Title: SCA-transport-msg
Subject: Typical and unusual SCA vehicles and transport.
Author: Edited by Mark S. Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: SCA, cars, trucks, vans, transport, drive, travel, bus

SCA-transport-msg - 4/16/11

Typical and unusual SCA vehicles and transport. SCA trailers.

NOTE: See also the files: travel-msg, carts-msg, boat-building-msg, sedan-chairs-msg, wheelbarrows-msg, tent-transprt-msg, travel-foods-msg.

************************************************************************
NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I  have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I  have done  a limited amount  of  editing. Messages having to do  with separate topics  were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the  message IDs  were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make  no claims  as  to the accuracy  of  the information  given  by the individual authors.

Please  respect the time  and  efforts of  those who have written  these messages. The  copyright status  of these messages  is  unclear  at this time. If  information  is  published  from  these  messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mikes at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (michael squires)
Subject: Re: You might be a stick jock with a small car if...
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 15:03:54 GMT

silbrmnd at acf4.nyu.edu (The Dark Mage) writes:
>My mom's car (a Volvo) was designed for polearms...  If you lower the

Six of us went to Pennsic X in a 1959 Pontiac Catalina.  We discovered that
the fins were perfect for carrying rattan; we found most of a bundle that
had been discarded Monday morning and tied it to the driver's side of the
car.  Since the Catalina is large the 12' poles stuck just a bit past
the driver's wind-wing (remember them?).

We also had two car top carriers on the roof, and one on the trunk.  The
trunk would take great swords straight in.

And, even with six people and a horrible overload (stuff was tied inbetween
the three cartop carriers) we still were easily able to get up to 100 mph
to escape two 18-wheelers who seemed to be on drugs and who tried to run
over us.  I was very happy I had just bought new Michelin X oversize radials.
-- 
Michael L. Squires, Ph.D   Manager of Instructional Computing, Freshman Office,
Chemistry Department, IU Bloomington, IN 47405 812-855-0852 (o) 81-333-6564 (h)
mikes at indiana.edu, mikes at ucs.indiana.edu, or mikes at nickel.ucs.indiana.edu

Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 23:19:48 -0500
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: Ted Eisenstein <Alban at socket.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Pennsic fantasies

> I have always wanted to rent a big old school bus and
> a big old truck with plenty of space for everyone's

Some old, old, old-timers from Calontir still talk of the
Vatavian War Bus. Some people from Vatavia had a big
school bus that they used frequently for long road trips.
One year they took it to Pennsic: it was loaded inside with
people and a lot of baggage - and, on both outside sides were
taped the really long pole-arms, some extending past the
radiator; on the roof, ditto; and over the radiator were
a couple of the Mark I scutums/warshields (only place
they'd go, really. . . )

As it turned into St. Aidan's Square, which was at that point
where troll was, the Pennsic Marshall just happened to
be walking by. He came over; smacked each shield a
couple of times, examined the foam over each of the spears
and polearms, and rattled them to be sure they were on
securely - and proceded to put an official "Passed Inspection"
sticker on the windshield. . .

Alban

Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:36:24 -0700
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org
From: lilinah at earthlink.net
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: SCAdians vehicles, WAS: Drakey's driving.

Now i have an old mid-size station wagon, which gets VERY full of my
stuff. I'm thinking of buying one of those streamlined "boxes" that
attach to the roof of the car. I'd like to replace my Coleman camp
cot with futon for a slat bed, and i'd like an additional lightweight
folding table to add to the kitchen and a "peri-oid" wooden table and
benches for eating and visiting. Now folks tell me my car can pull a
small trailer, so...

Anahita

From: "Phlip" <phlip at 99main.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: SCAdians vehicles, WAS: Drakey's driving.
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:56:45 -0400

 Anahita skrev:
> Now i have an old mid-size station wagon, which gets VERY full of my
> stuff. I'm thinking of buying one of those streamlined "boxes" that
> attach to the roof of the car. I'd like to replace my Coleman camp
> cot with futon for a slat bed, and i'd like an additional lightweight
> folding table to add to the kitchen and a "peri-oid" wooden table and
> benches for eating and visiting. Now folks tell me my car can pull a
> small trailer, so...

Oh, Lordy, tell me about it! Every time I pull into Pennsic, my vehicle
looks like something out of the Beverly Hillbillies, and that's with storage
in Zelienople, or however it's spelled. This Pennsic, I drove the Ford
Bronco from CT to Cooper's, dropped the trailer and some of the waterproof
stuff, drove down into Ohio and loaded more stuph, and back to Pennsic.
Afterwards, it took 3 fully loaded trips, plus help from a couple other
vehicles to load the storage locker, then drove the full Bronco, with a
loaded trailer, back to CT.

Of course, the Metal Smith's Symposium, I trevelled light- All my camping
gear and garb, a 10 X 20 shelter, three forges, blowers, a dozen RR track
anvils, etc etc etc.... Thank Heavens for Ron's pick-up truck....

Phlip, who definitely travels heavy....

Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 00:34:56 -0400
From: vongraph <vongraph at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Re: SCAdians vehicles, WAS: Drakey's driving.
To: sca-cooks at ansteorra.org

>  Anahita skrev:
> > Now i have an old mid-size station wagon, which gets VERY full of my
> > stuff. I'm thinking of buying one of those streamlined "boxes" that

>lets see now theres the RV 27' of it with the camp trailer on the back
usually, then one of the other house members will be bringing the tavern
(5400 pounds of it in one trailer:) ) depends on who tows which but I have
the RV stuffed with all the stuff we need for camp site and personal use. I
was thinking tractor trailer next, thats if we decide to have the Harper's
Raid public roman baths next summer.

YIS, Elric

From: "Siegfried Heydrich" <baronsig at peganet.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: SCAdians vehicles  WAS:Re: [Sca-cooks] Drakey's driving.
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:05:40 -0400

    I have a '72 Buick Electra 225 (19'5" long) powered by what used to be a
455 ci (before it got MUCH better . . . it's a 496 now . . .) engine with a
trunk that I could move a family of Haitians into that is used for events
only these days. Even then, I'm pulling a 5,400 pound camp trailer / cooker,
still getting around 10 mpg under load, 15 mpg unloaded. And still can shock
the hell out of the local hot rodders . . . Boats just shouldn't GO that
fast!

    Sieggy

From: "dseguin" <dseguin at directvinternet.com>
To: <sca-cooks at ansteorra.org>
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:49:20 -0500
Subject: [Sca-cooks] Re: SCAdians vehicles

I just gave up and got a truck.  Course we also merchant, but just when I
think a small economical vehicle is in order, I see a site that makes you
rethink.  Imagine stopped on a steep one-way road watching a F-350 stopped
because the trailor hitch is bottoming out.  That was yesterday, and the
road was at least a 45 degree incline and needed regrading.  I was glad I
had the truck and no trailor.  There are so many roads into sites that are
tough on small cars that it almost makes you want a 4x4.   Thankfully they
aren't usually that bad.  But here in texas, there are so many great sites
on somebody's land.  Heck this weekend in Bjornsborg, we're having an event
on one of the member's land.  Let's just say that our local joke is "what a
fine crop of rocks we're raising this year".  The owner is improving the
roads on the property, but I feel for small vehicles with low ground
clearance.

Bersi Ormstunga
AKA Pubear of Bjornsborg
Apprentice to Mistress Clarissa di Firenze

From: Eadric Anstapa <eadric at scabrewer.com>
Date: July 12, 2004 3:31:47 PM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>, April 
Gillilan <agillilan at swbell.net>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] SCA Trailers?

April Gillilan <agillilan at swbell.net> said:
> JP and I have been thinking of getting a trailer to carry, and
store, our
> SCA stuff in.  What opinions/experiences/recommendations does
everyone have
> on what brand or type of trailer to get?
>
> Has anyone had any trouble with storing stuff in a trailer?
> Is the door at the front of the trailer really useful?
> Are enclosed trailers better than flatbeds or those with no top?
> Can things be safely and easily strapped to the tops or sides?
> Can shelves or hooks be attached to the inside to carry things
>    easier and safer?
> How short is too short, or how long is too long?
> Aluminum? Steel? Wood? Plastic?
> Is a ramp useful?
> One rear door, or two?
> Two wheels, or four?
>
> Anything else?
>
> Gilyan
> Mooneschadowe

I have a 5'x8' enclosed cargo trailer and I love it.

It is light enough thay when empty I can move it around by hand.  It
is weather tight and can be locked up securely so I am not afraid to
store stuff in it for a length of time.

When i was looking at trailers I decided on the 5'x8' because it was
as big as I needed and still small enough that I can pull it behind
my Nissan Pathfinder with no problems.  I am only 5'7" so I can just
barely stand up in the trailer.

I have metal "breadrack" shelving along one side and the front of
the trailer to organize things.  They are free-standing shelves and
I have bars and wing-nuts that hold them securely to the walls when
they are installed  yet I can remove them all in about 2 minutes if
I need the trialer open for something larger.  Also when I get to
Pennsic or Gulf War I take the shelving out and set them in our
Pavillion or Kitchen tents and they are usefull during the week.

My 5x8 trailer also has the advantage of being small enough that I
can actually set my period pavillion up over it and nobody knows the
trailer is in there unless I tell them.  When I have it setup that
way I setup my bed inside the trailer andh ave a warm, cozy, and dry
bedroom.

When making my purchasing decision I chose the "XL Cargo" line from
the General Cargo brand of trailers.  The where a little bit more
sturdy for the price.  They have heavier walls with 3/8" OSB walls
instead of just 1/8" Luan that so many others have, they had treated
3/4" tongue and groove plywood floors, and heavier axle and full
size wheels and tires.  And they are made in Ansteorra.

I have been very happy with the trailer.
-- 
Arcus Eadric Anstapa
Ansteorra

From: Chass Brown <chass at allegiance.tv>
Date: July 13, 2004 1:37:12 PM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] SCA Trailers?

Well believe it or not usually one can pick up a used enclosed trailer from
U-Haul (Tis where I procured mine from), usually they are very inexpensive
and need very little done to them. I think all we had to do was replace a
tire and add a spare. Ours not only has back doors into it but a door on the
side as well. We are going to be adding a ramp to ours soon./... for obvious
reasons (being stuck in a wheel chair aint fun).  I do hope ye find a trailer
that suits ye.

Chass of Rundel aka
Charinthalis Del Sans of the portable Chariot
Honorable Recruiter of the House of the Red Shark (Have you seen my 
Belaying Pin??)

From: Myrtle of the Lost and Missing <myrtle at midnightoile.com>
Date: July 13, 2004 11:54:26 AM CDT
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Subject: [Ansteorra] Trailers

I've had two over the years.

First was standard farm trailer open type.  Fixed plywood to the
front and sides, stuffed our stuff in, covered with a tarp and went.

Went LOTS of miles actually.  It worked well even in bad weather. 
How well depended on the packing job of course.

Second was a second-hand enclosed horse trailer.  Well worth the
money.  Has locking compartments that are water tight.  It lets you
put your camping stuff in one compartment and fighting/pavilion etc
in another.  Handy when you get there late and just want to set the
tent up.

The trailer is tall enough I have room for all my stuff and I think I
probably paid less than a smaller enclosed trailer.

YIS

Myrtle of the Lost and Missing

From: Leofric Ealdricson <lealdricson at hotmail.com>
Date: July 14, 2004 8:54:13 PM CDT
To: ansteorra at ansteorra.org
Subject: RE: [Ansteorra] SCA Trailers?

For years, I stored my camping gear in a trailer.  I had a 10'x6' 
trailer that held camping gear for 2 adults and 5 kids.  My camping 
gear lived in the trailer.  I never had any problems with it getting 
wet.  The only thing that I did not store in the trailer were candles 
(tried it, didn't work).

Mine was a Well Cargo brand trailer.  The trailer had a steel frame, 
steel ribs and aluminum outer skin.  I would get the side door.  It 
makes it a lot easier to get to things.

My recommendation would be to get an enclosed trailer.  Stick all of 
your stuff up and see how big a trailer you will need.  the length will 
be determined by your longest item.  Remember that the size of an 
enclosed trailer is the OUTSIDE dimensions. the inside will be 2" - 3" 
smaller.  Therefor, an 8' pole will not fit straight down the inside 
wall of a 5'x8' trailer.

Most trailers of this size (5x8 or 6x10) will have an axle rated at 
2000lb.  That is NOT enough to carry all of the stuff that could be put 
in the trailer.  I had my trailer upgraded to a 3200lb axle and I could 
stuff it to the gills and it didn't even flinch (went to Gulf Wars that 
way a couple of times).  Definitely consider an upgrade to the axle.

Other than that, shop around for a good buy but remember that you will 
get what you pay for.  A quality trailer will last for a long time and 
will hold it's resale value.

Regards
Leofric Ealdricson

From: Pug Bainter <pug at pug.net 
Date: July 15, 2004 8:24:13 AM CDT 
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at ansteorra.org 
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] SCA Trailers? 

Leofric Ealdricson (lealdricson at hotmail.com) said something that sounded like:

>>>
 Mine was a Well Cargo brand trailer. The trailer had a steel frame, steel ribs and aluminum outer skin. I would get the side door. It makes it a lot easier to get to things. 
<<<

I have a Wells Cargo as well and love it. The side-door is a must for anyone who carries a lot of heavy items, like canvas. I can pack all of my canvas at the front of the trailer for proper weight distribution and pull it out first to setup camp. I also made a false floor inside mine so that I can store all the poles, bed, etc underneath. 

>>>
My recommendation would be to get an enclosed trailer. Stack all of your stuff up and see how big a trailer you will need. the length will be determined by your longest item. Remember that the size of an enclosed trailer is the OUTSIDE dimensions. the inside will be 2" - 3" smaller. Therefor, an 8' pole will not fit straight down the inside wall of a 5'x8' trailer. 
<<<

One of the benefits of the particular Wells Cargo trailer I have is that is is at least 3" larger in each dimension than typcial trailers. This means I can put 8' poles in it without a problem. As well, my 9' spears fit diagnolly with plenty of room. 

>>>
Most trailers of this size (5x8 or 6x10) will have an axle rated at 2000lb. That is NOT enough to carry all of the stuff that could be put in the trailer. I had my trailer upgraded to a 3200lb axle and I could stuff it to the gills and it didn't even flinch (went to Gulf Wars that way a couple of times). Definitely consider an upgrade to the axle. 
>>>

When I got mine 4 or years ago it was a 3000lb axle as a standard. 

Btw, the ratings are typically on the tongue supports somewhere. 

Ciao, -- Phelim "Pug" Gervase 
Bryn Gwlad - Ansteorra 

From: Chass Brown <chass at allegiance.tv>
Date: July 16, 2004 1:17:43 AM CDT
To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] SCA Trailers?

One of the things that I am having placed upon the trailer is crank down
sides so i can use them as platforms (kind of like the windows in a drive
through and a shelf to make it easier on me) to put things on from the
outside and have them sitting there so i can get into the trailer to load
them and tie them down. It also will make it easier to air out the trailer
when we need to. it was suggested that i have a crank down internal ceiling
to place things on and net down and then crank back up but i havent had a
chance to look into it.

Chass of Rundel aka
Charinthalis Del Sans of the portable Chariot
Honorable Recruiter of the House of the Red Shark (Have you seen my Belaying
Pin??)

From: Wolfram Gottfried <wolfman at darkhorde.org>
Date: October 30, 2007 2:14:19 PM CDT
To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad <bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] Shopping for a new vehicle advice

I usually just lurk here, but this is a subject I've dealt with a lot between SCA events, Ren Fairs and towing sailboats around.

One thing to keep in mind when you're looking at the large body minivans/crossover vehicles, roof racks and such while thinking "I can cram all my stuff in here easy" is cubic feet of space does NOT equate into pounds of capacity.

I have a small Ford Escort wagon that, with the rear seats flipped down can physically fit almost ALL my camping gear including a 12x14 period pavilion with all poles, break down wooden furniture, lots of decorative iron work and other heavy stuff.  Problem is, the car is only rated for 800 pounds of riders and cargo, so once I get in I'm down to 550 pounds worth of carrying capacity.  My stuff weighs more like 1500 pounds and would break the springs and axles if I actually tried to go any significant distance with it.  A minivan can hold a lot but can it safely MOVE it?  Some minivans are better than others - unfortunately the two I would really like are no longer made (the Chevy Astro/GMC Safari or the Toyota Privia).  Both were rear wheel drive, had serious suspensions and could carry and tow - the Privia was rated for 3500 pounds and the Astro/Safari could do 5000 with the right setup.

Small unibody front-wheel drive cars also don't like pulling trailers - the transmissions and structure of the car just are not designed for that kind of extra stress...a trailer puts some really weird stretch/compress loads on the vehicle structure and even more random side stresses which can (and I've seen) actually deform the sheet metal. I watched a 4 door Toyota sedan going down 183 one time pulling a trailer, and you could see where the back doors and trunk did not align properly anymore because the whole back half of the body had deformed and stretched.  Not safe.

I used to have a small 2 door Jeep Cherokee with the 4 cyl. engine - same issue with cramming camping gear INSIDE...it would fit but the rear wheels were rubbing the inside of the fenders - it pulled loaded u-haul trailers from Virginia to Pennsic, pulled my 2000 pound sailboat around for a while and had adequate torque and power, but the driveline was too light and the brakes were abysmal (both feet on the brake pedal and a definite Exxon-Valdez feeling as you SLOWLY came to a stop - required much planning and looking ahead to handle and overall was not a safe combination).  Electric trailer brakes would have been a big help here, but with a boat trailer electric brakes and salt water are not a good mix.  The smaller uHaul trailers also are NOT equipped with brakes (I know the little 4x6 and the larger 5x8 ones are not because I've used them) so if you will be towing one of those you want a vehicle with enough brakes to do the job. That Jeep also broke u-joints every 6-8 months - for lighter work it would have been fine but it was being asked to do more than it should. The Jeeps with the inline 6 cylinder engine (not the smaller V6) were a different beast entirely - that would have done very well.  I switched to a 1984 Lincoln Town Car that had plenty of power and brakes, but inadequate cooling (would overheat if you went over 45MPH....at night...with the A/C off).

So I bought an old F250 pickup that needed some work, ended up beingabout $3500 in purchase and repairs to get it up to snuff, but it will pull the wheels off any trailer I'd want to hook to it.  Brakes with real authority, enough power to get it moving, springs and suspension to match.  Gas milage sucks (11 MPG), I wouldn't drive this to work every day. I dragged a 6x10 utility trailer loaded with every bit of camping gear I own and then some down to the Ren Fair last weekend, and I had to keep checking the mirror to make sure the trailer was really there because it didn't feel much different.

So - my thoughts on it are: Even if you aren't going to pull a trailer, get the factory tow package anyway.  It should give you upgraded brakes, better rear springs and cooling which will give you a safer trip when you load down the interior cargo capacity. If you ARE going to pull a trailer - get a vehicle with a real frame and rear wheel drive - get the factory tow package on that to get the right springs brakes and cooling setup also.  Keep wind resistance in mind also, with roof racks and trailers.  Not only does it cut your fuel mileage, but it makes your engine and transmission work harder and could adversely shorten their lifespan if they aren't up to the task, especially on a long trip.  More power and a heavier drivetrain are a good thing in this case.  The larger engine is not ALWAYS a fuel economy killer - if you keep your foot out of it and don't open it up you can get decent mileage from a larger engine ... just takes a little self discipline.

I'd consider something like a late model Grand Marquis/Lincoln Town car
unless you're dead set on buying brand new (mainly because I could never
afford to buy anything NEW) - properly set up (mine wasn't) one of these
can safely tow a good sized trailer and they get reasonable fuel economy
when not towing (as long as you keep your foot out of it).  Would give
you plenty of room for passengers and luggage in day to day driving
without the areodynamic penalty of a brick-shaped SUV, and they are
comfortable as heck for a long trip.  A truck is a good bet for a
secondary vehicle, but if one has to do it all then a truck probably
won't be your best bet.

From: Jay Yeates <jyeates at realtime.net>
Date: October 31, 2007 8:18:14 AM CDT
To: 'Barony of Bryn Gwlad' <bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Bryn-gwlad] OT: Shopping for a new vehicle advice

checkout here:
http://www.northerntool.com/
 
they have a fairly extensive selection of trailer parts.  if interested in upgrading the trailer you have, you can likely find a heavier duty axle with hubs suitable for bigger tires (that use lug nut)you should be able.  the added weight should improve towing stability.  though whole matter is controlled by the “if factor” – can the frame of the trailer support the changes.
 
Stefan li Rous wrote:
 
On Oct 30, 2007, at 9:51 AM, Eric W. Brown wrote:
<<< On the trailer… Note the small wheels… A small wheel trailer will be a huge pain to tow at speeds over 45. Be aware of this. >>>

I've got the smaller wheels on my trailer, which I bought just before TFYC and have been using off and on since then. I've never had a problem towing it at highway speeds behind either my Toyota Corolla, our past Dodge Caravan or our current Honda Odessey mini-van. it is a fairly low, streamlined trailer though.
 
However next trailer I do want the larger wheels that use lug nuts. My current trailer doesn't use lug nuts, but rather bolts that go through the wheel rim into the threaded holes in the axle. 
 
We have really liked the mini-vans as a compromise between an SUV, a pickup or a larger pickup. The interior space is larger than most SUVs and when we need it, we can haul up to six people. For Gulf Wars we can put a roof carrier on or use the luggage rack to expand our space.  I'm afraid that just Alina and I pretty well stuff the van and roof carrier going to Gulf Wars, but if we can find a second driver then we will simply hook up the trailer.
 
The mini-vans are shrinking over the years though. We had the Dodge Caravan originally rather than the longer Grand Caravan. When it came time to replace the van,  most mini-vans on the market were smaller than the Dodge Caravan we had, including that year's Dodge Caravan, really leaving us with only the Dodge Grand Caravan or the Honda Odessey.  Since the Caravan had gone through two transmissions and three fuel pumps ($800 for a fuel pump?!!!) in 165K miles, we spent a bit more money and got the Honda.  The only problem we've had with it was with the electric doors, which we wouldn't have bought except they came with the upgrade package which included the towing package and other things we wanted. 
 
Stefan
--------
THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
   Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas          StefanliRous at austin.rr.com

Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 08:17:03 -0500
From: "Mike C. Baker" <kihebard at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Sca-cooks] Take the Train (or Skytrain?)
To: "'Cooks within the SCA'" <sca-cooks at lists.ansteorra.org>

<<< I do remember wishes/rumors years ago of folks in the West 
Kingdom who wanted to lease a boxcar/container and send their 
stuff to Pennsic that way, and be able to camp in style. I 
think they were planning on flying themselves over and not 
travel by train though.  
Interesting, but sounds like a real logistics headache. >>>

In the wishes/not-a-rumour (I WAS There) category, circa A.S. XIV - XV
one Thomas Dragonflyer and some others of the Moonschadeen were
semi-seriously investigating the rental / lease / purchase of a DC-3 or
similar cargo / mixed-use aircraft for transport to SCA events,
wargaming, and SF&F conventions.  

Nothing ever directly came of that to the best of my knowledge, although
my memory sez that Thomas and a passenger or two did travel to one or
more SCA events via private plane (think Cessna 150) shortly after he
attained his private pilot single-engine rating.  Significant limiting
factor was difficulty in finding reliable ground transport from the
small local airfields they were trying to use...

The updated version of the "wish" / cargo craft was thus for something
large enough, equipped with a ramp, that it could haul a VW "Thing" (the
new-production descendant of the Kubelwagen that was sold in the
American passenger vehicle market in the mid-70s) or similar lightweight
& high-capacity ground auxiliary transport.

We always did tend to dream large...

Amra / Kihe / Mike

From: Johnna Holloway <johnnae at mac.com>
Date: August 12, 2009 3:34:09 PM CDT
To: Stefan li Rous <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
Subject: SCA transport

There's an article in the Pennsic Independent about two
kids in their 20's that walked in from Wisconsin. About 670-700 miles.
Left in June.

Johnnae

Stefan li Rous wrote:
<<< I've often considered getting a live donkey and cart.  More authentic,
runs on bio fuel [ha], the "exhaust" is good for the roses and besides,
I can make all the "ass" jokes.  Like my ass?  What a fine piece of
ass.  You can pat my ass but don't pinch my ass.

Selene Colfox >>>

Well, we have an app er file for that!

carts-msg         (40K) 12/20/00    Carts, wagons and other wheeled vehicles.
http://www.florilegium.org/files/TRAVEL/carts-msg.html

Stefan

To: SCA Newcomers list <scanewcomers at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Transport for your equipment - was "Getting ready for this event ...
Posted by: "julian wilson" smnco37 at yahoo.co.uk smnco37
Date: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:08 am ((PDT))

--- On Sun, 17/10/10, Giertrud Gyldenstierne <giertrud at gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [SCA Newcomers] re: Getting ready for this event is a bit harder than I expected..
<<< One bus should be enough. >>>

My lady and I started-out with 2 sets of garb each, and a few weapons - and the old 1-tomme van I used for my work. Then we decided to build a complete medieval encampment, after meeting H.E. Master Terafan Greydragon and Lady Dubheasa ni Cheirin, - and seeing their period encampment [which we assumed was the "average standard" we'd have to try to attain so as to "fit-in-with-everyone-else"!].

 Now, as an "event-wagon",  we have an ex-17-seat diesel-engined minibus, with 11 of the seats removed to give us a 13ft-long cargo-area.

The downside of building a complete period encampment is, however - the more equipment you have, - the longer it takes to pitch camp, and to strike camp.
On average, it takes my Lady and I about 5hrs to pitch camp, - and about
3.5hrs to re-pack everything and re-load the van afterwards. Plus another 4-5 hrs when we get home, to unpack, wash, launder and re-pack our plastic storage tubs  [which live out-of-sight under our rope-bed when onsite] - all ready to be re-loaded for our next event.

One knight in our Kingdom who has a period encampment and brings his family to weekend-long events, packs everything into a 7ft-headroom closed trailer, which he tows behind his 4x4 big Toyota  SUV;, 2 other members who camp with their Households have big US-made pick-up trucks.

As far as "bulk to be transported" goes, - much depends on whether you have a period tent interior, or not. Our 10ftx10ft sleeping tent had a fully-period interior - furnished with a US-double-sized rope bed, 2 X-frame folding period chairs, 2 flat-pack "period" chests, and a narrow "altar-table", plus hangings, and a painted floor cloth. And those were just the bulky items! Atop those, we had all the smaller items - feastgear, period tablecloths, our period clothing, weapons, scribe's writing-slope and accessories, a medieval field-surgeon's kit, candlesticks and holders, and candles, cooking kit, & c, &c.

Our previous, 1 ton Ford panel van's cargo-space was usually about half-full, closely-packed, with all our tent-centre-pole on the roof-rack.

Lord Matthewe Baker,
"old" Jersey,
Drachenwald

To: SCA Newcomers list <scanewcomers at yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: How  big of a vehicle...
Posted by: "invertedarcher" invertedarcher at aol.com invertedarcher
Date: Mon Mar 7, 2011 3:14 pm ((PST))

That depends on how comfortable you want to be.

The first war I went to was a Southern Crusades (here in AZ) in November.  I hadn't EVER been camping, and the person who invited me told me it would be "freezing".  I apparently didn't fully comprehend what he meant, because I showed up with a pup tent, a twin air bed, and 2 blankets.  At night it was 27F!!  I was sleeping on the airbed which was directly on the ground, and I froze my tuckus off. Ended up sleeping in my CAR it was so cold.  In the 2 years since then I have gotten smart and comfy.  I now have a 9x16" tent, a propane tent heater, a canopy, 8 foot tables, a 0 degree F sleeping bag, about 8 quilts, rugs for the floor of the tent, a tent toilet so I don't have to use the Privy's at night, and camp stove/cooking stuff.  I went from stuffing it all in the back of my Ford Escape to loading my 4x8 trailer to come to events!
And I don't bring much! LOL

It's not the size of your vehicle.... it's the size of your TRAILER :)
To pull level 2 (up to 3000#) you need at least a Ford Escape.

From: Ronnie H <womrn at hotmail.com>
Date: March 24, 2011 2:28:59 PM CDT
To: <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Gulf Wars Trailers

[at least two trailers were stolen at Gulf Wars in 2011 - Stefan]

My thoughts and opinions follow: 

Many padlock-type locks can be broken through: the lighter ones with bolt cutters, hammers and pry bars; the heavy-duty ones with a very portable and relatively quiet "plumber's torch" (think OA torch in a can about the size of a personal water jug). 

A RL friend with a warehouse-type building uses a creative deterrent that, with a bit of thought, might be adapted to a variety of locks on trailers, boxes, etc.  Thick (thick!) heavy steel angle-iron can be welded together to make a square "tube" (possibly a forged form is available).  The inside needs to be just wide enough to allow a hand to reach inside it (smooth rough edges to prevent skin cuts).  The tube needs to be long enough that bolt-cutter handles don't have room to reach in and still open the jaws around anything, and also long enough that the fire end of a plumber's torch can't heat the locking bar or padlock.  In addition, the tube needs a cut-out, in the middle of one of the flat sides, that is just large enough to let a latch-hasp ring slide into it. 

Close and latch the door.  Slide the latch-hasp ring into the square tube slot.  Inside the tube, run a (sturdy) padlock locking bar through the latch-hasp ring and lock it.  While it is locked, the steel protects the lock.  Also, the steel is butted up against, and thus protects, the entire latch-hasp mechanism on the door and frame, making even prying on that mechanism troublesome (the thick self-built ring on my friend's setup comes all the way through both the steel plates inside and outside his metal door and the steel latch-hasp, and isn't just attached to the outside).  To unlock, reach in with the key (keep a spare or two against possible loss!).  Although this takes a little dexterity, it's manageable. 

I did call this a "deterrent".  There are some useless creeps that like a crime-based challenge.  Obviously, a determined foul spirit with enough unobserved time and resources will find a way to breach any efforts at security.  (The historic retribution of cutting off a thief's hand, although distasteful, has its appeal; as does trussing them and giving their victims tasers.)  The more noise, difficulty and time it takes to accomplish, the greater the deterrent.  

Also, there are tongue hitch and axle locks and wheel "boots".  With what SCAdians spend on garb, equipment, weapons, trailers, etc., any or all of these are sensible investments. 
Ronnie. 			  		 

From: Kazimierz Złowieszczy <kazoflr at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Gulf Wars Trailers
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Date: Thursday, March 24, 2011, 10:31 AM

Agreed. At the very least, we need to suggest that there be a system for
assuring that the car leaving site with the trailer is the appropriate one.

I feel that we need to also look at a way to ensure that trailers can remain
attached and locked to the owner's cars. I am frustrated with the system we
currently use which makes us either separate the two or park offsite. I
understand that space for parking is a problem already. Perhaps we could
have a lot designated for car with attached trailer parking which has
slightly larger drive aisles to allow for the turning movements required for
a car/trailer combo.

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Dana Busenbark <danab-
steppes at earthlink.net wrote:
<<< A suggestion that I have is considering that the gate is always manned, have someone with a clipboard back there, with the license plate on the
trailer and car, so that when someone leaves with a trailer, it can be
verified that the trailer belongs with that car. Or, since we have parking
pass things for the windows, or perhaps make one that says 'Trailer' with
the basic information about the trailer that has to be kept on the dash
board. Or shown when you go to leave with the trailer. >>>

From: Baronman at aol.com
Date: March 24, 2011 6:13:36 PM CDT
To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Gulf Wars Trailers

I always lock mine with a heavy log chain and padlock wrapped in  and 
around the slots on the rims.

In a message dated 3/24/2011 12:14:11 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
arwemakere at gmail.com writes:
<<<
1. Lock  your trailer (hitch lock, door locks)
2. GPS transmitter
3. Remove a  wheel
4. Nail it down.

Short of an armed guard, that's about all one  could do, I think. >>>

From: Richard Threlkeld <rjt at softwareinnovation.com>
Date: March 24, 2011 10:12:12 PM CDT
To: <scarlettmb at sbcglobal.net>, "'Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.'" <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Gulf Wars Trailers

Though it might deter them, the chains are not required to pull the trailer. They are there to save the trailer in case it comes off the ball. I had that happen and was happy to have the chains. However, the people stealing it would probably just take it as it is and cut the lock or chains somewhere else when they have time.

Caelin on Andrede

<<< Another idea is to lock the chains that go from the trailer to the hitch together with a combination or key lock.  That's what I do.  With the locks I use, it would take a while to cut the lock off.  It deters people from trying to steal your trailer.

Maria >>>

From: Miles Grey <Kahn at West-Point.org>
Date: March 27, 2011 4:46:09 PM CDT
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Gulf Wars Trailers

Richard Threlkeld wrote:
<<< I believe the trailer was stolen on the first Saturday as the owner was early-on. There was no security person on the back gate at that time or so I heard. I would suggest we use locks on the tongues and perhaps cables locked to other things. >>>

In addition to the "usual" hitch locks, prehaps a little "overkill" might be in order.  Consider using not only the type of lock that prevents you from opening the latch, but add two other locks as well.  The first would be something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Master-Lock-377DAT-Universal-Trailer/dp/B0000AXRMU
It appears to fill the hitch ball receptacle.

Then add something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Brinks-3020-057-2-Trailer-Wheel-J-Lock/dp/tags-on-product/B000LS5U9M
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200326380_200326380

The second link for the Brinks J-Lock shows how it's used.

If you want to add more visible security, buy a simple, metal wheel chock (painted bright yellow or red) and one of those cut-resistant bicycle cable locks.  Put the chock in place, then use the cable lock to fasten it to the trailer tire.

Even if you choose to skip the latter and just go with the other three, you'll be spending less than $100.  Unless something about your trailer makes it particularly attractive, a thief is likely to decide your trailer isn't worth the effort.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the thieves do a daylight reconnaissance and then return much later - probably after the rear gate is no longer manned - to steal one of the trailers they picked out.  Even if the back gate were more secure, it wouldn't deter theft because the locks that are usually used on gates aren't difficult to defeat, and I doubt we could convince the owner to undertake the expense of installing such a secure gate, even if it's something we want.  I'm not sure we do.  I overheard at least one person speak of day-tripping friends who remained on-site a little later than planned and were able to bypass the gate and leave.

Miles Grey

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris	SCA-transport-msg	Page  of