard!}  Do a weaving sample from this spinning sample,
say 1/2 the width you plan your project to be by 1 yard long. When you
take it off the loom finish as you plan to finish your project. That is,
if you don't want to full it, then just wash it without agitating it.
If you are going to full it then measure it in both directions when you
get it off the loom, I use the washing machine for fulling. You can stop
it at any point, and check the cloth, when it's beginning to look like
you want, stop the machine and spin out the water.  _but_ time the
amount of time the machine was agitating, so you'll know how long to
leave it running next time! {I forgot one of my lengths of cloth in the
machine and it went through a whole cycle! shrunk twice as much as the
first peice}

When it's dry measure it again, then get a math whiz to help you figure
the percentage of shrinkage or you can rough guess by writing down the
loss, for example if it was really 36 inches long and shrinks to 34
you've lost 2 inches on the yard.  So, for every yard of cloth needed
for your dress you will have to weave 2 extra inches.  if your sample is
1/2 as wide as your finished cloth will be then multiply it's loss by 2
so you know how wide a cloth you should end up with.

Hope this helps a little.  Gee I sure rambled on, let me know if
something doesn't make sense!

Mary in Arizona
{Maistreas Mairi Broder, Atenveldt}

Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 20:49:23 -0700
From: Mary Hysong <ladymari at cybertrails.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: hand-carders or combs?

Patricia Hefner wrote:
> I've just read some notes on Stefan's Florilegium in which some gentles said
> that hand-cards are not period, but someone else said that a hand-carder had
> been excavated by some archeologists near Dublin. 

we have some period illuminations of what look like hand cards {though I
can think of a couple of them I've forgot which books they might be in,
but can post when I find them}

> They recommend combs over cards.

Cards were also used.  Depends on the type of wool which is appropriate.
Long lustre wool is best combed {I'm thinking of stuff like Cotswold and
related breeds}so it can be spun as worsted yarn, where all the fibers
are parallel to the length of the thread. This makes a long lasting hard
wearing yarn and was especially prized in later period because it could
have a nice nap raised, not once, but many times over it's life.  Some
evidence that clothes were re-napped and even re-dyed on a fairly
regular basis.

While shorter, softer wools were carded, and spun 'woolen' where the
fibers go in all directions, but especially rights angles to the thread.
This is soft and fuzzy and is most suitable for coarse knitting, as well
as weft thread in weaving heavy cloth for cloaks or 'ruggs'

> I used to spin but haven't done it in eons. I'm trying to start back
> but I haven't done very much research into period spinning. 

It's a little like bike riding, won't take you long to get back in the
'spin' {can't help it I was a herald before everything else }

> I prefer a drop
> spindle over a wheel for  $$$ reasons--some of these wheels go for $600+--
> ouch$$$.

You can get a second hand wheel like an Ashford traveler for under $300
from places like the Spinners and Weavers HouseKeeping Pages where
individuals sell and trade their extra stuff. Got mine that way. Paid
less, even with shipping for it than the cost of new, with extra things
that wouldn't have come with a new one. Just takes some looking

> Also, I'd imagine that there would be quite a difference between
> any kind of period wheel--like the Viking Great Wheel--and a modern wheel.
> Advice, suggestions, etc, etc will be greatly welcomed!

OK, I haven't a clue about the Viking wheel, not having done much
research on Vikings! But there are pictures pre 1500 of flyer type
wheels {that is with the flyer with little hooks that winds thread onto
removable bobbins, just like we see now} The main difference was it was
handturned, not foot powered. I'm not sure when they put the foot
treadle on them, everything I've seen has been post 1600, so I'm still
looking there. However, just for info, 50 or 60 years after the drawing
of this wheel was done, there is a wood cut of what seem to be pro flax
spinners {all men, BTW} spinning with spindle and distaff.

There were also guild regs against using wheel spun yarn in certain
types of cloth.  Possibly they were just interested in their pay checks
or perhaps the spindle spun yarn was finer. I know I can spin much finer
with my spindle than on my wheel.

> Whoah, I almost forgot the last part of this note. Does anyone know if there
> will be any merchants at Gulf Wars who carry period spinning items? If I
> don't have any stuff by then I may come looking for you! Thanks!

I know Master Mark of Guakler's up in British Columbia sells a repro of
a pewter whorl that he hand casts. I bought one at Estrella, but haven't
had time to try it out.

Mairi, ATenveldt

Date: 24 Feb 00 11:40:53 PST
From: Eilidh Swann <barcuk at usa.net>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: drop spindle weights

Isabelle wrote:
<< <re: drop spindles> I'm confused--some people tell me it's easier to start on a light (2 oz. or so) spindle because I don't want too much pull and some people tell me to use a heavier one. I'm going to get one of the beginners' kits from an  Internet site. I'll figure out spindles and then start to figure out this carding stuff!! These hand carders are *not* cheap. >>

I started on what I'll call a light/medium weight bottom-whorl
drop spindle. It spun like a dream.

I've experimented with some medium/heavy weight bottom-whorl
spindles since then, and I'm glad I started slightly lighter.
Because I'd had some experience, I was able to deal with the
heavier draw without feeling like I always dropped/broke my
strands.

I've made some VERY light-weight bottom-whorl spindles since
then, that I use to teach young kids. The first ones were
definitely "too light" because they light to unwind right
away. I'm going to make the next set slightly heavier to keep
the spin going, but not so heavy that the "beginner" thread
breaks constantly.

I'm still a bottom-whorl fanatic, but a few top-whorl's
I tried weren't so bad.

Hope that gives you some hints.
--
Eilidh ** eilidh at usa.net ** Darach Shire, CAID

Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 17:34:15 GMT
From: "Elonwen ferch Dafydd" <elonwen at hotmail.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: drop spindle weights

>I've experimented with some medium/heavy weight bottom-whorl
>spindles since then, and I'm glad I started slightly lighter.
>Because I'd had some experience, I was able to deal with the
>heavier draw without feeling like I always dropped/broke my
>strands.

Well, I hope I'd been that smart when I started... My lord made me a VERY 
heavy drop spindle, but for some reason or another it worked all right from 
the beginning! But now that I've used medium weight drop spindle as well, I 
can see the difference... But for making thick yarn for thick, heavy cloth, 
I still prefer the heavier version. It has its own feeling...

Elonwen

Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 10:40:43 -0800 
From: Cynthia Konow / Thea Northernridge <spinrldy at san.rr.com> 
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu 
Subject: Re: Spinning

    A few references on the history of spinning include the following:  

Fannin, Allen, Handspinning, Art and Technique, Van Norstrand Reinhold Co., 1970  

Fournier, Nola, Fournier, Jane, In Sheep's Clothing, A Handspinner's Guide to Wool, Interweave Press, 1995  

Hochberg, Bette, Spin Span Spun, Fact and Folklore for Spinners and Weavers, author published, 1979

Ross, Mabel, The Essentials of Handspinning, Ross Services, 1980  

In Sheeps Clothing will give you information about period breeds used in spinning; the rest have info about wheels and spindles and such in period.

 Thea 
------------------------------------------------------------------------ Cynthia Konow-Brownell  AKA   Thea Northernridge, Calligrapher spinrldy at san.rr.com          Weaver, Spinner, Costumer, Soapmaker San Diego, California              Barony of Calafia, Caid

From: Aceia at aol.com
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 17:57:39 EDT
Subject: BG - historical spinning and weaving site.
To: bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org

Found this tidbit and thought I would share!
 http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Woods/7831/spinning.html

-Robin

Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:03:27 -0500
From: "Sara K. Tallarovic" <electricfish at earthlink.net>
To: "Mark.S Harris (rsve60)" <mark.s.harris at motorola.com>

Don't know if this web site might provide information you are looking for
to add to the Florilegium.  It describes and discusses the wide variety of
distaff types and includes some instructions on loading a few.

http://www.ealdormere.sca.org/university/spinning/distaff.html

I've also forwarded it to the person looking for the instructions on
loading a distaff.

-Shu'la

Subject: BG - Historical Tidbit
Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 10:11:46 -0600
From: Aceia <aceia at mac.com>
To: <bryn-gwlad at ansteorra.org>

Greetings to all the spinners out there!

Saturday the 6th of Jan. was St. Distaffs' Day (AKA Roc Day)

Roc Day is a celebration for spinners
The German word for distaff if "rocken" and a distaff was sometimes called a
"rock" in English speaking countries.

St. Distaffs' Day was celebrated by spinners in Britain on Jan 7th. This is
the day after the Twelfth Night, when the Christmas festivities ended and
spinners resumed their work.

Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2004 17:10:16 -0400
From: AEllin Olafs dotter <aellin at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] available merchandise, was things they dont
	explain	about Pennsic
To: Cooks within the SCA <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>

Jadwiga Zajaczkowa / Jenne Heise wrote:
>> What's a strick of flax???
> Heck, who SELLS a strick of flax at Pennsic?
> -- Jadwiga, who is going to get back to spinning flax real soon now, 
> uh-huh!

A strick is, um, a bunch, sort of, of line flax, almost ready to spin.
You  take this flax and dress he distaff, and then you can spin.

Hardly anyone was selling it... I had taken a flax spinning class, and
had thought this was one place I'd be able to get it. Well... there was
more wool roving, and silk caps (silk prepared in the modern way for
spinning, rather than being reeled off the cocoon, as was done,) and
stuff like that, but I didn't need it. It was one of those vendors,
though, and a few more had a couple of them, but sold out early.

AEllin

From: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Date: October 11, 2006 1:36:14 PM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Spinning question

On Oct 11, 2006, at 11:58 AM, Chelsea Williams wrote:
> Good gentles of the Ansteorran list,
> I was wondering if any of you that spin had a good suggestion for a book
> about spinning. I'm interested in it and if I read a book about it and
> answer some questions, I get extra credit in one of my classes. I
> figured this was the place to turn to.
>
> -Lady Grainne Kathleen NicPadraig MacDaniel

Are you interested in drop spindles or spinning wheel?

For info on spinning wheels, I highly recommend this book. It goes
into the history of spinning wheels and describes the different types
of wheels and when they came info use:

Spinning Wheels, Spinners and Spinning
Baines, Patricia
ISBN: 0-7134-6205-1
Chrysalis Books
1996

Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
     Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas

<the end>

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