Title: textiles-msg
Subject: Period textiles.
Author: Edited by Mark S. Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: cloth, textiles, medieval, fabric, weave, linen, cotton, wool, silk, hemp

textiles-msg - 9/1/12

Medieval cloth. Silks, wool, cotton, linen.

NOTE: See also the files: looms-msg, silk-msg, cotton-msg, linen-msg, velvet-msg, piled-fabrics-msg, hemp-cloth-msg, fabric-SCA-msg.

************************************************************************
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Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From:    Jamie Elfsdottir 
To:      Matthew Newman
Date: 31-Dec-89 05:47pm
Subject: Fabrics...

I'm CERTAINLY no expert on this but I can throw in my two cents worth. Cotton
was known back to the time of the Egyptians.  But for a Romanicized Celt, it
probably would not have been worn.  It would be VERY rare much beyond the
immediate Mediteranian until well in the 1400's. LINEN, on the other hand,
which is produced from the FLAX plant, *would* be known to just about all
cultures.  However, again, it would be relatively rare.  Silk, saving in the
Eastern Mediterranian cultures or any culture having commerce with the Persian
Empire, would be almost unheard of until the 1200's to 1300's when the
returning Crusaders would start introducing it to Europe.  The BULK of fabrics
worn by the Celts in this time would be wool, furs, leather and *some*
undergarments made of linen (especially in the upper class).
  
As for boots, what we know call a boot is a relatively recent accomplishment. 
For one, it requires the use of a lathe and tinker's dam to make the foot. 
Second, joining the soul to upper would be beyond most Medieval footwear
makers.  At *best* you might find a sort of Amerind form of a knee-high soft
moccasin.  You might want to check on the types of boots worn by the Couriers
des Bois of New France (also sometimes called Plainsmen's Boots) for an
example of what I'm talking about.  Most people either wore no shoes, wooden
shoes (especially in wet areas), sandles or low booties with cross-gartering.
 
I hope this helps at all.
  
     I remain, as always
                                   Yr. Servant,
                                     Canair James St. Aubyn

From: karplus at ararat.ucsc.edu (Kevin Karplus)
Date: 11 Nov 90 22:35:25 GMT

I have been reading some textile histories recently---there is really
a surprising amount known about medieval fabrics, despite the
relatively small number that have survived.

Here are some of the tidbits I picked up (sorry no sources---you'll have
to do your own reading!).

When machine spun thread was first introduced, it was used only for
weft, not warp, because it wasn't strong enough.  It took years before
machine spun yarn was as strong as hand spun.  I believe that handspun
is now generally of significantly lower quality than machine spun,
mainly because yarn is too cheap to justify the immense amount of
skilled labor needed to produce high-quality handspun.

The finest medieval fabrics were generally silks (as the finest modern
fabrics are) but linen and wool were quite common for less sumptious
garments.  Many Islamic sects prohibited the wearing of silk for men,
and so some very fine cotton and linen was also woven.

Reeled silk hasn't changed much over the last 400 years, and the
finest work done today is no finer than the finest work done then.
Silk may be somewhat cheaper today, and simple pattern weaves may be
available, but the patterned silk velvets and brocades aren't much in
demand these days, and so are essentially unavailable.

Linen varies a lot in fineness, partly because of different harvesting
and retting practices.  The finest linen now available may not match
the finest available in the past, because the economics of linen
production require maximizing the yield, a very different goal than
obtaining the finest fibers.

The best of the medieval cloth was very good indeed, but so is the
best of the modern cloth, but don't expect to find either at a
discount yardage store.  

The bulk of medieval weaving was for commercial purposes---sturdy pack
cloth, woolen garments, ... .  This material has for the most part not
been preserved or recorded.  Modern utilitarian cloth is probably as
good or better for the purposes intended, and is definitely much
cheaper.  True duplications of medieval utilitarian cloth is rare, as
linen and wool are now luxury fibers, rather than everyday ones.

(Incidentally, the finest stuff I've woven in 72/2 linen lace at about
36 ends per inch---that is fine by modern handweaving standards, but
still rather coarse by commercial or medieval weaving standards.)

Knud Kaukinen           Kevin Karplus
inactive in the West    teaching at UCSC

From: haslock at rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Date: 12 Nov 90 21:35:05 GMT
Organization: DECwest, Digital Equipment Corp., Bellevue WA

In article <8802 at darkstar.ucsc.edu>, karplus at ararat.ucsc.edu (Kevin Karplus)
writes:
> I have been rNeHing some textile histories recently---there is really
> a surprising amount known about medieval fabrics, despite the
> relatively small number that have survived.

Me too.
> 
> Here are some of the tidbits I picked up (sorry no sources---you'll have
> to do your own reading!).

Me too.
> 
> The finest medieval fabrics were generally silks (as the finest modern
> fabrics are) but linen and wool were quite common for less sumptious
> garments.

The chinese were, in period, weaving silk at 400 to 600 threads per inch. Silk
has the advantage of not needing to be spun so much as the other available
fibers.

> Linen varies a lot in fineness, partly because of different harvesting
> and retting practices.

Linen is also a hairier yarn than silk which makes it more difficult to
open the shed to pass the shuttle through. The hairiness tends to abrade the 
adjacent fibers. When the threads are fine, they are also weaker but have to
take more abrasion because the shed has to be opened so many more times for
every inch of fabric. 
> 
> (Incidentally, the finest stuff I've woven in 72/2 linen lace at about
> 36 ends per inch---that is fine by modern handweaving standards, but
> still rather coarse by commercial or medieval weaving standards.)

My reference claimes that the period definition of fine cloth was that it had
more than 2000 warp threads and was evenweave, i.e. the same number of treads
per inch for both warp and weft. This doesn't help much if you don't know the
width of the cloth. A few pages later, I found the remark the one of the
English kings tried to legislate a change from five quarters of a yard to
six quarters of a yard. If we assume that the 2000 threads applies to 
5/4 yds we get 2000threads/ 45inchs or 44 trheads to the inch.

        Fiacha
        Aquaterra, AnTir

From: kay at hjuxa (35G-KAY)
Date: 13 Nov 90 16:48:29 GMT
Organization: DEC
> width of the cloth. A few pages later, I found the remark the one of the
> English kings tried to legislate a change from five quarters of a yard to
> six quarters of a yard. If we assume that the 2000 threads applies to 
> 5/4 yds we get 2000threads/ 45inchs or 44 trheads to the inch.
> 
To further muddy the waters, there is the question of which type of "yard"
the knight was referring to.  Something I ran accross in reading about the
100 Years War was the reference to arrows.  A thesis I read in the Mich.
State library speculated that the "cloth yard shaft" of the English longbow
was a _Flemish_ yard, or ell, not an English yard.  This makes the arrows
long for those folks, but average today; an ell is 28 inches.  (Can
someone check this against the findings on the "MARY ROSE"?)

According to my calculator, if 2000 is a good figure for the 5/4 yard,
this brings the thread count up to 57 and a bit threads per inch
(2000/28*5/4) at 5/4 yards and 47+ at 6/4.  Yow!

>       Fiacha
- 
        Bart the Bewildered, Carillion, East
        (mka Paul Kay, Freehold, NJ, USA)
        (kay at unx.dec.com, kay%bart at unx.dec.com, bewildrd%bart at unx.dec.com) 

From: haslock at rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Date: 14 Nov 90 20:31:49 GMT
Organization: DECwest, Digital Equipment Corp., Bellevue WA 

I have finally brought my reference to work and I am now quoting from 
'The Book of Looms' by Eric Broudy. 
 
One historian has written that the best of Flemish clothmakers utilized 
over seventy different specialists. Another has put the number at 
twenty-six... 
. 
. 
. 
A Suffolk clothier who in 1618 made twenty broadcloths a week would employ in various ways five hundred persons.
.
.
.
All first-class cloth had the same quality weft and warp and a set number
of warp threads that guaranteed the closeness of the texture. In Provins,
for example, the number was 2200. Cloth with only 2000 (vingtaines) was
considered cheap.
.
.
.
One dispute from 1406 concerns a decree of Henry IV who ordered that the
width of cloth be increased from five-quarters of a yard to six-quarters.
.
.
.
Wheel spun yarn was prohibited in Abbeville in 1288. In 1290 a Drapers Guild
regulation at Speyer prohibited the use of wheel spun yarn for the warp but
allowed it for the weft. The medieval wheel was more like a mounted spindle
than a spinning wheel. It had no flyer until the late fourteenth century and
was turned by a hand crank until the development of the crank and connecting
rod in the early sixteenth century. Guild members felt that a finer
stronger thread could be spun by the drop spindle, and this simple tool
remained the preferred method until the fifteenth century.

Back to me confusing things. The book includes a number of interesting
pictures and illustrations. Most of them show a two treadle, two harness
loom. These date from 1368 to 1641. One shows a two man, four harness
counterbalance loom (from the back so you can't see the treadles. This
is apparently taken from the Ypres Book of Trades c 1310 but the illustration
was taken from a book dated 1847.

The book has an extensive bibliography but does not give references for
any of the quotes above.

Given Bart's comment about the clothyard during the hundred years war and the
fact the Henry VIII defined the english yard at its current value. I tend to
believe that the 2000 or 2200 threads are squished into 35 inches ( 5/4 of
28"). I would appreciate any further data on this point.

        Fiacha
        Aquaterra, AnTir

From: DRS at UNCVX1.BITNET ("Dennis R. Sherman")
Date: 3 Dec 91 03:32:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

For further information on period construction techniques, see
if you can find (probably via interlibrary loan from a school with
a textiles specialty)

Flury-Lemberg, Mechthild; _Textile Conservation and Research, a
documentation of the textile department on the occasion of the
twentieth anniversary of the Abegg Foundation_; Bern: Abegg-Stiftung,
1988.

Its filled with pictures and drawings showing original articles and
the steps taken to preserve them - which often means taking them
apart to clean (giving good pattern examples - some are even
drafted to [metric] scale).  Lots of discussion of materials used.
Articles include tapestries, flags, embroidery, garments (including
knit gloves of the 15th century, if memory serves, and shoes with
cork soles) a full Landesknecht uniform - the color pictures are
glorious - 16th century shirts, and all kinds of neat stuff.
This is a fun book, especially if you are interested in clothing
construction.

     Robyyan Torr d'Elandris                Dennis R. Sherman
     Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill        Chapel Hill, NC
     Atlantia                               drs at uncvx1.bitnet
                                            drs at uncvx1.oit.unc.edu

Subj: fleeces
Date: 6 Feb 92 
From: ron at mlfarm.com (Ronald Florence)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: Maple Lawn Farm, Stonington, CT

Our flock of Cotswold and colored sheep was recently sheared, and we
still have a few excellent fleeces available for sale to handspinners.
We will be offering these fleeces to our semi-commercial buyers soon
(they run spinning schools).

The Cotswold fleeces are extremely long-staple and lustrous, ranging
in color from bright white to ivory.  To keep the fleeces clean, the
sheep are raised on pasture, fed no alfalfa hay before shearing, and
are sheared by Kevin Ford, using blades.  The fleeces are skirted and
free of belly wool, hay, and second cuts.

sheep		weight	breed		comments

George		17.0	Cotswold	very white, long
Jeffery		12.0	Cotswold	very white, medium-staple
Moses		11.5	Cotswold	medium-long lamb fleece	SOLD
Amy			11.5	Cotswold	long, very lustrous
Sydney		11.0	Cotswold	long
Dumpling		10.0	Romney X	grey/brown, medium	SOLD
Amew		14.0	Cotswold	long, very lustrous
Pearl			12.0	Cotswold X	coffee-colored, long
Ramona		8.5	Cotswold	medium
Maggie		13.5	Cotswold X	cafe-au-lait, long		SOLD
Grace		13.5	Romney		long, heavy crimp
Mary			11.0	Romney X	silver/charcoal, coarse
Annie		14.0	Cotswold X	pale silver, long		SOLD
Oreo			7.5	Columbia X	cafe-au-lait, fine		SOLD
Brennan		17.0	Cotswold	long, very lustrous
Quimby		7.5	Cotswold	medium
Remy			10.0	Cotswold	medium, very white
Change		9.0	Cotswold	medium, very white lamb fleece
Continuity		12.0	Cotswold	long lamb fleece		SOLD
Serenity		5.0	Cotswold	medium-short, white lamb fleece

We charge $4 per pound for the long-staple (7-10 inch) fleeces, and $3
per pound for the medium-staple (4-7 inch) fleeces.  We will pay UPS
shipping on all prepaid orders.

Please send email, call 203.535.3815, or fax 203.535.3576.  Thanks.
-- 
				Ronald Florence
				ron at mlfarm.com

Re: authenticty and social reality
Date: 16 May 92 
From: ilaine at panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992May15.173841.27660 at watson.ibm.com> mittle at watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman) writes:
>
>It occurs to me that there may be some arts in which is impossible to
>re-create them except in the context of an inauthentic SCA invention.  For
>example, consider court ceremony.  It is impossible for a court ceremony to
>be completely authentic, since the things we are trying to do are by their
>nature not authentic.  Does this bar any possibility of a Laurel for
>re-creating period ceremony?

	I'd been hoping to let this arguement pass me by, but no dice.
We live in the modern world, and it is impossoble for all arts to be completely
authentic, not just some. You can get further than most with the textile arts.
Weaving was something that was done in the home, with tools still available
today. However, you are then stuck as either early period or peasant. If
you have any interest in Renaissance or Tudor garb you are out of luck unless
you are capable of weaving at ovdf 1000 threads per inch. Ok, there is an old 
workshop in Italy, if you can pay $900 a meter. However, when trying to make
an authentic piece  you have to make choices and compromises, not just in
your everyday projects, but in your long term killer-authentic pieces. 
	Sticking to a field I know about, you cannot make absolutely authentic
linen bobbin lace. There is little demand for super-fine linen thread today,
even the companies which make linen lace thread have been dropping the finest
sizes in the last few years 180/2 went 5 or 6 years ago, 140/2 went a couple
years ago, the best I have found lately is 120/2. The threads you can get
have slubs and are not the perfectly even texture of period threads. I can
spin very fine, but even 120/2 is beyond my skills. Cotton is an appropriate
substitute, because it is available in finer sizes, and smoother texture than
linen today. 
	So, you have a choice between using the authentic material, and having 
a piece that is lower quality than the period piece would be, or using a 
substitute, and having the appropriate fineness. However, I can use a period
style pillow, bobbins, pins, etc. and turn out a pretty darn good compromise.
	I have a couple of lace bobbins which I feel are more period than any
I will ever own. My lord hand carved them for me in his spare time, whilst
he was signed on with the Golden Hinde. He doesn't know anything about bobbin
styles, but I showed him a couple, explained the necessary features for
functionality, and told him it was period for sailors to carve bobbins to give
to their lacemaker girlfriends. Well it is :) Anyway, the bobbins are modern
in style, but they have this totally authentic karma :):):) 
	Anyway, total authenticity is impossible. The choices we make when
we compromise, and the reasons for them reflect are scholarship and our own
personal feelings. Sometimes we go for looks, sometimes we go for material,
and sometimes the provenance of an object is it's greatest appeal. No one
ever got a Laurel for absolute and perfect authenticity, because it can't be
done, and there is no reason to deny one for not reaching an ideal.
							-Ilaine
-- 
Liz Stokes         |   "No Officer, I'm not carrying any weapons. These?
Ilaine de Cameron  |    They're just wool combs, harmless spinsters use them.
                   |    Yes I realize they have 50 6 inch razor sharp steel
ilaine at panix.com   |	spikes. Each. But they're not weapons ..."

Subject:book review: textiles and clothing
Date: 1 Jun 92 
From: SHERMAN%TRLN.DECnet at uncvx1.acs.unc.EDU ("Dennis R. Sherman")
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Greetings to the Rialto from Robyyan.

My copy of _Textiles and Clothing_, the latest in the Museum of London 
series about medieval finds arrived this weekend.  For those that 
don't know, this is a series of books on recoveries from archeological 
sites in London.  The first three books in the series are _Knives and 
Scabbards_, _Shoes and Pattens_, and _Dress Accessories_.  The titles 
are indicative of the subject matter of each :-)

These books are terrific research and reconstruction material.  They 
include detailed descriptions, drawings, and photographs of recovered 
articles, in many cases with patterns from articles disassembled for 
preservation.  And they have *large* bibliographies.

This particular volume, _Textiles and Clothing_, contains information 
of interest to anyone working with cloth, although I think it will be 
of most use to weavers.  There are no complete garments included, 
although there are many fragments (i.e. pieces of a sleeve, a foot 
from hose, a couple of hoods, etc.)  I don't think there are sufficient 
clothing fragments to base a complete set of garb on the information 
here, but the information on details (how to sew buttonholes or 
eyelets, making cloth buttons, how hems and edges are turned or bound) 
is quite valuable.

Selections from the table of contents:  (typos mine, multiple -- 
indicate places where I left things out)

Techniques used in textile production
	wool-hair-linen-wilk-dyes-looms
Wool textiles
	state of preservation-the weaves of the cloths-three-shed 
	twills---tabby weaves--tapestry-knitting-felt
Goathair textiles
Linen textiles
	self-patterened weaves -- finishing
Silk textiles
	---sources of supply---tabby woven---weft-patterened---satin
	damask
Mixed cloths
Narrow wares
	tablet woven braids--fingerloop braids-plaited braids--
	-garters---hairnets
Sewing techniques and tailoring
	sewing threads-sewing techniques-bindings and facings-
	fastening methods---dagges

I highly recommend this series for people interested in historical 
accuracy in their reconstructions.

All are available from Her Majesties Stationary Office (HMSO):

	HMSO Publications Centre
	PO Box 276, London, SW8 5DT
	071-873-9090  (remember to dial for England first)

They take Visa and MasterCard.  Prices on the books are different, and
vary with the exchange rate.  _Textiles and Clothing_ cost me just
under $55, including surface mail shipping. 

Bibliographic data (try to get your local library to order these 
books! :-) --

Elisabeth Crowfoot, Frances Pritchard and Kay Staniland; _Medieval 
finds from excavations in London:4, Textiles and Clothing 
c.1150-c.1450_; London: HMSO, 1992.  ISBN 0 11 290445 9
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Robyyan Torr d'Elandris  Kapellenberg, Windmaster's Hill  Atlantia *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Dennis R. Sherman  	         Triangle Research Libraries Network *
* dennis_sherman at unc.edu       Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*

Subject: Brussels Longcloth
Date: 22 May 92 
From: ewright at convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA

Brand/Blair/Thorgrim/Jascha writes:

>I have been diligently reading upon the subject of garb in the 14th century,
>and one passage I have read is most puzzling.  It says that the common cloth
>of everyday wear was Brussels Longcloth ... what would be the modern 
>equivalent?

It would help if you gave us a more specific reference -- title, author, 
and page number -- or at least more information about who, where, and when 
in the 14th century this passage referred to.  I doubt this statement could
have applied to everyone, everywhere during the 1301-1401 period.  Was this
statement a quotation from a period source or a modern author's commentary?
If the latter, does the author cite any evidence or give sources for the
claim?  If so, that's the place to start.

In period, the word "cloth" was usually synonymous with "wool."  If a
person meant another type of fabric, such as linen or silk, he usually
said "linen" or "silk" rather than "cloth."  So, Brussels Longcloth,
assuming that is a period term, was almost certainly wool.  "Longcloth"
might refer to the length of fabric on a bolt, just as "broadcloth"
referred to the width of the fabric, or it might mean something else.
Brussels is almost certainly the city where the fabric was woven.

Consult the Oxford English Dictionary and see what it says about
"longcloth."  Also try Linthicum's "Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare
and his Contemporaries," which has a very complete section on types of
fabrics and the dates they were first produced.

-- Nicholas van Leyden

Date: 26 May 92 
From: Beth.Appleton at f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

 DC> have lady fighters, and male embroiderers.  No inquisition, no Church 
Sorry, you hit a button.  I will let others more knowlegable than I give   you the info on female fighters in period.  The bit I'm writing back      about is the male embroiders:  they are very, very period.  It was a      trade, and as such, was practiced largely by men in period.  Current      thought on the Bayeux Tapestry say that it was probably done by monks.    About the only thing to do with fibres that wasn't done by men was  spinning......
     If you'd like, I'll try to find my sources for this info again.
                Gwenllian Cwmystwyth ferch Morfudd

Subj: Early Saxon Fashion 
Date: 12 Jun 92 
From: PRIEST at vaxsar.vassar.EDU (CAROLYN PRIEST-DORMAN)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

Unto the Fishyfolk of the Rialto, particularly Walburga, greeting from Thora!

I hope I'm not confusing you all with this....  With respect to very early
Saxon fashion, I have some responses to Walburga's posting.  (I get the Digest,
so if I am a day behind, I apologize to everyone.)  She says:

>metal brocaded tablet weaving?  please, that's oop for my persona
>by about 100 years!  

Not unless your persona is from the second century or earlier, it's not.  The
Taplow Barrow finds, a late 6th or early 7th century burial site in
Buckinghamshire, had loads of gold brocaded tablet weaving.  Similar finds come
from Bifrons and Chessel Downs in the same period.  Late in the sixth century a
Frankish princess married into Saxon royalty in southeast England, and she
apparently brought this Frankish fashion with her.  Similar finds in
Frankish/Saxon lands, some of them in silk, date back to the third century.  So
strictly speaking, the technique is not OOP for you.  Now, if you want to argue
that your persona would never have worn the stuff, well, that's another matter.
;>  (Check out Elisabeth Crowfoot and Sonia Chadwick Hawkes, "Early Anglo-Saxon
Gold Braids," MEDIEVAL ARCHAEOLOGY IX (1967), pp. 42-86.)

>the rich still
>had tablet weaving at the borders of the chiton-things, but unless i
>weave the whole garment, i can't do much about that...  

Well, the application of separately tablet-woven edgings to a garment is also an
early period phenomenon.  You could always do the tablet-weaving separately and
sew it to the garment, if you can't fit a warp-weighted loom into your life. ;>

>and it was
>wool, not silk,  it just used the warp or woof threads, i forget
>which, to braid togther to make a firm edge for the piece of cloth.

Right; silk garments are unsupportable for a woman of your persona's time and
social position.  But I was speaking of the general technique of metal brocaded
silk tablet weaving (current from the sixth through the at least the fifteenth
century) rather than implying that you should make a silk peplos.  Actually, I
was razzing Aryk for implying that early period garb couldn't be a creative
time sink unless it was embroidered. ;> 
 
>i realize that the only dyes in the Sutton Hoo find
>were madder, woad, and cochineal (??), 

That's "madder, woad, and weld."  Those are the only three which have been
identified on the Sutton Hoo textiles.  Cochineal is a New World phenomenon;
kermes was the Old World equivalent, although sometimes it is called "Polish
cochineal" in books.  Lac was also occasionally used, more in the East than in
the West.  The predominant colorants from these three red dyestuffs are
similar, but chemically distinguishable.

>the reading i have done indicates that only
>cloaks were completely undyed...

Hmmm, this seems a little bit general.  Of the eleven different textiles
definitely made of wool (as opposed to the vegetable fiber textiles, the
wool-brocaded linens or the indeterminate) found in the main Sutton Hoo grave
(early- to mid-seventh century), only four of them tested positive for
dyestuffs.  (One of these textiles was a tufted pile weave thought to have been
a cloak, dyed yellow with weld.)  One tested positive for naturally pigmented
wool.  The other six did not reveal any dyestuffs.  None of the linen textiles
tested positive for dyestuffs.  Of course, some dyes may have been fugitive. 
Still, I think it possible that linen undertunics may have been undyed, or that
cloaks may have been dyed.  (The source for this is Elisabeth Crowfoot's "The
Textiles," in vol. 3, part I, of THE SUTTON HOO SHIP-BURIAL (London:  British
Museum Publications Ltd., 1983).  This volume is ed. Angela Care Evans, but the
entire set is ed. Rupert Bruce-Mitford.)
******************************************************************************
Carolyn Priest-Dorman                   Thora Sharptooth
Poughkeepsie, NY                        Frosted Hills
priest at vassar.edu                       East Kingdom
******************************************************************************

From: haslock at rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: biblio, sails, shoes, & lead
Date: 14 Jul 1993 16:00:15 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering

Greetings from Fiacha,

Ranvaig, your apologise is as gracious as it is unnecessary. I delight in
opportunities to discuss both fabrics and tents and I have always learned
something from such discussions.

As I indicated ealier, there is a lot that I do not know about Viking sails.

However, there is a difference between wet and saturated. A heavy dew will wet
a piece of fabric but not saturate it. There is also the detail that a
competant sailor will know the limitations of his craft. If the weather gets
bad enough to threaten the integrity of his sail, a modern sailor will either
reef or replace the sail, if not sail under bare poles. I assume that Viking
sailors were smart enough to do this.

The weight of a wet linen sail is not at issue since linen is stronger wet than
dry. One of the books on fibers that I read claimed that only silk has a
higher tensile strength than linen (modern fibers excluded). Thus if a linen
sail is going to fall apart, so is a woolen one. 

The issue of wool as a luxury fabric is something I need to explain in more
detail. Wool has always been used to make luxury fabrics (but this does not
mean that all luxury fabrics have been made from wool). Thus there is the
economic issue of utility fabrics. With a limited amount of raw wool, one can
make a luxury fabric (if one knows how), make a utility fabric or sell the wool
and buy the needed fabric with the proceeds.

By the end of the twelfth century, the flemish weavers were the masters of
weaving in the Northwest corner of Europe. At that time it is possible that
the economics of fabric altered to the point where it made sense for England to
sell the majority of its wool production and buy woven stuff from the flemish
weavers. Certainly England's national economy gradually became dependant on 
or fueled by wool exports. The low countries grew flax and produced fine linen
but did not support sheep.

As for linen for tents, I am not sure where, other than tent suppliers, to look
for it. Ask for linen canvas and you will find some. For woolen tenting you
would need to find coat weight worsted twill. Woolen blanketing is the wrong
class of wool for the job. That is, I do not know of commercially available
woolen fabrics that compare with canvas (canvas being traditionally linen).

The point of using worsted twill is that worsted wool is that the worsted is
spun to minimise space between the fibers and so is both harder wearing and
less likely to absorb water. The twill weave is traditional for sails because
it packs the threads closer together and so is more successful at holding the 
wind. Thora Sharptooth has sent me a description of a find of what is presumed
to be a woolen sail. The brief description is a close match for coat weight
worsted twill (although the distinction between worsted and woolen spun
yarn was not being made at that time).

The point is that I have seen canvas suitable for tents but I have not seen
woolens suitable for tents. When making tents I prefer to use polycotton
because of the price and the colors. I do not know of a source for cheap
linen canvas!

	Fiacha
	AnTir

From: palmer at cis.ohio-state.edu (sharon ann palmer)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: biblio, sails, shoes, & lead
Date: 16 Jul 1993 04:26:07 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science

In article <221aif$mb9 at usenet.pa.dec.com> haslock at rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock) writes:

>higher tensile strength than linen (modern fibers excluded). Thus if a linen
>sail is going to fall apart, so is a woolen one. 

I did not mean to suggest that either would fall apart.  The reverse rather.

>Wool has always been used to make luxury fabrics 
>With a limited amount of raw wool, one can
>make a luxury fabric (if one knows how), make a utility fabric or sell the wool

Sorry no, you wouldnt take the same fleece and choose to make either
luxury or utility fabrics.  For a luxury fabric, you need a very
fine thread, which means it must be spun from a very fine fiber.
Today luxury fabrics are made from merino, cashmere, quivit, etc.
Wool is graded into super-fine, fine, medium and coarse.  The thicker
fibers tend to be longer as well.  (I still dont know too much 
about period breed names).
From the excavation of York, the coarser fabrics tended to be made
from poorly spun, thicker thread, and the poorer spinners were given 
the poorer fleece to spin.  I havent seen the documentation for
the sail, but I would expect carefully choosen fleece, expert spinning,
and expert weaving.  The Viking era fabrics I have looked at were
singles (not plied), but with the spinning wheel, plying would
be easier and would make a stronger thread, but I have no idea if
this was really done.

>By the end of the twelfth century, the flemish weavers were the masters of
>weaving in the Northwest corner of Europe. At that time it is possible that
>the economics of fabric altered to the point where it made sense for England to
>sell the majority of its wool production and buy woven stuff from the flemish
>weavers. Certainly England's national economy gradually became dependant on 
>or fueled by wool exports. 

I shouldnt try to answer this without looking it up, but I believe that
England had always (since Roman times at least) exported raw wool, but 
begining around this time, began to weave it themselves and export
the fabric also.  I am not sure of the date though.

>woolen fabrics that compare with canvas (canvas being traditionally linen).

I believe that canvas is the technical term for a type of weave.  I have
seen modern fabric labeled wool canvas, but it is not what you would be 
looking for.  I just looked it up and this is not what the dictionary
says, but it is how modern weavers use the word.

>The point of using worsted twill is that worsted wool is that the worsted is
>spun to minimise space between the fibers and so is both harder wearing and

It also makes the fibers straighter within the thread, rather than
spiralling, making the thread stronger.

>Thora Sharptooth has sent me a description of a find of what is presumed
>to be a woolen sail. The brief description is a close match for coat weight
>worsted twill 

I suspect the fibers in the sail will be thicker and longer than the
coat weight twill, even if the weave looks the same.  Softness and 
suppleness are more desirable for a coat than a sail.  Mistress Thora,
does your source include this information?

>(although the distinction between worsted and woolen spun
>yarn was not being made at that time).

Basically worsted means that the fleece was combed, and woolen that it
was carded.  Combing is earlier, carding is period, but I believe after
the period you are considering.  There are differences in the way they
are spun.  Worsted is a smooth thread and woolen is a fluffy yarn.  
The words may not have been used in period.  I cant find a source, 
but I believe woolen yarns were used for fabrics intended to be fulled.

Ranvaig                 
Sharon Palmer            palmer at cis.ohio-state.edu
(Who is trying to spin fine enough to weave vadmal on a warp-weighted loom,
when she isnt trying to card-weave, or trying to make lace, or trying
to raise two children.  But what I mostly do is read.)

From: priest at vaxsar.vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Tent Fabric
Date: 14 Jul 93 09:04:23 +1000
Organization: Vikings R Us

Unto the Fishyfolk of the Rialto, greeting from Thora Sharptooth!

Dave.Aronson at f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
> SH> I know that in the pioneering era of the US, it was fairly common to
> SH> mingle [linen and wool] to produce a compromise between the costs and
> SH> attributes of each. It was called "linsey-woolsey" and 
> SH> the idea supposedly 
> SH> was brought over from the British Isles. Does anyone know how old this
> SH> practice is, and if it was ever done in period?
>
>It is forbidden in Orthodox Judaism, but I do not know if that is a recent
>development via extrapolative interpretation, or if it is of older origin, in
>which case it would probably be older than period.
>
>Yaakov?

I'm not Yaakov, but I'll have to do for now.  (I think he's somewhere between
Carolingia and Storvik, relocating, right now.)

This practice is called "sha'atnez," and is Biblically forbidden.  It says in
Deuteronomy 22:11 (Masoretic translation):  "Thou shalt not wear a mingled
stuff, wool and linen together."  This is one of the most fascinating
textile-related things in the Bible to me. ;>  Over the years several different
male commentators who did not know from spinning and weaving have tried to
explain this stricture in various ways.  My personal favorite is Rashi, whose
works demonstrate that he had a passing familiarity with the technology of
weaving and spinning (perhaps because he had several daughters and no sons): 
his works are the first written source in Europe to mention the influx of the
horizontal treadle loom, sometime in the eleventh century in Troyes, France. 

Anyway, Rashi's gloss of this commandment says:  "A mingled stuff denotes a
mixture.  And our Rabbis have explained it:  Fulled (shin-nun-ayin), spun
(mem-vav-vav-yod), and woven (nun-vav-zayin)."  In other words, you should not
mingle wool and flax fibers together and then spin them and make cloth from it. 
Since Thora is tenth-century and has figured out that a mingled stuff dyes
streakily and unpleasantly, this is pretty much the sense in which she
understands this commandment--to the extent that she has considered it, that
is!

One demonstrably period practice was to weave wool on a warp of linen.  The
fragments of this sort of cloth found in London and dating to the late 14th
century are thought to have been used as rugs, hangings, or bedcoverings. 
(Three such remnants are described in the Museum of London's TEXTILES AND
CLOTHING.)  Also from the London excavation are several velvet fragments where
the silk warp pile is crossed by linen or hemp weft, also late 14th century in
origin.  A related earlier practice from farther east was to weave silk weft on
a vegetable warp; a Frankish woman's grave from the seventh century
(erroneously said to be Arnegunde) had two such silk blend fabrics in it, one
mingled with cotton--no doubt cheap Byzantine exports for the barbarian West.
;>
****************************************************************************
Carolyn Priest-Dorman			Thora Sharptooth
Poughkeepsie, NY			Frosted Hills ("where's that?")
priest at vassar.edu			East Kingdom
              Gules, three square weaver's tablets in bend Or
****************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: dwbutler at mtu.edu (DANIEL WALTER BUTLER-EHLE)
Subject: Re: Tent Fabric
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1993 08:23:12 GMT

Carolyn Priest-Dorman (priest at vaxsar.vassar.edu) wrote:
: Unto the Fishyfolk of the Rialto, greeting from Thora Sharptooth!

: Dave.Aronson at f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
: > SH> attributes of each. It was called "linsey-woolsey" and 
: > SH> the idea supposedly 
: > SH> was brought over from the British Isles. Does anyone know how old this
: > SH> practice is, and if it was ever done in period?
: >It is forbidden in Orthodox Judaism, but I do not know if that is a recent
: >development via extrapolative interpretation, or if it is of older origin, in
: >which case it would probably be older than period.

: male commentators who did not know from spinning and weaving have tried to
: works demonstrate that he had a passing familiarity with the technology of
....random deletions......
: Since Thora is tenth-century and has figured out that a mingled stuff dyes
: streakily and unpleasantly, this is pretty much the sense in which she
: understands this commandment--to the extent that she has considered it, that
: is!

When I was a young lad (that's not to say that I'm no longer male, but no
longer young), the wise and ancient ones (who, I later discovered, were 
often wrong) told me that the reason for this commandment was because
such a fabric was hard to wash (vegetable fiber cloth hangs to dry;
wool must dry flat) and it wouldn't wear well (the fibers deteriorate at 
different rates depending on the environment).

And speaking of vegetable fiber cloth, until recently ropes and sails had
been made of hemp fiber (like, for hundreds and hundreds of years).  One
can make a pretty lightweight, but strong cloth from hemp.  I'd find it
hard to believe that period tent canvas wasn't usually hemp.  The word
"canvas" derives from "cannabis" (and if you read alt.hemp, you'll find a
dozen people constantly pointing this out).  Maybe someday I'll get up the
ambition to built a new loom, find a sizable patch of wild hemp (like six
acres), and make cloth for a new pavilion.  But my research hasn't turned 
up enough good documentation on how to do it yet.

--Ulfin of Wyrmgeard   <dwbutler at mtu.edu> or <ulfin at mathlab.mtu.edu>

From: priest at vaxsar.vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Tent Fabric
Date: 19 Jul 93 10:31:50 +1000
Organization: Vikings R Us

Unto the Fishyfolk of the Rialto, greeting from Thora Sharptooth!

About the Biblical prohibition against mixed textiles of linen and wool, Ulfin
of Wyrmgeard <dwbutler at mtu.edu> writes:

>When I was a young lad (that's not to say that I'm no longer male, but no
>longer young), the wise and ancient ones (who, I later discovered, were 
>often wrong) told me that the reason for this commandment was because
>such a fabric was hard to wash (vegetable fiber cloth hangs to dry;
>wool must dry flat) and it wouldn't wear well (the fibers deteriorate at 
>different rates depending on the environment).

I'm sure there are as many different rationalizations as there are
commentators. ;>  I do have to wonder, though, how often the wool garments of a
desert nomadic society would have been washed.  (Your Grace, you wouldn't
happen to have any information on that topic, would you?)  Certainly the
deterioration argument makes some sense, though.  

>And speaking of vegetable fiber cloth, until recently ropes and sails had
>been made of hemp fiber (like, for hundreds and hundreds of years).  

Perhaps you missed the elaborate discussion of the Viking Age wool twill sails
in another thread.  It is clear that Viking longships, at least, had sails made
of wool.  On those ships ropes were made not only of hemp but also of skin,
depending on the uses to which they were to be put.

>Maybe someday I'll get up the
>ambition to built a new loom, find a sizable patch of wild hemp (like six
>acres), and make cloth for a new pavilion.  But my research hasn't turned 
>up enough good documentation on how to do it yet.

Good luck not getting arrested!
******************************************************************************
Carolyn Priest-Dorman			Thora Sharptooth
Poughkeepsie, NY			Frosted Hills ("where's that?")
priest at vassar.edu			East Kingdom
              Gules, three square weaver's tablets in bend Or
******************************************************************************

From: haslock at rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Tent Fabric or Viking Sails
Date: 20 Jul 1993 01:24:00 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering

Greetings from Fiacha,

The deal with tent fabric is that we have a 12th century source declaring
a switch to linen. The relevant questions were why and what was it a switch
from?

Viking woolen sails were offered as a choice to switch from and the
interesting and informative commentary suggests that the norse were making a
strong, fine, weatherproof material from wool. Such a material would be a
good candidate for tenting, especially when one considers that the 'viking
ship shelter' redutedly used the ships sail as a roof.

Thora's description of combing wool to separate the long straight hairs from
the short fuzzy stuff is clear but did not specify if the long hairs were used
or if the short fuzzy stuff was used (or if both were used for different
purposes). I am assuming that the long straight hairs were used for the
sail cloth. Being a misable spinner, I don't have a good feel for the right
answers in this area.

I doubt that the Vikings used significant quantities of hemp due to the
Scandinavian climate. That is, if flax is difficult to grow there, hemp is
next to impossible. Other folk have claimed to me that the vikings used card
woven bands for their rigging, presumably in wool.

I will admit that my original distrust of wool for sails was based on
descriptions of the results of saturating thick felt. I had not thought
deeply enough about cloth made from tightly spun wool.

It is important to realize the thickness of the fabric described in Thora's
posting. Threads woven at between 9 and 15 threads per centimeter are fine;
being a thirtyth on an inch across, if not finer. The resulting fabric will
be about twice as thick. I would guess that denim jeans are about the same
thickness of material. Notice that commercial canvas tents (Grimms and the
various army GP tents) are made from a thicker material. I believe that
modern sailors use heavier and stronger fabric for their mailsails.

The use of hemp now becomes interesting. I do not know enough about the fiber
to add to the discussion. I would like to see the OED citations for both
canvas and hemp but I will not have time to look them up for a few weeks.

I still suspect economics as the basis for the switch to linen tents though.

	Fiacha
	AnTir
	Haslock at zso.dec.com

From: priest at vaxsar.vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re:  Shoes, Wool
Date: 16 Jul 93 21:39:41 +1000
Organization: Vikings R Us

Unto the Fishyfolk of the Rialto, greeting from Thora Sharptooth!

Renee "Are-You-Amish?-Is-That-A-REAL-Fire?-Aren't-You-Hot-In-That?" Raduechel
(wow, it sounds like you have a great job!) writes:

>in your discussions of wool, sails, etc., has anyone
>mentioned the natural waterproofing that lanolin provides?  At our 1865
>Norwegian farm we discuss wool processing in the nineteenth century, including
>the fact that if you made garments from wool with the lanolin left in, it
>provided some protection from the elements.  Such a garment would be good for
>a fisherman, for example.  (We never leave the lanolin in, since doing so would
>mean leaving all the manure, etc., in the wool, too.)  Could lanolin be an
>additional factor in the choice of wool over another fabric?

Yes, if the wool had been left undyed.  However, both the Gokstad and Oseberg
fabrics had been dyed red (and are still discernibly red).  The probable dye
bath would have been madder root (by far the most common Viking Age red agent),
which would not color an unwashed wool, or, at least, would strip away the
lanolin if one tried to dye unwashed wool.  Those red sails would not,
therefore, have had the benefit of natural waterproofing.
*****************************************************************************
Carolyn Priest-Dorman			Thora "Are-you-Pilgrims?" Sharptooth
Poughkeepsie, NY			Frosted Hills ("is that near Valcor?")
priest at vassar.edu			East Kingdom
              Gules, three square weaver's tablets in bend Or
*****************************************************************************

From: priest at vaxsar.vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: biblio, sails, shoes, & lead
Date: 16 Jul 93 11:03:04 +1000
Organization: Vikings R Us

Unto the Fishyfolk of the Rialto, especially Ranvaig and Fiacha, greeting from
Thora Sharptooth!

This thread seems to have devolved into "techniques of early period
sailmaking," if I've got it right.

In response to Fiacha, Ranvaig wrote:

>For a luxury fabric, you need a very
>fine thread, which means it must be spun from a very fine fiber.

Penelope Walton says of the Coppergate textiles that the wool chosen for fine
yarns ("a smooth, glossy appearance, with fibres lying exactly parallel to each
other") is "predominantly coarse and is likely to come from a fleece with a
long staple and little crimp."  Most of the wools represented at Jorvik are
from one or another type of medium fleece.  More than the fiber, the technique
is what assures a luxury fabric:  in the Viking Age, combed wools were a luxury
fabric.

>The Viking era fabrics I have looked at were
>singles (not plied), but with the spinning wheel, plying would
>be easier and would make a stronger thread, but I have no idea if
>this was really done.

No, what you have noticed is pretty much the way it was:  the Vikings wove with
singles, except when tablet-weaving.  (The spinning wheel was not known in
Europe until well after the date of the Oseberg and Gokstad ships.)

>>Thora Sharptooth has sent me a description of a find of what is presumed
>>to be a woolen sail. The brief description is a close match for coat weight
>>worsted twill 
>>I suspect the fibers in the sail will be thicker and longer than the
>coat weight twill, even if the weave looks the same.  Softness and 
>suppleness are more desirable for a coat than a sail.  Mistress Thora,
>does your source include this information?

The source I have for this is Anne Stine Ingstad, "Textiles from Oseberg,
Gokstad and Kaupang," in ARCHAEOLOGICAL TEXTILES:  REPORT FROM THE 2ND NESAT
SYMPOSIUM 1.-4.V.1984, which is #2 in the ARKAEOLOGISKE SKRIFTER series
(Kobenhavn:  Arkaeologisk Institut, Kobenhavns Universitet, 1988).  About the
fragments judged to be from the sail, she says on pages 135-136:  "The Gokstad
find also included fragments of 2/2 twill, 63 of them.  They all have Z-spun
threads in both systems, and the threads are somewhat more firmly spun and a
little thinner in one system than in the other...."  Unfortunately, she does
not give a thread count.  Does anyone out there have a thread count for these
sails?

For comparison purposes, here's a reference from Ingstad's "The Functional
Textiles from the Oseberg Ship," in TEXTILSYMPOSIUM NEUMUENSTER: 
ARCHAEOLOGISCHE TEXTILFUNDE 6.5-8.5.1981 (Neumuenster:  Textilmuseum
Neumuenster, 1982), pages 87-88:  "Let me now consider a group which apparently
represents the sails of the ship....  The closer system of threads has a count
of 12-16 per cm, the more open a count of about 9-13.  The wool of which these
fabrics are woven is fine and it looks as though the threads of the two systems
were of about the same thickness, and they were both Z spun, particularly
firmly."  Context in the article suggests that she is discussing a plain 2/2
twill.

My soon-to-be apprentice Nicolette Bonhomme has just finished weaving a lozenge
twill wool that is almost the same fineness as the Oseberg sail fabric.  It is
quite fine and supple.

>Basically worsted means that the fleece was combed, and woolen that it
>was carded.  Combing is earlier, carding is period, but I believe after
>the period you are considering.  

Right.  However, some of the Coppergate yarns, according to Walton, were spun
without having been combed first.  She speculates that very good spinners could
work directly from the fluffed-up staple.  These yarns look more "woolen" than
the obviously combed fabrics--fluffier and softer.

>The words may not have been used in period.  

Not until the early fourteenth century in England, according to Walton.  I
don't know about instances of this differentiation in languages other than
English.

>I believe woolen yarns were used for fabrics intended to be fulled.

Right again.

>Ranvaig                 
>Sharon Palmer            palmer at cis.ohio-state.edu
>(Who is trying to spin fine enough to weave vadmal on a warp-weighted loom,

Use as light a spindle as you can find; it helps enormously!
****************************************************************************
Carolyn Priest-Dorman			Thora Sharptooth
Poughkeepsie, NY			Frosted Hills ("where's that?")
priest at vassar.edu			East Kingdom
              Gules, three square weaver's tablets in bend Or
****************************************************************************

From: palmer at cis.ohio-state.edu (sharon ann palmer)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: biblio, sails, shoes, & lead
Date: 17 Jul 1993 00:10:01 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science

Greetings to all from Ranvaig and especially to Thora Sharptooth

In article <1993Jul16.110304.751 at vaxsar.vassar.edu> priest at vaxsar.vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman) writes:

>This thread seems to have devolved into "techniques of early period
>sailmaking," if I've got it right.

Fiancha is *trying* to discuss 12th century, but I guess I keep bringing
it back, because I am trying to study early period and am more familiar
with those sources.

>other") is "predominantly coarse and is likely to come from a fleece with a
>long staple and little crimp."  Most of the wools represented at Jorvik are
>from one or another type of medium fleece.  More than the fiber, the technique

I read something about the Jorvik finds that said the poorest fabrics
were made with inferior wool, but I've loaned by copy just now.  I dont
remember the exact wording, perhaps it meant the texture, rather than
the fineness.

The threads I have seen dont have much twist, that would make sense for 
long staple wool.

I understand the at least some of the Viking's sheep were double-coated.
Thora, do you know of evidence that they separated the fibers?
That issue is what really started this thread.

>singles, except when tablet-weaving.  (The spinning wheel was not known in
>Europe until well after the date of the Oseberg and Gokstad ships.)

Fiancha was making the point that the spinning wheel might have made
linen more economical that during pevious times.

Thank you for the sources.

>>Basically worsted means that the fleece was combed, and woolen that it
>>was carded.  Combing is earlier, carding is period, but I believe after
>>the period you are considering.  

Again Fiancha was looking at the 12th century.

>Use as light a spindle as you can find; it helps enormously!

I have been using a supported spindle, but I dont know of the Vikings 
using them.  I *own* some small clay spindle weights, but put them away
in a safe place and haven't seen it since. :-(
     
Renee Raduechel writes:

>On another subject:  in your discussions of wool, sails, etc., has anyone
>mentioned the natural waterproofing that lanolin provides?  

A very good point, but I will be surprized if there is any evidence.
It is possible to wash, or at least rinse out the wool and leave the
lanolin.

Ranvaig
Sharon Palmer    palmer at cis.ohio-state.edu

From: priest at vaxsar.vassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: biblio, sails, shoes, & lead
Date: 19 Jul 93 10:32:37 +1000
Organization: Vikings R Us

Unto the Fishyfolk of the Rialto, greeting from Thora Sharptooth!

Ranvaig writes:

>I understand the at least some of the Viking's sheep were double-coated.
>Thora, do you know of evidence that they separated the fibers?
>That issue is what really started this thread.

Well, all the (mundane) specialists in early textiles in northern Europe are
agreed on the subject, so that's a good clue.  Hald, for example, says "Combing
is another method of disentangling wwool fibre, but it separates the longer
fibres from the short staple which is combed away; thus a fine, firm and smooth
yarn is spun from combed wool." (ANCIENT DANISH TEXTILES FROM BOGS & BURIALS,
p. 132)  But for hands-on graphic evidence I have Ilaine de Cameron to thank. 
She showed me untreated wool from a double-coated modern sheep (a throwback
breed) and a pair of vicious looking woolcombs.  We know the Vikings had and
used both:  woolcombs and double-coated sheep.  Then she demonstrated what
happens when you comb the wool the way the sources agree that the Vikings did: 
the long kemp comes away all nice and straight, leaving behind the the softer,
shorter, shinier stuff that all clings together.  (Ilaine, if you're out there,
jump in any time!)
*****************************************************************************
Carolyn Priest-Dorman			Thora Sharptooth
Poughkeepsie, NY			Frosted Hills ("Oh, Frosted FLAKES!")
priest at vassar.edu			East Kingdom
              Gules, three square weaver's tablets in bend Or
*****************************************************************************

From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Tent Fabric
Date: 20 Jul 93 11:30:10
Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.

I have not seen the original accounts of Edward 2nds tents, but from
the talk given to the medieval dress and textile society last march it
looks as though they used linen and "carde". The "carde" was
apparently a wool linen mix which was sandwiched in between layers of
linen on some tents. There was no mention of the origin of the linen
cloth, in the abscence of evidence I could not say for sure whether
the linen was derived from flax, hemp or even nettles. I have heard
cloth made from all three described as linen.
Jennifer
Vanaheim Vikings

From: jab2 at stl.stc.co.uk (Jennifer Ann Bray)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: poor people wear wool?
Date: 20 Jul 93 12:11:36
Organization: STC Technology Ltd., London Road, Harlow, UK.

Ranvaig writes
"At least in my time (9th cent Danish) wealthy people wear linen or
silk and poor people wear wool."

I have doubts about this. Wool is warm, linen is not. Wool takes a
greater range of natural dyes than linen. The rich grave find at
Mammen in Denmark (admittedly later than 9th century) had woolen
textiles. Royal burials in other areas of scandinavia included many
woolen textiles, (e.g. Osebjerg, Egtved, Birka) Scandinavian settlements
yielded fine woolen cloth presumably belonging to rich people, (e.g.
York, & Dublin) Denmark has a history of producing woolen cloth in
types ranging from coarse to very fine which stretches back to the
Bronze age (see M. Hald's book on textiles from danish bog finds &
burials)
I can accept that silk was restricted to the rich. As it had to be
imported presumably it was more expensive than native produce.
I can also see that linen comes from flax which needs more tending
than sheep and needs better soil to thrive, so I could believe that
linen could be more expensive than woolen cloths. But I find it hard
to believe that the rich would not have worn wool.
Did I misinterpret your statement? did you mean only the rich wear
linen and silk, the poor only wear wool?
Jennifer
Vanaheim Vikings 

From: grm+ at andrew.cmu.edu (Gretchen Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: poor people wear wool?
Date: 20 Jul 93 22:27:29 GMT
Organization: Computer Operations, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Ignoring the "in my period" part of the statement, there may be some
truth in the "rich people wear linen, poor people wear wool".  The
problem is there's probably something left out.  For example, in late
period on the Scottish borders, poor people wore (in fact were often
given) garments of UNDYED wool. So maybe the statement would be more
accurately put "Rich people wore dyed fabrics including wool, linen and
silk, while poor people wore what was cheapest and most readily
available: undyed wool."

toodles, margaret

From: jliedl at nickel.laurentian.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: taffeta
Date: 22 Oct 93 13:11:16 -0500
Organization: Laurentian University

Good day to all from Ancarett Nankivellis.  Recently did Emer write:

In article <Pine.3.07.9310220704.B2257-b100000 at sun.cis.smu.edu>, jkubenka at sun.cis.smu.EDU (Jennifer Kubenka) writes:
> Greetings, good folk of the Rialto:
> 
> 	This is a simple question in need a simple answer.  I was given a
> I would wish to know if taffetta is an acceptable fabric to use
> in the creation of Italian Ren. garb.
> garb. 

While I did respond to her request privately I thought a brief note on 
the Rialto might be of general interest.  Jacqueline Herald's _Renaissance 
Dress in Italy, 1400-1500_ glosses taffeta as:  "A plain woven silk, 
used for lining sleeves, and for modest silk dresses."[228]  Henry VIII, 
according to Stow's _Chronicle_, favoured hose made out of "ell broad 
taffeta" fabric.  Not as luxurious as brocade or damask, it was, 
nonetheless, period.

Ancarett Nankivellis
Janice Liedl
Laurentian University, Canada
JLIEDL at NICKEL.LAURENTIAN.CA

From: AGrunow at vitgwms1.telecom.telecom012.telememo.AU (Grunow, Aroleon)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Taffeta
Date: 26 Oct 1993 20:46:07 -0400
Organization: The Internet

This message is posted on behalf of my lady:

> By the way; are we sure that the term "taffeta" refers to the same 
material
> in period times as in modern times?

I read an SCA costuming guide, which is currently out on loan, so I 
unfortunately can't quote it directly, that the fabric which we moderns call 
"taffeta" is quite unlike the fabric called "taffeta" in period. I remember 
that period taffeta was described as a heavy draping high-quality material.

Unfortunately I do not know if any of the period materials had the texture 
of drape (etc) of modern taffeta. Perhaps your local costuming laurel could 
point you to some references?

Baroness Ingibjorg Ambasdottir (Jocelyn Grunow)

And I found this purely by chance while reading on the tram on the way to 
work this morning:

In Complete Anachronist #64, "Scandinavian Textiles":
"Weavers consider taffeta a plain weave variation that is ribbed. The ribs 
are created by grouping a number of threads together before they are crossed 
by the threds from the opposite direction. The thread counts are therefore 
always unequal. Ribs can also be created with threads of heavy weight 
crossed by threads of lighter weight, but taffeta is not made this way. The 
crisp, silk fabric currently being sold under the name taffeta is made with 
an equal thread count. Only the fact that it is more firmly woven 
differentiates it from silk broadcloth. It is one of several cases where the 
retail name does not correspond to the more spcific weavers' definition. 
"File" is the modern name of a fabric with a more pronounced rib than that 
of traditional taffeta...To order a modern silk that looks like what the 
archaeologists refer to as "resembling taffeta" you must specify that you 
want a crisp silk with a "file"."

 ----------Sven the Stormdriven (Aroleon Grunow)---------
Baron of Stormhold (Melbourne, Australia)
in the Kingdom of the West
     AGrunow at VITGWMS1.TELECOM.telecom012.telememo.au
 --------------------------------------------------------

From: haslock at rust.zso.dec.com (Nigel Haslock)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cloth
Date: 3 Nov 1993 00:31:54 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering

Greetings from Fiacha,

The cloth produced by the Anglo Saxons and the Normans was either wool or
linen. Cotton was unknown but fine silks did make their way to these parts
from Byzantium. I will ignore the coarse fabrics of hemp and the ocasional
use of other, more unusual fibers.

There is little difference between linens then and now. Unfortunately, linen
is not generally available and is considered to be expensive (all modern
fabrics are cheap by period standards, even silk). Light weight polycotton is
the common alternative to linen but muslin may be closer in terms of drape
and tendency to wrinkle. Linen is difficult to dye so bleached and unbleached
muslins have some assurance of looking reasonable. However, it is possible to
dye linen and it is also possible to weave linen with a high luster. Judicious
use of brightly coloured shiny fabric is not unreasonable.

On the other hand, there is a lot of difference between woolens then and now.
The closest equivalent to period woolens are the worsted wool suit fabrics.
Slightly heavier wool was felted and napped and generally abused to produce a
texture that might be mistaken for either doe suede or a very short pile
velvet. Wool dyes easily so multicoloured fabrics were usually woolens.
Anyway, the common aversion to wool next to the skin may an aversion to the
fabric rather than the raw material. 

Cloaks we have been discussing, although it was my impression that the Irish
technique for producing curls of surface wool was a treatment for the inside
rather than the outside of the cloak and that the coils were formed by raising
 the nap rather than by weaving tufts of wool into the fabric.

Everything I have read suggests that the most common fabrics were plain weave
but that the prized and expensive fabrics had complex weave textures (birds
eye twill, herringbone, etc).

On a practical note, making a tunic and braies from cotton or polycotton
will keep you adequately protected from the elements during the summer and 
will serve while indoors at any time of year. Add a cloak to protect you 
from the cold. Line in with a tightly woven fine fabric to check the wind.
Add wool or fur leggings to protect the shins and make a pair of shoes.
The cloak will be invaluable on clear summer nights too. Make it large enough
to share with a friend.

I hope this helps and I hope that any bad advice here will be quickly corrected
by folk who know more than I.

	Fiacha
	AnTir				haslock at zso.dec.com

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bcfrench at mothra.syr.edu (Barbara C. French)
Subject: Cloth
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 93 15:50:05 EST

Also, consider linen blends. All the look of linen and none of the fuss.
Also cuts down *dramatically* on the price. A lot of my garb is made of a
rayon/linen blend that has nice drape and looks like linen.

Wool is nice, but remember these words: dry-clean only. You can handwash
wool too, but it's hard to get really bad stains out this way. I have a
silk/wool cloak that's very nice, but a pain if it gets dirty. I like the
freedom to pitch my garb in a washing machine -- particularly nice during
Pennsic. Some dry-clean-only court garb is fine, but personally I can't
afford all those dry-cleaning bills!

You can get a lot of different kinds of fabrics that has all the look of
period cloth without the cost or fuss. Of course, if you're really
interested in being as period as possible, you'll probably have to stick
to linen or wool.

...Cait

Caitrin Gordon, Delftwood, Aethelmark, East Kingdom

From: lecuyer at wam.umd.edu (CLIS library)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cloth
Date: 5 Nov 1993 20:59:16 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <60.38866.4226.0N189112 at canrem.com>,
Michael Stasica <michael.stasica at canrem.com> wrote:
>
>I have been able to learn the various cuts and styles of the period but,
>obviously, my research has not provided me with any idea of what material 
>to assemble my first T-tunic and Braies from, let alone my undergarmets 
>from.  Although I do not have an allergic reaction to wools, I prefer to not 
>wear them directly next to the skin.  With this in mind I ask for suggestions 
>of materials and colours, that are available from our modern fabric stores, 
>that will be functional and period.

Most everyone has addressed the type of material you need.
I will attempt to address the color. Always a tricky subject
this, because of the vast and sometimes contradictory 
documentation on what kind of dyes were/were not available
in the time period you are looking for.

Safe bets: greys, browns, yellows (except for neon yellow), and
that off-white/beige/creme color most folks call "natural".
Greens are ok as long as they are too brillent or getting close
to "teal" (a very popular color in the stores right now). 
Same with blues and red. Tea-dyeing or walnut shell dyeing
will tone down too-bright colors very well.

Debatable colors: Purple and black. I've heard these are hard to 
get with natural dyes or are very expensive.

For ideas about colors available and color combinations look 
at manuscripts. Look around at the local libraries and see
if any of them have the big repro book of the Bayeux Tapestry
that came out a couple of years ago. This can give you some
excellent ideas - not only about clothes, but material culture
as well. 

Good luck!
Cathy/Kara

From: lecuyer at wam.umd.edu (CLIS library)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cloth
Date: 5 Nov 1993 21:03:50 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1993Nov3.155005.18766 at newstand.syr.edu>,
Barbara C. French <bcfrench at mothra.syr.edu> wrote:
>
>Wool is nice, but remember these words: dry-clean only. You can handwash

Wool garments may be washed in a machine on cold as long as 
you have washed the fabric before you made the garment (this
will cause shrinkage). 100% wool probably should be air dried,
but wool blends (which is mostly what is available anyway) can
be tumbled dry on gentle.

>wool too, but it's hard to get really bad stains out this way. I have a

Of course, stains *are* period. ;-)

Cathy/Kara

From: odlin at reed.edu (Iain Odlin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Cloth
Date: 8 Nov 1993 02:54:45 GMT
Organization: The Stuffed Animal Trauma Team  (We're Trained Professionals)

  As a small follow-up to the colours of cloth article:  From the book  
  "Historical Costumes of England" by N. Bradfield (Good source?  Bad?  You
  make the call...), page 20: "Colours [during the reign of William I,
  1066-1100] -- Light blue, red, and greens were fashionable;  black, yellow,
  reddy browns, and grey were also worn."

  -Iain
 ------------------------- Iain Odlin, odlin at reed.edu -------------------------
                  10 Crosby Street, Level 3, Portland ME 04103

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: chamois and sarcenet
From: una at bregeuf.stonemarche.org (Honur Horne-Jaruk)
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 94 08:13:42 EST
Organization: got any to spare?

Greetings to Carol, and anybody else who wondered, from Honour Horne-Jaruk/
Alizaunde: 
	The disadvantage of putting your computer next to your costume library
is that you find yourself doing stuff like this...
SARCENET. A thin soft silk textile having a slight sheen on the surface; of
taffeta weave, variously colored; sometimes `shot '.-- From `A dictionary of
English Costume ' by Cunnington, Cunnington and Beard. A&C Black,ltd.,
Publishers ISBN 0-7136-0370-4
	Chamois in period was leather from the Chamois goat, oil tanned, if
I remember correctly. What you have is almost certainly Chamois Flannel,
an extremely heavy cotton flannel napped to resemble Chamois. Cotton being
not native to 14th cent. ireland, it would HAVE to be imported. I can find
nothing, however, on cotton flannel that early; flannels were originally
wool. If you are comitted to the highest possible level of authenticity, 
your chamois would make a marvellous lining- the stuff was developed
as a less scratchy version of wool flannel, after all... One important
Problem- Chamois, like the leather it's named after, soaks up water like 
a sponge. Used as an outer layer, you either have a dry-weather-only cloak,
or you have to have the fabric made water resistant before sewing. (Many
dry-cleaners do Scotchgaurd (TM)  treatments.) Unfortunately, the treatment
will alter the lovely nappy finish; how much depends on which one you use.
	As to your other question: I ALWAYS prewash EVERYTHING as soon as
I get it home. So very few fabrics are really non-shrink that I just can't 
afford to take chances. Chamois flannel is particularly bad in that respect;
turn your water heater way up and run it through twice. 
	Other than that, I can't help much; 14th C. ireland isn't my strong
suit. Good luck.
	With thanks for your attention, I remain, yours in service to the
Society- (Friend) Honour Horne-Jaruk, KSA as Alizaunde, Demoiselle de Bregeuf.  

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Cotton - the rich person
From: david.razler at compudata.com (David Razler)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 1994 00:43:00 -0500
Organization: Compu-Data BBS -=- Turnersville, NJ -=- 609-232-1245

William Thos. Powers wrote (in greatly edited form)

wt>However I believe good Guiliam is falling into a logical error;

wt>He wrote:
wt>   Well there were poor people and rich people in period. The nice thing
wt>   is when because of economic changes over the last 500 years it costs 
wt>   you less to look like a rich person then a poor person. I'm thinking
wt>   of fabric here. In period for my persona (England c1490) wool and
wt>   linen would have been the most common fabric being that they are both
wt>   produced localy. However today velvet can often be cheaper than wool 
wt>   or linen. Esp if you look around a bit.
wt>   Guiliam

wt>Can you actually find a wool or silk velvet cheaper than a plain weave w
wt>or linnen?  Don't *post* the source send it only to me by e-mail!  I
wt>believe what you are saying is that you can find velvet made of material
wt>used in period for cheaper prices. However if "fake" velvet is OK why no
wt>use fake linnen or fake wools and be more appropriate to your personna?
wt>Even a nylon velvet is usually 2-3 times as expensive as a "linnen look"
wt>cotton around here.  Are people less put upon when they work with modern
wt>upscale fabrics than with lessor stuff?  If this is encouraging folk to 
wt>toward using stuff that is not appropriate for them; maybe we ought to
wt>rethink our opinions!

wt>Authenticity can be inexpensive in money terms; the price is "eternal 
wt>vigilance".  I now have a 100% linnen tunic; (My wife tells me that if I
wt>it at the forge, she will re-create one of the bog finds with me).  The
wt>cloth was more expensive than the wool I buy by about 33%.  I paid US$1.
wt>a yard for it at an interior decorators yard sale; it's a nice heavy lin
wt>too!

   Basing my information initially on Barbara Tuchman's A Distant Mirror 
(which I have sitting here) and many readings and discussions of fiber 
history:

   Throughout all but the end of period:

1) Silk was THE most expensive fabric in most of Europe due to import costs, 
and the most durable.

2) COTTON was the second-most expensive, for the same reason and the labor 
needed to produce it (aside from those fabled mages of the east with cotton 
djins) [cough]

3) Linnen was THIRD and would only be used by a poorer person who couldn't 
aford cotton or was wearing something to work the fields.

4) Wool was dirt cheap, relatively speaking, because sheep (who, as the 
saying goes, ask so little and give so much) were kept evrywhere and 
spinning/weaving etc. was done locally.

At the end of period, late 16th and early 17th C's, Linnen became the fabric 
in vogue.

Also, of course, better-made fabric, embroidered stuff and genuine spun gold 
 integrated into the weave did increase price.
                                        Aleksandr the Traveller
                                        David M. Razler
                              aka [david.razler at compudata.com]

From: nusbache at epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Legends can get out of hand
Date: 28 Aug 1994 12:28:28 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto -- EPAS

In article <caradoc-2608941613290001 at tecate.libre.com>,
John Groseclose <caradoc at libre.com> wrote:

>Question: Was hemp cloth used anywhere of importance in period? I suppose
>I could research this m'self, but I though I'd ask.

The term "canvas" once meant hemp cloth -- "canvas" and "cannabis"
having been the same word.  I do not know when linen canvas became
available, nor where linen canvas was used in sailcloth.  In England
in the 16th century, however, sailcloth was generally made of hemp.

I don't know whether it still had the seeds in it.

Aryk Nusbacher

From: priest at vaxsar.vassar.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: A&S OOP? (embroidery)
Date: 22 May 95 07:56:18 +1000
Organization: Vassar College

Greeting from Thora Sharptooth!

In an attempt to define a series of embroidery stitches, Her Excellency Ianthe 
(Kim.Salazar at em.doe.GOV) wrote:

>      Double samite:  Samite was a heavy fabric, presumed to be silk.  Could 
>      double-samite refer to quilting together two thicknesses of samite, 
>      with trapunto style stuffing inserted in the pattern areas?  I know 
>      this style of quilting was practiced in period, but quilting is not my 
>      area of research.

Samite (Latin "samitum") is a compound twill weave developed by silkweavers in
the Eastern Mediterranean and points east during the centuries just after the
Roman period.  It was the luxury fabric of choice in Western Europe for several
hundred years, until the development of more intricate Spanish, Italian, and
Byzantine patterning methods supplanted it.  Large numbers of pieces of it
exist in Western European treasuries and museums.  Samite is highly patterned
and colored (except for the monochrome incised samites), with a twill texture,
and its exportation from Byzantium was carefully controlled.  

Although I suspect that the production of samite was curtailed or abandoned
after 1200, I am not sure, therefore I must guess.  My guess, based on what I
know of samite production in the years before 1200, is that it was probably not
used for quilting due to its intricate patterning (although it was sometimes
used as the groundwork for bead and pearl applique in what we would consider a
"Byzantine" style).  If I am wrong, and samites did continue to be produced
after 1200, then certainly the trapunto guess is plausible.

I wonder if "double samite" might refer to some sort of stitch work that had
the visual effect of a thick, lustrous twill weave--more of a textural
description than anything else.  Or perhaps it refers to a structural
similarity.  Samite was woven using more than one color of weft (lat) in a
particular order (passee) based on the needs of the pattern's color
arrangement.  Perhaps a technique is meant whereby two working threads interact
on the two sides of the ground weave by mirroring each other's movements and
sometimes changing sides?  (Is there such a technique known?  Remember, I'm
still guessing.)

I look forward to further clarifications; this is a fascinating question. 
References for samite available upon request.
*****************************************************************************
Carolyn Priest-Dorman			Thora Sharptooth
Poughkeepsie, NY			Frosted Hills ("where's that?")
priest at vassar.edu			East Kingdom
            Gules, three square weaver's tablets in bend Or
*****************************************************************************

From: alkudsi at aol.com (AlKudsi)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Fabric History
Date: 9 Mar 1996 01:28:33 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

Ding.  This question rang my bell...I'm doing some extensive research in
the area in the hopes of doing a Complete Anachronist on the subject.  I
do not claim to be an expert, or a serious scholar, but then, you didn't
ask for one...

Four of my favorite sources are:

WEAVING: A HANDBOOK OF THE FIBER ARTS, by Shirley Held. Published by Hold,
Rinehart, Winston.

WOMEN'S WORK: THE FIRST 20,000 YEARS, by Elizabeth Wayland Barber.
Published by Norton.

PREHISTORIC TEXTILES, also by Elizabeth Wayland Barber.  Published by
Princeton Press.

LOOMS AND TEXTILES OF THE COPTS, by Diane lee Carroll.  Published by the
California Academy of Sciences, through the University of Washing Press.

There are lots of others, but these are a good start.  Elizabeth Barber,
in particular, is both excellent at her research and topic, but an
interesting writer as well (something which cannot be said of every writer
in this or any other research field, unfortunately).

From: LIB_IMC at centum.utulsa.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: The Economics of the Middle Ages (Long)
Date: 27 Jul 1996 18:37:37 -0400

<snip>

>What were bags, tents and tarps made of?  
>Wasn't cotton expensive/nonexistant?

Linen/flax, hemp.  Linen, btw, is actually stronger and more
durable than cotton.  It's just cheaper to produce and dye today.
Flax is also grown for its seeds, which are used to make Linseed
Oil (which some people claim can be used as a cooking oil, although
we tend today to use it as a varnish.  Until about 1300, Egyptian
linen was the best, with Spanish linen a near second.  In the 14th
century, the Dutch invented a method for cheaply and efficiently
breaking up the plant, and soon they became a center for linen
production.

Wool was a very common cloth, coming in different grades, for
different uses.  Note that some course English wools were at times
called "cottons".

Cotton manufacture was imported into Spain by the Moors in the 8th
century, and from there spread by the 12th century to Italy and
France, and by the 14th into Germany, and by the 15th even to
England.  However, cotton was, at this time, more expensive to
produce, and the European grades were really inferior to those
grown elsewhere.

>What is homespun?  (I know it is cloth spun at home!  What would
>it typically be spun OF?) Or is homespun a term from early Col.
>America?

I don't know when the term came to be used, but essentially
Homespun is cloth that was spun and made at home, rather then
produced by professional spinners and weavers.  Since (in theory)
amateur spinners can't maintain the control over the quality of
the threads they spin that professionals can, the term is used to
refer to cloth of an uneven manufacture quality.  I suspect that
the term is post-Medieval, however many people made their own cloth
during the Middle Ages.

>What do peasants wear during the summer?

This is a complicated question since you are covering a large area
of land and time.  However, the laborer's costume (in fact, most
men's costume) consists of the basic pieces of leather boots; two
wool hosen (each a separate leg covering) each tied to a belt
(these are sometimes worn untied and pushed down); a pair of linen
drawers (These are very long early on, and get shorter as the tunic
length gets shorter.  In the 12th C, they were about knee length,
and tied around the knees like knickers); a long shirt, and a
tunic/cote over that.  The tunic/cote could be (and usually was)
for doing hard work.  Sometimes, we see "Peasants" shown barelegged
and/or barefooted.  [You might try looking for a book called "The
Common Man through the Centuries" by Max Barsis].
 
<snip>

I. Marc Carlson, Reference Technician   |Sometimes known as:       
McFarlin Library, University of Tulsa   | Diarmuit Ui Dhuinn 
2933 E. 6th St., Tulsa, OK  74104-3123  | University of Northkeep
LIB_IMC at CENTUM.UTULSA.EDU (918) 631-3794| Northkeepshire, Ansteorra

From: gunnora at bga.com (Gunnora Hallakarva)
To: ANSTEORRA at eden.com
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 01:15:44 -0600
Subject: Cloth of Gold

Heilsa, All.

  Here's another bit of info gleaned from the Historical Costuming list:

Date:    Thu, 31 Oct 1996 08:15:26 -0500
From:    Gary Stephens <garys at FLEXNET.COM>
Subject: Re: Cloth of Gold

Cassandra wrote:
>        When was cloth of gold first used?

        According to an article by Cole Cioran, published in the August
Ursus, a newsletter I produce, cloth of gold was first used:

"        The first appearance of cloth of gold is difficult to date.
Surviving examples have been found in China as early as the 4th century
A.D., but the first surviving examples appearing in the west seem to
coincide with the opening of trade with China in the 13th century . "

>Was it in minor decoration or major
>parts of clothing?  I seem to remember a reference to a cotehardie bi-coloured
>using velvet and cloth of silver.

        It was both a woven fabric, that is, woven with actual gold thread
and coloured textile warp, as well as a gold leafing process, which was the
down-and-dirty form. If you would like a copy of that issue of Ursus, I
would be pleased to send you a back issue for an SASE. I have only about
six copies of that issue left. Write me under private e-mail.

Lorina J. Stephens
=============================

Wassail,
Gunnora Hallakarva
Herskerinde

From: John Francis Stracke <francis at netscape.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Medieval Dress and Textile Society
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 14:58:45 -0800
Organization: Netscape Communications Corporation

My father forwarded this to me from an Anglo-Saxon list he's on; thought
people might be interested:

> A little while ago I asked for information on Anglo-Saxon embroidery
> and a number of people sent bibliographical suggestions.  I thought
> they might be interested to know that there is a Medieval Dress and
> Textile Society - contact Frances Pritchard Deoartment of Urban
> Archaeology, Museum of London, london Wall, London EC2y 5HN O71 600
> 3699.
/=================================================================\
|John (Francis) Stracke |My opinions are my own.|PGP key available|
|Sr. LiveMedia Architect|=========================================|
|Netscape Comm. Corp.   | A man's concepts should exceed his      |
|francis at netscape.com   |  vocabulary, or what's a metaphor?      |
\=================================================================/

From: kwhisler at rpslmc.edu (Kathy Whisler)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: costume research books--??
Date: 18 Jan 1997 07:04:58 GMT

MISS PATRICIA M HEFNER (HPGV80D at prodigy.COM) wrote:
: Does anybody know of a good over-all costume research book? I'm looking
: for a book that would tell me how they made velvet, and other fabrics,
: as well as dyes used and this sort of thing. I know that this is a huge
: topic but I feel like an idiot not knowing a darn thing about this. I
: wouldn't mind sharpening my garb-making skills, either!! Advice, anybody
: ? Merci beaucoup!

I suggest _A History of Textiles_ by Kax Wilson, Westview Press, 1979.  I 
believe it is still in print in paperback, it was a few years ago.  The book 
has many helpful footnotes and bibilographic references.  Even though it is
illustrated only in black and white, the text (which I found fascinating) 
makes up in usefulness for the lack of color.  However, it isn't really a
"costume book" per se.  It is just about fabric.

If you are really after a costume book, you should try to get a look at
_Textiles and Clothing c. 1150-c. 1450_ by Crowfoot, Pritchard, and Staniland.
You may have already seen it or heard of it.  It is from HMSO Books, 1992.  It
describes various garments and garment fragments that have been excavated in
London and includes *very* detailed descriptions of the fabric, as well as
photos of the items.  There is also some basic information on period dyes and
looms.

If you are interested in attempting natural plant dying yourself, I suggest
_The Art and Craft of Natural Dyeing: Traditional Recipes for Modern Use_, by
J.N. Liles, a zoology prof. at the University of Tennessee.  I believe that it
is also in print.  Prof. Liles gives his versions of traditional/period dye 
recipes.  It is an excellent book as a starting point.  Kind of like cooking
period dishes from the redacted recipes in _Take a Thousand Eggs or More_.  
His explanation of how to use indigo is one of the better ones I have found.

You are right, it is a huge topic.  You may be able to find some of the  
info. you want in a standard textile science textbook.  Good luck, and happy 
researching!

--Kathy Whisler (Katerina Arondel)

From: tjustus at sprynet.com (T Justus)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: ramie ?= nettlecloth (was Re: [Q]s about Linen)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 05:11:33 GMT

I wrote
>>(Ramie is a vegetable fiber, also known as nettlecloth.)

Robert wrote

>Is it nettle cloth?
>
>My understanding is that nettles were indeed used in period to make cloth
><insert vague citation of viking/norse web sites here>.  I've
>read references to ramie before, but only with a vague explantion that
>it was similar to rayon.
>
>Do you (or anyone have definative info on this?

From _Linen: Hand Spinning and Weaving_ by Patricia Baines (1989)

Ramie : *Boehmeria nivea*
  Ramie, known also as 'China Grass' or "Rhea', is a genus of
stingless nettle cultivated mainly in China and Formosa. It is a
perennial plant that grows to  height of 1-2 m (4-6 ft) or more. It
was also grown in North America and Europe in the nineteenth century. 

Baines also notes that the common nettle, * Urtica dioica* grows
throughout Europe and has "been used  for making cloth on and off for
many centuries: the earliest known nettle fabric was found in a late
Bronze Age cinerary urn in Denmark."

Baines discusses how both ramie and common nettles are processed. She
notes that nettle fibers are creamy-white or gray and ramie fibers are
white and lustrous. Perhaps there are some spinners out there who have
experience with the two fibers?  

Rayon is a man-made fabric created (during WWII, I think) to mimic
silk. The fiber is a continous monofiliment, like that spun by the
silkworm.

Tracy Justus  AKA Clare de Crecy

From: Karen Williams <brettwi* at ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: ramie ?= nettlecloth (was Re: [Q]s about Linen)
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 01:01:12 -0700

morphis at niuhep.physics.niu.edu wrote: 
> tjustus at sprynet.com (T Justus) writes:
> >(Ramie is a vegetable fiber, also known as nettlecloth.)
> 
> Is it nettle cloth?
> 
> My understanding is that nettles were indeed used in period to make cloth
> <insert vague citation of viking/norse web sites here>.  I've
> read references to ramie before, but only with a vague explantion that
> it was similar to rayon.
> 
> Do you (or anyone have definative info on this?
> 
> Robert

No. Nettle's not the same as either linen, ramie or rayon (which is made
from extruded wood pulp, a process originally invented early 20th
century to produce an imitation silk sold at imitation silk prices-- and
it was truly *awful* fabric then...), which are all bast fibers except
rayon. Chinagrass, which produces ramie, is a bast plant like the
European nettle, but not in the same plant family. I'll quote at length
from E.J.W. Barber's _Prehistoric Textiles_, ISBN 0-691-00224-X,
paperback edition (typos mine, of course!), page 19 [she just finishes
talking about linen and hemp, by the way]:

"Nettle and Other Bast Fibers

"The third bast fiber that we should consider is nettle, from the common
stinging nettle, urtica dioica. Other members of the nettle family have
been used for fiber too; urtica urens and urtica paviflora can be lumped
with urtica dioica for our purposes, whereas Boehmeria nivea, which
gives ramie (also known as Eastern Nettle, or Chinagrass), is native to
the Far East and a latecomer to the West, and will not concern us (see
Hald 1942,37; Kirby 1963, 148,180). The fiber is obtained by various
modified versons of the process used for flax and hemp (Hald 1942), or
by boiling with ashes, i.e., lye (Kirby 1963, 180).  Nettle, which was
still used into this century in northern, central, and easter Europe
(Hald 1942, 33-34), makes its earliest recorded entry onto the
archaeological scene in Scandinavia in the later Bronze Age-- early
first millenium B.C.-- at Voldtofte, Denmark."

        Professor Barber goes on to describe nettle cloth in teh context of her
commentary (not in any particular detail) as very similar to linen, but
whiter and finer. Also, she appends a footnote, number five, to the last
sentence, which says:

"Apparently the awareness that wonderfully soft shirts had been made out
of something so unlikely as stinging, prickly nettle, by inhabitants of
another land or time, fave rise to the European fairytale motif that
nettle shirts were magical ones-- obviously made by magic and, by
extension, endowing the wearer with magical powers (c.f. Hald 1942,
34)."

ciorstan here: the citations are:

Hald, Margarethe. 1942. "The Nettle as a Culture Plants" Folk-Liv
6:28-49 Kirby, R. H. 1963. _Vegetable Fibers_ (London)

Her footnote immediately brings to mind the Brothers Grimm tale, The
Seven Swans, no? And as I mentioned in an earlier article in a related
thread to this one, _Prehistoric Textiles_ is fascinating reading,
though a tad on the early side for SCA purposes despite our lack of
concrete early cut-off date.

ciorstan

From: priest at NOSPAMvassar.edu (Carolyn Priest-Dorman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Cotton in medieval Europe (was Re: velvet)
Date: 11 Sep 1998 20:15:37 GMT
Organization: Vassar College

Lysander (lloyd at real.net.au) wrote:
>To my understanding, Western Europe (during the time that velvets came
>into use) used very little cotton.

There was a thriving cotton industry in northern Italy by the twelfth century, 
working from imported raw materials (mostly Syrian and Turkish).  By the 
fourteenth century the industry had spread over the Alps to Swabia in Germany, 
where it thrived, although German production seems to have been limited to 
fustian and other cotton-blend textiles (unlike Italy, which produced a 
variety of high-grade all-cotton textiles).  Lower-priced exports from Germany 
cut deeply into the Italian export business.

See Maureen Fennell Mazzaoui's _The Italian Cotton Industry in the Later 
Middle Ages 1100-1600_ (Cambridge University Press, 1981) for much more 
information.
******************************************************************
Carolyn Priest-Dorman              Thora Sharptooth
capriest  at  cs.vassar.edu           Frostahlid, Austrrik
        http://www.cs.vassar.edu/~capriest/textileres.html
******************************************************************

Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 02:42:19 -0400
From: Melanie Wilson <MelanieWilson at compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu" <sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu>
Subject: Scarlet

>Which seemed to argue that the term scarlet referred to the dye process
>rather than a color or a special type of fabric or weave. Basically that
>there was a highly expensive process involved in making a certain range
>of colors and that this was what made the cloth so highly prized, as
>well as the fulling etc.

Yes the colour(which we now know as scarlet) was a specific process but
there are various contampory sources that say things like, 
bought 10 ells green scarlet, 5 ells blue scarlet etc. 13th C Eleanor de
Montfort's  records as one example off the top of my head 

I think it is a difficult one, in my period 13th C it seems Scarlet was a
cloth type, possibly most popular in a red colour, later it became a
colour(only) exactly when is hard to say for certain. That is my belief as
of today, it may well change if I find something else !

Mel

Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 11:02:54 PST
From: "T Cardy" <otterbabi at hotmail.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: A question about buckrum

Gentles,

Buckram comes in 4 different weights:  Baby, fine, single & double. It
is generally made of coarse cotton canvas that has been coated with a
water based stiffener and then slighty sanded to create an even, smooth
finish.

The reason for using a water based stiffener is that is can be steam
shaped and stretched into a variety of shapes.  Which is a primary
reasons it has been used almost exclusively for hats - although theatre
costume does utilize it for specialty pieces (eg. high stiffened cape
collars).

It is unsuitable for garment construction for a variety of reasons - but
the major one is the fact of its propensity of creasing and creating
permanent wrinkles.  The stiffener makes the cotton fibers extremely
brittle and once they are cracked they  create weak spaces and rip very
easily.

It you use it as a stiffener in a bodice/corset your body heat and
perspiration can cause it to remold itself and defeat the purpose of
using it in the first place.

There is only one manufacturer in Europe who actually makes double and
baby weight buckram - and they own the only one loom in existence that
make these weights.  The manufacturer does only one run per year
creating about 5,000 yds of each (when it's gone you have to wait
onother year for a new run).

Baby buckram is a light weight single weave fabric that is stiffener
finished on one side only, and as it's namesake is used on baby-fine
(ie. light weight projects).  Double buckram is double thread woven and
is stiffener finished on both sides - it is a marvelous material that I
use all the time for cavelier hats and later period picture hats. When
it is steam shaped it really holds its form - you have to use a heavy
thread when sewing it thought the coarse cotton can shred a finer
thread. ( I use button hole thread a lot)

The suggestion of using boned duck,canvas,denim & ticking are great
ideas for creating a firmly shaped bodice - they are very strong and
inexpensive fabrics - but you sometimes need layers of them to work
well.  If a garment will be subjected to a lot of wear -   the best
fabric to use is cotille - it is a fabric with additional cross woven
fibers, is most commonly of fine linen (sometimes cotton) it is
preshrunk, polished, rip/tear resistant, and does not stretch. (yes, it
is expensive - but you don't need to triple layers to use it) I have
been making fine ladies speciallty dresses and corsets for years and
swear by (rarely at) this fabric - it also normally comes in pink, and
china white - making for a very attractive foundation.

There you have it - more than you every wanted to know about buckram
(believe it or not the condendsed version).

Graciously signing off - after prattling on,

Timothy Albrecht Van Vlear

Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 13:25:09 -0600
From: "I. Marc Carlson" <LIB_IMC at centum.utulsa.edu>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: A question about buckrum

<"T Cardy" <otterbabi at hotmail.com>>
>...The reason for using a water based stiffener is that is can be steam
>shaped and stretched into a variety of shapes.  Which is a primary
>reasons it has been used almost exclusively for hats - although theatre
>costume does utilize it for specialty pieces (eg. high stiffened cape
>collars).

Um, excuse me, but buckrum's most common useage, as far as I know is
in book binding.  It's the fabric stuff they cover the books in.

Marc/Diarmaid

Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 21:01:53 PST
From: "T Cardy" <otterbabi at hotmail.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: A question about buckrum

>Um, excuse me, but buckrum's most common useage, as far as I know is
>in book binding.  It's the fabric stuff they cover the books in.
>
>Marc/Diarmaid

The usage of buckram as a clothing stiffener dates back to New World
Orgins around about the early 1600's.  Sugar starching as a stiffener
became common in the the America's because it was quite easy to come by.
It was seen used as a stiffener in men's doublets to create smooth lines
without the use of boning.  This form of buckram was basically a
stiffened coarse linen dipped in sugar water.

To the best of my knowledge, in the 18th century, the fabric that we
know today as buckram was used predominantly in hat making and as a
lining shaper for stuffed furniture (loose horse hair sometimes being
the stuffing).

There is a slightly different, single woven weight buckram - with a
more open weave, that is used in contemporary bookbinding - it is also
more flexible.  Buckram used in millenery is a very stiff fabric that
can actually break if bent too sharply after it has been shaped.

I unfortunately don't know enough about bookbinding to disagree with
your statement, but I do know that the manufacturer of double buckram
and baby buckram is sold exclusively to garment manufacturers and
theatrical supply houses.

Timothy Albrecht Van Vlear

Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 12:07:47 -0500
From: Roberta R Comstock <froggestow at juno.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: Fiber Properties

On Mon, 24 May 1999 19:22:16 -0400 Irene leNoir <irene at ici.net> writes:
>...So far, I have the following
>
>* generally, natural fibers breathe, and so are cool in hot weather
>and warm in cold weather
>* generally, synthetics don't breathe as well, and aren't as
>comfortable in hot weather
>* polyester resists wrinkling
>* cotton is absorbent
>* wool is warm even when wet
>
>Can anyone think of any other examples, particularly of any fibers not
>mentioned above?
>
>Jessica Clark
>SCA: Irène leNoir

Wool and silk, being animal fibers, are made of proteins, which makes
them   slightly acidic.  They should not be bleached or washed with
Woolite (which is alkaline with a pH of 9).  I usually wash my wool and
silk with a pH balanced (slightly acidic) shampoo.  They benefit from a
bit of lemon juice or vinegar in the rinse water.   They are much more
elastic than plant fibers.  Wool and silk are the easiest of the natural
fibers to dye.

Cotton and linen are plant fibers made of cellulose, which makes them
slightly alkaline.  They can be bleached safely, but resist absorbing
dyes.  Do not use acid rinses on plant fibers.  Cotton (a seed fiber) is
more receptive to dye than linen (a bast fiber, from the stem of the
plant).   Plant fibers are less elastic than animal fibers.  Linen is
less elastic than cotton.  Ramie, made from a stingless Asian nettle, is
very similar to linen.

Tow linen, made from the short fibers (as opposed to the long line
fibers) is softer than line, but less durable.

Synthetic fibers are usually colored before being extruded or spun and
generally cannot  be dyed at home.

Olefin, while not absorbant, does wick moisture away from the body.

Nylon and spandex seem to be the most elastic of the synthetic fibers.

Acrylics can be quite soft, but do not hold a knitted shape very well
unless blended with something else.

When working with blended fibers that have both animal and plant fibers,
treat the product as if it were entirely made of the more costly or
dominant fiber.

Hertha

From: kerric at pobox.alaska.net (Kerri Canepa)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Corduroy as a period fabric
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:07:40 GMT

Rosalinde
>Someone on the 'What sorts of fabrics' thread mentioned something
>about corduroy being a period fabric. I've heard this before, but
>would like more information (she says as she is midway through a 
>dress made out of the very fine-waled corduroy). My impression
>was that it was originally made by cutting silk velvet so that it
>was waled. In this vein, it seems reasonable that the fine-waled
>stuff would be acceptable, but I've never heard yea or nay in a
>SCA context (I know it's widely used in some RenFests to make washable
>garb, but I am also aware that many Renfests should be /very/ carefully
>scrutinized for authenticity). Does anyone have any information about
>this?

Corduroy is a fabric where the pile is formed by creating thread loops with
supplemental weft threads and then cutting the loops. Velvet is similar but the
loops come from a supplemental warp threads. There's evidence that weft pile
fabrics existed in India and the Near East during the medieval period (I don't
have the precise info in front of me so this is from memory) but not in Europe
until much, much later. 

What creates the wales is only cutting some of the loops. And just to confuse
things a bit further, true velveteen is a weft pile fabric as well. The cotton
velveteen available at JoAnns and Walmart is really a very short pile, cotton
velvet. I guess because of the short pile some marketer decided to distinguish
it from velvet by calling it velveteen somewhere in the mists of time.

Not sure I answered the question but hope this helps anyway,

Kerri
Cedrin Etainnighean, OL

Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:03:20 EST
From: <LrdRas at aol.com>
To: sca-arts at raven.cc.ukans.edu
Subject: Re: sackcloth

In a message dated 2/22/00 2:00:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, SNSpies at aol.com 
writes:
<< "sackcloth" >>

a coarse cloth of goat or camel's hair or of flax, hemp, or cotton

Ras

Date:    Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:26:07 -0700
From:    Heather Strait <entropic_heather at YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Questions about cotton satin

> I am looking for the equivalent of cotton satin.

I have used the "sateen cotton" found with the quilting fabrics at Joann
Fabric and Crafts for several garbing projects now with great success. It
washes well, holds color well and drapes like a dream. I was especially
impressed with it's use for Roman garb, since it needed to be opaque
white, but soft and flowing.

I'm not sure how it holds up over time, but I didn't see any significant
changes when I pre-washed. It did fuzz up some, but once it was ironed,
the soft sheen returned. The possible down-side for use in high-Ren garb
is it's thinness, it may not withstand much stress over time, but if you
use a strong  lining and inter-lining, perhaps the stress would be spread
out enough.

It's available in several colors and runs around $6/yard regular price.
I'm sure the product is available other places, this is just where I can
get things in the small town I live in!!!

Genevieve Darroch
Flinthyll, Calontir

Date:    Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:20:48 -0400
From:    Jessica Speer <speerj at UP.NET>
Subject: Re: SCA-GARB Digest - 13 Apr 2004 to 14 Apr 2004 (#2004-14)

Derek Brown wrote:
| > I am looking for the equivalent of cotton satin.
| >
| > At Bed, Bath, & Beyond, I saw 1000 count cotton bed sheets and it
| > seemed to me that this would make wonderful garb (but not at $200 a set) 
| > and it was
| > probably the absolute best I might find for the equivalent of
| > Renaissance cotton satin.
| >
| > Does anyone know what the thread count might have been for Renaissance
| > cotton satin and where I might be able to buy the raw fabric and specify
| > the thread count I want?

| Not so.  Sateen is a weave in which the shiny texture is created by long
| weft floats, as opposed to the long warp floats in satin.
| --
| Adele de Maisieres

Sateen is the back side of satin. If the warp, satin, is the desired face,
the warp threads are the better quality and sett closer. If the weft,
sateen, is desires, the warp is a bit wider sett and the weft is the better
thread. Satin/sateen is a variety on twill in which there is no diagonal
line.

Margit Weaver

Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 19:20:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Theodora (AKA Rachael)" <ladythea at myway.com>
Subject: [SCA-AS] Bibliographic link
To: artssciences at lists.gallowglass.org
Cc: scabyzantine at yahoogroups.com, artemisia at lists.gallowglass.org

Found this while surfing today....
http://www.lib.umich.edu/area/Near.East/Textiles/Textiles.html
It is a textile bibliography that is broken down by topics and locations - this one specialized in near and mid-eastern.

Very cool!
Theodora
(Sentinels' Keep, Artemisia)

To: 	CALONTIR at listserv.unl.edu
Date:    Thu, 19 Nov 2009 05:26:42 -0600
From:    Cindy Kraus <cindy.kraus at COX.NET>
Subject: Re: Question for the Fiber Goob..er.. Fiber Experts..

"The Mary Rose tube is made of a couarse, black, woollen 2 ply yarn 
which is S-spun and Z-plied."

For various reasons, I believe wool is traditionally z-spun 
(clockwise) and s-plied while flax is s-spun (counterclockwise) and 
z-plied.  Wool can, of course, have the reverse spin/ply 
directions.  Flax grows with a natural twist to the fibers which 
makes it better suited to a specific direction (based, oddly enough, 
on which hemisphere it grows: northern or southern)  The above 
directions are found in Europe.  Egyptian finds show linen with the 
opposite direction of spin/ply which confused many analysts until 
more of the biology was known.  Also, cotton and hemp will tend 
toward the opposite direction of flax.  Have I confused you yet?

So, the above wool yarn actually has an unusual direction of spin/ply 
for the typical wool of the time.  Not sure if this is significant or 
not - it may simply indicate where the yarn originated, i.e., a place 
that either more typically spins flax or a place with a very 
localized custom of spinning wool contrary to the neighbors.  I would 
suspect the former to be more likely.

Tamara 

Date:    Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:04:12 -0600
From:    Cindy Kraus <cindy.kraus at COX.NET>
Subject: Re: Question for the Fiber Goob..er.. Fiber Experts..

<<< Tamara wrote:

"For various reasons, I believe wool is traditionally z-spun (clockwise) and
s-plied while flax is s-spun (counterclockwise) and z-plied.  Wool can, of
course, have the reverse spin/ply directions.  Flax grows with a natural
twist to the fibers which makes it better suited to a specific direction
(based, oddly enough, on which hemisphere it grows: northern or southern)"

I wonder if the natural twist of flax has to do with Corliolis Acceleration? >>>

I'm not sure if it's directly attributed to Coriolis Acceleration but 
it does have to do with Earth's rotation relative to the sun.  Plants 
tend to want as much sunlight as they can tolerate so they will 
follow the sun during the course of a day.   Overnight, there is not 
enough correction and the sun travels in the same direction each 
day.  This twist builds up over the days, weeks and months of the 
plant's life and is more extreme the closer to the poles the plant 
grows as the day is longer during the summer growing months.  This 
also means the plants turn one direction in the northern hemisphere 
and the opposite direction in the southern hemisphere.

Tamara

Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 20:22:53 +1100
From: Raymond Wickham <insidious565 at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Lochac] Medici Granducal archive documents going online
To: <lochac at lochac.sca.org>

This looks like a great resource for italian late medieval textile and other resources:
http://www.medici.org/

From: Suzanne Booth <SuzanneBooth at YAHOO.COM>
Date: May 19, 2010 2:00:01 PM CDT
To: CALONTIR at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: [CALONTIR] Cloth of Gold, was [CALONTIR] Hello?

On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 1:32 PM, 'wela Brown ‪<hywela91 at gmail.com>‬ wrote:
<<< But what I was thinking was, if it's so quiet on the list right now, can us costuming geek-types talk about cloth of gold?  Anyone got any info on it? >>>
 
'wela

A very quick search pulled up the following for me:
 
Per Mary Corbet's "Needle 'n Thread" website,
" ... cloth of gold consists of gold either beaten or worked into long strips and wound around a core (such as silk) and then this thread is used in weaving a very rich fabric, which is relatively stiff, heavy, and expensive. "
 
She says that Issue 31 of 'Complex Weavers' Medieval Textiles' "discusses medieval linen weaves, cloth of gold and goldwork, as well as twills and their designs".
 
The newsletter is available via the following link:
http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/webdocs/mnm_mt31.pdf
 
Suzanne
-- 
THL Suzanne de la Ferté
Barony of the Lonely Tower
Kingdom of Calontir

From: Sherry Loveland <gaias_grotto at YAHOO.COM>
Date: May 19, 2010 4:00:17 PM CDT
To: CALONTIR at listserv.unl.edu
Subject: Re: [CALONTIR] Cloth of Gold, was [CALONTIR] Hello?

Cloth of Gold as produced in the Ottoman Empire was as previously stated gold thread wound around silk to give it tensile strength then woven. From my own research it was typically wound around yellow silk. Only the sultan was allowed to wear it unless he gave personal permission for a vizier to wear it. Only once was this documented as happening that I know of. The Ottoman Textile industry was regulated in 1502 such that robes of honor would hold the same value from sultan to sultan and year to year. "The length of fabric used to make a robe for the Sultan out of cloth of gold was regulated to 6000 threads long" I have some research on textiles in the ottoman empire. this is the most specific information I have on cloth of gold.

Aeldraed the Tall

From: Anne <orionsdaughter at gmail.com>
Date: February 22, 2011 12:55:26 AM CST
To: trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com, the-triskele-tavern at googlegroups.com, brighthills at yahoogroups.com, SCA-Garb at yahoogroups.com
Subject: {TheTriskeleTavern} fabric history..

Was looking for something else and found this.. interesting article.
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/198703/fabrics.from.the.middle.east.htm

From: Shane B 
To: medievaltrivia at yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 6:27 AM
Subject: [Medieval Trivia] Fabric History...

http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/198703/fabrics.from.the.middle.east.htm 

Fabrics from the Middle East 

"Cecy has got some beautiful new dresses - a white muslin, a tarlatan and a pink silk.''

Susan Coolidge. What KatyDid, 1873

Written by Caroline Stone
Illustrated by Penny Williams-Yaqub 

Does anyone know what "tarlatan" is any more? Or "tabby"? Or "fustian"?

Fabric names like those, and many others more familiar, have disappeared from shops and labels since our grandmothers' day. Today, we buy largely man-made products with equally manmade names: Dacron, polyester, Tricel, viscose and rayon.

Many of the old materials have been with us for centuries, and before they vanish altogether it is interesting to consider what they are - and were - and where they came from. When we examine their origins in diaries, literature and the records the past has left us, we see that many of them originated in the Middle East.

Of course, homespun cloths of different kinds were produced in England from the earliest times, and in the United States from the first colonization. But materials with native names like flannel, frieze, plaid, twill and linsey-woolsey in fact appear in the literature no earlier than more exotic materials from the East.

One of the earliest materials mentioned, in about the year 1000, is felt. The word comes from Old Slavonic, and it is conceivable that in some way both the word and the cloth reached England from Central Asia, where felt is still produced and much used for tents. The technique of quilting is mentioned a little later and was doubtless of great importance in the icy houses of the European Dark Ages.

In the 13th century, several new materials appear in English records, among them gauze, muslin, fustian, sendal and buckram; several of these names still exist today, but often they do not refer to the same cloth. A kind of weaver's version of Gresham's Law prevails, so that a name may be retained over centuries, originally designating a rich and splendid cloth and gradually degenerating in its meaning to refer to poorer, coarser stuffs.

Gauze, a thin transparent material of silk, linen or cotton, is first mentioned in 1279 under the name gazzatum; it was among the fabrics considered too luxurious for monks to wear. The name may come from the town of Gaza, and the cloth may be of the same type as the famous "veils of Cos" with which Caesar bade Cleopatra cover herself, for decency's sake, when she visited Rome in 43 B.C.

Muslin takes its name from Mosul, in Iraq, where it was originally made. According to Marco Polo, it was "a cloth of silk and gold," although the name has, for several centuries now, simply designated a fine cotton or silk material.

The name of fustian is thought to be derived from Fustat, the original name of today's Cairo and later a suburb of that city, where it was manufactured. Fustian was never very fine - it was originally a coarse cotton-and-flax mixture and then came to be a thick twilled cloth with a filled pile face. It is perhaps because of that soft padded surface that the word fustian has come to mean "pompous or inflated speech or writing." Fustian is first mentioned in the records of Trinity College in 1200, and in 1502 it appears in the accounts of the privy purse expenditure of Elizabeth of York, the wife of King Henry VII: "ij yerdes of white fustyan for sokkes for the Quene."

Sendal has definitely vanished from our vocabularies. The name is probably from the Greek sindon, fine linen, the same word as is used for the winding sheet of Christ. It was first mentioned in 1225 and in 1523 was still esteemed: "There was pyght up a pavilyon of crymasyn sendall, right noble and riche."

Buckram is another material which began fine and ended coarse. It was first mentioned in 1222 and its name maybe derived from Bukhara, a great cloth-making center now in the Uzbek S.S.R. Other possibilities are that the word comes from the Arabic qiram, tapestry or thin dress, or perhaps from kirim, the Turkic word for the Crimea.

In the 14th century, new materials flooded into Europe from the Middle East, largely as a result of the Crusades. Luxury materials of today, such as satin and taffeta, begin to appear, although the other great favorites, damask and brocade, are not mentioned until later centuries.

It has been suggested that the word satin is connected with the Arabic zaituni, meaning "like an olive" or - more likely -"coming from Zaitun," the Arab name for a city in China whose whereabouts are no longer known. Others say it comes from a Chinese word sze-tun or ssu-tuan, a smooth silk. Chaucer was the first to mention it in English, and in 1369 we have:"Ryght wel cledde in fyne blak satyn de owter mere." "Owter mere" was the French Outremer­beyond the seas - and was the term used generally for the Middle Eastern lands occupied by the Crusaders. Whether the fine black satin was made there or simply bought there, we have no way of knowing.

Taffeta was originally a plain glossy silk of any color. It seems to be linked to the Persian word taftah, a silken cloth, which in turn is derived from taftan, "to shine."

Most of the other 14th-century cloths are no longer in use, except serge, which has remained popular. Although the name ultimately derives from the Greek seres, silk, serge seems to have kept its character as a durable, unglamorous woolen cloth over many centuries. In 1386 Chaucer described a rich Oriental town as "the Citee large, Hanged with clooth of gold, and not withsarge."

Another early material that lasted into our grandmothers' time is tabby. This was originally a striped silk taffeta, but the word was later used as a general term for waved or watered cloth, like moiré silk. The name is taken from the Attabiy quarter of Baghdad where the cloth was made, as a 12th-century writer attests: "Here are made the stuffs called Attabiya, which are silks and cottons made of various colours." An early reference to this material occurs in the London Gazette: "Lost,...a child's Mantle, of Sky-colour Tabby."

Because of the irregular striped pattern of tabby cloth, the word also came to be applied to a new breed of cat that began to make its appearance in England at the end of the 17th century. Not long after, Dr. Johnson was complaining that the newfangled tabbies were driving out the true English black-and-white breed - but within a century, it was the tabbies themselves that were being acclaimed as "the true English cats," and certainly today they seem to be predominant.

Camlet appears in the West in the 14th century, and from the beginning its name is associated with the camel, from whose hair the lustrous cloth was supposedly woven. This may be mistaken, and more probable derivations are from the Arabic khamilah, the nap or pile of a fabric, or from an Arabic word for the Angora goat, which may also have provided raw material for the weave. Camlet was usually dyed bright red, and appears in an inventory, in 1413, of the wardrobe of King Henry IV: "Seven yards of red chamlett at 13s4d the remnant."

Cypress vanished two centuries ago. It is another material which began as something very rich, perhaps cloth of gold, declined to being a valuable satin, then to a simple mourning cloth by the year 1611, when Shakespeare wrote: "Lawne as white as driven snow, Cypresse blacke as ere was Crow." Naturally, it came from Cyprus, and when the poet Byron visited the island in the last century, he was struck by the long black cloaks of the women. On asking why they wore them, he was told it was in mourning for a Christian defeat in the Crusades.

But the Crusades ended and this, combined with the rise of piracy in the Mediterranean and the European discovery of the sea routes to the East, led to a decline in the quantity of fabrics imported from the Middle East. In the centuries to come, fashion veered toward fabrics from further east: from India, Persia, Indochina and China.

Damask is one of the last new materials from the Middle East. It originated, of course, from Damascus, the city which also gave the world both fine damascened-steel blades and the red damask rose - the most scented of all roses. First mentioned in 1480 - "A fayre whyte covering of damaske clothe" - damask retained its nature and use through the centuries. More than a century later, in 1609, we learn that "a Damask table cloth cost me eighteen pound." It is perhaps worth remembering that fine cloth was comparatively more expensive then than it is now, and there were fewer alternatives available.

In the same century as the first mention of damask, a mysterious entry appears in the accounts of the Lord High Treasurer of Scotland for 1488: "A covering of variand purpir tartar...and a unicorn." The unicorn remains unexplained, but the tartar, also known as "cloth of Tartary," seems to have been a many-colored woolen material, presumably imported from the Crimea, where the Tatar people live, or even further east. It is possible - barely -that this "variand" cloth was the ancestor of the tartan cloth that, more recently, has become the emblem of Scotland.

The word brocade was introduced in the mid-16th century, and the paintings of the period amply demonstrate the popularity of the cloth itself. Brocade was distinguished by its raised patterns that were originally of silver and gold embroidery. The origin of the word is disputed; the English form is taken from the Spanish which in turn comes from an Italian root that refers to the projecting "tooth" of the embroidered figures. But in Hakluyt's Voyages an account of Ormus says that "cloth of silke, brocardo, and divers other sortes of marchandise come out of Persia." Perhaps, then, brocade represented another triumph of Persian taste and craftsmanship.

Bombazine first appears in English in 1555. Its name is derived from bombyx, the Greek for silkworm, and a connection with the Persian word pampe, cotton, has also been claimed. In Elizabethan times it was more often used in the form "bombast," or padding, and thus, with fustian, came to mean a ranting, theatrical, insincere style. Bombazine itself did not come into its own until the Victorian period, when its invariable black became a symbol of sober respectability and hence preferred for housekeepers and mourners.

Calico, on the other hand, was one of the first materials to arrive from the further East. The name derives from the city of Calicut on India's Malabar coast, one of the chief ports in the trade between India and Europe. The poet Dunbar mentions the city in The Worldis Instabilitie in 1505, and in 1541 a letter to King Henry VIII speaks of "IX peces of Callicutt claith pertenyng to ane William Blaky in Leith." The cloth was soon in very general use, and in 1666 Pepys mentions in his diary "flags, which I had bought for the Navy of calico." Calico was described in 1753 as "an Indian stuff made of cotton sometimes stained with gay and beautiful colours." That is still an accurate description in the United States, while in England calico is plain white cotton, bleached or unbleached. Calico became immensely popular, especially in 19th-century America - a fact commented on in trade reports by Emerson.

Chintz was another material which came on the market about the same time and, in his diary for 1663, Pepys wrote, "Bought my wife a chint, that is, a painted Indian callico, for to line her new study." He was using the singular form correctly, for the word derives from the Hindi chint (plural chints), and the two forms were not confused to form our chintz until the late 18th century. The characteristics of Indian chintzes were their flower and bird designs and their high glaze, still to be found in traditional homes today and, indeed, now enjoying a revival.

The third fabric of this period, also much used for interior decorating, was dimity. In 1632 we read of "a hundred Camels loaden with Silkes, Dimmeties and other Commodifies." It was originally a stout cotton cloth with raised stripes and fancy figures that was usually used undyed for beds and bedroom hangings, although later it came to mean a rather lighter material. The word may be related to the Arabic dimyati, from the name of the important port of Damietta in Egypt, or perhaps from the Greek "two-threaded," referring to a doubled warp thread used in its weaving. (The name of the heavier samite cloth was similarly derived from the Greek for "six-threaded.") In either case it would seem likely that the material dates back far beyond the 17th century, but apparently it did not reach England, or did not happen to be recorded by that name.

The origin of duck, a strong untwilled linen or, later, cotton, is known. It reached England and the English language via the Dutch - where dock means "cloth" - probably from Indochina. It is first mentioned in 1640, and in 1780 Thomas Jefferson wrote in one of his letters: "What is to be done for tents, I do not know. I am assured that very little duck can be got in this country."

Percale was first imported from the East Indies in the 17th century, and the origin of the word is uncertain. Parqali, "rag" in Persian, has been suggested, and this is not unlikely, for Persian was then the lingua franca of much of the trading world.

Gingham, much used in the 19th century for waistcoats and umbrellas, and still a modern favorite, is derived from the Malay ginggang, originally an adjective meaning "striped." In 1615, we read, "Capt. Cock is of the opinion that the ginghams, both white and browne,... will prove a good commodity in the Kinge of Shashma his cuntry." By 1763, however, times had changed and gingham no longer came into the category of trade goods. In that year a reporter wrote that "ladies of taste are prodigiously fond of the Ginghams manufactured there" - and "there" meant industrial Manchester, England.

This rise in cheap textile production in the West was soon to have a serious effect on Oriental imports. In England, tweed and corduroy were coming in for common wear, while the fashionable world looked to France for its crèpes and voiles, chiffons and tulles, to say nothing of that useful sailcloth, toîle de Nîmes - now better known to us as denim.

Materials still came from the East, however. Cecy's tarlatan was introduced at the beginning of the 18th century and organdy a hundred years later. The origins of both words are lost, though we know they came into English from French. The materials themselves most probably came from India, perhaps by way of the French colonies. And in 1757 a thin linen, striped in pale blue and white, was introduced. It was known under the charming name of seersucker, from the Persian shir o shikar, milk and sugar, and is still worn today.

For the sake of their own markets, the 19th-century producers of factory-made textiles in the West did all they could to discourage the handmade cloths of the Orient. Admittedly, Kashmir shawls and Indian muslins remained in vogue, and toward the end of the century a growing interest in China led to a flow of crèpes de Chine, pongees, shantungs and tussores. But Eastern materials were - with a few exceptions - no longer priceless treasures; interests had shifted elsewhere.

Now in the 20th century, the wind has changed yet again. In both England and America, those who do not wish to wear Dacron, Courtelle or any of the acrylic fibres are more and more, like their grandparents, buying cottons and silk gauzes from India, heavy printed silks from Thailand, batiks from Malaya and Java, and foulards and satins from China and Japan. We can hope that, before too long, they will also be looking again for muslins, damasks, taffetas, and tabbies from the Middle East.

Caroline Stone is a freelance writer who divides her time between London, Rome and Seville. She is the author of The Embroideries of North Africa, published by Longman.

This article appeared on pages 2-5 of the May/June 1987 print edition of Saudi Aramco World.

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Edited by Mark S. Harris	textiles-msg	Page  of