Title: flirting-msg
Subject: How to flirt courteously and successfully.
Author: Edited by Mark Harris
Last saved by: Mark S. Harris
Keywords: flirting, courtesy, SCA, dance

flirting-msg - 5/4/19

How to flirt courteously and successfully.

NOTE: See also the files: favors-msg, On-Favors-art, p-favors-art, courtly-love-bib, courtly-love-msg, SCA-courtesy-art, courtesy-msg, dance-msg, Love-in-th-MA-art.

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NOTICE -

This file is a collection of various messages having a common theme that I have collected from my reading of the various computer networks. Some messages date back to 1989, some may be as recent as yesterday.

This file is part of a collection of files called Stefan's Florilegium. These files are available on the Internet at: http://www.florilegium.org

I have done a limited amount of editing. Messages having to do with separate topics were sometimes split into different files and sometimes extraneous information was removed. For instance, the message IDs were removed to save space and remove clutter.

The comments made in these messages are not necessarily my viewpoints. I make no claims as to the accuracy of the information given by the individual authors.

Please respect the time and efforts of those who have written these messages. The copyright status of these messages is unclear at this time. If information is published from these messages, please give credit to the originator(s).

Thank you,
    Mark S. Harris                  AKA:  THLord Stefan li Rous
                                          Stefan at florilegium.org
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From: Pat McGregor (1/8/94)
To: Mark Harris
RE>More Men Dancing

Greetings, milord Stefan! Thank you for writing to me. I'm sorry
I have taken a few days to respond: that "other" life keeps interfering!!

you say:
>>Pish Tosh. Become an excellent flirt, and no one will care if you dance
>>(particularly if the rest of your list is up to date!).
> 
>Ah, my gracious lady, would you have any particular advice on becoming
>an excellent flirt?
>
>(For alas, my dancing skills would seem to be on par with your own.)

Oh, dear. I'm sure my mother would say this was something I'd been born with!
However, I've watched Duke Sir Eli instruct one or two young men in this art,
and I might be able to give you a pointer or two:
 
 1) Give every woman you meet the same flirtacious ways you would give
    a particularly young and attractive one. We "old ladies" enjoy flirting
    as much as the young ones do (and sometimes you'll find that older ladies
    are better at it.) Treat every woman you meet, old and young (even the 
    7 year olds!) with courtesy and attention. You don't have to use
    exaggerated courtesy; just being kind and courteous will attract the
    attention of all the ladies around you. 

 2) Make full eye contact. Come right up to the edge of her intimate
    contact zone but not inside it. (If this doesn't make sense, ask. 
    Desmond Morris in his book "the Naked Ape" has a good description 
    of this.) (Be sure, however, that you've brushed your 
    teeth and taken a shower recently. If, of course, you are on the list
    field or scrubbing pots in the kitchen, or involve in some other 
    sweaty and dirty chore, you can say something like, "Forgive me lady, 
    but I fear I am not fit company for as genteel a lady as yourself 
    in my present condition.") When you kiss a lady's hand (a skill 
    all men should know, *I* think!), keep your eyes on hers,
    not on her hand. I'm sure you can find someone to help you practice this.

 3) With some practice, you can make outrageous statements with a straight
    face. I say things like, "My Lord, I can't imagine that someone as 
    charming as yourself has no one to dance with! Perhaps you'd
    like to come out on the floor with me, even tho I fear my skills are
    rather rudimentary." "Do sit next to me here, milord, and every woman
    at the feast will envy me." "You must leave? Alas, I fear my heart will
    break from the loss." "You cook, milord? Tell me of the feast you have
    always wanted to make."

    You can be teasing and flirtacious and still practice that most important
    of companionable skills, listening. Flirts become obnoxious when then
    ignore the old, the young, the less fair, and when they do not really
    *talk* to their companions. One of the tricks is to really have an interest
    in your companion, even in the briefest encounter. Leave her feeling that
    she's brushed the edge of an interesting relationship; as you get more
    practiced at this, you may find that you and a good friend develop an
    outrageous flirtation just for the fun of it.
 
I dare say that this is no help at all, but perhaps it will be a pointer to
you in how to proceed. Do write back if you wish.

In service, I remain,

    siobhan
=========================================================================== 
Siobhan Medhbh O'Roarke
  Sharing her time between Crosston &     		3060 Ridgeline Drive
  Golden Rivers						Rescue, CA 95672
  pat at cygnus.com                                    	(916) 677-6607
  siobhan at lloyd.com                                  	(415) 903-1448 (days)

From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: New Thread - Flirting
Date: 21 Jan 1994 12:52:52 -0500

A friend has recently written to me, asking a how certain gentleman might
"flirt SCA-style without getting his members hewn/battered." My own gentle 
wife, Lady Estrella, has often spoken of gentlemen who seem to take a great
interest in a lady's shoes when dancing. All this seems to say that the gentle
art of enjoying the company of the opposite sex ("flirting" seems too base a
word) languishes in our midst. Perhaps I may be permitted to offer a few
observations on the subject. I do not presume to speak with authority but only
of what I have seen in others. 

Some have confused flirting with gross flattery or sexual advance. It is 
never the first and rarely keeps company with the second. Extravagant words 
may ring untrue, leaving the sincerity of the speaker in doubt. Others will
attempt outright seduction and call it innocent flirting or take the slightest
attention of another as a invitation that was not intended. In the majority, 
gentlemen have been guilty of this failing, leaving many ladies wary of giving
or receiving _any_ attention. C'est dommage! For I have ever enjoyed the
company of beautiful women, even going so far as to marry one. In this, I 
propose there is no infidelity. As my own dear Estrella has told me, one day
she will stop flirting and the next day they will bury her. So it is understood
that nothing inappropriate is meant by all this. 

Flirting has often been called a game, but it is not an overt display. The
gentlemen that I have seen who most enjoy and are most enjoyed in gentle 
company, such as his Grace Sir Eliahu, make no great show. Gentles such as 
this find great enjoyment in the presence of others and make this clear to 
them, not by grand words or rash deeds, but by simply making it clear that
they are enjoying themselves. They seem to radiate charm merely by showing
interest and pleasure in the company.

At revels, many will only speak or dance with those they already know. Such
a pity! For they lose the opportunity to meet people with gentle word and
graceful step. I have made no secret of my enjoyment of dancing and now my
friends ever introduce me to the fairest of ladies wherever I go. A still 
greater treasure may be found by gentles who seek out those who stand by and 
watch without anyone to talk or dance with. There one may find a gentleness 
of heart, more precious that gold, that is the more beautiful for having been
foolishly passed over by those seek only a narrow circle of friends. 

In all this, it seems that I have only said: "Enjoy the gentle company of 
others and show your pleasure to them". Is this really all there is? Does
flirting have a bad reputation in some areas, leading to fears of being
"hewn/battered"? Why is this? 

Beorthwine of Grafham Wood

From: corliss at hal.PHysics.wayne.EDU (David J. Corliss)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Thoughts on kissing hands
Date: 31 Aug 1994 10:56:05 -0400

Greetings! While the learned Doctors of this University continue to discuss
whether I will be needed to teach this Fall, I shall divert myself from my
present distress with pleasant conversation among this noble gathering.

And what topic could be more pleasant than the enjoyment of the graces offered
by fair and gentle ladies? Charles the Clerk writes:

 > It is possible to drop smoothly to one knee and kiss a lady's hand without
 > looking away from her face......

Certainly this so, and I can not understand why any would wish to do otherwise.
Yet, have we not also seen gentlemen who, while dancing, seem to take on an
inordinate appreciation of their shoes? In fearing to perhaps stumble with
their feet, they fall prostrate in matters of the heart.

The kiss upon the hand is but a medium by which gentle courtesy and
appreciation of the grace and beauty of one's company may be conveyed. But
these things are transmitted, not by the kiss, but by the accompanying glance.
Indeed, once this most pleasant of languages is learned, it is possible to
express all that may be said in kissing hands without actual contact. This
makes it possible to greet a lady and "kiss her hand" from the other side of a
room or accross a street. The physical contact is an emphemeral means of
delivering gentle glances, and may be dispensed with when contact is not
possible. Never should contact be found without a softer, truer touch from the
eyes.

Beorthwine of Grafham Wood

From: "Shalimariah" <shalimariah2000 at yahoo.com>
Date: July 31, 2009 6:36:16 PM CDT
To: trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [tri-temp] Veils; was Circlet Size

No of course you wouldn't take it that far... but  believe me when I say I have met a fair number of  those who would... so it's better to just say you  are married in and out of persona. If your significant  others persona doesn't mesh with yours just make up  a story about your personas spouse and leave it at that.   Flirting should be done with those who understand that it's  just flirting. I would recomend making sure all parties  know before hand what the parameters are to avoid any possibility  of misunderstanding. I once flirted with someone who was married  and even said to him I was just flirting because I knew he was  safe and he said that he and his lady had an open relationship  and that flirting was an invitation to more. So I explained I  wasn't in an open relationship and apologized for inadvertantly  giving him the wrong impression. He was gracious about it but  not everyone would be. Just something to think about. I don't flirt very often any more and I make sure I make sure the other  person knows the parameters and level right from the start. And  I only flirt in person with those I trust. Remember, people are  drinking at events so things can get out of hand if one isn't  careful. After that one misunderstanding I got really cautious.  I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or give them the wrong  impression in that reguard when it's easy enough to prevent it.   Just be careful... and always know who you are dealing with... your safety is of the utmost importance. 

  Shalimariah  

--- In trimaris-temp at yahoogroups.com, BELINDA KIMBRO <zilla_thefirst at ...> wrote: 
> > I don't mean to imply that I don't take my wedding vows seriously.  What I do imply here is that we are in fantasy personas, they are NOT real.  They are an escape from our real lives and set in time periods, with as much "reality" as we can give them.  We flesh them out as much as we can and try to "become" that person when we step into that character, so if that character would perhaps never marry perhaps we end up "playing" it that way.  That is not to imply that even in character I would break my vow to my husband, never would I go that far, but like a character in a play, I might flirt as though I were free to (within certain parameters) and only so far as my husband would feel comfortable seeing, whether he were present or not.  My love for him would even cause me to give up the SCA if I needed to, I would hate it, but if it came to a choice, I would choose him, no contest. 
> > EOWYN >  >  >  >  > 

<the end>

Edited by Mark S. Harris	flirting-msg	Page  of